Weapon damage broken again? Puncturing sweeps vs Biting Jabs

Alcast

So, as I recently watched @blabafat video of magicka Templar doing Vet Arena I noticed one thing. His Puncturing sweeps hits harder than my Biting jabs although I have a stronger setup as I am Stamina.: Maybe it is just a Punctsweeps/Jabs issue, but I guess smth is broken again with weapon damage in general. Has somebody else noticed this?

Although my Stamplar has higher stats my Jabs do less damage than Magplars Puncturing sweeps.

Blabafat Magicka Templar unbuffed:
2620 Spelldamage and 36.6k magicka

Alcast Stamina Templar unbuffed:
3650 Weapon damage and 38,6k Stamina

We both have max CP aviable.

Magicka Templar Puncturing Sweeps damage on Lamia Queen: noncrit 3k/crit 5,3k
Stamina Templar Biting Jabs damage on Lamia Queen: noncrit 2,9k/crit 5,1k




@blabafat what is your buffed Puncturing Sweeps damage Tooltip?

HOW? @ZOS_GinaBruno

Will do some tests later today

UltimaJoe777

Perhaps he has better aim? The intended target of the strikes takes more damage than other targets also being hit.

Alcast

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Perhaps he has better aim? The intended target of the strikes takes more damage than other targets also being hit.

This is single Target dps.

Leifnier

Have a link to the video with yours for comparison?

Malmai

Alcast wrote: »

So, as I recently watched @blabafat video of magicka Templar doing Vet Arena I noticed one thing. His Puncturing sweeps hits harder than my Biting jabs although I have a stronger setup as I am Stamina.: Maybe it is just a Punctsweeps/Jabs issue, but I guess smth is broken again with weapon damage in general. Has somebody else noticed this?

Although my Stamplar has higher stats my Jabs do less damage than Magplars Puncturing sweeps.

Blabafat Magicka Templar unbuffed:
2620 Spelldamage and 36.6k magicka

Alcast Stamina Templar unbuffed:
3650 Weapon damage and 38,6k Stamina

We both have max CP aviable.

Magicka Templar Puncturing Sweeps damage on Lamia Queen: noncrit 3k/crit 5,3k
Stamina Templar Biting Jabs damage on Lamia Queen: noncrit 2,9k/crit 5,1k

@blabafat what is your buffed Puncturing Sweeps damage Tooltip?

HOW? @ZOS_GinaBruno

Will do some tests later today

Stamina jabs should hit way harder since you got no heal or deal equal damage to all enemies in the cone...

Kryank

are they both classed as the same type of damage? ie. both physical. or is one physical and one magic (or something like that), as different resistances could play a part.

only a guess though as i dont play temp.

Alcast

Leifnier wrote: »

Have a link to the video with yours for comparison?

http://imgur.com/5FckX4q

Kryank wrote: »

are they both classed as the same type of damage? ie. both physical. or is one physical and one magic (or something like that), as different resistances could play a part.

only a guess though as i dont play temp.

its not resistances, he hits harder on ALL bosses. Unless all bosses have like 20k more physical than spell resistance.

altemriel

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Perhaps he has better aim? The intended target of the strikes takes more damage than other targets also being hit.

or maybe he has some better amor set

Alcast

altemriel wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Perhaps he has better aim? The intended target of the strikes takes more damage than other targets also being hit.

or maybe he has some better amor set

My stats are higher than his due to m being Stamina...its not the gear..we both are top geared

Nifty2g

Here @Alcast because I'm fully geared up atm and can post stuff for you


Give me a sec to get to round 3










Buffed


Non Buff

Alcast

@Nifty I go jog a round and then I will log to go check again too. You can do check on first boss also, doesnt matter what boss.

UltimaJoe777

Alcast wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Perhaps he has better aim? The intended target of the strikes takes more damage than other targets also being hit.

This is single Target dps.

Doesn't mean the attack wont hit if you didn't actually target the enemy lol

Malmai

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Perhaps he has better aim? The intended target of the strikes takes more damage than other targets also being hit.

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Perhaps he has better aim? The intended target of the strikes takes more damage than other targets also being hit.

This is single Target dps.

Doesn't mean the attack wont hit if you didn't actually target the enemy lol

Who are? what kinda dumb questions are this? June 2015 ok...

Naslu

the reason behind that is the same like the issue with overload on stamsorcs, in core the jabs are still a kind of magicka abillity (if jabs are morphed on stamina they still can be negated and you have to break free ... lol - a stam morph negated ... still laughing...), and in that way they profit from several cp passives that are magickal exclusive (yes a stam morph is supported by magickal cp passives - again laughing...).
if you do deep theorycraft of japs, then you will discover that there is a massive difference (like on overload stam sorc) in the complete calculation of resulting damage.
here in your example given you both are close to similar numbers but with a huge difference in weapon/spell damage and ressources, but his magickal jabs profit by trauma and spell erosion which is giving him with less base values more resulting damage.

same for oveload of sorc:
base damage calculated by highest ressource (here : cause its ultimate) but its still elemental damage (so buffed by elemental expert and (wtf) spell erosion - no matters if you are stam sorc.

NiclasFridholm

Noticed the same myself: My Magicka Templars Sweeps hits for 6.8 Fully buffed and critting. My Stamplar way less, now using My stamplar as a healtank...

willymchilybily

May be a dumb question i also don't have a templar, but is it the passives?

burning light passive, does this also scale more with magicka being magicka damage? though i cant recognise the proc, buff on bar. and only 25% up time, unless jabs is proc'ing it, dont know if jabs is considered dot like flurry or not?
illuminate procs minor sorcery (5% spell damage - though alone wont account for it)

also in that particular screen shot he just used entropy? so empowered 20% as well as spell damage buff. but i see no glowing arms and if its consistently happening... hmm.

I'll just favorite and leave this to the smart guys.

Nifty2g

@Alcast I added all the images in, however remember Puncturing Sweep benefits from higher Magicka Pool I assume this is the same for Biting Jabs and Stamina Pool.

Leifnier

@Alcast is he using anythimg to reduce their spell resust? And are you using anything to reduce armor? (Healthbar isn't cracked, so I'm going to assume not)

Alcast

Nifty2g wrote: »

Here @Alcast because I'm fully geared up atm and can post stuff for you


Give me a sec to get to round 3










Buffed


Non Buff

oh boy this is so broken, what is your CP setup on the blue parts? So I can do the same as you just with physical dmg so better to compare

Nifty2g

Alcast wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Here @Alcast because I'm fully geared up atm and can post stuff for you


Give me a sec to get to round 3










Buffed


Non Buff

oh boy this is so broken, what is your CP setup on the blue parts? So I can do the same as you just with physical dmg so better to compare

96 Thaum, 71 Elfborn

Kas

any chance it's a shadow vs non-shadow issue? (don't think so, looks liek thief on nifty's pic)

Bashev

I think that the you do not have points in Thaum @Alcast Templ and DKs are not like the NBs where their stamina skills are based on physical damage. That is why they should use weapon skills. ZoS logic there.

Kas

Bashev wrote: »

I think that the you do not have points in Thaum @Alcast Templ and DKs are not like the NBs where their stamina skills are based on physical damage. That is why they should use weapon skills. ZoS logic there.

biting jabs _used_ to be physical. maybe that's what broke in the patch?
btw, i did my first run with 100might on a magicka templar, simply by missclicking ^^

so it might be doable for you as well - even with 0 cp in your main stat and you just never noticed. have run run any trials and noticed a difference compared to pre-patch?

however, it would be really bad if jabs was magicka again - especially when you also wanted to use WW.
but then again, there is also burning light...

Alcast

Bashev wrote: »

I think that the you do not have points in Thaum @Alcast Templ and DKs are not like the NBs where their stamina skills are based on physical damage. That is why they should use weapon skills. ZoS logic there.

Nifty > 96 Thaum, 71 Elfborn
Me > 96 Mighty, 71 Precise strikes

I know the difference of magic vs stamin, its not that I am a nab xD

Detector

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/217713/weapon-damage-is-broken

Bashev

Alcast wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

I think that the you do not have points in Thaum @Alcast Templ and DKs are not like the NBs where their stamina skills are based on physical damage. That is why they should use weapon skills. ZoS logic there.

Nifty > 96 Thaum, 71 Elfborn
Me > 96 Mighty, 71 Precise strikes

I know the difference of magic vs stamin, its not that I am a nab xD

Then you loose 24% damage increase I guess if biting jabs do magic damage.

Alcast

Nifty2g wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Here @Alcast because I'm fully geared up atm and can post stuff for you


Give me a sec to get to round 3










Buffed


Non Buff

oh boy this is so broken, what is your CP setup on the blue parts? So I can do the same as you just with physical dmg so better to compare

96 Thaum, 71 Elfborn

okay
96 Mighty and 71 Precise Strikes

so yes, smth is literally broken lol, despite me having more power Jabs is just crap compared to Sweeps...
does elfborn work correctly, or does it also only give half the inc crit dmg it should like precise strikes? Even then, this does not really explain the low dmg.

URL for big pic > http://i.imgur.com/czZrEsj.jpg




Tooltip seems to be "right" but dmg is broken..gg

willymchilybily

Alcast wrote: »

so yes, smth is literally broken lol, despite me having more power Jabs is just crap compared to Sweeps...
does elfborn work correctly, or does it also only give half the inc crit dmg it should like precise strikes? Even then, this does not really explain the low dmg.

that bug should have been fixed in orsinium patch (2.2.4)

Ritual

Precise Strikes: Fixed an issue where this passive was not correctly increasing the critical value of healing or abilities that did not use Physical Damage (such as Vigor, or Stamina morphs of class abilities). We also fixed an issue where this passive was increasing critical damage and healing less than intended. This passive will also now properly increase healing from effects that scale off Stamina and Weapon Critical (such as Rally).

Alcast

Naslu wrote: »

the reason behind that is the same like the issue with overload on stamsorcs, in core the jabs are still a kind of magicka abillity (if jabs are morphed on stamina they still can be negated and you have to break free ... lol - a stam morph negated ... still laughing...), and in that way they profit from several cp passives that are magickal exclusive (yes a stam morph is supported by magickal cp passives - again laughing...).
if you do deep theorycraft of japs, then you will discover that there is a massive difference (like on overload stam sorc) in the complete calculation of resulting damage.
here in your example given you both are close to similar numbers but with a huge difference in weapon/spell damage and ressources, but his magickal jabs profit by trauma and spell erosion which is giving him with less base values more resulting damage.

same for oveload of sorc:
base damage calculated by highest ressource (here : cause its ultimate) but its still elemental damage (so buffed by elemental expert and (wtf) spell erosion - no matters if you are stam sorc.

but Jabs is Physical damage type and should be buffed by mighty. Will check again if it infact does or not.

Bashev

Alcast wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Here @Alcast because I'm fully geared up atm and can post stuff for you


Give me a sec to get to round 3










Buffed


Non Buff

oh boy this is so broken, what is your CP setup on the blue parts? So I can do the same as you just with physical dmg so better to compare

96 Thaum, 71 Elfborn

okay
96 Mighty and 71 Precise Strikes

so yes, smth is literally broken lol, despite me having more power Jabs is just crap compared to Sweeps...
does elfborn work correctly, or does it also only give half the inc crit dmg it should like precise strikes? Even then, this does not really explain the low dmg.

URL for big pic > http://i.imgur.com/czZrEsj.jpg




Tooltip seems to be "right" but dmg is broken..gg

When did ZoS change biting jabs to physical damage?

Alcast

willymchilybily wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

so yes, smth is literally broken lol, despite me having more power Jabs is just crap compared to Sweeps...
does elfborn work correctly, or does it also only give half the inc crit dmg it should like precise strikes? Even then, this does not really explain the low dmg.

that bug should have been fixed in orsinium patch (2.2.4)

Ritual

Precise Strikes: Fixed an issue where this passive was not correctly increasing the critical value of healing or abilities that did not use Physical Damage (such as Vigor, or Stamina morphs of class abilities). We also fixed an issue where this passive was increasing critical damage and healing less than intended. This passive will also now properly increase healing from effects that scale off Stamina and Weapon Critical (such as Rally).

that pic I made is from orsinium now..still smth is broken. so prcise strikes should now give the correcct amount of inc crit dmg as from patchnotes right?