Costumes: Some words of advice ZOS

Vslatimoreb14_ESO

Well..to be perfectly honest. Sexy sells, especially in MMORPGS. If people being bothered by sexist outfits puts more money in zos pocket so they can hire back people they had to let go so be it. This is not Reddit so I don't have to show sources. But a few Google links explains there are far more men than female gamers. And sexualizing females in games sell to a large portion of these men.

Now I'm not saying its morally correct but this is just the lay of the land. And I much rather have a game to play like ESO, than fantasies of one due to them trying to fit some moral delusion that genders will ever be viewed equally. IMHO of course.

AlienSlof

Kadoozy wrote: »

Hope499 wrote: »

This is the sort of thing we want most i imagine...

That's kinda cringy and way too TERA in my opinion. I would rather keep it closer to lore and not asian fantasy.

^ This. ^

I used to play Tera until it became increasingly female-biased. If ESO goes down that route, I'll be gone so fast, I won't be seen for dust.

Let's keep things equal: skimpy for both genders and covered for both. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Volkodav

MornaBaine wrote: »

Recently, you gave us these:





You certainly SHOULD have included THIS but did not:



All of the above are supposedly Reguard CULTURAL clothing. They are not billed as "dancing girl" clothing, which they clearly are. Rather, you'd have us believe this is the sort of thing Reguard women just wear all the time. Um...okayyyy.... suuuure.

Now, that might be okay BUT here's the concept art you put out for the upcoming MALE Redguard cultural clothing:


Now I actually think these are wonderful costumes. But here is my concern. [snip] PLEASE DON'T. Am I saying don't give females skimpy costumes? NOPE. I love them. But I want SIMILAR costumes for male characters as well! And I want them in EXACTLY THE SAME NUMBERS FOR BOTH SEXES. And those awesome male concept art costumes? I want FEMALE versions. Yes, I know female characters can wear them, just as males can wear the dancing girl costumes. Not good enough. I want to see elegant Redguard cultural costumes that are as modest and covering as the male costumes you are planning but specifically made for women.

In future, please make sure you offer all styles of clothing, whether skimpy or modest, in equal proportion for both men and women. [snip] What you've done so far has managed to be tasteful. But you've dropped the ball by not offering something comparable designed for male characters. Don't be those guys ZOS. We expect better of you.

I started to tell you to just put the male costumes on your female,but that didnt work for me with the nice new costumes we have for males.One looked like it would be nice on a female as well as male,and there were no boobs.

[edited to remove quote]

Volkodav

MornaBaine wrote: »

And I've not yet seen any concept art even for IMPERIAL costumes which is surprising since you've already released Imperial City DLC. Might I suggest...

As a female warrior,I wouldnt be caught dead in any dress.These are nice for in town though.

Duiwel

Imperial costume pack was rubbish - I like the Spartacus suggested costumes for Imperials though, perhaps also add some from the Rome series.
guy on the right for example ^



As for Breton and noble outfits once again male characters got the short end OP is 100% correct.

The only decent looking male outfit right now is the Wedding Suit.

Where are our noble Breton clothing? Where are the Ulfric Stormcloak-type clothing?

Nice & dandy we got noble orc clothing that looks good... too bad it's not the style I would wear so I won't get it.

Please look into this Devs.

Also please can we have crowns as costumes? Laurels, Silver crowns, golden crowns, jeweled crowns, bone crowns ect.

And yes OP we need more skimpy outfits, but also MORE male char outfits!

pod88kk

My bearded 'incredible hulk' orc looks simply fabulous in his wedding dress and will continue to feel great no matter what people say.

MornaBaine

Vslatimoreb14_ESO wrote: »

Well..to be perfectly honest. Sexy sells, especially in MMORPGS. If people being bothered by sexist outfits puts more money in zos pocket so they can hire back people they had to let go so be it. This is not Reddit so I don't have to show sources. But a few Google links explains there are far more men than female gamers. And sexualizing females in games sell to a large portion of these men.

Now I'm not saying its morally correct but this is just the lay of the land. And I much rather have a game to play like ESO, than fantasies of one due to them trying to fit some moral delusion that genders will ever be viewed equally. IMHO of course.

I think you're wrong. While I agree that, overall, more men than women play MMORPGS that alone is far too simplistic. First of all, we're looking at the demographic of THIS game that actually wants to buy costumes. Right there, we've probably just skewed female. But beyond that, ESO has done something pretty groundbreaking that bears consideration; They've normalized homosexuality in the game world. So now we have what has been an utterly ignored demographic that is being drawn to this game because of its LGBT friendliness. Women like pretty men. So do gay and bi men. And the numbers may not be even but a LOT of women play this game. I'd say easily half the ROLEPLAYERS in this game are women. And guess what? Roleplayers buy costumes. So it actually makes far more financial sense to cater to us because we'll spend the money to make our characters look like we want them to.

MornaBaine

Duiwel wrote: »

Imperial costume pack was rubbish - I like the Spartacus suggested costumes for Imperials though, perhaps also add some from the Rome series.
guy on the right for example ^



As for Breton and noble outfits once again male characters got the short end OP is 100% correct.

The only decent looking male outfit right now is the Wedding Suit.

Where are our noble Breton clothing? Where are the Ulfric Stormcloak-type clothing?

Nice & dandy we got noble orc clothing that looks good... too bad it's not the style I would wear so I won't get it.

Please look into this Devs.

Also please can we have crowns as costumes? Laurels, Silver crowns, golden crowns, jeweled crowns, bone crowns ect.

And yes OP we need more skimpy outfits, but also MORE male char outfits!

The costuming in Rome was stellar! Thank you for adding these.

failkiwib16_ESO

Vslatimoreb14_ESO wrote: »

Well..to be perfectly honest. Sexy sells, especially in MMORPGS. If people being bothered by sexist outfits puts more money in zos pocket so they can hire back people they had to let go so be it. This is not Reddit so I don't have to show sources. But a few Google links explains there are far more men than female gamers. And sexualizing females in games sell to a large portion of these men.

Now I'm not saying its morally correct but this is just the lay of the land. And I much rather have a game to play like ESO, than fantasies of one due to them trying to fit some moral delusion that genders will ever be viewed equally. IMHO of course.

@Vslatimoreb14_ESO this thread is not about morale and banning sexy outfits though ...we're just asking for sexy outfit for male chars too, because we have 0 of those.

TES community including ESO has a lot of female players. It's true that he majority of the playerbase are men, however around 20%-25% of our playerbase are women so it's not a minority to ignore either. So we ask for sexy costumes + in general more costumes for male chars.

Also a lot of women enjoy being sexualized, and buy pretty/sexy/cute costumes for their female chars too. It's not only men who benefit from those things

Rosveen

failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »

Vslatimoreb14_ESO wrote: »

Well..to be perfectly honest. Sexy sells, especially in MMORPGS. If people being bothered by sexist outfits puts more money in zos pocket so they can hire back people they had to let go so be it. This is not Reddit so I don't have to show sources. But a few Google links explains there are far more men than female gamers. And sexualizing females in games sell to a large portion of these men.

Now I'm not saying its morally correct but this is just the lay of the land. And I much rather have a game to play like ESO, than fantasies of one due to them trying to fit some moral delusion that genders will ever be viewed equally. IMHO of course.

It's true that he majority of the playerbase are men, however around 20%-25% of our playerbase are women so it's not a minority to ignore either.

Source? (no, a forum poll isn't a credible source)

Btw, I don't disagree with the point you're making, I just don't think we should support it with made up statistics.

Islyn

Coatmagic wrote: »

See, and here I thought ZOS was caving to some feminist outcry, when in reality the only reason they took our sexy armor away was so they could sell it to us via the cash shop. Well platyed ZOS, well played.

You just figure that out now?

Volkodav

failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »

Vslatimoreb14_ESO wrote: »

Well..to be perfectly honest. Sexy sells, especially in MMORPGS. If people being bothered by sexist outfits puts more money in zos pocket so they can hire back people they had to let go so be it. This is not Reddit so I don't have to show sources. But a few Google links explains there are far more men than female gamers. And sexualizing females in games sell to a large portion of these men.

Now I'm not saying its morally correct but this is just the lay of the land. And I much rather have a game to play like ESO, than fantasies of one due to them trying to fit some moral delusion that genders will ever be viewed equally. IMHO of course.

@Vslatimoreb14_ESO this thread is not about morale and banning sexy outfits though ...we're just asking for sexy outfit for male chars too, because we have 0 of those.

TES community including ESO has a lot of female players. It's true that he majority of the playerbase are men, however around 20%-25% of our playerbase are women so it's not a minority to ignore either. So we ask for sexy costumes + in general more costumes for male chars.

Also a lot of women enjoy being sexualized, and buy pretty/sexy/cute costumes for their female chars too. It's not only men who benefit from those things

I agree with you that there should be more costumes for males that arent hiding their skin from head to toe.If there are those sexy female costumes,why not the ones like those showed here.The Gladiators. Also,when it was warm,I would have thought that men didnt go around wearing long sleeved heavy robes,or hot leather armor in the heat.Maybe they did in the cold reaches of Norway though.
Also,if people are offended,remember,this is rated as for Mature audiences. Not G.

MornaBaine

I see that once again the ZOS folks are being singularly silent and not sharing any of their own views or plans on this topic. Disappointing.

Eiagra

They're probably silently lurking. Also, probably still developing (this is one of those perpetual in-development things), so all their views and plans are basically gonna be in the form of blog posts or teasers in ESO Live.

That doesn't mean we should stop offering constructive suggestions and sources for inspiration though. If they know what we like, then that can offer a little focused targeting -- although there's something to be said for the "I never knew I wanted this until they made it" side of things too.

IV1IVJA

TheShadowScout wrote: »

But I would soo love to see a update on the ESO underwear situation... and then, maybe also more in-game reasons to take off our armor. I always wanted armor give people a swimming debuff, from "slower" in robes to "sink like a stone" in full plate... and then some quests where you -have- to swim a good deal... and agonize about choices... armored and slow as a turtle or fast swimming and painful in the underwear... I'd love that!

Well, this would make the Argonians more useful haha

MornaBaine

TheShadowScout wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

You certainly SHOULD have included THIS but did not:

Likely kept it back for a february release. Three female options three male options... would have preferred a male and a female per m0onth, or better yet, all three in a discount pack, but eh.

Well, you were right!

TheShadowScout

Yay, rightbeen! \o\ \o/ /o/
Also, what I see of datamined stuff lately... seems good costumings are coming our way in the forseeable future. Bad news for ma crowns balance though...

MornaBaine

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Yay, rightbeen! \o\ \o/ /o/
Also, what I see of datamined stuff lately... seems good costumings are coming our way in the forseeable future. Bad news for ma crowns balance though...

Yeah I have to say I'm happily surprised by what I'm seeing in that regard. Not only a decent mix of revealing and modest but it's starting to look like it was actually designed for THIS game! Can it be that they are finally getting the message?

TheShadowScout

I am pleasently satisfied with the current batch as well. Might simply be their design department is starting to get the hang of doing things the tamriel way, or whatever - but whatever the cause, its happy costuming for us here! And... this is only the redguards! Nine more races to hope for custumes to be made for!

MornaBaine

TheShadowScout wrote: »

I am pleasently satisfied with the current batch as well. Might simply be their design department is starting to get the hang of doing things the tamriel way, or whatever - but whatever the cause, its happy costuming for us here! And... this is only the redguards! Nine more races to hope for custumes to be made for!

Here's hoping! And as they did both male and female versions for the "pirate" costumes I hope that ALSO becomes a trend!

MornaBaine

Oh and let's hope they are actually working on letting us DYE these costumes! Any word on that front ZOS????

Iove

First we get a dye system and then we get costumes - that we can't dye. Just [snip]

[edited for profanity bypass]

nimander99

I just hope we don't see anymore 2k Crown costumes...

MornaBaine

Iove wrote: »

First we get a dye system and then we get costumes - that we can't dye. Just [snip]

Right? And then they act surprised... like it never occurred to them that we would want to! LOL It's the same thing with the chairs all over again. NONE of the vast quantities of furniture in this game is intractable. Someone asked why. They responded that it was because they didn't think anyone would actually WANT their character to be able to sit on it. Seriously. They said that.

[edited to remove quote]

MornaBaine

nimander99 wrote: »

I just hope we don't see anymore 2k Crown costumes...

That was indeed pretty freaking ridiculous.

Lysette

willymchilybily wrote: »

Although i agree with what this thread is saying in principle. If this is about equality and sexism, then you shouldn't expect topless men. You just need to push for more "revealing" male attire apposed to going straight to a loin cloth.

And in doing so this is where imagination/inspiration breaks down. The options are pretty limited. male clothing isnt known historically for being "revealing". It is either open shirt, or sleeveless or both.Because men have objectified women for eons, but not often the other way round.

The only real exception I can think of is something like roman gladiator armor because the crowds use to like to see the blood and guts but it was also practical, and cheap.

(although hollywood has romanticized quite a bit since no doubt.) And this is likely the inspiration of the mercenary Armour we have now anyway.

saw this picture and found it too terrible not to share it.

Well, actually there was a time when males where the pretty ones and females rather dull - in the renaissance.

Lysette

What about this one - this is from the the series Spartacus, blood and sand

TheShadowScout

MornaBaine wrote: »

Here's hoping! And as they did both male and female versions for the "pirate" costumes I hope that ALSO becomes a trend!

As long as its not done with -every- costume... (my main bounty huntress likes to sometimes dress up as a boy after all) But i agree, with costumes where it makes sense to have two different versions, bra-ish for girls, and bandolier-ic for boys, this is a -good- feature.

Gidorick

MornaBaine wrote: »

TheShadowScout wrote: »

I am pleasently satisfied with the current batch as well. Might simply be their design department is starting to get the hang of doing things the tamriel way, or whatever - but whatever the cause, its happy costuming for us here! And... this is only the redguards! Nine more races to hope for custumes to be made for!

Here's hoping! And as they did both male and female versions for the "pirate" costumes I hope that ALSO becomes a trend!

How does that work @MornaBaine ? One costume... put it on and it's your genders or do you get TWO costumes?

TheShadowScout

From the pictures I'd assume different visuals depending on who wears it. Girls get a top, boys get a bandolier... there's a few armor styles that go the same route, different visuals depending on wearers gender after all, so the mechanic is in the game.