Nord Templar - Should i reroll?

Minno

@blur @zornyan let's lay off the negativity.
Get to this objectively.

zornyan

@minno the problem with jabs are far more than that.

For pvp you have

No 140% damage applied to shields

For pve and pvp you have

4th jab often applies zero damage and just gives cc immunity

Jabs miss even when target in range and correct distance (been talked about by zos saying they've now realised cone abilities need a buff due to above issue )

Roots mean you're unable to use jabs due to not being able to turn and since jabs is cone aoe it's not a target skill.

Jabs not proc'in burning light correctly (around 10-15% at best atm)

The biggest issue though?

Sweeps does more damage, or even if it did identical damage it heals you for 40% the whole time, you can face tank anything just spamming sweeps.

Jabs gives you...major savagery which is uselsss since most builds will slot camo hunter for the same buff.

Minno

zornyan wrote: »

@minno the problem with jabs are far more than that.

For pvp you have

No 140% damage applied to shields

For pve and pvp you have

4th jab often applies zero damage and just gives cc immunity

Jabs miss even when target in range and correct distance (been talked about by zos saying they've now realised cone abilities need a buff due to above issue )

Roots mean you're unable to use jabs due to not being able to turn and since jabs is cone aoe it's not a target skill.

Jabs not proc'in burning light correctly (around 10-15% at best atm)

The biggest issue though?

Sweeps does more damage, or even if it did identical damage it heals you for 40% the whole time, you can face tank anything just spamming sweeps.

Jabs gives you...major savagery which is uselsss since most builds will slot camo hunter for the same buff.

Asayre wrote: »

Maxus the Many would be great. But I think @Xantaria has figured it out. Just have to get more penetration to do more damage @Alcast and if possible don't use Serpent but probably that is not doable.

Was confirmed that more pen was needed to get biting jabs on par with sweeps (concerning differences between blabafat's spell pen and alcast's stam regen builds).

140% not applying to shields is an obvious issue, but something not total doom and gloom. My sorc fights can go on for 15 minutes in duel settings. Should be less, but I'm not complaining. it just means judge your enemies during your pvp session and reslot skills accordingly. Or use a cheap shield if you don't have impen traits/CP to even the playing field.

Jabs immunity is annoying, but give us another dps option and I'll gladly use it. Sadly I don't think a better skill exists in pvp for magicka Templars since they synergize with magicka better than elemental. For stam, you can use WB but I don't feel biting jabs should be discredited (especially for the crit chance combined with extra weapon dmg and dmg against blocked targets for just slotting jabs.). Also expert hunter, does its additional dmg in magicka (an obvious con.). Doesn't mean it's bad, but its not the only skill to slot.

Jabs misses when in range? Link to dev saying this? If its in a thread egorush posted, just say so and I'll read it during lunch.

Jabs procs burning light on activation and not for each hit. Comes down to the confusing nature of the skill itself (instant cast but channeled with heal per hit, with last hit doing most dmg, but its an AOE cone? Just pick one identity and code it ZOS lol)

Jabs will miss a few hits. It's pvp and players move. Question is, is your build filling in the areas to allow your jabs to hit for full? If there's a snare root on you, shouldn't you purge it? If your enemy moves to the side, shouldn't you block cancel and reset your position? If jabs CC's, shouldn't you use toppling charge first? If opponent runs faster, shouldn't you snare them? There's viable counters to get your jabs to land as much as possible. You can also run backwards if your enemy is dumb enough to charge you head-on.

zornyan

@minno it's been linked in the thread I posted I believe , or the one about Toppling Charge bug, it was in another thread where one of the devs said (might have been lambert or worbel) that aoe cones aren't working as intended, as it's far harder to hit an enemy with one and their damage does not reflect this.

Not jabs specifically, but it's more of a templar issue than others since it's our main class skill and one of few aoe cones even used in game.

Also myself, and many others have shown videos of how jabs misses for no apparent reason, I've had a target stand dead still in front of me, with me moving very very slowly around them and it missed multiple hits.

All my suggestion was is the extra crit chance is rarely useful because camo hunter or evil hunter is such a good choice to begin with, it really either needs a % heal or damage increased to 170% as per it's original design.

Which in itself says something, when the devs made biting jabs ans it was on PTS it was made with a 170% chance, as it was an aoe cone they realised hits might miss so gave it some solid damage, except people QQ ans it got reduced to 140%

Yes the burning light thing is stupid, blazing spear is a DoT but can proc burning light multiple times, yet jabs cant? Really? It's just a stupid design.

I do purge etc as much as possibpe, but unfortunately I don't slot toppling charge anymore, it's far too buggy. It's gotten me killed far more times than its worked as a gap closer, so I just slot something like trapping webs instead, least I won't be standing still frozen after using it.

Minno

zornyan wrote: »

@minno it's been linked in the thread I posted I believe , or the one about Toppling Charge bug, it was in another thread where one of the devs said (might have been lambert or worbel) that aoe cones aren't working as intended, as it's far harder to hit an enemy with one and their damage does not reflect this.

Not jabs specifically, but it's more of a templar issue than others since it's our main class skill and one of few aoe cones even used in game.

Also myself, and many others have shown videos of how jabs misses for no apparent reason, I've had a target stand dead still in front of me, with me moving very very slowly around them and it missed multiple hits.

All my suggestion was is the extra crit chance is rarely useful because camo hunter or evil hunter is such a good choice to begin with, it really either needs a % heal or damage increased to 170% as per it's original design.

Which in itself says something, when the devs made biting jabs ans it was on PTS it was made with a 170% chance, as it was an aoe cone they realised hits might miss so gave it some solid damage, except people QQ ans it got reduced to 140%

Yes the burning light thing is stupid, blazing spear is a DoT but can proc burning light multiple times, yet jabs cant? Really? It's just a stupid design.

I do purge etc as much as possibpe, but unfortunately I don't slot toppling charge anymore, it's far too buggy. It's gotten me killed far more times than its worked as a gap closer, so I just slot something like trapping webs instead, least I won't be standing still frozen after using it.

Right on. I'll read it then.

My argument against camo hunter is that its additional dmg is magicka.
Jabs has ability to allow following passives:
-"While an Aedric Spear ability is slotted:
Increases the damage bonus for your Critical Strikes by (10)% and your damage against blocking targets by (10)%."
- "Increases Block amount vs melee attacks by 15%"

Evil hunter (better morph for a stam Templar since you rarely are hitting from stealth.) Has following stats
- Gives your attacks a 15% chance to cause an additional 795 Magic Damage and restore 840 Stamina against undead and Daedra. The chance is reduced to 4% against all other enemies.
Killing undead and Daedra refreshes the effect's duration.
While slotted, undead and Daedra are easier to see and you gain Major Savagery, increasing your Weapon Critical rating by 2191.
Chance to restore Stamina on attacks"

Numbers are skewed a bit but the jabs can out weigh evil hunter from a dps standpoint in pvp. Yes there are vamps and ww. But its dmg is situational and magicka based. If weapon critical is all you need, idk if its worth an entire skill slot.

zornyan

It's not just that, but say compare wb with evil hunter against jabs

That's a fairer comparison, (you could have an aedric spear skill slotted for the passives like javelin)

So for wb and evil hunter you've got

Empower on each attack (since it empowers itself now)
Chance to regen stam each hit
Chance to cause additional albeit magic damage
And bonus damage against daedra
10% crit bonus

Where as jabs is just
10% crit bonus
10-15% chance to proc burning light although should be 25%

And that's it, if you've got javelin on the bar you get the damage against blocking targets and crit damage bonus too.

The single biggest change imo is now wrecking blow empowers myself it can hit harder than jabs, that extra 20% is quite a chunk.

Nowdays not even the first jab gets empower it just doesn't get the buff at all.

Minno

zornyan wrote: »

It's not just that, but say compare wb with evil hunter against jabs

That's a fairer comparison, (you could have an aedric spear skill slotted for the passives like javelin)

So for wb and evil hunter you've got

Empower on each attack (since it empowers itself now)
Chance to regen stam each hit
Chance to cause additional albeit magic damage
And bonus damage against daedra
10% crit bonus

Where as jabs is just
10% crit bonus
10-15% chance to proc burning light although should be 25%

And that's it, if you've got javelin on the bar you get the damage against blocking targets and crit damage bonus too.

The single biggest change imo is now wrecking blow empowers myself it can hit harder than jabs, that extra 20% is quite a chunk.

Nowdays not even the first jab gets empower it just doesn't get the buff at all.

Good comparison.

WB is where it should be so its hard to discount it lol.

Only issue is that WB has a counter similar to jabs except the entire attack animation goes until point of dmg application where it just awkwardly disrupts itself. (Counter is to run through the player )

Jav use totally viable to get the passives.
But now you are spamming WB and still have to deal with "position type" issues. WB has an exploit where its CC immunity applies and is used up when your target is on the ground. Hence the infamousness of it. So what do players use if they don't want to exploit?

zornyan

@Minno rapid strikes ?

Basically jabs should lock onto a target, I think ig they made it a single target skill like others so you lock on, then it aditionally does a small aoe damage in a cone effect , then it would be far more reliable.

It needs to not be classes as a Channel/dot, so it can proc burning light multiple times.

Change the damage to 170% as it was originally intended.

Get rid of the end knockback.

As it stands jabs relies on so much rng and bug/luck

Such as

Will burning light proc
Will the last jab actually do damage or will it just give them cc immunity for free
Will all the jabs land
(Ignore the shields bug for now)
Will my target walk through me or cancel it

As opposed to wrecking blow which is just the last one, and as we all know with wb if your target gets hit and is on the floor that's ir, their dead.

Almost forgot that wrecking blow can also do increased damage to low health targets if executioner is slotted, and it also increase stam regen? Was it if you kill a target with 2h equipped.

Minno

zornyan wrote: »

@Minno rapid strikes ?

Basically jabs should lock onto a target, I think ig they made it a single target skill like others so you lock on, then it aditionally does a small aoe damage in a cone effect , then it would be far more reliable.

It needs to not be classes as a Channel/dot, so it can proc burning light multiple times.

Change the damage to 170% as it was originally intended.

Get rid of the end knockback.

As it stands jabs relies on so much rng and bug/luck

Such as

Will burning light proc
Will the last jab actually do damage or will it just give them cc immunity for free
Will all the jabs land
(Ignore the shields bug for now)
Will my target walk through me or cancel it

As opposed to wrecking blow which is just the last one, and as we all know with wb if your target gets hit and is on the floor that's ir, their dead.

Almost forgot that wrecking blow can also do increased damage to low health targets if executioner is slotted, and it also increase stam regen? Was it if you kill a target with 2h equipped.

Lol rapid strikes troll.

Idk, I don't want to jabs as a total one end skill.
Right now the strength of aedric spear tree is the use of all its skills to increase burning light proc. Some work better in pve than pvp and vice versa. You should be filling in the dmg with another skill and vary it up.

WB, while strong, is not for everyone and it devoids the Templar of its identity as a crit dmg friendly build.

It's definitely a "success versus fun" argument and I'll always defend the side that strives to look for fun Templar ways instead of the ones that either cost too much in time/money or are too one-skill oriented.

zornyan

@Minno don't get me wrong I completly agree, even on my magicka build just spamming sweeps in hugely boring.

The problem is how our other class skills are lacking hugely.

For instance, blazing spear nerfed twice over the last month, also no stam morph, even useless for magicka builds now

Sum shield, well, yes it was op with a huge health build before, but that just needed a damage reduction, now it's just a wasted skill slot.

Javelin? Not that great in pvp, damage is too low and it'd uselsss against a dk or a sword and board user as it gets reflected.

Toppling charge? Numerous bugs, no stam morph, causes more deaths than anything due to the internal cooldown it has and the getting stuck bug.

And that's it for stamplar, dawns wrath skill line is essentially unusable, as is our healing tree, only purifying ritual for a purhe, which anyone can obtain purge for anyway.

Atzel

On Topic , Nord is bad race , use something with 10% max stamina/magicka.

Having more resource pools will make you do more damage and heal for more , because it makes your skills more powerfull.

Torbschka

Wow, after reading all of this im feeling like "stop playing nord stamplar" lol, well, I think i will still try to make something work.. i just like my toon and dont wanna level again, furthermore, i havent lost any 1vs1 yet (ps4) with my current build.

Anyway, what do u guys think about this:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=Ch3HrsVRRp4

I know its a DK in this video, but hes a redguard, im a nord so i'll ahve 30% more health regen plus radiant aura with another 30% health/ life regen over 17 seconds.

I agree with most of the things here, the only thing i would like to add is that i think the stamplar strength and mobility is purifying ritual. with a bow slotted and purifying ritual i feel very mobily and cant be snared + speed bost. but with no means im an expert.

Thanks for all this useful information guys, waht do u guys think about a "regenerator templar" (cahnging some skills here, i wouldnt use dots, i think i would go snb with aa, ransack, shiwld bash.

EDIT: @duuude9192b14_ESO , maybe you can tell if this would work with a templar and do u still running this setup?

zornyan

Torbschka wrote: »

Wow, after reading all of this im feeling like "stop playing nord stamplar" lol, well, I think i will still try to make something work.. i just like my toon and dont wanna level again, furthermore, i havent lost any 1vs1 yet (ps4) with my current build.

Anyway, what do u guys think about this:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=Ch3HrsVRRp4

I know its a DK in this video, but hes a redguard, im a nord so i'll ahve 30% more health regen plus radiant aura with another 30% health/ life regen over 17 seconds.

I agree with most of the things here, the only thing i would like to add is that i think the stamplar strength and mobility is purifying ritual. with a bow slotted and purifying ritual i feel very mobily and cant be snared + speed bost. but with no means im an expert.

Thanks for all this useful information guys, waht do u guys think about a "regenerator templar" (cahnging some skills here, i wouldnt use dots, i think i would go snb with aa, ransack, shiwld bash.

EDIT: @duuude9192b14_ESO , maybe you can tell if this would work with a templar and do u still running this setup?

Radiant aura is crap, it's the same effect as using a potion (which you should be keeping up during battle) and it doesn't stack. Pretty much no one uses radiant aura.

Torbschka

And the mage passive (20% stam/life) and dragon blood do stack with potions?

Minno

zornyan wrote: »

@Minno don't get me wrong I completly agree, even on my magicka build just spamming sweeps in hugely boring.

The problem is how our other class skills are lacking hugely.

For instance, blazing spear nerfed twice over the last month, also no stam morph, even useless for magicka builds now

Sum shield, well, yes it was op with a huge health build before, but that just needed a damage reduction, now it's just a wasted skill slot.

Javelin? Not that great in pvp, damage is too low and it'd uselsss against a dk or a sword and board user as it gets reflected.

Toppling charge? Numerous bugs, no stam morph, causes more deaths than anything due to the internal cooldown it has and the getting stuck bug.

And that's it for stamplar, dawns wrath skill line is essentially unusable, as is our healing tree, only purifying ritual for a purhe, which anyone can obtain purge for anyway.

zornyan wrote: »

Torbschka wrote: »

Wow, after reading all of this im feeling like "stop playing nord stamplar" lol, well, I think i will still try to make something work.. i just like my toon and dont wanna level again, furthermore, i havent lost any 1vs1 yet (ps4) with my current build.

Anyway, what do u guys think about this:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=Ch3HrsVRRp4

I know its a DK in this video, but hes a redguard, im a nord so i'll ahve 30% more health regen plus radiant aura with another 30% health/ life regen over 17 seconds.

I agree with most of the things here, the only thing i would like to add is that i think the stamplar strength and mobility is purifying ritual. with a bow slotted and purifying ritual i feel very mobily and cant be snared + speed bost. but with no means im an expert.

Thanks for all this useful information guys, waht do u guys think about a "regenerator templar" (cahnging some skills here, i wouldnt use dots, i think i would go snb with aa, ransack, shiwld bash.

EDIT: @duuude9192b14_ESO , maybe you can tell if this would work with a templar and do u still running this setup?

Radiant aura is crap, it's the same effect as using a potion (which you should be keeping up during battle) and it doesn't stack. Pretty much no one uses radiant aura.

Yup. You want your potion slot to be flexible not tied with a skill on your bar.

zornyan

Torbschka wrote: »

And the mage passive (20% stam/life) and dragon blood do stack with potions?

Yes they do.

Baaically except the green dragon blood one.

Basically any of the "major" named buffs can't stack.

zornyan

Minno wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

@Minno don't get me wrong I completly agree, even on my magicka build just spamming sweeps in hugely boring.

The problem is how our other class skills are lacking hugely.

For instance, blazing spear nerfed twice over the last month, also no stam morph, even useless for magicka builds now

Sum shield, well, yes it was op with a huge health build before, but that just needed a damage reduction, now it's just a wasted skill slot.

Javelin? Not that great in pvp, damage is too low and it'd uselsss against a dk or a sword and board user as it gets reflected.

Toppling charge? Numerous bugs, no stam morph, causes more deaths than anything due to the internal cooldown it has and the getting stuck bug.

And that's it for stamplar, dawns wrath skill line is essentially unusable, as is our healing tree, only purifying ritual for a purhe, which anyone can obtain purge for anyway.

zornyan wrote: »

Torbschka wrote: »

Wow, after reading all of this im feeling like "stop playing nord stamplar" lol, well, I think i will still try to make something work.. i just like my toon and dont wanna level again, furthermore, i havent lost any 1vs1 yet (ps4) with my current build.

Anyway, what do u guys think about this:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=Ch3HrsVRRp4

I know its a DK in this video, but hes a redguard, im a nord so i'll ahve 30% more health regen plus radiant aura with another 30% health/ life regen over 17 seconds.

I agree with most of the things here, the only thing i would like to add is that i think the stamplar strength and mobility is purifying ritual. with a bow slotted and purifying ritual i feel very mobily and cant be snared + speed bost. but with no means im an expert.

Thanks for all this useful information guys, waht do u guys think about a "regenerator templar" (cahnging some skills here, i wouldnt use dots, i think i would go snb with aa, ransack, shiwld bash.

EDIT: @duuude9192b14_ESO , maybe you can tell if this would work with a templar and do u still running this setup?

Radiant aura is crap, it's the same effect as using a potion (which you should be keeping up during battle) and it doesn't stack. Pretty much no one uses radiant aura.

Yup. You want your potion slot to be flexible not tied with a skill on your bar.

Tbh my regen is pretty high now anyways, I've gotten in the habit of when fighting someone half decent (or being jumped) to use a tri pot immediately, more for a small heal and a quick bit of stam regen buffage.

Minno

zornyan wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

@Minno don't get me wrong I completly agree, even on my magicka build just spamming sweeps in hugely boring.

The problem is how our other class skills are lacking hugely.

For instance, blazing spear nerfed twice over the last month, also no stam morph, even useless for magicka builds now

Sum shield, well, yes it was op with a huge health build before, but that just needed a damage reduction, now it's just a wasted skill slot.

Javelin? Not that great in pvp, damage is too low and it'd uselsss against a dk or a sword and board user as it gets reflected.

Toppling charge? Numerous bugs, no stam morph, causes more deaths than anything due to the internal cooldown it has and the getting stuck bug.

And that's it for stamplar, dawns wrath skill line is essentially unusable, as is our healing tree, only purifying ritual for a purhe, which anyone can obtain purge for anyway.

zornyan wrote: »

Torbschka wrote: »

Wow, after reading all of this im feeling like "stop playing nord stamplar" lol, well, I think i will still try to make something work.. i just like my toon and dont wanna level again, furthermore, i havent lost any 1vs1 yet (ps4) with my current build.

Anyway, what do u guys think about this:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=Ch3HrsVRRp4

I know its a DK in this video, but hes a redguard, im a nord so i'll ahve 30% more health regen plus radiant aura with another 30% health/ life regen over 17 seconds.

I agree with most of the things here, the only thing i would like to add is that i think the stamplar strength and mobility is purifying ritual. with a bow slotted and purifying ritual i feel very mobily and cant be snared + speed bost. but with no means im an expert.

Thanks for all this useful information guys, waht do u guys think about a "regenerator templar" (cahnging some skills here, i wouldnt use dots, i think i would go snb with aa, ransack, shiwld bash.

EDIT: @duuude9192b14_ESO , maybe you can tell if this would work with a templar and do u still running this setup?

Radiant aura is crap, it's the same effect as using a potion (which you should be keeping up during battle) and it doesn't stack. Pretty much no one uses radiant aura.

Yup. You want your potion slot to be flexible not tied with a skill on your bar.

Tbh my regen is pretty high now anyways, I've gotten in the habit of when fighting someone half decent (or being jumped) to use a tri pot immediately, more for a small heal and a quick bit of stam regen buffage.

I'm opposite, I save my pot use for a specific moment during when my enemy starts losing regen. I don't use tri pots, I use immovable speed pots with stamina regen. Mostly because at 14 seconds, you get CC immunity (way higher than the immovable brute skill.)and it adds 40% major expedition so I can run circles and stay behind my opponent during his regen (to avoid his staff/weapon regen attacks.)

Also use invisibility speed pots if a zerg happens to see me. Total troll status lol.

zornyan

Minno wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

@Minno don't get me wrong I completly agree, even on my magicka build just spamming sweeps in hugely boring.

The problem is how our other class skills are lacking hugely.

For instance, blazing spear nerfed twice over the last month, also no stam morph, even useless for magicka builds now

Sum shield, well, yes it was op with a huge health build before, but that just needed a damage reduction, now it's just a wasted skill slot.

Javelin? Not that great in pvp, damage is too low and it'd uselsss against a dk or a sword and board user as it gets reflected.

Toppling charge? Numerous bugs, no stam morph, causes more deaths than anything due to the internal cooldown it has and the getting stuck bug.

And that's it for stamplar, dawns wrath skill line is essentially unusable, as is our healing tree, only purifying ritual for a purhe, which anyone can obtain purge for anyway.

zornyan wrote: »

Torbschka wrote: »

Wow, after reading all of this im feeling like "stop playing nord stamplar" lol, well, I think i will still try to make something work.. i just like my toon and dont wanna level again, furthermore, i havent lost any 1vs1 yet (ps4) with my current build.

Anyway, what do u guys think about this:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=Ch3HrsVRRp4

I know its a DK in this video, but hes a redguard, im a nord so i'll ahve 30% more health regen plus radiant aura with another 30% health/ life regen over 17 seconds.

I agree with most of the things here, the only thing i would like to add is that i think the stamplar strength and mobility is purifying ritual. with a bow slotted and purifying ritual i feel very mobily and cant be snared + speed bost. but with no means im an expert.

Thanks for all this useful information guys, waht do u guys think about a "regenerator templar" (cahnging some skills here, i wouldnt use dots, i think i would go snb with aa, ransack, shiwld bash.

EDIT: @duuude9192b14_ESO , maybe you can tell if this would work with a templar and do u still running this setup?

Radiant aura is crap, it's the same effect as using a potion (which you should be keeping up during battle) and it doesn't stack. Pretty much no one uses radiant aura.

Yup. You want your potion slot to be flexible not tied with a skill on your bar.

Tbh my regen is pretty high now anyways, I've gotten in the habit of when fighting someone half decent (or being jumped) to use a tri pot immediately, more for a small heal and a quick bit of stam regen buffage.

I'm opposite, I save my pot use for a specific moment during when my enemy starts losing regen. I don't use tri pots, I use immovable speed pots with stamina regen. Mostly because at 14 seconds, you get CC immunity (way higher than the immovable brute skill.)and it adds 40% major expedition so I can run circles and stay behind my opponent during his regen (to avoid his staff/weapon regen attacks.)

Also use invisibility speed pots if a zerg happens to see me. Total troll status lol.

Never bothered with immovable pots when playing on console, probably something I'll try now I'm on pc people actually use cc on there

Minno

zornyan wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

@Minno don't get me wrong I completly agree, even on my magicka build just spamming sweeps in hugely boring.

The problem is how our other class skills are lacking hugely.

For instance, blazing spear nerfed twice over the last month, also no stam morph, even useless for magicka builds now

Sum shield, well, yes it was op with a huge health build before, but that just needed a damage reduction, now it's just a wasted skill slot.

Javelin? Not that great in pvp, damage is too low and it'd uselsss against a dk or a sword and board user as it gets reflected.

Toppling charge? Numerous bugs, no stam morph, causes more deaths than anything due to the internal cooldown it has and the getting stuck bug.

And that's it for stamplar, dawns wrath skill line is essentially unusable, as is our healing tree, only purifying ritual for a purhe, which anyone can obtain purge for anyway.

zornyan wrote: »

Torbschka wrote: »

Wow, after reading all of this im feeling like "stop playing nord stamplar" lol, well, I think i will still try to make something work.. i just like my toon and dont wanna level again, furthermore, i havent lost any 1vs1 yet (ps4) with my current build.

Anyway, what do u guys think about this:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=Ch3HrsVRRp4

I know its a DK in this video, but hes a redguard, im a nord so i'll ahve 30% more health regen plus radiant aura with another 30% health/ life regen over 17 seconds.

I agree with most of the things here, the only thing i would like to add is that i think the stamplar strength and mobility is purifying ritual. with a bow slotted and purifying ritual i feel very mobily and cant be snared + speed bost. but with no means im an expert.

Thanks for all this useful information guys, waht do u guys think about a "regenerator templar" (cahnging some skills here, i wouldnt use dots, i think i would go snb with aa, ransack, shiwld bash.

EDIT: @duuude9192b14_ESO , maybe you can tell if this would work with a templar and do u still running this setup?

Radiant aura is crap, it's the same effect as using a potion (which you should be keeping up during battle) and it doesn't stack. Pretty much no one uses radiant aura.

Yup. You want your potion slot to be flexible not tied with a skill on your bar.

Tbh my regen is pretty high now anyways, I've gotten in the habit of when fighting someone half decent (or being jumped) to use a tri pot immediately, more for a small heal and a quick bit of stam regen buffage.

I'm opposite, I save my pot use for a specific moment during when my enemy starts losing regen. I don't use tri pots, I use immovable speed pots with stamina regen. Mostly because at 14 seconds, you get CC immunity (way higher than the immovable brute skill.)and it adds 40% major expedition so I can run circles and stay behind my opponent during his regen (to avoid his staff/weapon regen attacks.)

Also use invisibility speed pots if a zerg happens to see me. Total troll status lol.

Never bothered with immovable pots when playing on console, probably something I'll try now I'm on pc people actually use cc on there

Alchemy is probably the more important crafting to learn. Easy to lvl now too.

BS, WW, and clothier are fine but at end game pvp Alchemy takes center stage in my opinion.

david31741

I've played my Magika Nord Templar to Rank 30 - it is not as easy to solo play as any other class imo. Skill is far more important than anything and certainly more than Race - but Nord is certainly the worst choice for a solo Magicka pvp templar.

For group pvp - you are fine - that 6% defense and cold resist ain't all that shabby in PvP - but nowhere near the PvP boon that other races have.

dodgehopper_ESO

blur wrote: »

Makes sweeping statement that Templar has the lowest burst. Even goes as far to say Stam Sorcs have more burst even though Stamina Sorc's DON'T HAVE 1 SINGLE STAM ABILITY outside weapon lines all 4 classes have. On the other hand Stamina Templars have Blinding Javelin which is instant cast with Empower, Major Brut, and over 4k Weapon Damage doing upwards of 8-10k and passives that proc on top of their class based Stam DPS abilities upwards of 5k a pop. Stam Sorcs do not have access to burst like this (via class abilities or passives). Neither do DKs outside of Ult.

Again you keep mentioning Sorc Shields as if they exclusively a problem for Templars only, whereas all 3 other classes get just as screwed. You are being dishonest and ignoring facts to intentionally mislead. I am not the only one who sees this.

You then grandstand that Templars don't have mobility yet they have perma Major Expedition through DW and a Charge that does around 5k damage and stuns players setting up jabs and or Wrecking Blow.

You are lying again about your stam sorc having more options for mobility than a Stamina Templar. You have Lightning Form, Templars have (class) charge, Sorcs dont have (class) charges and Templars dont have a ME buff (outside of DW/Alliance War), that makes them completely even. Regarding escape, only Magicka Sorcs can streak away, Stam will get 2 off and likely still be gap closed by a charge.

You call me a moron, yet you get on here and make the most ignorant and baseless arguments. I provide numbers and even the way to get those numbers and you just continue to ramble on while ignoring the facts. Actually Alcast does not agree with you and if you used his build (which you clearly don't) you would have similar numbers to me.

For the record, I never asked for any nerfs. Nor do I (or ever did) use Blazing Shield/Spears or Radiant Destruction.

You are a very dishonest person and reek of desperation.

Blur I think you're taking it a little too far here. I don't always agree with Zornyan but let me break down a response to some of what you're saying, either lacking fact or missing key points.

1) Stamina Sorcs have no Stamina abilities: False. Bound Armaments grants +Stamina, Minor Armor bonus, costs nothing, and gives a respectable heavy attack bonus. On just the heavy attack damage alone (+MaxStam+Heavy attack damage) alone its half as good as Igneous weapons and always on. Passives also supply +20% Stamina Regen, and Health regen, and allow for stacking of a Major Regen bonus in these areas by other means (potion or ability). Templars do not have that option. Sorc Passives also apply 5% cost redux on magic/stamina abilities, and 15% cost redux on Ultimates. Sorc Passives grant +2% weapon damage/Spell damage per sorc ability slotted. In most cases you will have at least 3 abilities on your bar. Boundless Storm grants 40% bonus to speed for the greatest duration of any ability, gives a nice dot that also procs a passive execute (disintegrate) and grants major armor/spell resist. Next you have overload which is absolutely amazing, and can dovetail nicely with the stamina favoring morph of exchange if you choose to use it. Bolt Escape grants you pbaoe cc + rapid escape + sucks up projectiles for 3 seconds. Crit Surge makes your weapon abilities better. While stam sorcs have no direct stamina attack (apart from Overload) they make up for it with a wide array of abilities that enhance directly every weapon ability you use. What do you prefer making all your weapon skills better, or clunky class skills that are better replaced by weapon skill line ones? I think the choice is obvious. There is a reason I think the Devs are starting to realize Templars need help, specifically Stamina ones. I get what you're saying but I think its just wrong.

2) Sorc Shields are only a problem because with respect to Sun Shield or Obsidian Shield, Sorc shields were less effected by multiple direct and indirect nerfs. For example I use to use Sun Shield all the time, and it was a core ability. Nowadays I'm more apt to use javelin ultimate for my aedric buffs on a temp. I've gone over this many times before, I don't want to repeat myself, but the damage component was supposedly offset by the dps output. The damage component is more or less nil now, but we still have terrible duration and sluggish animation, a problem throughout the Templar line.

3) I agree with you that Temps can borrow mobility from other skill lines, like blade cloak or mist form or expeditious retreat. Mist form is crap though and needs a rework, which doesn't bother me too much because I'm not a big fan of vampires (especially after the hordes of vampire dk's in early game). Where I disagree with you is the point that our charge is an alternative to mobility. That would be true if it worked as well as ambush. I don't like an ability that its a coin toss whether my attack bar will lock up or not... that gets you dead. Its also inferior to ambush even if it worked. It ends with an annoying cooldown upon strike, and doesn't have the associative snare that Lotus Fan has or speed or damage. Please don't talk about the Templar charge as an actual ability, because at this time it is not and I think even the Devs realize that. If I want to use a charge I'll personally use 2H or Shield skill lines for that, but that leaves me with the problem of having to find another Aedric ability to slot on the bar to access my passives.

4) I think from full bar to none you can get away with more than 2 streak/bolts but In practice you are probably right because a good Sorc is probably magicka dumping into Boundless, and maybe Crit Surge or exchange as well. I'd personally be using Boundless a lot more if it were me, and save bolt escape for cc/projectile catching. So I think you make a fair point here.

Either way lets ramp down the hostility guys. I've said all along I'm pretty happy with what they've done to Stamina Sorc. It is my hope that all classes can perform all roles at least more or less equally well (Tank, WDps, MDps, Heals), because that is the game we were pitched. As someone whose main templar went from M-Tank and S-Tank and M-Damage, S-Damage I have to say that I'm not happy at all with the tanking progress as the game has developed, and there are some definite flaws that have stuck with the class since beta testing. I also find it ironic that passive regenerations that once existed for the Templar (and were considered OP) now reside in other classes. I'm personally unhappy with the way they nerfed Restoring Light to only be useful within the class line, which thereby severely harmed Weapon Damage builds (Vigor/Rally mitigation). I have never been happy with some of the clunky elements of the class (animation lock, cast times, channels, cc-cooldown issues, etc). Templars have had a fair gripe since the beginning, its just a matter that Nightblades had more things to gripe about for along time. Now that Nightblades are in a good place I definitely think its time for Templar to be revisited, as a complete class, and not just as a Healer alone.

dodgehopper_ESO

david31741 wrote: »

I've played my Magika Nord Templar to Rank 30 - it is not as easy to solo play as any other class imo. Skill is far more important than anything and certainly more than Race - but Nord is certainly the worst choice for a solo Magicka pvp templar.

For group pvp - you are fine - that 6% defense and cold resist ain't all that shabby in PvP - but nowhere near the PvP boon that other races have.

On the issue of Nord Templars, I actually think they might be the best race to play a Templar healer in pvp. I don't know about other healers out there, but personally I don't find that my healing #'s are too weak, I find that the bigger issue is having sufficient survivability to fire out the heals the team needs. Its a careful balance and I think Nords are great at assisting with that mitigation between their 30% bonus to health regen, max health bonus, and 6% damage reduction. Cold resistance is just a semi-useful cherry on top.

dodgehopper_ESO

Minno wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

@Minno don't get me wrong I completly agree, even on my magicka build just spamming sweeps in hugely boring.

The problem is how our other class skills are lacking hugely.

For instance, blazing spear nerfed twice over the last month, also no stam morph, even useless for magicka builds now

Sum shield, well, yes it was op with a huge health build before, but that just needed a damage reduction, now it's just a wasted skill slot.

Javelin? Not that great in pvp, damage is too low and it'd uselsss against a dk or a sword and board user as it gets reflected.

Toppling charge? Numerous bugs, no stam morph, causes more deaths than anything due to the internal cooldown it has and the getting stuck bug.

And that's it for stamplar, dawns wrath skill line is essentially unusable, as is our healing tree, only purifying ritual for a purhe, which anyone can obtain purge for anyway.

zornyan wrote: »

Torbschka wrote: »

Wow, after reading all of this im feeling like "stop playing nord stamplar" lol, well, I think i will still try to make something work.. i just like my toon and dont wanna level again, furthermore, i havent lost any 1vs1 yet (ps4) with my current build.

Anyway, what do u guys think about this:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=Ch3HrsVRRp4

I know its a DK in this video, but hes a redguard, im a nord so i'll ahve 30% more health regen plus radiant aura with another 30% health/ life regen over 17 seconds.

I agree with most of the things here, the only thing i would like to add is that i think the stamplar strength and mobility is purifying ritual. with a bow slotted and purifying ritual i feel very mobily and cant be snared + speed bost. but with no means im an expert.

Thanks for all this useful information guys, waht do u guys think about a "regenerator templar" (cahnging some skills here, i wouldnt use dots, i think i would go snb with aa, ransack, shiwld bash.

EDIT: @duuude9192b14_ESO , maybe you can tell if this would work with a templar and do u still running this setup?

Radiant aura is crap, it's the same effect as using a potion (which you should be keeping up during battle) and it doesn't stack. Pretty much no one uses radiant aura.

Yup. You want your potion slot to be flexible not tied with a skill on your bar.

Tbh my regen is pretty high now anyways, I've gotten in the habit of when fighting someone half decent (or being jumped) to use a tri pot immediately, more for a small heal and a quick bit of stam regen buffage.

I'm opposite, I save my pot use for a specific moment during when my enemy starts losing regen. I don't use tri pots, I use immovable speed pots with stamina regen. Mostly because at 14 seconds, you get CC immunity (way higher than the immovable brute skill.)and it adds 40% major expedition so I can run circles and stay behind my opponent during his regen (to avoid his staff/weapon regen attacks.)

Also use invisibility speed pots if a zerg happens to see me. Total troll status lol.

I agree with this definitely. I quit using Immovable long ago. Potions do the job way better.

david31741

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

david31741 wrote: »

I've played my Magika Nord Templar to Rank 30 - it is not as easy to solo play as any other class imo. Skill is far more important than anything and certainly more than Race - but Nord is certainly the worst choice for a solo Magicka pvp templar.

For group pvp - you are fine - that 6% defense and cold resist ain't all that shabby in PvP - but nowhere near the PvP boon that other races have.

On the issue of Nord Templars, I actually think they might be the best race to play a Templar healer in pvp. I don't know about other healers out there, but personally I don't find that my healing #'s are too weak, I find that the bigger issue is having sufficient survivability to fire out the heals the team needs. Its a careful balance and I think Nords are great at assisting with that mitigation between their 30% bonus to health regen, max health bonus, and 6% damage reduction. Cold resistance is just a semi-useful cherry on top.

For a Healer in pvp I personally don't feel race makes any noticeable difference. For solo pvp/small group pvp.... minor things like race makes a noticeable difference. However, Nord did get a boost recently that made it more viable due to the passive change giving 10% increase in health.

Not having a race with bonuses to magika - as a magika templar (or magicka spec of any class) is very noticeable. We are talking 5-10% damage increase potential.

zornyan

We won't all agree on everything.

But one thing is widely agreed on is out of all classes stamplar is the very last in pvp and pve stam build, and magiplar is last from bottom in magicka pvp to dk.


I love templars, but it is seriously infuriating the constant nerf after nerf after nerf.

I do as good as I can in pvp, but it is so much easier to log on a nightblade or dk or sorc and own 5x easier.

For instance I was fighting some nb in the sewers earlier on my templar (new pc one) just grinding away and he ganked me, fought him off for a few minutes as my damage was terrible (bout 28k magicka and 1400 spell damage lol) got him to low health a couple times but when I charged in to use sweeps I got stuck as usual, he healed and then killed me.

On the flip side I've gone on my stam nb and it's easy, ambush/suprise attack/fear repeat dead.

dodgehopper_ESO

david31741 wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

david31741 wrote: »

I've played my Magika Nord Templar to Rank 30 - it is not as easy to solo play as any other class imo. Skill is far more important than anything and certainly more than Race - but Nord is certainly the worst choice for a solo Magicka pvp templar.

For group pvp - you are fine - that 6% defense and cold resist ain't all that shabby in PvP - but nowhere near the PvP boon that other races have.

On the issue of Nord Templars, I actually think they might be the best race to play a Templar healer in pvp. I don't know about other healers out there, but personally I don't find that my healing #'s are too weak, I find that the bigger issue is having sufficient survivability to fire out the heals the team needs. Its a careful balance and I think Nords are great at assisting with that mitigation between their 30% bonus to health regen, max health bonus, and 6% damage reduction. Cold resistance is just a semi-useful cherry on top.

For a Healer in pvp I personally don't feel race makes any noticeable difference. For solo pvp/small group pvp.... minor things like race makes a noticeable difference. However, Nord did get a boost recently that made it more viable due to the passive change giving 10% increase in health.

Not having a race with bonuses to magika - as a magika templar (or magicka spec of any class) is very noticeable. We are talking 5-10% damage increase potential.

I don't disagree, but if your goal is to heal in pvp, I don't really think 5-10% more damage or even heals are necessarily the most important things to be worrying about. A healer in pvp just needs to heal good enough to do the job, and survival/sustainability is actually better over and above that, because it means you can keep dishing out the heals (a Dead healer isn't healing).

dodgehopper_ESO

Atzel wrote: »

On Topic , Nord is bad race , use something with 10% max stamina/magicka.

Having more resource pools will make you do more damage and heal for more , because it makes your skills more powerfull.

This is more a problem with bad sweeping changes to the underlying game they've made. I'm definitely thinking their changes have been anti-tank to the extreme this year.

david31741

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

I don't disagree, but if your goal is to heal in pvp, I don't really think 5-10% more damage or even heals are necessarily the most important things to be worrying about. A healer in pvp just needs to heal good enough to do the job, and survival/sustainability is actually better over and above that, because it means you can keep dishing out the heals (a Dead healer isn't healing).

That's basically what I said regarding the group pvp healer role.

---

For non-ball pvp I don't see anyone playing "healer" in pvp. Exception being spammers looking to grind ranks.

Solo and small group pvp race can make a big dif especially these days where you need to burst to overcome everyone's defenses. Templar has the weakest burst potential and 5-10% dps makes a big difference. a 6% dam reduction in pvp is not noticeable especially on a templar which already has decent defensive options.

And yeah, I am a nord templar playing pvp since release - and I regret being Nord 100%. It wasn't a thought out choice. I just saved a name for a crafting mule - but who knew templar would be so much fun.

zornyan

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Atzel wrote: »

On Topic , Nord is bad race , use something with 10% max stamina/magicka.

Having more resource pools will make you do more damage and heal for more , because it makes your skills more powerfull.

This is more a problem with bad sweeping changes to the underlying game they've made. I'm definitely thinking their changes have been anti-tank to the extreme this year.

Pretty much zos hates heavy armor and tanks in general. Oh and dks and temps.

Like the buff to light armor, was it really needed? You're wearing cloth ffs and now my 5/1/1 light build gives me 17k odd armor buffed.

Really for wearing cloth? That's nearly what a heavy armor wearer has unbuffed.

Really they need to increase the hard cap on armor, make it so heavy armor is useful, bring it up to 75% from the current 50% (due to all the pen running around) give tanks a reason to want to wear heavy in pvp.