Camo Hunter - Fix it already!

Alcast

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Erm, sorry, Alcast, look... your signature states directly and rather blunt that you absolutely despise vampires. That immediately makes you an invalid person to discuss objective balancing on this matter, period. I'll come back to you when I need help with a stamina build, but as far as vampirism and its pro-con-ratio goes, you're not credible enough on that matter.
Sorry, bro, nothing personal, but you're out.

Dont get me wrong, I know that camo is completly OP. But are we discussing balancing issues or broken skills?

Talking about Balancing issues is useless anyway as ZOS will NEVER be able to balance the game bc they have no clue what they are doing.

So as for now, camo is only bugged with Dualwield Heavy attacks.
2 sneak procs? Working as intended because NO cooldown on sneak proc.


Then, Sneak mechanic is broken and dualwield heavy attack sneak mechanic is broken, not camo. But ppl dont get it. Ofc ZOS will never fix those, so better put Camo into the grave >.>

w/e

TheBonesXXX

Alcast wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Erm, sorry, Alcast, look... your signature states directly and rather blunt that you absolutely despise vampires. That immediately makes you an invalid person to discuss objective balancing on this matter, period. I'll come back to you when I need help with a stamina build, but as far as vampirism and its pro-con-ratio goes, you're not credible enough on that matter.
Sorry, bro, nothing personal, but you're out.

Dont get me wrong, I know that camo is completly OP. But are we discussing balancing issues or broken skills?

Talking about Balancing issues is useless anyway as ZOS will NEVER be able to balance the game bc they have no clue what they are doing.

So as for now, camo is only bugged with Dualwield Heavy attacks.
2 sneak procs? Working as intended because NO cooldown on sneak proc.


Then, Sneak mechanic is broken and dualwield heavy attack sneak mechanic is broken, not camo. But ppl dont get it. Ofc ZOS will never fix those, so better put Camo into the grave >.>

w/e

Thats because players don't want balance. Balance isn't achievable in any game, ever as long as the Holy Trinity is there. Classes are built with a certain niche and as soon as they don't perform to that niche then the N word starts to get slung around. I do mean nerf by the way.

I'd also that many players in MMOs do not come from traditional table top or the earlier MMOs and thus lack the experience to actually make informed opinions or discern topics without brand loyalty bias or in this case class bias.

So a lot of this isn't just ZOS fault, but they're a business with a player base who just complains.

mike.eso

WRX wrote: »

Barlthump wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

I did not read all this, but any potato defending camo hunter is a joke. Want to keep throwing around "bad player" accusations, and you are the one insta-killing players? Please. I dont even use camo hunter on my nightblade for a few reasons, but one being it is super cheese.

And for the people saying the tooltip is bugged, you are flat out wrong. ZOS said the tooltip was bugged when it only showed camo hunter being displayed and no skill attached to it.

The tool tip is right when you see 2 or 3 procs from it in one combo, and that is the part that is broken.

It needs to be one cast equals one proc. Want another proc? Cast it again.

You do know one cast one proc will kill the dps for pve right? It's like saying one cast should only give one overload attack. So everytime you shoot, you gotta recast.

Well you are using a broken mechanic to preform higher dps. I mean, you aren't the first.

And no, overload is a toggle and is entirely different. Camo hunter is a buff.

Figure out something better once its fixed. Camo hunter should not ever proc more than once, thats not how its designed.

lol so zos should just make camo hunter a toggle and problem fixed right???

Aztlan

Leaving aside the technical question of whether or not Camo Hunter is working as intended, I see that a lot of the people who responded to this thread are just expressing their frustration at having been ganked, particularly if they're vampires. Although I sympathize, I think there should be a place in the game for this playstyle. I play a Khajiit Nightblade who is specifically geared and designed to surprise players out of stealth and kill them quickly. If I do not succeed, then I am at a distinct disadvantage because I do not equip any defensive skills. I do not play this way in order to be mean, but to help my faction. It takes time to sneak around, find a good vantage point, and wait for the right moment to attack. This is a choice and sacrifice on my part, and I see nothing dishonorable about it. I am always looking for places where ganking actually helps in the overall campaign, such as by cutting off reinforcements or picking off enemy players who are approaching our siege lines. If I had a dueling or group build, I would be less effective at this.

Undoctrinated

so i tried camo hunter on my khajit stam nightblade last night in pvp to see what the big deal was for myself. i had marked a vamp guy who then just stood there sweeping the ground (cocky lil fellow...). so i cast camo hunter, pulled the bow all the way back, and let it go w/ a venom arrow weave. the dude (who was almost twice my level) died immediately... after seeing that for myself, im pretty convinced that isn't how its intended to work.

Jules

Undoctrinated

yeeeeah, i had to re-roll evil hunter after that. thats just dirty. and what happened to the remaining 7k of ur health? its not even on the recap. wow...

MrGigglypants

YurtTheSilentChief wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

camo hunter is not bugged, stealth and Animation cancalling is.

Sadly, zeni supports animation cancelling (or they have no idea, how to fix it. Since, there is no cool down in each skill like tera online has...)

The games dps would suck without canceling and feel very 1 buttony. Canceling adds a skill set to the game especially on console where there's no macros.

Angus

Vamp gets - to sum it up - sustain buffs.

Makes sense that someone hunting vampires wouldn't play their sustain game, but burst them down instead.

Not to mention, that person has to give up a slot to take an ability that will be effectively useless on non-vamps.

No problem here. The occasional one-shot on me, on my vamps, usually while foolishly exposed, isn't enough of a negative to convince me to cure it.

Cinnamon_Spider

Angus wrote: »

Vamp gets - to sum it up - sustain buffs.

Makes sense that someone hunting vampires wouldn't play their sustain game, but burst them down instead.

Not to mention, that person has to give up a slot to take an ability that will be effectively useless on non-vamps.

No problem here. The occasional one-shot on me, on my vamps, usually while foolishly exposed, isn't enough of a negative to convince me to cure it.

Vamp has to give uo two slots to get the regen benefits. And camo does proc on non vamps.

strikeback1247

WRX wrote: »

I did not read all this, but any potato defending camo hunter is a joke. Want to keep throwing around "bad player" accusations, and you are the one insta-killing players? Please. I dont even use camo hunter on my nightblade for a few reasons, but one being it is super cheese.

And for the people saying the tooltip is bugged, you are flat out wrong. ZOS said the tooltip was bugged when it only showed camo hunter being displayed and no skill attached to it.

The tool tip is right when you see 2 or 3 procs from it in one combo, and that is the part that is broken.

It needs to be one cast equals one proc. Want another proc? Cast it again.

How to kill an ability 101 here. Maybe we should apply your solution to all the other buffs in the game. 1 use and recast. As if buff timers weren't short enough already :^)

Cinnamon_Spider

strikeback1247 wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

I did not read all this, but any potato defending camo hunter is a joke. Want to keep throwing around "bad player" accusations, and you are the one insta-killing players? Please. I dont even use camo hunter on my nightblade for a few reasons, but one being it is super cheese.

And for the people saying the tooltip is bugged, you are flat out wrong. ZOS said the tooltip was bugged when it only showed camo hunter being displayed and no skill attached to it.

The tool tip is right when you see 2 or 3 procs from it in one combo, and that is the part that is broken.

It needs to be one cast equals one proc. Want another proc? Cast it again.

How to kill an ability 101 here. Maybe we should apply your solution to all the other buffs in the game. 1 use and recast. As if buff timers weren't short enough already :^)

If it worked like Surge or Rally, that wouldn't be an issue. Instead of it adding in hits that are as much as, or higher in damage than the main attack causing the proc, it could buff the damage of attacks against vamps by a percent. Not to the point of one shots, but it wouldn't be worthless.

Imdrefan

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

[
Vamp has to give uo two slots to get the regen benefits. And camo does proc on non vamps.

You only need a vamp ability on 1 bar.

Cinnamon_Spider

Imdrefan wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

[
Vamp has to give uo two slots to get the regen benefits. And camo does proc on non vamps.

You only need a vamp ability on 1 bar.

You need it on both bars, if you want the regen on both.

Lord-Otto

Alcast wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Erm, sorry, Alcast, look... your signature states directly and rather blunt that you absolutely despise vampires. That immediately makes you an invalid person to discuss objective balancing on this matter, period. I'll come back to you when I need help with a stamina build, but as far as vampirism and its pro-con-ratio goes, you're not credible enough on that matter.
Sorry, bro, nothing personal, but you're out.

Dont get me wrong, I know that camo is completly OP. But are we discussing balancing issues or broken skills?

Talking about Balancing issues is useless anyway as ZOS will NEVER be able to balance the game bc they have no clue what they are doing.

So as for now, camo is only bugged with Dualwield Heavy attacks.
2 sneak procs? Working as intended because NO cooldown on sneak proc.


Then, Sneak mechanic is broken and dualwield heavy attack sneak mechanic is broken, not camo. But ppl dont get it. Ofc ZOS will never fix those, so better put Camo into the grave >.>

w/e

Hmhm, okay. I t looked to me you actually WANTED Camo Hunter to be so over the top effective against vampires. If I took your words wrong, then disregard my accusations.

Imdrefan

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Imdrefan wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

[
Vamp has to give uo two slots to get the regen benefits. And camo does proc on non vamps.

You only need a vamp ability on 1 bar.

You need it on both bars, if you want the regen on both.

Last time I checked I had the regen on my off bar too. I'm at work so i cant do it right now, but It may have changed.

leepalmer95

Imdrefan wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Imdrefan wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

[
Vamp has to give uo two slots to get the regen benefits. And camo does proc on non vamps.

You only need a vamp ability on 1 bar.

You need it on both bars, if you want the regen on both.

Last time I checked I had the regen on my off bar too. I'm at work so i cant do it right now, but It may have changed.

nah it's only on the bar you have the skill equip

Alcast

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Erm, sorry, Alcast, look... your signature states directly and rather blunt that you absolutely despise vampires. That immediately makes you an invalid person to discuss objective balancing on this matter, period. I'll come back to you when I need help with a stamina build, but as far as vampirism and its pro-con-ratio goes, you're not credible enough on that matter.
Sorry, bro, nothing personal, but you're out.

Dont get me wrong, I know that camo is completly OP. But are we discussing balancing issues or broken skills?

Talking about Balancing issues is useless anyway as ZOS will NEVER be able to balance the game bc they have no clue what they are doing.

So as for now, camo is only bugged with Dualwield Heavy attacks.
2 sneak procs? Working as intended because NO cooldown on sneak proc.


Then, Sneak mechanic is broken and dualwield heavy attack sneak mechanic is broken, not camo. But ppl dont get it. Ofc ZOS will never fix those, so better put Camo into the grave >.>

w/e

Hmhm, okay. I t looked to me you actually WANTED Camo Hunter to be so over the top effective against vampires. If I took your words wrong, then disregard my accusations.

Not rly, I know its OP...like other stuff...for example:
Shieldspam/stack
cloakspam
BoL spam
Wblow spam
Mag Det
Purge
..and so on

It does not matter, if you are waiting for ZOS to balance the game you can come back in 10 years and the game will prolly be in the same state because ZOS devs have 0 clue wtf is going on

Why do you think cyro consists of like 50% nb, 40% sorc, and 10% smth.
Even I do not know why I keep coming back to the forum and keep writing stuff in here...>.>

Anzriel

Alcast wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Erm, sorry, Alcast, look... your signature states directly and rather blunt that you absolutely despise vampires. That immediately makes you an invalid person to discuss objective balancing on this matter, period. I'll come back to you when I need help with a stamina build, but as far as vampirism and its pro-con-ratio goes, you're not credible enough on that matter.
Sorry, bro, nothing personal, but you're out.

Dont get me wrong, I know that camo is completly OP. But are we discussing balancing issues or broken skills?

Talking about Balancing issues is useless anyway as ZOS will NEVER be able to balance the game bc they have no clue what they are doing.

So as for now, camo is only bugged with Dualwield Heavy attacks.
2 sneak procs? Working as intended because NO cooldown on sneak proc.


Then, Sneak mechanic is broken and dualwield heavy attack sneak mechanic is broken, not camo. But ppl dont get it. Ofc ZOS will never fix those, so better put Camo into the grave >.>

w/e

Hmhm, okay. I t looked to me you actually WANTED Camo Hunter to be so over the top effective against vampires. If I took your words wrong, then disregard my accusations.

Not rly, I know its OP...like other stuff...for example:
Shieldspam/stack
cloakspam
BoL spam
Wblow spam
Mag Det
Purge
..and so on

It does not matter, if you are waiting for ZOS to balance the game you can come back in 10 years and the game will prolly be in the same state because ZOS devs have 0 clue wtf is going on

Why do you think cyro consists of like 50% nb, 40% sorc, and 10% smth.
Even I do not know why I keep coming back to the forum and keep writing stuff in here...>.>

Because you love us

Although sadly I agree, they have regularly shown they don't understand balance at all. I don't think people should give up, but I have little faith myself these days.

ZOS_GinaBruno

Just letting you all know that we have a fix going in for Camo Hunter in Monday's incremental PC patch that should address this.

blur

@ZOS_GinaBruno

How about you let us know the changes coming into the game instead of waiting until patch notes of the patch day 5 minutes before server up?

Seriously, you guys @ ZOS are the absolute worst when it comes to transparency. You keep us in the dark until the last minute and force change upon us like ***.

ZOS_GinaBruno

We're not changing the ability, we are fixing the exploit as discussed in this thread.

Akinos

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We're not changing the ability, we are fixing the exploit as discussed in this thread.

Yay...some good news! I hope it's actually fixed, guess we'll see on monday

Cinnamon_Spider

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We're not changing the ability, we are fixing the exploit as discussed in this thread.

Awesome! Thank you for taking time to reply to my venting.

GreenSoup2HoT

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We're not changing the ability, we are fixing the exploit as discussed in this thread.

When you say "fixing the exploit", are you referring to "Camouflage Hunter" proc'ing more then once?

Duel Wield heavy attack's specifically?

Or the 0.5 second's of time where all ability's can take benefit from the stealth modifier thus proc'ing "Camouflage Hunter" for all attack's within this time?


Since you are not changing the ability, can i assume that you can still hit your enemy with the first stealth proc and have a chance for the 15% chance proc to happen as well?

What you said is a little vague because the exploit with "Camouflage Hunter" is proc'ing the ability more then once. However it technically can proc twice if you factor in the 15% chance with the stealth proc.


I'm just wondering what is actually being fixed here. Camouflage Hunter is not working as intended because there is no internal cool-down for the stealth 100% proc.

-Is there going to be a new Internal Cool-Down?
-Or is the 0.5 second's given for the stealth modifier being changed?
-Will only 1 attack from stealth benefit from the stealth modifier?

As a nightblade this is crucial information since we relie on this stealth modifier damage.


Will console need to wait till next dlc for this change?



I'd also like to add, it may be a good idea to talk to Wrobel to have the % chance to effect all other enemies bumped up to 10%

Ezareth

blur wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno

How about you let us know the changes coming into the game instead of waiting until patch notes of the patch day 5 minutes before server up?

Seriously, you guys @ ZOS are the absolute worst when it comes to transparency. You keep us in the dark until the last minute and force change upon us like ***.

Xeven

blur wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno

How about you let us know the changes coming into the game instead of waiting until patch notes of the patch day 5 minutes before server up?

Seriously, you guys @ ZOS are the absolute worst when it comes to transparency. You keep us in the dark until the last minute and force change upon us like ***.

Jade1986

MrGigglypants wrote: »

YurtTheSilentChief wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

camo hunter is not bugged, stealth and Animation cancalling is.

Sadly, zeni supports animation cancelling (or they have no idea, how to fix it. Since, there is no cool down in each skill like tera online has...)

The games dps would suck without canceling and feel very 1 buttony. Canceling adds a skill set to the game especially on console where there's no macros.

Lol, did you just imply macros = skill?

Jade1986

blur wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno

How about you let us know the changes coming into the game instead of waiting until patch notes of the patch day 5 minutes before server up?

Seriously, you guys @ ZOS are the absolute worst when it comes to transparency. You keep us in the dark until the last minute and force change upon us like ***.

I dont understand why there is no pts to test the changes....

leepalmer95

laced wrote: »

MrGigglypants wrote: »

YurtTheSilentChief wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

camo hunter is not bugged, stealth and Animation cancalling is.

Sadly, zeni supports animation cancelling (or they have no idea, how to fix it. Since, there is no cool down in each skill like tera online has...)

The games dps would suck without canceling and feel very 1 buttony. Canceling adds a skill set to the game especially on console where there's no macros.

Lol, did you just imply macros = skill?

No he said cancelling is skill but the problem on pc is that you don't know who is cancelling properly and who is using macro, console you don't have that problem.