Warning to Zenimax.

edorfeus
edorfeus
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There still may be enough players in this game to keep financing your and to keep this game running, but I will give you a nice example of a similar game that is dying and is pretty much dead already.
The DCUO (DC unverse online)
They did all the things you're doing now. They kept ruining the game (PVP most of all) with each update, and just adding more and more PVE content, and some crap to they're in game store for people to buy for money (cosmetic, utility and so on). And with each update there were fewer and fewer players left. And now you see the same people on the server in DCUO. You see the same people in the pvp arena and the group finder for raids.
Do you even read what your community posts on this forum? Don't you see the huge pile of complaints? Fix this, fix that, buff this... But all you do is throwing more and more PVE stuff and crown store BS.
I truly love this game since launch, but with each month I feel that it brings more frustration and headache than joy. You keep buffing what doesn't need buffing and nerfing what doesn't need nerfing.
It's the same case as Star Wars The Old Republic. The whole design and concept was provided by bioware, but the actual gameplay mechanics and balancing things and so on is managed by EA, which made this game a piece of crap eventually, and it's also dying now.
You, Zenimax, are ruining the Bethesda's Elder Scrolls setting and design with your poor management.
Please stop!
Edited by edorfeus on November 30, 2015 11:03PM
  • Jura23
    Jura23
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    Any examples of good young MMOs? I'm interested in those more than examples of bad MMOs.
    Georgion - Bosmer/Templar - PC/EU
  • Justice31st
    Justice31st
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    Consoles do not have much of a selection to switch to when it comes to MMO's and they know this.
    "The more you know who you are, and what you want, the less you let things upset you."
  • edorfeus
    edorfeus
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    Consoles do not have much of a selection to switch to when it comes to MMO's and they know this.

    So what? Is that the reason to ruin the game focusing on console market? What about the PC players?
    I started out in ESO as a PC player, but when it was released on console I switched, because I find playing on console more comfortable. I still have a PC and could just drop that crap and go play any other MMO. Do you think I'm the only one who has the game on both pc and console? Doubt it... There are tons of people like me.
  • edorfeus
    edorfeus
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    Sharee wrote: »
    edorfeus wrote: »
    Do you even read what your community posts on this forum? Don't you see the huge pile of complaints? Fix this, fix that, buff this...

    Show me an official MMO forum without a huge pile of complaints.

    Forums are the complaint department of MMO's. Most players who are unhappy come to post there. Most players who are happy just play the game and ignore the forums.

    Yeah, you know, that's the reason I've actually registered on this forum just a couple months ago. I didn't need it before. It was kind of all right. But the state of the game made me register here and try to find out what are the reasons the game I liked so much became such as it is now.
  • edorfeus
    edorfeus
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    Whether the game is dying or thriving is honestly in the eyes of the beholder when it comes to opinion. Certain segments of the playerbase care more about certain parts of the game than others, so each and every change they make will only influence that portion of the playerbase and the rest won't care.

    As for me? No I do not believe this game is dieing. I know when an MMO is dieing and this one isn't. Not yet...

    That's what I'm talking about. I didn't say ESO is already dying, no. As I have mentioned the playerbase is still good enough, but the symptoms of the plague can already be seen, and no one seems to care about curing that plague. And you know what happens if you don't cure the plague? Yes, you die. That's what going to happen to this game if they continue to do what they do.
  • nimander99
    nimander99
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    Also, swtor was never a good game. It was Star Warscraft
    Edited by nimander99 on November 30, 2015 11:21PM
    I AM UPDATING MY PRIVACY POLICY

    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

    ∽∽∽ 2 years of Elder Scrolls Online ∼∼∼
    "Give us money" = Box sales & monthly sub fees,
    "moar!" = £10 palomino horse,
    "MOAR!" = Switch to B2P, launch cash shop,
    "MOAR!!" = Charge for DLC that subs had already paid for,
    "MOAR!!!" = Experience scrolls and riding lessons,
    "MOARR!!!" = Vampire/werewolf bites,
    "MOAARRR!!!" = CS exclusive motifs,
    "MOOAARRR!!!" = Crown crates,
    "MOOOAAARRR!!!" = 'Chapter's' bought separately from ESO+,
    "MOOOOAAAARRRR!!!!" = ???

    Male, Dunmer, VR16, Templar, Aldmeri Dominion, Master Crafter & all Traits, CP450
  • edorfeus
    edorfeus
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    nimander99 wrote: »
    Im willing to bet the vast majority of player are long time fans of the Scrolls series and we would love to see more and more pve material. It should be something like 1 dlc per year pvp centric the rest casual pve centric. ZoS needs to cater to the base.

    Edit: I'll also say I feel that the last 2 updates were fantastic if you remove the RNG BoP nonsense and we'd have perfection :D

    Oh yeah, probably thats what SOE and Daybreak thought about DCUO. And they "catered" to that so called base of yours, until there's barely even player base left.
  • HairyFairy
    HairyFairy
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    Whether the game is dying or thriving is honestly in the eyes of the beholder when it comes to opinion. Certain segments of the playerbase care more about certain parts of the game than others, so each and every change they make will only influence that portion of the playerbase and the rest won't care.

    As for me? No I do not believe this game is dieing. I know when an MMO is dieing and this one isn't. Not yet...

    This is true. Also, until you have any solid evidence, or..any real argument at all for that matter, that this game is dying, please keep your opinions about it to yourself.

    Sincerely,
    Everyone.
    Edited by HairyFairy on November 30, 2015 11:23PM
    Hello darkness my old friend

    HairyFairy- MagNB
    Scary-Fairy- MagDK
    HairyFairy's Kitty- StamNB
    Your a Lizard Hairy- MagSorc
    Jarl HairyFairy- StamDK
    Lord HairyFairy- MagPlar
    Craazy Fairy- StamSorc
  • Sharee
    Sharee
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    edorfeus wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    edorfeus wrote: »
    Do you even read what your community posts on this forum? Don't you see the huge pile of complaints? Fix this, fix that, buff this...

    Show me an official MMO forum without a huge pile of complaints.

    Forums are the complaint department of MMO's. Most players who are unhappy come to post there. Most players who are happy just play the game and ignore the forums.

    Yeah, you know, that's the reason I've actually registered on this forum just a couple months ago. I didn't need it before. It was kind of all right. But the state of the game made me register here and try to find out what are the reasons the game I liked so much became such as it is now.

    Don't assume that just because you do not like the way the game is changing, nobody does. Take the latest news about siege for example. Some people claim it will ruin PvP. Some believe it is the best thing ever.

    That does not mean the game is perfect, i have many complaints myself, but to come here and preach doom and gloom, issuing 'warnings'? Bah.
  • Jura23
    Jura23
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    nimander99 wrote: »
    Also, swtor was never a good game. It was Star Warscraft

    I think swtor had actually better solo PvE content than ESO. At least I enjoed that part of the game more over there. I don't know how it is now.
    Georgion - Bosmer/Templar - PC/EU
  • Merry
    Merry
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    SWTOR was the biggest disappointment for me. Such an absolutely terrific game taken down by bad developer choices. Sad....
    M
  • edorfeus
    edorfeus
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    HairyFairy wrote: »
    Whether the game is dying or thriving is honestly in the eyes of the beholder when it comes to opinion. Certain segments of the playerbase care more about certain parts of the game than others, so each and every change they make will only influence that portion of the playerbase and the rest won't care.

    As for me? No I do not believe this game is dieing. I know when an MMO is dieing and this one isn't. Not yet...

    This is true. Also, until you have any solid evidence, or..any real argument at all for that matter, that this game is dying, please keep your opinions about it to yourself.

    Sincerely,
    Everyone.

    LOL!
    Again, I'm not saying it's dying already, learn to read dammit!
    But speaking for everyone... That's funny. And ridiculous.
  • HairyFairy
    HairyFairy
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    edorfeus wrote: »
    HairyFairy wrote: »
    Whether the game is dying or thriving is honestly in the eyes of the beholder when it comes to opinion. Certain segments of the playerbase care more about certain parts of the game than others, so each and every change they make will only influence that portion of the playerbase and the rest won't care.

    As for me? No I do not believe this game is dieing. I know when an MMO is dieing and this one isn't. Not yet...

    This is true. Also, until you have any solid evidence, or..any real argument at all for that matter, that this game is dying, please keep your opinions about it to yourself.

    Sincerely,
    Everyone.

    LOL!
    Again, I'm not saying it's dying already, learn to read dammit!
    But speaking for everyone... That's funny. And ridiculous.

    No, it's really not ridiculous considering no one is with you on this.

    You are alone.
    Hello darkness my old friend

    HairyFairy- MagNB
    Scary-Fairy- MagDK
    HairyFairy's Kitty- StamNB
    Your a Lizard Hairy- MagSorc
    Jarl HairyFairy- StamDK
    Lord HairyFairy- MagPlar
    Craazy Fairy- StamSorc
  • Justice31st
    Justice31st
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    Sharee wrote: »
    edorfeus wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    edorfeus wrote: »
    Do you even read what your community posts on this forum? Don't you see the huge pile of complaints? Fix this, fix that, buff this...

    Show me an official MMO forum without a huge pile of complaints.

    Forums are the complaint department of MMO's. Most players who are unhappy come to post there. Most players who are happy just play the game and ignore the forums.

    Yeah, you know, that's the reason I've actually registered on this forum just a couple months ago. I didn't need it before. It was kind of all right. But the state of the game made me register here and try to find out what are the reasons the game I liked so much became such as it is now.

    Don't assume that just because you do not like the way the game is changing, nobody does. Take the latest news about siege for example. Some people claim it will ruin PvP. Some believe it is the best thing ever.

    That does not mean the game is perfect, i have many complaints myself, but to come here and preach doom and gloom, issuing 'warnings'? Bah.

    ^This. Many people are looking forward to the player housing and buying furniture and other decorative materials off the crown store.
    "The more you know who you are, and what you want, the less you let things upset you."
  • nimander99
    nimander99
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    edorfeus wrote: »
    nimander99 wrote: »
    Im willing to bet the vast majority of player are long time fans of the Scrolls series and we would love to see more and more pve material. It should be something like 1 dlc per year pvp centric the rest casual pve centric. ZoS needs to cater to the base.

    Edit: I'll also say I feel that the last 2 updates were fantastic if you remove the RNG BoP nonsense and we'd have perfection :D

    Oh yeah, probably thats what SOE and Daybreak thought about DCUO. And they "catered" to that so called base of yours, until there's barely even player base left.

    If I didn't love this game so much I'd almost wish ZoS would just dump nothing but pvp content and laugh when this game crumbles in a year.

    PVP will ALWAYS be a secondary element of gameplay in an mmorpg... especially an Elder Scrolls one.

    Edit: Also DCUO sucks, so comparing ESO to it is kinda like comparing onions and garlic.
    Edited by nimander99 on November 30, 2015 11:31PM
    I AM UPDATING MY PRIVACY POLICY

    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

    ∽∽∽ 2 years of Elder Scrolls Online ∼∼∼
    "Give us money" = Box sales & monthly sub fees,
    "moar!" = £10 palomino horse,
    "MOAR!" = Switch to B2P, launch cash shop,
    "MOAR!!" = Charge for DLC that subs had already paid for,
    "MOAR!!!" = Experience scrolls and riding lessons,
    "MOARR!!!" = Vampire/werewolf bites,
    "MOAARRR!!!" = CS exclusive motifs,
    "MOOAARRR!!!" = Crown crates,
    "MOOOAAARRR!!!" = 'Chapter's' bought separately from ESO+,
    "MOOOOAAAARRRR!!!!" = ???

    Male, Dunmer, VR16, Templar, Aldmeri Dominion, Master Crafter & all Traits, CP450
  • edorfeus
    edorfeus
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    Sharee wrote: »
    edorfeus wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    edorfeus wrote: »
    Do you even read what your community posts on this forum? Don't you see the huge pile of complaints? Fix this, fix that, buff this...

    Show me an official MMO forum without a huge pile of complaints.

    Forums are the complaint department of MMO's. Most players who are unhappy come to post there. Most players who are happy just play the game and ignore the forums.

    Yeah, you know, that's the reason I've actually registered on this forum just a couple months ago. I didn't need it before. It was kind of all right. But the state of the game made me register here and try to find out what are the reasons the game I liked so much became such as it is now.

    Don't assume that just because you do not like the way the game is changing, nobody does. Take the latest news about siege for example. Some people claim it will ruin PvP. Some believe it is the best thing ever.

    That does not mean the game is perfect, i have many complaints myself, but to come here and preach doom and gloom, issuing 'warnings'? Bah.

    You know, I surely don't say that everybody's unhappy with the changes. And it's because there are people who are ready to eat every crap they throw a you just because the game looks good, or the game is in the specific setting (be it star wars or elder scrolls or whatever). That's the same as people who watch TV and believe everything they show there.
    That's the difference. There are always obedient dummies who won't complain about anything and those who question the things that happen. And the first group is what makes companies produce crap and feed it to those guys, because "Why try? They'll eat it anyway"
  • TheBull
    TheBull
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    Arena or bust.
  • edorfeus
    edorfeus
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    nimander99 wrote: »
    edorfeus wrote: »
    nimander99 wrote: »
    Im willing to bet the vast majority of player are long time fans of the Scrolls series and we would love to see more and more pve material. It should be something like 1 dlc per year pvp centric the rest casual pve centric. ZoS needs to cater to the base.

    Edit: I'll also say I feel that the last 2 updates were fantastic if you remove the RNG BoP nonsense and we'd have perfection :D

    Oh yeah, probably thats what SOE and Daybreak thought about DCUO. And they "catered" to that so called base of yours, until there's barely even player base left.

    If I didn't love this game so much I'd almost wish ZoS would just dump nothing but pvp content and laugh when this game crumbles in a year.

    PVP will ALWAYS be a secondary element of gameplay in an mmorpg... especially an Elder Scrolls one.

    Edit: Also DCUO sucks, so comparing ESO to it is kinda like comparing onions and garlic.

    Well, yeah, DCUO sucks NOW. But it was a good game, and many people liked it, and many people played it. And you know, the last symptom of the gamekilling plague is the housing. Really.
    Dcuo was going down to crap already, but then they added housing, and since then it was getting worse and worse. Swtor - the same thing. Housing added, then BOOM, the game sucks.
    The housing is the last desperate measure to attract simpleminded who didn't get enough SIMS in their gaming life.
    Edited by edorfeus on November 30, 2015 11:34PM
  • Justice31st
    Justice31st
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    edorfeus wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    edorfeus wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    edorfeus wrote: »
    Do you even read what your community posts on this forum? Don't you see the huge pile of complaints? Fix this, fix that, buff this...

    Show me an official MMO forum without a huge pile of complaints.

    Forums are the complaint department of MMO's. Most players who are unhappy come to post there. Most players who are happy just play the game and ignore the forums.

    Yeah, you know, that's the reason I've actually registered on this forum just a couple months ago. I didn't need it before. It was kind of all right. But the state of the game made me register here and try to find out what are the reasons the game I liked so much became such as it is now.

    Don't assume that just because you do not like the way the game is changing, nobody does. Take the latest news about siege for example. Some people claim it will ruin PvP. Some believe it is the best thing ever.

    That does not mean the game is perfect, i have many complaints myself, but to come here and preach doom and gloom, issuing 'warnings'? Bah.

    You know, I surely don't say that everybody's unhappy with the changes. And it's because there are people who are ready to eat every crap they throw a you just because the game looks good, or the game is in the specific setting (be it star wars or elder scrolls or whatever). That's the same as people who watch TV and believe everything they show there.
    That's the difference. There are always obedient dummies who won't complain about anything and those who question the things that happen. And the first group is what makes companies produce crap and feed it to those guys, because "Why try? They'll eat it anyway"

    One persons crap, is another persons good sht.
    "The more you know who you are, and what you want, the less you let things upset you."
  • nimander99
    nimander99
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    ✭✭
    edorfeus wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    edorfeus wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    edorfeus wrote: »
    Do you even read what your community posts on this forum? Don't you see the huge pile of complaints? Fix this, fix that, buff this...

    Show me an official MMO forum without a huge pile of complaints.

    Forums are the complaint department of MMO's. Most players who are unhappy come to post there. Most players who are happy just play the game and ignore the forums.

    Yeah, you know, that's the reason I've actually registered on this forum just a couple months ago. I didn't need it before. It was kind of all right. But the state of the game made me register here and try to find out what are the reasons the game I liked so much became such as it is now.

    Don't assume that just because you do not like the way the game is changing, nobody does. Take the latest news about siege for example. Some people claim it will ruin PvP. Some believe it is the best thing ever.

    That does not mean the game is perfect, i have many complaints myself, but to come here and preach doom and gloom, issuing 'warnings'? Bah.

    You know, I surely don't say that everybody's unhappy with the changes. And it's because there are people who are ready to eat every crap they throw a you just because the game looks good, or the game is in the specific setting (be it star wars or elder scrolls or whatever). That's the same as people who watch TV and believe everything they show there.
    That's the difference. There are always obedient dummies who won't complain about anything and those who question the things that happen. And the first group is what makes companies produce crap and feed it to those guys, because "Why try? They'll eat it anyway"

    That's a fair enough argument and true to boot.

    But, the community has proven time and again that we expect an Elder Scrolls experience, which is what the Dev's have continued to work towards since launch. I'm willing to see where the ride takes us because if you remove just a couple frustration points in game then it'd be perfect imo. (here's lookin at you RNG)
    Edited by nimander99 on November 30, 2015 11:35PM
    I AM UPDATING MY PRIVACY POLICY

    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

    ∽∽∽ 2 years of Elder Scrolls Online ∼∼∼
    "Give us money" = Box sales & monthly sub fees,
    "moar!" = £10 palomino horse,
    "MOAR!" = Switch to B2P, launch cash shop,
    "MOAR!!" = Charge for DLC that subs had already paid for,
    "MOAR!!!" = Experience scrolls and riding lessons,
    "MOARR!!!" = Vampire/werewolf bites,
    "MOAARRR!!!" = CS exclusive motifs,
    "MOOAARRR!!!" = Crown crates,
    "MOOOAAARRR!!!" = 'Chapter's' bought separately from ESO+,
    "MOOOOAAAARRRR!!!!" = ???

    Male, Dunmer, VR16, Templar, Aldmeri Dominion, Master Crafter & all Traits, CP450
  • HairyFairy
    HairyFairy
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    edorfeus wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    edorfeus wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    edorfeus wrote: »
    Do you even read what your community posts on this forum? Don't you see the huge pile of complaints? Fix this, fix that, buff this...

    Show me an official MMO forum without a huge pile of complaints.

    Forums are the complaint department of MMO's. Most players who are unhappy come to post there. Most players who are happy just play the game and ignore the forums.

    Yeah, you know, that's the reason I've actually registered on this forum just a couple months ago. I didn't need it before. It was kind of all right. But the state of the game made me register here and try to find out what are the reasons the game I liked so much became such as it is now.

    Don't assume that just because you do not like the way the game is changing, nobody does. Take the latest news about siege for example. Some people claim it will ruin PvP. Some believe it is the best thing ever.

    That does not mean the game is perfect, i have many complaints myself, but to come here and preach doom and gloom, issuing 'warnings'? Bah.

    You know, I surely don't say that everybody's unhappy with the changes. And it's because there are people who are ready to eat every crap they throw a you just because the game looks good, or the game is in the specific setting (be it star wars or elder scrolls or whatever). That's the same as people who watch TV and believe everything they show there.
    That's the difference. There are always obedient dummies who won't complain about anything and those who question the things that happen. And the first group is what makes companies produce crap and feed it to those guys, because "Why try? They'll eat it anyway"

    See here you're also wrong. The people who complain will eventually leave the game, these people they're not worried about because you really cannot satisfy everyone.

    The people who "eat their crap" as you put it, are staying not because we eat crap, but because we like what they have to offer us.

    This is the group of players, which is the majority I assume, that they're going to want to please and when you please the majority instead of the minority of crybabies, you will gain more customers. Good customers.
    Hello darkness my old friend

    HairyFairy- MagNB
    Scary-Fairy- MagDK
    HairyFairy's Kitty- StamNB
    Your a Lizard Hairy- MagSorc
    Jarl HairyFairy- StamDK
    Lord HairyFairy- MagPlar
    Craazy Fairy- StamSorc
  • edorfeus
    edorfeus
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    nimander99 wrote: »
    I read an interesting statistic among paying customers in f2p games a while back and I wish I wasn't so lazy cause id search it out and plug the link, but the gist of it was PVP centric players tend to spend the least amount of money in mmo's whereas PVE centric players dump veritable cheddar on fluff.

    Well, I don't know about the statistic you've read, but I can say that many PVP players dump as much (if not more) money into games. The cosmetic stuff, crafting stuff and so on.
    I, myself, dropped enough money into this game too. I was a subscriber when it was necessary, and I couldn't complain about it, because what is 10 bucks a month for a great leisure?
    You underestimate the PVP community (not talking about some 13 year old schoolkids).
    Edited by edorfeus on November 30, 2015 11:46PM
  • temjiu
    temjiu
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    edorfeus wrote: »
    Jura23 wrote: »
    Any examples of good young MMOs? I'm interested in those more than examples of bad MMOs.

    ESO was good for some time since launch. Yes, it had bugs, glitches, but they did some right decisions along the way for almost a year. And when the game hit year 2, it has been deteriorating to this very day.

    Funny you say that. I remember a mass exodus of players shorty after the release of the game. So much so that Zenimin scrambled to change the end game to try and keep people.

    i also remember a group of dev's that stated, "We feel that we have a quality MMO that is worth a subscription. We do not have any plans in the immediate future to go f2p".

    and look how that ended up.

    You may have enjoyed the game design for the last few years. the rest of the market seemed to disagree with you. One of the big reasons they are changing end game so much was that negative response. Hopefully they're making the right decisions. We'll see.

    To the OP,

    I can't speak for DCUO, but Based purely on the success of other MMO's that are adding tons of PvE content, Adding More PvE is not the issue. I doubt that DCUO's issue was PvE content. It was more then likely bad design and implementation overall. It's rarely a singular element that kills a game. It's foundational design mechanics that do it. Like ESO did to itself on release.

    Neverwinter actually made endgame PvE content worse. they made the trip from 60-70 so nightmarishly long amd boring that many people stopped leveling at 60. And they're most recent addition was a horrible failure in Star Trek...yet they migrated it over to neverwinter where its causing no end to issues. They actually did what ESO had done on release...make endgame a horribly long and difficult grind that was night and day different then the first 50 levels (60 in NWO). and the have a completely broken economy that they themselves made, then gutted the players ability to make any of the currency needed to progress in game. I could go on...but I played NWO for very long periods of time from release up until now. Adding PvE content in general wasn't their issue. they just suck at making a decent MMO.

    SWtOR i can't say at the moment...I loved it from release up to 6 months or so ago, where I just got bored. very little to do with the gameplay (I'm starting it back up again though with this most recent release. The story based expansion sounds cool). but it had no issues during its tenure either, and it never suffered by adding more PvE content. Quite the opposite..populations went up when it added PvE.

    No offense, but your examples are highly opinionated and conjecture at best. You really just sound like a PvP player who wants to gripe and is trying to use personal judgements from other games as fuel for your argument. Which doesn't hold water for people that actually played those other games.

    On another note...I find it really interesting that many of the people threatening to leave, are the same people that stuck around duriing the early exodus of the game. Given all the changes going on, I could see why people who liked the early model would be frustrated. while I certainly respect the opinion...I have to say that the market disagrees.
    Edited by temjiu on November 30, 2015 11:49PM
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