Stamina Templar Balancing Thread

Mumyo

AfkNinja wrote: »

Mumyo wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

Essiaga wrote: »

I posted a poll about how Templars feel after ESO live with Wrobel ...

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2691464#Comment_2691464

@Alcast @Mumyo @Husan @Morathras @Soris @BlackEar @Springt-Über-Zwerge @Joy_Division @AfkNinja @Cinbri @Jura23 @dodgehopper_ESO @SemiD4rkness @BalticBlues @AOECAPS @Zinaroth

I voted that I feel spat on, because I do. If you look at the overall changes over the last year it's obvious Templar's were a complete afterthought. None of our changes are well reasoned and none of them define a Templar. A small dmg increase on Dark Flare ain't gonna change anything, neither will major mending. Stamplar also got completely ignored. It's obvious at this point ZOS doesn't care about templars and don't care if we keep playing, so why should I?

hey there, ah i think stamina templar indeed got some stuff. I was on the pts today and the new thaumaturge makes our stamina jabs benefit alot. It goes along with poison injection and other things. The increased healing is also very nice. The only issue i have is testing without cp... in pvp. Javelin range also is really wicked.
I had issues testing this precisely since i dont trust me addons but it seems like burning light is now also proccing on shields.

Now trying to see where i templar might be very strong is dotbuilds (jab is dot damage and also profits from it) and surviveability. Empowering sweep seems to last 10seconds (trusting a friend here) and we get the minorbuff additional from the new rune which is great for stamina. We can also combine that with low slash or dizzying swing.

We are way tankier now and do more dmg. But as i said... i cant really test pvp since we dont have any cp and some clases are better off with cp than others. (Dk profits alot with battle roar or Magickatemplar with channeling focus).

Many changes will depend on the playstyle of others. But its definately too early to stay Templar was ignored or sucks.
I also did some testing on the Templars charge and i havent had any bugs yet except from some environmental stuff where more skills had their issues.

After some time I calmed down a bit and I do expect the new changes to Stamplar to be pretty decent. The range on Jav is irrelevant to me, it's still weak with a high cost. I am mostly ok with Restoring Focus however, now we just need good magicka dumps for defensive utility.

Edit: Still not impressed with power of the light and almost our entire toolkit but hey at least Restoring Focus has a use now.

After some testing of the new backlash i came to the conclusion that its still a bad ability. It really still is!.
In terms of Javelin i agree, it should have less costs!

TheM0rganism

A couple things I'd like to see that will help the class overall (for the record, I'm coming from a Stamina Templar Tank perspective):

1) AOE CC: Add an AOE stun to the damage portion of both Sun Shield morphs.

2) MOBILITY: Replace Master Ritualist passive with a 2 sec Minor Expedition buff for all party members affected by a Restoring Light spell. NO COOLDOWN; making Repentance/Radiant Aura into AMAZING must-have spells.

3) REGEN: Add a 8% all-resources return per enemy hit on Empowering Sweep along with making it physical damage.

4) STAMINA VIABLE HEAL/REGEN: Make Eclipse return %12 of max health.

5) AOE SUPPORT REGEN: Spears should add high passive regen (mag = luminous, sta = blazing) when inside its range to party members, like Channeled Focus does. Don't have it be a named Passive, though, just a flat, high number (like 150 every .5 seconds).

6) A CLASS SUPPORT SHIELD: Healing Ritual casts a 2k shield upon activation as well, to make up for the delay.

7) ANTI-CLOAK COUNTERPLAY: Backlash should keep targets from cloaking for it's duration and for 2 seconds after it pops.

8) BUFF THE MOST UNDERUTILIZED MORPH: Radiant Aura no longer needs to be activated (always on for all allies), and damage done by you and your allies returns 1% of max of all three resources. CD of 2 seconds.

9) BUFF AN UNDERWHELMING SKILL: Piercing Javelin should cause a bleed.

10) BUFF AN UNDERWHELMING ULTIMATE: Rite of Passage is boring af. Make one of it's morphs insta-rez one or two party members in the radius on one morph (call it Path of the Phoenix), and put BOTH other morphs onto a single one (increased duration and bonus resistances).

11) FIX BROKEN PASSIVES: Make Burning Light proc on every 3rd AS skill used, to add a sense of strategy and rotation, instead of the hidden CDs and proc rates. Also, make Balanced Warrior give Spell Damage.

12) MAKE NOVA A MORE SOLO-VIABLE ULT: Remove the synergy and have it proc if an enemy has been affected by it for more than 4 seconds.

13) MAKE RUNE FOCUS MOBILE: The rune stays on you and nearby Allies receive Minor Resolve and Ward

Mumyo

My house has a Trap just behind the frontdoor! Why we have no Trap!

Cinbri

Mumyo wrote: »

My house has a Trap just behind the frontdoor! Why we have no Trap!

Only you must stay inside your house, noone said that your guests should stay there too.

caeliusstarbreaker

AfkNinja wrote: »

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

Keep jabs the same as live.

Getting rid of the .5 sec knockback was a buff. No more handing out 6+ seconds of CC immunity when using jabs. All they need to do is change the snare to the first hit, or all hits for 2 sec snare at 70%.

Major Mending was a good boon, now we just need some defensive magicka dump utility. Fix sun shield, or Eclipse, or give us back blinding flashes etc etc.

I personally disagree that getting rid of the CC was a buff. There should be a CC/disorient/interrupt or something attached to the skill other wise you are just fodder. A channel dps with a 2 sec snare at the end? All you're inviting is to get whacked in the side of the head by any ability, while you attempt to do dmg.. With no follow up. In my opinion any ways.

AfkNinja

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

Keep jabs the same as live.

Getting rid of the .5 sec knockback was a buff. No more handing out 6+ seconds of CC immunity when using jabs. All they need to do is change the snare to the first hit, or all hits for 2 sec snare at 70%.

Major Mending was a good boon, now we just need some defensive magicka dump utility. Fix sun shield, or Eclipse, or give us back blinding flashes etc etc.

I personally disagree that getting rid of the CC was a buff. There should be a CC/disorient/interrupt or something attached to the skill other wise you are just fodder. A channel dps with a 2 sec snare at the end? All you're inviting is to get whacked in the side of the head by any ability, while you attempt to do dmg.. With no follow up. In my opinion any ways.

And keeping the half second knockback does what? It gives free CC immunity for like 6 seconds, are you honestly trying to argue that a .5 sec knock back is worth 6 seconds of ignoring your CC? Seriously?

Dude just use binding/aurora jav before you charge to sweeps. Better overall effect, new snare makes it harder to get away. If they change the snare to the first hit it will literally be perfect as the snare will work to keep them in your jabs.

Templar have been asking ZOS to drop the .5 sec KB for over a year.

caeliusstarbreaker

AfkNinja wrote: »

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

Keep jabs the same as live.

Getting rid of the .5 sec knockback was a buff. No more handing out 6+ seconds of CC immunity when using jabs. All they need to do is change the snare to the first hit, or all hits for 2 sec snare at 70%.

Major Mending was a good boon, now we just need some defensive magicka dump utility. Fix sun shield, or Eclipse, or give us back blinding flashes etc etc.

I personally disagree that getting rid of the CC was a buff. There should be a CC/disorient/interrupt or something attached to the skill other wise you are just fodder. A channel dps with a 2 sec snare at the end? All you're inviting is to get whacked in the side of the head by any ability, while you attempt to do dmg.. With no follow up. In my opinion any ways.

And keeping the half second knockback does what? It gives free CC immunity for like 6 seconds, are you honestly trying to argue that a .5 sec knock back is worth 6 seconds of ignoring your CC? Seriously?

Dude just use binding/aurora jav before you charge to sweeps. Better overall effect, new snare makes it harder to get away. If they change the snare to the first hit it will literally be perfect as the snare will work to keep them in your jabs.

Templar have been asking ZOS to drop the .5 sec KB for over a year.

(Nothing said in a derogatory or diminutive fashion)

I mean I can make the same argument to you that if you want a snare, stampede (8 snare) in and if you want to ignore the CC (at the end of jabs) then using wrecking blow or javelin prior as well.

The trade of a back end CC for a crappy 2 sec snare is a nerf, as far as I'm concerned. Strictly because while you sit there channeling your attack, there is nothing to stop the 90 surprise attacks or wrecking blows that are coming your way. Or any other number of spamable abilities that do the same damage as 3-4 combined jabs, in one hit. Without a CC at the end you also don't get the benefit of using the exploiter passive increasing your damage to off balanced targets.

Keep the snare that's fine... I'm stipulating that it is not worth dropping a CC of any kind off the back end of jabs. Make it a disorient, make it a longer stun.

caeliusstarbreaker

**Sorry nerf is too harsh a word there , I'll liken it to an unpleasant change. It should come with some form of Hard CC, not a lazy snare.

AfkNinja

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

Keep jabs the same as live.

Getting rid of the .5 sec knockback was a buff. No more handing out 6+ seconds of CC immunity when using jabs. All they need to do is change the snare to the first hit, or all hits for 2 sec snare at 70%.

Major Mending was a good boon, now we just need some defensive magicka dump utility. Fix sun shield, or Eclipse, or give us back blinding flashes etc etc.

I personally disagree that getting rid of the CC was a buff. There should be a CC/disorient/interrupt or something attached to the skill other wise you are just fodder. A channel dps with a 2 sec snare at the end? All you're inviting is to get whacked in the side of the head by any ability, while you attempt to do dmg.. With no follow up. In my opinion any ways.

And keeping the half second knockback does what? It gives free CC immunity for like 6 seconds, are you honestly trying to argue that a .5 sec knock back is worth 6 seconds of ignoring your CC? Seriously?

Dude just use binding/aurora jav before you charge to sweeps. Better overall effect, new snare makes it harder to get away. If they change the snare to the first hit it will literally be perfect as the snare will work to keep them in your jabs.

Templar have been asking ZOS to drop the .5 sec KB for over a year.

(Nothing said in a derogatory or diminutive fashion)

I mean I can make the same argument to you that if you want a snare, stampede in (Stampede is worse than Crit Rush and not needed, if you need a snare outside of jabs there are many weapon options for that.) and if you want to ignore the CC then using wrecking blow or javelin prior as well. (Jabs CC would be worth it if it was 3 secs like WB, but it's not. Literally all it does is a weak interrupt and in return you give them CC immunity. You are buffing them by using it as your CC. Every CC in the game is better than Jabs/Sweeps. Your argument is a poor one, no offense.)

The trade of a back end CC for a crappy 2 sec snare is a nerf, as far as I'm concerned (You would be incorrect, the issue with Jabs is landing the full thing on someone. Without landing all hits it's weaker than Wrecking Blow and other primary sources of DPS. If the snare is changed to the first hit as I stated Jabs would keep people in it or force them to dodge roll which nukes their stamina management.) Strictly because while you sit there channeling your attack, there is nothing to stop the 90 surprise attacks or wrecking blows that are coming your way. Or any other number of spamable abilities that do the same damage as 3-4 combined jabs, in one hit (There are no abilities that hit as hard as 3-4 Jabs in one instant hit. I believe you are attempting to say they are instant and hit as hard as one full Jabs but this is also incorrect. The only skill in the game that hits as hard or harder that a Jabs which lands 4 hits and procs burning light is Wrecking Blow which requires a one second channel just like Jabs. Also Crystal Frags/Dark Flare, which can be reflected.). Without a CC at the end you also don't get the benefit of using the exploiter passive increasing your damage to off balanced targets. (You can get off balance from many sources, this is a poor argument.)

Keep the snare that's fine... I'm stipulating that it is not worth dropping a CC of any kind off the back end of jabs. Make it a disorient, make it a longer stun.

(Also - Nothing said in a derogatory or diminutive fashion)

The issue I have with your argument is that you really think .5 seconds of CC is worth ANYTHING. You can get better CC from other skills. Jabs is for dmg, to dmg your foe you must land all of your hits. To land all of your hits snare is more beneficial than a weak CC which you shouldn't be relying on in the first place.

All they need to do is change the snare to the first hit and Jabs/Sweeps is fixed. It will be hard to avoid, do a ton of dmg and force enemies into making one of three choices:

1. Eat the dmg (With all four hits and burning light proc Jabs hits like a truck. Except against shields.....)
2. Dodge roll and hurt your stamina sustain
3. Block and lose all of your stamina (Templars excel at forcing block to drop. due to bonus dmg against blockers and jabs being multi-hit which crushes stamina when blocked.)

caeliusstarbreaker

@AfkNinja .. so as not to clog up with quotes.

Crit Rush vs Stampede
This is strictly an opinion based. Crit Rush better over all damage if hit from further away, however if enemy is snared and it is more difficult for them to get away, then you don't get full benefit of the range dmg. Stampede was offered up as a superior option to a 2 sec snare duration at the end of jabs, since the 8 second snare initially allows you to hit more jabs... which I think we both agree should in fact be the overall goal. Stampede is offering you a snare, a reliable gap closer, and some pretty decent damage. People will have their preferences, however it is my experience with Stamplar, and ability slots coming at a premium, this has a much higher bang-for-the-buck.

I do not disagree with you that the snare should be moved to front end of the animation. It is alleviated in current model of the live game with stampede, since in most cases your gap close is your opener.

Ok, so lets look at some rough math. I'll use my average numbers as well as other people I know as a base and explain what I mean in regards to the cumulative jabs and abilities that deliver equal or higher damage in one burst. Granted these numbers will be prone to mass fluctuation depending on impen, CP, armor, shields etc. as well as on current live game.
Avg Wrecking blow range of damage 7-12k window
Avg Surprise attack 5-8k
Ave Jab (lets go with a crit here and say roughly) 2.4k

Lets also say our jabs crit each time

So 2 jabs are gonna put us at 4.8k. A surprise attack is going to already beat out our dps if we connect at half of our channel, let alone one that is animation cancelled with a light attack/heavy attack and/or bash. Also a Wrecking blow, which is roughly the same cast time as around 2-3 of our jabs, is going to even at the low end of its damage only be 200 dmg off 3 out of 4 of our jabs. Jabs being 7.2k (again all crit, and numbers based of most common I see in Cyrodiil.) Of course a follow-up or empowered wrecking blow will hit harder and you can squeeze in several surprise attacks, so on and so forth and down the line we go. Where the big bump to templar is... if you hit all 4 jabs.. and they crit... and you get a burning light proc.. yes, templars will hit harder then just about anything in the game. However, its all has to happen.

Where all this factors in...
Yes, its a crappy CC. Yes, it gives CC immunity. But templar being a cumulative/volume of fire dps class (Stamina anyway) which requires you to use a channel, which leaves you open for CC, to not have a CC(of any kind) or some interrupt element at the end of my dps channel, with which to change the tempo of the enemy, or to interrupt them in their cast time/spamming, and to have it replaced by a 2 sec snare.. does not seem to be a beneficial trade off to me. As I do often direct my last jab towards a known threat, be it my initial target, or his buddy loading up a wrecking blow, crystal frags etc.
So in summary, I would rather have that short crappy CC with which to better control my scenarios, plug a choke point, or stop someone spamming and ability on me, than a meager 2 sec snare at the end.


Now, where I agree with you is that it should have its snare in the beginning of the animation. Or like all other cast time abilities be fitted with a hard CC in the way of a 3 sec stun, or crystal frag/wrecking blow knock down (not back). I think there should be something on the back end of that ability and it shouldn't be a snare. But for ZoS to give Templars a tool that will make people fear Templars again... well that's a different story.

AfkNinja

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

@AfkNinja .. so as not to clog up with quotes.

Crit Rush vs Stampede
This is strictly an opinion based. Sorry no, this is based on math. Critical Rush will always hit harder from any distance period. It auto crits.

Crit Rush is better over all damage if hit from further away, however if enemy is snared and it is more difficult for them to get away, then you don't get full benefit of the range dmg. This is irrelevant, Crit rush will always hit harder. Always. Further using any gap closer will halt your enemy for a second making the snare on Stampede pretty redundant imo. (Assuming the snare stays on Jabs anyway. Otherwise I would need some source of Snare which I usually get from Weapon Abilities.)

Stampede was offered up as a superior option to a 2 sec snare duration at the end of jabs, since the 8 second snare initially allows you to hit more jabs... which I think we both agree should in fact be the overall goal. Keeping people in front of you in your jabs is priority #1, yes.

Stampede is offering you a redundant snare, a reliable gap closer (Crit Rush functions just as well, this point is irrelevant.) , and some pretty decent MEH damage. People will have their preferences, however it is my experience opinion with Stamplar, and ability slots coming at a premium, this has a much higher bang-for-the-buck. Disagree.

I do not disagree with you that the snare should be moved to front end of the animation. It is alleviated in current model of the live game with stampede, since in most cases your gap close is your opener.

Ok, so lets look at some rough math. I'll use my average numbers as well as other people I know as a base and explain what I mean in regards to the cumulative jabs and abilities that deliver equal or higher damage in one burst. Granted these numbers will be prone to mass fluctuation depending on impen, CP, armor, shields etc. as well as on current live game.
Avg Wrecking blow range of damage 7-12k window
Avg Surprise attack 5-8k
Ave Jab (lets go with a crit here and say roughly) 2.4k (Your crit is 2.4k on 1 jab? That seems low? You are multiplying your tooltip by 2.4 for 140% yes???)

Lets also say our jabs crit each time

So 2 jabs are gonna put us at 4.8k. A surprise attack is going to already beat out our dps if we connect at half of our channel, let alone one that is animation cancelled with a light attack/heavy attack and/or bash. Also a Wrecking blow, which is roughly the same cast time as around 2-3 of our jabs, is going to even at the low end of its damage only be 200 dmg off 3 out of 4 of our jabs. Jabs being 7.2k (again all crit, and numbers based of most common I see in Cyrodiil.) Of course a follow-up or empowered wrecking blow will hit harder and you can squeeze in several surprise attacks, so on and so forth and down the line we go. Where the big bump to templar is... if you hit all 4 jabs.. and they crit... and you get a burning light proc.. yes, templars will hit harder then just about anything in the game. However, its all has to happen.

(Dark Flare hits harder with less effort. Either way though your numbers appear to be off.)

Where all this factors in...
Yes, its a crappy CC. Thank you for seeing my point.
Yes, it gives CC immunity. It's not that it gives immunity, it's that it gives 6 seconds of it for only one half of a second of use. IT'S TERRIBLE and prevents you from using a REAL CC. It's bad because the opportunity cost of using that .5 sec KB is TERRIBLE.

But templar being a cumulative/volume of fire dps class (Stamina anyway) which requires you to use a channel, which leaves you open for CC, to not have a CC(of any kind) or some interrupt element at the end of my dps channel, with which to change the tempo of the enemy, or to interrupt them in their cast time/spamming, and to have it replaced by a 2 sec snare.. does not seem to be a beneficial trade off to me. As I do often direct my last jab towards a known threat, be it my initial target, or his buddy loading up a wrecking blow, crystal frags etc.

Your whole argument here hinges on you getting lucky, they just HAPPEN to be in range of jabs when you need to CC them, they just HAPPEN to not have CC immunity from a prior jab etc. In all scenarios and situations Javelin will be a better CC option and you should be using it. Hell Invasion is waaaaaaayyyyyy better than KB on Jabs. It is sad sad SAD that Javelin is our best in class CC. Seriously.


So in summary, I would rather have that short, crappy CC with which to better control my scenarios hand out CC immunity and sometimes maybe interupt someone, plug a choke point, or stop someone spamming and ability on me, than a meager 2 sec snare at the end.


Now, where I agree with you is that it should have its snare in the beginning of the animation. Exactly, cause this increases it's dmg and functionality.

Or like all other cast time abilities be fitted with a hard CC in the way of a 3 sec stun, or crystal frag/wrecking blow knock down (not back). I think there should be something on the back end of that ability and it shouldn't be a snare. (Minor Force, yes please. )But for ZoS to give Templars a tool that will make people fear Templars again... well that's a different story.

My ideal Biting Jabs would look as such:

Strike your enemy four times over 1 second, all strikes initiate a 50% snare for 2 seconds (no cooldown). Activating biting jabs gives you Minor Force for 10 seconds. Closest enemy takes +150% damage.

This lets expert hunter give us our 10% crit. Minor force for +12% crit dmg and snare on all hits. With this people would seriously reconsider attacking us in melee range in our "house".

caeliusstarbreaker

Haha "our house"

I would support those jabs.

Khivas_Carrick

Quick ideas for stanplar:

Rename Binding Javelin to Burning Javelin, have it leave a fire DoT and be based on Stamina to help both ranged and melee stamplars.

170% damage boost to Biting Jabs if it remains an AoE channel. Alternative would be to turn it into our own form of a Wrecking Blow so to speak.

Make Backlash crit, and make it pop off the second it reaches it's damage cap. The "buff" or "rework" or whatever you wanna call this *** is just that, ***, so get rid of it, seriously, it helps nobody.

Burning Light should have a doubled proc chance, making it 50% as opposed to 25%.

Crescent Sweep and all sweep ultimates are garbage, get rid of them. Replace it with a new Ultimate that works similar to Overload, but instead infuses our skills with holy energy, doing additional damage with each bit until we run out.

Make Solar Barrage stamina based and/or a single target instant strike with a DoT or a debuff or something.

All I got for right now.

hedna123b14_ESO

Templars got the biggest dps boost with the changes to CP since both stamina and magicka templars are all dot's and benefit from both of the cp stars...at least in PvE they will deal crazy damage.

joleda4ub17_ESO

AfkNinja wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

SadieJoan wrote: »

Poor Stamina Templars I have been hit hard as a magicka templar, but its even worse for stamina! Templars need some love I find it bizarre that there are no stamina morphs for hardly any of the key templar skills, particularly in healing. Surely, as a templar, there should be some sort of stamina morph to rushed ceremony or healing ritual...? It makes me feel like the class loses part of its identity somehow...

Completely agree! Every other class has way more stamina morphs and stuff that is worth investing into magicka for, even on a stamina build...

Jura23 wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

The Stamina Templar - an ideology
For me I have always imagined my Templar as a paladin or crusader, a heavy front line warrior able to stand his ground and smite his enemies with holy light and fire while providing buffs to his fellow team mates.

Btw. this is exactly the idea I had in mind when I selected Templar first time I logged into ESO. Spot on man.

*highfive*

Pretty much why we all picked Templar right? My theme was a sun wielding spartan style spear warrior and I love playing the class. But it's hard to feel the desire to play when every time I log in I'm hit with additional nerfs or just flat out ignored while other classes get great, thought out, new changes.


Edit: P.S. They need to add spear weapons to the game.

The game could use a new weapon skill line called Polearm. The weapons could be Long Spear and Halberd, and maybe a Staff. (Not quarterstaff.) That would give it piercing, slashing, and blunt damage types with bonuses just like 2H and DW. Polearms could have a slightly larger melee reach than the other weapons. For balance reasons in ESO, I wouldn't give Polearm the same defensive ability of 1HS. I would give it a little less offensive power than than 2H or DW, but not as low as 1HS. I could see Polearm having a hard taunt.

AfkNinja

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Templars got the biggest dps boost with the changes to CP since both stamina and magicka templars are all dot's and benefit from both of the cp stars...at least in PvE they will deal crazy damage.

Dragon Knights have the same bonus, Magicka DK can pump +DOT dmg and +magic/fire dmg. Keep in mind that although we can pump +dot dmg and +magic or +Phys damage to boost Jabs/Sweeps it does require losing points in something else. The CP cap still exists for now.


P.S. People can also double defend against it now too with -DOT dmg and -Magic dmg/-Phys dmg.

AtraisMachina

Zinaroth wrote: »

Disclaimer: This thread is aimed at Zenimax Online Studios and the developers in charge of class balancing. It will be focusing on the templar class with priority on stamina orientated builds, as those are currently suffering a lot. The thread will be very long, so please take your time reading it before responding to anything. I do not mean to neglect magicka orientated builds, but with the recent patch notes they seem like they will do just fine, I am however worried about how there wasn't a single change aimed specifically at stamina templars. I will try to adress this without hurting magicka templars. The thread will consist of three segments. In the first segment I will tag all the knowledgeable EU players I know play or know about staminat emplars to have them chime in, since this post was very much a collaberation where I also asked some of them for advice. I will also tag ZOS employees, and I will lay out my idea of what stamina templars should be capable of. In the second segment I will go through the patch note changes for templars one by one and comment on them. In the third segment I will summarize the good, the bad, and what wasn't touched on in the patch notes. In the fourth and last segment I will make my conclusion of what needs to happen further with the templar class in order for stamina templars to truely be good combatants on the play field in both PvE and PvP. Thank you for taking your time to read this thread and I hope if you're a fellow stamina player you will chime in and that if you're a ZOS employee you will atleast aknowledge the existance of this thread. Happy reading!

This a call to arms my fellow stamina templar brethren, now is our chance to sieze the opportunity and tell Zenimax what needs to happen with the stamina templars, and that it needs to happen before PTS is over! @Alcast @Mumyo @Husan @Morathras @Soris @BlackEar @Springt-Über-Zwerge @Joy_Division @AfkNinja @Cinbri @Jura23 @dodgehopper_ESO @SemiD4rkness @BalticBlues @AOECAPS @Essiaga

I also hope you developers and community managers chime in or at the very least aknowledge this thread, depending on who is the appropriate person for this entire thing! @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_KaiSchober @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_BrianWheeler @Wrobel

The Stamina Templar - an ideology
For me I have always imagined my Templar as a paladin or crusader, a heavy front line warrior able to stand his ground and smite his enemies with holy light and fire while providing buffs to his fellow team mates. A holy variation of the DK more focused on buffing himself and his allies where the DK is more focusing on debuffing his enemies. The templar should not be a hit and run class, it should be a class that can somewhat stand his ground, while still being mobile, like the DK. He fights and dies with his sword in the hand. In order to be able to achieve this, there are several things that needs to happen in this game, with the templar balancing, and this is what I will try to adress in the next part, hope you're with me this far.

Before the PTS patch notes hit it was appearent that Templars, both magicka and stamina, have been suffering from DPS in competetive PvE that couldn't match with the other classes. This might not be very appearent in a normal dungeon run, but for us hardcore trialists, it is.
Templars have been suffering under bad passives, especially when it comes to rescource management, an in detail comparison will appear later in this thread.
Templars have suffered from bad survivability outside spamming heals, something that wasn't even a thing for Stamina Templars. The stamina version of the class that was supposed to be THE healing class had the worst self healing in the game, this was a major issue.
Templars had a lot of bugs, especially for Stamina Templars the bug that made Burning Light not proc on shields has made PvP very tough for us against Magicka NBs and Magicka Sorc.
We have suffered from mobility issues, but only as a side effect of not being able to stand our ground.
Furthermore stamina templars have suffered from a bad option of class abilities; typically in PvP a Stamplar would use Biting Jabs, Purifying Ritual and Restoring Focus. In PvE Repentance would be worth slotting aswell because there were a lot of dead bodies, but not in PvP. Then there's Piercing Javeling, which until now has been really questionable in its usage since Biting Jabs would hand out free CC immunity aswell.
Dawns Wrath was a completely useless skill tree with the exception for the 4% reduced cost passive, likewise the Restoring Light tree had three abilities worth using but none of the passives were worth slotting.
Furthermore none of the ultimates were really worth using. Nova had its uses as a zerg busting ultimate, but that was about it, you'd be better off with Meteor in all aspects of PvE. The Rite of Passage healing ultimate is completely and utterly useless, sure it works as a panic button but so does Breath of Life, only people lacking knowledge would use this in any content, and then there's the Radial Sweep ulti whos damage and range is so bad that it is rendered useless aswell, often replaced with Dawnbreaker.
So there we have it; stamina templars were in disarray, benefiting from 3-4 class abilities and the same amount of passives, with none of their ultis working, no proper movement, CC, or utility, nothing that was worth spending magicka on, with sub-par DPS in PvE and bad rescource management and survival, and the worst self healing in the game and an armor buff that lasted only 8 seconds since noone could stand still in a rune in PvP with a 5 m diameter.

Before the patch notes hit I made a over over in the General Section of the forums called "What will happen to Templars with the patch? Place your bets!":
forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/244923/what-will-happen-to-templars-with-the-patch-place-your-bets/p1
This thread clearly shows the frustration the templar community and especially the stamina templar community was in.
But while the verdict on the patch notes have been hard over there I don't agree that it was all bad, there were a lot of good changes aswell, so let's get into the patch notes...

Thieves' Guild Templar Patch Notes

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Blazing Spear (Spear Shards morph): This morph now displays a hostile red telegraph if it is cast from enemy Templars.

Good for the enemy I guess. I would have preferred to see a change to this ability that would also benefit the Templar himself. Currently this ability has two purposes; spam it on several mobs as a means to do AoE damage as a magicka templar or to feed stamina to your group members. This ability currently holds no position in the arsenal of a stamina templar unless you play along another stamina player, in which case it will most likely be foregone for something else anyway. Have you considered granting the stamina return to both the guy who uses the synergy and the templar himself if he is stood within range of the synergy activation when it gets used? You would still need someone to synergise and it would benefit the templar himself aswell. This could be deemed overpowered but then the stamina return could be scaled down. Just trying to advocate a buff here that would move templars more towards sustainability for himself aswell rather than just being a buff and heal bot.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Focused Charge: This ability and its morphs are now more responsive, and will no longer cause you to become stuck in the charge animation.

I have not tested this myself but according to what I have seen and read this still has a major global cooldown, doesn't really touch stamina templars much so I won't go into too much detail with it here.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Piercing Javelin: Increased the range of this ability and its morphs to 28 meters from 20 meters.

Alright, good change in accordance with the ranged buff the other class CCs got. Still, as a stamina templar this is the only hard CC we get inside the class trees, whereas DKs have a really good arrange of CC abilities available, same with NBs and Sorcs. But a good change nevertheless, would however love to have some kind of AoE CC given to us, doesn't have to be hard CC either.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Puncturing Strikes: This ability and its morphs no longer knockback and apply crowd control immunity to the nearest enemy on the final hit; instead, they now snare that enemy by 70% for two seconds.

This has been a year under way and it is a very nice chance, I very much applaud this. We will now be able to hit more with this ability and make it viable in PvP again. I would very much have loved to see the snare proc on the first hit instead of the last hit though. I am surprised to see we didn't get the damage bonus back to 170% again as it was before 1.6. Currently it's at 140% and a main damage ability of both stamina and magicka templars in PvE. Templars are struggling a bit with the DPS as mentioned earlier so I think raising the damage on main target to 170% additional damage would be fair. This would amount to around a 10% increase of damage with this ability, so it is not like it would be a major buff in PvP either, but would help us catch up a bit in PvE.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Radial Sweep: Increased the radius of this ability and its morphs to 6 meters from 5 meters.

This is not enough. It will still be impossible to hit with, the range needs to be 8 or 9 meters if not more. Furthermore, the damage on this ability sucks! I know it has a defensive buff morph aswell, but it is simply not enough. You need to go tweak some more numbers on this one, it needs to be a viable alternative to Flawless Dawnbreaker, if not better since it is a class ultimate. It needs to do the same amount of damage or more, and please, make it physical damage.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Radiant Ward (Sun Shield morph): Increased the shield strength bonus from this morph’s shield to 6% per enemy hit from 5%.

Once again another lackluster change, what is this going to achieve? It will still be useless in PvP and in PvE it will be nothing more but an unwanted gimmicky survivability skill when fighting many opponents, in which case you're still better off healing yourself or killing stuff fast. You need to go back to the drawing board... Maybe it is a bad idea have Battle Fatigue affect abilities that scale off % health, just like Dragon Blood for the DK? This will simply not cut it.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Backlash: Increased the maximum damage limit for this ability and its morphs by 25%, but decreased their damage stored amount by 66%. In addition, this ability and its morphs can no longer be reflected.

So it stores damage slower but hits harder in the end or what? Not sure what this means, but I don't see anything in here that makes this ability worth using or even slotting again. Not for burst in PvP and not for DPS in PvE. Back to the drawing board. Maybe replace this ability with an AoE CC? Bring back a changed version of Blinding Flashes? Templars needs this a lot.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Eclipse:
[*]This ability and the Total Dark morph can now reflect ranged physical projectiles back to the enemy, in addition to spell projectiles.
[*]Revised the tooltips for this ability and the Total Dark morph to indicate that the area damage effect is separate from the self-reflect effect, and can be applied to a CC-immune target.
[*]Fixed an issue where this ability and the Total Dark morph could reflect snares from ground-placed ticking abilities, such as Caltrops or Ash Cloud, and cause you to move at extremely high speeds.

This ability will be just as useless before aslong as it can be CC broken, even if the damage still happens. It needs to get the DK treathment; meaning it needs to be a self buff instead of something applied to target. Now I am totally onboard with class diversity, and not giving all classes the same tools. But part of the reason DKs can survive a lot in PvP and stand their ground is because of their Dragon Scales reflect; giving templars something simular would not be a bad idea.
I propose changing this to a self buff that absorbs 4 projectiles instead of reflecting them like the DK. Upon absorbing the fourth projectile the templar will explode in a holy nova in a 10m radius dealing damage to targets within range in accordance to 30% of the projectile damage absorbed and healing friendlies for the same amount. This would go great in line with what the templar is and if it is a bit too strong or weak the number could be tweaked. Anyway this is just a suggestion I am sure someone else could brain storm something cooler, but it is tools like this that we stamina templars need. Something worth spending magicka on over and over again and that helps us survive outnumbered fights.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Enduring Rays:
[*]This passive ability now only increases the duration of the Sun Fire, Eclipse, and Nova abilities.
[*]Increased this passive ability’s bonus to 15/30% more duration at Ranks I/II from 10/20%.

So what you're basically saying is that Radiant Oppression/Radiant Glory are just afterthoughts and instead of changing this passive into something benefitting all abilities you're just removing it? How about making it reduce the channel time but remaining the same amount of ticks? Also; in an effort to make stamina templars more viable how about we get a stamina morph of this? Would certainly give us more tools at our disposal.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Nova:
[*]Reduced the effects and visual light intensity for this ability and its morphs.
[*]Increased the damage from the Supernova and Gravity Crush synergies by 16%.
[*]Increased the activation range for the Supernova and Gravity Crush synergies to 3.5 meters from 2.5 meters.

These are all good changes but I don't see them making Nova worth more than it already is. We will still require another target for the full potential of this ability (an recurring theme throughout the templar class; relying on other people to reach full potential and bad synergy with yourself), and I don't see it takeing over Meteor's position. So it remains a zerg buster ability, fair enough.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Radiant Destruction: Fixed an issue where the execute bonus damage from this ability would not apply if multiple Templars were channeling these abilities on the same target.

Good good, as mentioned above, a stamina morph would be nice.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Solar Flare: Increased the damage for this ability and the Dark Flare morph by 12%. The damage of the Solar Barrage morph remains unchanged.

Why buff Dark Flare but not change Solar Barrage? Solar Barrage is so bad it was never used, atleast some people used Dark Flare for the healing debuff. You need to rethink this change and most like buff Solar Barrage or make it into something else so it is worth using. Now Dark Flare will be more viable for damage, cool, but Solar Barrage will still remain unused for everyone.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Unstable Core (Eclipse morph): Increased the area damage when the effect ends by 50% and can be placed on an unlimited amount of targets, but it no longer reflects single target spells back to the enemy.

So it is basically a timed bomb when placed on the enemy? Interesting. Still currently on my DPS geared magicka templar it does 4500 damage, with this patch it will be 6750 damage, and then cut that in half for PvP. It isn't a lot of damage. I think you could've easily given it a 100% increase in damage. Also as I said above, this entire skills needs rework to buff yourself instead. But one morph could be a self reflect/absorb and the other this one, when you increase its damage.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Vampire’s Bane (Sun Fire morph): Increased the damage over time duration for this morph to 9 seconds from 7 seconds.

Interesting, might make it worth using in a DPS rotation. Doubt it, but we will see. Would you consider making the other morph stamina based? Gives stamina templars a decent class based DoT effect.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Breath of Life (Rushed Ceremony morph): This morph now only fires one additional secondary heal, previously two heals.

For many people this is a big no-go but I actually think it is a good change. I have long advocated for tuning down templars as healers to make room for other classes as healers, and in return boosting our self-sustainability. I see what you're trying to achieve here and I agree with the sentiment. But we're not quite there for stamina templars atleast, eventhough this change didn't affects us at all.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Cleansing Ritual:
[*]Increased the healing from the Purify synergy from this ability and its morphs by 12%.
[*]Fixed an issue where this ability and its morphs could be used to cleanse projectiles that were mid-flight. It now matches the behavior of the Purge ability.

Too bad I can't purify incoming Meteors anymore but I understand the change.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Focused Healing: This passive ability now grants you the Major Mending buff while standing in your own Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus, or Rite of Passage area effects and for up to 2/4 seconds after leaving them at Ranks I/II, instead of granting you 15/30% more healing to allies standing in your own Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus, or Rite of Passage.

Finally! It never made much sense that Stamina DKs had more self healing through their own Major Mending buff, when templars were supposed to be the class with the best self healing available. Very good change! One thing though; I think it should give you Major Mending aslong as you're AFFECTED by Cleansing Ritual or Rune Focus, reason for the different wording will appear below under the Focus changes.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Healing Ritual: Reduced the cast time for this ability and its morphs by 25%, and reduced the healing done by 25%.

This ability will still be useless. We don't really need this in our arsenal anyway, Healing Springs from Restoration Staff will always be a better option. Back to the drawing board, maybe give us some proper self buff or AoE CC tool instead?

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Radiant Aura (Restoring Aura morph): This morph now grants you and your allies the Major Intellect buff upon activation, as well as having an increased radius as a morph effect.

We still get Major Intellect from potions aswell and seeing as this won't stack it will still be just as useless as before. Back to the drawing board!

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Rite of Passage: In order to prevent visual issues or issues where the channel would end prematurely, this ability and its morphs can no longer be cast in mid-air.

Yeah, like... Are you kidding me? Most useless ultimate in the game and this is all you had for it? Only unknowledgeable players will ever slot this ultimate. It needs to change! I understand you want it to be some kind of healing or survivability, fair enough. How about changing it to healing yourself and targets around you and granting you all some rescources back, including yourself? This way it could become a sustain ultimate. Or it could be like a protective bubble making you immunte to all harmful effects for 5 seconds and granting rescources back? Something else than just a healing panic button. Breath of Life spam is currently more effective than this.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Restoring Focus (Rune Focus morph): This morph now grants you the Minor Protection buff, in addition to granting the Minor Vitality buff as a morph effect.
[*]Rune Focus: Revised the tooltips for this ability and its morphs to indicate that the Major Ward and Major Resolve buffs will stick to you for 8 seconds after leaving the rune, while the morph effects of Channeled Focus and Restoring Focus require you to remain in the rune at all times.

Added bonus is always nice, not sure it was that needed but we will take it!
Now here comes the biggest problem; mobility.
Rune Focus is now a really really nice self buff; we get Major Ward, Major Resolve, Major Mending and Minor Protection along with either Minor Mending or magicka return depending on the morph.
One big issue though; we have to stay within the run!
Now this is not a problem in PvE, but in PvP we have to move around! We are now the only class without a mobility tool or a speed buff, since you just granted DKs Major Expidition on a Chain morph. That is okay, but you cannot force us to, on top of that, stand still in a rune. Sure the buff sticks for 8 seconds when we leave and the Major Mending for 4 seconds, but this is not good enough! Noone uses this in their main bar, that means we need to weapon swap every 5-6 seconds to reapply it or move back into the rune to reapply the effect. I understand you don't want the templars to be a class that is all over the place like NBs and Sorc, but you're forcing us to stay put or be very stationary! NBs get their armor buffs passively when using their main damage ability, DKs get a 20 second duration with secondary effects, and so do Sorcs!
For the love of everything Tamrielic ZOS, allow this self buff to stick ON us for 20 seconds aswell along with the self buffs that follow with them. It is a much needed change and compared to all the cool utility and self buffs via passives the other classes are getting this is an absolute must!
This is my single biggest concern right now, make it viable for us to move around!
Remove the requirement of standing inside a small ground placed circle, allow it to become a true self buff that sticks to our characters, thank you!

The good:
- Snare on Puncturing Strikes instead granting target free CC immunity

- Major Mending through our Purify and Rune

- Bug fixes with some major abilities that didn't affect stamina templars though

- Minor buffs like Minor Protection on Rune etc, nothing big though but still nice

The bad:
- Class ultimates need a second looks; especially the ones in the Aedric Spear and Restoring Light skill trees are still not up to scratch

- Eclipse needs a second look; it will still not be worth using in PvP simply because it can just be CC broken, give it the DK treatment

- Sun Shield will still be worthless, it needs to possible not be hit by Battle Fatigue

- No changes aimed particularly at making stamina more viable; would like to see more stamina morphs

What wasn't touched upon:
- Burning Light; hidden CD and lack of procs on shields and damage type
In this thread on page 5 at the bottom: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/234362/templar-issues-thread/p5
Gina posts the following: "Burning Light – The proc chance appears to be lower than 25% •There’s currently a half-second cooldown on this ability so when
using a fast attack, such as Puncturing Strikes, it will not proc twice in a row. Also note that we’ve balanced the DPS of these abilities with this in mind."
What happened to this? Was it forgotten? We still need clearenceon whether the CD was removed or not.
Burning Light will still not proc on shields, this is a major issue in both PvE and PvP since a large part of our damage comes from this passive, we need
clearence!
Also with this proc beinc such a big part of our damage I don't understand why it is only magick damage, in my opinion it should abide to the damage
type of the aedric spear ability used which it procs from, this would make stamina templars even more capable at DPS!

- Puncturing Stikes; damage and morphs
As templars and especially stamina templars are currently struggling to keep up in PvE and this is our main damage ability it should be reverted back to 170%
additional damage on main target instead of 140%. That is approxemately a 10% increase in damage and won't make a world of difference in PvP, but it will in
PvE. I understand this ability does the most damage in the game per ability, but it is also a channel, so it needs to hit hard!
There is a lot of discrepancy between the morphs of this ability. The magicka version has a major health return morph which is absolutely awesome while the
stamine version gives extra crit. While the crit is really nice wouldn't it also be fair if the stamina version returned a bit of health? Where the magicka version
gives 40% health back maybe the stamina version could give 20%? This would certainly help stamina templars a lot in PvE content where staying alive while also
dealing damage can be a bit tough and would make a lot of sense considering we're a self healing class. In comparison the Surprise Attack from NBs also do A
LOT of things for them so I don't think this is a totally unfair change.

- Major Spell/Weapon Power
Templars are now the only class that get neither of those where other classes gets served them for nothing, is this intended or an oversight? I am fine with this
if you implement some of the other buffs suggested here but thought it was worth mentioning.

- Mobility; Rune Focus
Besides not getting Major Spell/Weapon Damage buffs Templars are now also the only class without any kind of movement option in either speed buffs or
movement utility. That is understandable, but you need to make Rune Focus a 100% self buffs to not lock Templars down in a certain position completely, we
need to be allowed to move around, and preferably all the self buffs that comes with Rune Focus should stick on us when moving around aswell. You cannot be
serious if you want us to weapon swap and renew a buff every 8 second with the current way PvP is being played, and yes I know it can be placed on main bar
aswell, but we all know that self buffs have no room on your damage bar, it would not be advantageous.

- Rescource Management; active abilities and passive abilities
Before I get too much into this, since it is a rather big deal I would like to do a class comparison of the tools available for each class to manage HIS OWN
rescources and maintain them, both through passives and active abilities. For the sake of simplicity I have excluded anything that has to do with health and
health regen since here we're more concerned about stamina and magicka.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Dragonknight:
7x ultimate cost magicka/stamina restored
2% stamina return when activating Earthen Heart ability
Draw Essence - restores magicka per enemy hit

Nightblade:
1848 magicka over 6 seconds when killing target with class execute
15% increased stamina/magicka recovery
8% increased magicka with Siphoning ability slotted
Siphonin Attacks - Restore 1k magicka and stamina on each basic attack and 10% chance of restoring 2k magicka and stamina per basic ability hit

Sorcerer:
5% reduced magicka/stamina cost
15% reduced ultimate cost
10% increased magicka recovery
20% increased stamina recovery with Daedric Summoning ability slotted
10% increased magicka regeneration with Restoring Twillight slotted (Minor Intellect)
5% max magicka/stamina with Bound Armor slotted
Dark Exchange - change stamina into health/magicka or magicka into health/stamina

Templar:
4% reduced magicka/stamina/ultimate cost
10% increased magicka/stamina regeneration (Minor Intellect and Minor Endurance)
Repentance - sucks health/stamina out of corpses
Channeled Focus - 120 magicka every 0.5 seconds
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

It quickly becomes very appearent that Nigblades and Sorcerers have the best deals.
Sorcerers have the best passives for sustaining magicka/stamina, on the other hand their active ability is not worth using.
Nightblades have som good passives for sustaining aswell, but their active ability is what really makes them the kings of managing rescources at the moment.
On top of this both classes have really awesome damage passives, but I won't go into detail on those here since we are talking about sustain.
Next we have the Dragonknights, these are a little tricky to judge because their passives aren't straight up bonuses, but when first a Dragonknight get going with some great ultimate generation they will be popping ultimates fairly often, and most times it will be like popping a tri-stat potion. It is hard to put a number on, but they are easily up to scratch when it comes to managing rescources, atleast on par with the Sorcerer. Their activated ability isn't worth it really but thought I should mention it anyway.
Then we have the Templar; 4% reduced cost is what they could amount to... Unless you play magicka in which you have Channeled Focus which is a really good ability aswell - but once again you need to stand still. Repentance gives us Minor Intellect and Endurance when slotted - here it is worth nothing that it is not just a 10% increase, so it won't stack with other minor buffs of the same kind. Anyway Repentance is good in PvE, but you wouldn't have it on main bar so you would never benefit from this, and in PvP it's the same story, only it is debatable whether you should slot it at all. On top of all this Templars have the highest base cost abilities in the game.

So the verdict is that if you play stamina once again rolling Templar is the worst choise when it comes to managing rescources, something needs to be done about this ZOS!

I would propose getting rid of the Master Ritualist passive in the Restoring Light tree; currently it is a resurrection passive and completely useless for the Templar and his allies outside stacking it with Kagrenac armor and almost instantly ressing people, which is also an issue. Change this passive into some stamina and magicka return or whatever, just something to get us up to scratch!

I also seriously propose changing the behaviour from Repentance to maybe be usable on living targets instead or aswell and just add less rescources or something.

Templars and especially stamina templars needs some help in this area, please get on it!

In regards to damage passives across all four classes that is a bit harder to judge but to me it seems fairly balanced in terms of passives, if you also take into account the class abilities.

The Final Verdict and Conclusion

This is kind of a TL;DR version but in order to understand these conclusions you have to read the rest of the post, so if you haven't, please do!

In order for Stamina Templar to truely be worth playing again you need to do the following, at the very MINIMUM, in addition to the changes you already made:

- Puncturing Strikes and its morphs back to 170% additional damage on main target
- Fix Burning Light hidden cooldown and the proccing on shields
- Further buffs to class ultimates; see suggestions above!
- Better rescource manage (stamina/magicka) through passives; see suggestions above!
- Make Eclipse a self buff that absorbs/reflects instead of a targeted effect; see suggestion above!
- Sun Shield should not be affected by Battle Fatigue and possible recieve more buffs
- See if you can add more stamina morphs; other classes have them; see suggestions above!
- Make sure you make Rune Focus and morphs self buffs instead of ground targeted effects, do not lock us down into one position; see suggestion above!

I hope the people I tagged and possibly others will chime in for their feedback on stamina templars now, and if you have any remarks to what I have written feel free to give them now. I must ask people to refrain from quoting the entire thing, because that will be very annoying for ZOS if/when they see this post.

To ZOS I would like to extend my thanks for making this game, despite all my QQ I am having a lot of fun and I am very passionate about my class so I hope you will atleast aknowledge this thread and tell me here and hopefully take of my suggestions in make the appropriate changes before PTS is over.

To all the people I have discussed this with over the last day since patch notes hit and before that, including some of the people I quoted at the top of the page, I just want to say thanks for the discussions and I hope you will chime in and let ZOS know what needs to be done.

Thank you everyone for reading!

I disagree with your prespective on backlash and it pol morph but everything else is on par.

In all honesty I feel ashamed when playing my stamp. Verbal abuse and constant group removal is very embarassing. I am pretty decent at this game and i can pull my weight in properlly rolled groups, but the fact is in comparison to all the other class rolls we just suck.

Stamplers need some MAJOR lovin here soon.

AfkNinja

I am liking this patch a lot, healing is so much better on Stamplar now, however Templar still needs skill bug fixes, passive tweaks and a fix for our shield.