Igneous weapons morph needs a change

slumber_sandb16_ESO

Targuris wrote: »

I know no-one who will need this group buff or want to change their build because of it. It is just a lackluster morph.

^ This. Pointless morph.

slumber_sandb16_ESO

Another thing I'd like to see is to have its magicka cost reduced quite a bit to make it more usable for stamina builds as a stamina recovery skill. Current cost of it means it can be used 2-4 times in a row before magicka is depleted for a mere 5% stamina recovery each use.

Targuris

Dk skills are pretty expensive in general which kind of sucks.

Targuris

I think the worse issue for skill costs are that dks have the worst sustain overall. I have more trouble keeping resources on my Stam and
magicka Dk than I do on any other class.

slumber_sandb16_ESO

Targuris wrote: »

I think the worse issue for skill costs are that dks have the worst sustain overall. I have more trouble keeping resources on my Stam and
magicka Dk than I do on any other class.

Agreed. Doesnt help that nearly all skills are magicka either.
I think they should reduce the cost of igneous weapons quite drastically to 1500-2000 magicka cost or less or have it give some kind of stamina sustain bonus effect.

Toc de Malsvi

The attack speed idea is interesting, however as a bow user I feel like it would end up being the same as the attack speed trait and not work for heavy attacks at all. I was excited about this morph as well when I skimmed the patch notes but that was because I didn't notice that they had taken away the 40% heavy attack damage part.

This morph uniquely allows me to run double bows, however I can already do so with a Sorc and I would get crit surge as well. Without good movement or invisibility relying on snipe for damage is virtual suicide in a pvp environment outside of defending keeps. Thus there is no real benefit, a 2H or DW setup does not need this morph as they have better options to get Major Brutality and increase their functionality in combat. This really only helps sword and board DK's for bringing additional buff's without having to have different weapons equipped.

Toc de Malsvi

Designing individual class skills around providing one nonessential buff to a large group is just really poor design. You only need one DK to have it slotted to get the buff which is nice but insures that only players who are in large guilds with set groups will run this morph as no one is going to sit around with a buff asking for invites to be told "we already have a DK with that, and we only need one for 24 people". A very very small distinct subset of players with set groups will be able to design group makeup better, but the vast majority of players will either take the Molten Armaments morph or not use the skill at all.

Previously this ability with either morph was a significant factor in many different builds especially stam builds and was the distinct and center role skill for DK burst builds. It was how you set up burst and how you executed players, the current forms are a direct nerf to its performance and role.

Beyond this is the practical examination, no player wants to rely on other players for Major Brutality or Major Sorcery especially in PVP combat. You would constantly have to worry about whether you are in range to receive the buff and the player casting it would constantly be recasting it to keep it up on players who happen to be just out of range of the buff. This really only encourages zerg stacking as that would be the only reliable way to make sure everyone benefited from it.

It would become either zerg stack or make sure you have a way to get the buff yourself from a more functional skill, and most stam builds already currently rely on Rally for its healing aspect so they wont need the buff either way.

Toc de Malsvi

Patch notes for Thief's guild as pertaining to Stam DK's:

2H: Keep doing what you are doing we love WB and WB spam.

DW: Your HA damage was too high and there's not really many of you guys anyways.

Bow: You kill too many people and we really just don't want DK's to use bows.

S+B: We don't really want to buff you guys but here's a little bit of a change to help out.

slumber_sandb16_ESO

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

The attack speed idea is interesting, however as a bow user I feel like it would end up being the same as the attack speed trait and not work for heavy attacks at all. I was excited about this morph as well when I skimmed the patch notes but that was because I didn't notice that they had taken away the 40% heavy attack damage part.

This morph uniquely allows me to run double bows, however I can already do so with a Sorc and I would get crit surge as well. Without good movement or invisibility relying on snipe for damage is virtual suicide in a pvp environment outside of defending keeps. Thus there is no real benefit, a 2H or DW setup does not need this morph as they have better options to get Major Brutality and increase their functionality in combat. This really only helps sword and board DK's for bringing additional buff's without having to have different weapons equipped.

Well if they did change it to give attack speed then it would specifically be for heavy attacks to be a "mirror" skill of molten armaments. Having it only affect light attacks would be completely pointless imo.

slumber_sandb16_ESO

Igneous Weapons: Charge you and your allies' weapons with volcanic power to gain Major Brutality and Major Sorcery, increasing your Weapon Damage and Spell Damage by 20% for 33 seconds and reduces the time it takes to charge heavy attacks for you by 20%.

Cast Time: Instant
Target: Area
Radius: 28 meters
Duration 33 seconds
Cost: 3094 2094 magicka

Thats a skill I'd use.

Targuris

Even with the cost at normal I would love to use that skil.

Targuris

I think it makes there be a choice as well . Overall I hope they address it with some sort of change to be more useful.

Targuris

As far as cost reduction the increase in time from 9.6 makes it atleast worth the cost. Cheaper would really help with sustain for Stam Dk though.

slumber_sandb16_ESO

Targuris wrote: »

I think it makes there be a choice as well . Overall I hope they address it with some sort of change to be more useful.

Not some sort of change. That change. If we got attack speed on igneous weapons I'd start playing it again just for that, makes it unique and interesting with the added benefit of being a bit more berserker style which I've been waiting for.

Targuris

I quit playing my stam Dk a while ago it just got to stale. I have wanted to effectively play dw and bow since I started. This would drastically increase the effectiveness of that build with a tweak to igneous weapons. I hope they pay attention to this thread. It would really make me happy and I'm sure help dks with a lot of different builds. I want to see some variety in this game everyone is a carbon copy . The game is too bland and build variety is non existent in the competitive sector of this game.

slumber_sandb16_ESO

Targuris wrote: »

I quit playing my stam Dk a while ago it just got to stale. I have wanted to effectively play dw and bow since I started. This would drastically increase the effectiveness of that build with a tweak to igneous weapons. I hope they pay attention to this thread. It would really make me happy and I'm sure help dks with a lot of different builds. I want to see some variety in this game everyone is a carbon copy . The game is too bland and build variety is non existent in the competitive sector of this game.

Same here. Resource management on DK is a chore compared to other classes, after I switched to NB I never had resource problems again. Having faster heavy attacks would help lessen that issue. Faster heavy attacks = easier to regain stamina = less issues.

Hopefully they'll take a lot in the thread and notice the ideas about the skill and hopefully do the change.

Targuris

I sure hope so. I doubt this thread will though it seems like most people don't care, but you gotta try at least lol.

slumber_sandb16_ESO

Targuris wrote: »

I sure hope so. I doubt this thread will though it seems like most people don't care, but you gotta try at least lol.

Just have to keep talking about it and having discussions about it and they'll see it eventually. I quoted the skill description in the DK feedback thread as well just in case

Targuris

Cool maybe some other people will be down for some change to it and start some buzz on the topic. I get it's not a priority to a lot of people because the issues of Stam sorc and templar though. I just don't know why the combat is balanced so poorly to the point of obvious glaring difference in power between morphs .

Targuris

I hope someone brings it up on the twitch chat

Toc de Malsvi

slumber_sandb16_ESO wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

The attack speed idea is interesting, however as a bow user I feel like it would end up being the same as the attack speed trait and not work for heavy attacks at all. I was excited about this morph as well when I skimmed the patch notes but that was because I didn't notice that they had taken away the 40% heavy attack damage part.

This morph uniquely allows me to run double bows, however I can already do so with a Sorc and I would get crit surge as well. Without good movement or invisibility relying on snipe for damage is virtual suicide in a pvp environment outside of defending keeps. Thus there is no real benefit, a 2H or DW setup does not need this morph as they have better options to get Major Brutality and increase their functionality in combat. This really only helps sword and board DK's for bringing additional buff's without having to have different weapons equipped.

Well if they did change it to give attack speed then it would specifically be for heavy attacks to be a "mirror" skill of molten armaments. Having it only affect light attacks would be completely pointless imo.

I don't think you understood my post, currently Weighted does not affect Bow heavy attacks and it was as far as I know unintended. I fear that even if they did change it to attack speed that the same issue with bow heavy attacks would persist.

slumber_sandb16_ESO

Targuris wrote: »

Cool maybe some other people will be down for some change to it and start some buzz on the topic. I get it's not a priority to a lot of people because the issues of Stam sorc and templar though. I just don't know why the combat is balanced so poorly to the point of obvious glaring difference in power between morphs .

Lets hope more people jump on the train to get some change to igneous weapons!

I don't think you understood my post, currently Weighted does not affect Bow heavy attacks and it was as far as I know unintended. I fear that even if they did change it to attack speed that the same issue with bow heavy attacks would persist.

Oh, yeah I misunderstood that completely. If they add an attack speed buff to igneous weapons then lets hope they fix the bow attack speed trait at the same time.

slumber_sandb16_ESO

Targuris wrote: »

I hope someone brings it up on the twitch chat

I did. Spammed the question over and over but didnt get an answer to it.

Laggus

It's likely they won't change anything once its in beta unless its straight broken or breaks something else important.

slumber_sandb16_ESO

Laggus wrote: »

It's likely they won't change anything once its in beta unless its straight broken or breaks something else important.

As long as its not live yet there's a chance. A small chance but still a chance.

Joy_Division

The problem with the well-intended group morph that harkens back to the original skill is that a DK casting this skill before 1.6 gave group members a buff they could not get elsewhere and thus was always a help. Right now it every player is easily capable of getting major sorcery/brutality through a skill or potion.

slumber_sandb16_ESO

They should make Igneous weapons a group buff for major brutality and slap a heavy attack speed bonus on it, then molten armaments can be the group buff for major sorcery.

Toc de Malsvi

Got to keep bringing it up as long as the patch is still in PTS and not released live. However I have a sickening feeling that we will not see any changes until Dark Brotherhood at least if at all.

slumber_sandb16_ESO

Hopefully they'll change the skill to benefit stamina users but yeah, I figure the same. Nothing is probably going to happen until Dark Brotherhood but at least we can keep the issue talked about so they can see it for when the time comes for stamina to get attention.

acw37162

LorDrek wrote: »

acw37162 wrote: »

Targuris wrote: »

I think the igneous weapon morph needs heavy attack damage or some other buff for the caster. It staying a group buff only is very boring and limiting. I think it could be better for stam dks.

Arguably the best DPS buff in the game and now applies to your entire group.

A DK can buff an entire group with major and minor brutality, this is arguably the single best buff int he game t the moment,

Curious are you a solo PVP, player?

Your best dps buff is a big crap, honestly destroy stamina dk, decrease dps 15-30%

Man I wish the guy who pays my salary did your math.