Nord Templar - Should i reroll?

Minno

JackDaniell wrote: »

A Stam Templar strength pvp wise is honestly in purifying ritual. You just can't hold a Stam temp down that can spam it's purify. So Templar may not be the fastest, but at least it's the hardest to slow down.

As for a nord Templar with reactive and empowering sweep you don't need undeath, but it can be good to. It's like a double edged sword, you will be just that much more tanky but you will have more weaknesses ect. From my experience on a nord Templar I really like undead and really notice the difference when I'm playing a vamp vs non vamp. Getting one shot sucks I know, but it's not that terrible and doesn't seam to happen to me that often. Mostly off my horse ;P

The legend himself arrives lol

zornyan

Minno wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-GB/discussion/233829/radiant-destruction-nerf/p2

This has a huge list if templar issues, serious class breaking stuff.

Short of it. Don't use jabs as anyone using a shield will laugh at you.

Don't use toppling charge as you get stuck and unable to do anythong, you have to die, drink a potion or pray that it may work.

Don't use radiant destruction, as it's block able, dodge roll able, and it's damage has been nerfed

Don't use dark flare as it actually has an initial cast time of 2 seconds due to being bugged.

Don't use eclipse as well do I need to explain this one?

Don't use purifying light due to health desync

Don't use Blazing Shield due to the LOL of how crap it is.

Don't use Blazing spear cause that's just been double nerfed.



Oh and don't rely on burning light as the proc rate is massively off atm too.

Jabs- by itself won't kill. You need to add CC to your rotation. Shields are only as strong if the person can recast them.

Toppling charges has a bug but potions remove it. It's main issue is that it won't go unless your target is on level ground.

RD - your doing executes wrong if you are hitting this skill above 15℅.

DF - great openner. Can't spam it because players will interior you or dodge roll.

Eclipse- very good against range magicka. . Dmg still applies even if cc immunity in effect.

Puryfing light - need to look if it desyncs your health. First time hearing this was an issue.

BS - use Radiant ward instead. Adds shield with enemies around, cheap cast, instant dmg its cast procs burning light.

Blaze spear - use the morph that disorients. Stam/health regen more important in group play.

You missed all the points

Blazing spear is the morph that stuns (one person sometimes) and it's been nerfed twice recently so it's now useless

Jabs won't kill anyone using shields, you've missed the point AGAIN it doesn't apply 140% damage to shields. So that 8k biting jabs? Just got nerfed down to 2.5k against a shield user.

Toppling charge bug doesn't always go away with potion use, it also means you HAVE to use a potion before you've even used mag/stam , what if I want to use a pot?

RD has been nerfed, it deals significantly less damage, and it's dodge roll able, it also gets stuck in the animation sometimes.

Df can be a great opener, if you're not against a dk, or anyone using sword and board, as it will just be reflected back.

Eclipse, good? You're sitting me, also the damage does not apply when CC immune, it does nothing.

Purifying light, it's well documented it causes health desyncs, there are many many threads documenting this.

You do realize how pathetic radiant ward is right? As in for your average pvp mag/stam build of 22-23khp it's like a 3k shield, that's barely a light attack and a waste of a GCD, so you could spam that, but any enemy weaving light attacks will demolish your health and be doing far more damage.

To me it sounds as if you never really play pvp or templars, you are unaware of various game breaking very obvious bugs.

Torbschka

JackDaniell wrote: »

A Stam Templar strength pvp wise is honestly in purifying ritual. You just can't hold a Stam temp down that can spam it's purify. So Templar may not be the fastest, but at least it's the hardest to slow down.

As for a nord Templar with reactive and empowering sweep you don't need undeath, but it can be good to. It's like a double edged sword, you will be just that much more tanky but you will have more weaknesses ect. From my experience on a nord Templar I really like undead and really notice the difference when I'm playing a vamp vs non vamp. Getting one shot sucks I know, but it's not that terrible and doesn't seam to happen to me that often. Mostly off my horse ;P

thanks for the asnwer @JackDaniell , at least some1 who speaks about the topic lol (nevertheless, thanks for all here to post their stuff, its very informative!)
Do u think the "Berserker" build is still working, because I really have trouble to survive vs 2-3 people (at least if they are all glass cannons) even if im CC'ed?

will you make a new build video soon, cause in your recent videos you use a different setup?

Alucardo

I know a few Nord Templars, and personally it sounds like a legit build to me. They tank like mo'fos in dungeons with Nords passives and the right sets.

Torbschka

Alucardo wrote: »

I know a few Nord Templars, and personally it sounds like a legit build to me. They tank like mo'fos in dungeons with Nords passives and the right sets.

thanks for the answer, but how do they do in pvp? cause I'm mainly pvp focused ^^

Alucardo

Torbschka wrote: »

thanks for the answer, but how do they do in pvp? cause I'm mainly pvp focused ^^

Oh, they usually log their Imperials for PVP.. but that doesn't mean it can't work!

Minno

zornyan wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-GB/discussion/233829/radiant-destruction-nerf/p2

This has a huge list if templar issues, serious class breaking stuff.

Short of it. Don't use jabs as anyone using a shield will laugh at you.

Don't use toppling charge as you get stuck and unable to do anythong, you have to die, drink a potion or pray that it may work.

Don't use radiant destruction, as it's block able, dodge roll able, and it's damage has been nerfed

Don't use dark flare as it actually has an initial cast time of 2 seconds due to being bugged.

Don't use eclipse as well do I need to explain this one?

Don't use purifying light due to health desync

Don't use Blazing Shield due to the LOL of how crap it is.

Don't use Blazing spear cause that's just been double nerfed.



Oh and don't rely on burning light as the proc rate is massively off atm too.

I was going to respond in detail, but I think we derailed OP's thread long enough.

But your last comment is insulting, not constructive, and demeaning. A definite violation of ZOS terms of service; show a little respect and lets keep the thread going.

Minno

Alucardo wrote: »

Torbschka wrote: »

thanks for the answer, but how do they do in pvp? cause I'm mainly pvp focused ^^

Oh, they usually log their Imperials for PVP.. but that doesn't mean it can't work!

Most classes can work
It depends how you gear set up the build.

Minno

Torbschka wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

I know a few Nord Templars, and personally it sounds like a legit build to me. They tank like mo'fos in dungeons with Nords passives and the right sets.

thanks for the answer, but how do they do in pvp? cause I'm mainly pvp focused ^^

I think we highlighted the weakness of nords earlier; no magicka sustain, no dps enhancing, cold resistance passive semi useless since no one uses ice destro staff (although ice comet is used alot.)

Overall I think it would make a great tanky pvp build. Jack mentioned a few sets that could work, and I would test them out!

Use vr15 mats for testing. Then when you find the sets you need, craft vr16 legendary.

Anything else you need?

blur

Minno wrote: »

Torbschka wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

I know a few Nord Templars, and personally it sounds like a legit build to me. They tank like mo'fos in dungeons with Nords passives and the right sets.

thanks for the answer, but how do they do in pvp? cause I'm mainly pvp focused ^^

I think we highlighted the weakness of nords earlier; no magicka sustain, no dps enhancing, cold resistance passive semi useless since no one uses ice destro staff (although ice comet is used alot.)

Overall I think it would make a great tanky pvp build. Jack mentioned a few sets that could work, and I would test them out!

Use vr15 mats for testing. Then when you find the sets you need, craft vr16 legendary.

Anything else you need?

Or go on PTS and do it.
I will be race changing to Nord or Argonian when they allow us to race change. I think both of those races are absolutely amazing for the playstyle Stamina Temps use. Not to mention certain skill synergies and gear synergies other races can't capitalize on.

Minno

blur wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Torbschka wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

I know a few Nord Templars, and personally it sounds like a legit build to me. They tank like mo'fos in dungeons with Nords passives and the right sets.

thanks for the answer, but how do they do in pvp? cause I'm mainly pvp focused ^^

I think we highlighted the weakness of nords earlier; no magicka sustain, no dps enhancing, cold resistance passive semi useless since no one uses ice destro staff (although ice comet is used alot.)

Overall I think it would make a great tanky pvp build. Jack mentioned a few sets that could work, and I would test them out!

Use vr15 mats for testing. Then when you find the sets you need, craft vr16 legendary.

Anything else you need?

Or go on PTS and do it.
I will be race changing to Nord or Argonian when they allow us to race change. I think both of those races are absolutely amazing for the playstyle Stamina Temps use. Not to mention certain skill synergies and gear synergies other races can't capitalize on.

Oh yea the pts lol.
Only issue I have with pts is:

1) all yellow items (including rings)
2) craft gear not all available
3) for pvp, not many players to test randomly.

Question: why argonian? Just a curious and honest question.

blur

Minno wrote: »

blur wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Torbschka wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

I know a few Nord Templars, and personally it sounds like a legit build to me. They tank like mo'fos in dungeons with Nords passives and the right sets.

thanks for the answer, but how do they do in pvp? cause I'm mainly pvp focused ^^

I think we highlighted the weakness of nords earlier; no magicka sustain, no dps enhancing, cold resistance passive semi useless since no one uses ice destro staff (although ice comet is used alot.)

Overall I think it would make a great tanky pvp build. Jack mentioned a few sets that could work, and I would test them out!

Use vr15 mats for testing. Then when you find the sets you need, craft vr16 legendary.

Anything else you need?

Or go on PTS and do it.
I will be race changing to Nord or Argonian when they allow us to race change. I think both of those races are absolutely amazing for the playstyle Stamina Temps use. Not to mention certain skill synergies and gear synergies other races can't capitalize on.

Oh yea the pts lol.
Only issue I have with pts is:

1) all yellow items (including rings)
2) craft gear not all available
3) for pvp, not many players to test randomly.

Question: why argonian? Just a curious and honest question.

PTS when they allow a copy, so you can bring your mats with you.
That's what I was thinking about.

Argonian because they get health bouns and and selfhealing bonus, not to mention a potion bonus which in turn stacks with said healing bonus. Combine that with CP and healing skills... gg. Works just as well if not better with a DK and NB.

Zinaroth

I play a Nord Stamplar myself and you're really in for a challenge. Weakest build in the game on the second weakest race. Don't know if you should reroll now but personally I am definately changing once we get the race change option.

Despite what people say, Nords do not make good tanks. Tanking is all about managing your rescources to help you staying alive, none of the Nord racials do this, and the 6 % reduced damage is way less useful than a stamina or magicka increase.

Minno

Zinaroth wrote: »

I play a Nord Stamplar myself and you're really in for a challenge. Weakest build in the game on the second weakest race. Don't know if you should reroll now but personally I am definately changing once we get the race change option.

Despite what people say, Nords do not make good tanks. Tanking is all about managing your rescources to help you staying alive, none of the Nord racials do this, and the 6 % reduced damage is way less useful than a stamina or magicka increase.

It's all build. Gotta keep the theory craft alive!
Challenge is good and if in trouble get a few friends

Nord has its disadvantages, but if playing a certain race/builds means your not having fun forget it.

Plenty of orc/redquard/imperial/high elf builds to go around. A nord one that gets you some success is a win in my book.

Tamriel foundry has what you all need (read sorc athremetic thread for good number crunching.)

Zinaroth

Minno wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

I play a Nord Stamplar myself and you're really in for a challenge. Weakest build in the game on the second weakest race. Don't know if you should reroll now but personally I am definately changing once we get the race change option.

Despite what people say, Nords do not make good tanks. Tanking is all about managing your rescources to help you staying alive, none of the Nord racials do this, and the 6 % reduced damage is way less useful than a stamina or magicka increase.

It's all build. Gotta keep the theory craft alive!
Challenge is good and if in trouble get a few friends

Nord has its disadvantages, but if playing a certain race/builds means your not having fun forget it.

Plenty of orc/redquard/imperial/high elf builds to go around. A nord one that gets you some success is a win in my book.

Tamriel foundry has what you all need (read sorc athremetic thread for good number crunching.)

Thanks but no thanks.
Been playing for 1,5 years only maining this toon.
I am in a top tier raiding guild.
Albeit I am not the biggest PvPer I am still almost at rank 30 and attend dueling sessions almost each week.

Don't really need help from some dude on Tamriel Foundry, already know everything about my class.

But now that you answered my post I would like to point out that both you and @blur need to chillax a bit.
@zornyan knows what he's talking about and everything he has said has been the truth. Drowning him and everyone else with long comments critisicing his arguments and rethoric really doesn't take away from the fact that Stamplars are rock bottom in PvP atm and that Nords as a race are not much better off.

Sure you can "make it work". I have for 1,5 years now. You can even achieve a lot. But there are better options out there.

Also while JackDaniels stream a lot and I aknowledge his skill he is the wrong person to worship when it comes to theorycrafting and in-depth knowledge on the class. He is however proof that you can make it work. But if OP really wants the truth he should listen to people like me, @egorush, @zornyan or last but not least @alcast.

But like I said if you like a challenge OP, go for it. Everythig you achieve will be greater because you're basically playing with a handicap.

zornyan

As @Zinaroth has said you really should listen to some other people, look at him, and alcast and nifty, these people have played this class since day freaking one, they have done every build, tried every weapon combo, seen every skill hit for every possible amount of damage, tested them against the hardest pve and pvp content possible .

They are all extemely good, but they all agree with these points.

Alcast spent god knows how long theory crafting and playing with his stamplar, go look at his thread on Tamriel foundry. He put in hundreds of hours just doing videos and writing posts, yet he himself said "zos literially broke templars, stam temp is rock bottom"

His numbers prove it too, even things like raw dps (where a stam build should shine) he's only getting 2/3 the dps of mag builds, along side giving up all utility and self healing/sustain.

In general templars are pretty broken, they are ridiculously bugged right now, I for one love the class too Damm much, literially to the point if they deleted templars from the game I would quit.

See the thing is, actually the problem is people like sypher and deltia etc. Yes problem!

Look at sypher when he made a mag temp on PTS for Ic , he made a video of him wrecking 3 players, even though his build was what I and many others would say is pretty sub par for pvp on a mag temp, with low spell damage Magicka etc he wrecked players, that's not because temps are good, it's because he is a very skilled pvp player fighting complete n00bs.

Notice how he never gets CC'd? Even when he has no stam or hp he doesn't die?

Hell he made a video of his stamplar using breath of life in pvp, seriously breath of life on a stamplar?

If he actually went against a skilled player using a sorc or NB (as in equally skilled) he would be beaten 100% of the time. He probably does get wrecked alot too, just that's not released to the public eye.

But still, like there was a thread a while ago, people like on youtube to watch the idols , see this video and go "omghz stamplar OP must play" create the build then come on here and QQ that they suck and can't kill anyone.

Just listen to people that love and play this class, I don't want to see templars over buffed or made godlike, I just want to see our broken skills fixed and a bit of tweaking.

Mumyo

Alucardo wrote: »

I know a few Nord Templars, and personally it sounds like a legit build to me. They tank like mo'fos in dungeons with Nords passives and the right sets.

Its definately not the nordpassive making them tanky.
The way the buff works is just hillarious. You would be more tanky having more life or stam. A thing that nord offers the worst.

zornyan

Mumyo wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

I know a few Nord Templars, and personally it sounds like a legit build to me. They tank like mo'fos in dungeons with Nords passives and the right sets.

Its definately not the nordpassive making them tanky.
The way the buff works is just hillarious. You would be more tanky having more life or stam. A thing that nord offers the worst.

Didn't someone do th actual math and testing, when someone compared nord to imperial, and it worked out that the extra imperial health bonus worked out to be worth about 8 or 9% of the way nod resistance passive worked including their health bonus?

Anyway it was tested and figured out that an imperial would take more hits to kill than a nord, whilst also having more damage thanks to stam, and another benefit of the 10% heal chance .

cschwingeb14_ESO

6% damage reduction is pretty much exactly like 6% extra health, 6%extra healing taken and 6% health regen.

The comparison can waver a bit depending on if you are heal debuffed, pulsared or stuff like that. But thinking about it this way makes comparisons to other classes easier

Sypher

zornyan wrote: »

Hell he made a video of his stamplar using breath of life in pvp, seriously breath of life on a stamplar?

That would be my level 47 stamina templar we're talking about here..

zornyan

Sypher wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Hell he made a video of his stamplar using breath of life in pvp, seriously breath of life on a stamplar?

That would be my level 47 stamina templar we're talking about here..

Sypher I'm not bashing you dude, like I said in the same post you are a skilled player, and thats the issue in itself, In that someone without a clue will watch a video like that and decide a stam templar has the beat self healing in the game then come on here and tell me and other people that use the class that it's awesome.

EgoRush

Zinaroth wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

I play a Nord Stamplar myself and you're really in for a challenge. Weakest build in the game on the second weakest race. Don't know if you should reroll now but personally I am definately changing once we get the race change option.

Despite what people say, Nords do not make good tanks. Tanking is all about managing your rescources to help you staying alive, none of the Nord racials do this, and the 6 % reduced damage is way less useful than a stamina or magicka increase.

It's all build. Gotta keep the theory craft alive!
Challenge is good and if in trouble get a few friends

Nord has its disadvantages, but if playing a certain race/builds means your not having fun forget it.

Plenty of orc/redquard/imperial/high elf builds to go around. A nord one that gets you some success is a win in my book.

Tamriel foundry has what you all need (read sorc athremetic thread for good number crunching.)

Thanks but no thanks.
Been playing for 1,5 years only maining this toon.
I am in a top tier raiding guild.
Albeit I am not the biggest PvPer I am still almost at rank 30 and attend dueling sessions almost each week.

Don't really need help from some dude on Tamriel Foundry, already know everything about my class.

But now that you answered my post I would like to point out that both you and @blur need to chillax a bit.
@zornyan knows what he's talking about and everything he has said has been the truth. Drowning him and everyone else with long comments critisicing his arguments and rethoric really doesn't take away from the fact that Stamplars are rock bottom in PvP atm and that Nords as a race are not much better off.

Sure you can "make it work". I have for 1,5 years now. You can even achieve a lot. But there are better options out there.

Also while JackDaniels stream a lot and I aknowledge his skill he is the wrong person to worship when it comes to theorycrafting and in-depth knowledge on the class. He is however proof that you can make it work. But if OP really wants the truth he should listen to people like me, @egorush, @zornyan or last but not least @alcast.

But like I said if you like a challenge OP, go for it. Everythig you achieve will be greater because you're basically playing with a handicap.

Woo pro-Templar theorycrafter here jokes.

Yeah, Alcast and I did a lot of tests for Templars - we're basically the magicka/stamina versions of each other, always trying to make either magiplar or stamplar work for PvE DPS. For a long time making magiplar competitive was much more of a challenge, but with the recent changes we're excelling ahead of stamplar I think. Alcast and I compared a lot of skills and thanks to the light armour passives and access to nirnhoned we magiplars do A LOT more damage with our sweeps than an optimised stamplar does with jabs. Considering the self heal of sweeps and the useless secondary effect of jabs, this simply isn't balanced. It's unfortunate, but I really do feel stamina Templar needs some love or a boost to their jabs.

Minno

EgoRush wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

I play a Nord Stamplar myself and you're really in for a challenge. Weakest build in the game on the second weakest race. Don't know if you should reroll now but personally I am definately changing once we get the race change option.

Despite what people say, Nords do not make good tanks. Tanking is all about managing your rescources to help you staying alive, none of the Nord racials do this, and the 6 % reduced damage is way less useful than a stamina or magicka increase.

It's all build. Gotta keep the theory craft alive!
Challenge is good and if in trouble get a few friends

Nord has its disadvantages, but if playing a certain race/builds means your not having fun forget it.

Plenty of orc/redquard/imperial/high elf builds to go around. A nord one that gets you some success is a win in my book.

Tamriel foundry has what you all need (read sorc athremetic thread for good number crunching.)

Thanks but no thanks.
Been playing for 1,5 years only maining this toon.
I am in a top tier raiding guild.
Albeit I am not the biggest PvPer I am still almost at rank 30 and attend dueling sessions almost each week.

Don't really need help from some dude on Tamriel Foundry, already know everything about my class.

But now that you answered my post I would like to point out that both you and @blur need to chillax a bit.
@zornyan knows what he's talking about and everything he has said has been the truth. Drowning him and everyone else with long comments critisicing his arguments and rethoric really doesn't take away from the fact that Stamplars are rock bottom in PvP atm and that Nords as a race are not much better off.

Sure you can "make it work". I have for 1,5 years now. You can even achieve a lot. But there are better options out there.

Also while JackDaniels stream a lot and I aknowledge his skill he is the wrong person to worship when it comes to theorycrafting and in-depth knowledge on the class. He is however proof that you can make it work. But if OP really wants the truth he should listen to people like me, @egorush, @zornyan or last but not least @alcast.

But like I said if you like a challenge OP, go for it. Everythig you achieve will be greater because you're basically playing with a handicap.

Woo pro-Templar theorycrafter here jokes.

Yeah, Alcast and I did a lot of tests for Templars - we're basically the magicka/stamina versions of each other, always trying to make either magiplar or stamplar work for PvE DPS. For a long time making magiplar competitive was much more of a challenge, but with the recent changes we're excelling ahead of stamplar I think. Alcast and I compared a lot of skills and thanks to the light armour passives and access to nirnhoned we magiplars do A LOT more damage with our sweeps than an optimised stamplar does with jabs. Considering the self heal of sweeps and the useless secondary effect of jabs, this simply isn't balanced. It's unfortunate, but I really do feel stamina Templar needs some love or a boost to their jabs.

Thank you for the clarification!
Links to the discussion threads?

DPS difference are we talking hundreds or thousands?

EgoRush

Minno wrote: »

EgoRush wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

I play a Nord Stamplar myself and you're really in for a challenge. Weakest build in the game on the second weakest race. Don't know if you should reroll now but personally I am definately changing once we get the race change option.

Despite what people say, Nords do not make good tanks. Tanking is all about managing your rescources to help you staying alive, none of the Nord racials do this, and the 6 % reduced damage is way less useful than a stamina or magicka increase.

It's all build. Gotta keep the theory craft alive!
Challenge is good and if in trouble get a few friends

Nord has its disadvantages, but if playing a certain race/builds means your not having fun forget it.

Plenty of orc/redquard/imperial/high elf builds to go around. A nord one that gets you some success is a win in my book.

Tamriel foundry has what you all need (read sorc athremetic thread for good number crunching.)

Thanks but no thanks.
Been playing for 1,5 years only maining this toon.
I am in a top tier raiding guild.
Albeit I am not the biggest PvPer I am still almost at rank 30 and attend dueling sessions almost each week.

Don't really need help from some dude on Tamriel Foundry, already know everything about my class.

But now that you answered my post I would like to point out that both you and @blur need to chillax a bit.
@zornyan knows what he's talking about and everything he has said has been the truth. Drowning him and everyone else with long comments critisicing his arguments and rethoric really doesn't take away from the fact that Stamplars are rock bottom in PvP atm and that Nords as a race are not much better off.

Sure you can "make it work". I have for 1,5 years now. You can even achieve a lot. But there are better options out there.

Also while JackDaniels stream a lot and I aknowledge his skill he is the wrong person to worship when it comes to theorycrafting and in-depth knowledge on the class. He is however proof that you can make it work. But if OP really wants the truth he should listen to people like me, @egorush, @zornyan or last but not least @alcast.

But like I said if you like a challenge OP, go for it. Everythig you achieve will be greater because you're basically playing with a handicap.

Woo pro-Templar theorycrafter here jokes.

Yeah, Alcast and I did a lot of tests for Templars - we're basically the magicka/stamina versions of each other, always trying to make either magiplar or stamplar work for PvE DPS. For a long time making magiplar competitive was much more of a challenge, but with the recent changes we're excelling ahead of stamplar I think. Alcast and I compared a lot of skills and thanks to the light armour passives and access to nirnhoned we magiplars do A LOT more damage with our sweeps than an optimised stamplar does with jabs. Considering the self heal of sweeps and the useless secondary effect of jabs, this simply isn't balanced. It's unfortunate, but I really do feel stamina Templar needs some love or a boost to their jabs.

Thank you for the clarification!
Links to the discussion threads?

DPS difference are we talking hundreds or thousands?

We had some discussion on it here: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/230260/weapon-damage-broken-again-puncturing-sweeps-vs-biting-jabs/p1

Alternatively you can check out the builds we use on Tamriel Foundry, though my thread is lacking some DPS parses as I've mostly running healer lately.

Alcast's Stamplar: http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/jabsmania-templar-stamina-dd-build-for-update-1-6/
You'll see he's stopped updating it stamplar really isn't worth the effort lately.

EgoRush's Magiplar: http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/aedrics-warrior-magicka-build-templar-dd/

Feel free to ask us more specific questions there too, I tend to check that thread out more than these forums.

blur

zornyan wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Hell he made a video of his stamplar using breath of life in pvp, seriously breath of life on a stamplar?

That would be my level 47 stamina templar we're talking about here..

Sypher I'm not bashing you dude, like I said in the same post you are a skilled player, and thats the issue in itself, In that someone without a clue will watch a video like that and decide a stam templar has the beat self healing in the game then come on here and tell me and other people that use the class that it's awesome.

No you came on here and made specific statements saying:
Stamina Templars have the lowest burst in pvp
Stamina Templars have the worst self healing
Stamina Templars have 0 Mobility

and when you got called out for making these ignorant statements you began twisting the definitions of these terms to avoid accountability. As shown in previous posts in this thread, Stamina Templars (even with Breath of Life, something you knock) still have better self-healing than a Stamina Nightblade as all healing CLASS BASED comes from killing a target with Mark or Killer's Blade. Meanwhile they tie with a Sorc as even a Crit Surge big heal is predicated on either creating space by disable and getting off a decent Crit Rush or AoE spam with Steel Tornado. Both of these variables make this situational and not 100% reliable just like the criticism you gave Repentance. While I am not saying Templar self heals are necessarily better than a Sorc, both Repentance and Surge have unreliable variables.

You also ignored the class based burst Stamina Templars have through Blinding Javelin, which when over 4200 Weapon Damage and buffed through Empower, Major Brut, and Fracture, does upwards of 8k instantly on demand. This is something a Stamina Sorc lacks because they have 0 class abilities that are Stamina morphs (which do DD/Burst), let alone the passives like Templars. At best you get some regen and 4% Weapon Damage (becuase you won't have more than 2 class abilities on your 2h bar). This is not even considering the extra 5k+ procs of Burning Light (which seems to be proccing less since last Monday, ZOS?) and the better passives that give % critical damage, etc.

Then you were called into question regarding mobility. Stamina Templars who maximize damage are going to be dual wield. It's hands down the best and it also gives you access to Quick Cloak. This is a buff that not only gives you Major Expedition, it's cheap to cast and you can permanently keep it up. Add Repentance to the mix and it's never an issue. They also have Toppling Charge which rarely bugs for me as I try not to let myself get set up with LoS issues (this is what always glitches TC for me). TC also has a nice stun and does around 3-4k (if I remember correctly). Being that I am always close to full Magicka, it's nice having a spender, particularly one linked to a stun/gap closer. DK's on the other hand only have gap closers found in the weapon skill lines and Assault line outside of an amazing ult called Take Flight. That said, you are wrong a third time as DKs have the worst mobility, yet even at worst, they still have some. Some is greater than your alleged 0. Lastly in a desperate effort to hang on to your argument you redefined "mobility" and limited it to "escape" like Streak and Dark Cloak.

Lastly, regarding Syper, nobody came into this thread and said they have the best selfhealing, particularly based on Sypher using Breath of Life. This hyperbole from you. Also you are putting too much emphasis on his "player skill." Numbers are numbers. Him hitting the hotkey and healing up is not anyway related to "player skill." The numbers are there because that's how much the ability does based on his itemization, passives, CP, and overall situation. It's not about "being good" it's just what BoL does when you have the right gear/cp/skills etc. At the end of the day you are convinced on your position and no amount of facts or testimony will change your mind. This is apparent in other threads as well where you constantly complain about Nightblades and Wrecking Blow.

zornyan

@blur you spout so much crap it's unbelieveable.

First odd breath of life is crap for a stamplar, neigh on non existant, for one sypher build was battle leveled, which at the time meant he had equal mag and stam pools, unless you're telling me stamplars run around with 18k odd magicka now?


Next to add, stamplars have no mobility, everyone and their dog could use rapid for instance, but that isn't class mobility is it?

Stamplars DO have the worst healing, I can't belive you can't see this? You're arguing with me, and some of the very best and longest played templars in the games history and you still won't listen.

Repentance is not a heal, for one it is tiny, and mainly, there are NO CORPSES IN 1V1 , how the hell do you plan on using it then? At least crit surge can be used then ffs. Or green dragon blood.

Yes nightblades have to cloak, but then they also have many Siphoning skills, and even an ultimate that a stamblade can use that deals damage and heals, they can also use cloak to avoid damage before it even happens.

TEMPLARS CANT

Do you speak english, burst damage , yes burst, templars don't have BURST ,

Take biting jabs, IF you're that LUCKY to land all 4 hits, and all four hits do damage (as the last hit often bugs, does zero damage and just uses the knockback giving cc immunity) a well documented bug.

IF all those 3 cases of rng and bugs work in you're favour, you can hit a small amount more than a single wrecking blow

BUT

In thst 1.1 second channel/cast time which can't be animation cancelled you can

Wrecking blow, bash, light attack, wrecking blow

Or ransack , bash, light attack, any other skill

Both of those options offer considerably more damage, and also have far more beneficial effexcs, because jabs has the useless cc immunity it gives to players, where as wrecking blow will do the knockback CC too, or thee sword and board combo will debuff your opponent.

Jabs is severely lacking, even zos have said this, or are they wrong too?


So anyone using sword and board or two handed will deal more BURST damage, AND have more useful side effects from the skills than jabs has


Toppling charge on a stam build? Really? So much burst that charge must be doing rofl.

It's not just me it bugs out for, it's a ton of people, hence why zos is implementing a fix in thieves guild as there's a big thread about it ongoing.

Dks don't have class gap closer? Erm chains?

If you honestly rely on javelin for burst damage then I imagine you get wrecked in pvp, or just fight very unskilled players, which you lied in your statement

"With major brutality, major fracture and empower can be used on demand" well seeing as it requires THREE buffs to work, so that's not exactly on demand is it? Since empower requires refreshing every use, and templars don't have easy access to major fracture now do they?

So again you're spouting a load of crap.

So just for people interested in FACTS

Templars lack BURST damage

Stam templars have no heal outside of rslly/vigor which is considerably weaker than other classes thanks to them using buffs like major mending

Their ONLY heal requires dead bodies

They have NO CLASS mobility, NO CLASS ESCAPE,

Stam templars have NO gap closers

For anyone reading please ask someone with a bit more experience than @blur , people like alcast, nifty, egorush,Zinaroth have all been playing templar since launch and ALL AGREE THAT templars are struggling atm but in general STAM TEMPLARS are at the very bottom for both PvE AND pvp

zornyan

Oh and I'll leave this for anyone wanting actual useful information.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-GB/discussion/234362/templar-issues-thread#latest

This is a thread concerning all templars atm, it has all of the best templars agreeing how it is currently in a bad stare, and how stam temp is the worst class atm

It shows how stam temps are lacking so so much compared to other classes, and the fact that every single one of our skills is heavily bugged, and skills like binding javlin are crap for pvp.

It shows that we need a major overhaul, and that even the longest playing temps of the game would now not recommend creating one for pvp or pve, as they are such a sub par class it's a joke.

But don't worry guys blur says it's all fine and everyone else is wrong.

eliisra

There's always going to be stamblades, Wrecking Blow spammers as well as magicka sorcs, coming into these threads saying "templars are fine l2p".

They also do it in magicka DK's threads.

Reason, they once or twice failed to kill a templar heal bot or DK block bot 1v1, before buddies came to his or her rescue. That alone means "fine" or maybe even need a nerf because not dying fast enough.

People rocking best class/build combination or meta in PvP, will always do everything in their power to stay on top. We always have half the player population or more benefiting from imbalance and therefore supporting it.

Especially problematic in this game, since we only have re-balancing patches like twice a year. So when a major patch rolls out it's kinda over and done. Think that's why people are so aggressive and salty about class- and build balance, while actively trying to sabotage for others when they come with suggestions. No one wants to be stuck being the weakest one for 6 months or even a full year(like past stamina builds).

caeliusstarbreaker

All that being said/cleared up OP.... At the end of it all if you want to play a nord stamplar, by means have fun. You'll be, from a min max perspective, in an under performing class and race... But that isn't the end of everything.

Minno

EgoRush wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

EgoRush wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

I play a Nord Stamplar myself and you're really in for a challenge. Weakest build in the game on the second weakest race. Don't know if you should reroll now but personally I am definately changing once we get the race change option.

Despite what people say, Nords do not make good tanks. Tanking is all about managing your rescources to help you staying alive, none of the Nord racials do this, and the 6 % reduced damage is way less useful than a stamina or magicka increase.

It's all build. Gotta keep the theory craft alive!
Challenge is good and if in trouble get a few friends

Nord has its disadvantages, but if playing a certain race/builds means your not having fun forget it.

Plenty of orc/redquard/imperial/high elf builds to go around. A nord one that gets you some success is a win in my book.

Tamriel foundry has what you all need (read sorc athremetic thread for good number crunching.)

Thanks but no thanks.
Been playing for 1,5 years only maining this toon.
I am in a top tier raiding guild.
Albeit I am not the biggest PvPer I am still almost at rank 30 and attend dueling sessions almost each week.

Don't really need help from some dude on Tamriel Foundry, already know everything about my class.

But now that you answered my post I would like to point out that both you and @blur need to chillax a bit.
@zornyan knows what he's talking about and everything he has said has been the truth. Drowning him and everyone else with long comments critisicing his arguments and rethoric really doesn't take away from the fact that Stamplars are rock bottom in PvP atm and that Nords as a race are not much better off.

Sure you can "make it work". I have for 1,5 years now. You can even achieve a lot. But there are better options out there.

Also while JackDaniels stream a lot and I aknowledge his skill he is the wrong person to worship when it comes to theorycrafting and in-depth knowledge on the class. He is however proof that you can make it work. But if OP really wants the truth he should listen to people like me, @egorush, @zornyan or last but not least @alcast.

But like I said if you like a challenge OP, go for it. Everythig you achieve will be greater because you're basically playing with a handicap.

Woo pro-Templar theorycrafter here jokes.

Yeah, Alcast and I did a lot of tests for Templars - we're basically the magicka/stamina versions of each other, always trying to make either magiplar or stamplar work for PvE DPS. For a long time making magiplar competitive was much more of a challenge, but with the recent changes we're excelling ahead of stamplar I think. Alcast and I compared a lot of skills and thanks to the light armour passives and access to nirnhoned we magiplars do A LOT more damage with our sweeps than an optimised stamplar does with jabs. Considering the self heal of sweeps and the useless secondary effect of jabs, this simply isn't balanced. It's unfortunate, but I really do feel stamina Templar needs some love or a boost to their jabs.

Thank you for the clarification!
Links to the discussion threads?

DPS difference are we talking hundreds or thousands?

We had some discussion on it here: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/230260/weapon-damage-broken-again-puncturing-sweeps-vs-biting-jabs/p1

Alternatively you can check out the builds we use on Tamriel Foundry, though my thread is lacking some DPS parses as I've mostly running healer lately.

Alcast's Stamplar: http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/jabsmania-templar-stamina-dd-build-for-update-1-6/
You'll see he's stopped updating it stamplar really isn't worth the effort lately.

EgoRush's Magiplar: http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/aedrics-warrior-magicka-build-templar-dd/

Feel free to ask us more specific questions there too, I tend to check that thread out more than these forums.

Thanks! You and the other templars go great work getting these issues worked.

Not sure if anyone saw but ZOS responded to the jabs/sweeps issues.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, we took a look at both Puncturing Sweep and Biting Jabs, and they both appear to be functioning properly. Keep in mind (as was mentioned earlier in this thread) that there are a lot of stats that determine the damage output of these abilities, including Champion Points, so one player's damage is likely to be different than someone else's.

Correct me if this was disbuted later on (I'll probably finish that thread.)

Also there was talk about the lack of penetration from Alcats side of his build (instead putting points into stam regen.)
Not sure how any of this relates to pvp, except would be better to have stamplar always run dual maces with armor pen traits?