Official Feedback Thread for Dragonknights

EnOeZ

Cinbri wrote: »

How about change Take Flight physical damage to flame damage?

No.

Stam DKs have so few ultimate options already.
Or make all ultimates do "ultimate damage" which scales and uses highest/best stat features.

leepalmer95

Cinbri wrote: »

LorDrek wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

How about change Take Flight physical damage to flame damage?

Hahaha only one ultimate with physical dmg, you change hahahaha, ok change standart to physical dmg hahaha, crazy

I asked to change only one of the mophs for elemental damage, not entire ultimate.

You have so many options as a magicka build, dawnbreaker/standard/meteor etc...

Derra

Why not replace the minor spell resist buff on the reflect morph with 4s of major expedition?

Ishammael

Derra wrote: »

Why not replace the minor spell resist buff on the reflect morph with 4s of major expedition?

OH ZOS PLEASE!!!!!!

EDIT: Wings will make me fly!! I can just see DKs flapping their way across Cyrodiil. It would be beautiful.

Xeven

Ishammael wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Why not replace the minor spell resist buff on the reflect morph with 4s of major expedition?

OH ZOS PLEASE!!!!!!

EDIT: Wings will make me fly!! I can just see DKs flapping their way across Cyrodiil. It would be beautiful.

They already do that.

Purdomination33

Why am I reading so much about "Stam DK's in a good place?" In all reality they are not in a good place at all. Stamina based weapons are...it has nothing to do with a DragonKnight. Right now a Stamina DK is nothing more than a 'Stamina based Character categorized as DragonKnight'. While a Magicka DK is a Sorc's infant brother. Even the name is misleading, why would the Knight be a Magick based character anyway?

The way I see it, DK's are stuck with no identity. Everything they do is watered down. Even with the new 're-balance' Magicka DK's will just be slightly better than they are today which means almost, but not quite, worth using. Stamina DK's will still be "choose weapon skills XYZ to go along with that one cool Ultimate". A Sorc can tank better than a freaking DK so even that's out.

"Oh you want to be Stamina based. Here are two whole skills...hope you can stay alive for 30 seconds while your opponent slowly heats up. But to help you stay alive all your shields will be Magicka based so....yea...crap, that's not going to work out well is it?" But once every 30 seconds you can be useful with an Ultimate!

In Cyrodil I have been getting hit by 10k-15k+ Sorc abilities (C. Frags, Minefield, Curse, Overload) and rapid fire 8k+ NB abilities (we all know which ones) with almost every death. What is the hardest single non-ultimate DK ability? It is so sad, I will get killed by a group, the recap will read: 13k Crystal Frag and 2x 8K Surprise Attacks and this poor little 1.5k Whip or 2.5k Unstable Flame in the mix. Such cute little numbers! Hell standard Sorc abilities hit harder than our best and only DPS ability, Take Flight.

See you all when we re-up as sexy Sorceress's!! <-is that a word?

AddictionX

Purdomination33 wrote: »

Why am I reading so much about "Stam DK's in a good place?" In all reality they are not in a good place at all. Stamina based weapons are...it has nothing to do with a DragonKnight. Right now a Stamina DK is nothing more than a 'Stamina based Character categorized as DragonKnight'. While a Magicka DK is a Sorc's infant brother. Even the name is misleading, why would the Knight be a Magick based character anyway?

The way I see it, DK's are stuck with no identity. Everything they do is watered down. Even with the new 're-balance' Magicka DK's will just be slightly better than they are today which means almost, but not quite, worth using. Stamina DK's will still be "choose weapon skills XYZ to go along with that one cool Ultimate". A Sorc can tank better than a freaking DK so even that's out.

"Oh you want to be Stamina based. Here are two whole skills...hope you can stay alive for 30 seconds while your opponent slowly heats up. But to help you stay alive all your shields will be Magicka based so....yea...crap, that's not going to work out well is it?" But once every 30 seconds you can be useful with an Ultimate!

In Cyrodil I have been getting hit by 10k-15k+ Sorc abilities (C. Frags, Minefield, Curse, Overload) and rapid fire 8k+ NB abilities (we all know which ones) with almost every death. What is the hardest single non-ultimate DK ability? It is so sad, I will get killed by a group, the recap will read: 13k Crystal Frag and 2x 8K Surprise Attacks and this poor little 1.5k Whip or 2.5k Unstable Flame in the mix. Such cute little numbers! Hell standard Sorc abilities hit harder than our best and only DPS ability, Take Flight.

See you all when we re-up as sexy Sorceress's!! <-is that a word?

Oh my god ... These people are making it seem like we're kings of pvp! We we're forced to use everything in the game from potions to NON CLASS SKILLS to make ourselves compete with the top more competitive players but the truth is we as a class are lesser we have such major disadvantages.

We're barely hanging on to our competitive viability we took 2 nerfs Scales, and igneous... both of which we are forced to run because of the Super high dps of a sorc, and igneous because of its utility even though its a crap shield it still helped Stamina DK stay alive one hit longer and make the next attack non-crit SO when the NB decides to cloak x10 in a battle and WB you out of stealth you can survive the first hit enough to be able to get hit a 2nd time and still recover as we get ambushed spammed trying to pick myself up the ground because one way or another I refuse to accept the unbalance... I will continue fighting because thats what at the core of our class why I choose it, oh the satisfaction from killing anything when you know you shouldnt have won if he played as well as you did... as well as help us survive the prox det that could actually just about 1 shot a player making that hit not crit.

I would MUCH RATHER RUN another DK skill to help me have as high dps as a sorc or nb, but the reality with out those two things Stamina DK dps wont be as competitive...

I almost felt like i was the only one arguing THIS VERY POINT you are making. THANK YOU for pointing this out because thats what ive been trying to point out SINCE THIS THREAD WAS CREATED...

Its almost sad that even Magicka DKs want to keep the stamina DK down.... WE"RE THE SAME DAMN CLASS!

when i selected the DK was because i wanted to be a melee style specialist... NOT A 2 HANDED WEAPON specialist accented by a few DK skills, oh and reflect...

Jesh

Stam DK DD here.
I have to agree with @Purdomination33, I get kind of demoralized playing my stam DK, because it just feels like a sort of weapons specialist, which is fine, but a little bland. DKs in general really need something that hits HARD (like frags, NB combos surprise att/lotus fan, new Templar dark flare). Because what do we have right now? I have no answer. I would like to see inferno, inhale (not tested yet on pts), and ash cloud buffed a little bit: these are our final skill line abilities, but they feel like a bit of a let down (ash cloud in particular).

Elevation pb with chains - forget about elevation, just get rid of it, it is still SUPER buggy with this skill. It makes no sense anyways: the ability is a chain that pulls, surely it can pull up or down? If no, why not? Can someone explain how this ability makes sense with elevation limits? It just doesn't. If you really have to have elevation limits, make them as high as possible. But in my opinion: let DKs chain people off walls if they are close enough (this wouldn't be easy anyways), or even get pulled to them, it adds gameplay complexity and its just fun (personally I think Werewolves should be able to scale the walls too). But chains with elevation continues to be a problem, as well as the immunity after the pull. Its just not good enough.

Other things I feel like DKs are still lacking on pts:

1. a class execute
2. another range class ability
3. obsidian shield and its morphs should provide a larger damage shield, at least to the caster
4. dragon's blood - i can't justify putting this on my bar. This needs to be changed to be made more viable.

Just my opinion and feedback.

Glory

Purdomination33 wrote: »

Why am I reading so much about "Stam DK's in a good place?" In all reality they are not in a good place at all. Stamina based weapons are...it has nothing to do with a DragonKnight. Right now a Stamina DK is nothing more than a 'Stamina based Character categorized as DragonKnight'. While a Magicka DK is a Sorc's infant brother. Even the name is misleading, why would the Knight be a Magick based character anyway?

The way I see it, DK's are stuck with no identity. Everything they do is watered down. Even with the new 're-balance' Magicka DK's will just be slightly better than they are today which means almost, but not quite, worth using. Stamina DK's will still be "choose weapon skills XYZ to go along with that one cool Ultimate". A Sorc can tank better than a freaking DK so even that's out.

"Oh you want to be Stamina based. Here are two whole skills...hope you can stay alive for 30 seconds while your opponent slowly heats up. But to help you stay alive all your shields will be Magicka based so....yea...crap, that's not going to work out well is it?" But once every 30 seconds you can be useful with an Ultimate!

In Cyrodil I have been getting hit by 10k-15k+ Sorc abilities (C. Frags, Minefield, Curse, Overload) and rapid fire 8k+ NB abilities (we all know which ones) with almost every death. What is the hardest single non-ultimate DK ability? It is so sad, I will get killed by a group, the recap will read: 13k Crystal Frag and 2x 8K Surprise Attacks and this poor little 1.5k Whip or 2.5k Unstable Flame in the mix. Such cute little numbers! Hell standard Sorc abilities hit harder than our best and only DPS ability, Take Flight.

See you all when we re-up as sexy Sorceress's!! <-is that a word?

The reason that many say stam DK are in a solid place is because their class skills and passives (igneous shield+5% stam return, ferocious leap, unstable flame, battle roar, etc.) all have a very potent role in the building of stamina DK. I understand that there is not a direct damage stamina skill available in the DK lines, but there are a nice mixture of complimentary skills/passives (DoTs from stamina, magicka buff dumps, ultimates).

Side note: I would love to give up a magicka skill or two that I don't use (flame of oblivion) to help the stamina skill demand, if it means that I could get more magicka based weapon skills that actually contribute besides just crushing shock!

xarguideb17_ESO

I used to play stamina DK. The only reason for switching to magicka was, I couldn't use whip. I really like whip. It just looks cool :-)
Otherwise stam DK is nice. You can be an awesome ganker, the take flight ult is great for burst combos and stam has the best non-templar heal in the game - vigor. You also get to use executes and as a bow user get major expedition. Weapon skill lines provide excellent choices of gap closers.
All in all I feel stam DK is still in a better place than magicka DK even after the current state of this patch. There is just fewer class skills to choose from.
Mag DK-s biggest problem is lack of burst.
I'll probably switch back to stamina when magicka version gets boring.

AddictionX

ebethke_ESO wrote: »

Purdomination33 wrote: »

Why am I reading so much about "Stam DK's in a good place?" In all reality they are not in a good place at all. Stamina based weapons are...it has nothing to do with a DragonKnight. Right now a Stamina DK is nothing more than a 'Stamina based Character categorized as DragonKnight'. While a Magicka DK is a Sorc's infant brother. Even the name is misleading, why would the Knight be a Magick based character anyway?

The way I see it, DK's are stuck with no identity. Everything they do is watered down. Even with the new 're-balance' Magicka DK's will just be slightly better than they are today which means almost, but not quite, worth using. Stamina DK's will still be "choose weapon skills XYZ to go along with that one cool Ultimate". A Sorc can tank better than a freaking DK so even that's out.

"Oh you want to be Stamina based. Here are two whole skills...hope you can stay alive for 30 seconds while your opponent slowly heats up. But to help you stay alive all your shields will be Magicka based so....yea...crap, that's not going to work out well is it?" But once every 30 seconds you can be useful with an Ultimate!

In Cyrodil I have been getting hit by 10k-15k+ Sorc abilities (C. Frags, Minefield, Curse, Overload) and rapid fire 8k+ NB abilities (we all know which ones) with almost every death. What is the hardest single non-ultimate DK ability? It is so sad, I will get killed by a group, the recap will read: 13k Crystal Frag and 2x 8K Surprise Attacks and this poor little 1.5k Whip or 2.5k Unstable Flame in the mix. Such cute little numbers! Hell standard Sorc abilities hit harder than our best and only DPS ability, Take Flight.

See you all when we re-up as sexy Sorceress's!! <-is that a word?

The reason that many say stam DK are in a solid place is because their class skills and passives (igneous shield+5% stam return, ferocious leap, unstable flame, battle roar, etc.) all have a very potent role in the building of stamina DK. I understand that there is not a direct damage stamina skill available in the DK lines, but there are a nice mixture of complimentary skills/passives (DoTs from stamina, magicka buff dumps, ultimates).

Side note: I would love to give up a magicka skill or two that I don't use (flame of oblivion) to help the stamina skill demand, if it means that I could get more magicka based weapon skills that actually contribute besides just crushing shock!

I understand but i try to help those understand that the 5 percent stamina return on earthen heart on a 9k stamina pool is 15 percent stamina so if you have 23k stamina thats 3k or 30k thats 4.5k, its in the same boat as our igneous shield scaling of max health... besides its not like you see us spamming earthen heart abilities to give us back stamina we have to save our magicka because its much better used as utility than the 5 percent which isnt noticeable ... at most we could only cast 3...

Battle roar- helps but its a one trick pony... its main uses is with corrosive armor helps us survive the massive burst, the spam-able version comparable to this is Cloak. But instead of letting us escape, it helps me stand my ground like i want only... it cost 200 ultimate, and it takes a while to build that up.

Purdomination33

I don't mean to compare Stamina vs Magicka DK. Like @AddictionX mentioned it's the same class.

Super cheesy way of saying this but "What is the essence of a DragonKnight in today's ESO?" Where are the developers trying to go with this class? Right now I get the feeling the original road map was interrupted early on and they have had trouble getting back on track.

So when starting out you look at the classes. What do you see in a DragonKnight's arsenal? Shields, Crowd Control, Damage over Time abilities...no ranged abilities. Clearly you think this is a melee style Tank class. Great, sounds fun let's roll! Those abilities are probably Stamina based since their obvious weapons of choice have to be melee weapons like 2H, S/B & dual wield. All Stamina based weapons. Woah, now wait a minute, this doesn't make sense. All their class skills are Magicka based?!? Where do I go from here??? Do I just go up to dungeon bosses or players in Cyrodil and whack em' with a Magic stick or something?

From the outset your options are simply counter intuitive.

What we are left with as a result is a class who is merely mediocre in several areas. This becomes especially clear n Cyrodil. The burst isn't there so you have to sustain. But you can't block and sustain. Wearing heavy armor doesn't help much because you will be too weak to actually kill someone. Your CC's and shields are Magicka based so they are difficult to sustain. CC's are easily broken anyway. But no Magicka DK ability can hit worth a crap so those are out. I can't really move much so I'm a sitting duck spending tons of resources just trying to get a visual on that freaking NB. Damn man, just got to hope the situation is perfect I can use my ultimate at least 1x to kill this guy!....oh wait it's a Sorc, his health didn't budge...nope NB, I can't see him so for some reason that means he cannot be damaged (obviously NB's are multi-dimensional beings, nothing else explains this phenomena). Where my Zerg at...I'm awesome in 25 (us) vs 10 (them) Zergs!!!!

The passives are OK but let's be honest, when was the last time you were in the middle of a fight and said "oh damn, that slight % based passive is so sick!" Every other class has s similar type return in their passives.

In closing...Zenimax needs to provide us with an argument as to why a new player SHOULD be a DragonKnight. Because right now in my book, it's the only class that cannot point to something and say "I want to be a DK so I can excel at __________ because no other class can do ________ as well as a DK".

Lokov

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for the Dragonknight. Please let us know how you feel about the changes we made to this class, if you ran into any bugs, and any other feedback you'd like to give.

Didnt find any threads about is, so let it be here...
It is a good decision to move magic damage to elemental expert, but its only power up sorcs (again) and no benefits for DK.
In this way sorc got bonus to all of his damage types only from elemental expert, but DK now need more champion points to show themselves. Cuz DOT damage is somewhere far far away in thaumaturge )) And as we know DOTs is a very big part of DK's damage.

My offer is split DOTs with magic / elemental and physical damage.
Scaled on max magicka from thaumaturge to elemental expert / spell erosion or elfborn
Scaled on stamina move their damage from thaumaturge to mighty / piercing or precise strikes
What to do with left thaumaturge? Still dont know, need to think about it.
Perhaps we have to make with it same things like with hardy and add something new. Maybe something like "increased time of your buffs" or something else.

Thank you.

D0ntevenL1ft

Make a DK deal some more damage with its own class skills. Solved.

AddictionX

Purdomination33 wrote: »

I don't mean to compare Stamina vs Magicka DK. Like @AddictionX mentioned it's the same class.

Super cheesy way of saying this but "What is the essence of a DragonKnight in today's ESO?" Where are the developers trying to go with this class? Right now I get the feeling the original road map was interrupted early on and they have had trouble getting back on track.

So when starting out you look at the classes. What do you see in a DragonKnight's arsenal? Shields, Crowd Control, Damage over Time abilities...no ranged abilities. Clearly you think this is a melee style Tank class. Great, sounds fun let's roll! Those abilities are probably Stamina based since their obvious weapons of choice have to be melee weapons like 2H, S/B & dual wield. All Stamina based weapons. Woah, now wait a minute, this doesn't make sense. All their class skills are Magicka based?!? Where do I go from here??? Do I just go up to dungeon bosses or players in Cyrodil and whack em' with a Magic stick or something?

From the outset your options are simply counter intuitive.

What we are left with as a result is a class who is merely mediocre in several areas. This becomes especially clear n Cyrodil. The burst isn't there so you have to sustain. But you can't block and sustain. Wearing heavy armor doesn't help much because you will be too weak to actually kill someone. Your CC's and shields are Magicka based so they are difficult to sustain. CC's are easily broken anyway. But no Magicka DK ability can hit worth a crap so those are out. I can't really move much so I'm a sitting duck spending tons of resources just trying to get a visual on that freaking NB. Damn man, just got to hope the situation is perfect I can use my ultimate at least 1x to kill this guy!....oh wait it's a Sorc, his health didn't budge...nope NB, I can't see him so for some reason that means he cannot be damaged (obviously NB's are multi-dimensional beings, nothing else explains this phenomena). Where my Zerg at...I'm awesome in 25 (us) vs 10 (them) Zergs!!!!

The passives are OK but let's be honest, when was the last time you were in the middle of a fight and said "oh damn, that slight % based passive is so sick!" Every other class has s similar type return in their passives.

In closing...Zenimax needs to provide us with an argument as to why a new player SHOULD be a DragonKnight. Because right now in my book, it's the only class that cannot point to something and say "I want to be a DK so I can excel at __________ because no other class can do ________ as well as a DK".

Exactly!

The majority of new players coming in from other mmos choose DK because of its close range combat style!

They choose it TOO TANK, and then there is people who choose this class because if it has a tank side to it then there must also be a DPS side too it, Whats a naturally tanky class when it throws away its (heavy armor lol) It becomes a BERSERKER who doesnt care about dying just unleashing on some ones @$$ while they run from me and if they die in the middle of a zerg while killing them so be it, you respawn anyways... Do it again!

So when i first saw the skills I thought well if they are all magicka cost and scale off magicka, even though i didnt choose a damn sorc... they must! they MUST have amazing synergy with weapons and allow me to do things with these weapons NO other class can do! How wrong i was.... Its like the weapons you use define what you are, im a DK on the screen but we bearly dont really use class skills. There are so many other skills that are not in my class that if it wasnt for me desperately trying to play with the 2 stamina morphs, one which is weakly viable unstable flames the other .... i wont even speak on it.

Also because we are close ranged combat style I was expecting most of my skills to either have a stamina morph to them or some synergy like molten armaments to turn my weapon into fire, or stone fist allowing my fist to turn into stone to punch the crap out of things. Instead i get to sling mud at some one that knocks them down and cost 3k magic...

I never liked whip, but i do like the idea behind chains... too bad i cant use it... and inferno sounds like you BURN IN FLAMES like an aura!

Therium104

Lol. You have to laugh. Pvp has become entirely centered around burst but the DK have no class skills that support this play style. It gets even more surreal when you consider DK has less survivability than the other classes. How in the world did the devs jack this up that badly. Heavy armor? Wtf. No resource mgmt and no survivability. It is ridiculous. So you go light armor but no shields like Sorc with the few abilities available to stay alive nerfed to usefulness. So we have NB spamming a few abilities steam rolling everything with absolutely no skill or Sorcs doing the same thing but infinite shields. The game is not balanced and these changes do not fix anything.

Dots... in high burst pvp. Are you frigging kidding me? Other people like to play classes other than NB. Do your damn job ZOS. The current situition is pathetic.

slumber_sandb16_ESO

When I first started playing I leveled a DK thinking it was the absolute best at tanking. At max level I could barely maintain stamina because it had such poor stamina gain even with potions and heavy attacks(fun times doing heavy attacks during boss fights).
Built the character to make it as tanky as possible, a juggernaut. Had to struggle a lot to maintain defenses, buffs, DoTs etc while trying not to run out of resources.

Then I switched to NB. Unlimited resources with siphoning attacks, Shadow barrier means I basically have permanent immovable(minus CC immunity) running around with nearly 30k resistances while doing 10-15k dps as a tank. I have a taunt skill on my bars. Thats it. I have no need for any other tanking skill at all because I'm so durable. And I'm not even done upgrading my gear yet, its going to get even stronger and more durable. Not to mention I actually get STAMINA abilities that don't suck.
And now dark cloak is going to give a 5 ish second minor protection buff, thats another 8% damage reduction I can keep up permanently thanks to unlimited resources.
Better defence
Better damage
Better self heal

My stamina NB tank is what I wish my stamina DK tank would be.
I was excited about the new searing strike healing, started pondering about maybe going back to my beloved DK. Nope magicka skill along with 90% of all other DK skills, still magicka.


How about this, add a second stage of morphs that does nothing except change what resource an ability uses and making it scale with either stamina or magicka depending on which one you have most of. Also better DK tanking passives.

If I could get shadow barrier(Ash Barrier huehue) on my DK I would be so happy..

Bowser

So the short version of my suggestion for Dragon Blood is:

• Heal for 30% of maximum health.
• Remove Major Fortitude and increase health recovery by 3% of maximum health for 20 seconds.

The benefits of this are:

• The main heal is a constant value.
• Eliminates compounded healing reduction from Battle Spirit.
• The health recovery portion provides substantially more than Major Fortitude.
• The Elder Dragon passive and health potions become more beneficial.
• Health recovery is not penalized by Battle Spirit.

Quick math for a V16 with 20K health and 400 recovery:

• Heal Values
  Current
  At 1 health (0.01%) the heal value is 6,600 (3,300 with Battle Spirit).
  At 10k health (50%) the heal value is 3,300 (1,650 with Battle Spirit).
  Suggested
  At 30% of maximum health, the heal value is always 6,000 health (3,000 with Battle Spirit).
  
  
• Health Recovery
  Current
  400 recovery plus 20% from Major Fortitude (80) is 480 health recovery.
  Suggested
  400 recovery plus 3% of max health (600) is 1,000 health recovery.

Master_Kas

slumber_sandb16_ESO wrote: »

When I first started playing I leveled a DK thinking it was the absolute best at tanking. At max level I could barely maintain stamina because it had such poor stamina gain even with potions and heavy attacks(fun times doing heavy attacks during boss fights).
Built the character to make it as tanky as possible, a juggernaut. Had to struggle a lot to maintain defenses, buffs, DoTs etc while trying not to run out of resources.

Then I switched to NB. Unlimited resources with siphoning attacks, Shadow barrier means I basically have permanent immovable(minus CC immunity) running around with nearly 30k resistances while doing 10-15k dps as a tank. I have a taunt skill on my bars. Thats it. I have no need for any other tanking skill at all because I'm so durable. And I'm not even done upgrading my gear yet, its going to get even stronger and more durable. Not to mention I actually get STAMINA abilities that don't suck.
And now dark cloak is going to give a 5 ish second minor protection buff, thats another 8% damage reduction I can keep up permanently thanks to unlimited resources.
Better defence
Better damage
Better self heal

My stamina NB tank is what I wish my stamina DK tank would be.
I was excited about the new searing strike healing, started pondering about maybe going back to my beloved DK. Nope magicka skill along with 90% of all other DK skills, still magicka.


How about this, add a second stage of morphs that does nothing except change what resource an ability uses and making it scale with either stamina or magicka depending on which one you have most of. Also better DK tanking passives.

If I could get shadow barrier(Ash Barrier huehue) on my DK I would be so happy..

Give me battleroar and you can have my shadow barrier

Bromburak

Purdomination33 wrote: »

Why am I reading so much about "Stam DK's in a good place?" In all reality they are not in a good place at all. Stamina based weapons are...it has nothing to do with a DragonKnight. Right now a Stamina DK is nothing more than a 'Stamina based Character categorized as DragonKnight'.

Thats because most of you don't differ between Stamina DD and Stamina Full Tank.
Stamina DKs just copy and paste 2H builds because their only concern is max DPS instead optimizing their really good survival rates.

The way I see it, DK's are stuck with no identity. Everything they do is watered down.

Real tanks do identify with DKs.

Therium104 wrote:

Lol. You have to laugh. Pvp has become entirely centered around burst but the DK have no class skills that support this play style. It gets even more surreal when you consider DK has less survivability than the other classes. How in the world did the devs jack this up that badly. Heavy armor? Wtf. No resource mgmt and no survivability. It is ridiculous

Your statement is ridiculous because you clearly have no clue about the DK class. Especially Ressource Management and survival is the most unique strength of DK in ESO.

Every DK knows that ressource management works different but perfectly when you know how to generate your ultis fast enough. As well keep calm in PvP and don't panic , thats what most of you guys do, spamming your skills. And stop expecting passive support by class mechanics, YOU need to take control over your class. Very active game play is required, don't wait for things happen automatically.

A well played DK is always last man standing in PvP, while 5-6 enemies are trying to kill him for minutes. Of course all solo gimps don't expect and don't like challenging fights , all they want is quick APs. Not gonna happen vs. full DK tanks.

Your problems have nothing todo with ressource management or survival of the class.
It's your wrong expectations and lack of knowledge how things work ...

leepalmer95

Bromburak wrote: »

Purdomination33 wrote: »

Why am I reading so much about "Stam DK's in a good place?" In all reality they are not in a good place at all. Stamina based weapons are...it has nothing to do with a DragonKnight. Right now a Stamina DK is nothing more than a 'Stamina based Character categorized as DragonKnight'.

Thats because most of you don't differ between Stamina DD and Stamina Full Tank.
Stamina DKs just copy and paste 2H builds because their only concern is max DPS instead optimizing their really good survival rates.

The way I see it, DK's are stuck with no identity. Everything they do is watered down.

Real tanks do identify with DKs.

Therium104 wrote:

Lol. You have to laugh. Pvp has become entirely centered around burst but the DK have no class skills that support this play style. It gets even more surreal when you consider DK has less survivability than the other classes. How in the world did the devs jack this up that badly. Heavy armor? Wtf. No resource mgmt and no survivability. It is ridiculous

Your statement is ridiculous because you clearly have no clue about the DK class. Especially Ressource Management and survival is the most unique strength of DK in ESO.

Every DK knows that ressource management works different but perfectly when you know how to generate your ultis fast enough. As well keep calm in PvP and don't panic , thats what most of you guys do, spamming your skills. And stop expecting passive support by class mechanics, YOU need to take control over your class. Very active game play is required, don't wait for things happen automatically.

A well played DK is always last man standing in PvP, while 5-6 enemies are trying to kill him for minutes. Of course all solo gimps don't expect and don't like challenging fights , all they want is quick APs. Not gonna happen vs. full DK tanks.

Your problems have nothing todo with ressource management or survival of the class.
It's your wrong expectations and lack of knowledge how things work ...

Tanks - Staying alive for a few mins because thats all they can do as a build.

Sure there the last one, if there not a shield stack sorc/ or a nb that cloaked away or a templar block casting BoL.

Tank are utility class only, most people don't enjoy holding block and managing resources as a play style, myself including as it's the most boring thing in this game.

Also relying on your sustain to come from ultimates isn't reliable at all, i would prefer the boost to sustain other classes get directly. Nb's 15% @ passive, templars 10%@ from slotting a skill etc...

Where the only class that doesn't have % increase in stats, % wpn/spell dmg or % increase in regen in our passives.

Bromburak

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Tanks - Staying alive for a few mins because thats all they can do as a build.

What do you mean with "all they can do"?

It's your main duty as a tank to stay alive and keep your enemies busy on defending objectives! Your enemies hate you for this, because they are the one in trouble, because they cannot just rush something or kill you.

The price I pay for this is being a very stationary class because lack of mobility.
But why would I care as defensive player? Its not my job to run after 1 or 2 kills like silly cat and mouse. If they want trouble, let em come and you will wreck their face again.

If i want to play a mobile Top peak DPS class, I switch to NB or Sorc anyway, why the heck would i play DK? Seriously, do players actually read and understand what class they are playing, or do they only have own expectations that are far away from reality and not gonna happen anyway?

This reminds me on Stamina Sorcs, crying to use weapons.
Well yes because their main class design relies on Magic abilities and makes them a hybrid beast with mobility, CC, shields and hit like a truck. Thats the strength of their class abilities based on Magicka.

If I want to play a mobile melee style beast, I play NB anyway. Why is it so hard to accept UNIQUE strength of a single classes? You are still flexible enough, you just cannot have it all. Get over it.

leepalmer95

Bromburak wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Tanks - Staying alive for a few mins because thats all they can do as a build.

What do you mean with "all they can do"?

It's your main duty as a tank to stay alive and keep your enemies busy on defending objectives! Your enemies hate you for this, because they are the one in trouble, because they cannot just rush something or kill you.

The price I pay for this is being a very stationary class because lack of mobility.
But why would I care as defensive player? Its not my job to run after 1 or 2 kills like silly cat and mouse. If they want trouble, let em come and wreck their face as usual.

If i want to play a mobile Top peak DPS class, I switch to NB or Sorc anyway, why the *uck would i play DK?
Seriously, do players actually read and understand what class they are actually playing, or do they only have expectations in dynamics that not gonna happen for a long time anyway?

This reminds me on Stamina Sorcs, crying to use weapons.
Well yes because their main class design relies on Magic abilities and makes them a hybrid beast with mobility, CC, shields and hit like a truck. Thats the strength of their class abilities based on Magicka.

If I want to play a mobile melee style beast, I play NB anyway. Why is it so hard to accept UNIQUE strength of a single classes? You are still flexible enough, you just cannot have it all. Get over it.

DK's are tanks because why? they have a reduction to blocking passive?

Every time i see a tank in cyro in a group, everyone ignores the tank and kills everyone else then kills the tank last, tanks literally just stand there.

Nb's make better tanks than dk's in cyrodill now days.

No one hates a tank they just ignore them because there not a threat.

LorDrek

In this game is still better magicka than stamina.

Faulgor

Purdomination33 wrote: »

Why am I reading so much about "Stam DK's in a good place?"

Because of this:

Faulgor wrote: »

Class skills I use on my Stamina Dragonknight
Skill points spent: 54

Ardent Flame
Standard of Might
Empowering Chains
Unstable Flame
Burning Breath
Flames of Oblivion
Kindling
Warmth
Searing Heat
World in Flame

Draconic Power
Take Flight
Hardened Armor
Choking Talons
Green Dragon Blood
Dragon Fire Scale
Iron Skin
Burning Heart
Elder Dragon
Scaled Armor

Earthen Heart
Corrosive Armor
Igneous Weapons
Igneous Shield
Fossilize
Cinder Storm
Eternal Mountain
Battle Roar
Mountain's Blessing
Helping Hands

Class skills I use on my Stamina Nightblade
Skill points spent: 50

Assassination
Soul Harvest
Killer's Blade
Ambush
Double Take
Piercing Mark
Relentless Focus
Master Assassin
Executioner
Pressure Points
Hemorrhage

Shadow
Bolstering Darkness
Dark Cloak
Surprise Attack
Mass Hysteria
Shadow Image
Refreshing Shadows
Shadow Barrier
Dark Vigor
Dark Veil

Siphoning
Soul Tether
Siphoning Attacks
Catalyst
Magicka Flood
Soul Siphoner
Transfer

Class skills I use on my Stamina Sorcerer
Skill points spent: 36

Dark Magic
Restraining Prison
Defensive Rune
Dark Deal
Unholy Knowledge
Blood Magic
Persistence

Daedric Summoning
Greater Storm Atronach
Bound Armaments
Power Stone
Daedric Protection

Stormcalling
Energy Overload
Boundless Storm
Critical Surge
Streak
Capacitor
Energized
Disintegrate
Expert Mage

Class skills I use on my Stamina Templar
Skill points spent: 20

Aedric Spear
Biting Jabs
Blinding Javelin
Piercing Spear
Spear Wall
Burning Light
Balanced Warrior

Dawn's Wrath
Restoring Spirit

Restoring Light
Repentance
Purifying Ritual
Focused Healing

+/- a few here or there depending on the build.
Hope you notice the trend.

Stamina DKs have a-ma-zing utility from their magicka abilities and passives. NBs are very similar in this regard, except they also have a spammable stamina-based attack and in turn fall behind DKs in survivability.
From the point of view of almost any other build, stamina DKs look fantastic.

Bromburak

leepalmer95 wrote: »

DK's are tanks because why? they have a reduction to blocking passive?

They are good tanks because their class abilities and passives have more to offer than DPS, especially when playing stamina builds. You don't have to play a tank, but if you go Stamina DPS you must accept the fact , that you rely on Weapon skills like Sorcs. The question is why would you play a DK or Sorc then, when you actually want to play a melee DPS (or Bow) that gets his advantage from class abilities like NB.

IMO the class choice of many players make no sense to me.The flexibility and feeling unique comes from class choice. I know you all want 1 base class, but the reality is we have 4 classes for a reason as designed ...

Every time i see a tank in cyro in a group, everyone ignores the tank and kills everyone else then kills the tank last, tanks literally just stand there.

What counts is your own experience as tank, and not what you see from others that are usually randoms and AP leecher.
My advice, please get rid of randoms, you always have the choice to play within a PvP guild or other passionated team players. Then defend a keep for example, in reality this barely happens with randoms because they don't listen what Crown says anyway. They are not organized and they don't care about Teamwork. But your self and your regular group can make the difference including your Tank , enemies will fail rush flag. They will not turn a keep as long a well organized group is inside defending.

Your group needs discipline and team spirit, in small scale we know how to defend stuff, where to put siege and how to use it properly, how to put pressure on attackers before walls or doors are down and how to defend flags in worst case.

You can compare this to progress guilds in PvE, knowledge of class, knowledge of mechanics, discipline and team play is essential. Not gonna happen with randoms. The zerg is just casual PvP entertainment, nothing else. Just get rid of it , and you have a lot of fun.

Nb's make better tanks than dk's in cyrodill now days.

I strongly disagree, but their mobility and melee skills makes them a better choice for pure Stamina DPS
because from class perspective they don't rely on weapon lines, strong melee skills are coming from class morphs.

Every class has to offer weak and strong builds, thats why we have 4 and not 1 class.

Volkodav

Looks like I'll be getting a reskill scroll.Lol!

actosh

After testing all the stuff like crazy i want to provide some feedback as well, but we all know that all the good ideas and feedback u guys/girls posted wont considered by the devs. Just like in the Past.

Played on my Dk nearly 2500 Hours, so this is just the opinion of an average Dk player since beta, and for your information, i dont want dk return to its former glory but we all know 1 thing. Dk WAS Balanced, and all other classes were just gimped by Zenimax in the beginning. Would have been better if they had back there pushed all other classes to get em to the same lvl that the dk had. Would be better then Nerfing. Take a look at sorcs/nb´s now. Pls show some love for temps as well ^^.

Ardent Flame

Dragonknight Standard- Shifting Standard
Cost should be around 175 or something, and if u move it it should NOT reset your Ultimate(right now it does).

Standard of Might
Zos, please raise the radius to activate the synergy. 3.5 Meters is a step into the right direction but 5 or 6 Meters would be better. Also adjust the cost down to 200, since 250 is way to high.

Fiery Grip & Morphs
Fix the damn elevation issue on this and make this ability work ALL THE TIME and so u can change the mag refund on one morph to something usefull. Also make it ignore block, since every gap closer ignores it.

Searing Strike & Morphs
Dmg could be raised a bit, otherwise its the only dk ability that is fine.

Fiery Breath
Dmg could be raised a bit

Lava Whip&Morphs
You guys need to raise the dmg of this ability or add another effect to it, like reduce healin on the opponent and FOR THE LOVE OF MOLAG BALL, listen to all your dk players and give us a Stam Whip, it cant be so hard and so we are not forced to use a particular weapon type to have a spamable.
Add Spellresistance debuff to it. So u make it hit harder.

Inferno & Morphs
Same goes here, no one will use that crappy poor mans version of magelight. U said once class abilities should be better then the ones everybody has access to. Revert this thing completely to what it was pre 1.5. the aoe around u that drains magicka. Nearly everybody complains about your changes since u touched this wonderfull skill that it used to be.
Give it a stam version as well.

Passives
Kindling and Warmth
seem to be ok.

World in Flames
Raise the value.

Suggestion, if u r fighting vampires and use fire dmg, it can trigger explosion dealing nice dmg, u may want to make this a passive for dk´s and give it a decent proc chance (would work similar to mages desintegration)


Draconic Power

Dragon Leap and Morphs
Seem to be ok now with the reduced phys dmg incoming via cp

Spiked armor and morphs
I like both Morphs, but u should make one morph called Burning Armor that deals each sec fire dmg and leave the other morph as spiked armor.

Talons
Seem ok now, i think.

Dragon Blood& Morphs
Battlespirit kills this ability. Either you exlude it from Battlespirit, or u rework this ability and make both morphs a HOT, like vigor. Green Dragon Blood as Stam Version, Coagulating Blood for Mag users. The way the ability is now, it is only sometimes usefull in pve.

Reflective Scales & Morphs
Better not touch it, u tried to "balance" it often enough. Your Best attempt to do this was in some patch where it could still reflect unlimited ammounts of projectiles, BUT each reflect has cost the same for u as it has cost for the caster to throw the crap at you. This way it was kinda Risk vs reward, it could drain your ressources to 0 if u didnt use it wisely.

Inhale & Morphs
Liek the way the skill works right now, but pls, make one of the morphs (Deep Breath) a Stamina version!! It sucks for us dk´s to rely more on weapon skills than on class skills. We still want to keep our identity ^^.

Passives

Iron Skin
Seems ok.

Burning Heart
Great passive, but EXCLUDE it from Battlespirit(or get rid of Battlesuckit and balance the game from there!!!!!!

Elder Dragon
CAN be nice for some hp regen builds, but overall its not that awesome as you at zos may think, pls rework it and make it something usefull. Keep the reg, but add something else. Forums are full of suggestions. Use search function!

Scaled Armor
This passive MUST grant also Physical Resistance and not only Spell Resistance. Either u keep em both at 3.3k or u raise the value to something usefull like 4-5k. But please give it also PHYSICAL RESISTANCE! Thx. Would fit the Dk way more. Since u once said we r supposed to stand our ground.

Earthen Heart

Magma Armor - Corrossive Armor
Hands down, its nice for us Stam users, but it also needs to ignore spell resistance. So its a good choice for both types of gameplay.

Magma Armor - Magma Shell
This Ult is really nice since u changed it, since it dont requires your team to put up a synergy. All they gotta do now is gettin close and they receive their shield. Thx for this change ^^. Cost at 200 is also fine.

Stonefist & Morphs
Come on Guys, same here like on Inferno. U had your time to make it worth using, please change this skill to a Finisher for us.
A lot of suggesstions floating around regarding Stonefist finisher. Give it a Stam and a Magicka Morph. Let it act as Short Range finisher max 7 Meters!!!!

Molten Weapons & Morphs
Nice try to let it act as group buff, but ppl will still run their own major Sorcery/Brutality Buffs.
Make one Morph "Major Brutality and increase your heavy attack dmg by 40%" and the other one u can leave as it is with the "Gives Major Sorcery and increase your heavy attack dmg by 40%". This way u can make both camps happy ^^.

Obsidian Shield
Either Raise the value that the shield provides for the caster and allies, or rework the skill completly. Ward from restostaff gives bigger shield + op healZ.

Petrify & Morphs

Can u remember when one of the morphs reduced the enemys regeneration values by 40%?
Can we pleaZE have this morph back? This is a nice way to put some preassure on your opponent.
Besides that, skill seems fine. But noone uses shattering rocks, so u may change this one to something usefull or considerable.

Ashcloud & Morphs
Give Major Evasion Back while Standing your ground inside ^^. Nothing more to add here.

Passives

Eternal Mountain
Hm....can leavy it as it is, but i would also take something enterylie else for this passive, maybe something like +hp,stam,mag regen? Look at Sorc or Nb with the regen. But dont make it tooo big.

Battle Roar
Dk´s best passive, hands down. All u need to do here is exclude the health return from battlespirit. Maybe u shoudl also make a newes article about the formula (i know it) for the ressource return so ppl may stop to complain how stupidly op this is. Do the math, and then try to complain Girls.

Mountains Blessing
Awesome except for the fact that u cant get MINOR BRUTALITY when u play on your own. At least it isnt showed up in the abilities tooltip.

Healping Hands
While 5% Return is nice, ppl often forget that it scales with your pool. Would be nice to have a fixed set value here, so Magicka Dk´s can also Benefit from this ability.
On 30k Stam its just a 1.5k Stam return, so it works as a ressource trade. Fixed value again, would be wayyyy better here.

DK´s and MIGHTY (CP TREE)
Zos, if u encourage us to use Stamdots, let them scale of Mighty, as well as Fire Dmg abilities that use stam as source. Thx.

LorDrek

Nice, good idea.

The Uninvited

Bromburak wrote: »

They are good tanks because their class abilities and passives have more to offer than DPS, especially when playing stamina builds. You don't have to play a tank, but if you go Stamina DPS you must accept the fact , that you rely on Weapon skills like Sorcs. The question is why would you play a DK or Sorc then, when you actually want to play a melee DPS (or Bow) that gets his advantage from class abilities like NB.

IMO the class choice of many players make no sense to me.The flexibility and feeling unique comes from class choice. I know you all want 1 base class, but the reality is we have 4 classes for a reason as designed ...

............................

Every class has to offer weak and strong builds, thats why we have 4 and not 1 class.

Agreed 100%.