Nord Templar - Should i reroll?

Torbschka · November 2015

Hey guys,

I'm V12 now and enjoying everything so far. well, i planed on playing a character for good 1vs1, 1vsx, to clarify, something which can put out "ok" dmg and wont die instantly.

My idea was the following:

Stamplar:

5 Reactive Set / Armor Master + Unstopable
1x Molag Kena
3x Night Mother
3x Agility

+ Vampire Undead Passive + Empowering Sweep + Nord Passive

I thought it would be a good idea to do this as a nord, because the empowering sweep + at least the reactive route stacks with the nord passive.

Have any1 tested this setup or something similar, will i achieve enough regen / weapon dmg? I even considered playing as a magicka templar with reactive set, but dunno ^^
Are 30k Armor worth it in pvp (the armor master setup)?

I dont want to go full classcannon, i dont think it fits the templar very well, because we cant cloak / blink and have bad escapes, so i tried to do anything with a good mix of staying power and dmg ^^?

NedicWildling · November 2015

My main is a Nord Templar i've been using since launch and tbh i barely notice the 6% damage mitigation. I have an Imperial Templar which I like much better, no doubt you could make it a stamina templar work as a nord, but it's always good to have some stamina percent (Orc, Imperial, Redguard) Should you reroll? That's up to you, you can build to the Nord strength's like Health Recovery via Orgnum's Scales and then go from there, but you will always lack behind in sustain and raw stats.

Minno · November 2015

The nord passives support a tanky build.
Templar passives have tanky aspects to them.
So its actually a nice little setup on paper (you will need to test it out

).

As a stamina build, you will lose access to Templar healing passives (they only work with Templar healing and those heals are strengthened by magic.) But I think the nord's recovery passive and reduced dmg give you a better advantage for pvp tanking than redquard, orc, imperial, etc for a stamina Templar.

Your weakness will be stamina recovery, no doubt about it. Might want to get sets to strengthen this area or go full into dmg reducing sets to test it out.

caeliusstarbreaker · November 2015

As stated, you're gonna lose that max stam multiplier and a stam recov multiplier.
Unless you go about building for more health recov, the passive is meh.
And I wouldn't go running into reactive armor, and trying to be super tanky since we don't have passives that dk have that allow us to get away with a little less regen.

If you want to reroll, I suggest going redguard, adrenaline rush, same max stam multiplier as imperial, bonus 9% regen all beef up your sustain really well.
This is strictly from a min max perspective.

If you don't want to reroll cause, screw it you're a m-fing Nord bring it bruh!!!.....
Then I suggest going 5 hunding 4 morkuldin ( 5 medium .. And then whatever) with serpent stone to get your regen above 2k+ and then focus toward your wpn dmg. Vamp or WW is up to you. I would also recommend leaning toward a sword and board animation cancel build play style as you can get more leveraged pvp dps from canceling than a channel spam build where to stay at the top of your dps pool you have to hit with all 4 jabs, moving away from jab dps leaves you a little less vulnerable, when combined with shuffle , focus, nord passive and blood spawn if you switch your build around a little .. Will give you little survivability edge.

Are the passives game breaking? No
Will you be min maxed to the bone? No
Is leveling new toons an annoyance? Yes

eliisra · November 2015

Playing tanky templar for 1v1 or 1vX is not going to be easy. You will end up very frustrated.

Why you think there's no templars at all participating in major guilds small scale/duelling events these days?

Mainly because meta is all about burst, mobility and animation cancelling. Templar tank build(or any templar build) cant do any of it, just soak more dmg. Competitive PvP is all about sorcs and NB.

Sounds like a nice build for casual PvE tanking like dungeons and okay in groups. Reactive sets makes you much harder to kill, since most kill/burst is delivered when you're cc'ed. But you're lacking the burst and sustain, to overcome battle spirit.

Also playing vamp...have fun getting instakilled by Camo Hunter sneak attacks every third minute.

Minno · November 2015

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

As stated, you're gonna lose that max stam multiplier and a stam recov multiplier.
Unless you go about building for more health recov, the passive is meh.
And I wouldn't go running into reactive armor, and trying to be super tanky since we don't have passives that dk have that allow us to get away with a little less regen.

If you want to reroll, I suggest going redguard, adrenaline rush, same max stam multiplier as imperial, bonus 9% regen all beef up your sustain really well.
This is strictly from a min max perspective.

If you don't want to reroll cause, screw it you're a m-fing Nord bring it bruh!!!.....
Then I suggest going 5 hunding 4 morkuldin ( 5 medium .. And then whatever) with serpent stone to get your regen above 2k+ and then focus toward your wpn dmg. Vamp or WW is up to you. I would also recommend leaning toward a sword and board animation cancel build play style as you can get more leveraged pvp dps from canceling than a channel spam build where to stay at the top of your dps pool you have to hit with all 4 jabs, moving away from jab dps leaves you a little less vulnerable, when combined with shuffle , focus, nord passive and blood spawn if you switch your build around a little .. Will give you little survivability edge.

Are the passives game breaking? No
Will you be min maxed to the bone? No
Is leveling new toons an annoyance? Yes

^this.
I wouldn't level a new toon. Why? Metas change so much its not worth wasting another month to level a character.

It will be tough road OP, but at the end of the day you contributed more to templars than those that rerolled NB waiting for temps to be powerhouses. And to that you deserve the above constructive criticism! Don't take it lightly, embrace it.

Minno · November 2015

Also, regarding WW or vamp, seems wearwolf might be better from a stamina regen and nord emersion (hairy nords; how else can they repel cold lol.). With Templar ultimates being semi lack luster in pvp, you wouldn't miss any of them in order to slot transformation on your bar for the regen passive. (Though empowering sweeps is too important to give up as a tank build. )

Strider_Roshin · November 2015

I'm a stamina Nord Nightblade DPS, and in PvE you'll be better off with an imperial but just barely. For PvP however I believe Nords are king.

caeliusstarbreaker · November 2015

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

I'm a stamina Nord Nightblade DPS, and in PvE you'll be better off with an imperial but just barely. For PvP however I believe Nords are king.

From a min max perspective.... No
actually from any perspective. No
Unless your entire build revolves around health regen

Torbschka · November 2015

Thanks a lot to all of u guys for your answers!

U know what, i give a *** and continue playing as my nord templar and see how far i can go, i mean, if i have fun i have done everything right i guess, plus i just like nords the most from a "rpg" reason (not because of skyrim^^)

Maybe i will try a lot of different setups, maybe health regen / tanky, dunno. I will see, anyway, thank you guys!

Strider_Roshin · November 2015

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

I'm a stamina Nord Nightblade DPS, and in PvE you'll be better off with an imperial but just barely. For PvP however I believe Nords are king.

From a min max perspective.... No
actually from any perspective. No
Unless your entire build revolves around health regen

Actually my build revolves around winning. So far it's been quite successful :-)

Baconlad · November 2015

All you need is high magic regen, high (50k+) health. All cps in bastion and spell crit damage trees, and BAM...you have a very good blazing shield build...not very good solo but with a group, you will *** dudes off, especially when they see their death recap. Get that 10k crit on a blazing followed by the 3k crit on burning light? Throw on imovable brute, now you can rez your team while getting hammered! It's fun....

dodgehopper_ESO · November 2015

I wouldn't go Vampire on a Nord unless you are a magicka build personally. The sneak speed is great, the damage resistance bonus is nice, but the problem as I see it is that the Vampire trait that vastly reduces your health regen essentially ruins the Robust trait to the point of worthlessness.

Torbschka · November 2015

Baconlad wrote: »

All you need is high magic regen, high (50k+) health. All cps in bastion and spell crit damage trees, and BAM...you have a very good blazing shield build...not very good solo but with a group, you will *** dudes off, especially when they see their death recap. Get that 10k crit on a blazing followed by the 3k crit on burning light? Throw on imovable brute, now you can rez your team while getting hammered! It's fun....

why isnt this worth for 1vs1, i mean, nightblades would mostly kill themself? what sets should i focus on?

is this worth it, have any1 tested it?

whats about a lifereg nord with orgnums scale and some weapon dmg, can this work or is lifereg just useless?

ItsRejectz · November 2015

I run a nord templar and I run a tanky regen build And I love it. With 30% nord racial health recovery, using radiant aura will give you another 30% health and stamina recovery for 12 seconds. That's a lot of health recovery there without much effort, so put a bit into it.
I run 5 willows path,1 engine guardian, 3 oblivions foe, 3 agility on my nord templar, 5 medium, 1 heavy, 1 light.. buffed I'm at around, 3k stam regen 2k health regen and 1.5k magika regen buffed, them 2.3k weapon damage on sword and board bar and I think 2.7k weapon damage on my 2H.

That's a 2k tick of health every 2 seconds, not including ticks you can get from rally/vigor or basically any other heals. Its extremely hard to kill.. I prefer this to orgnums as I have a lot more stam and magika regen, this is great as running out of resources is almost always 100% death

Torbschka · November 2015

ItsRejectz wrote: »

I run a nord templar and I run a tanky regen build And I love it. With 30% nord racial health recovery, using radiant aura will give you another 30% health and stamina recovery for 12 seconds. That's a lot of health recovery there without much effort, so put a bit into it.
I run 5 willows path,1 engine guardian, 3 oblivions foe, 3 agility on my nord templar, 5 medium, 1 heavy, 1 light.. buffed I'm at around, 3k stam regen 2k health regen and 1.5k magika regen buffed, them 2.3k weapon damage on sword and board bar and I think 2.7k weapon damage on my 2H.

That's a 2k tick of health every 2 seconds, not including ticks you can get from rally/vigor or basically any other heals. Its extremely hard to kill.. I prefer this to orgnums as I have a lot more stam and magika regen, this is great as running out of resources is almost always 100% death

wow, thanks for this answer! have you spent all points into stamina or a mix of health and stam? furthermore, did u invested in the cp passive, which increases the life reg? also any enchants with life reg?

Well, im concerned about the weapon dmg, i dont know how u play it, but for me i was considering something like auto attack - ransack - shield bash combo, are u able to kill stuff with 2.3k weapon dmg on snb bar? do u running with werewolf?

sorry for all those question, but this sounds very impressive ^^ i was planning something similiar, but with the morkuldin set, do u think that this could work without willows path?

blur · November 2015

Nord is great. You have extra health and 6% damage reduction that stacks with other gimmicks like sets and skills. Plus you are one of the "manly" races.

Strider_Roshin · November 2015

blur wrote: »

Nord is great. You have extra health and 6% damage reduction that stacks with other gimmicks like sets and skills. Plus you are one of the "manly" races.

Lol one of? We fight drunk for fun. I'd say we're the manliness race out there.

blur · November 2015

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

blur wrote: »

Nord is great. You have extra health and 6% damage reduction that stacks with other gimmicks like sets and skills. Plus you are one of the "manly" races.

Lol one of? We fight drunk for fun. I'd say we're the manliness race out there.

Well there is Orc... they are about as manly as you can get

Strider_Roshin · November 2015

blur wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

blur wrote: »

Nord is great. You have extra health and 6% damage reduction that stacks with other gimmicks like sets and skills. Plus you are one of the "manly" races.

Lol one of? We fight drunk for fun. I'd say we're the manliness race out there.

Well there is Orc... they are about as manly as you can get

But orcs aren't men; they're denatured elves. I think calling them beastly would be more appropriate.

Mumyo · November 2015

im hoenst with you, orcs are the better nords and nords are really really bad, especially for templars.

Templar is also not the best choice, the game is ruled by nb and sorc.

blur · November 2015

Mumyo wrote: »

im hoenst with you, orcs are the better nords and nords are really really bad, especially for templars.

Templar is also not the best choice, the game is ruled by nb and sorc.

Probably the most uninformative post you could get.

Nords are fine, as are Templars, particularly stam.

zornyan · November 2015

blur wrote: »

Mumyo wrote: »

im hoenst with you, orcs are the better nords and nords are really really bad, especially for templars.

Templar is also not the best choice, the game is ruled by nb and sorc.

Probably the most uninformative post you could get.

Nords are fine, as are Templars, particularly stam.

Stam templar

Lowest dps in pve
Lowest burst in pvp
Lowest self healing
No mobility

Yeah their fine..

Strider_Roshin · November 2015

As a Nord Nightblade, my DPS is always better than my opponent's in PvP. Wanna hear my secret?

Their dead and I'm not ;-)

As a Nord, you can still have fantastic damage output and at the same time be a royal pain to kill.

Strider_Roshin · November 2015

On a side night get rid of being a vampire. As a Nord your health regen is like having vigor constantly active if you use regen drinks.

blur · November 2015

zornyan wrote: »

blur wrote: »

Mumyo wrote: »

im hoenst with you, orcs are the better nords and nords are really really bad, especially for templars.

Templar is also not the best choice, the game is ruled by nb and sorc.

Probably the most uninformative post you could get.

Nords are fine, as are Templars, particularly stam.

Stam templar

Lowest dps in pve
Lowest burst in pvp
Lowest self healing
No mobility

Yeah their fine..

Lowest burst? They have more burst than Stamina Sorcs... not to mention over 4k weapon damage at all times when geared properly. Oh and let's not forget a ranged ability that does upwards of 8k which has a knockdown and 3s CC. They also have a passive that procs about 4.6-5k damage everytime you do damage with your Aedric abilities.

Lowest self-healing? Have you ever used Repentance, Rally and Vigor together? I have 0 problems getting full health. If I were a Nord it would be even easier. Repentance is one of the best skills in the game. Not to mention having Purify and Channeled Focus which brings your magic resist over 20k and adds a ton of armor while regenerating your magicka...

No mobility? They have access to Toppling Charge (templar only), Crit Rush/Stampede, Retreating Maneuvers, and Quick Cloak. Most good Stamina Templars run DW so there is no reason NOT to make use of Quick Cloak. Also having 2h on your 2nd bar gives you Stampede which you would be foolish not to use as it sets people up to get jabbed.

Yeah they really have the lowest burst, self healing and 0 mobility... /sarcasm

Before you continue to be a fountain of misinformation, you should stop parroting other ignorant people and learn how the class works. Templars are insanely good if you know how to play them.

zornyan · November 2015

blur wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

blur wrote: »

Mumyo wrote: »

im hoenst with you, orcs are the better nords and nords are really really bad, especially for templars.

Templar is also not the best choice, the game is ruled by nb and sorc.

Probably the most uninformative post you could get.

Nords are fine, as are Templars, particularly stam.

Stam templar

Lowest dps in pve
Lowest burst in pvp
Lowest self healing
No mobility

Yeah their fine..

Lowest burst? They have more burst than Stamina Sorcs... not to mention over 4k weapon damage at all times when geared properly. Oh and let's not forget a ranged ability that does upwards of 8k which has a knockdown and 3s CC. They also have a passive that procs about 4.6-5k damage everytime you do damage with your Aedric abilities.

Lowest self-healing? Have you ever used Repentance, Rally and Vigor together? I have 0 problems getting full health. If I were a Nord it would be even easier. Repentance is one of the best skills in the game. Not to mention having Purify and Channeled Focus which brings your magic resist over 20k and adds a ton of armor while regenerating your magicka...

No mobility? They have access to Toppling Charge (templar only), Crit Rush/Stampede, Retreating Maneuvers, and Quick Cloak. Most good Stamina Templars run DW so there is no reason NOT to make use of Quick Cloak. Also having 2h on your 2nd bar gives you Stampede which you would be foolish not to use as it sets people up to get jabbed.

Yeah they really have the lowest burst, self healing and 0 mobility... /sarcasm

Before you continue to be a fountain of misinformation, you should stop parroting other ignorant people and learn how the class works. Templars are insanely good if you know how to play them.

Really toppling charge is MOBILITY? Jesus Christ please tell me how that works as an effective escape like cloak/bolt escape. ...

Oh wait tell me how good toppling is on a Stamina build. ..

Burst yes, lowest burst, you know an instant hitting hard attack, channeled focus is the worst armor resist buff in the game, it only last 8 seconds, others like sorc and DK last 20 seconds and give other benefits.

You listed a bunch of skills that aren't templar so their irrelevant.

Stam sorcs have more healing than templars, as crit surge works along side rally and vigor (again not class skills) they also lose all restoring tree skills and passives being stam, so have the least amount of healing buffs.

DK for instance can use shield + coagulating blood to get major and minor mending for increased healing, a templar gets nothing.

A stam sorc will have the same, if not more base damage than a stam templar, not to mention they also get +8% stam so will have a ton more stamina too.

Stam templars have 2 class skills, biting jabs CAN do great damage, but you rely on 25% chance of proc, and the fact that in pvp 90% of the time a minimum of one hit misses or doesn't count as landing, also biting jabs doesn't apply 140% damage to shields, so it doesn't even tickle shields.

In a real world scenario wrecking blow does more damage than jabs.

Repentance is only useful if bodies are around, it's useless 1v1, it's useful for trash mobs, that's about it.

Also a stam sorc will have a base 20% buff to stam and hp recovery, that stacks with 20% from potions, a templar can only get 10% if they slot a skill.

blur · November 2015

zornyan wrote: »

blur wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

blur wrote: »

Mumyo wrote: »

im hoenst with you, orcs are the better nords and nords are really really bad, especially for templars.

Templar is also not the best choice, the game is ruled by nb and sorc.

Probably the most uninformative post you could get.

Nords are fine, as are Templars, particularly stam.

Stam templar

Lowest dps in pve
Lowest burst in pvp
Lowest self healing
No mobility

Yeah their fine..

Lowest burst? They have more burst than Stamina Sorcs... not to mention over 4k weapon damage at all times when geared properly. Oh and let's not forget a ranged ability that does upwards of 8k which has a knockdown and 3s CC. They also have a passive that procs about 4.6-5k damage everytime you do damage with your Aedric abilities.

Lowest self-healing? Have you ever used Repentance, Rally and Vigor together? I have 0 problems getting full health. If I were a Nord it would be even easier. Repentance is one of the best skills in the game. Not to mention having Purify and Channeled Focus which brings your magic resist over 20k and adds a ton of armor while regenerating your magicka...

No mobility? They have access to Toppling Charge (templar only), Crit Rush/Stampede, Retreating Maneuvers, and Quick Cloak. Most good Stamina Templars run DW so there is no reason NOT to make use of Quick Cloak. Also having 2h on your 2nd bar gives you Stampede which you would be foolish not to use as it sets people up to get jabbed.

Yeah they really have the lowest burst, self healing and 0 mobility... /sarcasm

Before you continue to be a fountain of misinformation, you should stop parroting other ignorant people and learn how the class works. Templars are insanely good if you know how to play them.

Really toppling charge is MOBILITY? Jesus Christ please tell me how that works as an effective escape like cloak/bolt escape. ...

Oh wait tell me how good toppling is on a Stamina build. ..

Burst yes, lowest burst, you know an instant hitting hard attack, channeled focus is the worst armor resist buff in the game, it only last 8 seconds, others like sorc and DK last 20 seconds and give other benefits.

You listed a bunch of skills that aren't templar so their irrelevant.

Stam sorcs have more healing than templars, as crit surge works along side rally and vigor (again not class skills) they also lose all restoring tree skills and passives being stam, so have the least amount of healing buffs.

DK for instance can use shield + coagulating blood to get major and minor mending for increased healing, a templar gets nothing.

A stam sorc will have the same, if not more base damage than a stam templar, not to mention they also get +8% stam so will have a ton more stamina too.

Stam templars have 2 class skills, biting jabs CAN do great damage, but you rely on 25% chance of proc, and the fact that in pvp 90% of the time a minimum of one hit misses or doesn't count as landing, also biting jabs doesn't apply 140% damage to shields, so it doesn't even tickle shields.

In a real world scenario wrecking blow does more damage than jabs.

Repentance is only useful if bodies are around, it's useless 1v1, it's useful for trash mobs, that's about it.

Also a stam sorc will have a base 20% buff to stam and hp recovery, that stacks with 20% from potions, a templar can only get 10% if they slot a skill.

First off your argument is all over the place, you should really think before you type.

So a charge isn't mobility? Maybe you should offer a definition to what mobility means. Oh wait, let me do that for you:

mobility
/məʊˈbɪlɪtɪ/
noun
1.
the ability to move physically: a knee operation has restricted his mobility, mobility is part of physical education

Please explain to me how a charge is not mobile. Let alone why you chose to pigeonhole my response into one skill "toppling charge" when I mentioned Quick Cloak, Stampede/Crit Rush, and Retreating Maneuvers? Did you do this because you don't have a leg to stand on? Please explain how Quick Cloak, Stampede, and RM are also not mobility? Also how do you go from saying "stam temps have No mobility" to "effective escape like cloak/bolt escape."? Which is it? They either have no mobility or now we are comparing skills to other classes? You reek of desperation.

To answer your ridiculous question about Toppling Charge, it works fine. It's a ranged gap closer that uses magicka, something I rarely use outside of Purify and Total Dark. But seeing that you are trying to pick apart my response ala Strawman, let me be clear, I did not say TC was the most optimal, nor did I say it was for damage. I simply said it was one of many forms of mobility and it works for Stam Temps. Again, you said "Stam Temps have 0 mobility." You could not be more wrong.

Now onto burst... Please explain to me how a Stamina Sorc has more burst than a Stamina Templar. You seem to have some secret knowledge that pro Stam Sorcs like Xael and Fengrush don't. Stamina Sorcs outside of Lightning Form have no innate skills that function as damage for a stamina build. Streak is Magicka based, and the only other ability the majority of Stamina Sorcs use is Crit Surge which is a buff. That said, all the damage from a Stamina Sorc comes from 2h abilities like WB, Crit Rush, and Executioner. When on the secondary bar it's Steel Tornado and Caltrops (for those who have it unlocked). Not all stamina sorcs take Bound Armaments. Also not all Stamina Sorcs use an Overload bar. Some prefer Flawless Dawnbreaker and/or Atronach.

Templars have Stamina based abilities that not only scale off weapon damage AND stamina, but they have passives that work alongside them. Take for example Burning Light which procs for over 5k damage while jabbing or chucking spears. They also have a ranged ability that does anywhere from 8-10k damage when buffed. So no, a Stamina Sorc is nowhere near as bursty as a Stamina Templar. In fact it's fair to say a Stamina Sorc has nothing unique to add to their damage outside of an execute passive that requires you to be in close proximity with your boundless storm.

Also why the hell are you are even mentioning shields? This applies to all stam dps classes. Do you think a Stamina Sorc has some type of special attack (one that other classes lack) that goes through shield? Are you really this bad at debating that you think mentioning shields somehow singles out Templars and leaves Nightblades, Sorcs, and DK's attacks outside of the equation? Again, go back and read my response on Stam Sorc DPS. There is no damn way you play a high end Stam Sorc and make these weak arguments. Unless you are so filled with pride that you have become given over to myopia.

You said in a real world scenario Wrecking Blow does more damage than Jabs. This is not true at all. First of all a Wrecking Blow is telegraphed and can be anticipated. If a geared Stam Temp procs Burning Light on his jabs he will easily outdamage a WB. Your statement is false and relies on jugglery of statistics or the gift of prophecy to be accurate.

You said

zornyan wrote: »

You listed a bunch of skills that aren't templar so their irrelevant.

By this you mean what? Stampede, Crit Rush, Retreat M, and Quick Cloak? Things that give mobility that you said don't exist for a Stamina Templar? Or do you mean Vigor and Rally? Skills every Stamina class practically need to survive (other than certain DKs)? Please show me in your original statement where you mentioned skills need to be baseline only. Or is this another weak attempt to paradigm shift?

Now onto selfhealing... You said Stam Sorcs have Crit Surge that helps them heal. Wow, bravo! Guess what? Nightblades also have a skill Mark Target that allows them to heal when they kill someone with the Mark on. Just like Crit Rush, there is a necessary variable (mechanic) that needs to happen in order to even get the heal. The Sorc needs to disable their target and then create distance and Crit Rush to get a big heal. Just like an NB needs to kill something with Mark on it, the Templar needs corpses (which are very common in IC / Cyro fights). But Sorcs that are stam always use Rally and/or Vigor because Crit Rush/Surge combo does not always cut it as you can't always count on being able to create distance heal, especially when 1vX or low on resources. The truth of the matter is, Repentance and Rally/Vigor fill up my 20k health easily all the time. I don't have any issues with self healing.

I don't care about what DKs have. Not once did I compare a Templar to a DK and I certainly wasn't the one to say Temps are the worst at selfhealing.

You also say Channeled Focus is worthless because it lasts 6 seconds. Newsflash, Nightblades Shadow Barrier lasts for 2 seconds. Whereas Channeled Focus lasts for 15 seconds and recovers my Magicka. It lasts for 9 seconds if I leave Rune's radius. So you are wrong on both counts, again, please take the time to educate yourself before you spout off.

You also said a Stam Sorc will have 20% regen, whereas a Temp will only have 10 if they slot a skill. Newsflash again, the same can be said about a Sorc. The sorc is required to slot a Daedric Summoning ability on both bars in order to make use of the regen. Which means they either need to run BA or use the Atronach ultimate. Both of these classes can stack these passive effects with potions.Of course all of this is moot as your argument (originally pre paradigm shift) was that Temps have the worst self healing, which is total horseshit as NBs are in a way worse situation.

Please just stop. It's not my responsibility to educate you. Before you come back and try to razzle dazzle the forum readers, get your facts straight.

zornyan · November 2015

blur wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

blur wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

blur wrote: »

Mumyo wrote: »

im hoenst with you, orcs are the better nords and nords are really really bad, especially for templars.

Templar is also not the best choice, the game is ruled by nb and sorc.

Probably the most uninformative post you could get.

Nords are fine, as are Templars, particularly stam.

Stam templar

Lowest dps in pve
Lowest burst in pvp
Lowest self healing
No mobility

Yeah their fine..

Lowest burst? They have more burst than Stamina Sorcs... not to mention over 4k weapon damage at all times when geared properly. Oh and let's not forget a ranged ability that does upwards of 8k which has a knockdown and 3s CC. They also have a passive that procs about 4.6-5k damage everytime you do damage with your Aedric abilities.

Lowest self-healing? Have you ever used Repentance, Rally and Vigor together? I have 0 problems getting full health. If I were a Nord it would be even easier. Repentance is one of the best skills in the game. Not to mention having Purify and Channeled Focus which brings your magic resist over 20k and adds a ton of armor while regenerating your magicka...

No mobility? They have access to Toppling Charge (templar only), Crit Rush/Stampede, Retreating Maneuvers, and Quick Cloak. Most good Stamina Templars run DW so there is no reason NOT to make use of Quick Cloak. Also having 2h on your 2nd bar gives you Stampede which you would be foolish not to use as it sets people up to get jabbed.

Yeah they really have the lowest burst, self healing and 0 mobility... /sarcasm

Before you continue to be a fountain of misinformation, you should stop parroting other ignorant people and learn how the class works. Templars are insanely good if you know how to play them.

Really toppling charge is MOBILITY? Jesus Christ please tell me how that works as an effective escape like cloak/bolt escape. ...

Oh wait tell me how good toppling is on a Stamina build. ..

Burst yes, lowest burst, you know an instant hitting hard attack, channeled focus is the worst armor resist buff in the game, it only last 8 seconds, others like sorc and DK last 20 seconds and give other benefits.

You listed a bunch of skills that aren't templar so their irrelevant.

Stam sorcs have more healing than templars, as crit surge works along side rally and vigor (again not class skills) they also lose all restoring tree skills and passives being stam, so have the least amount of healing buffs.

DK for instance can use shield + coagulating blood to get major and minor mending for increased healing, a templar gets nothing.

A stam sorc will have the same, if not more base damage than a stam templar, not to mention they also get +8% stam so will have a ton more stamina too.

Stam templars have 2 class skills, biting jabs CAN do great damage, but you rely on 25% chance of proc, and the fact that in pvp 90% of the time a minimum of one hit misses or doesn't count as landing, also biting jabs doesn't apply 140% damage to shields, so it doesn't even tickle shields.

In a real world scenario wrecking blow does more damage than jabs.

Repentance is only useful if bodies are around, it's useless 1v1, it's useful for trash mobs, that's about it.

Also a stam sorc will have a base 20% buff to stam and hp recovery, that stacks with 20% from potions, a templar can only get 10% if they slot a skill.

First off your argument is all over the place, you should really think before you type.

So a charge isn't mobility? Maybe you should offer a definition to what mobility means. Oh wait, let me do that for you:

mobility
/məʊˈbɪlɪtɪ/
noun
1.
the ability to move physically: a knee operation has restricted his mobility, mobility is part of physical education

Please explain to me how a charge is not mobile. Let alone why you chose to pigeonhole my response into one skill "toppling charge" when I mentioned Quick Cloak, Stampede/Crit Rush, and Retreating Maneuvers? Did you do this because you don't have a leg to stand on? Please explain how Quick Cloak, Stampede, and RM are also not mobility? Also how do you go from saying "stam temps have No mobility" to "effective escape like cloak/bolt escape."? Which is it? They either have no mobility or now we are comparing skills to other classes? You reek of desperation.

To answer your ridiculous question about Toppling Charge, it works fine. It's a ranged gap closer that uses magicka, something I rarely use outside of Purify and Total Dark. But seeing that you are trying to pick apart my response ala Strawman, let me be clear, I did not say TC was the most optimal, nor did I say it was for damage. I simply said it was one of many forms of mobility and it works for Stam Temps. Again, you said "Stam Temps have 0 mobility." You could not be more wrong.

Now onto burst... Please explain to me how a Stamina Sorc has more burst than a Stamina Templar. You seem to have some secret knowledge that pro Stam Sorcs like Xael and Fengrush don't. Stamina Sorcs outside of Lightning Form have no innate skills that function as damage for a stamina build. Streak is Magicka based, and the only other ability the majority of Stamina Sorcs use is Crit Surge which is a buff. That said, all the damage from a Stamina Sorc comes from 2h abilities like WB, Crit Rush, and Executioner. When on the secondary bar it's Steel Tornado and Caltrops (for those who have it unlocked). Not all stamina sorcs take Bound Armaments. Also not all Stamina Sorcs use an Overload bar. Some prefer Flawless Dawnbreaker and/or Atronach.

Templars have Stamina based abilities that not only scale off weapon damage AND stamina, but they have passives that work alongside them. Take for example Burning Light which procs for over 5k damage while jabbing or chucking spears. They also have a ranged ability that does anywhere from 8-10k damage when buffed. So no, a Stamina Sorc is nowhere near as bursty as a Stamina Templar. In fact it's fair to say a Stamina Sorc has nothing unique to add to their damage outside of an execute passive that requires you to be in close proximity with your boundless storm.

Also why the hell are you are even mentioning shields? This applies to all stam dps classes. Do you think a Stamina Sorc has some type of special attack (one that other classes lack) that goes through shield? Are you really this bad at debating that you think mentioning shields somehow singles out Templars and leaves Nightblades, Sorcs, and DK's attacks outside of the equation? Again, go back and read my response on Stam Sorc DPS. There is no damn way you play a high end Stam Sorc and make these weak arguments. Unless you are so filled with pride that you have become given over to myopia.

You said in a real world scenario Wrecking Blow does more damage than Jabs. This is not true at all. First of all a Wrecking Blow is telegraphed and can be anticipated. If a geared Stam Temp procs Burning Light on his jabs he will easily outdamage a WB. Your statement is false and relies on jugglery of statistics or the gift of prophecy to be accurate.

You said

zornyan wrote: »

You listed a bunch of skills that aren't templar so their irrelevant.

By this you mean what? Stampede, Crit Rush, Retreat M, and Quick Cloak? Things that give mobility that you said don't exist for a Stamina Templar? Or do you mean Vigor and Rally? Skills every Stamina class practically need to survive (other than certain DKs)? Please show me in your original statement where you mentioned skills need to be baseline only. Or is this another weak attempt to paradigm shift?

Now onto selfhealing... You said Stam Sorcs have Crit Surge that helps them heal. Wow, bravo! Guess what? Nightblades also have a skill Mark Target that allows them to heal when they kill someone with the Mark on. Just like Crit Rush, there is a necessary variable (mechanic) that needs to happen in order to even get the heal. The Sorc needs to disable their target and then create distance and Crit Rush to get a big heal. Just like an NB needs to kill something with Mark on it, the Templar needs corpses (which are very common in IC / Cyro fights). But Sorcs that are stam always use Rally and/or Vigor because Crit Rush/Surge combo does not always cut it as you can't always count on being able to create distance heal, especially when 1vX or low on resources. The truth of the matter is, Repentance and Rally/Vigor fill up my 20k health easily all the time. I don't have any issues with self healing.

I don't care about what DKs have. Not once did I compare a Templar to a DK and I certainly wasn't the one to say Temps are the worst at selfhealing.

You also say Channeled Focus is worthless because it lasts 6 seconds. Newsflash, Nightblades Shadow Barrier lasts for 2 seconds. Whereas Channeled Focus lasts for 15 seconds and recovers my Magicka. It lasts for 9 seconds if I leave Rune's radius. So you are wrong on both counts, again, please take the time to educate yourself before you spout off.

You also said a Stam Sorc will have 20% regen, whereas a Temp will only have 10 if they slot a skill. Newsflash again, the same can be said about a Sorc. The sorc is required to slot a Daedric Summoning ability on both bars in order to make use of the regen. Which means they either need to run BA or use the Atronach ultimate. Both of these classes can stack these passive effects with potions.Of course all of this is moot as your argument (originally pre paradigm shift) was that Temps have the worst self healing, which is total horseshit as NBs are in a way worse situation.

Please just stop. It's not my responsibility to educate you. Before you come back and try to razzle dazzle the forum readers, get your facts straight.

Well since most experienced pvpers all agree stamplar is the bottom of the pool then I think that says something.

I said shields as a stam dk can activate his class shield and gets major mending, a massive healing buff.

So when you cast vigor and get an 11k heal, they get a 16k heal.

In actual combat templars have vigor and rally, that's it, repentance is useless 1v1 or open world pvp, unless you literally stand there waiting to kill one person, then stand there waiting for another person to come just at the right time.

Do templars have no class healing, nor any healing passives that help like other classes have access to.

Mobility means actually being mobile, for instance a sorc sees a zerg incoming? They want to escape a battle they are losing? Bolt escape.

An NB in the same situation? Cloak

DK and temp have no mobility

You said biting jabs does more damage, but that requires all 4 hits to land (which basically never happens in experienced pvp) AND you require a proc that's a 25% chance, so technically it could outdamage wrecking blpw, but it could also do a chunk leas damage too. RNG is a bit crap like that.

Also jabs doesn't work on shields as it doesn't apply the 140% damage buff, so jabs is useless against a sorc.

You day wrecking blow is telegraphed, but it can be animation canceled, I can land a wrecking blow+ med attack+ an instant attack in the time it takes to land one biting jabs, as jabs can't be cancelled due to it being a channel.

Let me get this right

Stam temp, slot repentance on both bars for 10% all regen

Stam sorc, slot bound armaments on both bars for 10% mag and 20% stam and hp regen and heavy attack damage increase AND 8% max stam AND 1k extra resistances...

So in an average build of 36k stamina, 8% is what? 3300 stam more than the templar can ever have, which guess what? Equates to more damage, approx 300 weapon damage extra.

blur · November 2015

zornyan wrote: »

blur wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

blur wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

blur wrote: »

Mumyo wrote: »

im hoenst with you, orcs are the better nords and nords are really really bad, especially for templars.

Templar is also not the best choice, the game is ruled by nb and sorc.

Probably the most uninformative post you could get.

Nords are fine, as are Templars, particularly stam.

Stam templar

Lowest dps in pve
Lowest burst in pvp
Lowest self healing
No mobility

Yeah their fine..

Lowest burst? They have more burst than Stamina Sorcs... not to mention over 4k weapon damage at all times when geared properly. Oh and let's not forget a ranged ability that does upwards of 8k which has a knockdown and 3s CC. They also have a passive that procs about 4.6-5k damage everytime you do damage with your Aedric abilities.

Lowest self-healing? Have you ever used Repentance, Rally and Vigor together? I have 0 problems getting full health. If I were a Nord it would be even easier. Repentance is one of the best skills in the game. Not to mention having Purify and Channeled Focus which brings your magic resist over 20k and adds a ton of armor while regenerating your magicka...

No mobility? They have access to Toppling Charge (templar only), Crit Rush/Stampede, Retreating Maneuvers, and Quick Cloak. Most good Stamina Templars run DW so there is no reason NOT to make use of Quick Cloak. Also having 2h on your 2nd bar gives you Stampede which you would be foolish not to use as it sets people up to get jabbed.

Yeah they really have the lowest burst, self healing and 0 mobility... /sarcasm

Before you continue to be a fountain of misinformation, you should stop parroting other ignorant people and learn how the class works. Templars are insanely good if you know how to play them.

Really toppling charge is MOBILITY? Jesus Christ please tell me how that works as an effective escape like cloak/bolt escape. ...

Oh wait tell me how good toppling is on a Stamina build. ..

Burst yes, lowest burst, you know an instant hitting hard attack, channeled focus is the worst armor resist buff in the game, it only last 8 seconds, others like sorc and DK last 20 seconds and give other benefits.

You listed a bunch of skills that aren't templar so their irrelevant.

Stam sorcs have more healing than templars, as crit surge works along side rally and vigor (again not class skills) they also lose all restoring tree skills and passives being stam, so have the least amount of healing buffs.

DK for instance can use shield + coagulating blood to get major and minor mending for increased healing, a templar gets nothing.

A stam sorc will have the same, if not more base damage than a stam templar, not to mention they also get +8% stam so will have a ton more stamina too.

Stam templars have 2 class skills, biting jabs CAN do great damage, but you rely on 25% chance of proc, and the fact that in pvp 90% of the time a minimum of one hit misses or doesn't count as landing, also biting jabs doesn't apply 140% damage to shields, so it doesn't even tickle shields.

In a real world scenario wrecking blow does more damage than jabs.

Repentance is only useful if bodies are around, it's useless 1v1, it's useful for trash mobs, that's about it.

Also a stam sorc will have a base 20% buff to stam and hp recovery, that stacks with 20% from potions, a templar can only get 10% if they slot a skill.

First off your argument is all over the place, you should really think before you type.

So a charge isn't mobility? Maybe you should offer a definition to what mobility means. Oh wait, let me do that for you:

mobility
/məʊˈbɪlɪtɪ/
noun
1.
the ability to move physically: a knee operation has restricted his mobility, mobility is part of physical education

Please explain to me how a charge is not mobile. Let alone why you chose to pigeonhole my response into one skill "toppling charge" when I mentioned Quick Cloak, Stampede/Crit Rush, and Retreating Maneuvers? Did you do this because you don't have a leg to stand on? Please explain how Quick Cloak, Stampede, and RM are also not mobility? Also how do you go from saying "stam temps have No mobility" to "effective escape like cloak/bolt escape."? Which is it? They either have no mobility or now we are comparing skills to other classes? You reek of desperation.

To answer your ridiculous question about Toppling Charge, it works fine. It's a ranged gap closer that uses magicka, something I rarely use outside of Purify and Total Dark. But seeing that you are trying to pick apart my response ala Strawman, let me be clear, I did not say TC was the most optimal, nor did I say it was for damage. I simply said it was one of many forms of mobility and it works for Stam Temps. Again, you said "Stam Temps have 0 mobility." You could not be more wrong.

Now onto burst... Please explain to me how a Stamina Sorc has more burst than a Stamina Templar. You seem to have some secret knowledge that pro Stam Sorcs like Xael and Fengrush don't. Stamina Sorcs outside of Lightning Form have no innate skills that function as damage for a stamina build. Streak is Magicka based, and the only other ability the majority of Stamina Sorcs use is Crit Surge which is a buff. That said, all the damage from a Stamina Sorc comes from 2h abilities like WB, Crit Rush, and Executioner. When on the secondary bar it's Steel Tornado and Caltrops (for those who have it unlocked). Not all stamina sorcs take Bound Armaments. Also not all Stamina Sorcs use an Overload bar. Some prefer Flawless Dawnbreaker and/or Atronach.

Templars have Stamina based abilities that not only scale off weapon damage AND stamina, but they have passives that work alongside them. Take for example Burning Light which procs for over 5k damage while jabbing or chucking spears. They also have a ranged ability that does anywhere from 8-10k damage when buffed. So no, a Stamina Sorc is nowhere near as bursty as a Stamina Templar. In fact it's fair to say a Stamina Sorc has nothing unique to add to their damage outside of an execute passive that requires you to be in close proximity with your boundless storm.

Also why the hell are you are even mentioning shields? This applies to all stam dps classes. Do you think a Stamina Sorc has some type of special attack (one that other classes lack) that goes through shield? Are you really this bad at debating that you think mentioning shields somehow singles out Templars and leaves Nightblades, Sorcs, and DK's attacks outside of the equation? Again, go back and read my response on Stam Sorc DPS. There is no damn way you play a high end Stam Sorc and make these weak arguments. Unless you are so filled with pride that you have become given over to myopia.

You said in a real world scenario Wrecking Blow does more damage than Jabs. This is not true at all. First of all a Wrecking Blow is telegraphed and can be anticipated. If a geared Stam Temp procs Burning Light on his jabs he will easily outdamage a WB. Your statement is false and relies on jugglery of statistics or the gift of prophecy to be accurate.

You said

zornyan wrote: »

You listed a bunch of skills that aren't templar so their irrelevant.

By this you mean what? Stampede, Crit Rush, Retreat M, and Quick Cloak? Things that give mobility that you said don't exist for a Stamina Templar? Or do you mean Vigor and Rally? Skills every Stamina class practically need to survive (other than certain DKs)? Please show me in your original statement where you mentioned skills need to be baseline only. Or is this another weak attempt to paradigm shift?

Now onto selfhealing... You said Stam Sorcs have Crit Surge that helps them heal. Wow, bravo! Guess what? Nightblades also have a skill Mark Target that allows them to heal when they kill someone with the Mark on. Just like Crit Rush, there is a necessary variable (mechanic) that needs to happen in order to even get the heal. The Sorc needs to disable their target and then create distance and Crit Rush to get a big heal. Just like an NB needs to kill something with Mark on it, the Templar needs corpses (which are very common in IC / Cyro fights). But Sorcs that are stam always use Rally and/or Vigor because Crit Rush/Surge combo does not always cut it as you can't always count on being able to create distance heal, especially when 1vX or low on resources. The truth of the matter is, Repentance and Rally/Vigor fill up my 20k health easily all the time. I don't have any issues with self healing.

I don't care about what DKs have. Not once did I compare a Templar to a DK and I certainly wasn't the one to say Temps are the worst at selfhealing.

You also say Channeled Focus is worthless because it lasts 6 seconds. Newsflash, Nightblades Shadow Barrier lasts for 2 seconds. Whereas Channeled Focus lasts for 15 seconds and recovers my Magicka. It lasts for 9 seconds if I leave Rune's radius. So you are wrong on both counts, again, please take the time to educate yourself before you spout off.

You also said a Stam Sorc will have 20% regen, whereas a Temp will only have 10 if they slot a skill. Newsflash again, the same can be said about a Sorc. The sorc is required to slot a Daedric Summoning ability on both bars in order to make use of the regen. Which means they either need to run BA or use the Atronach ultimate. Both of these classes can stack these passive effects with potions.Of course all of this is moot as your argument (originally pre paradigm shift) was that Temps have the worst self healing, which is total horseshit as NBs are in a way worse situation.

Please just stop. It's not my responsibility to educate you. Before you come back and try to razzle dazzle the forum readers, get your facts straight.

Well since most experienced pvpers all agree stamplar is the bottom of the pool then I think that says something.

I said shields as a stam dk can activate his class shield and gets major mending, a massive healing buff.

So when you cast vigor and get an 11k heal, they get a 16k heal.

In actual combat templars have vigor and rally, that's it, repentance is useless 1v1 or open world pvp, unless you literally stand there waiting to kill one person, then stand there waiting for another person to come just at the right time.

Do templars have no class healing, nor any healing passives that help like other classes have access to.

Mobility means actually being mobile, for instance a sorc sees a zerg incoming? They want to escape a battle they are losing? Bolt escape.

An NB in the same situation? Cloak

DK and temp have no mobility

You said biting jabs does more damage, but that requires all 4 hits to land (which basically never happens in experienced pvp) AND you require a proc that's a 25% chance, so technically it could outdamage wrecking blpw, but it could also do a chunk leas damage too. RNG is a bit crap like that.

Also jabs doesn't work on shields as it doesn't apply the 140% damage buff, so jabs is useless against a sorc.

You day wrecking blow is telegraphed, but it can be animation canceled, I can land a wrecking blow+ med attack+ an instant attack in the time it takes to land one biting jabs, as jabs can't be cancelled due to it being a channel.

Let me get this right

Stam temp, slot repentance on both bars for 10% all regen

Stam sorc, slot bound armaments on both bars for 10% mag and 20% stam and hp regen and heavy attack damage increase AND 8% max stam AND 1k extra resistances...

So in an average build of 36k stamina, 8% is what? 3300 stam more than the templar can ever have, which guess what? Equates to more damage, approx 300 weapon damage extra.

What most experienced PvPers say Stam Templars are at the bottom of the pool? Considering the people on the forum whine about the most ridiculous horseshit imaginable, I really don't care what the majority opinion is. It's a fart in the wind. I can't tell you how often I see people parroting other people not knowing their ass from their elbow.
Stamina Templars are ridiculously strong in the hands of a good player, period.

I don't care about DKs healing stop bringing it up. It's irrelevant to this discussion. Nobody is contesting the DK's OP survivability or sustainable healing. They are leaps and bounds ahead of everything. I (and others) have always said "if I mained a DK I would make Cyrodiil my toilet." That's no bold claim, a simple fact, they are op as hell

You won't get any argument out of me regarding DK's unless you try and pander that Stam DKs are weak, etc.

Repentance is not useless in 1v1. Especially if you prepare your killing ground ahead of time. For example you bait your opponent into a somewhat dense area of mobs that are easily AoE'd down. I'm not saying you need to do this for all fights as it would be too much effort to put into making 1 ability relevant. I am however saying to take things into consideration, particularly your surroundings. I use Repentance all the damn time and more than 3/4 of my fights it gets used several times. I am also a predominantly solo player unless I join a small group of 2-3 buds. Regardless of what kind of mileage you think you will get (not sure you even play a stamina templar at max level in PvP), or whatever you do get, I get plenty as do others. Moreover you get 10% tri-stat regen for just having it slotted.

You asked the question do templars have any class healing or any passives that other classes have access to. Yes. As stated, repentance works, albeit gimmicky, but then again, so does Sorc healing and Nightblades are even worse than Temps and Sorcs. That said, your original statement is false. A stamina NB has no way to class heal outside of a killing blow with Mark Target and/or Killer's Blade. At least you can still have your Restoring Light at 50, slot HtD/BoL and make use of the passives. Even this sub-optimal healing is better than anything a Stamina Nightblade can do outside of Vigor/Rally.

Mobility was defined already. Mobility is a speed buff, gap closer or method of escape. What you are doing is jugglery. You are now taking a word and reducing it to an "escape." This is disingenuous.

When people refer to themselves as a "mobile skirmisher" it's not because they can cloak or streak per se. It means they can close distance rapidly and engage or disengage. This is not exclusive to disappearing or teleporting across the map.

First off, the DK does not have a gap closer of any kind outside of weapon skills like Invasion, Crit Rush/Stampede. They have no innate speed buff outside of Assault and Dual Wield. That said, DKs have 0 mobility as far as class abilities go. Templars have a charge. Just like Sorcs, their innate mobility skill functions off the Magicka resource. NBs at least get Ambush which uses and scales with Stamina. That said, Sorcs and Templars are tied. More importantly, Templars can Charge more often than Sorcs can Streak. As a Stamina Sorc you will get maybe 3 streaks off before you have no magicka. More often than not you will have 2. Saying Templars have no mobility is false, even if you misappropriate the word.

I did not saying Biting Jabs does more damage. What I did say was that Biting Jabs from a well geared Stam Temp when proccing Burning Light will outdamage WB. Mind you there is also context to my response you are ignoring. You said flat out "in a real world scenario Wrecking Blow does more damage than Jabs." A statement such as this has many variables you are ignoring and requires you to manipulate statistics in a favorable manner. Considering the undefined variables to this blanket statement, it's moot. Now I do agree with what you said about RNG. RNG can be a cruel mistress. However you said Jabs almost never lands in experienced PvP. I disagree. I will say inexperienced Stamina Templars can't land their jabs because they don't properly set them up. Jabs lands for me more often than not. Why? I set them up predicated on a hard CC and/or a nice snare from Stampede. Stampede is a must if you want to make the most out of Jabs. In fact I dare say don't even bother using Jabs if you don't set up with Stampede first. IF that's the case then yes, you are correct about WB being superior as it becomes much more reliable.

Again, you make the "shield" argument. Not sure why this is relevant. Several abilities from DKs NBs and Sorcs also get countered by shields. Mentioning Shields as an attempt to single out Jabs is kind of pointless. Also nobody said Jabs is the be all end all or that I won't have a rock paper scissors experience. I have come to accept my limitation against shield stacking Sorcs with Biting Jabs and use other methods like hitting the power button on my pc

Yes I understand the WB>HA>Exe weave. Xael was doing this in his streams a year ago and it's who I learned it from. However this does not mask the WB animation as you dig deep with your wind up and then switch swings to begin your HA. Once I see the familiar WB wind up I automatically assume the assrape is on it's way. That's not to say it's going to land or not land, but rather that it's visible and telegraphed. I do agree with you that it's more efficient to have a triple combo than a HA/Jab channel weave, however that's still ignoring certain variables. Allow me to explain:
Scenario 1: Both players are relatively full Health, Assrape McGee charges in does his WB/HA/Exe weave. What you don't realize is his target popped vigor and has rally ticking, maybe even a potion as well. Regardless this weave only gets the target to around 50% health (for other unmentioned variables, gear/1hS/CP etc). That said, the Exe part of the weave does minimal damage.
Scenario 2: Crit-Knee Spears uses BlindJav/Stampedes into her opponent and does the typical HA/Jab weave. Before she chucked her Spear she popped Rally for Major Brut and cast Entropy for Empower. Javelin did about 8k to target. Since Crit-Knee followed it up immediately with Stampede she is immediately on top of snared opponent who used Break Free to get out of the knockdown. Because target is snared Crit-Knee lands all of her jabs and 2 of them proc Burning Light doing about 10k damage. Target died.

Now I understand PvP is random and sometimes things just don't work out. This is universal regardless of build or class. But those 2 scenarios I mentioned can and do happen all the damn time. I main a Stamina Sorc and play a Templar when not playing my Sorc. On my Sorc I use the hell out of WB as I have no real burst without it. My Templar on the other hand does a hell of a lot more damage. It's not a CP thing or a gear thing as I have only one set of gear that I bank swap between the two (thanks ZOS for making v16 gear a real hassle). Templars just have better passives and skills that scale with Stamina play.

No, I didn't say slot Rep on both bars. If I had to do that I would be very unhappy. I only have it on my main bar (DW). The only time I bar switch is to heal/buff and Stampede. I spend the majority of my time on the DW bar. That said, I keep Rep there.

Regarding BA, you need it on both bars. It does not give you Magicka Regen. The passive that gives you Magicka Regen is Capacitor in the Storm line. You just get flat Magicka Recovery, no skill slotting needed. Also not every stam sorc uses BA. Take Xael and Fengrush, those dudes are hands down the best Stam Sorcs and neither of them are running that skill. Also with 36k you only get about 2880 extra Stam. It's tooltip damage is negligible. Though the 11% HA damage is nice. Also that extra Stamina is not 300 weapon damage. You seem to forget the Aedric Spear passive called Balanced Warrior that gives 6% weapon damage and 2k spell resist.

Regardless of BA, Stamina Sorc damage all comes from 2h abilities and/or Caltrop/Steel Tornado spam. That said, no matter how much stamina you have (btw my Templar has more than my Sorc) the tooltip damage on 2h abilities doesn't go up much from the 8% addition. Whereas Templars still have a spammable ranged ability that does 8-10k and also can proc the Burning Light passive. Stam Sorc's have nothing like this. Hopefully Wrobel will give us a Stam based Frag from the crap morph nobody uses.

Again, Stamina Templars when played/built right are really good. Regardless of what people whine about, remember, if you tell a lie long enough loud enough, it eventually becomes truth. Consider the nonsense people have been parroting on the forums since 1.6.

caeliusstarbreaker · November 2015

@zornyan

Don't bother dude it isn't worth it.