nimander99 wrote: »I read an interesting statistic among paying customers in f2p games a while back and I wish I wasn't so lazy cause id search it out and plug the link, but the gist of it was PVP centric players tend to spend the least amount of money in mmo's whereas PVE centric players dump veritable cheddar on fluff.
Well, I don't know about the statistic you've read, but I can say that many PVP players dump as much (if not more) money into games. The cosmetic stuff, crafting stuff and so on.
I, myself, dropped enough money into this game too. I was a subscriber when it was necessary, and I couldn't complain about it, because what is 10 bucks a month for a great leisure?
You underestimate the PVP community (not talking about some 13 year old schoolkids).
Any examples of good young MMOs? I'm interested in those more than examples of bad MMOs.
ESO was good for some time since launch. Yes, it had bugs, glitches, but they did some right decisions along the way for almost a year. And when the game hit year 2, it has been deteriorating to this very day.
Funny you say that. I remember a mass exodus of players shorty after the release of the game. So much so that Zenimin scrambled to change the end game to try and keep people.
i also remember a group of dev's that stated, "We feel that we have a quality MMO that is worth a subscription. We do not have any plans in the immediate future to go f2p".
and look how that ended up.
You may have enjoyed the game design for the last few years. the rest of the market seemed to disagree with you. One of the big reasons they are changing end game so much was that negative response. Hopefully they're making the right decisions. We'll see.
To the OP,
I can't speak for DCUO, but Based purely on the success of other MMO's that are adding tons of PvE content, Adding More PvE is not the issue. I doubt that DCUO's issue was PvE content. It was more then likely bad design and implementation overall. It's rarely a singular element that kills a game. It's foundational design mechanics that do it. Like ESO did to itself on release.
Neverwinter actually made endgame PvE content worse. they made the trip from 60-70 so nightmarishly long amd boring that many people stopped leveling at 60. And they're most recent addition was a horrible failure in Star Trek...yet they migrated it over to neverwinter where its causing no end to issues. They actually did what ESO had done on release...make endgame a horribly long and difficult grind that was night and day different then the first 50 levels (60 in NWO). and the have a completely broken economy that they themselves made, then gutted the players ability to make any of the currency needed to progress in game. I could go on...but I played NWO for very long periods of time from release up until now. Adding PvE content in general wasn't their issue. they just suck at making a decent MMO.
SWtOR i can't say at the moment...I loved it from release up to 6 months or so ago, where I just got bored. very little to do with the gameplay (I'm starting it back up again though with this most recent release. The story based expansion sounds cool). but it had no issues during its tenure either, and it never suffered by adding more PvE content. Quite the opposite..populations went up when it added PvE.
No offense, but your examples are highly opinionated and conjecture at best. You really just sound like a PvP player who wants to gripe and is trying to use personal judgements from other games as fuel for your argument. Which doesn't hold water for people that actually played those other games.
On another note...I find it really interesting that many of the people threatening to leave, are the same people that stuck around duriing the early exodus of the game. Given all the changes going on, I could see why people who liked the early model would be frustrated. while I certainly respect the opinion...I have to say that the market disagrees.
There still may be enough players in this game to keep financing your and to keep this game running, but I will give you a nice example of a similar game that is dying and is pretty much dead already.
The DCUO (DC unverse online)
They did all the things you're doing now. They kept ruining the game (PVP most of all) with each update, and just adding more and more PVE content, and some crap to they're in game store for people to buy for money (cosmetic, utility and so on). And with each update there were fewer and fewer players left. And now you see the same people on the server in DCUO. You see the same people in the pvp arena and the group finder for raids.
Do you even read what your community posts on this forum? Don't you see the huge pile of complaints? Fix this, fix that, buff this... But all you do is throwing more and more PVE stuff and crown store BS.
I truly love this game since launch, but with each month I feel that it brings more frustration and headache than joy. You keep buffing what doesn't need buffing and nerfing what doesn't need nerfing.
It's the same case as Star Wars The Old Republic. The whole design and concept was provided by bioware, but the actual gameplay mechanics and balancing things and so on is managed by EA, which made this game a piece of crap eventually, and it's also dying now.
You, Zenimax, are ruining the Bethesda's Elder Scrolls setting and design with your poor management.
Please stop!
The majority of gammers are addicts, seeking for the next fix. When the present stimuli dwindles, they petition for more, rebuke the quality, or seek elsewhere. This is an example.
I have chosen elder scrolls as my alternate universe stimuli of choice. I will make a suggestion of adjustment if desired, yet I am thankful for this creations existence regardless.
I know more changes will occur and more elder scroll games will exist. It's highly likely. Knowing this reminds me to enjoy what is. If I truly dislike the alternate universe attributes, I'll simply return my attention to my primary reality.
These worlds' are a bonus to our default. When we allow an intended pleasurable addition to our lives be a source of fear and sadness, we've gone off track.
I am truly thankful and appreciative of this Tamriel chapter. Like Morrowind, Cyrodiil(Oblivian), and Skyrim before it, I've been blessed with the opportunity to experience an alternate reality with multiple attributes I like. Those that relate will remain and fortify this alternate universe. Those that do not, will not. Less fear, sadness(anger), more courage pleasure(happiness).
To the creators and supporters of this Tamriel edition:
Give Thanks
khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »There still may be enough players in this game to keep financing your and to keep this game running, but I will give you a nice example of a similar game that is dying and is pretty much dead already.
The DCUO (DC unverse online)
They did all the things you're doing now. They kept ruining the game (PVP most of all) with each update, and just adding more and more PVE content, and some crap to they're in game store for people to buy for money (cosmetic, utility and so on). And with each update there were fewer and fewer players left. And now you see the same people on the server in DCUO. You see the same people in the pvp arena and the group finder for raids.
Do you even read what your community posts on this forum? Don't you see the huge pile of complaints? Fix this, fix that, buff this... But all you do is throwing more and more PVE stuff and crown store BS.
I truly love this game since launch, but with each month I feel that it brings more frustration and headache than joy. You keep buffing what doesn't need buffing and nerfing what doesn't need nerfing.
It's the same case as Star Wars The Old Republic. The whole design and concept was provided by bioware, but the actual gameplay mechanics and balancing things and so on is managed by EA, which made this game a piece of crap eventually, and it's also dying now.
You, Zenimax, are ruining the Bethesda's Elder Scrolls setting and design with your poor management.
Please stop!
You dont give any specifics. Also... for every 'nerf this' theres a similar thread saying 'no, buff it' or 'no, nerf that instead'. And if they nerf the thing that was asked in the first place, theres a backlash from pissed off people. You cant really follow forum demands as theyre from people concerned with their personal best interest and even then often clueless as to the results their requests would bring.
UltimaJoe777 wrote: »Whether the game is dying or thriving is honestly in the eyes of the beholder when it comes to opinion. Certain segments of the playerbase care more about certain parts of the game than others, so each and every change they make will only influence that portion of the playerbase and the rest won't care.
As for me? No I do not believe this game is dieing. I know when an MMO is dieing and this one isn't. Not yet...
That's what I'm talking about. I didn't say ESO is already dying, no. As I have mentioned the playerbase is still good enough, but the symptoms of the plague can already be seen, and no one seems to care about curing that plague. And you know what happens if you don't cure the plague? Yes, you die. That's what going to happen to this game if they continue to do what they do.
nimander99 wrote: »Im willing to bet the vast majority of player are long time fans of the Scrolls series and we would love to see more and more pve material. It should be something like 1 dlc per year pvp centric the rest casual pve centric. ZoS needs to cater to the base.
Edit: I'll also say I feel that the last 2 updates were fantastic if you remove the RNG BoP nonsense and we'd have perfection
nimander99 wrote: »nimander99 wrote: »Im willing to bet the vast majority of player are long time fans of the Scrolls series and we would love to see more and more pve material. It should be something like 1 dlc per year pvp centric the rest casual pve centric. ZoS needs to cater to the base.
Edit: I'll also say I feel that the last 2 updates were fantastic if you remove the RNG BoP nonsense and we'd have perfection
Oh yeah, probably thats what SOE and Daybreak thought about DCUO. And they "catered" to that so called base of yours, until there's barely even player base left.
If I didn't love this game so much I'd almost wish ZoS would just dump nothing but pvp content and laugh when this game crumbles in a year.
PVP will ALWAYS be a secondary element of gameplay in an mmorpg... especially an Elder Scrolls one.
Edit: Also DCUO sucks, so comparing ESO to it is kinda like comparing onions and garlic.
nimander99 wrote: »Im willing to bet the vast majority of player are long time fans of the Scrolls series and we would love to see more and more pve material. It should be something like 1 dlc per year pvp centric the rest casual pve centric. ZoS needs to cater to the base.
Edit: I'll also say I feel that the last 2 updates were fantastic if you remove the RNG BoP nonsense and we'd have perfection
Catering solely to the TES fan base would be very dangerous. Many (most?) players that are only here because of That will leave when Beth drops the next TES title. Pvpers are more likely to stick it out long term because a) the bonds formed with allies and enemies alike; and b) the limited (quality) alternatives.
Do you even read what your community posts on this forum? Don't you see the huge pile of complaints? Fix this, fix that, buff this...
Show me an official MMO forum without a huge pile of complaints.
Forums are the complaint department of MMO's. Most players who are unhappy come to post there. Most players who are happy just play the game and ignore the forums.
nimander99 wrote: »Im willing to bet the vast majority of player are long time fans of the Scrolls series and we would love to see more and more pve material. It should be something like 1 dlc per year pvp centric the rest casual pve centric. ZoS needs to cater to the base.
Edit: I'll also say I feel that the last 2 updates were fantastic if you remove the RNG BoP nonsense and we'd have perfection
Catering solely to the TES fan base would be very dangerous. Many (most?) players that are only here because of That will leave when Beth drops the next TES title. Pvpers are more likely to stick it out long term because a) the bonds formed with allies and enemies alike; and b) the limited (quality) alternatives.
usmcjdking wrote: »nimander99 wrote: »Im willing to bet the vast majority of player are long time fans of the Scrolls series and we would love to see more and more pve material. It should be something like 1 dlc per year pvp centric the rest casual pve centric. ZoS needs to cater to the base.
Edit: I'll also say I feel that the last 2 updates were fantastic if you remove the RNG BoP nonsense and we'd have perfection
Catering solely to the TES fan base would be very dangerous. Many (most?) players that are only here because of That will leave when Beth drops the next TES title. Pvpers are more likely to stick it out long term because a) the bonds formed with allies and enemies alike; and b) the limited (quality) alternatives.
Only for a few years.
Then Mom & Dad must have a discussion with PVPers about getting a job.
There still may be enough players in this game to keep financing your and to keep this game running, but I will give you a nice example of a similar game that is dying and is pretty much dead already.
The DCUO (DC unverse online)
They did all the things you're doing now. They kept ruining the game (PVP most of all) with each update, and just adding more and more PVE content, and some crap to they're in game store for people to buy for money (cosmetic, utility and so on). And with each update there were fewer and fewer players left. And now you see the same people on the server in DCUO. You see the same people in the pvp arena and the group finder for raids.
Do you even read what your community posts on this forum? Don't you see the huge pile of complaints? Fix this, fix that, buff this... But all you do is throwing more and more PVE stuff and crown store BS.
I truly love this game since launch, but with each month I feel that it brings more frustration and headache than joy. You keep buffing what doesn't need buffing and nerfing what doesn't need nerfing.
It's the same case as Star Wars The Old Republic. The whole design and concept was provided by bioware, but the actual gameplay mechanics and balancing things and so on is managed by EA, which made this game a piece of crap eventually, and it's also dying now.
You, Zenimax, are ruining the Bethesda's Elder Scrolls setting and design with your poor management.
Please stop!
Any examples of good young MMOs? I'm interested in those more than examples of bad MMOs.
ESO was good for some time since launch. Yes, it had bugs, glitches, but they did some right decisions along the way for almost a year. And when the game hit year 2, it has been deteriorating to this very day.
Funny you say that. I remember a mass exodus of players shorty after the release of the game. So much so that Zenimin scrambled to change the end game to try and keep people.