Vamps are free AP, with new DLC..

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO

Well, zenimax just wants vampires to suck.....

Refuse2GrowUp

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Well, zenimax just wants vampires to suck.....

Vampires are supposed to suck...

...your blood
hahahahahahaha I kill I kill

Kilandros

The problem with Vamp no longer really benefits a playstyle anymore and is now more of a handicap. Elusive Mist doesn't provide CC immunity; Bats are just another PBAoE ult that every class already has; and undeath scaling doesn't become noticeable until you're under 10% health.

That being said, buffing Vamp is tricky lest we return to the early days of everyone running it. That's why Vamp should do something specific, like, for example, focus on adding speed and burst damage. That might make sense for builds lacking burst and speed to run Vamp even though Vamp comes with significant downsides.

Master_Kas

Vampires have been free AP for a while now. Looks like nothing is changing.

Only reason I go vamp these days is because Clouding Swarm synergises so good with nightblade/bosmer passives. Prob not worth it tough.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO

Master_Kas wrote: »

Vampires have been free AP for a while now. Looks like nothing is changing.

Only reason I go vamp these days is because Clouding Swarm synergises so good with nightblade/bosmer passives. Prob not worth it tough.

Yeah, I want to play as a vamp myself, but it's not worth it in either PvP or PvE, you just nerf yourself for passives that don't even begin to weigh up the downsides.

SmalltalkJava

They've been practically free AP for a long time

Farorin

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Sav72 wrote: »

Fine, let it hit hard, but why the hell are vamp skills so dam weak?

Bat swarm and proxy det combo = death

Still think vamp skills are weak?

Bats is the only strong skill that vamps have, the other two are trash.

RAGUNAnoOne

Master_Kas wrote: »

Vampires have been free AP for a while now. Looks like nothing is changing.

Only reason I go vamp these days is because Clouding Swarm synergises so good with nightblade/bosmer passives. Prob not worth it tough.

Clouding swarms invis gets negated now so no synergy

Master_Kas

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

Vampires have been free AP for a while now. Looks like nothing is changing.

Only reason I go vamp these days is because Clouding Swarm synergises so good with nightblade/bosmer passives. Prob not worth it tough.

Yeah, I want to play as a vamp myself, but it's not worth it in either PvP or PvE, you just nerf yourself for passives that don't even begin to weigh up the downsides.

Yes I just cured my vampirism, feels alot better not getting instagibbed by dawnbreaker of smiting and camo hunter/silver shards. :P

RAGUNAnoOne wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

Vampires have been free AP for a while now. Looks like nothing is changing.

Only reason I go vamp these days is because Clouding Swarm synergises so good with nightblade/bosmer passives. Prob not worth it tough.

Clouding swarms invis gets negated now so no synergy

Reason I cured it today, so I get used to playing without my dear swarm

Radburn

With the change to major expedition elusive mist form is even less appealing now. Here's hoping they re-evaluate the skill, and toss it a little boost.

Mashille

@ScruffyWhiskers

There is a Magicka Version of Night's Silence, called 'Shadow Dancer' Max Magikca, Stam Recovery, Spell Damage and ignore movement penalty while sneaking. I use it on my Magicka Vamp NB but it has not been updated to VR 16 yet I don't think.

Lava_Croft

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

radiant mage light gives the stealth bonus while slotted.

the only thing to worry about is dawnbreaker. as a nightblade vampire, i now have to cloak for the full DoT duration.

nb vampires get hit hard with this change.

you wont be able to cloak at all, another nb will mark you locking the skill.

Having Piercing Mark on you will using Clouding Swarm will still reveal you to everybody, so it's basically still the same broken crap.

brtomkin

Zinaroth wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

radiant mage light gives the stealth bonus while slotted.

the only thing to worry about is dawnbreaker. as a nightblade vampire, i now have to cloak for the full DoT duration.

nb vampires get hit hard with this change.

Equip the new Alchemy and Vicious Death sets.
Jump into a raid with preloaded Magicka Detonation and a potion popped for Alchemy proc.
Pop Invisible Batswarm.
Spam Sap Essence.
Profit.

And then die.

Either everything is dead or people are so busy recovering that you can Cloak away.
Incase neither is true, then possibly die, yes.

Shadow Image helps, too.

Thevampirenight

She needs fangs and also more vampire abilities!

ThisOnePosts

When their crown store gets hit with nerfs of people NOT buying vamp (not sure who does, but I'm sure many do and the word will be spread like wild-fire not to use Vamp under such conditions), then they'll fix vamp.

$$$$$ or lack thereof gets their attention more than anything.

I have some characters with vamp, some with ww, some with neither, but vamp has become worse and worse over time that's for certain and WW is okay for the passive. Dark Stalker = best thing about vamp for NBs.

Reevster

keybaud wrote: »

@ScruffyWhiskers

There is a Magicka Version of Night's Silence, called 'Shadow Dancer' Max Magikca, Stam Recovery, Spell Damage and ignore movement penalty while sneaking. I use it on my Magicka Vamp NB but it has not been updated to VR 16 yet I don't think.

Wow nice, I will be making a set for my NB once TG goes live for sure.

Hortator Indoril Nerevar

Sav72 wrote: »

Great job.

People "forget" that both V and WW is a curse... YAWNNNNNN

RazielSR

So then...will my nb dunmer vamp will be better cured?

Thats a whole pile of .....

pema

I felt my ww got suckerpunched with the last patch... I see they turn all the undead into something you dont realy want to be. to bad

Rainingblood

Make camo hunter not work on player characters? Would that be a fix?

Jeezye

Rainingblood wrote: »

Make camo hunter not work on player characters? Would that be a fix?

The problem is not that a specific skill like camo hunter is too strong, but that everyone uses fighter's guild abilities.

The whole fighter's guild lore is build around fighting undead, and following this line they should ony be effectivly used against undead. In the current state however, everyone slots camo and dawnbreaker because they are beast even against non undead players. They have to be changed to do the same dmg to undead like they do right now, but significantly less against non undead targets. This way the spamm will end, but players choosing to hunt undead will still be good.

Jeezye

and ofc fix all bugs related to vampire skills


"elusive" mist... *cough, cough*

AshTal

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Sav72 wrote: »

Fine, let it hit hard, but why the hell are vamp skills so dam weak?

Bat swarm and proxy det combo = death

Still think vamp skills are weak?

My death recap in PvP has 3 skills in it over and over bat swarm, steel tornado and prox det - I can only hope that come these changes people don't feel they must go Vamp to play in PvP.

GreenSoup2HoT

Jeezye wrote: »

Rainingblood wrote: »

Make camo hunter not work on player characters? Would that be a fix?

The problem is not that a specific skill like camo hunter is too strong, but that everyone uses fighter's guild abilities.

The whole fighter's guild lore is build around fighting undead, and following this line they should ony be effectivly used against undead. In the current state however, everyone slots camo and dawnbreaker because they are beast even against non undead players. They have to be changed to do the same dmg to undead like they do right now, but significantly less against non undead targets. This way the spamm will end, but players choosing to hunt undead will still be good.

Finally someone with a brain in this thread.

EVERY SINGLE vampire thread that ask's for buff's get's shunned down by people who only talk about bat swarm. Yes bat swarm can be very effective but half the time vampire's are also at the mercy of 1 shot dawn-breakers and camouflage hunter's.

It's so stupid how the best in slot ultimate to stack weapon damage is a huge counter to one entire skill line but also the best in slot ultimate for magicka burst (meteor is a contender but also a counter to vampire's). Dawnbreaker need's to only do 25% extra damage to pvp target's because this skill line in general imo is not balanced for pvp. Reducing the damage against human target's will not change anything because you can easily go to an off bar ultimate.

People seem to forget you do 9% extra damage against vampire's permanently which is huge. It's not like vampire's get a permanent 10% damage mitigation. We get dark stalker to give us insensitive to never be seen and that's really why anyone's a vampire to begin with.

Mist Form and Drain Essence need help bad. Undeath needs a rework. Stage Timer's and mechanic's also need a rework.

I'm starting to sound like a broken record at this point. Vampire's need help. Not a damage buff but a defense buff. Also skill's that actually are worth taking (not including ult).

Brrrofski

Dropped it on my temp, will probably drop it on my NB.

One thing I also noticed is with the way major expedition will work, most is slower then sprinting. Big reason I dropped it on my temp.

RoamingRiverElk

As far as I understand, undeath rarely helps because people get burst from 20%, even 80% HP completely to 0 normally in PvP. There isn't time for the passive to kick in.

The passive bonuses to damage and the extra damage from dawnbreaker should already be more than a counter to vampires. To then think that one morph of the Meteor ultimate will do flame damage, and given how useful vampirism has been to magicka dks and templars due to the way the ultimate and mistform have helped them defend themselves... And now magicka dks and templars can't reflect meteors anymore... And then there's the camo hunter extra damage proc in this burst meta...

Indeed, vampires need more buffs to their defenses in terms of skills and passives.

There should be no way to reveal someone in Clouding Swarm.

Elusive mist needs to grant immunity to all kinds of roots and it needs to give 40% speed buff.

Jeezye

So overall I guess one could say that vamps are in a bad spot, because

1. They have a lot of counters in the current meta (Fighters Guild, Flame dmg)
2. Their passives are ineffective
3. Their actives, besides Bats, are also not viable and not working as intended.

The first problem doesn't really belong in this thread. Maybe I'll create a new one regarding a change of Fighters Guild dmg priortisation.

The last two should be discussed here. Would be nice to have some constructive suggestions now.



Ill start with my own:

- Devouring Swarm: can stay as it is
- Clouding Swarm: Has to be immune to revealing effects, and has to dodge the delayed incoming dmg when acitvating (similar to cloak)
-> since both those ultimates are pretty strong, a cost increase to 200 (without beeing reduced) would fit. WW have to gain 300 so thats fine

- Drain: needs a complete new overhaul, maybe make it unblockable and increase the dmg for now
- Elusive Mist: make it immune to all CCs and it will be good again
- Poison Mist: noone uses that, but significantly increasing the dmg would maybe help, also a leeching effect on dmg done would fit to make this a more offensive morph

- Savage Feeding: Has no use at all, something like minor regen buffs after feeding would make sense imo
- Supernatural Recovery: fine as it is
- Undead: I dont see why vamps should have dmg mitigation like this, would be better to increase your healing gained on %health missing
- Unnatural Resistance: Has no point too and the feeding system hasn't too. Since vamps are undead and fragile to fire, they culd be immune to bleeding effects (they have no blood so..)
- Dark Stalker: very good and should stay as it is

xarguideb17_ESO

When you cure vampirism, do you get all its skillpoints back?

Autolycus

xarguideb17_ESO wrote: »

When you cure vampirism, do you get all its skillpoints back?

No, respec first, then cure it.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO

xarguideb17_ESO wrote: »

When you cure vampirism, do you get all its skillpoints back?

Not until you do a full respec I think.