Level discrimation. ZOS please hide player levels in the group finder and add a vote kick system.

Justice31st · November 2015

So I have noticed when I play my v16 my group dungeon start rate using the group finder tool is pretty successful. However, when I play an low lvl I more often than not get kicked from group right away. I believe this is because the group leader checks group list levels. We are all battle leveled to v16 already, so why punish people who want to level through dungeons on their lower lvl alts. I feel not hiding the player level is creating discrimination while using the group finder tool. Atleast put in a vote kick system using the pop up check system.

Jura23 · November 2015

I understand what you say but I don't think it would solve much. If somebody kicks you for your lvl it's quite likely there would be more problems and arguments with that person during the run no matter what, so I think it's still better to find another group.

Skinzz · November 2015

Battle leveling exists in pve? Wow, just wow.

RAGUNAnoOne · November 2015

those people are probably so bad that they NEED perfect meta build V16s to make up for their lack of skills, happened to a few friends of mine who where grouped with someone like that...

MrDerrikk · November 2015

xskinzcity wrote: »

Battle leveling exists in pve? Wow, just wow.

Where have you been? It exists in Orsinium, IC and now Group Dungeons when found with the group finder. Very useful for when you want to run dungeons with a low-level and don't have access to friends on retainer.

CirithValaria · November 2015

I would also hide levels since my v11 alt is suffering from severe "lvl racism".

There are couple scenarios that seem to happen daily:

- My alt is kicked from group that have mostly v16's (more times than not) after few seconds, only reason seems to be "low lvl".
- Our group of v1-v15 players are trying to find last 1 or 2 persons. When v16 joins they mostly leave instantly - because group is "low lvl". And sometimes even non v16 leaves because "group lacks skill".

I consider myself experienced and good player, but how can I (or anyone else in same situation) prove it, when not given a chance.
Everytime I play with any of my v16's I always try to enlighten people how grouping tool (battle leveling) works now and favor lowbies if possible and atleast never kick them. At this day I've never had failed silver pledge because of pre-vr player or failed gold because pre-v16.

...If player is low lvl (or atleast lower than you) it doesn't automatically mean he/she is a bad player, bad player is bad player no matter the level. Experience helps ofc.

Fun fact:
Few days ago when Fungal Grotto was gold pledge, me and my wife (v11/v15) tried to get group via grouping tool. We had this v9 tank that kept leaving everytime and I decided to write him: " Why leave? We are experienced players and in good gear - we also know what to do" . Next time tank stayed and acted like snob. Anyways.. during our run he confessed being wrong about us and that we were actually awesome players. Later in that dungeon and specially on the last boss came clear to us that the reason he was being so demanding and acted like snob was the fact that he didn't know how to tank all that much. Luckily we got it done.

What I would like to see is:
Zos making a post on all social media and here on forums about how exactly tool works now and what people should expect from it, since vast majority doesn't have a clue and awareness seems to be spreading slowly especially when some people are leaving or kicking those who know stuff.

EDIT:
Just a reminder to all who still read my comment. When you use grouping tool to form a group all will get loot appropriate to their own level and pre-v15's are battle leveled (imo little too much) "to match" a v15 player.
Loot example: My v11 alt gets void stuff and my wifes alt (v15) gets the ruby/rubedo/rubedite stuff.
Also if boss drops a helm, it will be your lvl helmet so no need to cry about that either.
As for stats my v11 alt has about 2.2k+ wd and in dungeon she has 3.5k+.

Justice31st · November 2015

CirithValaria wrote: »

I would also hide levels since my v11 alt is suffering from severe "lvl racism".

There's couple scenarios that seem to happen daily:

- My alt is kicked from group that have mostly v16's (more times than not) after few seconds, only reason seems to be "low lvl".
- Our group of v1-v15 players are trying to find last 1 or 2 persons. When v16 joins they mostly leave instantly - because group is "low lvl". And sometimes even non v16 leaves because "group lacks skill".

I consider myself experienced and good player, but how can I (or anyone else in same situation) prove it, when not given a chance.
Everytime I play with any of my v16's I always try to enlighten people how grouping tool (battle leveling) works now and favor lowbies if possible and atleast never kick them. At this day I've never had failed silver pledge because of pre-vr player or failed gold because pre-v16.

...If player is low lvl (or atleast lower than you) it doesn't automatically mean he/she is a bad player.

Fun fact:
Few days ago when Fungal Grotto was gold pledge, me and my wife (v11/v15) tried to get group via grouping tool. We had this v9 tank that kept leaving everytime and I decided to write him: " Why leave? We are experienced players and in good gear - we also know what to do" . Next time tank stayed and acted like snob. Anyways.. during our run he confessed being wrong about us and that we were actually awesome players. Later in that dungeon and specially on the last boss came clear to us that the reason he was being so demanding and acted like snob was the fact that he didn't in fact know how to tank all that much. Luckily we got it done.

What I would like to see is:
Zos making a post on all social media and here on forums about how exactly tool works now and what people should expect from it, since vast majority doesn't have a clue and awareness seems to be spreading slowly especially when elitist noobs are leaving and kicking people who know stuff.

Well put indeed good sir. This^

MrDerrikk · November 2015

The toxic elitism is why I have only done one day of pledges ever-with a group from my guild that needed the fourth player.

Justice31st · November 2015

MrDerrikk wrote: »

The toxic elitism is why I have only done one day of pledges ever-with a group from my guild that needed the fourth player.

You are one of the lucky ones then.

MrDerrikk · November 2015

Justice31st wrote: »

MrDerrikk wrote: »

The toxic elitism is why I have only done one day of pledges ever-with a group from my guild that needed the fourth player.

You are one of the lucky ones then.

It seems grinding out Cadwells to get VR15/16 is the only option really...what platform/megaserver you on? I need to find peeps that are interested in actually learning mechanics and the like with others, instead of just trying to find people who've run them 10k times...

Llyw · November 2015

MrDerrikk wrote: »

The toxic elitism is why I have only done one day of pledges ever-with a group from my guild that needed the fourth player.

[/quote]

I see this as a good example of Entitlement. "I am entitled to this content and YOU have to do it with/and or for me." People are allowed to chose whom they group with no be deceived into grouping with other folks. If a person wants to group with V16 that's THEIR choice not yours.

What no one has mention is if the group leader is V14 then the gear drops are going to be V14 so if a person want level appropriate gear and the group leader is lower level they are not going to get it.

Jura23 · November 2015

Llyw wrote: »

MrDerrikk wrote: »

The toxic elitism is why I have only done one day of pledges ever-with a group from my guild that needed the fourth player.

I see this as a good example of Entitlement. "I am entitled to this content and YOU have to do it with/and or for me." People are allowed to chose whom they group with no be deceived into grouping with other folks. If a person wants to group with V16 that's THEIR choice not yours.

What no one has mention is if the group leader is V14 then the gear drops are going to be V14 so if a person want level appropriate gear and the group leader is lower level they are not going to get it.

Not true. Everybody gets loot of his level.

Llyw · November 2015

Jura23 wrote: »

Llyw wrote: »

MrDerrikk wrote: »

The toxic elitism is why I have only done one day of pledges ever-with a group from my guild that needed the fourth player.

I see this as a good example of Entitlement. "I am entitled to this content and YOU have to do it with/and or for me." People are allowed to chose whom they group with no be deceived into grouping with other folks. If a person wants to group with V16 that's THEIR choice not yours.

What no one has mention is if the group leader is V14 then the gear drops are going to be V14 so if a person want level appropriate gear and the group leader is lower level they are not going to get it.

Not true. Everybody gets loot of his level.

I have recently grouped with guild mates to run a pledge. Group lead started on V2 then switch to V15 character so we could get the pledge done, as it was the gold key we wanted. The loot dropped was V2.

So are you telling me group finder loot drops are tied to your level? For this I am unaware of.

Xendyn · November 2015

Llyw wrote: »

I have recently grouped with guild mates to run a pledge. Group lead started on V2 then switch to V15 character so we could get the pledge done, as it was the gold key we wanted. The loot dropped was V2.

So are you telling me group finder loot drops are tied to your level? For this I am unaware of.

Using the group finder, yes .From the patch notes:

Loot will be contextualized to your level.

While everyone will be scaled up to VR15, you will always get loot drops appropriate for your level. For example, if you are VR2, you will still get VR2 loot drops.

gen_reynard2050 · November 2015

vet pve group....

✔ Must Have TS!
✔ min 25K HP (DPS)
✔ min 30K DEF (TANK)
✔ min 30K MAGICKA (HEALER)

✘ no TS KiCK!
✘ too low hp KiCK!
✘ too low dps KicK!
✘ too low def KiCK!
✘ low level gear set KICK!
✘ alien language KICK!

LadyNalcarya · November 2015

I don't get it. People on these forums have a very weird idea about what "elitist" and "elite" means.
Yesterday I joined a random /z group with my lowbie alt, and people were a bit snobby, because my char was 3 levels lower that the rest of the group. Even though I did around 80% of damage to any boss. Were these guys "elite"? Dont think so.
Same goes for vr16 that reject vr5s and 9s from group finder... The only reason for "vr16 only" group I can think about is farming loot from the last boss. For example, I never downscale if I join groups from /z, because it would be awful to get something like a helmet with a perfect trait or robust agility ring for low level. But there's no such problem in group finder groups.

AlnilamE · November 2015

Llyw wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

Llyw wrote: »

MrDerrikk wrote: »

The toxic elitism is why I have only done one day of pledges ever-with a group from my guild that needed the fourth player.

I see this as a good example of Entitlement. "I am entitled to this content and YOU have to do it with/and or for me." People are allowed to chose whom they group with no be deceived into grouping with other folks. If a person wants to group with V16 that's THEIR choice not yours.

What no one has mention is if the group leader is V14 then the gear drops are going to be V14 so if a person want level appropriate gear and the group leader is lower level they are not going to get it.

Not true. Everybody gets loot of his level.

Jura23 wrote: »

Llyw wrote: »

MrDerrikk wrote: »

The toxic elitism is why I have only done one day of pledges ever-with a group from my guild that needed the fourth player.

I see this as a good example of Entitlement. "I am entitled to this content and YOU have to do it with/and or for me." People are allowed to chose whom they group with no be deceived into grouping with other folks. If a person wants to group with V16 that's THEIR choice not yours.

What no one has mention is if the group leader is V14 then the gear drops are going to be V14 so if a person want level appropriate gear and the group leader is lower level they are not going to get it.

Not true. Everybody gets loot of his level.

I have recently grouped with guild mates to run a pledge. Group lead started on V2 then switch to V15 character so we could get the pledge done, as it was the gold key we wanted. The loot dropped was V2.

So are you telling me group finder loot drops are tied to your level? For this I am unaware of.

If you form the group manually, the dungeon (and loot) are scaled to the leader (but toons lower than dungeon level will get loot at their level)

If you form via the group finder, the dungeon is v16, people are scaled to v15 and loot drops at their actual level.

Trihugger · November 2015

I'll be honest when I say the scaling for people that haven't upgraded their low level stuff to at least purple is miserable and can completely sympathize with the people kicking. Vet battle level scaling is horrid. Compared to Vr1, I have 14k more Magicka and 1k more spell power than what it battle scaled me to.

Lyrander · November 2015

way too much scaling up and down.
left or right?
Battle-Level: <50=V1 but Pve = V15? <V14 = V14 But Pve?

I dunno man. Thats too much *scaling* for me.
You sure they kick you because you are 'low lvl'?
Because maybe some of them are just annoyed by the scaling systems. And annoyed by V3 Characters doing 80% dmg to the boss - whereas they wouldnt if they would be V16 -BattleLevel sucks sometimes.

Like my Level 40 Character is so much stronger in pvp than my V2 Character....yea fun.
But if you wanna compare to other players its not cool. So maybe they kick you because the system sucks (not you).

Now i have to admit i am a secret Lowbie-Runner.
I tend to invite Lowbies to my groups. Or join Low-Levels and help them with dungeons (only heals no dmg tho)

I also used to run max vet dungeons with a low-level Tank (means V5-9) and see if we can still make it.
Especially: is my healing good enough. The tank would be the same: Omg can i take that much dmg?
That was epic. Fun. Hard sometimes.

In the end there will always be players that will kick you.
It may be your characters name or haircut if not your low level.

Try to move on and look for people you have fun with.

Shadesofkin · November 2015

If they're kicking you for your level you don't want to roll with them.

You should only get kicked for refusing to communicate or actively making the run harder by being a burden.

Islyn · November 2015

Justice31st wrote: »

So I have noticed when I play my v16 my group dungeon start rate using the group finder tool is pretty successful. However, when I play an low lvl I sometimes get kicked from group right away. I believe this is because the group leader checks group list levels. We are all battle leveled to v16 already, so why punish people who want to level through dungeons on their lower lvl alts. I feel not hiding the player level is creating discrimination while using the group finder tool. Atleast put in a vote kick system using the pop up check system.

I'm sorry to burst bubbles here but no way on Earth would I roll up into even vcoa with a v1 in a v16 group. Your deeps and resist couldn't handle the job.

Nothing personal just a fact.

I guess Cyrodiil or whatever might be different.

Shadesofkin · November 2015

Islyn wrote: »

Justice31st wrote: »

So I have noticed when I play my v16 my group dungeon start rate using the group finder tool is pretty successful. However, when I play an low lvl I sometimes get kicked from group right away. I believe this is because the group leader checks group list levels. We are all battle leveled to v16 already, so why punish people who want to level through dungeons on their lower lvl alts. I feel not hiding the player level is creating discrimination while using the group finder tool. Atleast put in a vote kick system using the pop up check system.

I'm sorry to burst bubbles here but no way on Earth would I roll up into even vcoa with a v1 in a v16 group. Your deeps and resist couldn't handle the job.

Nothing personal just a fact.

I guess Cyrodiil or whatever might be different.

We did it the other day, the scaling was working without much trouble.

Now that being said, we did have to walk him through everything so it did take way longer than I'm used to.

Islyn · November 2015

As for what others have said yeah sure on many things but I personally don't bother with pledges I don't even need anymore to have a wipeathon.

What would be better would be if group finder would have a within 3 or 5 levels of lead sort of selector.

Islyn · November 2015

gen_reynard2050 wrote: »

vet pve group....

✔ Must Have TS!
✔ min 25K HP (DPS)
✔ min 30K DEF (TANK)
✔ min 30K MAGICKA (HEALER)

✘ no TS KiCK!
✘ too low hp KiCK!
✘ too low dps KicK!
✘ too low def KiCK!
✘ low level gear set KICK!
✘ alien language KICK!

I like 25k on tank, 17ish min on dps and I run 32k on my healer but 2340 odd Regen.

I don't care about ts except where necessary like when people don't know when to take pinion etc.

Ts is also nice if say you have a new group and want to make sure all are doing same strat etc without typing as you rub through.

PBpsy · November 2015

After quite a bit of testing the new group finder, my conclusion is that it's not worth playing with people that don't want to put in the effort to find a PUG in zone chat. I have gave up on it again.
People who insist on using the LFG tool are on average terrible in all aspects from playstyle to social skills regardless of their rank.

There are plenty of reasons to want to do the Pledges with good groups.

- The drops are not scaled. I usually want at least a few v15+ mats from a run. if I don't want the helm or willpower/agility stuff.If i do it attack lower level the only thing I get is a chance at a rng chest drop.
-Scaling or no scaling some people still have problems with some things, After a couple of hundreds of vet runs I am not interested in struggling trough imiril or freaking Praxing.Most people are doing these pledges for a quick chance at their stupid chest or helm not for fun.

How ZoS could make group PVE fun again.
-Tone down the RNG and make itemization more interesting
- bring in the freaking vet versions for the other dungeons already.
- add dungeon leader boards.

Islyn · November 2015

Shadesofkin wrote: »

Islyn wrote: »

Justice31st wrote: »

So I have noticed when I play my v16 my group dungeon start rate using the group finder tool is pretty successful. However, when I play an low lvl I sometimes get kicked from group right away. I believe this is because the group leader checks group list levels. We are all battle leveled to v16 already, so why punish people who want to level through dungeons on their lower lvl alts. I feel not hiding the player level is creating discrimination while using the group finder tool. Atleast put in a vote kick system using the pop up check system.

I'm sorry to burst bubbles here but no way on Earth would I roll up into even vcoa with a v1 in a v16 group. Your deeps and resist couldn't handle the job.

Nothing personal just a fact.

I guess Cyrodiil or whatever might be different.

We did it the other day, the scaling was working without much trouble.

Now that being said, we did have to walk him through everything so it did take way longer than I'm used to.

that's cool to hear and I reckon I'd try it with our own apt guildies but in my humble opinion it's hard to find good v16s even who can even clear stuff like EH or FG without a lot of fussing around.

That said though I guess it really doesn't matter.

All I want from any of the pledges are the DC hat with the right trait and a molag kena hat that's not heavy or impen or both.

I have everything else I want really....I can even deal with the heavy hat if it had a different trait like infused or divines.

The point being I think I worry too much maybe about just getting it done because I've done them so many times....so I could reconsider my position but then there would be ts needed as one thing I would not be willing to do is be typing instructions constantly. That just really bugs me.

svartorn · November 2015

I like healing a group with level 15's. I have 400+ CP and all legendary gear... only time I get a challenge is with a group like that haha

code65536 · November 2015

Islyn wrote: »

Justice31st wrote: »

So I have noticed when I play my v16 my group dungeon start rate using the group finder tool is pretty successful. However, when I play an low lvl I sometimes get kicked from group right away. I believe this is because the group leader checks group list levels. We are all battle leveled to v16 already, so why punish people who want to level through dungeons on their lower lvl alts. I feel not hiding the player level is creating discrimination while using the group finder tool. Atleast put in a vote kick system using the pop up check system.

I'm sorry to burst bubbles here but no way on Earth would I roll up into even vcoa with a v1 in a v16 group. Your deeps and resist couldn't handle the job.

Nothing personal just a fact.

I guess Cyrodiil or whatever might be different.

"Just a fact"? Um. Did you miss the part about the VR1 being battle-leveled to VR15? The battle leveling gives bonus stats to the lower levels, too. So his resist and DPS should be fine, if he's properly built.

When using the group finder to create a group, what matters is player experience.

I've run vCOA with VR16s who have never set foot in there before (and a lot of times, they don't reveal this fact until they make a mistake that only a newbie would make, and then they confess that it's their first time through, after which we run them through the mechanics), and, frankly, I'd much rather run vCOA with an experienced player's battle-leveled VR1 alt than with a newbie's VR16 main. And, actually, I've done the former a bunch of times--using group finder to group up with friends who have lowbie alts (we queue up for unpopular dungeons and then manually travel to the dungeon that we actually want to do) so that they can be battle-leveled.

J2JMC · November 2015

RAGUNAnoOne wrote: »

those people are probably so bad that they NEED perfect meta build V16s to make up for their lack of skills, happened to a few friends of mine who where grouped with someone like that...

It's not about being bad...Doing a dungeon with 4 v16's who have decent gear and understand their role makes the dungeon easier and allows more runs. Why spend 4 hours on one vWGT when I could do 5 or 6 in the same time frame?

Seravi · November 2015

I tried to get a group for Volenfell yesterday being lvl 40. Finally we found a V16 tank that would help in zone chat but when we got inside they didn't do anything but stand around. The dungeon leveled to V16 so it wasn't going well for the two lower levels under me. Disbanded that and later I used the group tool for the first time ever. After four minutes I was grouped with two v16's one lvl 35 and me lvl 40. They were a bit hesitant at first to have two lowers in a vet level dungeon but wanted to move forward. We all worked together and had a great time. Yeah I have only used it once but it was a great experience, made some great friends and had a blast!

Lexxypwns · November 2015

Something nobody has mentioned, sometimes guild members from multiple factions use the grouping tool for dungeons and sometimes instead of getting their guild member they get a random player, who is then immediately kicked, simply because there was someone else in queue that the group was looking to get