Nord Templar - Should i reroll?

zornyan · November 2015

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

@zornyan

Don't bother dude it isn't worth it.

The funny thing is it does me a massive favour, casuals and new players come on here, read what these people have said and make builds like the above suggestions, which are easy to faceroll.

I just don't like people being blinded into thinking something is amazing when other builds are far far superior.

Sure give someone like sypher any build in the game and he will win, but if you say had sypher against an equally skilled player than stamplar would be bottom

allen-iverson · November 2015

OP i suggest checking out Bandz's build

http://youtu.be/ldGli8fI5qA

if i had 3 agility and did small scale stuff on my stamplar i would be running what hes running.

sadly i dont have the time to grind bloody claws or monstrous teeth. ravager seems to be better for large groups imo... even though there isn't a v16 version of the gear, it proccs off biting jabs really allllllllll da time mon.

allen-iverson · November 2015

definitely too broke to buy agility stuff too.

#brokeboy

caeliusstarbreaker · November 2015

@allen-iverson
Tbs ravager serpent/shadow with food my dude

caeliusstarbreaker · November 2015

@zornyan
I concur and agree ... Way to keep your composure.

Torbschka · November 2015

Thanks for all those replies!

I'm still not sure waht gear / sets I want to use... The thing is, i could go the standard "cookie cutter" build like, lets say, 5x hundigs / 3x Nightmother and full dmg glass cannon. The point is, if I do that, i always feel like i gimp myself cuz im not and a templar and always feel like the same setup would be much better with a different calss/race.

I really like what @JackDaniell came up with:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=GR2gexv5vys

So i utilizie the Templar Ult + Nord Passive. Well, still I feel i waste the 30 Helth regen and was thinking about doing the something similar, but with more focus on Lifereg and dont become a vampire, not sure if this is crucial for this build (hes saying so, but so many people running around with camo hunter, have figher guild's passive etc.).

So I was thinking about something like 5x Reactive, 2x Vampire Kiss, 1x Molag Kena and 3x Agility. With Regen Food and Mundus Stone + Radiant Aura i think i would easily achieve 2,5k regen buffed.

I have tested some things with reactive but it wasnt tooo impressive, against 1 player its very good, against 2 hard burst nb/sorcs/whatever i simply got crushed, even when cc'ed (is that the missing undead passive?).

Man, I just dont know how to choose sets. I dont want just a full dmg thing, simply because i choosed templar / nrod for a reason. Ive heard some1 speaking about a 55k health in reactive armor set up, i think it was @Prothwata . Could u explain this a bit?

thank you guys for all the answers!

Atzel · December 2015

@blur

You are either troll or clueless , not sure which one... you win me here!

Minno · December 2015

zornyan wrote: »

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

@zornyan

Don't bother dude it isn't worth it.

The funny thing is it does me a massive favour, casuals and new players come on here, read what these people have said and make builds like the above suggestions, which are easy to faceroll.

I just don't like people being blinded into thinking something is amazing when other builds are far far superior.

Sure give someone like sypher any build in the game and he will win, but if you say had sypher against an equally skilled player than stamplar would be bottom

So you want it to be elder sorcblades online?

Chill out on the anti-templar vibes. OP and others came up and delivered a solid build based on Nord since OP likes them as a race.

New players should try out all build suggestions anyway, then adjust accordingly to how they have fun and what works.

Minno · December 2015

Torbschka wrote: »

Thanks for all those replies!

I'm still not sure waht gear / sets I want to use... The thing is, i could go the standard "cookie cutter" build like, lets say, 5x hundigs / 3x Nightmother and full dmg glass cannon. The point is, if I do that, i always feel like i gimp myself cuz im not and a templar and always feel like the same setup would be much better with a different calss/race.

I really like what @JackDaniell came up with:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=GR2gexv5vys

So i utilizie the Templar Ult + Nord Passive. Well, still I feel i waste the 30 Helth regen and was thinking about doing the something similar, but with more focus on Lifereg and dont become a vampire, not sure if this is crucial for this build (hes saying so, but so many people running around with camo hunter, have figher guild's passive etc.).

So I was thinking about something like 5x Reactive, 2x Vampire Kiss, 1x Molag Kena and 3x Agility. With Regen Food and Mundus Stone + Radiant Aura i think i would easily achieve 2,5k regen buffed.

I have tested some things with reactive but it wasnt tooo impressive, against 1 player its very good, against 2 hard burst nb/sorcs/whatever i simply got crushed, even when cc'ed (is that the missing undead passive?).

Man, I just dont know how to choose sets. I dont want just a full dmg thing, simply because i choosed templar / nrod for a reason. Ive heard some1 speaking about a 55k health in reactive armor set up, i think it was @Prothwata . Could u explain this a bit?

thank you guys for all the answers!

As a Templar, purifying ritual negates magicka sorc's curse. With removing curse when its cast on you plus blocking crystal frags, you should be able to hit a sorc down. Shields are annoying but keep pressure on them.

If you need mobility without a skill, speed pots are decent enough (with alchemy passives you'll be at 42 seconds of 40% increased movement speeds.). They make the difference with helping you land jabs. Also they have immovable speed pots

.

Nightblades are a little more annoying. That ambush spam gets real and without immovable skills/pots, nothing more you can do except eat it. Life of a Templar

.

Kutsuu · December 2015

This is generally how it goes on the official ESO forums and reddit. People want to be victims, and will fight viciously with anyone who tries to challenge that. Each class has things they're better at than others, and some will fit certain roles better than others. Templars are not the strongest class in PVP right now, but it's not an insurmountable disadvantage like some would have us believe. They can still perform very when optimized and played well, just like any other class. They will still underperform when not optimized or played badly, just like any other class. Anyone stating that a class is "100% broken" or "has zero blah blah" is exaggerating and playing the victim.

Mobility and escape skills are not the same thing. All classes have access to adequate mobility in non-class skill lines. Let's try to remember that ESO is rather unique in its "class" approach - they add 3 unique skill lines and passives, but most of the skills are available to everyone. Some builds will use more class skills, some less, and just because a build uses mostly non-class skills doesn't mean the build is broken or the class needs buffing simply because they "had" to use non-class skills.

And back to tamrielfoundry, where the whiners tend to get beat away with a stick.

blur · December 2015

Kutsuu wrote: »

This is generally how it goes on the official ESO forums and reddit. People want to be victims, and will fight viciously with anyone who tries to challenge that. Each class has things they're better at than others, and some will fit certain roles better than others. Templars are not the strongest class in PVP right now, but it's not an insurmountable disadvantage like some would have us believe. They can still perform very when optimized and played well, just like any other class. They will still underperform when not optimized or played badly, just like any other class. Anyone stating that a class is "100% broken" or "has zero blah blah" is exaggerating and playing the victim.

Mobility and escape skills are not the same thing. All classes have access to adequate mobility in non-class skill lines. Let's try to remember that ESO is rather unique in its "class" approach - they add 3 unique skill lines and passives, but most of the skills are available to everyone. Some builds will use more class skills, some less, and just because a build uses mostly non-class skills doesn't mean the build is broken or the class needs buffing simply because they "had" to use non-class skills.

And back to tamrielfoundry, where the whiners tend to get beat away with a stick.

Well said and very true @Kutsuu
Though you can tell from the resistance I have received people are very myopic and unable to see the forest for the trees. No matter how much evidence you will present, they will grandstand with empty sweeping statements and then prance around as if they are somehow victorious.

You basically end up with this:

http://i.imgsafe.org/74bd3b3.jpg

Minno · December 2015

blur wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

This is generally how it goes on the official ESO forums and reddit. People want to be victims, and will fight viciously with anyone who tries to challenge that. Each class has things they're better at than others, and some will fit certain roles better than others. Templars are not the strongest class in PVP right now, but it's not an insurmountable disadvantage like some would have us believe. They can still perform very when optimized and played well, just like any other class. They will still underperform when not optimized or played badly, just like any other class. Anyone stating that a class is "100% broken" or "has zero blah blah" is exaggerating and playing the victim.

Mobility and escape skills are not the same thing. All classes have access to adequate mobility in non-class skill lines. Let's try to remember that ESO is rather unique in its "class" approach - they add 3 unique skill lines and passives, but most of the skills are available to everyone. Some builds will use more class skills, some less, and just because a build uses mostly non-class skills doesn't mean the build is broken or the class needs buffing simply because they "had" to use non-class skills.

And back to tamrielfoundry, where the whiners tend to get beat away with a stick.

Well said and very true @Kutsuu
Though you can tell from the resistance I have received people are very myopic and unable to see the forest for the trees. No matter how much evidence you will present, they will grandstand with empty sweeping statements and then prance around as if they are somehow victorious.

You basically end up with this:

http://i.imgsafe.org/74bd3b3.jpg

Also, even if new players listen to the naysayers' comments, they will run into templars that proved them wrong. Especially running into stam templars hitting like trucks with jabs.

But let's not go off topic, there was a comment about gear that not everyone saw/commented on.

zornyan · December 2015

Even though it's been proven by people like ALCAST that biting jabs hits for LESS THAN puncturing sweeps.

It also doesn't work on shields.

I have THREE templars at vr16, I don't need some arrogant moron telling me about the class, two are dedicated for pvp, the stam build hits for leas, has less survivability and a major lack of class skills or buffs

My stam dk hits harder and has better self healing and has buffs to increase self healing.

My stam sorc hits harder, had more healing options, has more mobility and escape options and better base raw stats thanks to their passives.

My stam nb just face trolls thanks to stupid easy 3 button combos to insta gib players.

No stam templars are not in a good place, it's morons like you that got blazing shield and radiant destruction nerfed, oh and blazing spears now too, thanks

blur · December 2015

zornyan wrote: »

Even though it's been proven by people like ALCAST that biting jabs hits for LESS THAN puncturing sweeps.

It also doesn't work on shields.

I have THREE templars at vr16, I don't need some arrogant moron telling me about the class, two are dedicated for pvp, the stam build hits for leas, has less survivability and a major lack of class skills or buffs

My stam dk hits harder and has better self healing and has buffs to increase self healing.

My stam sorc hits harder, had more healing options, has more mobility and escape options and better base raw stats thanks to their passives.

My stam nb just face trolls thanks to stupid easy 3 button combos to insta gib players.

No stam templars are not in a good place, it's morons like you that got blazing shield and radiant destruction nerfed, oh and blazing spears now too, thanks

Makes sweeping statement that Templar has the lowest burst. Even goes as far to say Stam Sorcs have more burst even though Stamina Sorc's DON'T HAVE 1 SINGLE STAM ABILITY outside weapon lines all 4 classes have. On the other hand Stamina Templars have Blinding Javelin which is instant cast with Empower, Major Brut, and over 4k Weapon Damage doing upwards of 8-10k and passives that proc on top of their class based Stam DPS abilities upwards of 5k a pop. Stam Sorcs do not have access to burst like this (via class abilities or passives). Neither do DKs outside of Ult.

Again you keep mentioning Sorc Shields as if they exclusively a problem for Templars only, whereas all 3 other classes get just as screwed. You are being dishonest and ignoring facts to intentionally mislead. I am not the only one who sees this.

You then grandstand that Templars don't have mobility yet they have perma Major Expedition through DW and a Charge that does around 5k damage and stuns players setting up jabs and or Wrecking Blow.

You are lying again about your stam sorc having more options for mobility than a Stamina Templar. You have Lightning Form, Templars have (class) charge, Sorcs dont have (class) charges and Templars dont have a ME buff (outside of DW/Alliance War), that makes them completely even. Regarding escape, only Magicka Sorcs can streak away, Stam will get 2 off and likely still be gap closed by a charge.

You call me a moron, yet you get on here and make the most ignorant and baseless arguments. I provide numbers and even the way to get those numbers and you just continue to ramble on while ignoring the facts. Actually Alcast does not agree with you and if you used his build (which you clearly don't) you would have similar numbers to me.

For the record, I never asked for any nerfs. Nor do I (or ever did) use Blazing Shield/Spears or Radiant Destruction.

You are a very dishonest person and reek of desperation.

Minno · December 2015

blur wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Even though it's been proven by people like ALCAST that biting jabs hits for LESS THAN puncturing sweeps.

It also doesn't work on shields.

I have THREE templars at vr16, I don't need some arrogant moron telling me about the class, two are dedicated for pvp, the stam build hits for leas, has less survivability and a major lack of class skills or buffs

My stam dk hits harder and has better self healing and has buffs to increase self healing.

My stam sorc hits harder, had more healing options, has more mobility and escape options and better base raw stats thanks to their passives.

My stam nb just face trolls thanks to stupid easy 3 button combos to insta gib players.

No stam templars are not in a good place, it's morons like you that got blazing shield and radiant destruction nerfed, oh and blazing spears now too, thanks

Makes sweeping statement that Templar has the lowest burst. Even goes as far to say Stam Sorcs have more burst even though Stamina Sorc's DON'T HAVE 1 SINGLE STAM ABILITY outside weapon lines all 4 classes have. On the other hand Stamina Templars have Blinding Javelin which is instant cast with Empower, Major Brut, and over 4k Weapon Damage doing upwards of 8-10k and passives that proc on top of their class based Stam DPS abilities upwards of 5k a pop. Stam Sorcs do not have access to burst like this (via class abilities or passives). Neither do DKs outside of Ult.

Again you keep mentioning Sorc Shields as if they exclusively a problem for Templars only, whereas all 3 other classes get just as screwed. You are being dishonest and ignoring facts to intentionally mislead. I am not the only one who sees this.

You then grandstand that Templars don't have mobility yet they have perma Major Expedition through DW and a Charge that does around 5k damage and stuns players setting up jabs and or Wrecking Blow.

You are lying again about your stam sorc having more options for mobility than a Stamina Templar. You have Lightning Form, Templars have (class) charge, Sorcs dont have (class) charges and Templars dont have a ME buff (outside of DW/Alliance War), that makes them completely even. Regarding escape, only Magicka Sorcs can streak away, Stam will get 2 off and likely still be gap closed by a charge.

You call me a moron, yet you get on here and make the most ignorant and baseless arguments. I provide numbers and even the way to get those numbers and you just continue to ramble on while ignoring the facts. Actually Alcast does not agree with you and if you used his build (which you clearly don't) you would have similar numbers to me.

For the record, I never asked for any nerfs. Nor do I (or ever did) use Blazing Shield/Spears or Radiant Destruction.

You are a very dishonest person and reek of desperation.

Also adding that using Templar charges with jabs is a way of countering shield spam on sorc's. So while the 140% dmg increase is bugged against shields, there's seems to be a substantial counter to sorcs. Personally, killing them is on par with facing against Nightblades (sans the ambush spam).

zornyan · December 2015

blur wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Even though it's been proven by people like ALCAST that biting jabs hits for LESS THAN puncturing sweeps.

It also doesn't work on shields.

I have THREE templars at vr16, I don't need some arrogant moron telling me about the class, two are dedicated for pvp, the stam build hits for leas, has less survivability and a major lack of class skills or buffs

My stam dk hits harder and has better self healing and has buffs to increase self healing.

My stam sorc hits harder, had more healing options, has more mobility and escape options and better base raw stats thanks to their passives.

My stam nb just face trolls thanks to stupid easy 3 button combos to insta gib players.

No stam templars are not in a good place, it's morons like you that got blazing shield and radiant destruction nerfed, oh and blazing spears now too, thanks

Makes sweeping statement that Templar has the lowest burst. Even goes as far to say Stam Sorcs have more burst even though Stamina Sorc's DON'T HAVE 1 SINGLE STAM ABILITY outside weapon lines all 4 classes have. On the other hand Stamina Templars have Blinding Javelin which is instant cast with Empower, Major Brut, and over 4k Weapon Damage doing upwards of 8-10k and passives that proc on top of their class based Stam DPS abilities upwards of 5k a pop. Stam Sorcs do not have access to burst like this (via class abilities or passives). Neither do DKs outside of Ult.

Again you keep mentioning Sorc Shields as if they exclusively a problem for Templars only, whereas all 3 other classes get just as screwed. You are being dishonest and ignoring facts to intentionally mislead. I am not the only one who sees this.

You then grandstand that Templars don't have mobility yet they have perma Major Expedition through DW and a Charge that does around 5k damage and stuns players setting up jabs and or Wrecking Blow.

You are lying again about your stam sorc having more options for mobility than a Stamina Templar. You have Lightning Form, Templars have (class) charge, Sorcs dont have (class) charges and Templars dont have a ME buff (outside of DW/Alliance War), that makes them completely even. Regarding escape, only Magicka Sorcs can streak away, Stam will get 2 off and likely still be gap closed by a charge.

You call me a moron, yet you get on here and make the most ignorant and baseless arguments. I provide numbers and even the way to get those numbers and you just continue to ramble on while ignoring the facts. Actually Alcast does not agree with you and if you used his build (which you clearly don't) you would have similar numbers to me.

For the record, I never asked for any nerfs. Nor do I (or ever did) use Blazing Shield/Spears or Radiant Destruction.

You are a very dishonest person and reek of desperation.

Are you just stupid, jabs doesn't actually work on shields at all, it doesn't get 140% damage buff so it would take on average 6-7 casts of biting jabs or sweeps to take down a sorcs hardened ward. It's bugged and uselsss against shields meaning templars can't effectively take down a shield stacker.

So shields are exclusively a templar problem since they completly remove our main damage ability.

Javelin for a stamplar is weaker than a magicka version, since the magicks version has 40% more damage, unless 40% damage buff is insignificant now?

I've used a build similar to alcasts on my stamplar, but I have just over 400 more weapon damage, never get close to 8k on a javlin, and my wrecking blow does more damage than biting jabs.

So we're down to using entirely weapon class skills only, in which DK sorc and NB all have better passives with, and better self buffs.

Stam sorc has bolt escape (an escspe) and major expedition both in their class skills, which also gives them a weapon damage % increase. Not to mention they get 20% flat buffs to stam and hp regen.

Minno · December 2015

zornyan wrote: »

blur wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Even though it's been proven by people like ALCAST that biting jabs hits for LESS THAN puncturing sweeps.

It also doesn't work on shields.

I have THREE templars at vr16, I don't need some arrogant moron telling me about the class, two are dedicated for pvp, the stam build hits for leas, has less survivability and a major lack of class skills or buffs

My stam dk hits harder and has better self healing and has buffs to increase self healing.

My stam sorc hits harder, had more healing options, has more mobility and escape options and better base raw stats thanks to their passives.

My stam nb just face trolls thanks to stupid easy 3 button combos to insta gib players.

No stam templars are not in a good place, it's morons like you that got blazing shield and radiant destruction nerfed, oh and blazing spears now too, thanks

Makes sweeping statement that Templar has the lowest burst. Even goes as far to say Stam Sorcs have more burst even though Stamina Sorc's DON'T HAVE 1 SINGLE STAM ABILITY outside weapon lines all 4 classes have. On the other hand Stamina Templars have Blinding Javelin which is instant cast with Empower, Major Brut, and over 4k Weapon Damage doing upwards of 8-10k and passives that proc on top of their class based Stam DPS abilities upwards of 5k a pop. Stam Sorcs do not have access to burst like this (via class abilities or passives). Neither do DKs outside of Ult.

Again you keep mentioning Sorc Shields as if they exclusively a problem for Templars only, whereas all 3 other classes get just as screwed. You are being dishonest and ignoring facts to intentionally mislead. I am not the only one who sees this.

You then grandstand that Templars don't have mobility yet they have perma Major Expedition through DW and a Charge that does around 5k damage and stuns players setting up jabs and or Wrecking Blow.

You are lying again about your stam sorc having more options for mobility than a Stamina Templar. You have Lightning Form, Templars have (class) charge, Sorcs dont have (class) charges and Templars dont have a ME buff (outside of DW/Alliance War), that makes them completely even. Regarding escape, only Magicka Sorcs can streak away, Stam will get 2 off and likely still be gap closed by a charge.

You call me a moron, yet you get on here and make the most ignorant and baseless arguments. I provide numbers and even the way to get those numbers and you just continue to ramble on while ignoring the facts. Actually Alcast does not agree with you and if you used his build (which you clearly don't) you would have similar numbers to me.

For the record, I never asked for any nerfs. Nor do I (or ever did) use Blazing Shield/Spears or Radiant Destruction.

You are a very dishonest person and reek of desperation.

Are you just stupid, jabs doesn't actually work on shields at all, it doesn't get 140% damage buff so it would take on average 6-7 casts of biting jabs or sweeps to take down a sorcs hardened ward. It's bugged and uselsss against shields meaning templars can't effectively take down a shield stacker.

So shields are exclusively a templar problem since they completly remove our main damage ability.

Javelin for a stamplar is weaker than a magicka version, since the magicks version has 40% more damage, unless 40% damage buff is insignificant now?

I've used a build similar to alcasts on my stamplar, but I have just over 400 more weapon damage, never get close to 8k on a javlin, and my wrecking blow does more damage than biting jabs.

So we're down to using entirely weapon class skills only, in which DK sorc and NB all have better passives with, and better self buffs.

Stam sorc has bolt escape (an escspe) and major expedition both in their class skills, which also gives them a weapon damage % increase. Not to mention they get 20% flat buffs to stam and hp regen.

Your comment on shields is very one directional and can be mistaken as the skill not applying any dmg at all. Highly unlikely.

A stam skill, is negated by physical resistance.
This means you need armor piercing more than spell penetration. Because of this, biting jabs hits for more than magicka version. Why? You should have some element of armor penetration, decent weapon dmg, and decent stamina. A magicka user can stack all the spell dmg,magicka, and spell penetration all they want; but they need to fight through the following counters:

1) easily obtainable spell resistance (20k+)
2) a Champion point dump dedicated to reducing overall magic dmg

Physical dmg has the following counter:

1) armor.

That's it. No Champion mitigation, most magical users have to use light armor to even get to the level of burst stamina weapon skills have. That leaves less than 9k armor for stamina opponents.

If you compare biting jabs to the other you should be hitting the following:

-biting jabs = 3-4k per tick
-magicka morph = 1.5-2k. Sometimes it's hitting for 500....

Javelin is superior in its stam morph. Why? Because you get armor penetration!!!! Magicka users have to be at the farthest distance to get 5k jav crits in pvp (for almost 3k magicka per cast.). Check the numbers again.

Sorc's get a great escape. But templars get purifying ritual, an instant cast purge that buffs your healing, removes sorc curse, NB debuffs, negates meteor's targeting, and is cheap to cast. Even as a stamina Templar, if your not using that skill, don't bother playing this class, you under-utilizing it. Combine DW ME buff with purifying ritual, you'll achieve max speed always to run away. Pop an immovable pot so you don't get ccd. There, I just gave you the Templar escape.

Weapon skills, are used by all stam classes. While WB is so good right now (minus the CC bug), it has one simple counter: walk towards player casting it. It stops the attack

. Jabs, while easily counterable, still goes letting you get some of your hits. Strongest combo for templars is charge (if not using toppling charge), jav, jabs. Cc ensures you land all 4 hits. Not hitting your jabs? Get ME buffs, L2P templars, and use other skills to throw off your enemy.

Now if biting jabs under performs, post your data showing it. Let's see those numbers.

blur · December 2015

zornyan wrote: »

blur wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Even though it's been proven by people like ALCAST that biting jabs hits for LESS THAN puncturing sweeps.

It also doesn't work on shields.

I have THREE templars at vr16, I don't need some arrogant moron telling me about the class, two are dedicated for pvp, the stam build hits for leas, has less survivability and a major lack of class skills or buffs

My stam dk hits harder and has better self healing and has buffs to increase self healing.

My stam sorc hits harder, had more healing options, has more mobility and escape options and better base raw stats thanks to their passives.

My stam nb just face trolls thanks to stupid easy 3 button combos to insta gib players.

No stam templars are not in a good place, it's morons like you that got blazing shield and radiant destruction nerfed, oh and blazing spears now too, thanks

Makes sweeping statement that Templar has the lowest burst. Even goes as far to say Stam Sorcs have more burst even though Stamina Sorc's DON'T HAVE 1 SINGLE STAM ABILITY outside weapon lines all 4 classes have. On the other hand Stamina Templars have Blinding Javelin which is instant cast with Empower, Major Brut, and over 4k Weapon Damage doing upwards of 8-10k and passives that proc on top of their class based Stam DPS abilities upwards of 5k a pop. Stam Sorcs do not have access to burst like this (via class abilities or passives). Neither do DKs outside of Ult.

Again you keep mentioning Sorc Shields as if they exclusively a problem for Templars only, whereas all 3 other classes get just as screwed. You are being dishonest and ignoring facts to intentionally mislead. I am not the only one who sees this.

You then grandstand that Templars don't have mobility yet they have perma Major Expedition through DW and a Charge that does around 5k damage and stuns players setting up jabs and or Wrecking Blow.

You are lying again about your stam sorc having more options for mobility than a Stamina Templar. You have Lightning Form, Templars have (class) charge, Sorcs dont have (class) charges and Templars dont have a ME buff (outside of DW/Alliance War), that makes them completely even. Regarding escape, only Magicka Sorcs can streak away, Stam will get 2 off and likely still be gap closed by a charge.

You call me a moron, yet you get on here and make the most ignorant and baseless arguments. I provide numbers and even the way to get those numbers and you just continue to ramble on while ignoring the facts. Actually Alcast does not agree with you and if you used his build (which you clearly don't) you would have similar numbers to me.

For the record, I never asked for any nerfs. Nor do I (or ever did) use Blazing Shield/Spears or Radiant Destruction.

You are a very dishonest person and reek of desperation.

Are you just stupid, jabs doesn't actually work on shields at all, it doesn't get 140% damage buff so it would take on average 6-7 casts of biting jabs or sweeps to take down a sorcs hardened ward. It's bugged and uselsss against shields meaning templars can't effectively take down a shield stacker.

So shields are exclusively a templar problem since they completly remove our main damage ability.

Javelin for a stamplar is weaker than a magicka version, since the magicks version has 40% more damage, unless 40% damage buff is insignificant now?

I've used a build similar to alcasts on my stamplar, but I have just over 400 more weapon damage, never get close to 8k on a javlin, and my wrecking blow does more damage than biting jabs.

So we're down to using entirely weapon class skills only, in which DK sorc and NB all have better passives with, and better self buffs.

Stam sorc has bolt escape (an escspe) and major expedition both in their class skills, which also gives them a weapon damage % increase. Not to mention they get 20% flat buffs to stam and hp regen.

Again, where did I say Jabs works against shields? Why are you making Shields a Templar only problem? All melee have issues with shields. Shields can't be crit and absorb damage from skills like Wrecking Blow. Templars have other abilities to use outside of Jabs (something you don't even slot). Again, why are you deliberately creating a construct to paradigm shift into? Stop being disingenuous.

Blinding Javelin is weaker than magicka? I wouldn't know, I am not magicka. I have however hit for 10k with a buffed Javelin. Whether or not the magicka morph is stronger (something I see no evidence of as you would need to show the scaling of both) is completely irrelevant. Again, it's a Stamina morph, it does 10k damage in PvP and it's part of your burst. Stam Sorcs HAVE NOTHING LIKE THIS. Now you prevaricate? Wow!

Saying you have used "similar" builds is not saying you used his build. Let alone itemized properly. Do you have over 4k weapon damage (perma) and very high melee crit rating? What about physical damage % and crit damage? I do. My stuff hits hard as does my burning light. What armor sets/Mundus do you run and how much CP do you have? Clearly you are not running Alcasts build or mine. You claim your javelin never gets close to 8k yet I am willing to bet not only do you not have the right stats, you don't properly frontload your damage for your javelin with Major Brut,Empower, Fracture, etc.

You then say we are down to weapon class skills only. This is completely false and why you not only have poor experience, it's also why you don't have the numbers. Templars have 2 Aedric abilities which not only hit hard, also proc Burning Light which does over 5k a pop. They also have passives that increase Weapon Damage by 6%. Stamina Sorcs on the other hand DO NOT have ANY passives that effect weapon skill line damage outside of Expert Mage which only gives you 2% PER SORC ABILITY SLOTTED. Let me help you even further, no Stamina Sorc worth a damn is going to have more than 2 Sorc abilities on his main 2h bar. You will have 1 daedric (which is mandatory to get the regen) and MAYBE Streak. No good Stam sorc will have Boundless Storm on his main bar, it's going to be on the DW bar with the rest of the buffs. Stam Templars also get 10% Crit Damage and 10% increased damage against blockers. Stam Sorcs have NOTHING like this. Saying "weapon class skills only, in which ...sorc ... have better passives with" is a HUGE LIE. You are very dishonest.

Lastly, you are rarely going to "escape" anyone with just Streak. Sorry but charge and Major Expedition has no issue catching a Stam Sorc using Streak. You can only Streak twice and then you are out of Magicka. All 4 classes have access to Major Expedition and gap closers. Again, you only get weapon damage by 2% per ability slotted on that particular bar. You won't have more than 4, and Temps have a flat 6% plus the other stuff I mentioned. Regarding regen you can't even access it without slotting Daedric Summoning ability. You are reaching.

zornyan · December 2015

Minno wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

blur wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Even though it's been proven by people like ALCAST that biting jabs hits for LESS THAN puncturing sweeps.

It also doesn't work on shields.

I have THREE templars at vr16, I don't need some arrogant moron telling me about the class, two are dedicated for pvp, the stam build hits for leas, has less survivability and a major lack of class skills or buffs

My stam dk hits harder and has better self healing and has buffs to increase self healing.

My stam sorc hits harder, had more healing options, has more mobility and escape options and better base raw stats thanks to their passives.

My stam nb just face trolls thanks to stupid easy 3 button combos to insta gib players.

No stam templars are not in a good place, it's morons like you that got blazing shield and radiant destruction nerfed, oh and blazing spears now too, thanks

Makes sweeping statement that Templar has the lowest burst. Even goes as far to say Stam Sorcs have more burst even though Stamina Sorc's DON'T HAVE 1 SINGLE STAM ABILITY outside weapon lines all 4 classes have. On the other hand Stamina Templars have Blinding Javelin which is instant cast with Empower, Major Brut, and over 4k Weapon Damage doing upwards of 8-10k and passives that proc on top of their class based Stam DPS abilities upwards of 5k a pop. Stam Sorcs do not have access to burst like this (via class abilities or passives). Neither do DKs outside of Ult.

Again you keep mentioning Sorc Shields as if they exclusively a problem for Templars only, whereas all 3 other classes get just as screwed. You are being dishonest and ignoring facts to intentionally mislead. I am not the only one who sees this.

You then grandstand that Templars don't have mobility yet they have perma Major Expedition through DW and a Charge that does around 5k damage and stuns players setting up jabs and or Wrecking Blow.

You are lying again about your stam sorc having more options for mobility than a Stamina Templar. You have Lightning Form, Templars have (class) charge, Sorcs dont have (class) charges and Templars dont have a ME buff (outside of DW/Alliance War), that makes them completely even. Regarding escape, only Magicka Sorcs can streak away, Stam will get 2 off and likely still be gap closed by a charge.

You call me a moron, yet you get on here and make the most ignorant and baseless arguments. I provide numbers and even the way to get those numbers and you just continue to ramble on while ignoring the facts. Actually Alcast does not agree with you and if you used his build (which you clearly don't) you would have similar numbers to me.

For the record, I never asked for any nerfs. Nor do I (or ever did) use Blazing Shield/Spears or Radiant Destruction.

You are a very dishonest person and reek of desperation.

Are you just stupid, jabs doesn't actually work on shields at all, it doesn't get 140% damage buff so it would take on average 6-7 casts of biting jabs or sweeps to take down a sorcs hardened ward. It's bugged and uselsss against shields meaning templars can't effectively take down a shield stacker.

So shields are exclusively a templar problem since they completly remove our main damage ability.

Javelin for a stamplar is weaker than a magicka version, since the magicks version has 40% more damage, unless 40% damage buff is insignificant now?

I've used a build similar to alcasts on my stamplar, but I have just over 400 more weapon damage, never get close to 8k on a javlin, and my wrecking blow does more damage than biting jabs.

So we're down to using entirely weapon class skills only, in which DK sorc and NB all have better passives with, and better self buffs.

Stam sorc has bolt escape (an escspe) and major expedition both in their class skills, which also gives them a weapon damage % increase. Not to mention they get 20% flat buffs to stam and hp regen.

Your comment on shields is very one directional and can be mistaken as the skill not applying any dmg at all. Highly unlikely.

A stam skill, is negated by physical resistance.
This means you need armor piercing more than spell penetration. Because of this, biting jabs hits for more than magicka version. Why? You should have some element of armor penetration, decent weapon dmg, and decent stamina. A magicka user can stack all the spell dmg,magicka, and spell penetration all they want; but they need to fight through the following counters:

1) easily obtainable spell resistance (20k+)
2) a Champion point dump dedicated to reducing overall magic dmg

Physical dmg has the following counter:

1) armor.

That's it. No Champion mitigation, most magical users have to use light armor to even get to the level of burst stamina weapon skills have. That leaves less than 9k armor for stamina opponents.

If you compare biting jabs to the other you should be hitting the following:

-biting jabs = 3-4k per tick
-magicka morph = 1.5-2k. Sometimes it's hitting for 500....

Javelin is superior in its stam morph. Why? Because you get armor penetration!!!! Magicka users have to be at the farthest distance to get 5k jav crits in pvp (for almost 3k magicka per cast.). Check the numbers again.

Sorc's get a great escape. But templars get purifying ritual, an instant cast purge that buffs your healing, removes sorc curse, NB debuffs, negates meteor's targeting, and is cheap to cast. Even as a stamina Templar, if your not using that skill, don't bother playing this class, you under-utilizing it. Combine DW ME buff with purifying ritual, you'll achieve max speed always to run away. Pop an immovable pot so you don't get ccd. There, I just gave you the Templar escape.

Weapon skills, are used by all stam classes. While WB is so good right now (minus the CC bug), it has one simple counter: walk towards player casting it. It stops the attack . Jabs, while easily counterable, still goes letting you get some of your hits. Strongest combo for templars is charge (if not using toppling charge), jav, jabs. Cc ensures you land all 4 hits. Not hitting your jabs? Get ME buffs, L2P templars, and use other skills to throw off your enemy.

Now if biting jabs under performs, post your data showing it. Let's see those numbers.

Puncturing sweeps hits far harder than biting jabs. Want proof?

Alcast actually stopped playing his stam templar, blobafat magicka templar had LESS MAGICKA AND LESS SPELL DAMAGE than he did weapon and stamina, and a LOWER TOOLTIP DAMAGE but his attacks actually hit for MORE DAMAGE.

Want me to repeat that?

WITH A LOWER TOOLTIP VALUE puncturing sweeps and magicks attacks do MORE DAMAGE than biting jabs.

Or are you going to go tell alcast is wrong? He has stopped playing stamplar as he himself says the class is completly broken and usless.

Minno · December 2015

zornyan wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

blur wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Even though it's been proven by people like ALCAST that biting jabs hits for LESS THAN puncturing sweeps.

It also doesn't work on shields.

I have THREE templars at vr16, I don't need some arrogant moron telling me about the class, two are dedicated for pvp, the stam build hits for leas, has less survivability and a major lack of class skills or buffs

My stam dk hits harder and has better self healing and has buffs to increase self healing.

My stam sorc hits harder, had more healing options, has more mobility and escape options and better base raw stats thanks to their passives.

My stam nb just face trolls thanks to stupid easy 3 button combos to insta gib players.

No stam templars are not in a good place, it's morons like you that got blazing shield and radiant destruction nerfed, oh and blazing spears now too, thanks

Makes sweeping statement that Templar has the lowest burst. Even goes as far to say Stam Sorcs have more burst even though Stamina Sorc's DON'T HAVE 1 SINGLE STAM ABILITY outside weapon lines all 4 classes have. On the other hand Stamina Templars have Blinding Javelin which is instant cast with Empower, Major Brut, and over 4k Weapon Damage doing upwards of 8-10k and passives that proc on top of their class based Stam DPS abilities upwards of 5k a pop. Stam Sorcs do not have access to burst like this (via class abilities or passives). Neither do DKs outside of Ult.

Again you keep mentioning Sorc Shields as if they exclusively a problem for Templars only, whereas all 3 other classes get just as screwed. You are being dishonest and ignoring facts to intentionally mislead. I am not the only one who sees this.

You then grandstand that Templars don't have mobility yet they have perma Major Expedition through DW and a Charge that does around 5k damage and stuns players setting up jabs and or Wrecking Blow.

You are lying again about your stam sorc having more options for mobility than a Stamina Templar. You have Lightning Form, Templars have (class) charge, Sorcs dont have (class) charges and Templars dont have a ME buff (outside of DW/Alliance War), that makes them completely even. Regarding escape, only Magicka Sorcs can streak away, Stam will get 2 off and likely still be gap closed by a charge.

You call me a moron, yet you get on here and make the most ignorant and baseless arguments. I provide numbers and even the way to get those numbers and you just continue to ramble on while ignoring the facts. Actually Alcast does not agree with you and if you used his build (which you clearly don't) you would have similar numbers to me.

For the record, I never asked for any nerfs. Nor do I (or ever did) use Blazing Shield/Spears or Radiant Destruction.

You are a very dishonest person and reek of desperation.

Are you just stupid, jabs doesn't actually work on shields at all, it doesn't get 140% damage buff so it would take on average 6-7 casts of biting jabs or sweeps to take down a sorcs hardened ward. It's bugged and uselsss against shields meaning templars can't effectively take down a shield stacker.

So shields are exclusively a templar problem since they completly remove our main damage ability.

Javelin for a stamplar is weaker than a magicka version, since the magicks version has 40% more damage, unless 40% damage buff is insignificant now?

I've used a build similar to alcasts on my stamplar, but I have just over 400 more weapon damage, never get close to 8k on a javlin, and my wrecking blow does more damage than biting jabs.

So we're down to using entirely weapon class skills only, in which DK sorc and NB all have better passives with, and better self buffs.

Stam sorc has bolt escape (an escspe) and major expedition both in their class skills, which also gives them a weapon damage % increase. Not to mention they get 20% flat buffs to stam and hp regen.

Your comment on shields is very one directional and can be mistaken as the skill not applying any dmg at all. Highly unlikely.

A stam skill, is negated by physical resistance.
This means you need armor piercing more than spell penetration. Because of this, biting jabs hits for more than magicka version. Why? You should have some element of armor penetration, decent weapon dmg, and decent stamina. A magicka user can stack all the spell dmg,magicka, and spell penetration all they want; but they need to fight through the following counters:

1) easily obtainable spell resistance (20k+)
2) a Champion point dump dedicated to reducing overall magic dmg

Physical dmg has the following counter:

1) armor.

That's it. No Champion mitigation, most magical users have to use light armor to even get to the level of burst stamina weapon skills have. That leaves less than 9k armor for stamina opponents.

If you compare biting jabs to the other you should be hitting the following:

-biting jabs = 3-4k per tick
-magicka morph = 1.5-2k. Sometimes it's hitting for 500....

Javelin is superior in its stam morph. Why? Because you get armor penetration!!!! Magicka users have to be at the farthest distance to get 5k jav crits in pvp (for almost 3k magicka per cast.). Check the numbers again.

Sorc's get a great escape. But templars get purifying ritual, an instant cast purge that buffs your healing, removes sorc curse, NB debuffs, negates meteor's targeting, and is cheap to cast. Even as a stamina Templar, if your not using that skill, don't bother playing this class, you under-utilizing it. Combine DW ME buff with purifying ritual, you'll achieve max speed always to run away. Pop an immovable pot so you don't get ccd. There, I just gave you the Templar escape.

Weapon skills, are used by all stam classes. While WB is so good right now (minus the CC bug), it has one simple counter: walk towards player casting it. It stops the attack . Jabs, while easily counterable, still goes letting you get some of your hits. Strongest combo for templars is charge (if not using toppling charge), jav, jabs. Cc ensures you land all 4 hits. Not hitting your jabs? Get ME buffs, L2P templars, and use other skills to throw off your enemy.

Now if biting jabs under performs, post your data showing it. Let's see those numbers.

Puncturing sweeps hits far harder than biting jabs. Want proof?

Alcast actually stopped playing his stam templar, blobafat magicka templar had LESS MAGICKA AND LESS SPELL DAMAGE than he did weapon and stamina, and a LOWER TOOLTIP DAMAGE but his attacks actually hit for MORE DAMAGE.

Want me to repeat that?

WITH A LOWER TOOLTIP VALUE puncturing sweeps and magicks attacks do MORE DAMAGE than biting jabs.

Or are you going to go tell alcast is wrong? He has stopped playing stamplar asnot himself says the class is completly broken and usless.

You do know blabafat stacked thaumaturge. At 75 CP, you gain access to 10% increased dmg to off balanced targets. Toppling charge, sets casting targets off balance. Shards sets casting targets off balance.

Blur explained jabs better than I did.
But CP into hardy does not change tooltip. So while blaba might have higher values, his jabs hit for less in pvp due to the half dmg mitigation plus magicka mitigation plus increased spell resistance.

Also, wasn't that thread that alcast started about dmg in pve not pvp? Specifically vet Maelstrom.

zornyan · December 2015

Minno wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

blur wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Even though it's been proven by people like ALCAST that biting jabs hits for LESS THAN puncturing sweeps.

It also doesn't work on shields.

I have THREE templars at vr16, I don't need some arrogant moron telling me about the class, two are dedicated for pvp, the stam build hits for leas, has less survivability and a major lack of class skills or buffs

My stam dk hits harder and has better self healing and has buffs to increase self healing.

My stam sorc hits harder, had more healing options, has more mobility and escape options and better base raw stats thanks to their passives.

My stam nb just face trolls thanks to stupid easy 3 button combos to insta gib players.

No stam templars are not in a good place, it's morons like you that got blazing shield and radiant destruction nerfed, oh and blazing spears now too, thanks

Makes sweeping statement that Templar has the lowest burst. Even goes as far to say Stam Sorcs have more burst even though Stamina Sorc's DON'T HAVE 1 SINGLE STAM ABILITY outside weapon lines all 4 classes have. On the other hand Stamina Templars have Blinding Javelin which is instant cast with Empower, Major Brut, and over 4k Weapon Damage doing upwards of 8-10k and passives that proc on top of their class based Stam DPS abilities upwards of 5k a pop. Stam Sorcs do not have access to burst like this (via class abilities or passives). Neither do DKs outside of Ult.

Again you keep mentioning Sorc Shields as if they exclusively a problem for Templars only, whereas all 3 other classes get just as screwed. You are being dishonest and ignoring facts to intentionally mislead. I am not the only one who sees this.

You then grandstand that Templars don't have mobility yet they have perma Major Expedition through DW and a Charge that does around 5k damage and stuns players setting up jabs and or Wrecking Blow.

You are lying again about your stam sorc having more options for mobility than a Stamina Templar. You have Lightning Form, Templars have (class) charge, Sorcs dont have (class) charges and Templars dont have a ME buff (outside of DW/Alliance War), that makes them completely even. Regarding escape, only Magicka Sorcs can streak away, Stam will get 2 off and likely still be gap closed by a charge.

You call me a moron, yet you get on here and make the most ignorant and baseless arguments. I provide numbers and even the way to get those numbers and you just continue to ramble on while ignoring the facts. Actually Alcast does not agree with you and if you used his build (which you clearly don't) you would have similar numbers to me.

For the record, I never asked for any nerfs. Nor do I (or ever did) use Blazing Shield/Spears or Radiant Destruction.

You are a very dishonest person and reek of desperation.

Are you just stupid, jabs doesn't actually work on shields at all, it doesn't get 140% damage buff so it would take on average 6-7 casts of biting jabs or sweeps to take down a sorcs hardened ward. It's bugged and uselsss against shields meaning templars can't effectively take down a shield stacker.

So shields are exclusively a templar problem since they completly remove our main damage ability.

Javelin for a stamplar is weaker than a magicka version, since the magicks version has 40% more damage, unless 40% damage buff is insignificant now?

I've used a build similar to alcasts on my stamplar, but I have just over 400 more weapon damage, never get close to 8k on a javlin, and my wrecking blow does more damage than biting jabs.

So we're down to using entirely weapon class skills only, in which DK sorc and NB all have better passives with, and better self buffs.

Stam sorc has bolt escape (an escspe) and major expedition both in their class skills, which also gives them a weapon damage % increase. Not to mention they get 20% flat buffs to stam and hp regen.

Your comment on shields is very one directional and can be mistaken as the skill not applying any dmg at all. Highly unlikely.

A stam skill, is negated by physical resistance.
This means you need armor piercing more than spell penetration. Because of this, biting jabs hits for more than magicka version. Why? You should have some element of armor penetration, decent weapon dmg, and decent stamina. A magicka user can stack all the spell dmg,magicka, and spell penetration all they want; but they need to fight through the following counters:

1) easily obtainable spell resistance (20k+)
2) a Champion point dump dedicated to reducing overall magic dmg

Physical dmg has the following counter:

1) armor.

That's it. No Champion mitigation, most magical users have to use light armor to even get to the level of burst stamina weapon skills have. That leaves less than 9k armor for stamina opponents.

If you compare biting jabs to the other you should be hitting the following:

-biting jabs = 3-4k per tick
-magicka morph = 1.5-2k. Sometimes it's hitting for 500....

Javelin is superior in its stam morph. Why? Because you get armor penetration!!!! Magicka users have to be at the farthest distance to get 5k jav crits in pvp (for almost 3k magicka per cast.). Check the numbers again.

Sorc's get a great escape. But templars get purifying ritual, an instant cast purge that buffs your healing, removes sorc curse, NB debuffs, negates meteor's targeting, and is cheap to cast. Even as a stamina Templar, if your not using that skill, don't bother playing this class, you under-utilizing it. Combine DW ME buff with purifying ritual, you'll achieve max speed always to run away. Pop an immovable pot so you don't get ccd. There, I just gave you the Templar escape.

Weapon skills, are used by all stam classes. While WB is so good right now (minus the CC bug), it has one simple counter: walk towards player casting it. It stops the attack . Jabs, while easily counterable, still goes letting you get some of your hits. Strongest combo for templars is charge (if not using toppling charge), jav, jabs. Cc ensures you land all 4 hits. Not hitting your jabs? Get ME buffs, L2P templars, and use other skills to throw off your enemy.

Now if biting jabs under performs, post your data showing it. Let's see those numbers.

Puncturing sweeps hits far harder than biting jabs. Want proof?

Alcast actually stopped playing his stam templar, blobafat magicka templar had LESS MAGICKA AND LESS SPELL DAMAGE than he did weapon and stamina, and a LOWER TOOLTIP DAMAGE but his attacks actually hit for MORE DAMAGE.

Want me to repeat that?

WITH A LOWER TOOLTIP VALUE puncturing sweeps and magicks attacks do MORE DAMAGE than biting jabs.

Or are you going to go tell alcast is wrong? He has stopped playing stamplar asnot himself says the class is completly broken and usless.

You do know blabafat stacked thaumaturge. At 75 CP, you gain access to 10% increased dmg to off balanced targets. Toppling charge, sets casting targets off balance. Shards sets casting targets off balance.

Blur explained jabs better than I did.
But CP into hardy does not change tooltip. So while blaba might have higher values, his jabs hit for less in pvp due to the half dmg mitigation plus magicka mitigation plus increased spell resistance.

Also, wasn't that thread that alcast started about dmg in pve not pvp? Specifically vet Maelstrom.

That was the initial post, they made some more tests and others tested it too, it was not on off balance targets, overall puncturing sweeps was hitting harder crit for crit, also burning light was doing a chunk more damage since thumatauge buffs burning light passive as well. So that's another 25% damage that stamplars are missing out on.

Also some classes may have more spell resistance, when specced for it, but most stam builds in pvp have equal physical and spell resistance, to add to that, most msgicks users have.

5k pen light armor passive
We HAVE to put 29 points into spell erosion for another 10%
Nirnhoned weapon for another 18% pen.

So straight off the bat my magiplar has a *** load of penetration.

blur · December 2015

Minno wrote: »

Blur explained jabs better than I did.
But CP into hardy does not change tooltip. So while blaba might have higher values, his jabs hit for less in pvp due to the half dmg mitigation plus magicka mitigation plus increased spell resistance.

Also, wasn't that thread that alcast started about dmg in pve not pvp? Specifically vet Maelstrom.

Yes it was about PvE.
You are being hoodwinked into a paradigm shift.

AfkNinja · December 2015

blur wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

blur wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

blur wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

blur wrote: »

Mumyo wrote: »

im hoenst with you, orcs are the better nords and nords are really really bad, especially for templars.

Templar is also not the best choice, the game is ruled by nb and sorc.

Probably the most uninformative post you could get.

Nords are fine, as are Templars, particularly stam.

Stam templar

Lowest dps in pve
Lowest burst in pvp
Lowest self healing
No mobility

Yeah their fine..

Lowest burst? They have more burst than Stamina Sorcs... not to mention over 4k weapon damage at all times when geared properly. Oh and let's not forget a ranged ability that does upwards of 8k which has a knockdown and 3s CC. They also have a passive that procs about 4.6-5k damage everytime you do damage with your Aedric abilities.

Lowest self-healing? Have you ever used Repentance, Rally and Vigor together? I have 0 problems getting full health. If I were a Nord it would be even easier. Repentance is one of the best skills in the game. Not to mention having Purify and Channeled Focus which brings your magic resist over 20k and adds a ton of armor while regenerating your magicka...

No mobility? They have access to Toppling Charge (templar only), Crit Rush/Stampede, Retreating Maneuvers, and Quick Cloak. Most good Stamina Templars run DW so there is no reason NOT to make use of Quick Cloak. Also having 2h on your 2nd bar gives you Stampede which you would be foolish not to use as it sets people up to get jabbed.

Yeah they really have the lowest burst, self healing and 0 mobility... /sarcasm

Before you continue to be a fountain of misinformation, you should stop parroting other ignorant people and learn how the class works. Templars are insanely good if you know how to play them.

Really toppling charge is MOBILITY? Jesus Christ please tell me how that works as an effective escape like cloak/bolt escape. ...

Oh wait tell me how good toppling is on a Stamina build. ..

Burst yes, lowest burst, you know an instant hitting hard attack, channeled focus is the worst armor resist buff in the game, it only last 8 seconds, others like sorc and DK last 20 seconds and give other benefits.

You listed a bunch of skills that aren't templar so their irrelevant.

Stam sorcs have more healing than templars, as crit surge works along side rally and vigor (again not class skills) they also lose all restoring tree skills and passives being stam, so have the least amount of healing buffs.

DK for instance can use shield + coagulating blood to get major and minor mending for increased healing, a templar gets nothing.

A stam sorc will have the same, if not more base damage than a stam templar, not to mention they also get +8% stam so will have a ton more stamina too.

Stam templars have 2 class skills, biting jabs CAN do great damage, but you rely on 25% chance of proc, and the fact that in pvp 90% of the time a minimum of one hit misses or doesn't count as landing, also biting jabs doesn't apply 140% damage to shields, so it doesn't even tickle shields.

In a real world scenario wrecking blow does more damage than jabs.

Repentance is only useful if bodies are around, it's useless 1v1, it's useful for trash mobs, that's about it.

Also a stam sorc will have a base 20% buff to stam and hp recovery, that stacks with 20% from potions, a templar can only get 10% if they slot a skill.

First off your argument is all over the place, you should really think before you type.

So a charge isn't mobility? Maybe you should offer a definition to what mobility means. Oh wait, let me do that for you:

mobility
/məʊˈbɪlɪtɪ/
noun
1.
the ability to move physically: a knee operation has restricted his mobility, mobility is part of physical education

Please explain to me how a charge is not mobile. Let alone why you chose to pigeonhole my response into one skill "toppling charge" when I mentioned Quick Cloak, Stampede/Crit Rush, and Retreating Maneuvers? Did you do this because you don't have a leg to stand on? Please explain how Quick Cloak, Stampede, and RM are also not mobility? Also how do you go from saying "stam temps have No mobility" to "effective escape like cloak/bolt escape."? Which is it? They either have no mobility or now we are comparing skills to other classes? You reek of desperation.

To answer your ridiculous question about Toppling Charge, it works fine. It's a ranged gap closer that uses magicka, something I rarely use outside of Purify and Total Dark. But seeing that you are trying to pick apart my response ala Strawman, let me be clear, I did not say TC was the most optimal, nor did I say it was for damage. I simply said it was one of many forms of mobility and it works for Stam Temps. Again, you said "Stam Temps have 0 mobility." You could not be more wrong.

Now onto burst... Please explain to me how a Stamina Sorc has more burst than a Stamina Templar. You seem to have some secret knowledge that pro Stam Sorcs like Xael and Fengrush don't. Stamina Sorcs outside of Lightning Form have no innate skills that function as damage for a stamina build. Streak is Magicka based, and the only other ability the majority of Stamina Sorcs use is Crit Surge which is a buff. That said, all the damage from a Stamina Sorc comes from 2h abilities like WB, Crit Rush, and Executioner. When on the secondary bar it's Steel Tornado and Caltrops (for those who have it unlocked). Not all stamina sorcs take Bound Armaments. Also not all Stamina Sorcs use an Overload bar. Some prefer Flawless Dawnbreaker and/or Atronach.

Templars have Stamina based abilities that not only scale off weapon damage AND stamina, but they have passives that work alongside them. Take for example Burning Light which procs for over 5k damage while jabbing or chucking spears. They also have a ranged ability that does anywhere from 8-10k damage when buffed. So no, a Stamina Sorc is nowhere near as bursty as a Stamina Templar. In fact it's fair to say a Stamina Sorc has nothing unique to add to their damage outside of an execute passive that requires you to be in close proximity with your boundless storm.

Also why the hell are you are even mentioning shields? This applies to all stam dps classes. Do you think a Stamina Sorc has some type of special attack (one that other classes lack) that goes through shield? Are you really this bad at debating that you think mentioning shields somehow singles out Templars and leaves Nightblades, Sorcs, and DK's attacks outside of the equation? Again, go back and read my response on Stam Sorc DPS. There is no damn way you play a high end Stam Sorc and make these weak arguments. Unless you are so filled with pride that you have become given over to myopia.

You said in a real world scenario Wrecking Blow does more damage than Jabs. This is not true at all. First of all a Wrecking Blow is telegraphed and can be anticipated. If a geared Stam Temp procs Burning Light on his jabs he will easily outdamage a WB. Your statement is false and relies on jugglery of statistics or the gift of prophecy to be accurate.

You said

zornyan wrote: »

You listed a bunch of skills that aren't templar so their irrelevant.

By this you mean what? Stampede, Crit Rush, Retreat M, and Quick Cloak? Things that give mobility that you said don't exist for a Stamina Templar? Or do you mean Vigor and Rally? Skills every Stamina class practically need to survive (other than certain DKs)? Please show me in your original statement where you mentioned skills need to be baseline only. Or is this another weak attempt to paradigm shift?

Now onto selfhealing... You said Stam Sorcs have Crit Surge that helps them heal. Wow, bravo! Guess what? Nightblades also have a skill Mark Target that allows them to heal when they kill someone with the Mark on. Just like Crit Rush, there is a necessary variable (mechanic) that needs to happen in order to even get the heal. The Sorc needs to disable their target and then create distance and Crit Rush to get a big heal. Just like an NB needs to kill something with Mark on it, the Templar needs corpses (which are very common in IC / Cyro fights). But Sorcs that are stam always use Rally and/or Vigor because Crit Rush/Surge combo does not always cut it as you can't always count on being able to create distance heal, especially when 1vX or low on resources. The truth of the matter is, Repentance and Rally/Vigor fill up my 20k health easily all the time. I don't have any issues with self healing.

I don't care about what DKs have. Not once did I compare a Templar to a DK and I certainly wasn't the one to say Temps are the worst at selfhealing.

You also say Channeled Focus is worthless because it lasts 6 seconds. Newsflash, Nightblades Shadow Barrier lasts for 2 seconds. Whereas Channeled Focus lasts for 15 seconds and recovers my Magicka. It lasts for 9 seconds if I leave Rune's radius. So you are wrong on both counts, again, please take the time to educate yourself before you spout off.

You also said a Stam Sorc will have 20% regen, whereas a Temp will only have 10 if they slot a skill. Newsflash again, the same can be said about a Sorc. The sorc is required to slot a Daedric Summoning ability on both bars in order to make use of the regen. Which means they either need to run BA or use the Atronach ultimate. Both of these classes can stack these passive effects with potions.Of course all of this is moot as your argument (originally pre paradigm shift) was that Temps have the worst self healing, which is total horseshit as NBs are in a way worse situation.

Please just stop. It's not my responsibility to educate you. Before you come back and try to razzle dazzle the forum readers, get your facts straight.

Well since most experienced pvpers all agree stamplar is the bottom of the pool then I think that says something.

I said shields as a stam dk can activate his class shield and gets major mending, a massive healing buff.

So when you cast vigor and get an 11k heal, they get a 16k heal.

In actual combat templars have vigor and rally, that's it, repentance is useless 1v1 or open world pvp, unless you literally stand there waiting to kill one person, then stand there waiting for another person to come just at the right time.

Do templars have no class healing, nor any healing passives that help like other classes have access to.

Mobility means actually being mobile, for instance a sorc sees a zerg incoming? They want to escape a battle they are losing? Bolt escape.

An NB in the same situation? Cloak

DK and temp have no mobility

You said biting jabs does more damage, but that requires all 4 hits to land (which basically never happens in experienced pvp) AND you require a proc that's a 25% chance, so technically it could outdamage wrecking blpw, but it could also do a chunk leas damage too. RNG is a bit crap like that.

Also jabs doesn't work on shields as it doesn't apply the 140% damage buff, so jabs is useless against a sorc.

You day wrecking blow is telegraphed, but it can be animation canceled, I can land a wrecking blow+ med attack+ an instant attack in the time it takes to land one biting jabs, as jabs can't be cancelled due to it being a channel.

Let me get this right

Stam temp, slot repentance on both bars for 10% all regen

Stam sorc, slot bound armaments on both bars for 10% mag and 20% stam and hp regen and heavy attack damage increase AND 8% max stam AND 1k extra resistances...

So in an average build of 36k stamina, 8% is what? 3300 stam more than the templar can ever have, which guess what? Equates to more damage, approx 300 weapon damage extra.

What most experienced PvPers say Stam Templars are at the bottom of the pool? Considering the people on the forum whine about the most ridiculous horseshit imaginable, I really don't care what the majority opinion is. It's a fart in the wind. I can't tell you how often I see people parroting other people not knowing their ass from their elbow.
Stamina Templars are ridiculously strong in the hands of a good player, period.

I don't care about DKs healing stop bringing it up. It's irrelevant to this discussion. Nobody is contesting the DK's OP survivability or sustainable healing. They are leaps and bounds ahead of everything. I (and others) have always said "if I mained a DK I would make Cyrodiil my toilet." That's no bold claim, a simple fact, they are op as hell You won't get any argument out of me regarding DK's unless you try and pander that Stam DKs are weak, etc.

Repentance is not useless in 1v1. Especially if you prepare your killing ground ahead of time. For example you bait your opponent into a somewhat dense area of mobs that are easily AoE'd down. I'm not saying you need to do this for all fights as it would be too much effort to put into making 1 ability relevant. I am however saying to take things into consideration, particularly your surroundings. I use Repentance all the damn time and more than 3/4 of my fights it gets used several times. I am also a predominantly solo player unless I join a small group of 2-3 buds. Regardless of what kind of mileage you think you will get (not sure you even play a stamina templar at max level in PvP), or whatever you do get, I get plenty as do others. Moreover you get 10% tri-stat regen for just having it slotted.

You asked the question do templars have any class healing or any passives that other classes have access to. Yes. As stated, repentance works, albeit gimmicky, but then again, so does Sorc healing and Nightblades are even worse than Temps and Sorcs. That said, your original statement is false. A stamina NB has no way to class heal outside of a killing blow with Mark Target and/or Killer's Blade. At least you can still have your Restoring Light at 50, slot HtD/BoL and make use of the passives. Even this sub-optimal healing is better than anything a Stamina Nightblade can do outside of Vigor/Rally.

Mobility was defined already. Mobility is a speed buff, gap closer or method of escape. What you are doing is jugglery. You are now taking a word and reducing it to an "escape." This is disingenuous.

When people refer to themselves as a "mobile skirmisher" it's not because they can cloak or streak per se. It means they can close distance rapidly and engage or disengage. This is not exclusive to disappearing or teleporting across the map.

First off, the DK does not have a gap closer of any kind outside of weapon skills like Invasion, Crit Rush/Stampede. They have no innate speed buff outside of Assault and Dual Wield. That said, DKs have 0 mobility as far as class abilities go. Templars have a charge. Just like Sorcs, their innate mobility skill functions off the Magicka resource. NBs at least get Ambush which uses and scales with Stamina. That said, Sorcs and Templars are tied. More importantly, Templars can Charge more often than Sorcs can Streak. As a Stamina Sorc you will get maybe 3 streaks off before you have no magicka. More often than not you will have 2. Saying Templars have no mobility is false, even if you misappropriate the word.

I did not saying Biting Jabs does more damage. What I did say was that Biting Jabs from a well geared Stam Temp when proccing Burning Light will outdamage WB. Mind you there is also context to my response you are ignoring. You said flat out "in a real world scenario Wrecking Blow does more damage than Jabs." A statement such as this has many variables you are ignoring and requires you to manipulate statistics in a favorable manner. Considering the undefined variables to this blanket statement, it's moot. Now I do agree with what you said about RNG. RNG can be a cruel mistress. However you said Jabs almost never lands in experienced PvP. I disagree. I will say inexperienced Stamina Templars can't land their jabs because they don't properly set them up. Jabs lands for me more often than not. Why? I set them up predicated on a hard CC and/or a nice snare from Stampede. Stampede is a must if you want to make the most out of Jabs. In fact I dare say don't even bother using Jabs if you don't set up with Stampede first. IF that's the case then yes, you are correct about WB being superior as it becomes much more reliable.

Again, you make the "shield" argument. Not sure why this is relevant. Several abilities from DKs NBs and Sorcs also get countered by shields. Mentioning Shields as an attempt to single out Jabs is kind of pointless. Also nobody said Jabs is the be all end all or that I won't have a rock paper scissors experience. I have come to accept my limitation against shield stacking Sorcs with Biting Jabs and use other methods like hitting the power button on my pc

Yes I understand the WB>HA>Exe weave. Xael was doing this in his streams a year ago and it's who I learned it from. However this does not mask the WB animation as you dig deep with your wind up and then switch swings to begin your HA. Once I see the familiar WB wind up I automatically assume the assrape is on it's way. That's not to say it's going to land or not land, but rather that it's visible and telegraphed. I do agree with you that it's more efficient to have a triple combo than a HA/Jab channel weave, however that's still ignoring certain variables. Allow me to explain:
Scenario 1: Both players are relatively full Health, Assrape McGee charges in does his WB/HA/Exe weave. What you don't realize is his target popped vigor and has rally ticking, maybe even a potion as well. Regardless this weave only gets the target to around 50% health (for other unmentioned variables, gear/1hS/CP etc). That said, the Exe part of the weave does minimal damage.
Scenario 2: Crit-Knee Spears uses BlindJav/Stampedes into her opponent and does the typical HA/Jab weave. Before she chucked her Spear she popped Rally for Major Brut and cast Entropy for Empower. Javelin did about 8k to target. Since Crit-Knee followed it up immediately with Stampede she is immediately on top of snared opponent who used Break Free to get out of the knockdown. Because target is snared Crit-Knee lands all of her jabs and 2 of them proc Burning Light doing about 10k damage. Target died.

Now I understand PvP is random and sometimes things just don't work out. This is universal regardless of build or class. But those 2 scenarios I mentioned can and do happen all the damn time. I main a Stamina Sorc and play a Templar when not playing my Sorc. On my Sorc I use the hell out of WB as I have no real burst without it. My Templar on the other hand does a hell of a lot more damage. It's not a CP thing or a gear thing as I have only one set of gear that I bank swap between the two (thanks ZOS for making v16 gear a real hassle). Templars just have better passives and skills that scale with Stamina play.

No, I didn't say slot Rep on both bars. If I had to do that I would be very unhappy. I only have it on my main bar (DW). The only time I bar switch is to heal/buff and Stampede. I spend the majority of my time on the DW bar. That said, I keep Rep there.

Regarding BA, you need it on both bars. It does not give you Magicka Regen. The passive that gives you Magicka Regen is Capacitor in the Storm line. You just get flat Magicka Recovery, no skill slotting needed. Also not every stam sorc uses BA. Take Xael and Fengrush, those dudes are hands down the best Stam Sorcs and neither of them are running that skill. Also with 36k you only get about 2880 extra Stam. It's tooltip damage is negligible. Though the 11% HA damage is nice. Also that extra Stamina is not 300 weapon damage. You seem to forget the Aedric Spear passive called Balanced Warrior that gives 6% weapon damage and 2k spell resist.

Regardless of BA, Stamina Sorc damage all comes from 2h abilities and/or Caltrop/Steel Tornado spam. That said, no matter how much stamina you have (btw my Templar has more than my Sorc) the tooltip damage on 2h abilities doesn't go up much from the 8% addition. Whereas Templars still have a spammable ranged ability that does 8-10k and also can proc the Burning Light passive. Stam Sorc's have nothing like this. Hopefully Wrobel will give us a Stam based Frag from the crap morph nobody uses.

Again, Stamina Templars when played/built right are really good. Regardless of what people whine about, remember, if you tell a lie long enough loud enough, it eventually becomes truth. Consider the nonsense people have been parroting on the forums since 1.6.

Your post is filled with so much incorrect information and assumptions I literally do not have the time to respond to it all. I suggest you educate yourself by reading other Templar forums because you clearly have never played Stamina Templar.

blur · December 2015

AfkNinja wrote: »

blur wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

blur wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

blur wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

blur wrote: »

Mumyo wrote: »

im hoenst with you, orcs are the better nords and nords are really really bad, especially for templars.

Templar is also not the best choice, the game is ruled by nb and sorc.

Probably the most uninformative post you could get.

Nords are fine, as are Templars, particularly stam.

Stam templar

Lowest dps in pve
Lowest burst in pvp
Lowest self healing
No mobility

Yeah their fine..

Lowest burst? They have more burst than Stamina Sorcs... not to mention over 4k weapon damage at all times when geared properly. Oh and let's not forget a ranged ability that does upwards of 8k which has a knockdown and 3s CC. They also have a passive that procs about 4.6-5k damage everytime you do damage with your Aedric abilities.

Lowest self-healing? Have you ever used Repentance, Rally and Vigor together? I have 0 problems getting full health. If I were a Nord it would be even easier. Repentance is one of the best skills in the game. Not to mention having Purify and Channeled Focus which brings your magic resist over 20k and adds a ton of armor while regenerating your magicka...

No mobility? They have access to Toppling Charge (templar only), Crit Rush/Stampede, Retreating Maneuvers, and Quick Cloak. Most good Stamina Templars run DW so there is no reason NOT to make use of Quick Cloak. Also having 2h on your 2nd bar gives you Stampede which you would be foolish not to use as it sets people up to get jabbed.

Yeah they really have the lowest burst, self healing and 0 mobility... /sarcasm

Before you continue to be a fountain of misinformation, you should stop parroting other ignorant people and learn how the class works. Templars are insanely good if you know how to play them.

Really toppling charge is MOBILITY? Jesus Christ please tell me how that works as an effective escape like cloak/bolt escape. ...

Oh wait tell me how good toppling is on a Stamina build. ..

Burst yes, lowest burst, you know an instant hitting hard attack, channeled focus is the worst armor resist buff in the game, it only last 8 seconds, others like sorc and DK last 20 seconds and give other benefits.

You listed a bunch of skills that aren't templar so their irrelevant.

Stam sorcs have more healing than templars, as crit surge works along side rally and vigor (again not class skills) they also lose all restoring tree skills and passives being stam, so have the least amount of healing buffs.

DK for instance can use shield + coagulating blood to get major and minor mending for increased healing, a templar gets nothing.

A stam sorc will have the same, if not more base damage than a stam templar, not to mention they also get +8% stam so will have a ton more stamina too.

Stam templars have 2 class skills, biting jabs CAN do great damage, but you rely on 25% chance of proc, and the fact that in pvp 90% of the time a minimum of one hit misses or doesn't count as landing, also biting jabs doesn't apply 140% damage to shields, so it doesn't even tickle shields.

In a real world scenario wrecking blow does more damage than jabs.

Repentance is only useful if bodies are around, it's useless 1v1, it's useful for trash mobs, that's about it.

Also a stam sorc will have a base 20% buff to stam and hp recovery, that stacks with 20% from potions, a templar can only get 10% if they slot a skill.

First off your argument is all over the place, you should really think before you type.

So a charge isn't mobility? Maybe you should offer a definition to what mobility means. Oh wait, let me do that for you:

mobility
/məʊˈbɪlɪtɪ/
noun
1.
the ability to move physically: a knee operation has restricted his mobility, mobility is part of physical education

Please explain to me how a charge is not mobile. Let alone why you chose to pigeonhole my response into one skill "toppling charge" when I mentioned Quick Cloak, Stampede/Crit Rush, and Retreating Maneuvers? Did you do this because you don't have a leg to stand on? Please explain how Quick Cloak, Stampede, and RM are also not mobility? Also how do you go from saying "stam temps have No mobility" to "effective escape like cloak/bolt escape."? Which is it? They either have no mobility or now we are comparing skills to other classes? You reek of desperation.

To answer your ridiculous question about Toppling Charge, it works fine. It's a ranged gap closer that uses magicka, something I rarely use outside of Purify and Total Dark. But seeing that you are trying to pick apart my response ala Strawman, let me be clear, I did not say TC was the most optimal, nor did I say it was for damage. I simply said it was one of many forms of mobility and it works for Stam Temps. Again, you said "Stam Temps have 0 mobility." You could not be more wrong.

Now onto burst... Please explain to me how a Stamina Sorc has more burst than a Stamina Templar. You seem to have some secret knowledge that pro Stam Sorcs like Xael and Fengrush don't. Stamina Sorcs outside of Lightning Form have no innate skills that function as damage for a stamina build. Streak is Magicka based, and the only other ability the majority of Stamina Sorcs use is Crit Surge which is a buff. That said, all the damage from a Stamina Sorc comes from 2h abilities like WB, Crit Rush, and Executioner. When on the secondary bar it's Steel Tornado and Caltrops (for those who have it unlocked). Not all stamina sorcs take Bound Armaments. Also not all Stamina Sorcs use an Overload bar. Some prefer Flawless Dawnbreaker and/or Atronach.

Templars have Stamina based abilities that not only scale off weapon damage AND stamina, but they have passives that work alongside them. Take for example Burning Light which procs for over 5k damage while jabbing or chucking spears. They also have a ranged ability that does anywhere from 8-10k damage when buffed. So no, a Stamina Sorc is nowhere near as bursty as a Stamina Templar. In fact it's fair to say a Stamina Sorc has nothing unique to add to their damage outside of an execute passive that requires you to be in close proximity with your boundless storm.

Also why the hell are you are even mentioning shields? This applies to all stam dps classes. Do you think a Stamina Sorc has some type of special attack (one that other classes lack) that goes through shield? Are you really this bad at debating that you think mentioning shields somehow singles out Templars and leaves Nightblades, Sorcs, and DK's attacks outside of the equation? Again, go back and read my response on Stam Sorc DPS. There is no damn way you play a high end Stam Sorc and make these weak arguments. Unless you are so filled with pride that you have become given over to myopia.

You said in a real world scenario Wrecking Blow does more damage than Jabs. This is not true at all. First of all a Wrecking Blow is telegraphed and can be anticipated. If a geared Stam Temp procs Burning Light on his jabs he will easily outdamage a WB. Your statement is false and relies on jugglery of statistics or the gift of prophecy to be accurate.

You said

zornyan wrote: »

You listed a bunch of skills that aren't templar so their irrelevant.

By this you mean what? Stampede, Crit Rush, Retreat M, and Quick Cloak? Things that give mobility that you said don't exist for a Stamina Templar? Or do you mean Vigor and Rally? Skills every Stamina class practically need to survive (other than certain DKs)? Please show me in your original statement where you mentioned skills need to be baseline only. Or is this another weak attempt to paradigm shift?

Now onto selfhealing... You said Stam Sorcs have Crit Surge that helps them heal. Wow, bravo! Guess what? Nightblades also have a skill Mark Target that allows them to heal when they kill someone with the Mark on. Just like Crit Rush, there is a necessary variable (mechanic) that needs to happen in order to even get the heal. The Sorc needs to disable their target and then create distance and Crit Rush to get a big heal. Just like an NB needs to kill something with Mark on it, the Templar needs corpses (which are very common in IC / Cyro fights). But Sorcs that are stam always use Rally and/or Vigor because Crit Rush/Surge combo does not always cut it as you can't always count on being able to create distance heal, especially when 1vX or low on resources. The truth of the matter is, Repentance and Rally/Vigor fill up my 20k health easily all the time. I don't have any issues with self healing.

I don't care about what DKs have. Not once did I compare a Templar to a DK and I certainly wasn't the one to say Temps are the worst at selfhealing.

You also say Channeled Focus is worthless because it lasts 6 seconds. Newsflash, Nightblades Shadow Barrier lasts for 2 seconds. Whereas Channeled Focus lasts for 15 seconds and recovers my Magicka. It lasts for 9 seconds if I leave Rune's radius. So you are wrong on both counts, again, please take the time to educate yourself before you spout off.

You also said a Stam Sorc will have 20% regen, whereas a Temp will only have 10 if they slot a skill. Newsflash again, the same can be said about a Sorc. The sorc is required to slot a Daedric Summoning ability on both bars in order to make use of the regen. Which means they either need to run BA or use the Atronach ultimate. Both of these classes can stack these passive effects with potions.Of course all of this is moot as your argument (originally pre paradigm shift) was that Temps have the worst self healing, which is total horseshit as NBs are in a way worse situation.

Please just stop. It's not my responsibility to educate you. Before you come back and try to razzle dazzle the forum readers, get your facts straight.

Well since most experienced pvpers all agree stamplar is the bottom of the pool then I think that says something.

I said shields as a stam dk can activate his class shield and gets major mending, a massive healing buff.

So when you cast vigor and get an 11k heal, they get a 16k heal.

In actual combat templars have vigor and rally, that's it, repentance is useless 1v1 or open world pvp, unless you literally stand there waiting to kill one person, then stand there waiting for another person to come just at the right time.

Do templars have no class healing, nor any healing passives that help like other classes have access to.

Mobility means actually being mobile, for instance a sorc sees a zerg incoming? They want to escape a battle they are losing? Bolt escape.

An NB in the same situation? Cloak

DK and temp have no mobility

You said biting jabs does more damage, but that requires all 4 hits to land (which basically never happens in experienced pvp) AND you require a proc that's a 25% chance, so technically it could outdamage wrecking blpw, but it could also do a chunk leas damage too. RNG is a bit crap like that.

Also jabs doesn't work on shields as it doesn't apply the 140% damage buff, so jabs is useless against a sorc.

You day wrecking blow is telegraphed, but it can be animation canceled, I can land a wrecking blow+ med attack+ an instant attack in the time it takes to land one biting jabs, as jabs can't be cancelled due to it being a channel.

Let me get this right

Stam temp, slot repentance on both bars for 10% all regen

Stam sorc, slot bound armaments on both bars for 10% mag and 20% stam and hp regen and heavy attack damage increase AND 8% max stam AND 1k extra resistances...

So in an average build of 36k stamina, 8% is what? 3300 stam more than the templar can ever have, which guess what? Equates to more damage, approx 300 weapon damage extra.

What most experienced PvPers say Stam Templars are at the bottom of the pool? Considering the people on the forum whine about the most ridiculous horseshit imaginable, I really don't care what the majority opinion is. It's a fart in the wind. I can't tell you how often I see people parroting other people not knowing their ass from their elbow.
Stamina Templars are ridiculously strong in the hands of a good player, period.

I don't care about DKs healing stop bringing it up. It's irrelevant to this discussion. Nobody is contesting the DK's OP survivability or sustainable healing. They are leaps and bounds ahead of everything. I (and others) have always said "if I mained a DK I would make Cyrodiil my toilet." That's no bold claim, a simple fact, they are op as hell You won't get any argument out of me regarding DK's unless you try and pander that Stam DKs are weak, etc.

Repentance is not useless in 1v1. Especially if you prepare your killing ground ahead of time. For example you bait your opponent into a somewhat dense area of mobs that are easily AoE'd down. I'm not saying you need to do this for all fights as it would be too much effort to put into making 1 ability relevant. I am however saying to take things into consideration, particularly your surroundings. I use Repentance all the damn time and more than 3/4 of my fights it gets used several times. I am also a predominantly solo player unless I join a small group of 2-3 buds. Regardless of what kind of mileage you think you will get (not sure you even play a stamina templar at max level in PvP), or whatever you do get, I get plenty as do others. Moreover you get 10% tri-stat regen for just having it slotted.

You asked the question do templars have any class healing or any passives that other classes have access to. Yes. As stated, repentance works, albeit gimmicky, but then again, so does Sorc healing and Nightblades are even worse than Temps and Sorcs. That said, your original statement is false. A stamina NB has no way to class heal outside of a killing blow with Mark Target and/or Killer's Blade. At least you can still have your Restoring Light at 50, slot HtD/BoL and make use of the passives. Even this sub-optimal healing is better than anything a Stamina Nightblade can do outside of Vigor/Rally.

Mobility was defined already. Mobility is a speed buff, gap closer or method of escape. What you are doing is jugglery. You are now taking a word and reducing it to an "escape." This is disingenuous.

When people refer to themselves as a "mobile skirmisher" it's not because they can cloak or streak per se. It means they can close distance rapidly and engage or disengage. This is not exclusive to disappearing or teleporting across the map.

First off, the DK does not have a gap closer of any kind outside of weapon skills like Invasion, Crit Rush/Stampede. They have no innate speed buff outside of Assault and Dual Wield. That said, DKs have 0 mobility as far as class abilities go. Templars have a charge. Just like Sorcs, their innate mobility skill functions off the Magicka resource. NBs at least get Ambush which uses and scales with Stamina. That said, Sorcs and Templars are tied. More importantly, Templars can Charge more often than Sorcs can Streak. As a Stamina Sorc you will get maybe 3 streaks off before you have no magicka. More often than not you will have 2. Saying Templars have no mobility is false, even if you misappropriate the word.

I did not saying Biting Jabs does more damage. What I did say was that Biting Jabs from a well geared Stam Temp when proccing Burning Light will outdamage WB. Mind you there is also context to my response you are ignoring. You said flat out "in a real world scenario Wrecking Blow does more damage than Jabs." A statement such as this has many variables you are ignoring and requires you to manipulate statistics in a favorable manner. Considering the undefined variables to this blanket statement, it's moot. Now I do agree with what you said about RNG. RNG can be a cruel mistress. However you said Jabs almost never lands in experienced PvP. I disagree. I will say inexperienced Stamina Templars can't land their jabs because they don't properly set them up. Jabs lands for me more often than not. Why? I set them up predicated on a hard CC and/or a nice snare from Stampede. Stampede is a must if you want to make the most out of Jabs. In fact I dare say don't even bother using Jabs if you don't set up with Stampede first. IF that's the case then yes, you are correct about WB being superior as it becomes much more reliable.

Again, you make the "shield" argument. Not sure why this is relevant. Several abilities from DKs NBs and Sorcs also get countered by shields. Mentioning Shields as an attempt to single out Jabs is kind of pointless. Also nobody said Jabs is the be all end all or that I won't have a rock paper scissors experience. I have come to accept my limitation against shield stacking Sorcs with Biting Jabs and use other methods like hitting the power button on my pc

Yes I understand the WB>HA>Exe weave. Xael was doing this in his streams a year ago and it's who I learned it from. However this does not mask the WB animation as you dig deep with your wind up and then switch swings to begin your HA. Once I see the familiar WB wind up I automatically assume the assrape is on it's way. That's not to say it's going to land or not land, but rather that it's visible and telegraphed. I do agree with you that it's more efficient to have a triple combo than a HA/Jab channel weave, however that's still ignoring certain variables. Allow me to explain:
Scenario 1: Both players are relatively full Health, Assrape McGee charges in does his WB/HA/Exe weave. What you don't realize is his target popped vigor and has rally ticking, maybe even a potion as well. Regardless this weave only gets the target to around 50% health (for other unmentioned variables, gear/1hS/CP etc). That said, the Exe part of the weave does minimal damage.
Scenario 2: Crit-Knee Spears uses BlindJav/Stampedes into her opponent and does the typical HA/Jab weave. Before she chucked her Spear she popped Rally for Major Brut and cast Entropy for Empower. Javelin did about 8k to target. Since Crit-Knee followed it up immediately with Stampede she is immediately on top of snared opponent who used Break Free to get out of the knockdown. Because target is snared Crit-Knee lands all of her jabs and 2 of them proc Burning Light doing about 10k damage. Target died.

Now I understand PvP is random and sometimes things just don't work out. This is universal regardless of build or class. But those 2 scenarios I mentioned can and do happen all the damn time. I main a Stamina Sorc and play a Templar when not playing my Sorc. On my Sorc I use the hell out of WB as I have no real burst without it. My Templar on the other hand does a hell of a lot more damage. It's not a CP thing or a gear thing as I have only one set of gear that I bank swap between the two (thanks ZOS for making v16 gear a real hassle). Templars just have better passives and skills that scale with Stamina play.

No, I didn't say slot Rep on both bars. If I had to do that I would be very unhappy. I only have it on my main bar (DW). The only time I bar switch is to heal/buff and Stampede. I spend the majority of my time on the DW bar. That said, I keep Rep there.

Regarding BA, you need it on both bars. It does not give you Magicka Regen. The passive that gives you Magicka Regen is Capacitor in the Storm line. You just get flat Magicka Recovery, no skill slotting needed. Also not every stam sorc uses BA. Take Xael and Fengrush, those dudes are hands down the best Stam Sorcs and neither of them are running that skill. Also with 36k you only get about 2880 extra Stam. It's tooltip damage is negligible. Though the 11% HA damage is nice. Also that extra Stamina is not 300 weapon damage. You seem to forget the Aedric Spear passive called Balanced Warrior that gives 6% weapon damage and 2k spell resist.

Regardless of BA, Stamina Sorc damage all comes from 2h abilities and/or Caltrop/Steel Tornado spam. That said, no matter how much stamina you have (btw my Templar has more than my Sorc) the tooltip damage on 2h abilities doesn't go up much from the 8% addition. Whereas Templars still have a spammable ranged ability that does 8-10k and also can proc the Burning Light passive. Stam Sorc's have nothing like this. Hopefully Wrobel will give us a Stam based Frag from the crap morph nobody uses.

Again, Stamina Templars when played/built right are really good. Regardless of what people whine about, remember, if you tell a lie long enough loud enough, it eventually becomes truth. Consider the nonsense people have been parroting on the forums since 1.6.

Your post is filled with so much incorrect information and assumptions I literally do not have the time to respond to it all. I suggest you educate yourself by reading other Templar forums because you clearly have never played Stamina Templar.

No you would rather show up and post a drivel snippet devoid of anything other than hot air just to let me know you think I am wrong. I don't care what you think and your post is indicative you have nothing meaningful to offer.

Minno · December 2015

Just reread that thread.
No one tested the two skills with just a lvl 1weapon and fully naked character. There is no base to start off the conversation.

Also the thread was about pve content, vet Maelstrom. I think you'll need to revise your comments in the future, not to confuse pvp templars. For pvp you'll need to test how CP magicka mitigation + spell resistance effects the dmg output of sweeps versus armor penetration CP + armor pen weapon traits with jabs. Because right now there is only one mitigation with physical dmg, armor value.

And someone mentioned nirn penetration synergizing with light armor passives not being solely a Templar issues but all skills that feature a stam morph. But once again no numbers, nothing regarding pvp.

Some commented on burning light procs only working off magicka. But no numbers posted. That proc is suppose to work off your highest stat last I checked. If it isn't, then burning light is broken. But once again, only pve mentioned not pvp.

blur · December 2015

Minno wrote: »

Just reread that thread.
No one tested the two skills with just a lvl 1weapon and fully naked character. There is no base to start off the conversation.

Also the thread was about pve content, vet Maelstrom. I think you'll need to revise your comments in the future, not to confuse pvp templars. For pvp you'll need to test how CP magicka mitigation + spell resistance effects the dmg output of sweeps versus armor penetration CP + armor pen weapon traits with jabs. Because right now there is only one mitigation with physical dmg, armor value.

And someone mentioned nirn penetration synergizing with light armor passives not being solely a Templar issues but all skills that feature a stam morph. But once again no numbers, nothing regarding pvp.

Some commented on burning light procs only working off magicka. But no numbers posted. That proc is suppose to work off your highest stat last I checked. If it isn't, then burning light is broken. But once again, only pve mentioned not pvp.

Burning Light does proc off Stamina Jabs/Javelin. It does use the highest stat. What he is referring to is that it still does "magic" damage thus taking scale from the Thaum, Elfborn, and Spell Erosion CP. Same thing goes for Sorc abilities like Lightning Form, Overload and NB abilities like Killer's Blade etc. I suppose this par for the course when the person developing the CP system leaves Zenimax. After all, look at the halfass launch of the Justice System after Konkle left ZOS. They didn't say a word and just dropped the unfinished content that aside from a few passives and dye unlocks is practically worthless.

Minno · December 2015

blur wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Just reread that thread.
No one tested the two skills with just a lvl 1weapon and fully naked character. There is no base to start off the conversation.

Also the thread was about pve content, vet Maelstrom. I think you'll need to revise your comments in the future, not to confuse pvp templars. For pvp you'll need to test how CP magicka mitigation + spell resistance effects the dmg output of sweeps versus armor penetration CP + armor pen weapon traits with jabs. Because right now there is only one mitigation with physical dmg, armor value.

And someone mentioned nirn penetration synergizing with light armor passives not being solely a Templar issues but all skills that feature a stam morph. But once again no numbers, nothing regarding pvp.

Some commented on burning light procs only working off magicka. But no numbers posted. That proc is suppose to work off your highest stat last I checked. If it isn't, then burning light is broken. But once again, only pve mentioned not pvp.

Burning Light does proc off Stamina Jabs/Javelin. It does use the highest stat. What he is referring to is that it still does "magic" damage thus taking scale from the Thaum, Elfborn, and Spell Erosion CP. Same thing goes for Sorc abilities like Lightning Form, Overload and NB abilities like Killer's Blade etc. I suppose this par for the course when the person developing the CP system leaves Zenimax. After all, look at the halfass launch of the Justice System after Konkle left ZOS. They didn't say a word and just dropped the unfinished content that aside from a few passives and dye unlocks is practically worthless.

OK yea I got it now.
Same issue with evil hunter too (remember some point ZOS had its DOT dmg scale off stamina/weapon dmg? Or am I wrong there too?)

zornyan · December 2015

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-GB/discussion/233829/radiant-destruction-nerf/p2

This has a huge list if templar issues, serious class breaking stuff.

Short of it. Don't use jabs as anyone using a shield will laugh at you.

Don't use toppling charge as you get stuck and unable to do anythong, you have to die, drink a potion or pray that it may work.

Don't use radiant destruction, as it's block able, dodge roll able, and it's damage has been nerfed

Don't use dark flare as it actually has an initial cast time of 2 seconds due to being bugged.

Don't use eclipse as well do I need to explain this one?

Don't use purifying light due to health desync

Don't use Blazing Shield due to the LOL of how crap it is.

Don't use Blazing spear cause that's just been double nerfed.

Oh and don't rely on burning light as the proc rate is massively off atm too.

Minno · December 2015

zornyan wrote: »

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-GB/discussion/233829/radiant-destruction-nerf/p2

This has a huge list if templar issues, serious class breaking stuff.

Short of it. Don't use jabs as anyone using a shield will laugh at you.

Don't use toppling charge as you get stuck and unable to do anythong, you have to die, drink a potion or pray that it may work.

Don't use radiant destruction, as it's block able, dodge roll able, and it's damage has been nerfed

Don't use dark flare as it actually has an initial cast time of 2 seconds due to being bugged.

Don't use eclipse as well do I need to explain this one?

Don't use purifying light due to health desync

Don't use Blazing Shield due to the LOL of how crap it is.

Don't use Blazing spear cause that's just been double nerfed.

Oh and don't rely on burning light as the proc rate is massively off atm too.

Jabs- by itself won't kill. You need to add CC to your rotation. Shields are only as strong if the person can recast them.

Toppling charges has a bug but potions remove it. It's main issue is that it won't go unless your target is on level ground.

RD - your doing executes wrong if you are hitting this skill above 15℅.

DF - great openner. Can't spam it because players will interior you or dodge roll.

Eclipse- very good against range magicka. . Dmg still applies even if cc immunity in effect.

Puryfing light - need to look if it desyncs your health. First time hearing this was an issue.

BS - use Radiant ward instead. Adds shield with enemies around, cheap cast, instant dmg its cast procs burning light.

Blaze spear - use the morph that disorients. Stam/health regen more important in group play.

JackDaniell · December 2015

A Stam Templar strength pvp wise is honestly in purifying ritual. You just can't hold a Stam temp down that can spam it's purify. So Templar may not be the fastest, but at least it's the hardest to slow down.

As for a nord Templar with reactive and empowering sweep you don't need undeath, but it can be good to. It's like a double edged sword, you will be just that much more tanky but you will have more weaknesses ect. From my experience on a nord Templar I really like undead and really notice the difference when I'm playing a vamp vs non vamp. Getting one shot sucks I know, but it's not that terrible and doesn't seam to happen to me that often. Mostly off my horse ;P