Warning to Zenimax.

  • Wolfshead
    Wolfshead
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    @edorfeus

    What you most be joking now when come to SWTOR you tell me that SWTOR is dying the are more people in that game now never before heck all zone the are people play and it have never be so easy to do pug instance or pug raid in SWTOR then are now honest i think you have not been play SWTOR for while and to be total honest with you I have been play SWTOR since 2010 and i have never see what you are talk about with SWTOR the it is dying.

    How do you know even know that ESO is dying for to my knowledge so have ZoS never say anything about player number in ESO so honest no one know to 100% how many that is play ESO beside ZoS themself so sit here say thing that ESO is dying when you cant back it up with any proof like player number do i think it is a pointless effort on your part :smile:

    I get you want more PvP content and i do understand if you are into PvP alot that you dont like get PvE content but what you need to understand is 1 thing when come to MMO and MMORPG it take time to get everthing in place take WoW it took them over 10 year to add playerhouse it took them 2 expansion to add barbershop it took them 1 expansion add arena PvP it took them 4 expansion to add flying in whole game beside 2 starting zone.

    My point is that we cant get everything right way even if ZoS so wise to gave to us.

    PS. I would more worry about WoW for i read last PC Gamer that Blizzard is go to stop show how many player that is play WoW there official reason is that Blizzard think the are other way to show how many that is play there game but sad true about is that down to 5,5 million and i think Blizzard is scary that more people is go to leave WoW if the know how low the subscribe number are in WoW.
    If you find yourself alone, riding in green fields with the sun on your face, do not be troubled; for you are in Elysium, and you're already dead
    What we do in life, echoes in eternity
  • k2blader
    k2blader
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    I had a ton of fun in this game in its early stage before the removal of forward camps and other PvP screw ups. However, I partially blame the players who caused the removal of forward camps with their anger over folks being able to reenter the battle quickly and easily. Way to kill the fun, way to kill the population, guys. Then again, most of you aren't even playing anymore. lol
    Disabling the grass may improve performance.
  • Sharakor
    Sharakor
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    I agree and FYI I just came across a post in which someone explains hit chat with a supposed staff member which hints into thinking that there will be a nerf across all stamina based abilities. Again this is SUPPOSEDLY a staff member he talked with and its all hypothetical (avoids banishment)...
    MrGrimey wrote: »
    Why would you do it without vigor?

    There are people who do not pvp. So he asking if anyone has done it without because some people who bought the dlc are PvE only and technically don't have it.

    This is just an assumption though.


    I talked to Zos_Seiffer (only has a twitch account, no eso forum account) who was apart of the dungeon development team and created the maelstrom arena. He was in a stream the other day cheering on ProSophist_ a ps4 player (:itsneno on twitch) on his first vMA play through. I actually asked Seiffer if he could track all this information because i was struggling trying to even finish vMA as a vampire NB. The Zos employee said he can get the information from each person who completes the arena. Character sheet's and skill's. However i'm sure this is classified information. He also stated that vMA is indeed a dps race.

    Also that there are going to be change's to stamina based class skill's in the near future. He mentioned class balance changes are coming with changes to vMA itself. No date but this is what me and him were taking about. No detail's about the changes specifically but he did state what i've mentioned above. I know for a fact he said stamina specifically. We just have to wait and see.



    I hope this help's.



    Friend to few, hated by many, intimidated by no one.
    BwB Destruction Solo Gameplay
  • AngryNord
    AngryNord
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    Sausage wrote: »
    There isnt even trial and you're sayin this game is dying? If they manage to survive to ES6 launch Im sure it boost population again, not to mention they might be doing Expansion too, I actually believe its happening as they removed VRs, they had to remove VRs from expansion's way.

    I think it's pretty obvious that IF a TES6 is ever announced, ESO will shut down shortly after...
  • BalticBlues
    BalticBlues
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    AngryNord wrote: »
    IF a TES6 is ever announced, ESO will shut down shortly after...
    This is why we won't get a TES6 for a very looooooooong time, as Pete Hines said:
    http://www.dualshockers.com/2015/08/09/it-will-be-a-very-long-time-before-bethesda-talks-about-the-next-elder-scrolls-game/

    I loved TES, and I also like ESO, but I would not have traded TES6 for the state ESO is in now.
    I even did not buy the Witcher yet to play ESO, but with all the Templar nerfs, I am now fed up.
    This Christmas, I will be playing the Witcher. I have enough of being an underdog Templar in ESO.

    Edited by BalticBlues on December 1, 2015 8:51AM
  • Islyn
    Islyn
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    edorfeus wrote: »
    nimander99 wrote: »
    I read an interesting statistic among paying customers in f2p games a while back and I wish I wasn't so lazy cause id search it out and plug the link, but the gist of it was PVP centric players tend to spend the least amount of money in mmo's whereas PVE centric players dump veritable cheddar on fluff.

    Well, I don't know about the statistic you've read, but I can say that many PVP players dump as much (if not more) money into games. The cosmetic stuff, crafting stuff and so on.
    I, myself, dropped enough money into this game too. I was a subscriber when it was necessary, and I couldn't complain about it, because what is 10 bucks a month for a great leisure?
    You underestimate the PVP community (not talking about some 13 year old schoolkids).

    Except you're not paying now because........?
    Casualty

    THIS IS WHY ELE DRAIN AND ORBS ARE IMPORTANT IF YOU'RE A HEALER see reply below from DK who cleared Sanctum Hard Mode with 5 Player Group
    http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/241875/5-man-so-hm-hf
    Islyn wrote: »
    That whips DK though - love the mana Not Being Empty!

    I would LOVE some tips! I tend to burn through my mana TOO FAST (I use same rotation etc) and I am not sure what I am doing wrong?

    Any advice from that DK would be SO appreciated!
    YoloWizard wrote: »
    Well, I don't probably do anything different than you its all about the healer you run with. @Kathrein was applying elemental drain and throwing mystic orbs from time to time to synergies. Other than that I would be at 0 magicka all the time
    ZOS?
    Member of the Old Guard - Closed Betas 2013
  • Sausage
    Sausage
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    AngryNord wrote: »
    Sausage wrote: »
    There isnt even trial and you're sayin this game is dying? If they manage to survive to ES6 launch Im sure it boost population again, not to mention they might be doing Expansion too, I actually believe its happening as they removed VRs, they had to remove VRs from expansion's way.

    I think it's pretty obvious that IF a TES6 is ever announced, ESO will shut down shortly after...

    Are you trolling? You know Skyrim has more players than ESO? So if Skyrim and ESO can live side by side Im sure ESO and ES6 can do the same. ESO is simply massive game what requires lots of time, thats why I believe many people prefer Skyrim, thats is exactly the reason why Ive fought to make sure Devs realize casuality is the key to success, dont listen some no-lifers or you sink.
    Edited by Sausage on December 1, 2015 9:25AM
  • BalticBlues
    BalticBlues
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    Sausage wrote: »
    So if Skyrim and ESO can live side by side Im sure ESO and ES6 can do the same.
    Probably not. Skyrim is years old and still selling good,
    ESO is new but already losing tons of people, at least on consoles.

    PVE: Here ESO makes good progress. It has been weak compared to Skyrim, but Orisinimum is really good and worth the money. There still is a considerable way to go to reach the immersion of Skyrim, but at least ZOS is on its way here.

    PVP: Here it is ESO would need to shine, but it currently is an unbalanced mess in steady decline.
    There only are two classes left that can compete, and even Sorcs are rerolling as NBs now.
    IC as the most important PvP release is pretty much dead two months after release.

    PvP is where PvE players should have fun after completing their PvE quests.
    However, instead of fun most people who do not play a NB now find frustration in PvP.
    With a TES6, probably most PvE people would leave ESO. This probably would be the end.

    Summary: If ESO will die, it will not die because of its pretty solid PVE.
    It will die because of its lackluster, unbalanced PvP. PvP is so absurdly broken now, that
    skills you rely on in PvE do not work anymore at all like that in PvP.
    Examples: Healing Ward or Blazing Shields now are useless in PvP.
    PvP is only about DPS now.

    Edited by BalticBlues on December 1, 2015 10:14AM
  • Artheiron
    Artheiron
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    Designer crew, you guys rock and deserve the best to unleash your talents. But...

    First elder scrolls game that we'll pay extra money for theieves guild and dark brotherhood. First tes game we forced to pay extra for the glass/dwemer armor. Hopefully the last game of the ZOS' financial executive crew on gaming industry or whoever gives these stupid decisions. Dude, I have money, truck load of money, bring me content and I'll buy, simple as it. Don't try to steal stuff from me and sell it back to me.

    that's my warning.
  • Sevalaricgirl
    Sevalaricgirl
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    @BalticBlues Yes, but you're thinking that most players participate in PvP. They do not. They are in the game because of the PvE. PvP is a minority population which is why ZOS is focusing on PvE. And you saying that most people should go to PvP to have fun. I hate PvP as do many, many others. I doubt I'd have fun there. It's bad enough the crap that's being said in zone chat. I doubt PvP chat is any better and I doubt you wouldn't get harassed in ESO PvP for any number of stupid things. So no, I'd never play PvP as a source of fun. You must know that ZOS has metrics.
    Edited by Sevalaricgirl on December 1, 2015 10:43AM
    Riana The Bosmer "AGP, Against the Green Pact", stam nb, vet, Master Crafter, werewolf
    Decima Meridius, Black Knight of Daggerfall, Protector of the KIng, Imperial stam dk, vet, werewolf
    Faramir of Somerset, of the Daggerfall Somersets, Breton vamp mag sorc
    Rhiordan Carrick, Imperial, warden
    J'aime Snow, Khajiit, mag templar
    Caelia Sarmosa, Imperial, Stam Sorc
    Claire Snow, Jaime's sister, mag nb, vamp
  • BalticBlues
    BalticBlues
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    PvP is a minority population which is why ZOS is focusing on PvE. And you saying that most people should go to PvP to have fun. I hate PvP as do many, many others. I doubt I'd have fun there.
    @Sevalaricgirl We are absolutely in the same boat. I also came to ESO because I loved the PvE in Skyrim. However, if ESO wants to survive a TES6 (which I doubt we will see for years because of ESO), people who love PvE should also find some fun in PvP too. Unfortunately, with each patch PvP moves further away from PvE: Skills you learn to master in PvE do not work in PvP anymore like that. Even worse: To "balance" PvP , ZOS crippled the Templar/DK classes which therefore now have problems in Maelstrom Arena PvE. This way, PvP even damages the PvE in this game.

    I agree with you, it is the PvE players who keep ESO alive. But if ZOS cripples PvE more and more with each patch and still cannot find a PvP balance, I wonder how long PvE players will be entertained? Orsinium brings 20 happy hours. What do PvE people after that? PvP is broken as of now, there is no balance. Roll a NB to like all PvP players do? I am not interested. I probably rather go playing FO4 or the Witcher after Orsinium.

    Summary: The PVE in ESO now is good with Orsinium, still not up to par with dedicated single player titles as Skyrim, FO4 or the Witcher. Therefore, for PvE players the PvP should work as a bonus. Instead, the horribly unbalanced PvP works as a malus. You say you even "hate PvP, as do many". After the Imperial City DLC, I do not find that surprising. This DLC features the most unbalanced, I would even say disgusting PvP gameplay I ever experienced in any game, favoring a single cloaking class and rewarding the worst kind of of player behavior. Such horribly unbalanced PvP gameplay damages the game for PvE players instead of prolonging their gameplay experience, and I am afraid this could break ESO the neck on the long run.

    Edited by BalticBlues on December 1, 2015 12:38PM
  • Sevalaricgirl
    Sevalaricgirl
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    @BalticBlues They'll just add more PvE content. Most people who play the game play alts. I do. I also have a nightblade and a DK and a templar and a sorc. I know what they've done with balance and how much of an issue it is. I just adjust my play style. My biggest problem is having to pay to respec when they are the ones that screw up the balance. I do think they need to hire someone who knows how to fix combat because they are doing a dreadfully poor job of it. Still, you won't ever catch me in PvP unless I can go to a server that has zero population. I am not totally against PvP. I used to play it all the time in SWTOR and GW2. What I am against is the name calling, bigotry and sexual innuendos that come out of some of the 13 to 19 yr old's keyboards as they are typing insults.
    Edited by Sevalaricgirl on December 1, 2015 12:50PM
    Riana The Bosmer "AGP, Against the Green Pact", stam nb, vet, Master Crafter, werewolf
    Decima Meridius, Black Knight of Daggerfall, Protector of the KIng, Imperial stam dk, vet, werewolf
    Faramir of Somerset, of the Daggerfall Somersets, Breton vamp mag sorc
    Rhiordan Carrick, Imperial, warden
    J'aime Snow, Khajiit, mag templar
    Caelia Sarmosa, Imperial, Stam Sorc
    Claire Snow, Jaime's sister, mag nb, vamp
  • BalticBlues
    BalticBlues
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    I do think they need to hire someone who knows how to fix combat because they are doing a dreadfully poor job of it.
    I fully agree to that. It is unbelievable how PvP is getting worse with each patch.
    Because of that, NBs now probably make 70% of PvP with good reason.
    PvP is that unbalanced in favor of NBs.
    I am not totally against PvP. I used to play it all the time in SWTOR and GW2. What I am against is the name calling, bigotry and sexual innuendos that come out of some of the 13 to 19 yr old's keyboards as they are typing insults.
    Indeed, such behavior should not be tolerated by ZOS.
    However, I would not let bad kids spoil the experience.
    It probably would be better to find a nice guild to play with.

    Or you should come over to us on consoles.
    We do not have text chat, only voice chat that most people do not use.
    You could love (or hate) this totally quiet, isolated and peaceful environment. :*

    Edited by BalticBlues on December 1, 2015 1:03PM
  • Sausage
    Sausage
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    You guys gotta remember its Christmas, theres tons of new games. I for example, bought Fallout 4, Assassin Creed, Mad Max and Dying Light just recently, from Black Friday.
    Edited by Sausage on December 1, 2015 1:09PM
  • Lifecode666
    Lifecode666
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    same with age of conan.
    It was a really good game back in the day, and the combosystem was a killer.
    But failed because no focus on pvpcontent/classbalance and siegewars.

    infact all games i've tested that are mmo's have failed because of the lack of these issues.

    Up the hornz
  • Morozov
    Morozov
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    Sharee wrote: »
    edorfeus wrote: »
    Do you even read what your community posts on this forum? Don't you see the huge pile of complaints? Fix this, fix that, buff this...

    Show me an official MMO forum without a huge pile of complaints.

    Forums are the complaint department of MMO's. Most players who are unhappy come to post there. Most players who are happy just play the game and ignore the forums.

    I would be interested in seeing which pile is greater....the pile of complaints, or the pile of happy players.

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  • Asherons_Call
    Asherons_Call
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    Go figure. I think ESO is getting progressively better
  • Lifecode666
    Lifecode666
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    Go figure. I think ESO is getting progressively better

    You have a good point, but the thing is that that people have waited for certain fixes for over 1 year
    Up the hornz
  • temjiu
    temjiu
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    AngryNord wrote: »
    temjiu wrote: »
    edorfeus wrote: »
    Jura23 wrote: »
    Any examples of good young MMOs? I'm interested in those more than examples of bad MMOs.

    ESO was good for some time since launch. Yes, it had bugs, glitches, but they did some right decisions along the way for almost a year. And when the game hit year 2, it has been deteriorating to this very day.

    Funny you say that. I remember a mass exodus of players shorty after the release of the game. So much so that Zenimin scrambled to change the end game to try and keep people.

    How did they "scramle to change the end game" just after release?
    (No, Veteran ranks always were in the game. Cadwell's Gold and Silver too)

    Not sure where you got the idea that I said that VR didn't exist on release. I know it was there, i was there on release. and Caldwells was there as well. I never said it wasn't. Now, it was well known that the VR progression wasn't originally in the design, and it was added later in the process. And in all honesty...that shows as well. it's clunky and poorly thought out.

    However, while on the subject of VR and caldwell, VR IS GOING AWAY. And they have longer term plans on changing caldwell's completely as well. By this next year, the elder game will be completely different then it was on release. Changing your entire endgame doesn't happen overnight, even if you are scrambling to keep your players playing. It's not a decision you make on the fly. It's usually in response to a drastically negative response from players (a.k.a the market). But the exodus happened, and it was shortly after release. It takes awhile to change something that big...but they are. VR is going away. CP was created as a gap filler, and is probably here to stay. they are going to a scaling model, rather then keeping the traditional "leveling" model post 50.

    I suppose my comment could elicit a picture of developers madly scrambling to change the entire game a week after it's release. and this of course didn't happen. But to be honest, ESO had one of the biggest transitions in MMO's I've seen in most my time playing them (I started back in DAoC days if your wondering), with only WIldstar topping it.

    a gaming company doesn't make plans to do an entire revision of their end game post launch unless things are really going south. And I was expecting them to do just about everything they ended up doing, because it was needed. and the level of complaints on the forums about Elder game was huge. And the dedicated players were laughing at the complainers and told them to "not let the door hit you on the way out." I remember, i was part of many of those discussions.

    So many people took the advice and left. and the developer team that stated in an interview that they had "no plans on ever going free to play", well...they went f2p. all the evidence points to one concept: that they did not develop the end game well, and it hurt them bad. Like i stated above, the only MMO I've seen move faster to try and adjust their game was Wildstar...and ironically, the dev's over there were pretty self-assured as well that their game was "subscriber worthy" and didn't plan on going f2p. Sure is amazing how the market doesn't always agree with the dev's, huh.

    So to say that they game was great at the start, and progressively got worse, is not really true. unless its purely a personal perspective. Which is fine...nothing wrong with saying that "I loved the game since the start". But the OP said that they game was fine since the start, when it obviously wasn't. it had a real rocky start, and things went downhill after that once players started hitting 50. then they started doing the changes.

    the MARKET indicated it wasn't happy with the game. period. Now, it doesn't mean that there weren't people who loved it, and people who even stuck around because they didn't mind it. And that's totally cool. But in all honestly, ESO was one of the first MMO's that I loved for 1/3 of the game, But couldn't stand playing it for the rest. so did many others. And it showed.
  • temjiu
    temjiu
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    edorfeus wrote: »
    I'm not saying that adding PVE content is bad, I enjoy it very much actually. What I'm talking about is that you can't just ignore the game's problems and try to conceal it behind the tons of new content and you also can't focus on one aspect of the game. PVP players are the same players as anyone, yet they show us the great disrespect and sometimes pretend that PVP players don't exist at all. I can't say I'm a true hardcore PVPer, I'm not, really. I do both. But seeing as one is sinking into oblivion is unbearable.
    Imagine you have a pain in one of your buttcheeks, but the other one feels perfectly fine. Would you be fine with that? Would you be fine with ONE HALF of your butt causing pain and just festering with some sort of desease? I don't think so.

    Your right. I wouldn't tolerate one of my butt cheeks bugging me. I am very sensitive to my butt cheek's needs. I rely on them for most of my day (work on computers). they are important to me :smile:

    And on all honestly I don't disagree with allot of your points here. Mostly because this time you didn't generalize and say that the game was bad, you pointed out very real concerns. Now, I will say that much of that is personal feelings on the subject. You didn't define what they are "ignoring". but I'll try to touch on a few general concepts below. Just see them as points to personally ponder.

    #1 - ESO releases "playstyle" expansions rather then "global" expansions. Most MMO's try to add a bit of everything in each expansion. PvP, PvE, Solo, group, crafting, etc. Zenimore seems to prefer to release content one playstyle at a time. Craglonely was group play, about 95% of it. Imperial City was totally PvP. Yeah, I know, people say there's PvE content in it...but I'm a dedicated PvE player, and I don't go to the Imperial City, which says allot, as I do go to Cyrodill on occasion. So really, IC was all about PvP.

    Now this latest release is about PvE, and mostly solo. see how it all worked out? It's not my preferred approach to releases, but it's the model they're using. I can see why a PvP player would feel like they were being ignored with the release of Orsinium...but in all honesty, it's what pulled me back to the game. Craiglonely and Imperial Gankfest had nothing that I desired. Orsinium is awesome. so PvP feels isolated for one expansion, welcome to the crowd. I felt isolated for 2.

    #2 Now, if PvP balance is your concern, that touches on a much deeper issue then ESO. the inherent design of PvP and PvE are at odds with each other. This may be out of the scope of this thread, but they are two very different game styles with very different needs. One will always end up being trumped for the other when it comes down to making design choices. One usually ends up suffering when the other triumphs. It's been that way since i first set out in DAoC (which ironically had one of the best PvP games I ever enjoyed....but then again it was RvR, not really PvP in the same sense). So balance issues are less the game and more that the two elements are at odds with each other.
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