Temporary Small-Scale PvP Solution - Let's Agree to Make Haderus a Small Scale PvP Zone

Takllin

Psilent wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

Psilent wrote: »

Rickter wrote: »

Psilent wrote: »

Rickter wrote: »

what is a zerg these days?!

On these forums a zerg is anything between 2 to 100+ players.

4 EP on a resource, including the 100% no damage support build EMPEROR. We let them kill the guards and crashed them with the 6 of us and this EP STREAMER literally says "wrecked by the DC Zerg, lel"

Like I know I'm stirring the pot a little here but I'm just trying to point out to you all that this is the kind of *** mentality we're dealing with on Haderus. This "small scale rules of engagement" proposal will never work with people thinking that 6 v 4+Emp is being zerged.

Change starts with you in your heart. But egos will just make us all wanna do our own thing. Own up to your BS. EP's emperor on Haderus is pure support. Straight up resto staff healing springs BoL nova drop SPAM. With that kind of power you are going to get zerged every time. Expect it and own up to it. Period.

Then we can talk.

You misunderstand. I agree with you; six players is not a zerg, but people on these forums call anything that out numbers them a zerg. The word has no meaning anymore.

This ^ So much of this. If Group A is running 2 people, and Group B is running 4 people. Group A considers Group B a zerg, solely because they have more numbers than them. It's ridiculous.

I've always considered zerging to be what I used to do when I played Starcraft. Select the zerg race, then tech up to get hydralisks; then get the upgrade to overlords so they can carry units. Amass like 70 zerglings and just have them attack everything between my base and the enemy. While my overlords carry hydralisks to the resource line of the enemy and wipe them out.

In a nut shell, once I told the zerglings to attack, that's all I did with them. No more micro-managing, until they started to die and I'd have more being produced to keep hitting the enemy; i.e, AD/EP running from Alessia-Sej over and over and over. While my small group of hydralisks would attack the resource line and wipe it out; i.e., organized guild play in Cyrodiil where people hit the Alessia farm or hit the drakelowe side of Sejanus.

6 players against 11 is just being outnumbered. Congrats if the 6 win, if they lose oh well, you were outnumbered.

Completely agree. You'd swear that the people screaming zerg whenever they are outnumbered have either A. never played Starcraft, or B. never seen a real zerg.

It's as if they need to make an excuse for dying, they can't accept the fact that they might not have been the better player or team at that point in time.

I also chuckle at this one too. When people *** and moan that after they wiped people a few times, they either decided to bring friends or their faction members ran over to support/see what the action was. Take that as a compliment, that they needed to bring more people to beat you. Would you rather they give up and run away?

_Chaos

OdinForge wrote: »

We organized a successful dueling event between several guilds on each faction. Hopefully things like this go a long way to smoothing relations, and getting people comfortable with their builds and skill, in turn relying less on numbers.

Good fights to everyone involved.

I had to work OT Friday, rest assured I'll be there with bells on for round two

OdinForge

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

We organized a successful dueling event between several guilds on each faction. Hopefully things like this go a long way to smoothing relations, and getting people comfortable with their builds and skill, in turn relying less on numbers.

Good fights to everyone involved.

I had to work OT Friday, rest assured I'll be there with bells on for round two

I intend to attempt to make this a recurring weekly event, but we might switch from Friday to Saturday (especially this week). I'll make updates via this thread, for anyone that might be interested.

Minno

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Question - Why is DC on haderus pop-locked?

What was all this discussion about zerging guys.

I think Legends was dueling on Haderus tonight and it was mostly DC. I think it was only 1 bar pop at keeps.

Also IC, I noticed at least one farm group of DC in there.

nugelhoffub17_ESO

@OdinForge

I know DiG enjoyed last week and would love to try our hands at it again, so please keep me posted

OdinForge

nugelhoffub17_ESO wrote: »

@OdinForge

I know DiG enjoyed last week and would love to try our hands at it again, so please keep me posted

Give me a day that might work better for DiG, be it a Friday or Saturday etc. We're looking to avoid this Friday the 25th, and hoping to do this again the day after, Sat the 26th.

Rickter

23 DC defending against AD and EP for emp, just letting you know so "zerg" isnt abused

mike.eso

^Zerg

Rickter

we are "aggressively defending our emperorship" i think is what someone said earlier in this thread

Rickter

EP has just as many if not more and there is an AD group as well.

Rickter

2 bar DC 3 bar everyone else

Turtl3Lov3

Rickter wrote: »

2 bar DC 3 bar everyone else

Clearly what a Zerg would say.

mike.eso

^^agreed

Xexpo

Maybe EP should pop lock the server to be on the safe side...

Rylana

Oh I wont be complaining about numbers, sorry Kiki and Rikter, I know it was troll bait. Sorry to disappoint. If anything the multiple wipes on your group were more delicious for us than any of our losses were for you, believe that. XD om nomnomnomnom

My only mention of population is that Deathshead Legion had some kinda IC event going on tonight, so at least one bar of EPs pop was in the sewers all night, not even up on the map.

What I will say is AD is dumb as rocks man, we literally had the dethrone at Roebeck (most of the defenders dead or contained outside), and AD screwed it up by hitting us and letting DC rez, and then got wiped themselves. with like 40 people. gg.

All in all though, that crazy courtyard fight with VirCor/Subtomiks group and later vs the same group at Aleswell mine, those were some daaaaamn fine battles of movement and strategy. Especially at aleswell, that was almost 10 straight minutes of 15 v 15 (or close to that) on and around those stairs with neither side able to wipe the other.

Sad we lost that one on a late mitigation call, I wanted that one. Especially since it was only about seven GoS there, the rest were some of Cfal's friends we had never played with before. Good players, just not used to our style.


All that being said - Whatever EP guild decided to try to cap ash from yellow when only aleswell was left for blue, and pretty much enabled that blue backcap, ended the nights dethrone attempt. That was just bad, and I said so in zone.

Not a bad bunch of fights tonight, 15.2 KDR. almost 100k AP in about 4 hours play on a lower pop campaign pretty much all on offense, too. Christmas eve is here. See you next time.


One last question DC - how many camps you burn tonight between Roebeck and Aleswell? 12? O_o

Rickter

we used 4. i mean, i get the friendly competition, i really do, but lets all be honest here, i think everyone AD, DC, EP were very confident that we would lose our emperor tonight. but 20-23 of us held out. yes we used some camps but we were sieged from two fronts. we played to win. and by the end of the night, we're still standing and we still have emp. big win for our faction and im really proud of the collaboration and determination from us.

Rylana

Rickter wrote: »

we used 4. i mean, i get the friendly competition, i really do, but lets all be honest here, i think everyone AD, DC, EP were very confident that we would lose our emperor tonight. but 20-23 of us held out. yes we used some camps but we were sieged from two fronts. we played to win. and by the end of the night, we're still standing and we still have emp. big win for our faction and im really proud of the collaboration and determination from us.

Your group might have been 20ish, but you also had subs group of 12-15 rolling around. So give them some credit, they quite literally saved Roebeck (that was clutch, cause we had ya all wiped, ad wiped us, and subs group wiped AD after they got rezzed up, was pretty damn hilarious). In fact I saw more of them than you tonight, I think you were fighting over glade and that other EP group with the scrolls and whatever.

Only time I saw you was really early in the night and right at ash/roe at the end at bleaks before i disbanded for the night cause its Xmas and most people are off for the night.

Xexpo

@Rylana AP was delicious all around GF


tbh i dont think those camps were even needed tho
overkill imo


Fun night!

Rickter

there was one other group we coordinated with. and you were not the only EP group out there either so i mean, its all fair

Rylana

Well new cycle of haderus. Nonwithstanding the fact my fourth reign came and went today as emp, the whole day was kind of a joke. The fact blue kept intentionally interfering with any attempt for red to take BRK back from yellow, and yellow intentionally interfering with any attempt for red to take back chalman from DC was just appalling. Its like Azuras 2.0 now in fricken prime time, get your goddamned zergs out of here.

Its pretty clear the smaller group mentality is gone. Sure youll see a sixpack of fengrush and co on occasion, hell we crowned me emp with five members of GoS at roebeck. Just around 3am EST. (blue had died down, but yellow still had some decent size numbers, a little late, but wasnt pvdoor at least)

But.... over the course of the day, I saw a literal 40 man DC blob in prime at chalman, at least 50 AD take BRK at one point, my group running anywhere from 5-15 through most of it. Why in the blue hell are your two factions stacking that many people in keeps? Wasnt it you guys that bitched to holy heaven about GoS running 12-15 sometimes? And youre bringing fricken FORTY?

I mean be real, AD with 50 guys, DC with about 40 guys, ganging up on red with maybe 30 total guys (less than half being GoS). 90 v 30? Yeah, real classy. Zerg more please? jesus.

But what really got me.... the blue blob known as order of mundus that showed up at literally 8am eastern to crown their emp vs four (at one point five) GoS defenders. 20 of them, really? GoS pushed the ring in aussie/west coast primetime with less than half of that. We stayed true to the deal to keep groups small, i didnt even all-call the guild or anything. But you bring a whole raid, at that time of morning? WTF?

Um. Do we have to start fielding full groups all the time again? Cause apparently taking the moral high ground and limiting our group size (especially in off-hours) is just hamstringing ourselves. Both AD and DC seem to liberally apply the "stack as many as you can on a flag and spam steel tornado and barriers just like we do on azuras guise" mentality all around the clock. WHINE WHINE ITS ONLY BAD WHEN YOU DO IT, ITS FINE WHEN WE DO IT THREE TIMES WORSE.

Im getting pretty sick of it, and im done giving out handicaps. if i see a single or double, im just gonna zerg it down now, i really dont care anymore. Tonight really pissed me off.

OdinForge

Pretty sure the small-man group thing is over, last night was a *** show. Ironically CKA just officially stepped away from bigger groups, committing full-time to 8 man groups or less with single target in mind.

It's too hard to get people in group, too hard to get everyone on the same server or on the same page. On top of that it's hard to find good fights, where we aren't stacking with random EP pugs or completely alone facing an Emp group of 15+ defending Farragut or something, PvP is dying.

But on the bright side, CKA & Legion XIII have been co-organizing some great weekly dueling nights on Haderus between all three factions (not Legend based). Where we've been able to do everything from 1v1s to 2v2 or even group v group, DiG from AD has been involved, Legion XIII from DC and CKA from EP. Plus many other names and faces from each faction and various other guilds.

This last weekend was such a great turnout, hoping to keep it moving this week. Our way from taking a break from the stress of this games PvP system, to get some fun small fighting in, if even for just a few hours a week.

Takllin

Yeah, honestly, I dunno how you thought this would turn out any other way...

People go where they see action. All this posturing is rather silly. Trueflame has more or less burned out and people are going to Haderus instead.

OdinForge

Takllin wrote: »

Yeah, honestly, I dunno how you thought this would turn out any other way...

People go where they see action. All this posturing is rather silly. Trueflame has more or less burned out and people are going to Haderus instead.

Everything is worth a try, even if it doesn't work out. Some good came out of this thread, just might not be obvious to you.

Takllin

OdinForge wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

Yeah, honestly, I dunno how you thought this would turn out any other way...

People go where they see action. All this posturing is rather silly. Trueflame has more or less burned out and people are going to Haderus instead.

Everything is worth a try, even if it doesn't work out. Some good came out of this thread, just might not be obvious to you.

Where did I say it didn't?

I just don't understand all the rage about this happening. It was inevitable. It always happens. In a few weeks a new small scale server will pop up, people will slowly congregate over there until there is a mass exodus from another, and then the small scale gets ruined.

C'est la vie.

Scamandros

Rylana wrote: »

Well new cycle of haderus. Nonwithstanding the fact my fourth reign came and went today as emp, the whole day was kind of a joke. The fact blue kept intentionally interfering with any attempt for red to take BRK back from yellow, and yellow intentionally interfering with any attempt for red to take back chalman from DC was just appalling. Its like Azuras 2.0 now in fricken prime time, get your goddamned zergs out of here.

Its pretty clear the smaller group mentality is gone. Sure youll see a sixpack of fengrush and co on occasion, hell we crowned me emp with five members of GoS at roebeck. Just around 3am EST. (blue had died down, but yellow still had some decent size numbers, a little late, but wasnt pvdoor at least)

But.... over the course of the day, I saw a literal 40 man DC blob in prime at chalman, at least 50 AD take BRK at one point, my group running anywhere from 5-15 through most of it. Why in the blue hell are your two factions stacking that many people in keeps? Wasnt it you guys that bitched to holy heaven about GoS running 12-15 sometimes? And youre bringing fricken FORTY?

I mean be real, AD with 50 guys, DC with about 40 guys, ganging up on red with maybe 30 total guys (less than half being GoS). 90 v 30? Yeah, real classy. Zerg more please? jesus.

But what really got me.... the blue blob known as order of mundus that showed up at literally 8am eastern to crown their emp vs four (at one point five) GoS defenders. 20 of them, really? GoS pushed the ring in aussie/west coast primetime with less than half of that. We stayed true to the deal to keep groups small, i didnt even all-call the guild or anything. But you bring a whole raid, at that time of morning? WTF?

Um. Do we have to start fielding full groups all the time again? Cause apparently taking the moral high ground and limiting our group size (especially in off-hours) is just hamstringing ourselves. Both AD and DC seem to liberally apply the "stack as many as you can on a flag and spam steel tornado and barriers just like we do on azuras guise" mentality all around the clock. WHINE WHINE ITS ONLY BAD WHEN YOU DO IT, ITS FINE WHEN WE DO IT THREE TIMES WORSE.

Im getting pretty sick of it, and im done giving out handicaps. if i see a single or double, im just gonna zerg it down now, i really dont care anymore. Tonight really pissed me off.

I will share with you some wise words that EP have told me to get me through similar situations

"Its not our fault if your team chooses to quit before we arrive"
and
"We are just helping out a mate", which makes everything a-okay


On a serious note it's first day of campaign and it's always nuts, order of mundus in particular rarely show up in force any other day. I think it is about impossible to enforce everyone to small scale, and too often payback ends up affecting people who were not the culprits anyway. Ideally people should have some self control: if the fighting is good sure bring along another friend or two, but be able to recognize when the situation changes and you aren't really needed anymore. If they can't do that then idk, but completely demoralizing random people seems drastic. Like you said earlier some people still hold grudges from back in thornblade etc, I'd rather not be making new ones.

Campaigns had alot of ups and downs, but I think its been more balanced and active then it has for a while(still far from perfect). As frustrated as I get sometimes I am still thankful this campaign is here as an alternative. Shout out next time there is a friendly duel/chill out session

FENGRUSH

Scamandros wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Well new cycle of haderus. Nonwithstanding the fact my fourth reign came and went today as emp, the whole day was kind of a joke. The fact blue kept intentionally interfering with any attempt for red to take BRK back from yellow, and yellow intentionally interfering with any attempt for red to take back chalman from DC was just appalling. Its like Azuras 2.0 now in fricken prime time, get your goddamned zergs out of here.

Its pretty clear the smaller group mentality is gone. Sure youll see a sixpack of fengrush and co on occasion, hell we crowned me emp with five members of GoS at roebeck. Just around 3am EST. (blue had died down, but yellow still had some decent size numbers, a little late, but wasnt pvdoor at least)

But.... over the course of the day, I saw a literal 40 man DC blob in prime at chalman, at least 50 AD take BRK at one point, my group running anywhere from 5-15 through most of it. Why in the blue hell are your two factions stacking that many people in keeps? Wasnt it you guys that bitched to holy heaven about GoS running 12-15 sometimes? And youre bringing fricken FORTY?

I mean be real, AD with 50 guys, DC with about 40 guys, ganging up on red with maybe 30 total guys (less than half being GoS). 90 v 30? Yeah, real classy. Zerg more please? jesus.

But what really got me.... the blue blob known as order of mundus that showed up at literally 8am eastern to crown their emp vs four (at one point five) GoS defenders. 20 of them, really? GoS pushed the ring in aussie/west coast primetime with less than half of that. We stayed true to the deal to keep groups small, i didnt even all-call the guild or anything. But you bring a whole raid, at that time of morning? WTF?

Um. Do we have to start fielding full groups all the time again? Cause apparently taking the moral high ground and limiting our group size (especially in off-hours) is just hamstringing ourselves. Both AD and DC seem to liberally apply the "stack as many as you can on a flag and spam steel tornado and barriers just like we do on azuras guise" mentality all around the clock. WHINE WHINE ITS ONLY BAD WHEN YOU DO IT, ITS FINE WHEN WE DO IT THREE TIMES WORSE.

Im getting pretty sick of it, and im done giving out handicaps. if i see a single or double, im just gonna zerg it down now, i really dont care anymore. Tonight really pissed me off.

I will share with you some wise words that EP have told me to get me through similar situations

"We are just helping out a mate", which makes everything a-okay

Damn they used that one on you too?

Radnil

Whats a haderus?

Erynyes

the 2 yellow and blue zerg ball that ignored each other in BRK courtyard for over 30 min was priceless, want some competitive fight, nah, we'll avoid it at all cost

Rickter

small scale mentality is dead confirmed by Rylana on 12/27

Requiem is pretty casual and we were running maximum 11 people. this dropped to 8 by 11pm est.

couldnt do anything against the yellow zerg south or the red zerg north. called it at around 1am.

a few new DC guilds are here this week for sure. and they probably were not given the heads up. anyways, it is what it is. we'll adjust.

DaveMoeDee

Manoekin wrote: »

dantator wrote: »

IMO, the way to go about this plan is to make a separate guild specifically having all the major guild leaders communicating with each other (kind like the "Banana Phone" we had in AD at some point) so that there won't be any miscommunication.

It's harder to do in practice. Something like this already somewhat exists though we don't use it to coordinate guilds really. PvP players have egos, and it's hard enough to keep people from killing each other. I wouldn't be opposed to inviting more people though. Will talk about it with the current people if there's interest in that.

I love the absurdity of keeping PvP players from killing each other.