Igneous weapons morph needs a change

Targuris

Boop

Toc de Malsvi

There are no plans to look at this, Maelstrom weapons combined with the poison change for Stam DK's left the inane mob shouting about how OP DK's are...

Forestd16b14_ESO

change molten armaments back to how it was as a DK execute problem solved.

Toc de Malsvi

Proposal: Change Igneous Weapons, using a fully charged heavy attack causes the target to bleed for 40% of the damage caused over 6s. This sticks with the DK DoT theme while not directly buffing burst, the fully charged requirement will keep from directly buffing current stam DK DoT builds, while providing a different option that sticks with a stamina morph type.

Targuris

That would be really cool

Vangy

No one wants or needs Major brut/major sorc from someone else lol. Any serious end game PvE'er is going to run pots, or have some way to self buff themselves....

Even stam Dk's are running molten cos of the DPS boost molten gives. Igneous is just trash morph.... For scrub groups that dont run pots...... Pots bascically have a 100%-ish uptime with alchemy maxed. If u are at end game PvE, you will be running molten regardless of stamina or magicka build....

Targuris

Exactly vangy it just doesn't do anything interesting or beneficial and is a wasted slot atm

Vangy

slumber_sandb16_ESO wrote: »

Igneous Weapons: Charge you and your allies' weapons with volcanic power to gain Major Brutality and Major Sorcery, increasing your Weapon Damage and Spell Damage by 20% for 33 seconds and reduces the time it takes to charge heavy attacks for you by 20%.

Cast Time: Instant
Target: Area
Radius: 28 meters
Duration 33 seconds
Cost: 3094 2094 magicka

Thats a skill I'd use.

Now this is a good example of igneous weapon morph that would actually make me go hmmmm, maybe I can remove major brutality from pot in favor of some other buff.

Ivan04

I'd say make one morph give brutality and the other - sorcery, makes enough sense.

Toc de Malsvi

Vangy wrote: »

slumber_sandb16_ESO wrote: »

Igneous Weapons: Charge you and your allies' weapons with volcanic power to gain Major Brutality and Major Sorcery, increasing your Weapon Damage and Spell Damage by 20% for 33 seconds and reduces the time it takes to charge heavy attacks for you by 20%.

Cast Time: Instant
Target: Area
Radius: 28 meters
Duration 33 seconds
Cost: 3094 2094 magicka

Thats a skill I'd use.

Now this is a good example of igneous weapon morph that would actually make me go hmmmm, maybe I can remove major brutality from pot in favor of some other buff.

Definitely, there are a lot of good options out there that would make it a useful and worthwhile morph. As it stands it is a very unattractive morph.

Banana

Make it look like the Molten armaments morph to. I like the fire as apposed to just the hot look.

IcyDeadPeople

Targuris wrote: »

I think the igneous weapon morph needs heavy attack damage or some other buff for the caster. It staying a group buff only is very boring and limiting. I think it could be better for stam dks.

It's already fantastic for stam dks, and if you have some other way to get major brutality then even the Molten Armaments morph is very good as it buffs your heavy attack damage by 40%!

Targuris

Icy that's the point the morph is useless when most people already run pots for competitive pve it should be a more useful buff

IcyDeadPeople

Targuris wrote: »

Icy that's the point the morph is useless when most people already run pots for competitive pve it should be a more useful buff

Ah, I see. I don't know much about competitive PVE, but in PVP at least it's nice to have the flexibility to get major brutality without 2H.

Targuris

I can agree with that but even then using a pot and using molten is better I think it should still give major brutality but also add something else that benefits the caster. It being only a group buff makes it pretty meh

IcyDeadPeople

Targuris wrote: »

I can agree with that but even then using a pot and using molten is better I think it should still give major brutality but also add something else that benefits the caster. It being only a group buff makes it pretty meh

On my stamina builds I use a lot of tripots, speed + sustained restore health, or invis + speed.

Espica

I play on PS4. I've noticed the buff doesn't activate for me from time to time. I have the morph that gives weapon damage.

Not sure if this is something already known.
According to the few tests I've done it looks like it has a target cap.
With 5 targets and me, it gives me the buff.
With 6 targets and me, it doesn't give me the buff. I'm positive there were only 6 people near, but I could be wrong.

So in a trial it wouldn't work for the caster at all. It gives the Minor buff though.

Vangy

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Targuris wrote: »

I can agree with that but even then using a pot and using molten is better I think it should still give major brutality but also add something else that benefits the caster. It being only a group buff makes it pretty meh

On my stamina builds I use a lot of tripots, speed + sustained restore health, or invis + speed.

For PvP, I really like rally, cos even though its 2h, it comes with an inbuilt heal over time, AND a sizeable heal on cast. And as a stam DK, my magicka pool is kinda reserved for flappy wings and igneous shields or fossilize =X

No room to waste any more magicka on igneous weapons... Its blardy expensive sitting at 3-4k magicka cost... That's a third of my mag pool just for major brutality =(

Targuris

I notice that as well esp. Also rally is far superior the heal is amazing

Autolycus

Targuris wrote: »

I think the igneous weapon morph needs heavy attack damage or some other buff for the caster. It staying a group buff only is very boring and limiting. I think it could be better for stam dks.

Igneous Weapons is not a stamina morph. It's for magicka DKs and not really for pvp. For most builds in pvp (regardless of class), Major Sorcery and Brutality are best taken from potions or Rally. Molten Armaments is the stamina morph, and it's arguably the strongest buff stam DK has for themselves, but again, this is for pve.

I know many, many people who make Igneous Weapons a priority in their trials, just as they would a War Horn or Ele Drain. It is hands-down one of the strongest buffs in the game, allowing for numerous benefits in a single cast that no other class can achieve in such a simplistic and affordable manner.

Vangy

Autolycus wrote: »

Targuris wrote: »

I think the igneous weapon morph needs heavy attack damage or some other buff for the caster. It staying a group buff only is very boring and limiting. I think it could be better for stam dks.

Igneous Weapons is not a stamina morph. It's for magicka DKs and not really for pvp. For most builds in pvp (regardless of class), Major Sorcery and Brutality are best taken from potions or Rally. Molten Armaments is the stamina morph, and it's arguably the strongest buff stam DK has for themselves, but again, this is for pve.

I know many, many people who make Igneous Weapons a priority in their trials, just as they would a War Horn or Ele Drain. It is hands-down one of the strongest buffs in the game, allowing for numerous benefits in a single cast that no other class can achieve in such a simplistic and affordable manner.

Oh most def agree with you. Igneous is NOT a stamina morph. The problem is, heck Its not even a magDK morph... Most of the time its just slotted by tanks. End game magDK dps dont have no slots for igneous either. They run molten for the opening heavy attack..... Or at least that's what I do and have seen done in most of my trials. The only people who slot igneous are the occasional magDK healers or dk tanks. Every single DPS uses molten. Tbh, igneous is pretty much redundant. People just like to use it on tanks/healers just cos they have a free slot. All the DPS are already just chugging pots and will already have major offence buffs active anyway due to pots. Igneous or molten can be slighty re-worked to provide more useful group buffs..

And as far as I understand it ( I could be wrong so pls do correct);
1. Igneous and molten have a cap of 6 targets. A lot of the time, in trials I noticed I dont even get my own buff cos we need at least 2 dks casting this which might not be the case.
2. Igneous and molten overwrite each other. So major brutality can be lost.
3. If everyone relies on you for buffs, and you die, 50% of the group is now going to be left with no major sorc/brut assuming the other DK casting igneous manages to stay alive.

All these combined make igneous in general, a trashy skill to rely on critical DPS buffs for. Id rather just rely on potions and be done with it.

Autolycus

Vangy wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

Targuris wrote: »

I think the igneous weapon morph needs heavy attack damage or some other buff for the caster. It staying a group buff only is very boring and limiting. I think it could be better for stam dks.

Igneous Weapons is not a stamina morph. It's for magicka DKs and not really for pvp. For most builds in pvp (regardless of class), Major Sorcery and Brutality are best taken from potions or Rally. Molten Armaments is the stamina morph, and it's arguably the strongest buff stam DK has for themselves, but again, this is for pve.

I know many, many people who make Igneous Weapons a priority in their trials, just as they would a War Horn or Ele Drain. It is hands-down one of the strongest buffs in the game, allowing for numerous benefits in a single cast that no other class can achieve in such a simplistic and affordable manner.

Oh most def agree with you. Igneous is NOT a stamina morph. The problem is, heck Its not even a magDK morph... Most of the time its just slotted by tanks. End game magDK dps dont have no slots for igneous either. They run molten for the opening heavy attack..... Or at least that's what I do and have seen done in most of my trials. The only people who slot igneous are the occasional magDK healers or dk tanks. Every single DPS uses molten. Tbh, igneous is pretty much redundant. People just like to use it on tanks/healers just cos they have a free slot. All the DPS are already just chugging pots and will already have major offence buffs active anyway due to pots. Igneous or molten can be slighty re-worked to provide more useful group buffs..

And as far as I understand it ( I could be wrong so pls do correct);
1. Igneous and molten have a cap of 6 targets. A lot of the time, in trials I noticed I dont even get my own buff cos we need at least 2 dks casting this which might not be the case.
2. Igneous and molten overwrite each other. So major brutality can be lost.
3. If everyone relies on you for buffs, and you die, 50% of the group is now going to be left with no major sorc/brut assuming the other DK casting igneous manages to stay alive.

All these combined make igneous in general, a trashy skill to rely on critical DPS buffs for. Id rather just rely on potions and be done with it.

I also agree with you, most def fo sho. I'm a proud DK healer since beta

If at least one of my tanks is a DK (which is almost always the case) and runs Igneous as well, I don't think any of the other little nuances are relevant. It's definitely something that others will want to be mindful of.

Edit: It might be relevant if one of us were to die, as you mentioned. In that case I can definitely see the issue. But I think the same is true for anyone running a group buff, i.e. SPC, War Horn, Ele Drain, etc. It's an inherent risk to running, but alone I don't think it justifies changing the skill. The main concern for me is having Sorcery from it, but isn't absolutely necessary (potions are a good option).

Toc de Malsvi

Igneous as a group buff only just popped up in Thieves Guild. It used to be the PVE dps option, they completely trashed it IMHO by changing to a purely group buff utility. When they were initially considering changing it, many of us were asking for a stamina morph and a magicka morph instead of a pve morph and pvp morph.

When ESO released on PC I made a Bosmer DK specifically to take advantage of the 20 weapon damage available through Molten Weapons. The game was still being discovered and there was very little support or direction for how to make builds. Little did I know that after about level 30 that 20 weapon damage would be next to useless and the fire damage would only scale with magicka.

By the time ESO released on console they had changed it to a 40% increase to all heavy attacks including medium weaves and this buff was my bread and butter and what made my DK archer unique in PVE.

Molten Weapons was a DK defining ability, allowing for stronger heavy attacks and changing what kind of builds you could run. Prior to Imperial City, this allowed a unique bow build where you didn't use snipe at all and relied on medium weaves and application of Dots. Imperial City(if I remember correctly) changed the buff to require fully charged heavy attacks

I adapted and begin to focus in PVP more where I was beginning to get enough CP to be able to one shot players from stealth and burst them down outside of stealth if I landed a fully charged heavy with a CC. Now I cling to the edge of being able to still use a bow functionally in PVP while completely giving up any sort of competitiveness as a DK archer in PVE.

ZOS initially stated they didn't want a traditional MMO reliant upon classes filling specific roles, but they wanted to open up the world for unique builds and allow every class to do every role. Yet they continually move certain classes away from certain roles, sure a DK can be dps but not ranged dps. It's not just limited to stamina either, Magicka DK's are limited at range as well.

No not every class should be able to bring the same buffs, in fact each class should have a unique flavor that they bring towards each role. Certain classes though should not be virtually pigeon holed out of performing certain roles. DK's are not the only ones getting screwed for certain roles or setups, look at stamina Sorcs across the board for majority of this games existence. DK's are the ones relevant to this discussion.

Vangy

Autolycus wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

Targuris wrote: »

I think the igneous weapon morph needs heavy attack damage or some other buff for the caster. It staying a group buff only is very boring and limiting. I think it could be better for stam dks.

Igneous Weapons is not a stamina morph. It's for magicka DKs and not really for pvp. For most builds in pvp (regardless of class), Major Sorcery and Brutality are best taken from potions or Rally. Molten Armaments is the stamina morph, and it's arguably the strongest buff stam DK has for themselves, but again, this is for pve.

I know many, many people who make Igneous Weapons a priority in their trials, just as they would a War Horn or Ele Drain. It is hands-down one of the strongest buffs in the game, allowing for numerous benefits in a single cast that no other class can achieve in such a simplistic and affordable manner.

Oh most def agree with you. Igneous is NOT a stamina morph. The problem is, heck Its not even a magDK morph... Most of the time its just slotted by tanks. End game magDK dps dont have no slots for igneous either. They run molten for the opening heavy attack..... Or at least that's what I do and have seen done in most of my trials. The only people who slot igneous are the occasional magDK healers or dk tanks. Every single DPS uses molten. Tbh, igneous is pretty much redundant. People just like to use it on tanks/healers just cos they have a free slot. All the DPS are already just chugging pots and will already have major offence buffs active anyway due to pots. Igneous or molten can be slighty re-worked to provide more useful group buffs..

And as far as I understand it ( I could be wrong so pls do correct);
1. Igneous and molten have a cap of 6 targets. A lot of the time, in trials I noticed I dont even get my own buff cos we need at least 2 dks casting this which might not be the case.
2. Igneous and molten overwrite each other. So major brutality can be lost.
3. If everyone relies on you for buffs, and you die, 50% of the group is now going to be left with no major sorc/brut assuming the other DK casting igneous manages to stay alive.

All these combined make igneous in general, a trashy skill to rely on critical DPS buffs for. Id rather just rely on potions and be done with it.

I also agree with you, most def fo sho. I'm a proud DK healer since beta

If at least one of my tanks is a DK (which is almost always the case) and runs Igneous as well, I don't think any of the other little nuances are relevant. It's definitely something that others will want to be mindful of.

Edit: It might be relevant if one of us were to die, as you mentioned. In that case I can definitely see the issue. But I think the same is true for anyone running a group buff, i.e. SPC, War Horn, Ele Drain, etc. It's an inherent risk to running, but alone I don't think it justifies changing the skill. The main concern for me is having Sorcery from it, but isn't absolutely necessary (potions are a good option).

@Autolycus

So it dosent bother you if igneous and molten overwrite each other? Like I would hate to lose molten buff cos some tank decided to pop igenous that no one in the group even needs...... I kinda like the 40% bonus damage to heavy attacks.... Or does this not happen anymore? Not to mention that each of these morphs provide different major buffs that will overwrite each other. Like if I cast molten after tank casts igneous, molten would remove the major brutality buff from igneous from every1 who gets hit by my molten...

The way I see it these morphs can be easily simplified.

igneous --> major brutality and heavy attack damage
molten --> major sorcery and heavy attack damage.

This way, if a DK casts igneous and someone casts molten, the heavy attack bonus wont stack but the major buffs wont overwrite each other. It loses group utility but it never had much group utility after it got gutted in IC patch anyway.

Autolycus

Vangy wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

Targuris wrote: »

I think the igneous weapon morph needs heavy attack damage or some other buff for the caster. It staying a group buff only is very boring and limiting. I think it could be better for stam dks.

Igneous Weapons is not a stamina morph. It's for magicka DKs and not really for pvp. For most builds in pvp (regardless of class), Major Sorcery and Brutality are best taken from potions or Rally. Molten Armaments is the stamina morph, and it's arguably the strongest buff stam DK has for themselves, but again, this is for pve.

I know many, many people who make Igneous Weapons a priority in their trials, just as they would a War Horn or Ele Drain. It is hands-down one of the strongest buffs in the game, allowing for numerous benefits in a single cast that no other class can achieve in such a simplistic and affordable manner.

Oh most def agree with you. Igneous is NOT a stamina morph. The problem is, heck Its not even a magDK morph... Most of the time its just slotted by tanks. End game magDK dps dont have no slots for igneous either. They run molten for the opening heavy attack..... Or at least that's what I do and have seen done in most of my trials. The only people who slot igneous are the occasional magDK healers or dk tanks. Every single DPS uses molten. Tbh, igneous is pretty much redundant. People just like to use it on tanks/healers just cos they have a free slot. All the DPS are already just chugging pots and will already have major offence buffs active anyway due to pots. Igneous or molten can be slighty re-worked to provide more useful group buffs..

And as far as I understand it ( I could be wrong so pls do correct);
1. Igneous and molten have a cap of 6 targets. A lot of the time, in trials I noticed I dont even get my own buff cos we need at least 2 dks casting this which might not be the case.
2. Igneous and molten overwrite each other. So major brutality can be lost.
3. If everyone relies on you for buffs, and you die, 50% of the group is now going to be left with no major sorc/brut assuming the other DK casting igneous manages to stay alive.

All these combined make igneous in general, a trashy skill to rely on critical DPS buffs for. Id rather just rely on potions and be done with it.

I also agree with you, most def fo sho. I'm a proud DK healer since beta

If at least one of my tanks is a DK (which is almost always the case) and runs Igneous as well, I don't think any of the other little nuances are relevant. It's definitely something that others will want to be mindful of.

Edit: It might be relevant if one of us were to die, as you mentioned. In that case I can definitely see the issue. But I think the same is true for anyone running a group buff, i.e. SPC, War Horn, Ele Drain, etc. It's an inherent risk to running, but alone I don't think it justifies changing the skill. The main concern for me is having Sorcery from it, but isn't absolutely necessary (potions are a good option).

@Autolycus

So it dosent bother you if igneous and molten overwrite each other? Like I would hate to lose molten buff cos some tank decided to pop igenous that no one in the group even needs...... I kinda like the 40% bonus damage to heavy attacks.... Or does this not happen anymore? Not to mention that each of these morphs provide different major buffs that will overwrite each other. Like if I cast molten after tank casts igneous, molten would remove the major brutality buff from igneous from every1 who gets hit by my molten...

The way I see it these morphs can be easily simplified.

igneous --> major brutality and heavy attack damage
molten --> major sorcery and heavy attack damage.

This way, if a DK casts igneous and someone casts molten, the heavy attack bonus wont stack but the major buffs wont overwrite each other. It loses group utility but it never had much group utility after it got gutted in IC patch anyway.

For it to bother me I'd have to confirm that it occurs. I can neither confirm nor deny it, as it has not appeared to be an issue to me thus far (nor for my tanks or other mag DK dps).

If it is, in fact, causing that issue (in that they are overriding each other) and it's stealing the heavy attack damage of my magDK dps then I'd want to see it either fixed or changed. To me the skill loses its appeal entirely (as a healer) if both buffs are not present. As it stands right now, healing is little more than just a support role, providing nothing but buffs. The act of healing itself is done solely on an as-needed basis, or as a means to proc SPC. Obviously there are plenty of circumstances when raid-wide damage occur and when allies other than the tank are targeted by mechanics, but save for these, healing is little more than buff timer mini-games.

As such, it makes sense to offload as much buffing as possible onto the healer, at least until ZOS decides that healing should be more than group buffs. Igneous Weapons is one of those buffs, but it doesn't do much good if it's replacing the DD buffs. They're getting Brutality either way (and minor brutality too), what matters is the 40% heavy attack damage. I'll have to take a closer look at this to be sure it isn't happening to us without realizing it. I'd think we'd have picked up on this by now though, some my core group is heavily involved in testing and theorycrafting, at least two of my guys are very experienced and qualified magicka DKs. At the very least they'd want to know about this if they didn't pick up on it themselves.

Vangy

Autolycus wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

Targuris wrote: »

I think the igneous weapon morph needs heavy attack damage or some other buff for the caster. It staying a group buff only is very boring and limiting. I think it could be better for stam dks.

Igneous Weapons is not a stamina morph. It's for magicka DKs and not really for pvp. For most builds in pvp (regardless of class), Major Sorcery and Brutality are best taken from potions or Rally. Molten Armaments is the stamina morph, and it's arguably the strongest buff stam DK has for themselves, but again, this is for pve.

I know many, many people who make Igneous Weapons a priority in their trials, just as they would a War Horn or Ele Drain. It is hands-down one of the strongest buffs in the game, allowing for numerous benefits in a single cast that no other class can achieve in such a simplistic and affordable manner.

Oh most def agree with you. Igneous is NOT a stamina morph. The problem is, heck Its not even a magDK morph... Most of the time its just slotted by tanks. End game magDK dps dont have no slots for igneous either. They run molten for the opening heavy attack..... Or at least that's what I do and have seen done in most of my trials. The only people who slot igneous are the occasional magDK healers or dk tanks. Every single DPS uses molten. Tbh, igneous is pretty much redundant. People just like to use it on tanks/healers just cos they have a free slot. All the DPS are already just chugging pots and will already have major offence buffs active anyway due to pots. Igneous or molten can be slighty re-worked to provide more useful group buffs..

And as far as I understand it ( I could be wrong so pls do correct);
1. Igneous and molten have a cap of 6 targets. A lot of the time, in trials I noticed I dont even get my own buff cos we need at least 2 dks casting this which might not be the case.
2. Igneous and molten overwrite each other. So major brutality can be lost.
3. If everyone relies on you for buffs, and you die, 50% of the group is now going to be left with no major sorc/brut assuming the other DK casting igneous manages to stay alive.

All these combined make igneous in general, a trashy skill to rely on critical DPS buffs for. Id rather just rely on potions and be done with it.

I also agree with you, most def fo sho. I'm a proud DK healer since beta

If at least one of my tanks is a DK (which is almost always the case) and runs Igneous as well, I don't think any of the other little nuances are relevant. It's definitely something that others will want to be mindful of.

Edit: It might be relevant if one of us were to die, as you mentioned. In that case I can definitely see the issue. But I think the same is true for anyone running a group buff, i.e. SPC, War Horn, Ele Drain, etc. It's an inherent risk to running, but alone I don't think it justifies changing the skill. The main concern for me is having Sorcery from it, but isn't absolutely necessary (potions are a good option).

@Autolycus

So it dosent bother you if igneous and molten overwrite each other? Like I would hate to lose molten buff cos some tank decided to pop igenous that no one in the group even needs...... I kinda like the 40% bonus damage to heavy attacks.... Or does this not happen anymore? Not to mention that each of these morphs provide different major buffs that will overwrite each other. Like if I cast molten after tank casts igneous, molten would remove the major brutality buff from igneous from every1 who gets hit by my molten...

The way I see it these morphs can be easily simplified.

igneous --> major brutality and heavy attack damage
molten --> major sorcery and heavy attack damage.

This way, if a DK casts igneous and someone casts molten, the heavy attack bonus wont stack but the major buffs wont overwrite each other. It loses group utility but it never had much group utility after it got gutted in IC patch anyway.

For it to bother me I'd have to confirm that it occurs. I can neither confirm nor deny it, as it has not appeared to be an issue to me thus far (nor for my tanks or other mag DK dps).

If it is, in fact, causing that issue (in that they are overriding each other) and it's stealing the heavy attack damage of my magDK dps then I'd want to see it either fixed or changed. To me the skill loses its appeal entirely (as a healer) if both buffs are not present. As it stands right now, healing is little more than just a support role, providing nothing but buffs. The act of healing itself is done solely on an as-needed basis, or as a means to proc SPC. Obviously there are plenty of circumstances when raid-wide damage occur and when allies other than the tank are targeted by mechanics, but save for these, healing is little more than buff timer mini-games.

As such, it makes sense to offload as much buffing as possible onto the healer, at least until ZOS decides that healing should be more than group buffs. Igneous Weapons is one of those buffs, but it doesn't do much good if it's replacing the DD buffs. They're getting Brutality either way (and minor brutality too), what matters is the 40% heavy attack damage. I'll have to take a closer look at this to be sure it isn't happening to us without realizing it. I'd think we'd have picked up on this by now though, some my core group is heavily involved in testing and theorycrafting, at least two of my guys are very experienced and qualified magicka DKs. At the very least they'd want to know about this if they didn't pick up on it themselves.

I know it used to! But I pray its been changed. I might consider putting it back onto my bar now as a tank if its fixed!