Have ESO become pay to win ?

Deheart

This is my opinion,
DLC's are not pay to win, they are simply additionall content to help improve the game and keep players interested.

Anything that gives you % boost to experience/gold/etc... gain or makes your horse faster for real life money, is obviously pay to win.

Now saying that, the fact that I can go and do free to play and get nearly everything ingame for ingame gold except experience boosts and special mounts (that don't effect game-play other than visually) pretty much nullifies the Pay to Win aspect of ESO.

For this game at least, I feel that they have successfully balanced getting profit with fair play.

Lysette

Just think about it -

can you buy the most powerful gear sets in the cash shop and use it (without to have put in effort in game)?
can you buy skill points in the cash shop?
can you buy levels in the cash shop?

if you have to reply with NO to all of these questions it is not p2w.

phillyboy7897

Anyone saying eso is p2w has a poor definition.

If charging For a dlc is pay 2 win then every mmo is pay 2 win. This is not a useful definition because it does not add to our understanding of the object in question.

If u want to use a useless definition such as that then sure eso and every mmo is p2w. Also in this context p2w is not a negative Thing its simply a quality of mmos.

That's not what pay 2 win means to everyone else. That term comes from free to play Korean and other mmos where u can buy the best gear in a cash shop, often this gear cannot be achieved in game or takes 6 months to 1 year to get. It doesnt refer to buying a dlc to play its content and get the gear from it.

If u want to make up your own wierd definition go for it, this isn't a real debate though, this is an argument over diction and a lack of understanding of what p2w means.

The only reason people want to convince u guys that it's not p2w is because what that actually means is very negative. if they used your warped definition it wouldn't be bad, only would mean u need to pay for dlcs to get their content.

"have eso become pay 2 win?" only if u dont know what p2w means

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

This game has been pretty cheap to me since it went b2p. I have only paid for orsinium since the relaunch and I used mainly the free crowns I got from being a sub before the switch. Ive never felt like I needed to buy anything from the crown store. I feel like there is enough xp already I dont bother with scrolls. Cosmetics do not appeal to me so basically 90% of the store items Im not interested in. If there is a way to earn it in game Im not buying it like inventory space etc.

So I really think ESO is a poor example of pay to win.

Gidorick

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

This game has been pretty cheap to me since it went b2p. I have only paid for orsinium since the relaunch and I used mainly the free crowns I got from being a sub before the switch. Ive never felt like I needed to buy anything from the crown store. I feel like there is enough xp already I dont bother with scrolls. Cosmetics do not appeal to me so basically 90% of the store items Im not interested in. If there is a way to earn it in game Im not buying it like inventory space etc.

So I really think ESO is a poor example of pay to win.

But do you PVP? I think PVP is the clincher in this discussion.

kevlarto_ESO

I see nothing in the store that is pay to win, nothing I buy will give me an advantage over any one in the game or pvp, experience potions, people that play more than me will out level me, people that don't forget to feed their horse will have a faster horse than me, seems like a lot of people have a different definition of pay yo win, to me pay to win would be if I could buy top of the line gear and weapons or something that is not in game that gives me huge damage or protection over those that did not purchase it, I have bought one item out of the store a cat mount, and I keep playing and do not feel I am gimped at all because I have not purchased anything else from the store, I have chosen, PLAY to win I guess..:)

exeeter702

phillyboy7897 wrote: »

Anyone saying eso is p2w has a poor definition.

If charging For a dlc is pay 2 win then every mmo is pay 2 win. This is not a useful definition because it does not add to our understanding of the object in question.

If u want to use a useless definition such as that then sure eso and every mmo is p2w. Also in this context p2w is not a negative Thing its simply a quality of mmos.

That's not what pay 2 win means to everyone else. That term comes from free to play Korean and other mmos where u can buy the best gear in a cash shop, often this gear cannot be achieved in game or takes 6 months to 1 year to get. It doesnt refer to buying a dlc to play its content and get the gear from it.

If u want to make up your own wierd definition go for it, this isn't a real debate though, this is an argument over diction and a lack of understanding of what p2w means.

The only reason people want to convince u guys that it's not p2w is because what that actually means is very negative. if they used your warped definition it wouldn't be bad, only would mean u need to pay for dlcs to get their content.

"have eso become pay 2 win?" only if u dont know what p2w means

Yo we need to do that anime thing and put our fingers together and fuse.

I thought I was alone in this world.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Gidorick wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

This game has been pretty cheap to me since it went b2p. I have only paid for orsinium since the relaunch and I used mainly the free crowns I got from being a sub before the switch. Ive never felt like I needed to buy anything from the crown store. I feel like there is enough xp already I dont bother with scrolls. Cosmetics do not appeal to me so basically 90% of the store items Im not interested in. If there is a way to earn it in game Im not buying it like inventory space etc.

So I really think ESO is a poor example of pay to win.

But do you PVP? I think PVP is the clincher in this discussion.

What is in the store that helps with pvp that you cant get in the game? If you mean CP you can spend a couple days doing PVE get a ton of CP. There is a cap so its not unlimited anymore.

exeeter702

Deheart wrote: »

Anything that gives you % boost to experience/gold/etc... gain or makes your horse faster for real life money, is obviously pay to win

No its obviously not.

nimander99

JapanesePlayer wrote: »

this is example of P2W

That actually paying for the convenience of not messing about with your inventory for days.

So it's more like P2aIM or Pay to avoid Inventory Management

Selstad

Examples of "P2W" games would be Planetside 2, Rift and Warframe. These games have items in store that gives the player a major benefit over the others. Per example in Planetside 2, if you're a non-payer, your resource gain is so gimped that the game becomes unplayable. You can't upgrade items, you can't get better weapons and you're getting slaughtered by everyone because they take no damage and you take 2 tons of it if they look your way. Same with Rift, heck if you don't pay for XP potions you won't get enough XP to get the natural transition to the next zone while levelling.

Elder scrolls: Online, Guild wars 2 and The secret world are the best games I've come across in terms of item stores. They're rather well made and they don't give the players and advantage in comparison to what you gain in-game. It's not like you get any advantage purchasing anything from the Crown store, it's cosmetics and XP boosts for the most part.

I think putting things into perspective helps, that is play a few games that's actually P2W, and compare it to The elder scrolls: Online.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

As far as the crown mimic stone is concerned that is for cosmetic appearance only. It doesnt affect the stats at all. So its not pay to win you dont win anything for looking differently. It doesnt make you faster or make you hit harder.

Loves_guars

Hello, potential returning player here. I'm trying to understand where to get the best gear in the game to then go play pvp. (Is the gear still important in Cyrodiil or there is a bolster now?)

Now I'm reading threads like these and I'm a bit worried that I can't get the gear I need to pvp. Can I buy it from guild stores? Can I craft it, does it drop somewhere that I can access without DLCs? Or is it really pay to win?

Thanks in advance.

clayandaudrey_ESO

It is not pay to win. All kinds of ways to get good gear in game without the DLCs. Guild stores crafters or get it yourself with AP in Cyrodiil.

Averya_Teira

Axorn wrote: »

Jaeysa wrote: »

No. Buying an expansion to receive access to its' content is not the same as pay to win. Pay to win is if those weapons were on the crown store and you could purchase them.

Yes its not directly but its pay to win to me

By your logic, every game In the entire universe is pay to win.... If you don't buy any game, people that bought the game are winning ?........

srfrogg23

Axorn wrote: »

Jaeysa wrote: »

No. Buying an expansion to receive access to its' content is not the same as pay to win. Pay to win is if those weapons were on the crown store and you could purchase them.

Yes its not directly but its pay to win to me

You still need to play the content to get that stuff. Just because it is part of an expansion doesn't mean it just gets handed to people, they still have to put forth the effort to obtain it.

Saying that this is pay to win is saying that all playable expansion content for any game is pay to win.

srfrogg23

Wait... What is winning in PvE?

I'm assuming if people are talking about DPS Meters, they're not referring to PvP. You don't really have time to worry about parsing in PvP, so...

So, let's say, even IF it was P2W, aren't the people with that stuff helping the whole group win by getting through the content?

It's still buried under a bunch of playable content so people still have to play the game to get the stuff, so I don't think it qualifies as P2W either way.

Loves_guars

clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »

It is not pay to win. All kinds of ways to get good gear in game without the DLCs. Guild stores crafters or get it yourself with AP in Cyrodiil.

Well I can't go to Cyrodiil with poor gear and no champion points. I once tried it and it went horrible. I'd only be food.
I guess I can't craft it either (or get in dungeons) because I read that I can't access the materials that I need for the highest rating gear. (Which is sad it was one of the things I enjoyed about the game. )

So I guess I can still buy them on the guild stores. Are you sure the best gear is available there to buy?
I'm double asking because sincerely I don't want to start playing the game only to hit the paywall instantly.

LegendaryArcher

Yes, ESO is P2W, at least when it comes to Maelstrom weapons. Most weekly leaderboard spots are taken by people that pay mundus stone cheaters to complete Maelstrom for them. Thus, honest players have no chance to get on the leaderboard and get the weekly reward.

Source: EpicNPC, go look for yourself, can't post the link as it's against the rules (it's a gold selling site). There are hundreds of reviews from "happy buyers" that pay their way to the leaderboard week after week.

Acrolas

cecibergesnrb18_ESO wrote: »

I don't want to start playing the game only to hit the paywall instantly.

Paywall isn't even an issue for you. Looking at your comments, you hate leveling and you have low frame rates and high latency. Until you can buy a fully-ranked character with guaranteed 100 fps and latency under 30, you have nothing to worry about.

I don't even know why you bumped the thread. Best gear or no gear you're still going to have *** performance in Cyrodiil and probably everywhere else.

Mojmir

I have to pay for internet,eso is p2w

Loves_guars

Acrolas wrote: »

cecibergesnrb18_ESO wrote: »

I don't want to start playing the game only to hit the paywall instantly.

Paywall isn't even an issue for you. Looking at your comments, you hate leveling and you have low frame rates and high latency. Until you can buy a fully-ranked character with guaranteed 100 fps and latency under 30, you have nothing to worry about.

I don't even know why you bumped the thread. Best gear or no gear you're still going to have *** performance in Cyrodiil and probably everywhere else.

You are a bit disturbing watching my previous comments, investigating me lol. I fixed my fps problems changing something in the ini file, my 230 ms latency was never a problem in pvp games, that's just a taboo for spoiled americans. I know Cyrodill has horrible lag for anyone though, so I'm expecting them to fix that eventually. Right? So now I was wondering what should I do ingame. To answer you why I'm writing in this post is because I googled something like "end game gear eso F2P" and this came out. Sorry for asking unconfortable questions.
I realized though that this forum is full of fanboys, should probably ask somewhere else but you kinda answered the question though, seems like pay to win indeed.

LegendaryArcher

cecibergesnrb18_ESO wrote: »

I fixed my fps problems changing something in the ini file

@cecibergesnrb18_ESO Sorry for off topic! What did you fix? Maybe it will help others, too.

Loves_guars

LegendaryArcher wrote: »

cecibergesnrb18_ESO wrote: »

I fixed my fps problems changing something in the ini file

@cecibergesnrb18_ESO Sorry for off topic! What did you fix? Maybe it will help others, too.

Following some online advice I changed: SET MIP_LOAD_SKIP_LEVELS "0" to "-3" In the usersettings.ini in: Documents\Elder Scrolls Online\live

Actually I changed more things and I'm not sure what it worked, but the horrible fps drop is gone. Here is my entire ini settings:

SET GamepadPreferredEnabled "0"
SET MouseRawInput "1"
SET MouseSensitivityFirstPerson "0.28999999"
SET MouseSensitivityThirdPerson "0.50000000"
SET MouseSmoothing "0"
SET InvertMouseWheel "1"
SET InvertMouseY "1"
SET InvertMouseX "1"
SET DistantFoliageEnabled "1"
SET PFX_SUPPRESS_DISTANCE_v2 "46.00000000"
SET PFX_GLOBAL_MAXIMUM "1176"
SET MULTI_GPU_CHECK "1"
SET CachedRLREnabled "1"
SET CachedReflectionResolution "6"
SET CachedShadowFiltering "6"
SET ScreenshotFormat.2 "JPG"
SET PregameScreenAdjustEnabled "0"
SET PregameGammaCheckEnabled "0"
SET HardwareCheckEnabled.3 "0"
SET SUB_SAMPLING "2"
SET REFLECTION_QUALITY_v3 "3"
SET PARTICLE_DENSITY "3"
SET HIGH_RESOLUTION_SHADOWS "0"
SET SHADOWS "3"
SET GAMMA_ADJUSTMENT "107"
SET VIEW_DISTANCE "1.17999995"
SET GPUSmoothingFrames "0"
SET MIP_LOAD_SKIP_LEVELS "-3"
SET RAIN_WETNESS "1"
SET LENS_FLARE "1"
SET GOD_RAYS_v2 "1"
SET ANTI_ALIASING_v2 "0"
SET AMBIENT_OCCLUSION "1"
SET COLOR_GRADING_v1 "0"
SET BLOOM "0"
SET DEPTH_OF_FIELD "1"
SET TONE_MAPPING "1"
SET COLOR_CORRECTION "1"
SET SOFT_ALPHA "1"
SET DISTORTION "0"
SET CHARACTER_LIGHTING "1"
SET DIFFUSE_2_MAPS "1"
SET DETAIL_MAPS "1"
SET NORMAL_MAPS "1"
SET SPECULAR_MAPS "1"
SET CLUTTER_2D "1"
SET SIMPLE_SHADERS "0"
SET WATER_FOAM "0"
SET VSYNC_INTERVAL "1"
SET VSYNC "0"
SET MAX_ANISOTROPY "3"
SET PreferMaximizedWindow "0"
SET PreferExclusiveFullscreen "1"
SET FULLSCREEN_v5 "2"
SET FullscreenHeight "900"
SET FullscreenWidth "1440"
SET WindowedHeight "442"
SET WindowedWidth "624"
SET TrialAccountType3SeenVersion "0"
SET TrialAccountType2SeenVersion "0"
SET TrialAccountType1SeenVersion "0"
SET ScrollingCombatTextIncomingPetDoTEnabled "0"
SET ScrollingCombatTextIncomingPetDamageEnabled "0"
SET ScrollingCombatTextIncomingPointGainsEnabled "1"
SET ScrollingCombatTextIncomingStatusEffectsEnabled "1"
SET ScrollingCombatTextIncomingHoTEnabled "1"
SET ScrollingCombatTextIncomingHealingEnabled "1"
SET ScrollingCombatTextIncomingDoTEnabled "1"
SET ScrollingCombatTextIncomingDamageEnabled "1"
SET ScrollingCombatTextIncomingEnabled "1"
SET ScrollingCombatTextOutgoingPetHoTEnabled "0"
SET ScrollingCombatTextOutgoingPetHealingEnabled "0"
SET ScrollingCombatTextOutgoingPetDoTEnabled "0"
SET ScrollingCombatTextOutgoingPetDamageEnabled "0"
SET ScrollingCombatTextOutgoingStatusEffectsEnabled "1"
SET ScrollingCombatTextOutgoingHoTEnabled "1"
SET ScrollingCombatTextOutgoingHealingEnabled "1"
SET ScrollingCombatTextOutgoingDoTEnabled "1"
SET ScrollingCombatTextOutgoingDamageEnabled "1"
SET ScrollingCombatTextOutgoingEnabled "1"
SET ScrollingCombatTextEnabled "0"
SET SiegeCameraChoice "0"
SET IsServerSelected "0"
SET SelectedServer "0"
SET OverscanHeightAdjustment "0"
SET OverscanWidthAdjustment "0"
SET OverscanYOffset "0"
SET OverscanXOffset "0"
SET CharacterSelectForceAllCharacterPreloads "0"
SET PlayerStandInsMaxPerFrame "8"
SET PlayerStandInsEnabled.2 "1"
SET FOVChangesAllowed "1"
SET AgreedToPEGI "1"
SET LuaMemoryLimitMB "64"
SET GamepadSensitivityFirstPerson.2 "0.72000003"
SET GamepadSensitivityThirdPerson.2 "0.85000002"
SET GamepadInvertX "0"
SET GamepadInvertY "0"
SET GamepadVibrationEnabled "1"
SET SOUND_ENABLED "1"
SET FOOTSTEPS_VOLUME "27.00000000"
SET FOOTSTEPS_ENABLED "1"
SET SPEAKER_SETUP "0"
SET VOICE_CHAT_VOLUME "65.00000000"
SET BACKGROUND_AUDIO "0"
SET VO_VOLUME "4.00000000"
SET VO_ENABLED "1"
SET UI_VOLUME "25.00000000"
SET UI_ENABLED "1"
SET AMBIENT_VOLUME "100.00000000"
SET AMBIENT_ENABLED "1"
SET SFX_VOLUME "15.00000000"
SET SFX_ENABLED "1"
SET MUSIC_VOLUME "42.00000000"
SET MUSIC_ENABLED "1"
SET AUDIO_VOLUME "96.00000000"
SET AUDIO_ENABLED "1"
SET TooltipFilter "-1"
SET TooltipNumOptions "2"
SET Language.2 "en"
SET GraphicsDriver.7 "D3D11"
SET PatchDataPath "game:/GameData/"
SET CacheDataPath "machine:/Cache/"
SET ViewedAddOnEULAVersion "5"
SET AcceptedAddOnEULAVersion "5"
SET AcceptedCodeOfConductVersion "1"
SET AcceptedPrivacyPolicyVersion "2"
SET AcceptedTOSVersion "2"
SET AcceptedEULAVersion "3"
SET DirectionalDamageIndictorVisibleInThirdPerson "0"
SET CameraFramingTransitionEnabled "1"
SET SkipPregameVideos "1"
SET HasPlayedPregameVideo "1"
SET RangedKillCamera "0"
SET PlayerKillCamera "1"
SET LastMonsterKillCamera "1"
SET MinFrameTime.2 "0.01000000"
SET ParticlesEnabled "1"
SET RequestedNumJobThreads "0"
SET RequestedNumWorkerThreads "0"
SET FreeUnusedGrannyFileSections.2 "0"
SET IsTrustedMachine "1"
SET RememberAccountName "1"
SET AccountName "Balduriana"
SET LastRealm "NA Megaserver"
SET CustomUIScale "1.10000002"
SET UseCustomUIScale.2 "1"
SET RollDodgeDoubleTapEnabled "0"
SET RollDodgeDoubleTapTimeWindow.2 "220"
SET ClampGroundTargetEnabled "1"
SET MonsterTellsEnabled "1"
SET CameraZoomDistancesSynced "1"
SET SiegeCameraZoomDistance "10.00000000"
SET WeaponsOutCameraZoomDistance "4.00000000"
SET WeaponsSheathedCameraZoomDistance "4.00000000"
SET MaxNetworkWriteBuffer "10485760"
SET MaxNetworkReadBuffer "10485760"

*I do remember disabling Water Foam and SET HIGH_RESOLUTION_SHADOWS too.

willymchilybily

10 pages. Come on it's not hard

Dlc is purchased to make money it needs to be worth purchasing adding new content and gear and in an mmo the new gear has to be better in some way or for certain builds, than the old, for people to want it and to buy the content and not just stick with what they have.

This too me is not pay to win you can't buy the items only the content you still have to earn them. The other items in the crown store that are not vanity items can all be earned in an alternative completely free way. Xp potions instead of scrolls, upgrading mount each day instead of purchasing and so on

I'm surprised at anyone who would consider this game pay to win.

bottleofsyrup

OP:

Inarre

oh no who unearthed this zombie?

Loves_guars

I just wanted to know if I was going to be able to get the best gear without buying DLCs but I guess that the answer is "no".

Maybe you don't want to call it P2W, but I would call it "$60 trial".

Kalante

locking the best content behind a pay wall is pay to win. Zos has to make money somehow. Putting good gear on the DLC is a good way to get people to buy it but putting literally game cha

Deheart wrote: »

This is my opinion,
DLC's are not pay to win, they are simply additionall content to help improve the game and keep players interested.

Anything that gives you % boost to experience/gold/etc... gain or makes your horse faster for real life money, is obviously pay to win.

Now saying that, the fact that I can go and do free to play and get nearly everything ingame for ingame gold except experience boosts and special mounts (that don't effect game-play other than visually) pretty much nullifies the Pay to Win aspect of ESO.

For this game at least, I feel that they have successfully balanced getting profit with fair play.

Getting the DLC's you get a huge advantage economy wise. You can not get vr16 materials unless from the vendors or get the dlc. Who get's to sell all vr16 materials?, oh yeah the guys with the dlc. Also how is getting a faster horse pay to win? lmao. What are you gonna do with a faster horse? are you gonna take on a zerg?

Cadbury

Every video game ever made is pay-to-win.