The ESO Great Depression

MrBeatDown

humpalicous wrote: »

MrBeatDown wrote: »

Its real folks, ESO is in a full scale Economic depression and commerce with guild stores are suffering from the economic downfall because of BOP and BOE. Everything you do in ESO has a gold cost associated with it. They have successfully bleed the gold out of everyone that was already dependent on sales of items to continue to progress their characters. There is way to many gold sinks in this game. We need more gold to play the game. When i spend real money to purchase the game/DLC , i expect to be able to play it with my gear/skills points/etc. Currently I cannot play the PVE V M A because i cannot afford to pay the repair cost associated with it, im also unable to afford to pay the gold fees associated with changing skills, CP's, Crafting mats, ETC, to optimize my character in order to play the content that i payed my Real Money for. Im also unable to play the Daily's because i cannot afford to pay the repair cost associated with those. Im also unable to sell mats, since everyone else is flat broke and cannot afford to pay for them. It is also too expensive to just craft new gear instead of repairing the old gear to get around the gold fees.

I guess my character needs to get on ESO welfare gold payouts daily, because i cannot afford to play the content that i payed real money to play. It is also against the rules to take out my credit card and buy gold from a chinese gold selling store and i risk loosing my account over this.

Something needs to change, and it needs to change quickly.

I agreed with you, but only because of the idiotic BOP system. Other than that, I still have a total of 700k gold on all of my 3 vet characters, and that's after spending hundreds of thousands on expensive gear. But yes, ZOS should definitely change the new BOP equipment, worthless and stupid idea.

Its expensive, I just deconstructed about 1.5 million worth of upgraded equipment yesterday because it was bound, and taking up too much room in my inventory. Cant even sell the ingots from the decon. Also didnt get many tempers from it. Have you tried running VMA? It will deplete your gold so fast it will make your head spin. You will probably try to make new gear and have to completely revamp your character just to participate in it, which can also run very expensive. So much trial and error with VMA, i had to completely give up on tank since they nerfed Valkyn Skoria Proc rate by changing (Lowering) the amount of tics you get on DOT damage. I had planned on running a fire damage Tank to compete in it. Idea has been scrapped and flushed. Now im flat broke with about 1200 gold. Game is not fun anymore. It means it will take several months before i can upgrade anything like this. Gear progression has basically halted and is no longer something that can be done under the current circumstances of the Game and its economy.

Stikato

Getting tired of the "two equal sides to every story" debate in just about everything.

Either ESO is making me broke (in-game)

-OR-

OP wants everything handed to him

Neither one of these is 100% true. The truth is in the middle.

If you notice, the posts that the devs respond to deal in that middle space. Find the inequality and the imbalance in that middle area, propose a solution, and you will be much farther along then trying to decide which "either/or" camp to belong to. OR find the mechanic in particular that is punitive. (perhaps that the low potential for reward in vMA--in particular, with BOP--combined with the difficulty and the cost, makes the content a net negative experience for the majority of the playerbase)

Jhunn

TERMINAT0R_XVII wrote: »

THATS COPYRIGHT INFRINGMENT! THAT CAN GET YOU PERMA-BANNED and depending on how bad the offense IT CAN LEAD TO YOU GETTING SUED BY ZENIMAX. All of these illegitimate 3rd party selling websites are breaking the law. DIDN'T YOU KNOW THAT????.......

You mad?

He has a valid point.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

Personofsecrets

code65536 wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

So much for "play how you want", huh?

You can play how you want, but that doesn't mean that all options are equal, nor should they be. Players have to make CHOICES, and not all choices are the best for how you want to play.

There are clearly bad choices, certainly. But we're talking about a fundamental change in the game here. Unless you want to make the argument that running the latest exciting content is a "bad choice".

I choose to not run vMA because I don't own DPS gear. That is just the choice I have to make. I think that choice is a good choice and I think that other people should also be making good choices based on their financial (or other) situations.

code65536

Personofsecrets wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

So much for "play how you want", huh?

You can play how you want, but that doesn't mean that all options are equal, nor should they be. Players have to make CHOICES, and not all choices are the best for how you want to play.

There are clearly bad choices, certainly. But we're talking about a fundamental change in the game here. Unless you want to make the argument that running the latest exciting content is a "bad choice".

I choose to not run vMA because I don't own DPS gear. That is just the choice I have to make. I think that choice is a good choice and I think that other people should also be making good choices based on their financial (or other) situations.

No, you chose to not run vMA because ZOS created an arena that wasn't balanced. Grossly favoring magicka users over stamina, ranged over melee, and peppering it with mechanics that overwhelm you with damage if you don't nuke everything down fast enough.

Which brings me back to my point: It's not people making bad choices, it's ZOS stripping meaningful choices from the game.

freespirit

I have enough gold and I have a fully maxed crafter, so in those respects I am sort of ''I'm alright jack''.........

But and this is a BIG BUT......

I think ZOS made a terrible decision making all the new gear drops in Orsinium BoP......

Seriously???

In one fell swoop they removed 50% of players' source of income!!

Less able players are now also in a position where some of the best gear will probably be forever out of their reach as they can no longer buy it but instead have to complete harder content to access it.

This in turn leads to the inevitable ''It's too hard nerf it!!'' threads.

I have done normal Maelstrom and I am working on the Vet version(that could be a long job!!) already I have an annoyingly large number of ''bound'' pieces from new sets.........

By all means make final rewards BoP but really @Zos the rest of it needs to be BoE or the economy will collapse.

mr_wazzabi

josh5813 wrote: »

So the underlying message to this post is the game should just hand you large amounts of gold since you bought the game with real money.

Seriously getting gold in the game isn't hard by any means.

For me just playing the game and killing stuff, looting and selling what I got to vendors and not even really bothering with any guild stores earns me more than enough gold.

If I really wanted to I can earn 1000 gold in a matter of 30mins by just playing the game and I have never been like "Man I really want to do this but I can't since I have no gold" nor have I ever had to worry about armor repair costs.

Also not trying to be mean but it sounds like you are not even trying to earn gold but instead just want to be handed large amounts of gold because you spent real money to buy the game.

To sum it up, laziness is no excuse.

I think you misunderstand the op.

What he is sayig is that we as paying players should be able to play vma without having to do other unrelated things ingame in order to fit the repair costs. It's not laziness. It's a customer's right to be able to play vma every day for the next month without having to farm or play other content in order to sustain the enjoyment he paid for.

Here's a solution. How about drastically increase the amount of gold that mobs and bosses drop from vma in order to cover the cost. An epic end game adventure should be profitable, not draining on your bank. It makes no sense that people who complete vma come out with less gold than what they came in with.

Personofsecrets

code65536 wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

So much for "play how you want", huh?

You can play how you want, but that doesn't mean that all options are equal, nor should they be. Players have to make CHOICES, and not all choices are the best for how you want to play.

There are clearly bad choices, certainly. But we're talking about a fundamental change in the game here. Unless you want to make the argument that running the latest exciting content is a "bad choice".

I choose to not run vMA because I don't own DPS gear. That is just the choice I have to make. I think that choice is a good choice and I think that other people should also be making good choices based on their financial (or other) situations.

No, you chose to not run vMA because ZOS created an arena that wasn't balanced. Grossly favoring magicka users over stamina, ranged over melee, and peppering it with mechanics that overwhelm you with damage if you don't nuke everything down fast enough.

Which brings me back to my point: It's not people making bad choices, it's ZOS stripping meaningful choices from the game.

Oh, I guess that I just don't have my own agency then.

JamilaRaj

Nifty2g wrote: »

TERMINAT0R_XVII wrote: »

Im going to derail all of this economic nonsense. BACK ON TOPIC, There are such things as CROWN REPAIR KITS you know. Using the crown store kit at vet 16 saves you A TON of gold and yes I know the regular game repair kits cost gold which makes the crown repair kits much more viable and two EACH CROWN REPAIR KIT REPAIRS ALL OF YOUR BROKEN ARMOR IN YOUR INVENTORY NOT JUST THE ONE PIECE.
Let's say you have 30 crown repair kits, you're using a kit each time all 7 pieces of your equipped armor are at 0 durability not including a shield, you'll save yourself appx 50K gold in repair bills at vet 16. You gotta be willing to spend a little real world cash to offset some of the gold sinks. Getting the crown store repair kit WHICH COMES WITH 10 BTW is WELL worth it.

Which ZOS employee are you? The new intern?

Apparently from stealth marketing section of The Monetization Department.

ADarklore wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Which ZOS employee are you? The new intern?

So you're going to insult someone for making a valid point? You don't want to farm in-game for gold, there are other options out there, including Crown Store repair kits.

What insult? Intern? Or ZOS employee?

Personofsecrets

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

josh5813 wrote: »

So the underlying message to this post is the game should just hand you large amounts of gold since you bought the game with real money.

Seriously getting gold in the game isn't hard by any means.

For me just playing the game and killing stuff, looting and selling what I got to vendors and not even really bothering with any guild stores earns me more than enough gold.

If I really wanted to I can earn 1000 gold in a matter of 30mins by just playing the game and I have never been like "Man I really want to do this but I can't since I have no gold" nor have I ever had to worry about armor repair costs.

Also not trying to be mean but it sounds like you are not even trying to earn gold but instead just want to be handed large amounts of gold because you spent real money to buy the game.

To sum it up, laziness is no excuse.

I think you misunderstand the op.

What he is sayig is that we as paying players should be able to play vma without having to do other unrelated things ingame in order to fit the repair costs. It's not laziness. It's a customer's right to be able to play vma every day for the next month without having to farm or play other content in order to sustain the enjoyment he paid for.

Here's a solution. How about drastically increase the amount of gold that mobs and bosses drop from vma in order to cover the cost. An epic end game adventure should be profitable, not draining on your bank. It makes no sense that people who complete vma come out with less gold than what they came in with.

I don't think that the customer has any actual rights when it comes to being able to play this game in any specific way. Maybe players should have the right to compete in vMA without farming gold, but that is a different subject.

Sharakor

Gotta love people that want everything for free, they don't even want to farm nodes for a couple of minutes to get an easy 10k. Such hypocrisy...

Tholian1

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

MrBeatDown wrote: »

I set the price for my product.

That's where you're 100% wrong. YOU DO NOT set the price for your product. The market does.

Absolutely this. If stuff isn't selling, it's time to re-examine the price instead of crying economic depression. Items are only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

Tors

Gold depression?

Find me a use for my gold please.

Jura23

Since everything in MA is BoP, I wouldn't be against the idea of MA not damaging equipment. I think it's fair.

Personofsecrets

Maybe the random enemies that players kill should drop enough gold to cover repair costs. Normally that is how PVE works and then the PVE player gets mostly profit from the items that the receive (by decon or otherwise).

Flyzardi

Why the panic about a single gold sink?

I have more gold, stones, ap, armor sets, recipes, crafting materials, etc now than I had before orsinium.

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

josh5813 wrote: »

An epic end game adventure should be profitable, not draining on your bank.

To some extent yeah but it seems the forum community as a whole doesn't understand the concept of wealth in multiple forms of currencies.

altemriel

depression, nope!

Waffennacht

In 20 min (I timed it) I can earn 4.5k gold from cropsford repeatable daily quests. That's not killing mobs either.

Usually I will only repair my armor right before IC or something important, run my armor into the ground. Do the repeatable quests with my armor at zero (that way Im not incurring more damage) etc. Keeps repair costs low

All my guilds lost their trader so I had to find alternative ways to make quick cash. This is the fastest non selling way I know of.

PrinceBoru

My bank has plenty of gold and I rarely even use it anymore.
I must be a one percenter.

Forestd16b14_ESO

My 2 cents...

Get rid of BoP and BoE and get rid of guild traders and just put in a player auction house. Cause even if they get rid of BoP and BoE the economy still gonna be bad due to of course by merchant guild traders. Of all the things that shouldn't be ran by guilds it's definitely the trade system and economy.

Timeetyo

To me the issue of how well you can farm gold via other means is immaterial to this argument. What stands out to me in regards to VMSA is that it should be at minimum self sustaining, if not turn a slight profit for "average" or better runs.

I have had similar situations in other games where one phase of a game is so taxing that it requires you to spend a decent chunk of time preparing to have fun. I.E. spending time farming gold elsewhere just to buy the mats / cover repair costs. This decision eventually drives players off of the content as anyone with limited time doesn't want to spend a big chunk of that time preparing to have fun - they want to be able to dive in and just have fun.

IMO there are 2 ways out of this for ZoS:

1. Give up and make most (all) sets BoE to give the folks clearing this content a source of income to cover costs. This worked very well for vDSA and could here as well.
2. If ZoS insisting on forcing us to play this - then significantly increase the gold rewards to cover not only repair (and soul gem) costs but also potion costs as well.

G0ku

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Weren't people complaining about the very same thing when VDSA came out ?

Didn't VDSA become afterwards the main source of gold income (via reselling weekly rewards) for the same "elite players" ?

Well people like me spent tons of gold to get through while it was hard. After two or three weeks they nerfed it so hard that a chimp could do it. The first weeks you were at risk getting a blue crap item instead of a set item/master weapon. The selling begun afterwards when people like you started farming it with the tactics and knowledge you got from guides and videos of people which invested this gold (or practiced weeks before on pts). So imo your point prooves nothing here.

With gear drops in there being bop they should disable the repair costs. they will never remove bop there because they want you to force to buy a DLC to get your hands on these.

Yea I could farm for hours to get the gold / flowers for my repairs/potion. But that consumes so much of my playtime that there will be no time left for the arena. Guess what, feels like work. Work in my freetime? no thank you. Adding the freakin loadscreens to that - I go play a game instead...

DanielMaxwell

VMA is a solo instance , the drops in it have to be BOP to be as strong as intended , if the ZOS made them BOE they would also have to nerf the items heavily .

as for the repair costs of the instance as others have said the answer is to increase the gold drops from the mobs inside it , not the removal of the repair cost gold sink .

since it is a solo instance you are not expected to farm it for sellable drops but to gear your solo characters . understand what the instance is for before complaining about it not being good for making gold .

reminder that the entire playable content for this DLC was aimed at solo PVE not at group PVE or PvP . what playstyle the content is made for determines what the drops are and if they are mostly BOP , BOE , or a balanced mix of both .

G0ku

DanielMaxwell wrote: »

VMA is a solo instance , the drops in it have to be BOP to be as strong as intended , if the ZOS made them BOE they would also have to nerf the items heavily .

as for the repair costs of the instance as others have said the answer is to increase the gold drops from the mobs inside it , not the removal of the repair cost gold sink .

since it is a solo instance you are not expected to farm it for sellable drops but to gear your solo characters . understand what the instance is for before complaining about it not being good for making gold .

reminder that the entire playable content for this DLC was aimed at solo PVE not at group PVE or PvP . what playstyle the content is made for determines what the drops are and if they are mostly BOP , BOE , or a balanced mix of both .

you serious? playstyle determines the drops? i guess you should try to understand before you complain about complainers... what a pile of bs...

DanielMaxwell

G0ku wrote: »

DanielMaxwell wrote: »

VMA is a solo instance , the drops in it have to be BOP to be as strong as intended , if the ZOS made them BOE they would also have to nerf the items heavily .

as for the repair costs of the instance as others have said the answer is to increase the gold drops from the mobs inside it , not the removal of the repair cost gold sink .

since it is a solo instance you are not expected to farm it for sellable drops but to gear your solo characters . understand what the instance is for before complaining about it not being good for making gold .

reminder that the entire playable content for this DLC was aimed at solo PVE not at group PVE or PvP . what playstyle the content is made for determines what the drops are and if they are mostly BOP , BOE , or a balanced mix of both .

you serious? playstyle determines the drops? i guess you should try to understand before you complain about complainers... what a pile of bs...

reading comprehension would help

if the content is designed for solo play while intended to provide powerful items the drops will be made BOP to maintain game balance as compared to the drops from group orienented content where alot of the drops will be BOE with the strongest drops being BOP , since the BOE drops are expected to be sold to help the group player cover the costs of running the instance . if the solo content gear was made BOE it would have to be nerfed as well as the VMA instance to maintain game balance (nevermind the havoc that would play on the ingame economy) .

content is designed for an intended playstyle and the drops are balanced accordingly by the game developers , the OP and several others are ignoring that facet of game development .

Soulshine

MrBeatDown wrote: »

josh5813 wrote: »

So the underlying message to this post is the game should just hand you large amounts of gold since you bought the game with real money.

Seriously getting gold in the game isn't hard by any means.

For me just playing the game and killing stuff, looting and selling what I got to vendors and not even really bothering with any guild stores earns me more than enough gold.

If I really wanted to I can earn 1000 gold in a matter of 30mins by just playing the game and I have never been like "Man I really want to do this but I can't since I have no gold" nor have I ever had to worry about armor repair costs.

Also not trying to be mean but it sounds like you are not even trying to earn gold but instead just want to be handed large amounts of gold because you spent real money to buy the game.

To sum it up, laziness is no excuse.

You must be a casual that does not play V M A. With your way of thinking, i would believe you have low standards and believe that you should have to slave yourself away in a video game and treat it like a job instead of the entertainment that it is supposed to be. I do not pay people money to make me do work. When i pay for something, i expect something in return that is self gratifying. You sound like one of those that likes the carrot dangled in front of your face, even though you will never get it, you enjoy chasing it. Ive elevated myself way above this type of thinking and just so you know, life is much better when you decide to improve yourself and realize your worth. If you do not care about yourself, then i suppose this is all you will amount to in life. A carrot chaser.

Got news for you: if you are here playing an MMO -- you are also a carrot chaser. =P

DanielMaxwell

Soulshine wrote: »

MrBeatDown wrote: »

josh5813 wrote: »

So the underlying message to this post is the game should just hand you large amounts of gold since you bought the game with real money.

Seriously getting gold in the game isn't hard by any means.

For me just playing the game and killing stuff, looting and selling what I got to vendors and not even really bothering with any guild stores earns me more than enough gold.

If I really wanted to I can earn 1000 gold in a matter of 30mins by just playing the game and I have never been like "Man I really want to do this but I can't since I have no gold" nor have I ever had to worry about armor repair costs.

Also not trying to be mean but it sounds like you are not even trying to earn gold but instead just want to be handed large amounts of gold because you spent real money to buy the game.

To sum it up, laziness is no excuse.

You must be a casual that does not play V M A. With your way of thinking, i would believe you have low standards and believe that you should have to slave yourself away in a video game and treat it like a job instead of the entertainment that it is supposed to be. I do not pay people money to make me do work. When i pay for something, i expect something in return that is self gratifying. You sound like one of those that likes the carrot dangled in front of your face, even though you will never get it, you enjoy chasing it. Ive elevated myself way above this type of thinking and just so you know, life is much better when you decide to improve yourself and realize your worth. If you do not care about yourself, then i suppose this is all you will amount to in life. A carrot chaser.

Got news for you: if you are here playing an MMO -- you are also a carrot chaser. =P

careful the truth can be offensive to some people , since even in real life everyone is chasing the proverbial carrot on a stick in order to get what they want in life whether it is material items , gaining money , social status , promotions at work or any other thing that they want.

Soulshine

DanielMaxwell wrote: »

Soulshine wrote: »

MrBeatDown wrote: »

josh5813 wrote: »

So the underlying message to this post is the game should just hand you large amounts of gold since you bought the game with real money.

Seriously getting gold in the game isn't hard by any means.

For me just playing the game and killing stuff, looting and selling what I got to vendors and not even really bothering with any guild stores earns me more than enough gold.

If I really wanted to I can earn 1000 gold in a matter of 30mins by just playing the game and I have never been like "Man I really want to do this but I can't since I have no gold" nor have I ever had to worry about armor repair costs.

Also not trying to be mean but it sounds like you are not even trying to earn gold but instead just want to be handed large amounts of gold because you spent real money to buy the game.

To sum it up, laziness is no excuse.

You must be a casual that does not play V M A. With your way of thinking, i would believe you have low standards and believe that you should have to slave yourself away in a video game and treat it like a job instead of the entertainment that it is supposed to be. I do not pay people money to make me do work. When i pay for something, i expect something in return that is self gratifying. You sound like one of those that likes the carrot dangled in front of your face, even though you will never get it, you enjoy chasing it. Ive elevated myself way above this type of thinking and just so you know, life is much better when you decide to improve yourself and realize your worth. If you do not care about yourself, then i suppose this is all you will amount to in life. A carrot chaser.

Got news for you: if you are here playing an MMO -- you are also a carrot chaser. =P

careful the truth can be offensive to some people , since even in real life everyone is chasing the proverbial carrot on a stick in order to get what they want in life whether it is material items , gaining money , social status , promotions at work or any other thing that they want.

Not worried. Merely pointing out the obvious.

Genomic

DanielMaxwell wrote: »

Soulshine wrote: »

MrBeatDown wrote: »

josh5813 wrote: »

So the underlying message to this post is the game should just hand you large amounts of gold since you bought the game with real money.

Seriously getting gold in the game isn't hard by any means.

For me just playing the game and killing stuff, looting and selling what I got to vendors and not even really bothering with any guild stores earns me more than enough gold.

If I really wanted to I can earn 1000 gold in a matter of 30mins by just playing the game and I have never been like "Man I really want to do this but I can't since I have no gold" nor have I ever had to worry about armor repair costs.

Also not trying to be mean but it sounds like you are not even trying to earn gold but instead just want to be handed large amounts of gold because you spent real money to buy the game.

To sum it up, laziness is no excuse.

You must be a casual that does not play V M A. With your way of thinking, i would believe you have low standards and believe that you should have to slave yourself away in a video game and treat it like a job instead of the entertainment that it is supposed to be. I do not pay people money to make me do work. When i pay for something, i expect something in return that is self gratifying. You sound like one of those that likes the carrot dangled in front of your face, even though you will never get it, you enjoy chasing it. Ive elevated myself way above this type of thinking and just so you know, life is much better when you decide to improve yourself and realize your worth. If you do not care about yourself, then i suppose this is all you will amount to in life. A carrot chaser.

Got news for you: if you are here playing an MMO -- you are also a carrot chaser. =P

careful the truth can be offensive to some people , since even in real life everyone is chasing the proverbial carrot on a stick in order to get what they want in life whether it is material items , gaining money , social status , promotions at work or any other thing that they want.

Of course they do, but there are degrees to this, and most of these things have real-world benefits. In a computer game the carrot on a stick is too easily overdone and can become particularly onerous considering you're grinding away for 1's and 0's locked away on a server somewhere. So it's a fine line. Games are fun, entertainment. Make them too grindy and people start to become more aware of the pointlessness of the grind.

Reeko

I don't understand. I have plenty of gold. 300k which to me is more than enough. Repair costs? Most i ave paid for doing a pledge in the last few months was 300 gold. A single daily in Cyrodiil covers that. Only things i sell on traders is little bits here and there for 1-3k gold.

Like real life gold is not free. You can't expect to sit and do nothing and make gold. Do the dailys in Cyrodiil, IC, Orsinium, your daily writs, etc. You can also make good gold stealing/pick pocketing and fencing your goods.

Really now, it took more effort to make this topic then it woud have to do even one of these things.