This game needs an economy stimulant right meow

Vangy

@Makkir yes I do see your pov for items such as crafting mats, motifs etc. But there is still good money to be made. I personally still sell tons of items such as tri pots/immovabiltiy pots and I still sell regular stacks of v16 mats. I just price them much lower than Traders and maybe they are getting bought up in zone and reposted in Traders so I'm not too sure about that. But what I do know is that I consistently sell tri pots and columbines very very quickly provided I ask for reasonable prices. The best example I can think of is that I end up with around 30-50 spare columbine and around maybe 50 tri pots spare a week with a little time invested in farming one or 2 times a week. I can easily move the columbine at 250 Gold a piece. Yet I see stacks upon stacks of columbine priced on the Traders at rawlkha at 380 Gold that never seem to move. Maybe the game just needs a little more time for prices to self adjust to the deflated market due to bop. The slow down of sales is inevitable with what zos has done to the economy with BOP. It's hard to make money so it's hard to get people to spend money.

The only way to move things regularly is by creating a need, ie: New players. Or for example I was putting off gearing my sorc to v16 due to the costs of the mats and especially nincrux. When one of my buddies offered me x2 for 20k I jumped at the chance and got my sorc her new dual weilds. If prices dropped it might encourage people to make alts and gear them up or might encourage those to spend on upgrading their v15s to 16s. I know quite a few people who make their farm runs just fine with v15 purples.

Also the eso economy is somewhat of a monopoly. I don't feel that prices will always match demand especially with certain items. Again I'll refer to my example of columbine. If you head to the Traders and look for those selling them it's always the same. And these names pop up again and again with all of the prominent Traders. They are obviously buying them up and reposting them at said price. And these stacks hardly ever move until someone gets them out of desperation or are rich enough. maybe my tin foil hat is on but I don't know. Never liked the guild trader system so my opinion might be skewed. To top it off the common consensus from most of my friends especially those that have been around much longer than me is to avoid guild Traders. They tell me to go to zone chats and shout out for the popular items I need. I've been doing my buying that way for close to a year now and I generally save around 30-40% of what I would have paid if I had used guild Traders. So I contend that selling and buying is still happening. Maybe at a slower rate but just not via guild Traders as much since the general population is kinda broke due to the bop system.

DaveMoeDee

Rebeccas04nub18_ESO wrote: »

I've been noticing the same problem, my stuff isn't selling. I'm getting more and more expired items even when the price is reasonable. I can sell alchemy ingredients and tempers, maybe top level potions and food but that's about it. I got an Ancient Elf motif back from the guild store and I priced it well below what they are supposed to be bringing. It seems to me that what we really need is an influx of new players to buy our wares.

Deflation sounds good to me.

Makkir

Holycannoli wrote: »

Makkir wrote: »

I didn't realize your time was more precious than someone who enjoys the "commerce" aspect of the game.
I mean, that's like asking ZOS to remove emotes because you personally think RPing is a waste of time.

I enjoy commerce in a game, I just don't enjoy having to spend so much time running around trying to find what I want. It's tedious, annoying and an unnecessary waste of time.

I mean hell even in Everquest 16 years ago we didn't have to run around, we just gathered in the EC tunnel and socialized while we were trading. 16 years ago and we still had a better trading system than ESO.

@Holycannoli if you click on my name and check out my profile page, you will see #1 in my wish list is a trade zone. My first MMO was original EQ.

Makkir

Vangy wrote: »

@Makkir yes I do see your pov for items such as crafting mats, motifs etc. But there is still good money to be made. I personally still sell tons of items such as tri pots/immovabiltiy pots and I still sell regular stacks of v16 mats. I just price them much lower than Traders and maybe they are getting bought up in zone and reposted in Traders so I'm not too sure about that. But what I do know is that I consistently sell tri pots and columbines very very quickly provided I ask for reasonable prices. The best example I can think of is that I end up with around 30-50 spare columbine and around maybe 50 tri pots spare a week with a little time invested in farming one or 2 times a week. I can easily move the columbine at 250 Gold a piece. Yet I see stacks upon stacks of columbine priced on the Traders at rawlkha at 380 Gold that never seem to move. Maybe the game just needs a little more time for prices to self adjust to the deflated market due to bop. The slow down of sales is inevitable with what zos has done to the economy with BOP. It's hard to make money so it's hard to get people to spend money.

@Vangy If you refer to my OP, everything you wrote above is basically reflected there. You still sell tons of columbine, tripots, and immovable pots because they are consumables...

Which was kind of the premise behind this entire thread. Need more consumables.

Vangy

@Makkir ah yes somehow I got lost along the thread when I got to the ah vs guild trader post. Yes I do like 1 and 2. The 3rd suggestion however can be complicated. I kinda like that I can get siege for ap. Saves me the gold.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

The reason the economy is in a slump and upgrade mats are rising in price is that there are a lot less ways to actually make money by playing the content and selling your drops.

You used to be able to get in a group and farm Atherian Archive, Hel Ra, Sanctum Ophidia, or DSA for endgame gear. Tons of good, bind on equip, sellable gear would drop from those places. If you liked PvP, you would farm AP and buy drop bags and that gear would sell well too.

Before the Imperial city, the economy was healthy and people who liked to make money for moneys sake were actually encouraged to play the game for the best payoff.

But ZOS decided to INTENTIONALLY not update Trials, VDSA, and the PvP vendor in order to force people to grind BOP gear in orsinium/IC. Because of the gear based economy dried up, and the same people who were happily farming DSA are now resorting to price manipulation to make money.

Before the imperial city we had 15+ BOE endgame jewelry sets. Now we have three. THREE. Build diversity has plummeted and people have given up on the terrible RNG and instead relying on crafted sets which take a ton more upgrade mats to create.

ZOS needs to stop playing coy with trials, DSA, and the elite gear vendor and update them all to V16 ASAP. No, having some weekly reward hidden in the thieved guild DLC where you get V16 for running old trials (but everything that drops in the trial is still V12-V14) will NOT cut it.

Makkir

No, the only reason upgrade mats are rising in price is because their drop rates were nerfed.

code65536

This is nothing unexpected. We knew this would happen when we saw all the BoP on the PTS, yet despite all the comments warning of this outcome on the PTS, ZOS went ahead with this BoP-fest.

In a game where there is such a huge money supply in circulation, we would expect there to be inflation, yet prices are generally deflating. This is a hallmark of a f***ed-up economy.

As for the comments about a centralized AH--that won't solve anything. A centralized AH will just homogenize pricing and make it so that prices would have plummeted even faster than they have. BoP and the sad state of itemization is the downward slope on which we are sliding--an AH would've simply greased the wheels and hastened the slide; don't delude yourself into thinking that a centralized market would've somehow fixed this slope.

Asherons_Call

You want a stimulant right meow?

Ok, here's a cat on coke

KaleidoscopeEyz

The economy stimulant is the noobs that just came in through the Free Play Weekend. Wow! I went from selling blue motifs for 300 to now 1,000. I'm just buying them up and reselling about 20+ a day in a starter zone.

Heindrich

There is liquidity in the economy. Trading volume in Craglorn trade guilds (PC-EU) are still above Pre-IC levels. I have complete historic data (weekly sales) from my trade guild since I took charge of it in July...




*The sharp dip in Oct was partly due to the end of the IC boom, but more importantly because I lost bid for guild trader that one week.

If you doubt my data, please see:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/234354/tamriel-traders-guild-recruiting-power-sellers-number-one-sales-in-eu-pc

The problem thus isn't volume or liquidity, because as mentioned above, there is a lot of gold in the system, but there is lack of variety of stuff to buy. Almost all the new worthwhile VR16 gear is BoP, which means gold is mostly being used for crafting materials and potions.

This is bad news for elite PvE'ers and PvP'ers who used to get rich off being able to farm BoE endgame gear more efficiently than anyone else (vDSA sets and PvP sets like Ravager and Morag Tong). But it's good news for farmers (Imp Sewer trophies, VR15-16 mats, Nirncrux etc) because the value of their work has increased given the lack of other stuff to buy.

Oh and of course, good traders keep getting richer as long as there is stuff to buy and sell...

dodgehopper_ESO

OP: The answer is simple. They have done what every f2p microtransaction MMORPG has done and hijacked a healthy market by selling things people would buy on their crown store. There is nothing to be done about this, its just the way life is. If you're really rich ($ or in game gold) and are able to pull it off you could create the market. Beyond this they've ruined costumes by creating far more interest and diversity selling their art in the Crown store, they've ruined motifs by flooding the economy with easily acquired motif sets, pets, etc. I never needed to buy crafting materials, not once. I always farmed plenty more than I needed. While others do not do that most people can sell what they don't use to afford what they need. SWG would not have been as popular as it was if they had destroyed the economy with microtransactions. As a side note this kills crafting in MMORPG's as well. Crafting is all too often hyped in MMORPG's but when you actually play the game you realize that crafting only benefits your newcomer friends, when you help them level up. End game gear almost never ends up being crafted in MMO's anymore. ESO seems to hybridize that where the best combo is a mix of craft and drop. At any regard when they sell motifs they are cheapening the value of a serious crafter, so its not just the economy that is weakened by this.

TLDR: Cash shops hijack in game economies in MMORGP's to some degree, because the developers are attempting to make money off of those supply&demand desires of the player base.

TheBull

Some idiot thought it was a good idea to make anything desirable BoP... You have him to blame.

PrinceBoru

Tax those Imperial One-Percenters!

Makkir

code65536 wrote: »

As for the comments about a centralized AH--that won't solve anything. A centralized AH will just homogenize pricing and make it so that prices would have plummeted even faster than they have. BoP and the sad state of itemization is the downward slope on which we are sliding--an AH would've simply greased the wheels and hastened the slide; don't delude yourself into thinking that a centralized market would've somehow fixed this slope.

I agree with the AH statements, and is why I wanted to avoid the topic. Those auction houses worked fine in games like World of Warcraft because those are loot centric economies where all the gear was provided by PvE content (BoP raids etc) whereas in player centric or crafter economies all the items are provided by players. ESO started out looking like a player centric economy and was even promised that crafted gear would play a critical role in the economy (And it still somewhat does as just about everyone uses a crafted set) however with the mix of BoP and crafted gear ESO is turning into somewhat a third type of economy. AH's won't work in crafter centric economies where all the gear/weapons are homogenized (meaning the stats are the same regardless who crafts it), unlike games like Star Wars Galaxies where gear stats varied depending on the skill of the crafter.

RAGUNAnoOne

Sausage wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Only one move is needed make more things craftable why keep Iron at max level because you can make seige engines repair kits this could make a lot of things in demand.

I believe Housing is gonna add more craftable stuff, like Furnitures. Furnitures also adds new item to sell and buy.

Unless it is BOP which is highly likely...

Makkir

@Heindrich yeah that looks a bit like ours too. There is absolutely still liquidity in the economy but everything is becoming cheaper and cheaper, and players have enormous amounts of gold in general. I think that's a problem. And as you stated, there just isn't a lot of stuff out there to sell. That's why I am a huge fan of consumables.

Oldmanlawlor

Do I look like a cat to you?!

Am I jumpin' around, all nimbly bimbly?!

XxCartsxX

It has likely been said before, but here goes anyway...
Surely they could monitor sell prices though out all trading guilds to create a market value per item, and therefore a more unpredictable global economy, protected from manipulation by players (to some degree) A compromise between an actual auction house and the current system..

For example a purple recipe sells for 10k at 'x' traders, and a the same recipe sells for 5k at 'y' traders. If I want to sell the same item, and could check the average price or recommended price at that given time, I would see 7.5k and could decide on my price from that.
Obviously, prices will rise and fall with demand, but it would severely cap the rip off prices for some items. Who's going to shell out 20k for an item that I can see recommended for 7.5? Maybe 11 or 12k, if I'm desperate and depending on location

Sure I can do the leg work and visit lots of traders, work it out for myself, but it does take time. It's not quite the same as an action house so I would assume less chance to destroy item value in the market place. They could introduce an NPC that gives limited info 'insider trading' style (that shady character that's always flipping a coin in the local inn) "hey, I hear demand for EBONY INGOTS about to rise in DESHAAN".. I'd pay for top $$ for that kind of info! Even if i got a bounty if caught talking to them.

Back to the original topic, if sell prices/quantities were monitored, the market could be manipulated by ZOS. Which is a good thing, they see an over saturation of a certain item, (someone trying to drive the price down and undercutting)boom, nerf the drop rate for a limited time, item becomes more sought after.

Simple supply and demand, but like any economy, it has to be influenced by external factors in order to create viable markets. I myself enjoy the trading aspect of the game, I feel like this would draw me into it even further - traveling to different zones trying to find trading tips, frantic crafting to try and jump on a market boom...

I'm just a casual player, so I've probably missed or misinterpreted the point.. But I'm having fun doing it, so whatever..

Turelus

Makkir wrote: »

3) Remove Siege from the PvP vendors and instead make it player crafted.

Nuff said here.

While I think player made seige would be awesome this wouldn't work (currently) because PvP doesn't pay in gold.

Gidorick

@MrDerrikk well done sir!

MrDerrikk

@Gidorick, what did I do this time?

Gidorick

When the conversation turned to an Auction House you very promptly jumped on the opportunity to post the Auction Horse.

MrDerrikk wrote: »

@Desommettor

Obligatory link:

forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/159594/eso-needs-an-auction-horse-expanded-concept/p1

Just giving props where props are due @MrDerrikk .

gw2only1b14_ESO

Gidorick wrote: »

@MrDerrikk well done sir!

lulz Ash for Win

gw2only1b14_ESO

silky_soft wrote: »

You know what would help the economy? Rubedo leather, kuta and yellow tempers. Also purple HP and 2 regen food/drinks.

Bro don't forget the Potent Crux as well...

FortheloveofKrist

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

OP: The answer is simple. They have done what every f2p microtransaction MMORPG has done and hijacked a healthy market by selling things people would buy on their crown store. There is nothing to be done about this, its just the way life is. If you're really rich ($ or in game gold) and are able to pull it off you could create the market. Beyond this they've ruined costumes by creating far more interest and diversity selling their art in the Crown store, they've ruined motifs by flooding the economy with easily acquired motif sets, pets, etc. I never needed to buy crafting materials, not once. I always farmed plenty more than I needed. While others do not do that most people can sell what they don't use to afford what they need. SWG would not have been as popular as it was if they had destroyed the economy with microtransactions. As a side note this kills crafting in MMORPG's as well. Crafting is all too often hyped in MMORPG's but when you actually play the game you realize that crafting only benefits your newcomer friends, when you help them level up. End game gear almost never ends up being crafted in MMO's anymore. ESO seems to hybridize that where the best combo is a mix of craft and drop. At any regard when they sell motifs they are cheapening the value of a serious crafter, so its not just the economy that is weakened by this.

TLDR: Cash shops hijack in game economies in MMORGP's to some degree, because the developers are attempting to make money off of those supply&demand desires of the player base.

Yup.

Thank you. You saved me a lot of typing.

Hand_Bacon

An economy benefits from new markets.

• Craftable Housing Features
• Craftable Siege (like Daoc had). This could include all crafting professions.
• Put those negative potions to work.

An economy benefits from new resources.

• New DLC every quarter goes a long way to sprinkle in new stuff.
• An unlocking system for some bound items. Select items unlocked by drops (see Daoc scrolls)
• New items that drop out of refining raw materials. Maybe a tradable dye or two, etc.
• New level or style of armor crafted by combining old material to recycle old mats. (ex. 10 steel, 10 galatite, 100 voidstone makes x)

KelzESO

wowzers

Rylana

Economy is really bad over the last 2-3 months.

Every drop is flooded in stores, the only things selling well are ultra rares or gold tempers. Even alchemy related stuff is on a downturn.

Just a glut of supply, has been for a long time.

In other news: WTS Rings of Falsalla's Guile 800g (and thats a ripoff)

Makkir

Maybe gear should break like it did in SWG
/evil grin