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Templar issues thread
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Cinbri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Thats how animation looked at the end of cast for proof.Oh i missed the irony then.. How the *** did that miss!? I'm amazed.
Did BS misses too? It seems so i think, there is only wolf's power attack animation in there, no hit animation of bs.BS hitted wolf, it stayed just 1m near, no way it could miss.
Edited by Cinbri on January 25, 2016 8:32PM1 -
SneaK✭✭✭✭✭Total Dark = Good
-- Make the other morph of Eclipse do --
Surround yourself in a protective aura, granting immunity to knockbacks and disabling effects for 8 seconds, and providing a X heal over 20 seconds....
Game on.Edited by SneaK on January 25, 2016 10:10PM"IMO"Aldmeri DominionBosmer Nightblade AR 32 - Altmer Templar AR 26 - Dunmer Dragonknight AR 18 - Altmer Sorcerer AR 20 - Khajiit Dragonknight AR 18(+3 not worth mentioning, yet)9 -
AOECAPS✭✭✭✭Lmao that ult is just ;_; tried to make a Zerg buster build with ward and that ult. Used it 1 time realized I missed every single person in front of me replaced it with dawnbreaker again. Real sad thing as a stamplar I only have skill points in a handful of passives and abilities since they are a complete waste with a stamina build5
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Callidus_Est✭✭Total Dark = Good
-- Make the other morph of Eclipse do --
Surround yourself in a protective aura, granting immunity to knockbacks and disabling effects for 8 seconds, and providing a X heal over 20 seconds....
Game on.
Heal tanks would be un-killable.Salmion Loreius - V16 Templar Healer
Filramo Loreius - V16 Sorcerer Tank
Callidus Est - V16 Magicka Nightblade PvP
Callius Alfeon - V4 Stamina Templar0 -
dodgehopper_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Callidus_Est wrote: »
This is the problem with Breath of Life. I don't think ZoS can wrap their head around anything but this skill, but if they ruin breath of life there will truly be no reason to play Templar anymore, particularly with their plans to swing the wrecking ball at purge skills in pvp coming up. That just isn't a good state for the class to be in, particularly when breath of life is only useful as a magplar all of which runs against the balanced warrior passive, one of the few decent passives the class has.
I tend to agree though, I'd rather see a morph like this just be a copycat of Reflective Scales if they're going to simplify. I'd also rather they just turned Toppling/Focused Charge into a golden Ambush since we know at least that Ambush code works. This is my complaint with the class as a whole, comparable skills of other classes work, and Templar does not. The weird thing is that class skills are supposed to be good.
US/AD - Dodge Hopper - Vet Imperial Templar | US/AD - Goj-ei-Raj - Vet Argonian Nightblade
US/AD - Arondonimo - Vet Altmer Sorcerer | US/AD - Azumarax - Vet Dunmer Dragon Knight
US/AD - Barkan al-Sheharesh - Vet Redguard Dragon Knight | US/AD - Aelus Vortavoriil - Vet Altmer Templar
US/AD - Shirari Qa'Dar - Vet Khajiit Nightblade | US/AD - Ndvari Mzunchvolenthumz - Vet Bosmer Nightblade
US/EP - Yngmar - Vet Nord Dragon Knight | US/EP - Reloth Ur Fyr - Vet Dunmer Sorcerer
US/DC - Muiredeach - Vet Breton Sorcerer | US/DC - Nachtrabe - Vet Orc Nightblade
EU/DC - Dragol gro-Unglak - Vet Orc Dragon Knight | EU/DC - Targan al-Barkan - Vet Redguard Templar
EU/DC - Wuthmir - Vet Nord Sorcerer | EU/DC - Kosh Ragotoro - Vet Khajiit Nightblade
<And plenty more>3 -
Soris✭✭✭✭✭
✭Callidus_Est wrote: »
Maybe because that's the purpose of the build? If people can literally kill under one sec, then tough heal/tank builds have right to exist at the same power level of those one shot builds.
As an another example, steel tornado hits around 6k up to 6 people in 10m radius, costs almost nothing and gains stamina for each kill + axe bleeds if caster have it, but there is no heal/shield equivalent to that power level. Only maybe Lingering Ritual but it has 2 sec cast time.
I dont thing adding more powerful defensive options to game will make players "unkillable". No one was unkillable back then when there were no wrecking blows criting for 15k. Everyone was super tanky with shield stacks, perma blocking and impen, immovable spam and all those *** but we still were dying everyday hundreds of times. Even Sheliza the (so called) Unkillable was dying lol.Welkynd [Templar/AD/EU]4 -
Callidus_Est✭✭Callidus_Est wrote: »
Maybe because that's the purpose of the build? If people can literally kill under one sec, then tough heal/tank builds have right to exist at the same power level of those one shot builds.
As an another example, steel tornado hits around 6k up to 6 people in 10m radius, costs almost nothing and gains stamina for each kill + axe bleeds if caster have it, but there is no heal/shield equivalent to that power level. Only maybe Lingering Ritual but it has 2 sec cast time.
I dont thing adding more powerful defensive options to game will make players "unkillable". No one was unkillable back then when there were no wrecking blows criting for 15k. Everyone was super tanky with shield stacks, perma blocking and impen, immovable spam and all those *** but we still were dying everyday hundreds of times. Even Sheliza the (so called) Unkillable was dying lol.
Think about that for a second, the way everyone kills Templars is by CCing them. If you gave them a MAGICKA immovable, you would not be able to kill them. Every class is powerful, but you need a way to kill them. that's the problem with Sorcs right now, and that would put Templars in the same problem.Salmion Loreius - V16 Templar Healer
Filramo Loreius - V16 Sorcerer Tank
Callidus Est - V16 Magicka Nightblade PvP
Callius Alfeon - V4 Stamina Templar1 -
Kaliki✭✭✭✭Callidus_Est wrote: »Callidus_Est wrote: »
Maybe because that's the purpose of the build? If people can literally kill under one sec, then tough heal/tank builds have right to exist at the same power level of those one shot builds.
As an another example, steel tornado hits around 6k up to 6 people in 10m radius, costs almost nothing and gains stamina for each kill + axe bleeds if caster have it, but there is no heal/shield equivalent to that power level. Only maybe Lingering Ritual but it has 2 sec cast time.
I dont thing adding more powerful defensive options to game will make players "unkillable". No one was unkillable back then when there were no wrecking blows criting for 15k. Everyone was super tanky with shield stacks, perma blocking and impen, immovable spam and all those *** but we still were dying everyday hundreds of times. Even Sheliza the (so called) Unkillable was dying lol.
Think about that for a second, the way everyone kills Templars is by CCing them. If you gave them a MAGICKA immovable, you would not be able to kill them. Every class is powerful, but you need a way to kill them. that's the problem with Sorcs right now, and that would put Templars in the same problem.
I basically agree, but its funny if you argue against a templar buff saying that they would be as OP as another class already is.
And even with a magicka immovable templars would still have no way of getting away from a fight...- Templars: Slower by Design® -1 -
Cinbri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
It is more "problematic":Callidus_Est wrote: »Callidus_Est wrote: »
Maybe because that's the purpose of the build? If people can literally kill under one sec, then tough heal/tank builds have right to exist at the same power level of those one shot builds.
As an another example, steel tornado hits around 6k up to 6 people in 10m radius, costs almost nothing and gains stamina for each kill + axe bleeds if caster have it, but there is no heal/shield equivalent to that power level. Only maybe Lingering Ritual but it has 2 sec cast time.
I dont thing adding more powerful defensive options to game will make players "unkillable". No one was unkillable back then when there were no wrecking blows criting for 15k. Everyone was super tanky with shield stacks, perma blocking and impen, immovable spam and all those *** but we still were dying everyday hundreds of times. Even Sheliza the (so called) Unkillable was dying lol.
Think about that for a second, the way everyone kills Templars is by CCing them. If you gave them a MAGICKA immovable, you would not be able to kill them. Every class is powerful, but you need a way to kill them. that's the problem with Sorcs right now, and that would put Templars in the same problem.
1. NBs and sorcs are OP in compare with dks and templars, so does making dks and templars OP will equalize classes?(yes, i prefer to see dks and temps buffed instead of sorcs and nbs nerfed, like rest of forum ask)
2. When dks will be fixed [especially skills like DragonBlood], dks will be on top of food chain again coz people already changed their builds to increase their survivability. With such obvious sustain fixes and promised DD capability buffed, DKs magicka dks will run Cyro again. So templars,if they won't get noticeble defensive mechanics, will be on bottom of food chain again; but now without magicka dks buddies, i.e. same situation that happened after 1.5.
3. Even this suggestion about Eclipse won't make this skill better than Blinding Flashes, and BF were removed not coz it was OP in PvP, but because it was OP in PvE(LOL?). However i agree, ability in Dawn Wrath tree should have some damage output, not to be pure defense, even Searing Light morph of BL prevoiusly had 8m aoe damage in addition to granted defense.
4. Lets be honest, BoL is only thing that keeps templars alive in Cyro, templars invested all resources to buff healing output and forced to play healers in heavy armor. 1 skill for defense is perfect example how terrible current situation with class. I won't mind such things like LoS for BoL to prevent it from abusing but giving other defensive skills. DK' with fixed DragonBlood healing output equal to Templar with Honor the Dead, but unlike templar they have scales, aoe interrupts, aoe damage mitigations(like Choking Talons), so they require to invest much less resources in defense and thats allowing them to be stronger DD than templars. DK who will invest as much resources in defense as templar forced to, will be 5 times tougher than templar.
In the end, obviously ZOS already implemented their changes and our decisions won't make any difference till we try new skills on pts.
Edited by Cinbri on January 26, 2016 8:17AM6 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
It is more "problematic":Callidus_Est wrote: »Callidus_Est wrote: »
Maybe because that's the purpose of the build? If people can literally kill under one sec, then tough heal/tank builds have right to exist at the same power level of those one shot builds.
As an another example, steel tornado hits around 6k up to 6 people in 10m radius, costs almost nothing and gains stamina for each kill + axe bleeds if caster have it, but there is no heal/shield equivalent to that power level. Only maybe Lingering Ritual but it has 2 sec cast time.
I dont thing adding more powerful defensive options to game will make players "unkillable". No one was unkillable back then when there were no wrecking blows criting for 15k. Everyone was super tanky with shield stacks, perma blocking and impen, immovable spam and all those *** but we still were dying everyday hundreds of times. Even Sheliza the (so called) Unkillable was dying lol.
Think about that for a second, the way everyone kills Templars is by CCing them. If you gave them a MAGICKA immovable, you would not be able to kill them. Every class is powerful, but you need a way to kill them. that's the problem with Sorcs right now, and that would put Templars in the same problem.
1. NBs and sorcs are OP in compare with dks and templars, so does making dks and templars OP will equalize classes?(yes, i prefer to see dks and temps buffed instead of sorcs and nbs nerfed, like rest of forum ask)
2. When dks will be fixed [especially skills like DragonBlood], dks will be on top of food chain again coz people already changed their builds to increase their survivability. With such obvious sustain fixes and promised DD capability buffed, DKs magicka dks will run Cyro again. So templars,if they won't get noticeble defensive mechanics, will be on bottom of food chain again; but now without magicka dks buddies, i.e. same situation that happened after 1.5.
3. Even this suggestion about Eclipse won't make this skill better than Blinding Flashes, and BF were removed not coz it was OP in PvP, but because it was OP in PvE(LOL?). However i agree, ability in Dawn Wrath tree should have some damage output, not to be pure defense, even Searing Light morph of BL prevoiusly had 8m aoe damage in addition to granted defense.
4. Lets be honest, BoL is only thing that keeps templars alive in Cyro, templars invested all resources to buff healing output and forced to play healers in heavy armor. 1 skill for defense is perfect example how terrible current situation with class. I won't mind such things like LoS for BoL to prevent it from abusing but giving other defensive skills. DK' with fixed DragonBlood healing output equal to Templar with Honor the Dead, but unlike templar they have scales, aoe interrupts, aoe damage mitigations(like Choking Talons), so they require to invest much less resources in defense and thats allowing them to be stronger DD than templars. DK who will invest as much resources in defense as templar forced to, will be 5 times tougher than templar.
In the end, obviously ZOS already implemented their changes and our decisions won't make any difference till we try new skills on pts.
People keep saying dk's are more 'tanky' than other classes, im curious how so?PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
Cinbri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
It much more tanky in compare with another "hold your ground" class - templar.leepalmer95 wrote: »
It is more "problematic":Callidus_Est wrote: »Callidus_Est wrote: »
Maybe because that's the purpose of the build? If people can literally kill under one sec, then tough heal/tank builds have right to exist at the same power level of those one shot builds.
As an another example, steel tornado hits around 6k up to 6 people in 10m radius, costs almost nothing and gains stamina for each kill + axe bleeds if caster have it, but there is no heal/shield equivalent to that power level. Only maybe Lingering Ritual but it has 2 sec cast time.
I dont thing adding more powerful defensive options to game will make players "unkillable". No one was unkillable back then when there were no wrecking blows criting for 15k. Everyone was super tanky with shield stacks, perma blocking and impen, immovable spam and all those *** but we still were dying everyday hundreds of times. Even Sheliza the (so called) Unkillable was dying lol.
Think about that for a second, the way everyone kills Templars is by CCing them. If you gave them a MAGICKA immovable, you would not be able to kill them. Every class is powerful, but you need a way to kill them. that's the problem with Sorcs right now, and that would put Templars in the same problem.
1. NBs and sorcs are OP in compare with dks and templars, so does making dks and templars OP will equalize classes?(yes, i prefer to see dks and temps buffed instead of sorcs and nbs nerfed, like rest of forum ask)
2. When dks will be fixed [especially skills like DragonBlood], dks will be on top of food chain again coz people already changed their builds to increase their survivability. With such obvious sustain fixes and promised DD capability buffed, DKs magicka dks will run Cyro again. So templars,if they won't get noticeble defensive mechanics, will be on bottom of food chain again; but now without magicka dks buddies, i.e. same situation that happened after 1.5.
3. Even this suggestion about Eclipse won't make this skill better than Blinding Flashes, and BF were removed not coz it was OP in PvP, but because it was OP in PvE(LOL?). However i agree, ability in Dawn Wrath tree should have some damage output, not to be pure defense, even Searing Light morph of BL prevoiusly had 8m aoe damage in addition to granted defense.
4. Lets be honest, BoL is only thing that keeps templars alive in Cyro, templars invested all resources to buff healing output and forced to play healers in heavy armor. 1 skill for defense is perfect example how terrible current situation with class. I won't mind such things like LoS for BoL to prevent it from abusing but giving other defensive skills. DK' with fixed DragonBlood healing output equal to Templar with Honor the Dead, but unlike templar they have scales, aoe interrupts, aoe damage mitigations(like Choking Talons), so they require to invest much less resources in defense and thats allowing them to be stronger DD than templars. DK who will invest as much resources in defense as templar forced to, will be 5 times tougher than templar.
In the end, obviously ZOS already implemented their changes and our decisions won't make any difference till we try new skills on pts.
People keep saying dk's are more 'tanky' than other classes, im curious how so?
1. They have 2 passives to restore resources. i.e. 2 passives to restore stamina allowing to hold block much-much longer. Templar has only such weird thing like Repentance
2. They have magical wings of fairy dragon called Scales. Imagine that 4 Frags or 4 Lethal Arrows flying toward you and each will hit you for 8k=32k damage in total. And pressing 1magic button making you negate this 32k damage. Even BoL looks pale in compare to this
3. They have best defensive ultimates(Standart apply damage mitigation buff on you, unlike Nova that apply only damage debuff on enemy, zero enemies in Nova=zero effect. Leap grants solid damage shield in addition to high damage and solid CC, Armor making you literally god-mode for 9 sec). Btw i imagine insane damage magicka dks will deal if one morph of Leap will be changed to deal elemental/magical damage.
4. They have aoe root skill(Choking Talons) that doing literally what Empowering Sweep ult doing for templar.
5. They can blockcasting their skills, so they don't need to hold-off block to fight enemy. Unlike templar, who dd skills are mostly channeled.
6. They probably will have back fixed DragonBlood that equal to templar Honor the Dead, i.e. evey dk again will be as good at self-healing as templar.
^^^this is more than enough to be best tanks.Edited by Cinbri on January 26, 2016 9:13AM7 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
It much more tanky in compare with another "hold your ground" class - templar.leepalmer95 wrote: »
It is more "problematic":Callidus_Est wrote: »Callidus_Est wrote: »
Maybe because that's the purpose of the build? If people can literally kill under one sec, then tough heal/tank builds have right to exist at the same power level of those one shot builds.
As an another example, steel tornado hits around 6k up to 6 people in 10m radius, costs almost nothing and gains stamina for each kill + axe bleeds if caster have it, but there is no heal/shield equivalent to that power level. Only maybe Lingering Ritual but it has 2 sec cast time.
I dont thing adding more powerful defensive options to game will make players "unkillable". No one was unkillable back then when there were no wrecking blows criting for 15k. Everyone was super tanky with shield stacks, perma blocking and impen, immovable spam and all those *** but we still were dying everyday hundreds of times. Even Sheliza the (so called) Unkillable was dying lol.
Think about that for a second, the way everyone kills Templars is by CCing them. If you gave them a MAGICKA immovable, you would not be able to kill them. Every class is powerful, but you need a way to kill them. that's the problem with Sorcs right now, and that would put Templars in the same problem.
1. NBs and sorcs are OP in compare with dks and templars, so does making dks and templars OP will equalize classes?(yes, i prefer to see dks and temps buffed instead of sorcs and nbs nerfed, like rest of forum ask)
2. When dks will be fixed [especially skills like DragonBlood], dks will be on top of food chain again coz people already changed their builds to increase their survivability. With such obvious sustain fixes and promised DD capability buffed, DKs magicka dks will run Cyro again. So templars,if they won't get noticeble defensive mechanics, will be on bottom of food chain again; but now without magicka dks buddies, i.e. same situation that happened after 1.5.
3. Even this suggestion about Eclipse won't make this skill better than Blinding Flashes, and BF were removed not coz it was OP in PvP, but because it was OP in PvE(LOL?). However i agree, ability in Dawn Wrath tree should have some damage output, not to be pure defense, even Searing Light morph of BL prevoiusly had 8m aoe damage in addition to granted defense.
4. Lets be honest, BoL is only thing that keeps templars alive in Cyro, templars invested all resources to buff healing output and forced to play healers in heavy armor. 1 skill for defense is perfect example how terrible current situation with class. I won't mind such things like LoS for BoL to prevent it from abusing but giving other defensive skills. DK' with fixed DragonBlood healing output equal to Templar with Honor the Dead, but unlike templar they have scales, aoe interrupts, aoe damage mitigations(like Choking Talons), so they require to invest much less resources in defense and thats allowing them to be stronger DD than templars. DK who will invest as much resources in defense as templar forced to, will be 5 times tougher than templar.
In the end, obviously ZOS already implemented their changes and our decisions won't make any difference till we try new skills on pts.
People keep saying dk's are more 'tanky' than other classes, im curious how so?
1. They have 2 passives to restore resources. i.e. 2 passives to restore stamina allowing to hold block much-much longer. Templar has only such weird thing like Repentance
2. They have magical wings of fairy dragon called Scales. Imagine that 4 Frags or 4 Lethal Arrows flying toward you and each will hit you for 8k=32k damage in total. And pressing 1magic button making you negate this 32k damage. Even BoL looks pale in compare to this
3. They have best defensive ultimates(Standart apply damage mitigation buff on you, unlike Nova that apply only damage debuff on enemy, zero enemies in Nova=zero effect. Leap grants solid damage shield in addition to high damage and solid CC, Armor making you literally god-mode for 9 sec). Btw i imagine insane damage magicka dks will deal if one morph of Leap will be changed to deal elemental/magical damage.
4. They have aoe root skill(Choking Talons) that doing literally what Empowering Sweep ult doing for templar.
5. They can blockcasting their skills, so they don't need to hold-off block to fight enemy. Unlike templar, who dd skills are mostly channeled.
6. They probably will have back fixed DragonBlood that equal to templar Honor the Dead, i.e. evey dk again will be as good at self-healing as templar.
^^^this is more than enough to be best tanks.
You are saying DKs are better tanks than templars. That does not make them "tanky."
As long as Cyrodiil heavily favors burst damage / maneuverability and Wrobel insists on keeping ultimate tied to a cooldown, magicka DKs will not rule Cyrodiil.
Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.0 -
Callidus_Est✭✭I want Templars to be powerful, but making them practically unkillable is not the way to do it. That will just create a bigger problem than we already have, that's not class balance.Salmion Loreius - V16 Templar Healer
Filramo Loreius - V16 Sorcerer Tank
Callidus Est - V16 Magicka Nightblade PvP
Callius Alfeon - V4 Stamina Templar0 -
Firerock2✭✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »
It much more tanky in compare with another "hold your ground" class - templar.leepalmer95 wrote: »
It is more "problematic":Callidus_Est wrote: »Callidus_Est wrote: »
Maybe because that's the purpose of the build? If people can literally kill under one sec, then tough heal/tank builds have right to exist at the same power level of those one shot builds.
As an another example, steel tornado hits around 6k up to 6 people in 10m radius, costs almost nothing and gains stamina for each kill + axe bleeds if caster have it, but there is no heal/shield equivalent to that power level. Only maybe Lingering Ritual but it has 2 sec cast time.
I dont thing adding more powerful defensive options to game will make players "unkillable". No one was unkillable back then when there were no wrecking blows criting for 15k. Everyone was super tanky with shield stacks, perma blocking and impen, immovable spam and all those *** but we still were dying everyday hundreds of times. Even Sheliza the (so called) Unkillable was dying lol.
Think about that for a second, the way everyone kills Templars is by CCing them. If you gave them a MAGICKA immovable, you would not be able to kill them. Every class is powerful, but you need a way to kill them. that's the problem with Sorcs right now, and that would put Templars in the same problem.
1. NBs and sorcs are OP in compare with dks and templars, so does making dks and templars OP will equalize classes?(yes, i prefer to see dks and temps buffed instead of sorcs and nbs nerfed, like rest of forum ask)
2. When dks will be fixed [especially skills like DragonBlood], dks will be on top of food chain again coz people already changed their builds to increase their survivability. With such obvious sustain fixes and promised DD capability buffed, DKs magicka dks will run Cyro again. So templars,if they won't get noticeble defensive mechanics, will be on bottom of food chain again; but now without magicka dks buddies, i.e. same situation that happened after 1.5.
3. Even this suggestion about Eclipse won't make this skill better than Blinding Flashes, and BF were removed not coz it was OP in PvP, but because it was OP in PvE(LOL?). However i agree, ability in Dawn Wrath tree should have some damage output, not to be pure defense, even Searing Light morph of BL prevoiusly had 8m aoe damage in addition to granted defense.
4. Lets be honest, BoL is only thing that keeps templars alive in Cyro, templars invested all resources to buff healing output and forced to play healers in heavy armor. 1 skill for defense is perfect example how terrible current situation with class. I won't mind such things like LoS for BoL to prevent it from abusing but giving other defensive skills. DK' with fixed DragonBlood healing output equal to Templar with Honor the Dead, but unlike templar they have scales, aoe interrupts, aoe damage mitigations(like Choking Talons), so they require to invest much less resources in defense and thats allowing them to be stronger DD than templars. DK who will invest as much resources in defense as templar forced to, will be 5 times tougher than templar.
In the end, obviously ZOS already implemented their changes and our decisions won't make any difference till we try new skills on pts.
People keep saying dk's are more 'tanky' than other classes, im curious how so?
1. They have 2 passives to restore resources. i.e. 2 passives to restore stamina allowing to hold block much-much longer. Templar has only such weird thing like Repentance
2. They have magical wings of fairy dragon called Scales. Imagine that 4 Frags or 4 Lethal Arrows flying toward you and each will hit you for 8k=32k damage in total. And pressing 1magic button making you negate this 32k damage. Even BoL looks pale in compare to this
3. They have best defensive ultimates(Standart apply damage mitigation buff on you, unlike Nova that apply only damage debuff on enemy, zero enemies in Nova=zero effect. Leap grants solid damage shield in addition to high damage and solid CC, Armor making you literally god-mode for 9 sec). Btw i imagine insane damage magicka dks will deal if one morph of Leap will be changed to deal elemental/magical damage.
4. They have aoe root skill(Choking Talons) that doing literally what Empowering Sweep ult doing for templar.
5. They can blockcasting their skills, so they don't need to hold-off block to fight enemy. Unlike templar, who dd skills are mostly channeled.
6. They probably will have back fixed DragonBlood that equal to templar Honor the Dead, i.e. evey dk again will be as good at self-healing as templar.
^^^this is more than enough to be best tanks.
You are saying DKs are better tanks than templars. That does not make them "tanky."
As long as Cyrodiil heavily favors burst damage / maneuverability and Wrobel insists on keeping ultimate tied to a cooldown, magicka DKs will not rule Cyrodiil.
Everything he listed does describe how DK's are tanky.
1. Passives help them block longer than other classes.
2. Scales reflects ranged attacks which means they don't have to break LoS or anything and can just stand there taking damage and dealing it right back. No other class has this.
3. You should check out magma armor, it caps incoming damage. No other class has this.
4. Rooting keeps enemies near them. Sorcs have this with encase.
6. Block casting keeps them alive longer. This works for any class with insta cast abilities but most of the DK's abilities are insta cast.
7. If Dragon Blood gets fixed then it will be comparable to BoL and it's cheaper which would mean they would be able to heal themselves competently without a pocket healer.
All this adds up to better tankiness. He compared much of the DK to Templars because this is a Templar thread and Templars are supposed to be somewhat tanky as well.Edited by Firerock2 on January 26, 2016 6:30PM3 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »
It much more tanky in compare with another "hold your ground" class - templar.leepalmer95 wrote: »
It is more "problematic":Callidus_Est wrote: »Callidus_Est wrote: »
Maybe because that's the purpose of the build? If people can literally kill under one sec, then tough heal/tank builds have right to exist at the same power level of those one shot builds.
As an another example, steel tornado hits around 6k up to 6 people in 10m radius, costs almost nothing and gains stamina for each kill + axe bleeds if caster have it, but there is no heal/shield equivalent to that power level. Only maybe Lingering Ritual but it has 2 sec cast time.
I dont thing adding more powerful defensive options to game will make players "unkillable". No one was unkillable back then when there were no wrecking blows criting for 15k. Everyone was super tanky with shield stacks, perma blocking and impen, immovable spam and all those *** but we still were dying everyday hundreds of times. Even Sheliza the (so called) Unkillable was dying lol.
Think about that for a second, the way everyone kills Templars is by CCing them. If you gave them a MAGICKA immovable, you would not be able to kill them. Every class is powerful, but you need a way to kill them. that's the problem with Sorcs right now, and that would put Templars in the same problem.
1. NBs and sorcs are OP in compare with dks and templars, so does making dks and templars OP will equalize classes?(yes, i prefer to see dks and temps buffed instead of sorcs and nbs nerfed, like rest of forum ask)
2. When dks will be fixed [especially skills like DragonBlood], dks will be on top of food chain again coz people already changed their builds to increase their survivability. With such obvious sustain fixes and promised DD capability buffed, DKs magicka dks will run Cyro again. So templars,if they won't get noticeble defensive mechanics, will be on bottom of food chain again; but now without magicka dks buddies, i.e. same situation that happened after 1.5.
3. Even this suggestion about Eclipse won't make this skill better than Blinding Flashes, and BF were removed not coz it was OP in PvP, but because it was OP in PvE(LOL?). However i agree, ability in Dawn Wrath tree should have some damage output, not to be pure defense, even Searing Light morph of BL prevoiusly had 8m aoe damage in addition to granted defense.
4. Lets be honest, BoL is only thing that keeps templars alive in Cyro, templars invested all resources to buff healing output and forced to play healers in heavy armor. 1 skill for defense is perfect example how terrible current situation with class. I won't mind such things like LoS for BoL to prevent it from abusing but giving other defensive skills. DK' with fixed DragonBlood healing output equal to Templar with Honor the Dead, but unlike templar they have scales, aoe interrupts, aoe damage mitigations(like Choking Talons), so they require to invest much less resources in defense and thats allowing them to be stronger DD than templars. DK who will invest as much resources in defense as templar forced to, will be 5 times tougher than templar.
In the end, obviously ZOS already implemented their changes and our decisions won't make any difference till we try new skills on pts.
People keep saying dk's are more 'tanky' than other classes, im curious how so?
1. They have 2 passives to restore resources. i.e. 2 passives to restore stamina allowing to hold block much-much longer. Templar has only such weird thing like Repentance
2. They have magical wings of fairy dragon called Scales. Imagine that 4 Frags or 4 Lethal Arrows flying toward you and each will hit you for 8k=32k damage in total. And pressing 1magic button making you negate this 32k damage. Even BoL looks pale in compare to this
3. They have best defensive ultimates(Standart apply damage mitigation buff on you, unlike Nova that apply only damage debuff on enemy, zero enemies in Nova=zero effect. Leap grants solid damage shield in addition to high damage and solid CC, Armor making you literally god-mode for 9 sec). Btw i imagine insane damage magicka dks will deal if one morph of Leap will be changed to deal elemental/magical damage.
4. They have aoe root skill(Choking Talons) that doing literally what Empowering Sweep ult doing for templar.
5. They can blockcasting their skills, so they don't need to hold-off block to fight enemy. Unlike templar, who dd skills are mostly channeled.
6. They probably will have back fixed DragonBlood that equal to templar Honor the Dead, i.e. evey dk again will be as good at self-healing as templar.
^^^this is more than enough to be best tanks.
You are saying DKs are better tanks than templars. That does not make them "tanky."
As long as Cyrodiil heavily favors burst damage / maneuverability and Wrobel insists on keeping ultimate tied to a cooldown, magicka DKs will not rule Cyrodiil.
Everything he listed does describe how DK's are tanky.
1. Passives help them block longer than other classes.
2. Scales reflects ranged attacks which means they don't have to break LoS or anything and can just stand there taking damage and dealing it right back. No other class has this.
3. You should check out magma armor, it caps incoming damage. No other class has this.
4. Rooting keeps enemies near them. Sorcs have this with encase.
6. Block casting keeps them alive longer. This works for any class with insta cast abilities but most of the DK's abilities are insta cast.
7. If Dragon Blood gets fixed then it will be comparable to BoL and it's cheaper which would mean they would be able to heal themselves competently without a pocket healer.
All this adds up to better tankiness. He compared much of the DK to Templars because this is a Templar thread and Templars are supposed to be somewhat tanky as well.
1. The very slight block passive doesn't suddenly make a class a tank. Just like a crit dmg passive doesn't make a build a super high dps.
2. Scales are bugged, they aren't cheap either.
3. In a game where pvp is decided by burst dmg, becoming tanky for 9s is not bad, but you still won't kill anyone.
4. Roots are quite good, still doesn't do dmg or anything and can be purged. I swear half the time it doesn't work either.
5. Anyone can block cast, not that block casting is actually good anymore with the 0 regen nerf.
6. Maybe but gbd is a % based heal so it's more risky that flat out healing for 7k + a go.
Btw you missed out 5. I'm not sure why.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
SneaK✭✭✭✭✭Callidus_Est wrote: »Callidus_Est wrote: »
Maybe because that's the purpose of the build? If people can literally kill under one sec, then tough heal/tank builds have right to exist at the same power level of those one shot builds.
As an another example, steel tornado hits around 6k up to 6 people in 10m radius, costs almost nothing and gains stamina for each kill + axe bleeds if caster have it, but there is no heal/shield equivalent to that power level. Only maybe Lingering Ritual but it has 2 sec cast time.
I dont thing adding more powerful defensive options to game will make players "unkillable". No one was unkillable back then when there were no wrecking blows criting for 15k. Everyone was super tanky with shield stacks, perma blocking and impen, immovable spam and all those *** but we still were dying everyday hundreds of times. Even Sheliza the (so called) Unkillable was dying lol.
Think about that for a second, the way everyone kills Templars is by CCing them. If you gave them a MAGICKA immovable, you would not be able to kill them. Every class is powerful, but you need a way to kill them. that's the problem with Sorcs right now, and that would put Templars in the same problem.
Hmmm, so stam classes that can use Immovable are "unkillable" and that's okay? But a Magicka skill that grants the same immunity to immobilizes is not okay?"IMO"Aldmeri DominionBosmer Nightblade AR 32 - Altmer Templar AR 26 - Dunmer Dragonknight AR 18 - Altmer Sorcerer AR 20 - Khajiit Dragonknight AR 18(+3 not worth mentioning, yet)0 -
Firerock2✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »
It much more tanky in compare with another "hold your ground" class - templar.leepalmer95 wrote: »
It is more "problematic":Callidus_Est wrote: »Callidus_Est wrote: »
Maybe because that's the purpose of the build? If people can literally kill under one sec, then tough heal/tank builds have right to exist at the same power level of those one shot builds.
As an another example, steel tornado hits around 6k up to 6 people in 10m radius, costs almost nothing and gains stamina for each kill + axe bleeds if caster have it, but there is no heal/shield equivalent to that power level. Only maybe Lingering Ritual but it has 2 sec cast time.
I dont thing adding more powerful defensive options to game will make players "unkillable". No one was unkillable back then when there were no wrecking blows criting for 15k. Everyone was super tanky with shield stacks, perma blocking and impen, immovable spam and all those *** but we still were dying everyday hundreds of times. Even Sheliza the (so called) Unkillable was dying lol.
Think about that for a second, the way everyone kills Templars is by CCing them. If you gave them a MAGICKA immovable, you would not be able to kill them. Every class is powerful, but you need a way to kill them. that's the problem with Sorcs right now, and that would put Templars in the same problem.
1. NBs and sorcs are OP in compare with dks and templars, so does making dks and templars OP will equalize classes?(yes, i prefer to see dks and temps buffed instead of sorcs and nbs nerfed, like rest of forum ask)
2. When dks will be fixed [especially skills like DragonBlood], dks will be on top of food chain again coz people already changed their builds to increase their survivability. With such obvious sustain fixes and promised DD capability buffed, DKs magicka dks will run Cyro again. So templars,if they won't get noticeble defensive mechanics, will be on bottom of food chain again; but now without magicka dks buddies, i.e. same situation that happened after 1.5.
3. Even this suggestion about Eclipse won't make this skill better than Blinding Flashes, and BF were removed not coz it was OP in PvP, but because it was OP in PvE(LOL?). However i agree, ability in Dawn Wrath tree should have some damage output, not to be pure defense, even Searing Light morph of BL prevoiusly had 8m aoe damage in addition to granted defense.
4. Lets be honest, BoL is only thing that keeps templars alive in Cyro, templars invested all resources to buff healing output and forced to play healers in heavy armor. 1 skill for defense is perfect example how terrible current situation with class. I won't mind such things like LoS for BoL to prevent it from abusing but giving other defensive skills. DK' with fixed DragonBlood healing output equal to Templar with Honor the Dead, but unlike templar they have scales, aoe interrupts, aoe damage mitigations(like Choking Talons), so they require to invest much less resources in defense and thats allowing them to be stronger DD than templars. DK who will invest as much resources in defense as templar forced to, will be 5 times tougher than templar.
In the end, obviously ZOS already implemented their changes and our decisions won't make any difference till we try new skills on pts.
People keep saying dk's are more 'tanky' than other classes, im curious how so?
1. They have 2 passives to restore resources. i.e. 2 passives to restore stamina allowing to hold block much-much longer. Templar has only such weird thing like Repentance
2. They have magical wings of fairy dragon called Scales. Imagine that 4 Frags or 4 Lethal Arrows flying toward you and each will hit you for 8k=32k damage in total. And pressing 1magic button making you negate this 32k damage. Even BoL looks pale in compare to this
3. They have best defensive ultimates(Standart apply damage mitigation buff on you, unlike Nova that apply only damage debuff on enemy, zero enemies in Nova=zero effect. Leap grants solid damage shield in addition to high damage and solid CC, Armor making you literally god-mode for 9 sec). Btw i imagine insane damage magicka dks will deal if one morph of Leap will be changed to deal elemental/magical damage.
4. They have aoe root skill(Choking Talons) that doing literally what Empowering Sweep ult doing for templar.
5. They can blockcasting their skills, so they don't need to hold-off block to fight enemy. Unlike templar, who dd skills are mostly channeled.
6. They probably will have back fixed DragonBlood that equal to templar Honor the Dead, i.e. evey dk again will be as good at self-healing as templar.
^^^this is more than enough to be best tanks.
You are saying DKs are better tanks than templars. That does not make them "tanky."
As long as Cyrodiil heavily favors burst damage / maneuverability and Wrobel insists on keeping ultimate tied to a cooldown, magicka DKs will not rule Cyrodiil.
Everything he listed does describe how DK's are tanky.
1. Passives help them block longer than other classes.
2. Scales reflects ranged attacks which means they don't have to break LoS or anything and can just stand there taking damage and dealing it right back. No other class has this.
3. You should check out magma armor, it caps incoming damage. No other class has this.
4. Rooting keeps enemies near them. Sorcs have this with encase.
6. Block casting keeps them alive longer. This works for any class with insta cast abilities but most of the DK's abilities are insta cast.
7. If Dragon Blood gets fixed then it will be comparable to BoL and it's cheaper which would mean they would be able to heal themselves competently without a pocket healer.
All this adds up to better tankiness. He compared much of the DK to Templars because this is a Templar thread and Templars are supposed to be somewhat tanky as well.
1. The very slight block passive doesn't suddenly make a class a tank. Just like a crit dmg passive doesn't make a build a super high dps.
2. Scales are bugged, they aren't cheap either.
3. In a game where pvp is decided by burst dmg, becoming tanky for 9s is not bad, but you still won't kill anyone.
4. Roots are quite good, still doesn't do dmg or anything and can be purged. I swear half the time it doesn't work either.
5. Anyone can block cast, not that block casting is actually good anymore with the 0 regen nerf.
6. Maybe but gbd is a % based heal so it's more risky that flat out healing for 7k + a go.
Btw you missed out 5. I'm not sure why.
1. No it doesn't suddenly make them a tank but it means they will be able to tank better than any other class.
2. There are a lot of skills that are bugged atm, I'm discussing the design. Plus they still work more than half the time. Scales aren't meant to be spammed, and you can completely turn a fight by reflecting a meteor and crystal shard combo from a sorc. Negating 100% of the damage while dealing an increased amount of damage from the initial combo.
3. If you can't kill anyone that's not the skills problem and DPSing isn't the role of a tank.
4. Still they are a tool that only 1 other class has and the DK's even have a morph that reduces damage from the enemy.
5. Block casting is still important with some builds and the DK is the best at it.
6.It's not that risky if you are block casting and it's less expensive.
I skipped 5 because the auto list bugged out, I'm not sure why that concerns you.
I'm not trying to say that you aren't right about Cyrodiil favoring burst DPS but I just wanted to point out that you were wrong in claiming that Cinbri didn't actually list things about the tankyness of DK's.
You can PM me if you want to continue this further because it seems to be getting off topic.Edited by Firerock2 on January 26, 2016 6:56PM0 -
tplink3r1✭✭✭✭✭
✭
"1. No it doesn't suddenly make them a tank but it means they will be able to tank better than any other class." Not really, unless he finds a way to use hardened ward on a DK.leepalmer95 wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »
It much more tanky in compare with another "hold your ground" class - templar.leepalmer95 wrote: »
It is more "problematic":Callidus_Est wrote: »Callidus_Est wrote: »
Maybe because that's the purpose of the build? If people can literally kill under one sec, then tough heal/tank builds have right to exist at the same power level of those one shot builds.
As an another example, steel tornado hits around 6k up to 6 people in 10m radius, costs almost nothing and gains stamina for each kill + axe bleeds if caster have it, but there is no heal/shield equivalent to that power level. Only maybe Lingering Ritual but it has 2 sec cast time.
I dont thing adding more powerful defensive options to game will make players "unkillable". No one was unkillable back then when there were no wrecking blows criting for 15k. Everyone was super tanky with shield stacks, perma blocking and impen, immovable spam and all those *** but we still were dying everyday hundreds of times. Even Sheliza the (so called) Unkillable was dying lol.
Think about that for a second, the way everyone kills Templars is by CCing them. If you gave them a MAGICKA immovable, you would not be able to kill them. Every class is powerful, but you need a way to kill them. that's the problem with Sorcs right now, and that would put Templars in the same problem.
1. NBs and sorcs are OP in compare with dks and templars, so does making dks and templars OP will equalize classes?(yes, i prefer to see dks and temps buffed instead of sorcs and nbs nerfed, like rest of forum ask)
2. When dks will be fixed [especially skills like DragonBlood], dks will be on top of food chain again coz people already changed their builds to increase their survivability. With such obvious sustain fixes and promised DD capability buffed, DKs magicka dks will run Cyro again. So templars,if they won't get noticeble defensive mechanics, will be on bottom of food chain again; but now without magicka dks buddies, i.e. same situation that happened after 1.5.
3. Even this suggestion about Eclipse won't make this skill better than Blinding Flashes, and BF were removed not coz it was OP in PvP, but because it was OP in PvE(LOL?). However i agree, ability in Dawn Wrath tree should have some damage output, not to be pure defense, even Searing Light morph of BL prevoiusly had 8m aoe damage in addition to granted defense.
4. Lets be honest, BoL is only thing that keeps templars alive in Cyro, templars invested all resources to buff healing output and forced to play healers in heavy armor. 1 skill for defense is perfect example how terrible current situation with class. I won't mind such things like LoS for BoL to prevent it from abusing but giving other defensive skills. DK' with fixed DragonBlood healing output equal to Templar with Honor the Dead, but unlike templar they have scales, aoe interrupts, aoe damage mitigations(like Choking Talons), so they require to invest much less resources in defense and thats allowing them to be stronger DD than templars. DK who will invest as much resources in defense as templar forced to, will be 5 times tougher than templar.
In the end, obviously ZOS already implemented their changes and our decisions won't make any difference till we try new skills on pts.
People keep saying dk's are more 'tanky' than other classes, im curious how so?
1. They have 2 passives to restore resources. i.e. 2 passives to restore stamina allowing to hold block much-much longer. Templar has only such weird thing like Repentance
2. They have magical wings of fairy dragon called Scales. Imagine that 4 Frags or 4 Lethal Arrows flying toward you and each will hit you for 8k=32k damage in total. And pressing 1magic button making you negate this 32k damage. Even BoL looks pale in compare to this
3. They have best defensive ultimates(Standart apply damage mitigation buff on you, unlike Nova that apply only damage debuff on enemy, zero enemies in Nova=zero effect. Leap grants solid damage shield in addition to high damage and solid CC, Armor making you literally god-mode for 9 sec). Btw i imagine insane damage magicka dks will deal if one morph of Leap will be changed to deal elemental/magical damage.
4. They have aoe root skill(Choking Talons) that doing literally what Empowering Sweep ult doing for templar.
5. They can blockcasting their skills, so they don't need to hold-off block to fight enemy. Unlike templar, who dd skills are mostly channeled.
6. They probably will have back fixed DragonBlood that equal to templar Honor the Dead, i.e. evey dk again will be as good at self-healing as templar.
^^^this is more than enough to be best tanks.
You are saying DKs are better tanks than templars. That does not make them "tanky."
As long as Cyrodiil heavily favors burst damage / maneuverability and Wrobel insists on keeping ultimate tied to a cooldown, magicka DKs will not rule Cyrodiil.
Everything he listed does describe how DK's are tanky.
1. Passives help them block longer than other classes.
2. Scales reflects ranged attacks which means they don't have to break LoS or anything and can just stand there taking damage and dealing it right back. No other class has this.
3. You should check out magma armor, it caps incoming damage. No other class has this.
4. Rooting keeps enemies near them. Sorcs have this with encase.
6. Block casting keeps them alive longer. This works for any class with insta cast abilities but most of the DK's abilities are insta cast.
7. If Dragon Blood gets fixed then it will be comparable to BoL and it's cheaper which would mean they would be able to heal themselves competently without a pocket healer.
All this adds up to better tankiness. He compared much of the DK to Templars because this is a Templar thread and Templars are supposed to be somewhat tanky as well.
1. The very slight block passive doesn't suddenly make a class a tank. Just like a crit dmg passive doesn't make a build a super high dps.
2. Scales are bugged, they aren't cheap either.
3. In a game where pvp is decided by burst dmg, becoming tanky for 9s is not bad, but you still won't kill anyone.
4. Roots are quite good, still doesn't do dmg or anything and can be purged. I swear half the time it doesn't work either.
5. Anyone can block cast, not that block casting is actually good anymore with the 0 regen nerf.
6. Maybe but gbd is a % based heal so it's more risky that flat out healing for 7k + a go.
Btw you missed out 5. I'm not sure why.
1. No it doesn't suddenly make them a tank but it means they will be able to tank better than any other class.
2. There are a lot of skills that are bugged atm, I'm discussing the design. Plus they still work more than half the time. Scales aren't meant to be spammed, and you can completely turn a fight by reflecting a meteor and crystal shard combo from a sorc. Negating 100% of the damage while dealing an increased amount of damage from the initial combo.
3. If you can't kill anyone that's not the skills problem and DPSing isn't the role of a tank.
4. Still they are a tool that only 1 other class has and the DK's even have a morph that reduces damage from the enemy.
5. Block casting is still important with some builds and the DK is the best at it.
6.It's not that risky if you are block casting and it's less expensive.
I skipped 5 because the auto list bugged out, I'm not sure why that concerns you.
I'm not trying to say that you aren't right about Cyrodiil favoring burst DPS but I just wanted to point out that you were wrong in claiming that Cinbri didn't actually list things about the tankyness of DK's.
You can PM me if you want to continue this further because it seems to be getting off topic.VR16 Templar
VR3 Sorcerer0 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »
It much more tanky in compare with another "hold your ground" class - templar.leepalmer95 wrote: »
It is more "problematic":Callidus_Est wrote: »Callidus_Est wrote: »
Maybe because that's the purpose of the build? If people can literally kill under one sec, then tough heal/tank builds have right to exist at the same power level of those one shot builds.
As an another example, steel tornado hits around 6k up to 6 people in 10m radius, costs almost nothing and gains stamina for each kill + axe bleeds if caster have it, but there is no heal/shield equivalent to that power level. Only maybe Lingering Ritual but it has 2 sec cast time.
I dont thing adding more powerful defensive options to game will make players "unkillable". No one was unkillable back then when there were no wrecking blows criting for 15k. Everyone was super tanky with shield stacks, perma blocking and impen, immovable spam and all those *** but we still were dying everyday hundreds of times. Even Sheliza the (so called) Unkillable was dying lol.
Think about that for a second, the way everyone kills Templars is by CCing them. If you gave them a MAGICKA immovable, you would not be able to kill them. Every class is powerful, but you need a way to kill them. that's the problem with Sorcs right now, and that would put Templars in the same problem.
1. NBs and sorcs are OP in compare with dks and templars, so does making dks and templars OP will equalize classes?(yes, i prefer to see dks and temps buffed instead of sorcs and nbs nerfed, like rest of forum ask)
2. When dks will be fixed [especially skills like DragonBlood], dks will be on top of food chain again coz people already changed their builds to increase their survivability. With such obvious sustain fixes and promised DD capability buffed, DKs magicka dks will run Cyro again. So templars,if they won't get noticeble defensive mechanics, will be on bottom of food chain again; but now without magicka dks buddies, i.e. same situation that happened after 1.5.
3. Even this suggestion about Eclipse won't make this skill better than Blinding Flashes, and BF were removed not coz it was OP in PvP, but because it was OP in PvE(LOL?). However i agree, ability in Dawn Wrath tree should have some damage output, not to be pure defense, even Searing Light morph of BL prevoiusly had 8m aoe damage in addition to granted defense.
4. Lets be honest, BoL is only thing that keeps templars alive in Cyro, templars invested all resources to buff healing output and forced to play healers in heavy armor. 1 skill for defense is perfect example how terrible current situation with class. I won't mind such things like LoS for BoL to prevent it from abusing but giving other defensive skills. DK' with fixed DragonBlood healing output equal to Templar with Honor the Dead, but unlike templar they have scales, aoe interrupts, aoe damage mitigations(like Choking Talons), so they require to invest much less resources in defense and thats allowing them to be stronger DD than templars. DK who will invest as much resources in defense as templar forced to, will be 5 times tougher than templar.
In the end, obviously ZOS already implemented their changes and our decisions won't make any difference till we try new skills on pts.
People keep saying dk's are more 'tanky' than other classes, im curious how so?
1. They have 2 passives to restore resources. i.e. 2 passives to restore stamina allowing to hold block much-much longer. Templar has only such weird thing like Repentance
2. They have magical wings of fairy dragon called Scales. Imagine that 4 Frags or 4 Lethal Arrows flying toward you and each will hit you for 8k=32k damage in total. And pressing 1magic button making you negate this 32k damage. Even BoL looks pale in compare to this
3. They have best defensive ultimates(Standart apply damage mitigation buff on you, unlike Nova that apply only damage debuff on enemy, zero enemies in Nova=zero effect. Leap grants solid damage shield in addition to high damage and solid CC, Armor making you literally god-mode for 9 sec). Btw i imagine insane damage magicka dks will deal if one morph of Leap will be changed to deal elemental/magical damage.
4. They have aoe root skill(Choking Talons) that doing literally what Empowering Sweep ult doing for templar.
5. They can blockcasting their skills, so they don't need to hold-off block to fight enemy. Unlike templar, who dd skills are mostly channeled.
6. They probably will have back fixed DragonBlood that equal to templar Honor the Dead, i.e. evey dk again will be as good at self-healing as templar.
^^^this is more than enough to be best tanks.
You are saying DKs are better tanks than templars. That does not make them "tanky."
As long as Cyrodiil heavily favors burst damage / maneuverability and Wrobel insists on keeping ultimate tied to a cooldown, magicka DKs will not rule Cyrodiil.
Everything he listed does describe how DK's are tanky.
1. Passives help them block longer than other classes.
2. Scales reflects ranged attacks which means they don't have to break LoS or anything and can just stand there taking damage and dealing it right back. No other class has this.
3. You should check out magma armor, it caps incoming damage. No other class has this.
4. Rooting keeps enemies near them. Sorcs have this with encase.
6. Block casting keeps them alive longer. This works for any class with insta cast abilities but most of the DK's abilities are insta cast.
7. If Dragon Blood gets fixed then it will be comparable to BoL and it's cheaper which would mean they would be able to heal themselves competently without a pocket healer.
All this adds up to better tankiness. He compared much of the DK to Templars because this is a Templar thread and Templars are supposed to be somewhat tanky as well.
Blockcasting? What is this, 1.5? Here's #8 for you: a (magicka) DK actually has to theorycraft and have a specific build to attain the same sustainability any magicka templar can get from spamming puncturing sweeps. None of this makes a DK "tanky." I know DKs and templars are supposed to be "tanky" - which is a stupid ambiguous term by the way - but a sorcerer and a nightblade are better equipped to survive, let alone overcome, the various dangers this game presents as challenges.
I play a templar and have specifically told ZoS what was wrong with the class so I am in no way exagerrating their effectiveness. But the whole anarchonistic reputation that magicka DKs are just "tanky" is outdated nonsense that does nothing to clarify the state of class balance in this game.
If templars are striving to be just as "tanky" as a base DK, that is without tools such as vigor, rally, etc., then templars standards are very low and are in for a rude awakening if ZoS ever accedes to such a request.Edited by Joy_Division on January 26, 2016 7:29PMMake Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.1 -
Firerock2✭✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »
It much more tanky in compare with another "hold your ground" class - templar.leepalmer95 wrote: »
It is more "problematic":Callidus_Est wrote: »Callidus_Est wrote: »
Maybe because that's the purpose of the build? If people can literally kill under one sec, then tough heal/tank builds have right to exist at the same power level of those one shot builds.
As an another example, steel tornado hits around 6k up to 6 people in 10m radius, costs almost nothing and gains stamina for each kill + axe bleeds if caster have it, but there is no heal/shield equivalent to that power level. Only maybe Lingering Ritual but it has 2 sec cast time.
I dont thing adding more powerful defensive options to game will make players "unkillable". No one was unkillable back then when there were no wrecking blows criting for 15k. Everyone was super tanky with shield stacks, perma blocking and impen, immovable spam and all those *** but we still were dying everyday hundreds of times. Even Sheliza the (so called) Unkillable was dying lol.
Think about that for a second, the way everyone kills Templars is by CCing them. If you gave them a MAGICKA immovable, you would not be able to kill them. Every class is powerful, but you need a way to kill them. that's the problem with Sorcs right now, and that would put Templars in the same problem.
1. NBs and sorcs are OP in compare with dks and templars, so does making dks and templars OP will equalize classes?(yes, i prefer to see dks and temps buffed instead of sorcs and nbs nerfed, like rest of forum ask)
2. When dks will be fixed [especially skills like DragonBlood], dks will be on top of food chain again coz people already changed their builds to increase their survivability. With such obvious sustain fixes and promised DD capability buffed, DKs magicka dks will run Cyro again. So templars,if they won't get noticeble defensive mechanics, will be on bottom of food chain again; but now without magicka dks buddies, i.e. same situation that happened after 1.5.
3. Even this suggestion about Eclipse won't make this skill better than Blinding Flashes, and BF were removed not coz it was OP in PvP, but because it was OP in PvE(LOL?). However i agree, ability in Dawn Wrath tree should have some damage output, not to be pure defense, even Searing Light morph of BL prevoiusly had 8m aoe damage in addition to granted defense.
4. Lets be honest, BoL is only thing that keeps templars alive in Cyro, templars invested all resources to buff healing output and forced to play healers in heavy armor. 1 skill for defense is perfect example how terrible current situation with class. I won't mind such things like LoS for BoL to prevent it from abusing but giving other defensive skills. DK' with fixed DragonBlood healing output equal to Templar with Honor the Dead, but unlike templar they have scales, aoe interrupts, aoe damage mitigations(like Choking Talons), so they require to invest much less resources in defense and thats allowing them to be stronger DD than templars. DK who will invest as much resources in defense as templar forced to, will be 5 times tougher than templar.
In the end, obviously ZOS already implemented their changes and our decisions won't make any difference till we try new skills on pts.
People keep saying dk's are more 'tanky' than other classes, im curious how so?
1. They have 2 passives to restore resources. i.e. 2 passives to restore stamina allowing to hold block much-much longer. Templar has only such weird thing like Repentance
2. They have magical wings of fairy dragon called Scales. Imagine that 4 Frags or 4 Lethal Arrows flying toward you and each will hit you for 8k=32k damage in total. And pressing 1magic button making you negate this 32k damage. Even BoL looks pale in compare to this
3. They have best defensive ultimates(Standart apply damage mitigation buff on you, unlike Nova that apply only damage debuff on enemy, zero enemies in Nova=zero effect. Leap grants solid damage shield in addition to high damage and solid CC, Armor making you literally god-mode for 9 sec). Btw i imagine insane damage magicka dks will deal if one morph of Leap will be changed to deal elemental/magical damage.
4. They have aoe root skill(Choking Talons) that doing literally what Empowering Sweep ult doing for templar.
5. They can blockcasting their skills, so they don't need to hold-off block to fight enemy. Unlike templar, who dd skills are mostly channeled.
6. They probably will have back fixed DragonBlood that equal to templar Honor the Dead, i.e. evey dk again will be as good at self-healing as templar.
^^^this is more than enough to be best tanks.
You are saying DKs are better tanks than templars. That does not make them "tanky."
As long as Cyrodiil heavily favors burst damage / maneuverability and Wrobel insists on keeping ultimate tied to a cooldown, magicka DKs will not rule Cyrodiil.
Everything he listed does describe how DK's are tanky.
1. Passives help them block longer than other classes.
2. Scales reflects ranged attacks which means they don't have to break LoS or anything and can just stand there taking damage and dealing it right back. No other class has this.
3. You should check out magma armor, it caps incoming damage. No other class has this.
4. Rooting keeps enemies near them. Sorcs have this with encase.
6. Block casting keeps them alive longer. This works for any class with insta cast abilities but most of the DK's abilities are insta cast.
7. If Dragon Blood gets fixed then it will be comparable to BoL and it's cheaper which would mean they would be able to heal themselves competently without a pocket healer.
All this adds up to better tankiness. He compared much of the DK to Templars because this is a Templar thread and Templars are supposed to be somewhat tanky as well.
Blockcasting? What is this, 1.5? Here's #8 for you: a (magicka) DK actually has to theorycraft and have a specific build to attain the same sustainability any magicka templar can get from spamming puncturing sweeps. None of this makes a DK "tanky." I know DKs and templars are supposed to be "tanky" - which is a stupid ambiguous term by the way - but a sorcerer and a nightblade are better equipped to survive, let alone overcome, the various dangers this game presents as challenges.
I play a templar and have specifically told ZoS what was wrong with the class so I am in no way exagerrating their effectiveness. But the whole anarchonistic reputation that magicka DKs are just "tanky" is outdated nonsense that does nothing to clarify the state of class balance in this game.
If templars are striving to be just as "tanky" as a magicka DK, then templars standards are very low and are in for a rude awakening if ZoS ever accedes to such a request.
I'm not trying to argue that DK's are not in a bad spot. They do make good tanks though, I'm sorry if you can't see this. My entire point was that Gindri's list did point out how DK's can be tanky. I think we all want DK's and Templars to be on par with Sorcs and Nightblades but I'm not sure how arguing over this point further will help this thread out.2 -
AfkNinja✭✭✭✭✭
✭bikerangelo wrote: »Really all we can do is bicker until PTS.
We've been throwing facts at them for how long? LOL
Incoming changes:
Zos nerfs Purify. GFDI1 -
bikerangelo✭✭✭✭✭
✭
We've been throwing facts at them for how long? LOL
Incoming changes:
Zos nerfs Purify. GFDI
When ZOS hears templars are still viable in pvp...
Edited by bikerangelo on January 26, 2016 8:08PM2 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »
It much more tanky in compare with another "hold your ground" class - templar.leepalmer95 wrote: »
It is more "problematic":Callidus_Est wrote: »Callidus_Est wrote: »
Maybe because that's the purpose of the build? If people can literally kill under one sec, then tough heal/tank builds have right to exist at the same power level of those one shot builds.
As an another example, steel tornado hits around 6k up to 6 people in 10m radius, costs almost nothing and gains stamina for each kill + axe bleeds if caster have it, but there is no heal/shield equivalent to that power level. Only maybe Lingering Ritual but it has 2 sec cast time.
I dont thing adding more powerful defensive options to game will make players "unkillable". No one was unkillable back then when there were no wrecking blows criting for 15k. Everyone was super tanky with shield stacks, perma blocking and impen, immovable spam and all those *** but we still were dying everyday hundreds of times. Even Sheliza the (so called) Unkillable was dying lol.
Think about that for a second, the way everyone kills Templars is by CCing them. If you gave them a MAGICKA immovable, you would not be able to kill them. Every class is powerful, but you need a way to kill them. that's the problem with Sorcs right now, and that would put Templars in the same problem.
1. NBs and sorcs are OP in compare with dks and templars, so does making dks and templars OP will equalize classes?(yes, i prefer to see dks and temps buffed instead of sorcs and nbs nerfed, like rest of forum ask)
2. When dks will be fixed [especially skills like DragonBlood], dks will be on top of food chain again coz people already changed their builds to increase their survivability. With such obvious sustain fixes and promised DD capability buffed, DKs magicka dks will run Cyro again. So templars,if they won't get noticeble defensive mechanics, will be on bottom of food chain again; but now without magicka dks buddies, i.e. same situation that happened after 1.5.
3. Even this suggestion about Eclipse won't make this skill better than Blinding Flashes, and BF were removed not coz it was OP in PvP, but because it was OP in PvE(LOL?). However i agree, ability in Dawn Wrath tree should have some damage output, not to be pure defense, even Searing Light morph of BL prevoiusly had 8m aoe damage in addition to granted defense.
4. Lets be honest, BoL is only thing that keeps templars alive in Cyro, templars invested all resources to buff healing output and forced to play healers in heavy armor. 1 skill for defense is perfect example how terrible current situation with class. I won't mind such things like LoS for BoL to prevent it from abusing but giving other defensive skills. DK' with fixed DragonBlood healing output equal to Templar with Honor the Dead, but unlike templar they have scales, aoe interrupts, aoe damage mitigations(like Choking Talons), so they require to invest much less resources in defense and thats allowing them to be stronger DD than templars. DK who will invest as much resources in defense as templar forced to, will be 5 times tougher than templar.
In the end, obviously ZOS already implemented their changes and our decisions won't make any difference till we try new skills on pts.
People keep saying dk's are more 'tanky' than other classes, im curious how so?
1. They have 2 passives to restore resources. i.e. 2 passives to restore stamina allowing to hold block much-much longer. Templar has only such weird thing like Repentance
2. They have magical wings of fairy dragon called Scales. Imagine that 4 Frags or 4 Lethal Arrows flying toward you and each will hit you for 8k=32k damage in total. And pressing 1magic button making you negate this 32k damage. Even BoL looks pale in compare to this
3. They have best defensive ultimates(Standart apply damage mitigation buff on you, unlike Nova that apply only damage debuff on enemy, zero enemies in Nova=zero effect. Leap grants solid damage shield in addition to high damage and solid CC, Armor making you literally god-mode for 9 sec). Btw i imagine insane damage magicka dks will deal if one morph of Leap will be changed to deal elemental/magical damage.
4. They have aoe root skill(Choking Talons) that doing literally what Empowering Sweep ult doing for templar.
5. They can blockcasting their skills, so they don't need to hold-off block to fight enemy. Unlike templar, who dd skills are mostly channeled.
6. They probably will have back fixed DragonBlood that equal to templar Honor the Dead, i.e. evey dk again will be as good at self-healing as templar.
^^^this is more than enough to be best tanks.
You are saying DKs are better tanks than templars. That does not make them "tanky."
As long as Cyrodiil heavily favors burst damage / maneuverability and Wrobel insists on keeping ultimate tied to a cooldown, magicka DKs will not rule Cyrodiil.
Everything he listed does describe how DK's are tanky.
1. Passives help them block longer than other classes.
2. Scales reflects ranged attacks which means they don't have to break LoS or anything and can just stand there taking damage and dealing it right back. No other class has this.
3. You should check out magma armor, it caps incoming damage. No other class has this.
4. Rooting keeps enemies near them. Sorcs have this with encase.
6. Block casting keeps them alive longer. This works for any class with insta cast abilities but most of the DK's abilities are insta cast.
7. If Dragon Blood gets fixed then it will be comparable to BoL and it's cheaper which would mean they would be able to heal themselves competently without a pocket healer.
All this adds up to better tankiness. He compared much of the DK to Templars because this is a Templar thread and Templars are supposed to be somewhat tanky as well.
Blockcasting? What is this, 1.5? Here's #8 for you: a (magicka) DK actually has to theorycraft and have a specific build to attain the same sustainability any magicka templar can get from spamming puncturing sweeps. None of this makes a DK "tanky." I know DKs and templars are supposed to be "tanky" - which is a stupid ambiguous term by the way - but a sorcerer and a nightblade are better equipped to survive, let alone overcome, the various dangers this game presents as challenges.
I play a templar and have specifically told ZoS what was wrong with the class so I am in no way exagerrating their effectiveness. But the whole anarchonistic reputation that magicka DKs are just "tanky" is outdated nonsense that does nothing to clarify the state of class balance in this game.
If templars are striving to be just as "tanky" as a magicka DK, then templars standards are very low and are in for a rude awakening if ZoS ever accedes to such a request.
I'm not trying to argue that DK's are not in a bad spot. They do make good tanks though, I'm sorry if you can't see this. My entire point was that Gindri's list did point out how DK's can be tanky. I think we all want DK's and Templars to be on par with Sorcs and Nightblades but I'm not sure how arguing over this point further will help this thread out.
It's quite simple. Every time you or someone else on this forum insists that DKs are "tanky," then ZoS has one more reason to pat themselves on the back for 1.6 and maintain this stupid status quo that heavily favors burst damage and mobility which will leave DKs and Templars out in the cold again.
But, by all means, keep telling ZoS that DKs are "tanky" and that Templars should strive to such heights. Maybe they will inspired to modify Breath of Life the way they did Dragon's BloodMake Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.1 -
Firerock2✭✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »
It much more tanky in compare with another "hold your ground" class - templar.leepalmer95 wrote: »
It is more "problematic":Callidus_Est wrote: »Callidus_Est wrote: »
Maybe because that's the purpose of the build? If people can literally kill under one sec, then tough heal/tank builds have right to exist at the same power level of those one shot builds.
As an another example, steel tornado hits around 6k up to 6 people in 10m radius, costs almost nothing and gains stamina for each kill + axe bleeds if caster have it, but there is no heal/shield equivalent to that power level. Only maybe Lingering Ritual but it has 2 sec cast time.
I dont thing adding more powerful defensive options to game will make players "unkillable". No one was unkillable back then when there were no wrecking blows criting for 15k. Everyone was super tanky with shield stacks, perma blocking and impen, immovable spam and all those *** but we still were dying everyday hundreds of times. Even Sheliza the (so called) Unkillable was dying lol.
Think about that for a second, the way everyone kills Templars is by CCing them. If you gave them a MAGICKA immovable, you would not be able to kill them. Every class is powerful, but you need a way to kill them. that's the problem with Sorcs right now, and that would put Templars in the same problem.
1. NBs and sorcs are OP in compare with dks and templars, so does making dks and templars OP will equalize classes?(yes, i prefer to see dks and temps buffed instead of sorcs and nbs nerfed, like rest of forum ask)
2. When dks will be fixed [especially skills like DragonBlood], dks will be on top of food chain again coz people already changed their builds to increase their survivability. With such obvious sustain fixes and promised DD capability buffed, DKs magicka dks will run Cyro again. So templars,if they won't get noticeble defensive mechanics, will be on bottom of food chain again; but now without magicka dks buddies, i.e. same situation that happened after 1.5.
3. Even this suggestion about Eclipse won't make this skill better than Blinding Flashes, and BF were removed not coz it was OP in PvP, but because it was OP in PvE(LOL?). However i agree, ability in Dawn Wrath tree should have some damage output, not to be pure defense, even Searing Light morph of BL prevoiusly had 8m aoe damage in addition to granted defense.
4. Lets be honest, BoL is only thing that keeps templars alive in Cyro, templars invested all resources to buff healing output and forced to play healers in heavy armor. 1 skill for defense is perfect example how terrible current situation with class. I won't mind such things like LoS for BoL to prevent it from abusing but giving other defensive skills. DK' with fixed DragonBlood healing output equal to Templar with Honor the Dead, but unlike templar they have scales, aoe interrupts, aoe damage mitigations(like Choking Talons), so they require to invest much less resources in defense and thats allowing them to be stronger DD than templars. DK who will invest as much resources in defense as templar forced to, will be 5 times tougher than templar.
In the end, obviously ZOS already implemented their changes and our decisions won't make any difference till we try new skills on pts.
People keep saying dk's are more 'tanky' than other classes, im curious how so?
1. They have 2 passives to restore resources. i.e. 2 passives to restore stamina allowing to hold block much-much longer. Templar has only such weird thing like Repentance
2. They have magical wings of fairy dragon called Scales. Imagine that 4 Frags or 4 Lethal Arrows flying toward you and each will hit you for 8k=32k damage in total. And pressing 1magic button making you negate this 32k damage. Even BoL looks pale in compare to this
3. They have best defensive ultimates(Standart apply damage mitigation buff on you, unlike Nova that apply only damage debuff on enemy, zero enemies in Nova=zero effect. Leap grants solid damage shield in addition to high damage and solid CC, Armor making you literally god-mode for 9 sec). Btw i imagine insane damage magicka dks will deal if one morph of Leap will be changed to deal elemental/magical damage.
4. They have aoe root skill(Choking Talons) that doing literally what Empowering Sweep ult doing for templar.
5. They can blockcasting their skills, so they don't need to hold-off block to fight enemy. Unlike templar, who dd skills are mostly channeled.
6. They probably will have back fixed DragonBlood that equal to templar Honor the Dead, i.e. evey dk again will be as good at self-healing as templar.
^^^this is more than enough to be best tanks.
You are saying DKs are better tanks than templars. That does not make them "tanky."
As long as Cyrodiil heavily favors burst damage / maneuverability and Wrobel insists on keeping ultimate tied to a cooldown, magicka DKs will not rule Cyrodiil.
Everything he listed does describe how DK's are tanky.
1. Passives help them block longer than other classes.
2. Scales reflects ranged attacks which means they don't have to break LoS or anything and can just stand there taking damage and dealing it right back. No other class has this.
3. You should check out magma armor, it caps incoming damage. No other class has this.
4. Rooting keeps enemies near them. Sorcs have this with encase.
6. Block casting keeps them alive longer. This works for any class with insta cast abilities but most of the DK's abilities are insta cast.
7. If Dragon Blood gets fixed then it will be comparable to BoL and it's cheaper which would mean they would be able to heal themselves competently without a pocket healer.
All this adds up to better tankiness. He compared much of the DK to Templars because this is a Templar thread and Templars are supposed to be somewhat tanky as well.
Blockcasting? What is this, 1.5? Here's #8 for you: a (magicka) DK actually has to theorycraft and have a specific build to attain the same sustainability any magicka templar can get from spamming puncturing sweeps. None of this makes a DK "tanky." I know DKs and templars are supposed to be "tanky" - which is a stupid ambiguous term by the way - but a sorcerer and a nightblade are better equipped to survive, let alone overcome, the various dangers this game presents as challenges.
I play a templar and have specifically told ZoS what was wrong with the class so I am in no way exagerrating their effectiveness. But the whole anarchonistic reputation that magicka DKs are just "tanky" is outdated nonsense that does nothing to clarify the state of class balance in this game.
If templars are striving to be just as "tanky" as a magicka DK, then templars standards are very low and are in for a rude awakening if ZoS ever accedes to such a request.
I'm not trying to argue that DK's are not in a bad spot. They do make good tanks though, I'm sorry if you can't see this. My entire point was that Gindri's list did point out how DK's can be tanky. I think we all want DK's and Templars to be on par with Sorcs and Nightblades but I'm not sure how arguing over this point further will help this thread out.
It's quite simple. Every time you or someone else on this forum insists that DKs are "tanky," then ZoS has one more reason to pat themselves on the back for 1.6 and maintain this stupid status quo that heavily favors burst damage and mobility which will leave DKs and Templars out in the cold again.
But, by all means, keep telling ZoS that DKs are "tanky" and that Templars should strive to such heights. Maybe they will inspired to modify Breath of Life the way they did Dragon's Blood
I apologize for pointing out some positives the DK had. I realize now that I made a grave error and that I have mislead ZOS. If this next patch turns out to be *** for DKs everywhere, then you can go ahead and blame me.0 -
Callidus_Est✭✭Callidus_Est wrote: »Callidus_Est wrote: »
Maybe because that's the purpose of the build? If people can literally kill under one sec, then tough heal/tank builds have right to exist at the same power level of those one shot builds.
As an another example, steel tornado hits around 6k up to 6 people in 10m radius, costs almost nothing and gains stamina for each kill + axe bleeds if caster have it, but there is no heal/shield equivalent to that power level. Only maybe Lingering Ritual but it has 2 sec cast time.
I dont thing adding more powerful defensive options to game will make players "unkillable". No one was unkillable back then when there were no wrecking blows criting for 15k. Everyone was super tanky with shield stacks, perma blocking and impen, immovable spam and all those *** but we still were dying everyday hundreds of times. Even Sheliza the (so called) Unkillable was dying lol.
Think about that for a second, the way everyone kills Templars is by CCing them. If you gave them a MAGICKA immovable, you would not be able to kill them. Every class is powerful, but you need a way to kill them. that's the problem with Sorcs right now, and that would put Templars in the same problem.
Hmmm, so stam classes that can use Immovable are "unkillable" and that's okay? But a Magicka skill that grants the same immunity to immobilizes is not okay?
Stamina builds do not have Breath of life, and tell me one "celebrity" 1vxer stam toon that uses immoveable.Edited by Callidus_Est on January 26, 2016 8:44PMSalmion Loreius - V16 Templar Healer
Filramo Loreius - V16 Sorcerer Tank
Callidus Est - V16 Magicka Nightblade PvP
Callius Alfeon - V4 Stamina Templar0 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »
It much more tanky in compare with another "hold your ground" class - templar.leepalmer95 wrote: »
It is more "problematic":Callidus_Est wrote: »Callidus_Est wrote: »
Maybe because that's the purpose of the build? If people can literally kill under one sec, then tough heal/tank builds have right to exist at the same power level of those one shot builds.
As an another example, steel tornado hits around 6k up to 6 people in 10m radius, costs almost nothing and gains stamina for each kill + axe bleeds if caster have it, but there is no heal/shield equivalent to that power level. Only maybe Lingering Ritual but it has 2 sec cast time.
I dont thing adding more powerful defensive options to game will make players "unkillable". No one was unkillable back then when there were no wrecking blows criting for 15k. Everyone was super tanky with shield stacks, perma blocking and impen, immovable spam and all those *** but we still were dying everyday hundreds of times. Even Sheliza the (so called) Unkillable was dying lol.
Think about that for a second, the way everyone kills Templars is by CCing them. If you gave them a MAGICKA immovable, you would not be able to kill them. Every class is powerful, but you need a way to kill them. that's the problem with Sorcs right now, and that would put Templars in the same problem.
1. NBs and sorcs are OP in compare with dks and templars, so does making dks and templars OP will equalize classes?(yes, i prefer to see dks and temps buffed instead of sorcs and nbs nerfed, like rest of forum ask)
2. When dks will be fixed [especially skills like DragonBlood], dks will be on top of food chain again coz people already changed their builds to increase their survivability. With such obvious sustain fixes and promised DD capability buffed, DKs magicka dks will run Cyro again. So templars,if they won't get noticeble defensive mechanics, will be on bottom of food chain again; but now without magicka dks buddies, i.e. same situation that happened after 1.5.
3. Even this suggestion about Eclipse won't make this skill better than Blinding Flashes, and BF were removed not coz it was OP in PvP, but because it was OP in PvE(LOL?). However i agree, ability in Dawn Wrath tree should have some damage output, not to be pure defense, even Searing Light morph of BL prevoiusly had 8m aoe damage in addition to granted defense.
4. Lets be honest, BoL is only thing that keeps templars alive in Cyro, templars invested all resources to buff healing output and forced to play healers in heavy armor. 1 skill for defense is perfect example how terrible current situation with class. I won't mind such things like LoS for BoL to prevent it from abusing but giving other defensive skills. DK' with fixed DragonBlood healing output equal to Templar with Honor the Dead, but unlike templar they have scales, aoe interrupts, aoe damage mitigations(like Choking Talons), so they require to invest much less resources in defense and thats allowing them to be stronger DD than templars. DK who will invest as much resources in defense as templar forced to, will be 5 times tougher than templar.
In the end, obviously ZOS already implemented their changes and our decisions won't make any difference till we try new skills on pts.
People keep saying dk's are more 'tanky' than other classes, im curious how so?
1. They have 2 passives to restore resources. i.e. 2 passives to restore stamina allowing to hold block much-much longer. Templar has only such weird thing like Repentance
2. They have magical wings of fairy dragon called Scales. Imagine that 4 Frags or 4 Lethal Arrows flying toward you and each will hit you for 8k=32k damage in total. And pressing 1magic button making you negate this 32k damage. Even BoL looks pale in compare to this
3. They have best defensive ultimates(Standart apply damage mitigation buff on you, unlike Nova that apply only damage debuff on enemy, zero enemies in Nova=zero effect. Leap grants solid damage shield in addition to high damage and solid CC, Armor making you literally god-mode for 9 sec). Btw i imagine insane damage magicka dks will deal if one morph of Leap will be changed to deal elemental/magical damage.
4. They have aoe root skill(Choking Talons) that doing literally what Empowering Sweep ult doing for templar.
5. They can blockcasting their skills, so they don't need to hold-off block to fight enemy. Unlike templar, who dd skills are mostly channeled.
6. They probably will have back fixed DragonBlood that equal to templar Honor the Dead, i.e. evey dk again will be as good at self-healing as templar.
^^^this is more than enough to be best tanks.
You are saying DKs are better tanks than templars. That does not make them "tanky."
As long as Cyrodiil heavily favors burst damage / maneuverability and Wrobel insists on keeping ultimate tied to a cooldown, magicka DKs will not rule Cyrodiil.
Everything he listed does describe how DK's are tanky.
1. Passives help them block longer than other classes.
2. Scales reflects ranged attacks which means they don't have to break LoS or anything and can just stand there taking damage and dealing it right back. No other class has this.
3. You should check out magma armor, it caps incoming damage. No other class has this.
4. Rooting keeps enemies near them. Sorcs have this with encase.
6. Block casting keeps them alive longer. This works for any class with insta cast abilities but most of the DK's abilities are insta cast.
7. If Dragon Blood gets fixed then it will be comparable to BoL and it's cheaper which would mean they would be able to heal themselves competently without a pocket healer.
All this adds up to better tankiness. He compared much of the DK to Templars because this is a Templar thread and Templars are supposed to be somewhat tanky as well.
Blockcasting? What is this, 1.5? Here's #8 for you: a (magicka) DK actually has to theorycraft and have a specific build to attain the same sustainability any magicka templar can get from spamming puncturing sweeps. None of this makes a DK "tanky." I know DKs and templars are supposed to be "tanky" - which is a stupid ambiguous term by the way - but a sorcerer and a nightblade are better equipped to survive, let alone overcome, the various dangers this game presents as challenges.
I play a templar and have specifically told ZoS what was wrong with the class so I am in no way exagerrating their effectiveness. But the whole anarchonistic reputation that magicka DKs are just "tanky" is outdated nonsense that does nothing to clarify the state of class balance in this game.
If templars are striving to be just as "tanky" as a magicka DK, then templars standards are very low and are in for a rude awakening if ZoS ever accedes to such a request.
I'm not trying to argue that DK's are not in a bad spot. They do make good tanks though, I'm sorry if you can't see this. My entire point was that Gindri's list did point out how DK's can be tanky. I think we all want DK's and Templars to be on par with Sorcs and Nightblades but I'm not sure how arguing over this point further will help this thread out.
It's quite simple. Every time you or someone else on this forum insists that DKs are "tanky," then ZoS has one more reason to pat themselves on the back for 1.6 and maintain this stupid status quo that heavily favors burst damage and mobility which will leave DKs and Templars out in the cold again.
But, by all means, keep telling ZoS that DKs are "tanky" and that Templars should strive to such heights. Maybe they will inspired to modify Breath of Life the way they did Dragon's Blood
I apologize for pointing out some positives the DK had. I realize now that I made a grave error and that I have mislead ZOS. If this next patch turns out to be *** for DKs everywhere, then you can go ahead and blame me.
You did more than "pointing out some positives the DK had." You said "Everything he listed does describe how DK's are tanky" and "I'm sorry if you can't see this," which clearly state I'm wrong and that DKs are tanks worthy of inspiration. It's not the DKs I am worried about. I'm worried that ZoS will try to make templars "tankier" by taking inspiration from current DKs because so many people just parrot the notion they are "tanky." This will mean another year of frustration and resolve none of the issues templars face.Edited by Joy_Division on January 26, 2016 8:45PMMake Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.1
