Stamina Templar Balancing Thread

caeliusstarbreaker

SadieJoan wrote: »

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

I just wish the applied the major mending stuff and left everything else about the class alone

I feel the same way, I much prefer my templar on live than on pts... Nothing that needed fixing got fixed, just some weird stuff that ruins life got changed, so if no changes that were needed are going to be made, then I would actually much rather she just stays exactly how she is right now please

Literally the only thing stamplar needed was access to it's restoring light healing passives, and maybe a decent magicka dump. Offensively we were fine, well at least I liked where I was at, as there arguably could have been a little fine tuning... Very little. This jabs conundrum is, in my opinion and given my play style, a nerf masquerading as a buff, however I'll allow it to try to change my mind or grow on me..... Honestly I think it's just another reason to go magicka over stamina.

Elara_Northwind

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

SadieJoan wrote: »

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

I just wish the applied the major mending stuff and left everything else about the class alone

I feel the same way, I much prefer my templar on live than on pts... Nothing that needed fixing got fixed, just some weird stuff that ruins life got changed, so if no changes that were needed are going to be made, then I would actually much rather she just stays exactly how she is right now please

Literally the only thing stamplar needed was access to it's restoring light healing passives, and maybe a decent magicka dump. Offensively we were fine, well at least I liked where I was at, as there arguably could have been a little fine tuning... Very little. This jabs conundrum is, in my opinion and given my play style, a nerf masquerading as a buff, however I'll allow it to try to change my mind or grow on me..... Honestly I think it's just another reason to go magicka over stamina.

I feel for you so much as stamina... I have a stam templar lowbie which I haven't played for a while because it was just so damn hard! As a templar, you should be able to heal, whether you are magicka OR stamina, its our classes main defense. Its not the easiest thing in the world to play as a magicka templar, but you guys really do have it tough I am a melee magicka templar so am also pretty worried about the puncturing strikes (and its morphs) changes too I truly hope they are looked at before it goes live, but am doubtful that this will happen...

Animal_Mother

I find one of the items holding back my stamplar is our broken closer. I have no preference whether it is Stamina or Magicka based, I just want it to work. If it worked, I could actually use the DW tree.

I wish our Backlash options were reversed. With mobility being so important and Stamplars having no way to escape once we charge in, Purifing Light as a stamina ability, could give a little appreciated heal while on the offensive.

As always, we need a hard area cc. I've been relying on Bombard, but it's directional and requires giving up a little defense to switch to bow, when I need defense most.

Speaking of stealing from offense, Heals. We are catching up with Templars finally receiving some of the healing synergy we had lost in the first year of the game. We are still going to be at a disadvantage while all class heals scale off of Magicka rather than highest stat.

Sun Shield should also scale to highest stat.

It's sad that as a Stamplar (well Bowplar), I only have two class abilities slotted; Jabs on both my Bow and 1H and PotL on my 1H. Sometimes, I throw in Repentance, but it's not a staple. Even with the changes to Focused Healing, I don't know if I would actually take advantage of it; the skills that allow FH, just don't scale well enough for me.

There was once a time in 1.5, when my bow bar contained 4 class skills for PvP, including Unstable Core, Blinding Flashes, BoL and Solar Prison.

caeliusstarbreaker

Honestly I was fine I was able to get my vigor to crit up to 2.8k a tick... And the dmg was there but well see how this next patch goes.

BEZDNA

Nice post, i see a lot of work behind it.

There are so many things in your post I total agree with - well done, good suggestions. i hope zenimax will listen to them. However there are some ideas i do not agree with:

1. Snare on Puncturing Strikes should be on final hit (not on first as you suggest), otherwise you leave no room to counter that skill.
2. 0,5 sec CD on burning light should also stay.
3. I also like that Major Savagery buff from Biting Jabs and don't want it be changed. Vigor and Rally are doing their job well.
4. I see more reasonable to do Vampires Bane a stamina morph and Reflective Light stay as a magic morph.
5. I like how Eclipse and Total Dark work now and don't want them to be changed in self buff. However change to Unstable Core doesn't make scene to me, at list i can't think of a situation where that could be useful, should be reworked.
6. Rune Focus - totally agree that Major Resolve and Major Ward buffs should stay on a templar for entire duration, but additional effects should stay as they are right now on pts. These is a powerfully tool to hold your ground. Making it work for 20 sec makes these skill ridiculously op and imbalanced.

Zinaroth wrote: »

We are now the only class without a mobility tool or a speed buff, since you just granted DKs Major Expidition on a Chain morph.

OMG, i still can't stop laughing! 2 seconds after using chainpull... Hahaha, you can't be serious. Would you be satisfied in getting 2 sec speed buff after Focused Charge? I'm definitely not, better implement speedbuff in Radiant Aura.

Zinaroth

BEZDNA wrote: »

Nice post, i see a lot of work behind it.

There are so many things in your post I total agree with - well done, good suggestions. i hope zenimax will listen to them. However there are some ideas i do not agree with:

1. Snare on Puncturing Strikes should be on final hit (not on first as you suggest), otherwise you leave no room to counter that skill.
2. 0,5 sec CD on burning light should also stay.
3. I also like that Major Savagery buff from Biting Jabs and don't want it be changed. Vigor and Rally are doing their job well.
4. I see more reasonable to do Vampires Bane a stamina morph and Reflective Light stay as a magic morph.
5. I like how Eclipse and Total Dark work now and don't want them to be changed in self buff. However change to Unstable Core doesn't make scene to me, at list i can't think of a situation where that could be useful, should be reworked.
6. Rune Focus - totally agree that Major Resolve and Major Ward buffs should stay on a templar for entire duration, but additional effects should stay as they are right now on pts. These is a powerfully tool to hold your ground. Making it work for 20 sec makes these skill ridiculously op and imbalanced.

Thank you, took me almost four hours from concept to finished post.

Regarding your points:

1. Valid point.
2. I disagree, and if it does it should state it in the tooltip for transparency.
3. I was talking about adding the passive healing in addition to the Major Savagery.
4. Sure, or just make Reflective Light have both a stamina and magicka morph and get rid of Vampire's Bane.
5. Totally disagree here, anyone will just CC break it if they can, and if they can't they were dead anyway.
6. Glad you agree, I don't think giving the Minor Protection during those 20 second aswell would be OP though. Sorcerers get Major Expidition and pulsing AoE with their armor buff and DKs get a minor reflect and either an AoE or a shield with their armor buff, PLUS +14% healing taken from the class passive Burning Heart. NBs get theirs passively from using their best damage ability. I don't think Templars having a 20 second armor buff that gives both Major Resolve and Major Ward along with Minor Protection would be OP, but Major Mending probably shouldn't be part of the deal too. We have Purifying Ritual right now for that anyway, the area is of decent size. If they change the armor buff to 20 seconds and a true self buff (which I doubt they will) then I don't see why Minor Protection shouldn't follow, otherwise it would just be a bad version of what the other classes have. That would ofcource however follow the general theme of the Templar's abilities. Right now a Stamina Templar doesn't even bother with Rune Focus in PvP, they just slot Purifying Ritual and forego the defense because there's too much micro managing with recasting it or trying to stay inside the circle.

BEZDNA wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

We are now the only class without a mobility tool or a speed buff, since you just granted DKs Major Expidition on a Chain morph.

OMG, i still can't stop laughing! 2 seconds after using chainpull... Hahaha, you can't be serious. Would you be satisfied in getting 2 sec speed buff after Focused Charge? I'm definitely not, better implement speedbuff in Radiant Aura.

Yeah the DK speed buff will be nice for sticking on a target, but much less for escaping, I know it won't be THAT good. Still doesn't defeat my point though. Once again every other class has access to something the Templar does not. It's just a reoccuring theme that I wanted to point out. Never asked for Templars to get access to either of these, but they should be compensated in other ways then. That was my only point. Someone suggested a permanent and passive 10% increase in movement speed from a class passive. I think that might be a bit too strong, but on the other hand, there's no fear of making Templars too strong right now anyway.

Idinuse

Zinaroth wrote: »

Disclaimer: This thread is aimed at Zenimax Online Studios and the developers in charge of class balancing. It will be focusing on the templar class with priority on stamina orientated builds, as those are currently suffering a lot. The thread will be very long, so please take your time reading it before responding to anything. I do not mean to neglect magicka orientated builds, but with the recent patch notes they seem like they will do just fine, I am however worried about how there wasn't a single change aimed specifically at stamina templars. I will try to adress this without hurting magicka templars. The thread will consist of three segments. In the first segment I will tag all the knowledgeable EU players I know play or know about staminat emplars to have them chime in, since this post was very much a collaberation where I also asked some of them for advice. I will also tag ZOS employees, and I will lay out my idea of what stamina templars should be capable of. In the second segment I will go through the patch note changes for templars one by one and comment on them. In the third segment I will summarize the good, the bad, and what wasn't touched on in the patch notes. In the fourth and last segment I will make my conclusion of what needs to happen further with the templar class in order for stamina templars to truely be good combatants on the play field in both PvE and PvP. Thank you for taking your time to read this thread and I hope if you're a fellow stamina player you will chime in and that if you're a ZOS employee you will atleast aknowledge the existance of this thread. Happy reading!

This a call to arms my fellow stamina templar brethren, now is our chance to sieze the opportunity and tell Zenimax what needs to happen with the stamina templars, and that it needs to happen before PTS is over! @Alcast @Mumyo @Husan @Morathras @Soris @BlackEar @Springt-Über-Zwerge @Joy_Division @AfkNinja @Cinbri @Jura23 @dodgehopper_ESO @SemiD4rkness @BalticBlues @AOECAPS @Essiaga

I also hope you developers and community managers chime in or at the very least aknowledge this thread, depending on who is the appropriate person for this entire thing! @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_KaiSchober @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_BrianWheeler @Wrobel

The Stamina Templar - an ideology
For me I have always imagined my Templar as a paladin or crusader, a heavy front line warrior able to stand his ground and smite his enemies with holy light and fire while providing buffs to his fellow team mates. A holy variation of the DK more focused on buffing himself and his allies where the DK is more focusing on debuffing his enemies. The templar should not be a hit and run class, it should be a class that can somewhat stand his ground, while still being mobile, like the DK. He fights and dies with his sword in the hand. In order to be able to achieve this, there are several things that needs to happen in this game, with the templar balancing, and this is what I will try to adress in the next part, hope you're with me this far.

Before the PTS patch notes hit it was appearent that Templars, both magicka and stamina, have been suffering from DPS in competetive PvE that couldn't match with the other classes. This might not be very appearent in a normal dungeon run, but for us hardcore trialists, it is.
Templars have been suffering under bad passives, especially when it comes to rescource management, an in detail comparison will appear later in this thread.
Templars have suffered from bad survivability outside spamming heals, something that wasn't even a thing for Stamina Templars. The stamina version of the class that was supposed to be THE healing class had the worst self healing in the game, this was a major issue.
Templars had a lot of bugs, especially for Stamina Templars the bug that made Burning Light not proc on shields has made PvP very tough for us against Magicka NBs and Magicka Sorc.
We have suffered from mobility issues, but only as a side effect of not being able to stand our ground.
Furthermore stamina templars have suffered from a bad option of class abilities; typically in PvP a Stamplar would use Biting Jabs, Purifying Ritual and Restoring Focus. In PvE Repentance would be worth slotting aswell because there were a lot of dead bodies, but not in PvP. Then there's Piercing Javeling, which until now has been really questionable in its usage since Biting Jabs would hand out free CC immunity aswell.
Dawns Wrath was a completely useless skill tree with the exception for the 4% reduced cost passive, likewise the Restoring Light tree had three abilities worth using but none of the passives were worth slotting.
Furthermore none of the ultimates were really worth using. Nova had its uses as a zerg busting ultimate, but that was about it, you'd be better off with Meteor in all aspects of PvE. The Rite of Passage healing ultimate is completely and utterly useless, sure it works as a panic button but so does Breath of Life, only people lacking knowledge would use this in any content, and then there's the Radial Sweep ulti whos damage and range is so bad that it is rendered useless aswell, often replaced with Dawnbreaker.
So there we have it; stamina templars were in disarray, benefiting from 3-4 class abilities and the same amount of passives, with none of their ultis working, no proper movement, CC, or utility, nothing that was worth spending magicka on, with sub-par DPS in PvE and bad rescource management and survival, and the worst self healing in the game and an armor buff that lasted only 8 seconds since noone could stand still in a rune in PvP with a 5 m diameter.

Before the patch notes hit I made a over over in the General Section of the forums called "What will happen to Templars with the patch? Place your bets!":
forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/244923/what-will-happen-to-templars-with-the-patch-place-your-bets/p1
This thread clearly shows the frustration the templar community and especially the stamina templar community was in.
But while the verdict on the patch notes have been hard over there I don't agree that it was all bad, there were a lot of good changes aswell, so let's get into the patch notes...

Thieves' Guild Templar Patch Notes

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Blazing Spear (Spear Shards morph): This morph now displays a hostile red telegraph if it is cast from enemy Templars.

Good for the enemy I guess. I would have preferred to see a change to this ability that would also benefit the Templar himself. Currently this ability has two purposes; spam it on several mobs as a means to do AoE damage as a magicka templar or to feed stamina to your group members. This ability currently holds no position in the arsenal of a stamina templar unless you play along another stamina player, in which case it will most likely be foregone for something else anyway. Have you considered granting the stamina return to both the guy who uses the synergy and the templar himself if he is stood within range of the synergy activation when it gets used? You would still need someone to synergise and it would benefit the templar himself aswell. This could be deemed overpowered but then the stamina return could be scaled down. Just trying to advocate a buff here that would move templars more towards sustainability for himself aswell rather than just being a buff and heal bot.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Focused Charge: This ability and its morphs are now more responsive, and will no longer cause you to become stuck in the charge animation.

I have not tested this myself but according to what I have seen and read this still has a major global cooldown, doesn't really touch stamina templars much so I won't go into too much detail with it here.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Piercing Javelin: Increased the range of this ability and its morphs to 28 meters from 20 meters.

Alright, good change in accordance with the ranged buff the other class CCs got. Still, as a stamina templar this is the only hard CC we get inside the class trees, whereas DKs have a really good arrange of CC abilities available, same with NBs and Sorcs. But a good change nevertheless, would however love to have some kind of AoE CC given to us, doesn't have to be hard CC either.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Puncturing Strikes: This ability and its morphs no longer knockback and apply crowd control immunity to the nearest enemy on the final hit; instead, they now snare that enemy by 70% for two seconds.

This has been a year under way and it is a very nice chance, I very much applaud this. We will now be able to hit more with this ability and make it viable in PvP again. I would very much have loved to see the snare proc on the first hit instead of the last hit though. I am surprised to see we didn't get the damage bonus back to 170% again as it was before 1.6. Currently it's at 140% and a main damage ability of both stamina and magicka templars in PvE. Templars are struggling a bit with the DPS as mentioned earlier so I think raising the damage on main target to 170% additional damage would be fair. This would amount to around a 10% increase of damage with this ability, so it is not like it would be a major buff in PvP either, but would help us catch up a bit in PvE.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Radial Sweep: Increased the radius of this ability and its morphs to 6 meters from 5 meters.

This is not enough. It will still be impossible to hit with, the range needs to be 8 or 9 meters if not more. Furthermore, the damage on this ability sucks! I know it has a defensive buff morph aswell, but it is simply not enough. You need to go tweak some more numbers on this one, it needs to be a viable alternative to Flawless Dawnbreaker, if not better since it is a class ultimate. It needs to do the same amount of damage or more, and please, make it physical damage.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Radiant Ward (Sun Shield morph): Increased the shield strength bonus from this morph’s shield to 6% per enemy hit from 5%.

Once again another lackluster change, what is this going to achieve? It will still be useless in PvP and in PvE it will be nothing more but an unwanted gimmicky survivability skill when fighting many opponents, in which case you're still better off healing yourself or killing stuff fast. You need to go back to the drawing board... Maybe it is a bad idea have Battle Fatigue affect abilities that scale off % health, just like Dragon Blood for the DK? This will simply not cut it.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Backlash: Increased the maximum damage limit for this ability and its morphs by 25%, but decreased their damage stored amount by 66%. In addition, this ability and its morphs can no longer be reflected.

So it stores damage slower but hits harder in the end or what? Not sure what this means, but I don't see anything in here that makes this ability worth using or even slotting again. Not for burst in PvP and not for DPS in PvE. Back to the drawing board. Maybe replace this ability with an AoE CC? Bring back a changed version of Blinding Flashes? Templars needs this a lot.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Eclipse:
[*]This ability and the Total Dark morph can now reflect ranged physical projectiles back to the enemy, in addition to spell projectiles.
[*]Revised the tooltips for this ability and the Total Dark morph to indicate that the area damage effect is separate from the self-reflect effect, and can be applied to a CC-immune target.
[*]Fixed an issue where this ability and the Total Dark morph could reflect snares from ground-placed ticking abilities, such as Caltrops or Ash Cloud, and cause you to move at extremely high speeds.

This ability will be just as useless before aslong as it can be CC broken, even if the damage still happens. It needs to get the DK treathment; meaning it needs to be a self buff instead of something applied to target. Now I am totally onboard with class diversity, and not giving all classes the same tools. But part of the reason DKs can survive a lot in PvP and stand their ground is because of their Dragon Scales reflect; giving templars something simular would not be a bad idea.
I propose changing this to a self buff that absorbs 4 projectiles instead of reflecting them like the DK. Upon absorbing the fourth projectile the templar will explode in a holy nova in a 10m radius dealing damage to targets within range in accordance to 30% of the projectile damage absorbed and healing friendlies for the same amount. This would go great in line with what the templar is and if it is a bit too strong or weak the number could be tweaked. Anyway this is just a suggestion I am sure someone else could brain storm something cooler, but it is tools like this that we stamina templars need. Something worth spending magicka on over and over again and that helps us survive outnumbered fights.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Enduring Rays:
[*]This passive ability now only increases the duration of the Sun Fire, Eclipse, and Nova abilities.
[*]Increased this passive ability’s bonus to 15/30% more duration at Ranks I/II from 10/20%.

So what you're basically saying is that Radiant Oppression/Radiant Glory are just afterthoughts and instead of changing this passive into something benefitting all abilities you're just removing it? How about making it reduce the channel time but remaining the same amount of ticks? Also; in an effort to make stamina templars more viable how about we get a stamina morph of this? Would certainly give us more tools at our disposal.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Nova:
[*]Reduced the effects and visual light intensity for this ability and its morphs.
[*]Increased the damage from the Supernova and Gravity Crush synergies by 16%.
[*]Increased the activation range for the Supernova and Gravity Crush synergies to 3.5 meters from 2.5 meters.

These are all good changes but I don't see them making Nova worth more than it already is. We will still require another target for the full potential of this ability (an recurring theme throughout the templar class; relying on other people to reach full potential and bad synergy with yourself), and I don't see it takeing over Meteor's position. So it remains a zerg buster ability, fair enough.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Radiant Destruction: Fixed an issue where the execute bonus damage from this ability would not apply if multiple Templars were channeling these abilities on the same target.

Good good, as mentioned above, a stamina morph would be nice.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Solar Flare: Increased the damage for this ability and the Dark Flare morph by 12%. The damage of the Solar Barrage morph remains unchanged.

Why buff Dark Flare but not change Solar Barrage? Solar Barrage is so bad it was never used, atleast some people used Dark Flare for the healing debuff. You need to rethink this change and most like buff Solar Barrage or make it into something else so it is worth using. Now Dark Flare will be more viable for damage, cool, but Solar Barrage will still remain unused for everyone.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Unstable Core (Eclipse morph): Increased the area damage when the effect ends by 50% and can be placed on an unlimited amount of targets, but it no longer reflects single target spells back to the enemy.

So it is basically a timed bomb when placed on the enemy? Interesting. Still currently on my DPS geared magicka templar it does 4500 damage, with this patch it will be 6750 damage, and then cut that in half for PvP. It isn't a lot of damage. I think you could've easily given it a 100% increase in damage. Also as I said above, this entire skills needs rework to buff yourself instead. But one morph could be a self reflect/absorb and the other this one, when you increase its damage.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Vampire’s Bane (Sun Fire morph): Increased the damage over time duration for this morph to 9 seconds from 7 seconds.

Interesting, might make it worth using in a DPS rotation. Doubt it, but we will see. Would you consider making the other morph stamina based? Gives stamina templars a decent class based DoT effect.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Breath of Life (Rushed Ceremony morph): This morph now only fires one additional secondary heal, previously two heals.

For many people this is a big no-go but I actually think it is a good change. I have long advocated for tuning down templars as healers to make room for other classes as healers, and in return boosting our self-sustainability. I see what you're trying to achieve here and I agree with the sentiment. But we're not quite there for stamina templars atleast, eventhough this change didn't affects us at all.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Cleansing Ritual:
[*]Increased the healing from the Purify synergy from this ability and its morphs by 12%.
[*]Fixed an issue where this ability and its morphs could be used to cleanse projectiles that were mid-flight. It now matches the behavior of the Purge ability.

Too bad I can't purify incoming Meteors anymore but I understand the change.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Focused Healing: This passive ability now grants you the Major Mending buff while standing in your own Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus, or Rite of Passage area effects and for up to 2/4 seconds after leaving them at Ranks I/II, instead of granting you 15/30% more healing to allies standing in your own Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus, or Rite of Passage.

Finally! It never made much sense that Stamina DKs had more self healing through their own Major Mending buff, when templars were supposed to be the class with the best self healing available. Very good change! One thing though; I think it should give you Major Mending aslong as you're AFFECTED by Cleansing Ritual or Rune Focus, reason for the different wording will appear below under the Focus changes.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Healing Ritual: Reduced the cast time for this ability and its morphs by 25%, and reduced the healing done by 25%.

This ability will still be useless. We don't really need this in our arsenal anyway, Healing Springs from Restoration Staff will always be a better option. Back to the drawing board, maybe give us some proper self buff or AoE CC tool instead?

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Radiant Aura (Restoring Aura morph): This morph now grants you and your allies the Major Intellect buff upon activation, as well as having an increased radius as a morph effect.

We still get Major Intellect from potions aswell and seeing as this won't stack it will still be just as useless as before. Back to the drawing board!

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Rite of Passage: In order to prevent visual issues or issues where the channel would end prematurely, this ability and its morphs can no longer be cast in mid-air.

Yeah, like... Are you kidding me? Most useless ultimate in the game and this is all you had for it? Only unknowledgeable players will ever slot this ultimate. It needs to change! I understand you want it to be some kind of healing or survivability, fair enough. How about changing it to healing yourself and targets around you and granting you all some rescources back, including yourself? This way it could become a sustain ultimate. Or it could be like a protective bubble making you immunte to all harmful effects for 5 seconds and granting rescources back? Something else than just a healing panic button. Breath of Life spam is currently more effective than this.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Restoring Focus (Rune Focus morph): This morph now grants you the Minor Protection buff, in addition to granting the Minor Vitality buff as a morph effect.
[*]Rune Focus: Revised the tooltips for this ability and its morphs to indicate that the Major Ward and Major Resolve buffs will stick to you for 8 seconds after leaving the rune, while the morph effects of Channeled Focus and Restoring Focus require you to remain in the rune at all times.

Added bonus is always nice, not sure it was that needed but we will take it!
Now here comes the biggest problem; mobility.
Rune Focus is now a really really nice self buff; we get Major Ward, Major Resolve, Major Mending and Minor Protection along with either Minor Mending or magicka return depending on the morph.
One big issue though; we have to stay within the run!
Now this is not a problem in PvE, but in PvP we have to move around! We are now the only class without a mobility tool or a speed buff, since you just granted DKs Major Expidition on a Chain morph. That is okay, but you cannot force us to, on top of that, stand still in a rune. Sure the buff sticks for 8 seconds when we leave and the Major Mending for 4 seconds, but this is not good enough! Noone uses this in their main bar, that means we need to weapon swap every 5-6 seconds to reapply it or move back into the rune to reapply the effect. I understand you don't want the templars to be a class that is all over the place like NBs and Sorc, but you're forcing us to stay put or be very stationary! NBs get their armor buffs passively when using their main damage ability, DKs get a 20 second duration with secondary effects, and so do Sorcs!
For the love of everything Tamrielic ZOS, allow this self buff to stick ON us for 20 seconds aswell along with the self buffs that follow with them. It is a much needed change and compared to all the cool utility and self buffs via passives the other classes are getting this is an absolute must!
This is my single biggest concern right now, make it viable for us to move around!
Remove the requirement of standing inside a small ground placed circle, allow it to become a true self buff that sticks to our characters, thank you!

The good:
- Snare on Puncturing Strikes instead granting target free CC immunity

- Major Mending through our Purify and Rune

- Bug fixes with some major abilities that didn't affect stamina templars though

- Minor buffs like Minor Protection on Rune etc, nothing big though but still nice

The bad:
- Class ultimates need a second looks; especially the ones in the Aedric Spear and Restoring Light skill trees are still not up to scratch

- Eclipse needs a second look; it will still not be worth using in PvP simply because it can just be CC broken, give it the DK treatment

- Sun Shield will still be worthless, it needs to possible not be hit by Battle Fatigue

- No changes aimed particularly at making stamina more viable; would like to see more stamina morphs

What wasn't touched upon:
- Burning Light; hidden CD and lack of procs on shields and damage type
In this thread on page 5 at the bottom: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/234362/templar-issues-thread/p5
Gina posts the following: "Burning Light – The proc chance appears to be lower than 25% •There’s currently a half-second cooldown on this ability so when
using a fast attack, such as Puncturing Strikes, it will not proc twice in a row. Also note that we’ve balanced the DPS of these abilities with this in mind."
What happened to this? Was it forgotten? We still need clearenceon whether the CD was removed or not.
Burning Light will still not proc on shields, this is a major issue in both PvE and PvP since a large part of our damage comes from this passive, we need
clearence!
Also with this proc beinc such a big part of our damage I don't understand why it is only magick damage, in my opinion it should abide to the damage
type of the aedric spear ability used which it procs from, this would make stamina templars even more capable at DPS!

- Puncturing Stikes; damage and morphs
As templars and especially stamina templars are currently struggling to keep up in PvE and this is our main damage ability it should be reverted back to 170%
additional damage on main target instead of 140%. That is approxemately a 10% increase in damage and won't make a world of difference in PvP, but it will in
PvE. I understand this ability does the most damage in the game per ability, but it is also a channel, so it needs to hit hard!
There is a lot of discrepancy between the morphs of this ability. The magicka version has a major health return morph which is absolutely awesome while the
stamine version gives extra crit. While the crit is really nice wouldn't it also be fair if the stamina version returned a bit of health? Where the magicka version
gives 40% health back maybe the stamina version could give 20%? This would certainly help stamina templars a lot in PvE content where staying alive while also
dealing damage can be a bit tough and would make a lot of sense considering we're a self healing class. In comparison the Surprise Attack from NBs also do A
LOT of things for them so I don't think this is a totally unfair change.

- Major Spell/Weapon Power
Templars are now the only class that get neither of those where other classes gets served them for nothing, is this intended or an oversight? I am fine with this
if you implement some of the other buffs suggested here but thought it was worth mentioning.

- Mobility; Rune Focus
Besides not getting Major Spell/Weapon Damage buffs Templars are now also the only class without any kind of movement option in either speed buffs or
movement utility. That is understandable, but you need to make Rune Focus a 100% self buffs to not lock Templars down in a certain position completely, we
need to be allowed to move around, and preferably all the self buffs that comes with Rune Focus should stick on us when moving around aswell. You cannot be
serious if you want us to weapon swap and renew a buff every 8 second with the current way PvP is being played, and yes I know it can be placed on main bar
aswell, but we all know that self buffs have no room on your damage bar, it would not be advantageous.

- Rescource Management; active abilities and passive abilities
Before I get too much into this, since it is a rather big deal I would like to do a class comparison of the tools available for each class to manage HIS OWN
rescources and maintain them, both through passives and active abilities. For the sake of simplicity I have excluded anything that has to do with health and
health regen since here we're more concerned about stamina and magicka.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Dragonknight:
7x ultimate cost magicka/stamina restored
2% stamina return when activating Earthen Heart ability
Draw Essence - restores magicka per enemy hit

Nightblade:
1848 magicka over 6 seconds when killing target with class execute
15% increased stamina/magicka recovery
8% increased magicka with Siphoning ability slotted
Siphonin Attacks - Restore 1k magicka and stamina on each basic attack and 10% chance of restoring 2k magicka and stamina per basic ability hit

Sorcerer:
5% reduced magicka/stamina cost
15% reduced ultimate cost
10% increased magicka recovery
20% increased stamina recovery with Daedric Summoning ability slotted
10% increased magicka regeneration with Restoring Twillight slotted (Minor Intellect)
5% max magicka/stamina with Bound Armor slotted
Dark Exchange - change stamina into health/magicka or magicka into health/stamina

Templar:
4% reduced magicka/stamina/ultimate cost
10% increased magicka/stamina regeneration (Minor Intellect and Minor Endurance)
Repentance - sucks health/stamina out of corpses
Channeled Focus - 120 magicka every 0.5 seconds
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

It quickly becomes very appearent that Nigblades and Sorcerers have the best deals.
Sorcerers have the best passives for sustaining magicka/stamina, on the other hand their active ability is not worth using.
Nightblades have som good passives for sustaining aswell, but their active ability is what really makes them the kings of managing rescources at the moment.
On top of this both classes have really awesome damage passives, but I won't go into detail on those here since we are talking about sustain.
Next we have the Dragonknights, these are a little tricky to judge because their passives aren't straight up bonuses, but when first a Dragonknight get going with some great ultimate generation they will be popping ultimates fairly often, and most times it will be like popping a tri-stat potion. It is hard to put a number on, but they are easily up to scratch when it comes to managing rescources, atleast on par with the Sorcerer. Their activated ability isn't worth it really but thought I should mention it anyway.
Then we have the Templar; 4% reduced cost is what they could amount to... Unless you play magicka in which you have Channeled Focus which is a really good ability aswell - but once again you need to stand still. Repentance gives us Minor Intellect and Endurance when slotted - here it is worth nothing that it is not just a 10% increase, so it won't stack with other minor buffs of the same kind. Anyway Repentance is good in PvE, but you wouldn't have it on main bar so you would never benefit from this, and in PvP it's the same story, only it is debatable whether you should slot it at all. On top of all this Templars have the highest base cost abilities in the game.

So the verdict is that if you play stamina once again rolling Templar is the worst choise when it comes to managing rescources, something needs to be done about this ZOS!

I would propose getting rid of the Master Ritualist passive in the Restoring Light tree; currently it is a resurrection passive and completely useless for the Templar and his allies outside stacking it with Kagrenac armor and almost instantly ressing people, which is also an issue. Change this passive into some stamina and magicka return or whatever, just something to get us up to scratch!

I also seriously propose changing the behaviour from Repentance to maybe be usable on living targets instead or aswell and just add less rescources or something.

Templars and especially stamina templars needs some help in this area, please get on it!

In regards to damage passives across all four classes that is a bit harder to judge but to me it seems fairly balanced in terms of passives, if you also take into account the class abilities.

The Final Verdict and Conclusion

This is kind of a TL;DR version but in order to understand these conclusions you have to read the rest of the post, so if you haven't, please do!

In order for Stamina Templar to truely be worth playing again you need to do the following, at the very MINIMUM, in addition to the changes you already made:

- Puncturing Strikes and its morphs back to 170% additional damage on main target
- Fix Burning Light hidden cooldown and the proccing on shields
- Further buffs to class ultimates; see suggestions above!
- Better rescource manage (stamina/magicka) through passives; see suggestions above!
- Make Eclipse a self buff that absorbs/reflects instead of a targeted effect; see suggestion above!
- Sun Shield should not be affected by Battle Fatigue and possible recieve more buffs
- See if you can add more stamina morphs; other classes have them; see suggestions above!
- Make sure you make Rune Focus and morphs self buffs instead of ground targeted effects, do not lock us down into one position; see suggestion above!

I hope the people I tagged and possibly others will chime in for their feedback on stamina templars now, and if you have any remarks to what I have written feel free to give them now. I must ask people to refrain from quoting the entire thing, because that will be very annoying for ZOS if/when they see this post.

To ZOS I would like to extend my thanks for making this game, despite all my QQ I am having a lot of fun and I am very passionate about my class so I hope you will atleast aknowledge this thread and tell me here and hopefully take of my suggestions in make the appropriate changes before PTS is over.

To all the people I have discussed this with over the last day since patch notes hit and before that, including some of the people I quoted at the top of the page, I just want to say thanks for the discussions and I hope you will chime in and let ZOS know what needs to be done.

Thank you everyone for reading!

contact.opiumb16_ESO

Jura23 wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

Agree with pretty much everything you said. I just don't understand ZOS's reasoning for Templar having to stand still...Rune Focus will be useless in VMA with these changes. 4 seconds on major mending? So Templar is the only class in the game that has to constantly recast their armor on top of having the worst resource management?

Overall a few of the changes were great, we really needed the snare on Jabs (should be first hit) and the major mending buff. Now it's time for more changes, why does Binding Javelin cost so much for a 3s stun? Add Major Fracture to it please. Most of these changes were clearly not thought out from the perspective of a Templar, I strongly suspect that no-one on the class balancing team even plays a Templar.

Make our "Rune" more like the Paladin from Diablo with Auras that follow us and buff people around us.

Don't really want to say too much till I test out all these changes but man, my heart is heavy after reading the patch notes. Once again Templar just feels marginalized and ignored.

There is one problem with this. There are ppl who use Ransack as their dps ability and that grants Major Fracture. That's why I would prefer something else for Javelin.

Javelin tooltip says "hurl your spear at an ennemy with a GODLIKE STRENGH".... BUT, BUT, the damage is low compared to the damage done, so it shall give Enpowered buff, wich works with magicka AND stamina users.

For stamplars, the rotation "javelin (hard cc) - (enpowered buff) - critical rush (buffed) - jabs - (soft cc) - javelin (hard cc) - (enpowered buff) - executionner (buffed and stamina return)" seems sexy.

Zinaroth

Idinuse wrote: »

You really love that GIF don't you?

BEZDNA

Zinaroth wrote: »

BEZDNA wrote: »

2. 0,5 sec CD on burning light should also stay.

2. I disagree, and if it does it should state it in the tooltip for transparency.

I'm all for transparency on a tooltips, that would be so nice to see all hidden cool downs and would make so much sense and will save us lots of time theory crafting new builds. However i still think that CD should stay because otherwise that passive pulls ridiculous numbers in aoe fights what is the main reason why we have that CD. I believe that dps increase should go via increase of actual damage of abilities, like bringing back damage boost for jabs on first target to 170% and adjusting tooltip damage.

Zinaroth wrote: »

BEZDNA wrote: »

3. I also like that Major Savagery buff from Biting Jabs and don't want it be changed. Vigor and Rally are doing their job well.

3. I was talking about adding the passive healing in addition to the Major Savagery.

Adding passive healing is not a way to go. I personal think that there is no need on adding additional effects to Jabs and i like that weapon crit i get from them, however we could use some kind of additional enemy debuff on a final hit like 30% snare, armor debuff, may be damaged debuff or even healing debuff - that would be so great. Just imagine heal debuff from Jabs, hahaha i like that. The reason i don't agree with passive healing from Jabs is because utility is not a strong side of any stamina builds, non of stam builds have strong healing, dk and sorcs don't eaven have spamablem stamina class skills, only sorcs have surge but that's one of 2 fings they got for there poor stamina spec which also suffer a lot. And not templars get major manding via passive which will give stamina templars more utility.

Zinaroth wrote: »

BEZDNA wrote: »

4. I see more reasonable to do Vampires Bane a stamina morph and Reflective Light stay as a magic morph.

4. Sure, or just make Reflective Light have both a stamina and magicka morph and get rid of Vampire's Bane.

I just feel that skill that hits multiple enemies shud be a magica morph. when dot with longer duration shud be stamina. Could implement that in pvp and pve builds. Still sad that even if zos make it stamina morph, it will be fire damage. Like dk's dots now.

Zinaroth wrote: »

BEZDNA wrote: »

6. Rune Focus - totally agree that Major Resolve and Major Ward buffs should stay on a templar for entire duration, but additional effects should stay as they are right now on pts. These is a powerfully tool to hold your ground. Making it work for 20 sec makes these skill ridiculously op and imbalanced.

6. Glad you agree, I don't think giving the Minor Protection during those 20 second aswell would be OP though. Sorcerers get Major Expidition and pulsing AoE with their armor buff and DKs get a minor reflect and either an AoE or a shield with their armor buff, PLUS +14% healing taken from the class passive Burning Heart. NBs get theirs passively from using their best damage ability. I don't think Templars having a 20 second armor buff that gives both Major Resolve and Major Ward along with Minor Protection would be OP, but Major Mending probably shouldn't be part of the deal too. We have Purifying Ritual right now for that anyway, the area is of decent size. If they change the armor buff to 20 seconds and a true self buff (which I doubt they will) then I don't see why Minor Protection shouldn't follow, otherwise it would just be a bad version of what the other classes have. That would ofcource however follow the general theme of the Templar's abilities. Right now a Stamina Templar doesn't even bother with Rune Focus in PvP, they just slot Purifying Ritual and forego the defense because there's too much micro managing with recasting it or trying to stay inside the circle.

I admit it, you convinced me. You did vary valid points. The additional buffs from Rune Focus and it's morphs should stick on you for the whole duration. That applayes to armor buff, to magica return and to Minor Protection and Minor Vitality. I was not sure about magica return for the first time, but i did some math. And for example for a magica dk in full dps gear by using standart of might batle foar will grant me 17k magica and that's the only way to gain magica for dk in next patch. With ulti gain of 3 per sec that 17k magica is equal to 205 magica per second, when rune focus gives us 240 magica per second. Well offcous those numbers will be lover for dk in pvp build and specialy in stamina build, but i belive templars should have better magica managementthat dk's anyway. So i'm totallywith you considering rune focus change.

But one note, that should not apply to major manding buff. I like how zos did it and i think it's pretty balanced. Cleansing Ritual has a huge area to stay in and that skill is way to good to not slot. And 4 sec after leaving Rune Focus is more then enough to cast your vigo or rally to get a buffed healing, like dk's do, there major manding last for 6-7 sec if i remember correctly.

Dedricus

Wrobel has condemned us to suffer for 3 months. Hahaha.

Soris

Dedricus wrote: »

Wrobel has condemned us to suffer for 3 months. Hahaha.

In every update he says the exact same thing. I swear he said they are gonna doing complete class balance and armor changes for update 9. Where are they now except a couple nerfs and buffs?? Where is that heavy armor buffs?? Now it pushed to update 10 and it willbe pushed to update 11 when update 10 comes. That's typical.

Essiaga

I posted a poll about how Templars feel after ESO live with Wrobel ...

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2691464#Comment_2691464

@Alcast @Mumyo @Husan @Morathras @Soris @BlackEar @Springt-Über-Zwerge @Joy_Division @AfkNinja @Cinbri @Jura23 @dodgehopper_ESO @SemiD4rkness @BalticBlues @AOECAPS @Zinaroth

Idinuse

Zinaroth wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

You really love that GIF don't you?

Lol I really do. I just love the look in Orsons' eyes and playing on what's well(s) worthy of applauses. I do have a Brad Pitt variant though, dont get me started.

Zinaroth

Essiaga wrote: »

I posted a poll about how Templars feel after ESO live with Wrobel ...

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2691464#Comment_2691464

@Alcast @Mumyo @Husan @Morathras @Soris @BlackEar @Springt-Über-Zwerge @Joy_Division @AfkNinja @Cinbri @Jura23 @dodgehopper_ESO @SemiD4rkness @BalticBlues @AOECAPS @Zinaroth

Voted "D ... Eh . I think PVE-wise maybe but PVP-wise the Templar needs work that obviously isn't coming anytime soon." with the comment:
Magicka Templar in PvE is going to be fine in next patch.
Magicka Templar in PvP is going to be okay in next patch.
Stamina Templars in PvE are currently non-existant and will be until update 10 it seems.
Stamina Templars in PvP are currently really bad and will be until update 10 it seems.

Dedricus wrote: »

Wrobel has condemned us to suffer for 3 months. Hahaha.

Soris wrote: »

Dedricus wrote: »

Wrobel has condemned us to suffer for 3 months. Hahaha.

In every update he says the exact same thing. I swear he said they are gonna doing complete class balance and armor changes for update 9. Where are they now except a couple nerfs and buffs?? Where is that heavy armor buffs?? Now it pushed to update 10 and it willbe pushed to update 11 when update 10 comes. That's typical.

I know right? Well atleast I am happy that they are aware of the problems, though I was hoping we could get something fixed now instead of waiting another 3 months, or 6, or 9, or another year, or...

Cinbri

Zinaroth wrote: »

Magicka Templar in PvP is going to be okay in next patch.

Nope, they are not even near to be good with current changes. I will wait to see next incremental patches but i already can predict what will happen in Cyro - population of templars will be decreased at least half(i.e. come to non-existence) coz most of people used them mostly as twinks only for healbot build while stacking in 5m train. With current "buffs" nor healbot nor trains will be viable in Cyro, so most of templars we will see will be stamplars, who at lest can do some damage and have at least some mobility.
As i said - we left on bottom, but now without our magicka DKs buddies.

Soris

Actually in pts, magplar dmg is good if you build for glass cannon. But then it's true glass cannon, not like sorcs so called glass cannons. One cc and a timed burst kills the magplar since his survivability coming from healing the damage done instead of mitigating the dmg to zero with shield stacking.

And that's pretty balanced if you ask me for objectivity. But other classes are ahead of this. Either templar should be pushed to the level of other classes or they should come down to templar level. By other means, templar needs a better shield and a miss-like/dmg reduction skill or sorc and nb defensive capabilities should be nerfed. I dont want anyone get any nerf anymore. So yes, buff templar!

Zinaroth

Cinbri wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

Magicka Templar in PvP is going to be okay in next patch.

Nope, they are not even near to be good with current changes. I will wait to see next incremental patches but i already can predict what will happen in Cyro - population of templars will be decreased at least half(i.e. come to non-existence) coz most of people used them mostly as twinks only for healbot build while stacking in 5m train. With current "buffs" nor healbot nor trains will be viable in Cyro, so most of templars we will see will be stamplars, who at lest can do some damage and have at least some mobility.
As i said - we left on bottom, but now without our magicka DKs buddies.

I can't comment on open world, but the changes made to Templars are making Magicka Templars pretty good in duels. Nothing like the near Godlike status Magicka Sorcs have or Magicka NBs will have in open world, but they are still doing way better in duels than Stamina Templars.

I expect Magicka Templars will also do better in open world than Stamina Templars based on the CP changes and Detonation / Vicious Death, but that will remain to be shown...

I definately do not expect to see more Stamina Templars than Magicka Templars next patch. Especially not with the balance changes incoming making magicka builds much more powerful than stamina.

Soris wrote: »

Actually in pts, magplar dmg is good if you build for glass cannon. But then it's true glass cannon, not like sorcs so called glass cannons. One cc and a timed burst kills the magplar since his survivability coming from healing the damage done instead of mitigating the dmg to zero with shield stacking.

And that's pretty balanced if you ask me for objectivity. But other classes are ahead of this. Either templar should be pushed to the level of other classes or they should come down to templar level. By other means, templar needs a better shield and a miss-like/dmg reduction skill or sorc and nb defensive capabilities should be nerfed. I dont want anyone get any nerf anymore. So yes, buff templar!

Yeah. Not saying that Magicka Templars will be better than the other classes, I still think they will be somewhat at the bottom, but they will certainly be a lot more potent in duels and small scale than they are now.

Cinbri

Since Wrobel confirmed that Templar = DK, templar should get DK treatment. I don't understand why dks got serious buffs but templars not. Also he said that they helped classes to fight ball groups - Talons damage revamped/Inhale became equal to what it was in 1.0, sorc's aoe Frags significantly improved, but can anyone tell me what buff against ball groups templars got?

Zinaroth

Cinbri wrote: »

Since Wrobel confirmed that Templar = DK, templar should get DK treatment. I don't understand why dks got serious buffs but templars not. Also he said that they helped classes to fight ball groups - Talons damage revamped/Inhale became equal to what it was in 1.0, sorc's aoe Frags significantly improved, but can anyone tell me what buff against ball groups templars got?

Nothing.
I also like that he argued against Templars getting movement speed utility because "they don't want all classes to feel the same" and that "templars are supposed to bunker down and be really tough to kill", except Templars are currently the easiest class to kill and standing still in the current PvP meta that is all about movement is not viable at all.
Templars are also the only class without access to Major weapon/spell damage aswell as movement utility/buffs, but I guess that is again because "they don't want all classes to feel the same".
I don't understand this argument aswell. I know the DK class speed buff is minor to say the least, but atleast it is there, right.
Templars being the only class without access to movement or damage buffs inside the class tree because "they don't want classes to feel the same" is ridiculous.
If they really want to take that stand then Templars need some serious buffs in survivability, right now we make the worst tanks. That doesn't fit well with bunkering down and claiming an area.

Soris

@Wrobel ^Listen to this man. Let us at least try that bunker templar in your mind Eric. We dont really need to wait 3 more months, just change the numbers on our shield in the next pts update and let we test how it work out. It's test server dude, meant for testing.

There is literally nothing to test more than couple hours for templar in pts. It's just same old stuff with couple small tweaks here and there. No real difference than the live server.

FullBlownBeast

Nothing till update 10 peeps, make this thread in another 3-4 months.

AfkNinja

Essiaga wrote: »

I posted a poll about how Templars feel after ESO live with Wrobel ...

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2691464#Comment_2691464

@Alcast @Mumyo @Husan @Morathras @Soris @BlackEar @Springt-Über-Zwerge @Joy_Division @AfkNinja @Cinbri @Jura23 @dodgehopper_ESO @SemiD4rkness @BalticBlues @AOECAPS @Zinaroth

I voted that I feel spat on, because I do. If you look at the overall changes over the last year it's obvious Templar's were a complete afterthought. None of our changes are well reasoned and none of them define a Templar. A small dmg increase on Dark Flare ain't gonna change anything, neither will major mending. Stamplar also got completely ignored. It's obvious at this point ZOS doesn't care about templars and don't care if we keep playing, so why should I?

Mumyo

AfkNinja wrote: »

Essiaga wrote: »

I posted a poll about how Templars feel after ESO live with Wrobel ...

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2691464#Comment_2691464

@Alcast @Mumyo @Husan @Morathras @Soris @BlackEar @Springt-Über-Zwerge @Joy_Division @AfkNinja @Cinbri @Jura23 @dodgehopper_ESO @SemiD4rkness @BalticBlues @AOECAPS @Zinaroth

I voted that I feel spat on, because I do. If you look at the overall changes over the last year it's obvious Templar's were a complete afterthought. None of our changes are well reasoned and none of them define a Templar. A small dmg increase on Dark Flare ain't gonna change anything, neither will major mending. Stamplar also got completely ignored. It's obvious at this point ZOS doesn't care about templars and don't care if we keep playing, so why should I?

hey there, ah i think stamina templar indeed got some stuff. I was on the pts today and the new thaumaturge makes our stamina jabs benefit alot. It goes along with poison injection and other things. The increased healing is also very nice. The only issue i have is testing without cp... in pvp. Javelin range also is really wicked.
I had issues testing this precisely since i dont trust me addons but it seems like burning light is now also proccing on shields.

Now trying to see where i templar might be very strong is dotbuilds (jab is dot damage and also profits from it) and surviveability. Empowering sweep seems to last 10seconds (trusting a friend here) and we get the minorbuff additional from the new rune which is great for stamina. We can also combine that with low slash or dizzying swing.

We are way tankier now and do more dmg. But as i said... i cant really test pvp since we dont have any cp and some clases are better off with cp than others. (Dk profits alot with battle roar or Magickatemplar with channeling focus).

Many changes will depend on the playstyle of others. But its definately too early to stay Templar was ignored or sucks.
I also did some testing on the Templars charge and i havent had any bugs yet except from some environmental stuff where more skills had their issues.

Zinaroth

Bump for exposure.

caeliusstarbreaker

Keep jabs the same as live.

AfkNinja

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

Keep jabs the same as live.

Getting rid of the .5 sec knockback was a buff. No more handing out 6+ seconds of CC immunity when using jabs. All they need to do is change the snare to the first hit, or all hits for 2 sec snare at 70%.

Major Mending was a good boon, now we just need some defensive magicka dump utility. Fix sun shield, or Eclipse, or give us back blinding flashes etc etc.

AfkNinja

Mumyo wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

Essiaga wrote: »

I posted a poll about how Templars feel after ESO live with Wrobel ...

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2691464#Comment_2691464

@Alcast @Mumyo @Husan @Morathras @Soris @BlackEar @Springt-Über-Zwerge @Joy_Division @AfkNinja @Cinbri @Jura23 @dodgehopper_ESO @SemiD4rkness @BalticBlues @AOECAPS @Zinaroth

I voted that I feel spat on, because I do. If you look at the overall changes over the last year it's obvious Templar's were a complete afterthought. None of our changes are well reasoned and none of them define a Templar. A small dmg increase on Dark Flare ain't gonna change anything, neither will major mending. Stamplar also got completely ignored. It's obvious at this point ZOS doesn't care about templars and don't care if we keep playing, so why should I?

hey there, ah i think stamina templar indeed got some stuff. I was on the pts today and the new thaumaturge makes our stamina jabs benefit alot. It goes along with poison injection and other things. The increased healing is also very nice. The only issue i have is testing without cp... in pvp. Javelin range also is really wicked.
I had issues testing this precisely since i dont trust me addons but it seems like burning light is now also proccing on shields.

Now trying to see where i templar might be very strong is dotbuilds (jab is dot damage and also profits from it) and surviveability. Empowering sweep seems to last 10seconds (trusting a friend here) and we get the minorbuff additional from the new rune which is great for stamina. We can also combine that with low slash or dizzying swing.

We are way tankier now and do more dmg. But as i said... i cant really test pvp since we dont have any cp and some clases are better off with cp than others. (Dk profits alot with battle roar or Magickatemplar with channeling focus).

Many changes will depend on the playstyle of others. But its definately too early to stay Templar was ignored or sucks.
I also did some testing on the Templars charge and i havent had any bugs yet except from some environmental stuff where more skills had their issues.

After some time I calmed down a bit and I do expect the new changes to Stamplar to be pretty decent. The range on Jav is irrelevant to me, it's still weak with a high cost. I am mostly ok with Restoring Focus however, now we just need good magicka dumps for defensive utility.

Edit: Still not impressed with power of the light and almost our entire toolkit but hey at least Restoring Focus has a use now.

BalticBlues

AfkNinja wrote: »

The range on Jav is irrelevant to me, it's still weak with a high cost.

Exactly. This is one of the most expensive skills, resulting in no noteworthy damage.
The cost-performance ratio simply is not good enough to slot it.

What exactly is the use of a new 28m range if Javelin then pushes enemies out of our range?
Cut the Javelin costs to half and limit the range to half, then we have a deal.

AfkNinja

BalticBlues wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

The range on Jav is irrelevant to me, it's still weak with a high cost.

Exactly. This is one of the most expensive skills, resulting in no noteworthy damage.
As with many Templar skills, the cost-performance ratio simply is not good enough to slot it.

What exactly is the use of a new 28m range if Javelin then pushes enemies out of our range?
Cut the Javelin costs to half and limit the range to half, then we have a deal.

They need to just give it Major Breach/Fracture depending on morph. Then it will be 100% worth the cost and dmg.