Why is the Bow Skill-Line for PvE completely useless? (Single Target)

Alcast

@Wrobel

enlighten me.

In case you do not know what I am talking about, I basically can only do half the DPS I can do with 2h/DW as a Bow user. Smth needs to change to make this Skill-Line viable again in PvE.

Moglijuana

Alcast wrote: »

@Wrobel

enlighten me.

In case you do not know what I am talking about, I basically can only do half the DPS I can do with 2h/DW as a Bow user. Smth needs to change to make this Skill-Line viable again in PvE.

Is this a secret ploy to make Xeloki even more OP? If so, I'm in! lol

AfkNinja

Alcast wrote: »

@Wrobel

enlighten me.

In case you do not know what I am talking about, I basically can only do half the DPS I can do with 2h/DW as a Bow user. Smth needs to change to make this Skill-Line viable again in PvE.

It's so fun, it's a shame it's such a huge dps loss. I love bow as well and want to go back to Bow/2hand on Stamplar.

Syrani

I absolutely agree. There really needs to be a better stamina ranged option. I only play PVE (vastly prefer ranged DPS), and there are many occasions where melee is not possible, and ranged is required. If magicka builds can do very good ranged single target damage, then stam should have that option as well with the bow. I see no reason why there can't be a viable ranged stamina build.

Soris

Why? Bow has aoe ground dot, cone aoe, single target dot and spike dmg skills. Seems like everything you need.

RoyJade

But with a bow alone, you have nearly half the dps a 2hand or a dual wield along build can do.
Bow already has a good arsenal, but not good damage by itself. All the good attack a bow have in pve is dots who proc master/maelstrom enchantment.

TheM0rganism

The bow line is useless because it's the only skill line in the game that's explicitly all active damage skills with two or three snares or knockbacks to add 'diversity'. It's boring af.

Really should be some kind of Mark or Tag skill that grants buffs/debuffs/mobility, not to mention Arrows should be a consumable item in your inventory.

EsoRecon

I honestly don't care by how much bow drops my dps. I use 2h/bow on my nightblade using 2h as my main dps wep and I like the speed boost the bow gives you. I don't like having to use retreating maneuvers when I use dw/2h and I don't like double take, because it limits my cloak usage in pvp. I love bow and could care less if my dps is lower because of it.

lolo_01b16_ESO

I'm pretty sure dw/bow or 2h/bow is better dps than dw/2h in most situations.

Pure pow builds have multiple issues in pve:
- If you would buff the dots, it will also increase the dps of people who run bow on their off bar and therefore bring bow as main weapon closer to other stamina builds
- If you buff snipe, you'll get issues in pvp with higher damage from gankers
- There are next to no skills outside the bow line that are ranged and scale with stamina

An idea to solve this would be some kind of focus rating, that increases your damage for each arrow you shoot at the same target and stacks multiple times.

Helluin

I really miss a build I was using before 1.6 in PvE, there were hybrid builds, softcaps, etc.
In exp, when Dolmens, quests and VR areas were more a challenge than now, I was also using a double bow build as NB with Impale, Cripple and Swallow Soul/Funnel Health. These skills were really complementary.

It was a nice rotation in group PvE and probably the most fun build in solo.
Then with the split between magicka and stamina it became something unusable.
I would have loved to use that build in Maelstrom Arena.
I hope that, with update 10 and the full review of weapons, bow can become again viable in this way.
Also lore wise Bosmer should get a racial passive skill for bow or ranged attacks, not just the increased experience with bow.

Arrows as consumable is something I always liked as idea because, with a strong bow line, its strenght would be balanced by something consumable.

Syrani

I don't care for the "consumable ammo" concept, as I have experienced it before in WoW. First, In ESO there seems to be inventory storage issues (at least I find inventory storage space to be an issue). Now bow users will be forced to give up precious inventory space just to be able to attack, while people using other weapons won't have to deal with this. Second, it is no fun to run out of ammo in the middle of a fight, and if you do, you can't attack any more. Third, this would force bow users to either buy or craft ammo just to be able to attack, which again, other weapon users won't have to deal with.

Besides, all that isn't necessary for "balance". Magicka builds already have good sustained ranged DPS. The bow should be stamina's answer to that. No reason not to increase it's damage and make it viable. Make skills perform differently in PVP than they do in PVE, and there ya go - good ranged stamina DPS for either one, but not too powerful for one versus the other.

PhatGrimReaper

As far as I know, Bow/Dw is highest DPS achievable by a stam DK, which, unless I'm mistaken, has the highest single target dps apart from OL Sorc?

Drakilian

PhatGrimReaper wrote: »

As far as I know, Bow/Dw is highest DPS achievable by a stam DK, which, unless I'm mistaken, has the highest single target dps apart from OL Sorc?

I thought Magicka DK had best single sustained DPS?

Also, I've tried duel-wield/bow for PvE. I lost about 5k DPS compares to my two-handed/bow for PvE. Might just be because I was way more used to two-handed/bow and therefore better at it but don't really see how you'll be getting more DPS out of duel wield since it has worthless single target attacks (flurry and morphs were terrible for me even with evil hunter and DoTs since the channel is so damn long).

lolo_01b16_ESO

Drakilian wrote: »

PhatGrimReaper wrote: »

As far as I know, Bow/Dw is highest DPS achievable by a stam DK, which, unless I'm mistaken, has the highest single target dps apart from OL Sorc?

I thought Magicka DK had best single sustained DPS?

Also, I've tried duel-wield/bow for PvE. I lost about 5k DPS compares to my two-handed/bow for PvE. Might just be because I was way more used to two-handed/bow and therefore better at it but don't really see how you'll be getting more DPS out of duel wield since it has worthless single target attacks (flurry and morphs were terrible for me even with evil hunter and DoTs since the channel is so damn long).

You need mealstrom weapons to get high dps with dual wield. (Or a class based single target skill that scales with stamina)

PhatGrimReaper

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

Drakilian wrote: »

PhatGrimReaper wrote: »

As far as I know, Bow/Dw is highest DPS achievable by a stam DK, which, unless I'm mistaken, has the highest single target dps apart from OL Sorc?

I thought Magicka DK had best single sustained DPS?

Also, I've tried duel-wield/bow for PvE. I lost about 5k DPS compares to my two-handed/bow for PvE. Might just be because I was way more used to two-handed/bow and therefore better at it but don't really see how you'll be getting more DPS out of duel wield since it has worthless single target attacks (flurry and morphs were terrible for me even with evil hunter and DoTs since the channel is so damn long).

You need mealstrom weapons to get high dps with dual wield.

^this

Valen_Byte

You realize what you are going to get as a "fix" for DPS on bows vs DW is a nerf to DW right?

CP5

Valen_Byte wrote: »

You realize what you are going to get as a "fix" for DPS on bows vs DW is a nerf to DW right?

Let me guess "We feel bows do enough burst damage in pvp and don't want to change that, so we'll increase the duration of volley to give the bow better sustained dps." Then the patch notes will read 20% buff to snipes damage and a passive buff to long shots, and volley will get a negligible duration buff. That's exactly what happened with sorcs, liquid lightning, crystal frags and expert mage a year ago. Least, thats what would happen bow side.

Animal_Mother

The passives really suck for the Bow.

Major Expedition after dodge rolling is the high end passive. Makes sense for a lower end passive, but not the highest one in the list. There are stronger versions of this on armor sets for archers.

I have know idea if the range bonus is working from Long Shots, because I haven't seen a definition of "distant targets."

Hawk Eye has the bonus for vulnerable targets, but only Venom Arrow and Scatter Shot can set this and never on a Boss, minor or otherwise. Making the third highest passive useful only on trash mobs where it isn't even needed. I would mention PVP, but why, practically every target would break out of cc or be immune.

We do get increased critical chance and the obligatory stamina reduction.That's really it for passives.

Bow does get a lot of cc. But it is useless against most bosses. And poison. Got poison covered.

Edit: A quick fix would be to apply Hawk Eye's bonus to all Bow attacks or to low health enemies.

Dissentinel

I use Bow + DW in PvE and 2H + DW in PvP, actually. The bow is a much better PvE weapon than it is for PvP imo. It's too slow for me in PvP, but the DOTs are great for PvE such as Poison Arrow and Volley. These two abilities will give much more DPS than any other with 2H in PvE. The only benefits of using 2H is really its execute. You'll do far more damage with Dual Wield than with Two Handed otherwise though, so I'd only really use 2H as a buff bar.

Now, some of you might be using Two-Handed Weapons in PvE for the Momentum/Rally buff, but it simply isn't that good in most instances. The Major Brutality buff can instead be gained through the use of Weapon Damage potions on either bar, and the heal from Rally or the snare removal from Forward Momentum is worthless in PvE.

If you think bows are bad in PvE, you're just not using them properly. Yes, you're going to get bad DPS if you try and spam snipe on bosses. The best way to use the bow is at melee range, dropping DOTs on enemies while simultaneously tearing into them with your melee weapons.

Elijah_Crow

This should be 8% damage for all mobs, not just players.

If you agree post your thoughts in this thread.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/245026/official-feedback-thread-for-new-item-sets

Miwerton

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

This should be 8% damage for all mobs, not just players.

If you agree post your thoughts in this thread.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/245026/official-feedback-thread-for-new-item-sets

Which would help in pvp, but not pve, and i have said it before different rules of damage in pvp and pve.

Kayrne

Bow/Dw is so strong because of the DW part ...

If you use Bow for main damage and not Dotting the target while spamming another Stamina ability, it really really sucks.

Tarrin

Bow needs single target spamm skill, like "Flurry" in DW, nothing more.

LorDrek

Wait on DB then will be stamina biuilgds boooooooost 100% Wrobel said.

Lava_Croft

Don't speak or ZOS will take the hardest hitting bow ability and buff it by another 12% to 20% because that's how they like to 'balance' things.

Alcast

Valen_Byte wrote: »

You realize what you are going to get as a "fix" for DPS on bows vs DW is a nerf to DW right?

xD

You might be actually right...

I had to add Single Target, AOE wise its fine.

Farorin

Bow is my favourite weapon, and I don't use it anywhere except in large scale battles in PVP on only one of my characters, my squishy stamblade. Even then, I rarely use it, as it is much more effective to just jump down and go dual wield, at least that way I know I will take somebody out.

Miwerton

Alcast wrote: »

Valen_Byte wrote: »

You realize what you are going to get as a "fix" for DPS on bows vs DW is a nerf to DW right?

xD

You might be actually right...

I had to add Single Target, AOE wise its fine.

Well they have nerfed flurry twice for 8% both times (1.6 to btw), wouldnt suprise me if they did it again.

altemriel

what do you mean half the dps with bow, then with 2H?



look at my weapon damage:

battle leveled in cyro, buffed with rally
2H


bow


without battle level, buffed with rally
2H


bow

Alucardo

I don't want to sound like the negative nancy here, but shouldn't DPS on a bow be lower than 2h/dw anyway? I mean, if you could pull the same numbers from range, why would you ever want to go melee again?

Docmandu

Good thing we get 2 skill bars ...