The ESO Great Depression

TERMINAT0R_XVII

Nifty2g wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Which ZOS employee are you? The new intern?

So you're going to insult someone for making a valid point? You don't want to farm in-game for gold, there are other options out there, including Crown Store repair kits.

Didn't I mention that in one of my posts, that they are pointing people to Crown Store with all the BoP, Potions and Repair kits but when you think about it, 3rd party selling websites are cheaper and they made it so in game items are better than the Crown Store. So what exactly is being promoted here?

THATS COPYRIGHT INFRINGMENT! THAT CAN GET YOU PERMA-BANNED and depending on how bad the offense IT CAN LEAD TO YOU GETTING SUED BY ZENIMAX. All of these illegitimate 3rd party selling websites are breaking the law. DIDN'T YOU KNOW THAT????.......

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting comments]

anitajoneb17_ESO

Nifty2g wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Didn't VDSA become afterwards the main source of gold income (via reselling weekly rewards) for the same "elite players" ?

You seem to have an issue with elite players, you love throwing that term around lol
No VDSA was always a means of income, it was a lot better at the start when no one had any gear from it. Then it died down but still incredibly good.

I'm sorry if I come across as "annoyed" by "elite players" - sometimes I am annoyed by their arrogance (for some of them) but in the current thread I'm not so I apologize if that's how it sounds.

Frankly, I have no firm opinion on whether VMA dropped stuff should be BoP or BoE. I can see the pros and cons of both. But there are a couple of things that do puzzle me. Like, why don't you do the (little) effort required to make the gold some other way (making gold being quite easy in ESO), as a matter of principle... you tell us to make "efforts to get better" instead of crying for nerfs when it comes to combat, but ask for things to be easier for you when it comes to economic resources ?

Also, you speak about VDSA rewards as they used to be. You probably remember that it was nearly impossible for "normally good" players to enter the leaderboards because you "excellent" would fill in all the ranking with multiple characters. Other weekly rewards (that we could reach) were all BoP . Was that fair ? Did we complain ? We did what was necessary to make enough gold to buy this stuff from you... Did you complain back then ?

Furthermore, you really made *tons* of gold back then, don't you still have it ? Have you spent it all ? You are aware that things change in an MMO and some gold should be saved up to anticipate those changes...

And I cannot support either your theory that the game's economy is broken, I still make tons of gold by doing easy quick stuff... looks pretty healthy to me.

If this thread shows one thing, it's that we're all equal when it comes to considering things that are beneficial to us as "good" and things that are not as "bad".

That being said, the "coincidence" of repair costs being high in VMA and the presence of repair kits in the crown store looks fishy to me, too. And your comment about "repair time" made me think too. Looks a bit unfair, because even if you wanted to use ingame repair kits, it would cost you too much time (1 piece of armor at a time) as compared to crown repair kits. There's a little problem here I think.

MrBeatDown

TERMINAT0R_XVII wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Which ZOS employee are you? The new intern?

So you're going to insult someone for making a valid point? You don't want to farm in-game for gold, there are other options out there, including Crown Store repair kits.

Didn't I mention that in one of my posts, that they are pointing people to Crown Store with all the BoP, Potions and Repair kits but when you think about it, 3rd party selling websites are cheaper and they made it so in game items are better than the Crown Store. So what exactly is being promoted here?

THATS COPYRIGHT INFRINGMENT YOU SCRUB!!!!!! THAT CAN GET YOU PERMA-BANNED and depending on how bad the offense IT CAN LEAD TO YOU GETTING SUED BY ZENIMAX. All of these illegitimate 3rd party selling websites are breaking the law. DIDN'T YOU KNOW THAT????.......

Really? Why dont they go after the Botters and people that cracked the core of this game, have a specially designed loader using copyright images of this game, and any other non ZENIMAX approved cheats/hacks/ etc etc that is already running rampant in this game? I thought the fanboys were happy about some kind of antibot code that got implemented with craglorn that is also wrecking the pvp latency in this game. If they were serious about SUEING someone they would be able to get these hackers sued and their paypal accounts closed. Shut them down and stop wrecking the game for others and fix the crap they sell us for real cash.

anitajoneb17_ESO

MrBeatDown wrote: »

I set the price for my product.

That's where you're 100% wrong. YOU DO NOT set the price for your product. The market does.

TERMINAT0R_XVII

ZENIMAX IS ONLY HUMAN, THEY CAN ONLY DO SO MUCH. They aren't robots, if you want hack free ESO buy an xbox one or ps4 and transfer your acct if it is still available. No more hackers, plain and simple.

Nifty2g

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Didn't VDSA become afterwards the main source of gold income (via reselling weekly rewards) for the same "elite players" ?

You seem to have an issue with elite players, you love throwing that term around lol
No VDSA was always a means of income, it was a lot better at the start when no one had any gear from it. Then it died down but still incredibly good.

I'm sorry if I come across as "annoyed" by "elite players" - sometimes I am annoyed by their arrogance (for some of them) but in the current thread I'm not so I apologize if that's how it sounds.

Frankly, I have no firm opinion on whether VMA dropped stuff should be BoP or BoE. I can see the pros and cons of both. But there are a couple of things that do puzzle me. Like, why don't you do the (little) effort required to make the gold some other way (making gold being quite easy in ESO), as a matter of principle... you tell us to make "efforts to get better" instead of crying for nerfs when it comes to combat, but ask for things to be easier for you when it comes to economic resources ?

Also, you speak about VDSA rewards as they used to be. You probably remember that it was nearly impossible for "normally good" players to enter the leaderboards because you "excellent" would fill in all the ranking with multiple characters. Other weekly rewards (that we could reach) were all BoP . Was that fair ? Did we complain ? We did what was necessary to make enough gold to buy this stuff from you... Did you complain back then ?

Furthermore, you really made *tons* of gold back then, don't you still have it ? Have you spent it all ? You are aware that things change in an MMO and some gold should be saved up to anticipate those changes...

And I cannot support either your theory that the game's economy is broken, I still make tons of gold by doing easy quick stuff... looks pretty healthy to me.

If this thread shows one thing, it's that we're all equal when it comes to considering things that are beneficial to us as "good" and things that are not as "bad".

That being said, the "coincidence" of repair costs being high in VMA and the presence of repair kits in the crown store looks fishy to me, too. And your comment about "repair time" made me think too. Looks a bit unfair, because even if you wanted to use ingame repair kits, it would cost you too much time (1 piece of armor at a time) as compared to crown repair kits. There's a little problem here I think.

Again, you are completely missing the point of this whole discussion.

You're just holding some honestly weird grudge at players telling you to get better because you can't complete content, that's not even part of this conversation but you some how put it in literally every single argument you have. This is not a conversation about who can complete VMA - But I will add on that, everything takes time to get good at. Stop referring to your group as "us" like you're a little group end game raiders have some ploy against you. That's just silly and weird. Unless you're referring to me, then all I have to say is the only way to get better is to actually practice it. As for nerfs in Maelstrom, nothing needs a nerf just several bugs need fixing to get rid of their one shot mechanics, only thing that needs a nerf is Round 8 Mini Boss Flame Warrior.

It took myself a very long to complete VDSA, and back that I was pretty damn casual but I enjoyed it, kept going back in for the reward of getting better and learning it. As for your argument about filling up leaderboards with accounts, I once completed the weekly with 8 characters on it, all with different roles and different factions with different players, I don't think there is a problem with that if I could complete by healing, dps and tanking. And yes I did make tons of gold, I made about 3million that week with the weekly.

Gold goes extremely quickly if you are into theorycrafting or end game raiding, to be competitive you must have legendary gear. And sometimes the gear you think is good is normally not optimized so you end up having to make several legendary gear sets. Yes I save up for gear, thats not what this argument is about, it's about being at a loss doing PvE content.

Now you're talking about how you can't show sympathy because you're still able to make gold doing what you enjoy but players can't make gold doing what they enjoy but they used to be able to?

To me it just seems like a bad idea to make a solo instance with BoP gear that not many people can complete, I don't sell to people who can't get the gear as a way to justify my eliteness I do it as a way to make gold and help players out who want gear but don't want to waste their time doing something they don't like, and likewise I buy potions from crafters because I don't want to waste my time doing something I don't like.

JMadFour

So basically you don't want to actually play the game, you just want to log in and have millions of gold and all the top level gear, fully enchanted, just magically appear in your inventory. so that you can just look at it.

because...pretty much just playing the game as normal is all you REALLY need to do here. It's not a job, and it doesn't feel like a job.

there has not been a single solitary moment in playing this game that I felt like I was doing any kind of work.

people who think that running a dungeon more than once is "hard work" need some perspective. and to get an actual job.

nothing about playing this video game nor any other video game is "hard work."

TERMINAT0R_XVII

JMadFour wrote: »

So basically you don't want to actually play the game, you just want to log in and have millions of gold and all the top level gear, fully enchanted, just magically appear in your inventory. so that you can just look at it.

because...pretty much just playing the game as normal is all you REALLY need to do here. It's not a job, and it doesn't feel like a job.

there has not been a single solitary moment in playing this game that I felt like I was doing any kind of work.

people who think that running a dungeon more than once is "hard work" need some perspective. and to get an actual job.

nothing about playing this video game nor any other video game is "hard work."

You saved me the text wall
Typing on an android awe is a pain XP

MrBeatDown

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

MrBeatDown wrote: »

I set the price for my product.

That's where you're 100% wrong. YOU DO NOT set the price for your product. The market does.

Ive never seen the Market take my liquid asset and sell it before. They do not have ownership of anything liquid that i have. They also do not have the authority to sell my assets for the price they "believe" its worth. Ultimately, the price is only set when 2 parties agree to a price and exchange securities to seal the deal.

The stock market is another example of how "The Market" Does not set the price. A stock will only sell for what someone will pay for it, if its available. If the market says that my share is worth $165.25 and decide not to sell it because i dont like the price, then i can keep it. This is how supply and demand works, Because i have a stock, "the market" will decide what its worth at that moment. But if no one will sell there shares, The price goes up. The market had no control over the share so they could not sell it, but when the price gets high enough, people might decide to cash out on the stock and sell. But, This is not because "the market" said thats what its worth. Its because the owners decided thats what they will sell it at.

Thank you very much. Maybe your into penny stocks, i dont know, Im way above that though.

Volkodav

Hell,I'm broke ingame,but who cares.Not me.When I need more gold I go out do something and poof,..more gold.I just dont happen to have massive quantities of it.I would never complain cos it is as everyone says.GO MAKE YOUR OWN GOLD.
And,I play all the content I paid for.Just not the arena in Orsinium.Dont want to.Have no interest.So,..I'm good.And I dont expect anyone to change a thing f or me.

anitajoneb17_ESO

MrBeatDown wrote: »

Ive never seen the Market take my liquid asset and sell it before.

LOL. Ever heard of 1929 ? When the market all of a sudden decided that the millions and billions that some people had piled up thanks to the industrial revolution were worth... just nothing.
And that's just one example among thousands.
Of course, the market only decides what your liquid assets are worth... because there's a market for money, too.

Personofsecrets

I don't see why all of these vMA players want everything given to them. Sometimes you have to work in an MMO. Maybe the mobs shouldn't hit so hard and that would make your repair bill not as costly.

kronicus

In the last ten years of playing MMOs they have all had parts of the process that feel like work. Spending hours in EQ camping lower lvl mobs that do not even give xp anymore just hoping that an item drops with a drop rate of .00000765% from a rare mob that only spawns .000987% of the time. If anything ESO has a lot less "work" incorporated into it then some of the games it gets its inspiration from.

If you want a game that does not have "work" in it that try something with a little more of a solo vibe. Just because your are an ESO plus member does not mean they owe you anything more than what they describe, it would be like going to Publix and being mad because you have to do walk around the store to get the grocers.

Just a little warning though if you are looking for a game with all reward and no effort, the new fall out actually has the option of letting you design your own base, might be to much work for you...

Sneaky-Snurr

I wouldn't say my main character is 'rich' or anything like that but I'm comfortable where I'm at on 6 figures amount of gold.

And all of that are earned by means of questing and PvP-ing. The biggest gain I made was from selling Ring of the Hawk's Eye for around 50k when it was still a hot property and I've never gotten any elite gears to sell for a hefty amount. Believe it or not, you can get by in this game comfortably with just 'moving along' without spending much gold throughout the game. And believe it or not, your gold will accumulate nicely in no time. There is no 'Great Depression of ESO' or anything like that. It's just how you manage your funds. Simple.

Just an advice for you, crafting will only make you self-sufficient and not depend on others for gears, enchants and etc. in which, costs you gold unless you get someone to do it with no cost. Trust me, crafting is one of the way to gaining stability in this game.

MrBeatDown

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

MrBeatDown wrote: »

Ive never seen the Market take my liquid asset and sell it before.

LOL. Ever heard of 1929 ? When the market all of a sudden decided that the millions and billions that some people had piled up thanks to the industrial revolution were worth... just nothing.
And that's just one example among thousands.
Of course, the market only decides what your liquid assets are worth... because there's a market for money, too.

In order for something to sell, there is a process called a "Transaction".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transaction


Financial transaction, an agreement, communication, or movement carried out between a buyer and a seller to exchange an asset for payment
Debits and credits in a Double-entry bookkeeping system
Electronic funds transfer, the electronic exchange or transfer of money from one account to another
Real estate transaction, the process whereby rights in a unit of property is transferred between two or more parties
Transaction cost, a cost incurred in making an economic exchange
Transactional law, the practice of law concerning business and commerce

During the Transaction the Buyer and the Seller determine the value of the said item and come to an agreement or there cannot be a transaction. Not 1 time does the market decide what im going to sell the said item for. If the market list my house @ $500,000 , and i decide to sell it, but the highest offer i can get for it is $250,000, Then the market cannot force me to sell my home. The market also did not influence the offered price of $250,000. That is a price someone is willing to pay for that particular house. The market cannot take my hand and sign away on an agreement and perform the transaction for me. So again, the market has no say in the value of an item. THE FINAL AGREED SELL PRICE IS WHAT IS REALISED.

code65536

JMadFour wrote: »

So basically you don't want to actually play the game, you just want to log in and have millions of gold and all the top level gear, fully enchanted, just magically appear in your inventory. so that you can just look at it.

because...pretty much just playing the game as normal is all you REALLY need to do here. It's not a job, and it doesn't feel like a job.

there has not been a single solitary moment in playing this game that I felt like I was doing any kind of work.

people who think that running a dungeon more than once is "hard work" need some perspective. and to get an actual job.

nothing about playing this video game nor any other video game is "hard work."

There isn't much in the way of reading comprehension in this thread, is there?

Let's lay it out:

A quester wanders the wilderness, doing quests, and harvesting mats, flowers, etc. along the way. They sell those flowers and make thousands. "Gold is easy to make!" Wait, where does that gold come from? It comes from other players who aren't out there picking flowers. Those players are out doing other stuff. For example, running vDSA and picking up Healer and Footman gear, which they, in turn, sell and make thousands.

So there are people out there harvesting mats, selling to the people who aren't doing that, and those people, in turn, are collecting other goods that are sold to others (often people in that first group). And there you have it: a functioning economy. People doing what they want, and trading/selling/buying.

The problem stems from the gear in all the new content being bind-on-pickup. Imagine you're that person out there farming flowers and mats. Now imagine all that stuff being bound. You can't sell it or trade it. You can either use it or destroy it. Well, that's what's happening to the other group right now. So people out there farming mats, farming IC, etc., they don't see the problem. They think, "Hey, my source of income is still there; what are these people crying about? Get off your lazy asses and get an in-game job!" You wouldn't be saying that if the stuff that you sell and trade suddenly became untradeable. You wouldn't be saying that if your in-game job suddenly resorted to paying you with a "good job" pat-on-the-back and nothing more.

So before people get haughty and proclaim that they can make 2.5M in IC, maybe they should take a moment to consider if they could've made that gold if IC trophies and vault rewards were all account-bound. Oh, and that Columbine that people sell for lots of gold? Do you think it'd still sell for that much if their customers run out of gold to buy that Columbine with because bind-on-pickup destroyed their source of income? Trade is a 2-way street. It's not healthy for anyone when there's a roadblock erected in one of the directions.

anitajoneb17_ESO

MrBeatDown wrote: »

So again, the market has no say in the value of an item. THE FINAL AGREED SELL PRICE IS WHAT IS REALISED.

I wonder why you keep bringing up definitions that prove again and again how wrong you are.

Say there's a store in your neighbourhood that sells apples for 2 dollars.
Now you produce the *same* apples and decide their price is 5 dollars.
Are you going to sell ? NO. You may look at your apples and continue to pretend they're worth 5 dollars, as long as you haven't SOLD them for 5 dollars (actually made a transaction), they're NOT worth 5 dollars.
And are you going to ever sell them for 5 dollars ? NO. Because there's the shop next door where people get them for two dollars.
The MARKET decides the price, NOT YOU.

Personofsecrets

code65536 wrote: »

JMadFour wrote: »

So basically you don't want to actually play the game, you just want to log in and have millions of gold and all the top level gear, fully enchanted, just magically appear in your inventory. so that you can just look at it.

because...pretty much just playing the game as normal is all you REALLY need to do here. It's not a job, and it doesn't feel like a job.

there has not been a single solitary moment in playing this game that I felt like I was doing any kind of work.

people who think that running a dungeon more than once is "hard work" need some perspective. and to get an actual job.

nothing about playing this video game nor any other video game is "hard work."

There isn't much in the way of reading comprehension in this thread, is there?

Let's lay it out:

A quester wanders the wilderness, doing quests, and harvesting mats, flowers, etc. along the way. They sell those flowers and make thousands. "Gold is easy to make!" Wait, where does that gold come from? It comes from other players who aren't out there picking flowers. Those players are out doing other stuff. For example, running vDSA and picking up Healer and Footman gear, which they, in turn, sell and make thousands.

So there are people out there harvesting mats, selling to the people who aren't doing that, and those people, in turn, are collecting other goods that are sold to others (often people in that first group). And there you have it: a functioning economy. People doing what they want, and trading/selling/buying.

The problem stems from the gear in all the new content being bind-on-pickup. Imagine you're that person out there farming flowers and mats. Now imagine all that stuff being bound. You can't sell it or trade it. You can either use it or destroy it. Well, that's what's happening to the other group right now. So people out there farming mats, farming IC, etc., they don't see the problem. They think, "Hey, my source of income is still there; what are these people crying about? Get off your lazy asses and get an in-game job!" You wouldn't be saying that if the stuff that you sell and trade suddenly became untradeable. You wouldn't be saying that if your in-game job suddenly resorted to paying you with a "good job" pat-on-the-back and nothing more.

So before people get haughty and proclaim that they can make 2.5M in IC, maybe they should take a moment to consider if they could've made that gold if IC trophies and vault rewards were all account-bound. Oh, and that Columbine that people sell for lots of gold? Do you think it'd still sell for that much if their customers run out of gold to buy that Columbine with because bind-on-pickup destroyed their source of income? Trade is a 2-way street. It's not healthy for anyone when there's a roadblock erected in one of the directions.

It sounds like people who are running content in which they only get BOP gear are making bad choices. The facts is, trophies and mats aren't bound and everyone has to make a choice of if they are going to be earning gold or spending gold.

Personofsecrets

I just gained 100k of net worth between the time of my last post and this post. I'm being serious, there are many good routes to making quick money in this game.

Cadelay

I agree. I'm poor, and every time I make a bit of money it flies out the window.

My 3 trading guild stores are crammed full of stuff that isn't selling that is totally fairly priced. No one is buying. We need a global auction house and less gold sinks. I can't empty out my bags because nothing is selling.

Arkadius

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

MrBeatDown wrote: »

So again, the market has no say in the value of an item. THE FINAL AGREED SELL PRICE IS WHAT IS REALISED.

I wonder why you keep bringing up definitions that prove again and again how wrong you are.

Say there's a store in your neighbourhood that sells apples for 2 dollars.
Now you produce the *same* apples and decide their price is 5 dollars.
Are you going to sell ? NO. You may look at your apples and continue to pretend they're worth 5 dollars, as long as you haven't SOLD them for 5 dollars (actually made a transaction), they're NOT worth 5 dollars.
And are you going to ever sell them for 5 dollars ? NO. Because there's the shop next door where people get them for two dollars.
The MARKET decides the price, NOT YOU.

But.. but... those are apples! Everyone knows, apple sells at any price.

SHADOW2KK

I and many others have no problem making gold in this game, sorry OP but it is laughably easy to make millions.

L2Trade

MrBeatDown

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

MrBeatDown wrote: »

So again, the market has no say in the value of an item. THE FINAL AGREED SELL PRICE IS WHAT IS REALISED.

I wonder why you keep bringing up definitions that prove again and again how wrong you are.

Say there's a store in your neighbourhood that sells apples for 2 dollars.
Now you produce the *same* apples and decide their price is 5 dollars.
Are you going to sell ? NO. You may look at your apples and continue to pretend they're worth 5 dollars, as long as you haven't SOLD them for 5 dollars (actually made a transaction), they're NOT worth 5 dollars.
And are you going to ever sell them for 5 dollars ? NO. Because there's the shop next door where people get them for two dollars.
The MARKET decides the price, NOT YOU.

Incorrect. My apples will still be worth $5.00 and the price may increase if decide inflation is getting higher, after the 2 dollar apple man runs out of apples, Ill be making over double what he was getting for them and selling less apples. After i decide i made enough money off of my apples, I may just throw the rest in the trash and sell something else. Thats my choice, I may have a very upscale location that i am able to sell my apples for $5.00 a piece and if thats what i can get for them, whats the problem? My customers may not want to shop at the $2.00 apple store. They might want my $5.00 apple environment that i provide. My customers will be just as happy, if not more. Everything is just "Better" with me.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

This is the predictable result of the big gear grab by raising level cap to V16 and it will happen again when they raise it to V18 to force everyone to buy the next DLC.

Before the imperial city, we had 15+ endgame jewelry sets. You could get them from trials, DSA, or buy them with AP in pvp. Even farm them in craglorn as the V12 gear was still useful to a V14.

Enter the level cap where V16 gear is so much more powerful than V14, it is the equivalent to V20 in terms of incremental increase.

Suddenly the best gear is all BOP and the only things people are selling is trophy and tel var gear. Every guild store has 50 Battle axes of Willpower and Ice staffs of agility that no one wants to buy because those boring three sets became mandatory when all of our good jewelry sets like ravager, morag tong, hawks eye, healer, footman etc were stolen from us with the level cap raise.

The bigger problems is this will happen EVERY TIME from now on if ZOS insists on restricting the lions share of endgame gear to the latest few DLCs and imposes a level cap increase to enforce it.

ZOS has no commitment to keep its previous "endgame" content current and at the latest gear level. Endgame PvE guilds are bleeding members because there is no reason to do trials or DSA.

Yes a new trial is coming - whoohoo. But one day, even that trial will be underleveled and all the gear you farmed from it will be worthless because ZOS will refuse to update it to promote the next DLC.

This new business model represents a continual strip-mining of endgame content. Know it. Fight it.

code65536

Personofsecrets wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

JMadFour wrote: »

So basically you don't want to actually play the game, you just want to log in and have millions of gold and all the top level gear, fully enchanted, just magically appear in your inventory. so that you can just look at it.

because...pretty much just playing the game as normal is all you REALLY need to do here. It's not a job, and it doesn't feel like a job.

there has not been a single solitary moment in playing this game that I felt like I was doing any kind of work.

people who think that running a dungeon more than once is "hard work" need some perspective. and to get an actual job.

nothing about playing this video game nor any other video game is "hard work."

There isn't much in the way of reading comprehension in this thread, is there?

Let's lay it out:

A quester wanders the wilderness, doing quests, and harvesting mats, flowers, etc. along the way. They sell those flowers and make thousands. "Gold is easy to make!" Wait, where does that gold come from? It comes from other players who aren't out there picking flowers. Those players are out doing other stuff. For example, running vDSA and picking up Healer and Footman gear, which they, in turn, sell and make thousands.

So there are people out there harvesting mats, selling to the people who aren't doing that, and those people, in turn, are collecting other goods that are sold to others (often people in that first group). And there you have it: a functioning economy. People doing what they want, and trading/selling/buying.

The problem stems from the gear in all the new content being bind-on-pickup. Imagine you're that person out there farming flowers and mats. Now imagine all that stuff being bound. You can't sell it or trade it. You can either use it or destroy it. Well, that's what's happening to the other group right now. So people out there farming mats, farming IC, etc., they don't see the problem. They think, "Hey, my source of income is still there; what are these people crying about? Get off your lazy asses and get an in-game job!" You wouldn't be saying that if the stuff that you sell and trade suddenly became untradeable. You wouldn't be saying that if your in-game job suddenly resorted to paying you with a "good job" pat-on-the-back and nothing more.

So before people get haughty and proclaim that they can make 2.5M in IC, maybe they should take a moment to consider if they could've made that gold if IC trophies and vault rewards were all account-bound. Oh, and that Columbine that people sell for lots of gold? Do you think it'd still sell for that much if their customers run out of gold to buy that Columbine with because bind-on-pickup destroyed their source of income? Trade is a 2-way street. It's not healthy for anyone when there's a roadblock erected in one of the directions.

It sounds like people who are running content in which they only get BOP gear are making bad choices. The facts is, trophies and mats aren't bound and everyone has to make a choice of if they are going to be earning gold or spending gold.

So much for "play how you want", huh?

anitajoneb17_ESO

MrBeatDown wrote: »

Incorrect. My apples will still be worth $5.00 and the price may increase if decide inflation is getting higher, after the 2 dollar apple man runs out of apples, Ill be making over double what he was getting for them and selling less apples.

That's assuming he'll run out of apples. Which he might not. That's another factor that's totally out of your hand, it's "the market".

I truly hope for your own sake that you never do business ;-)

Personofsecrets

code65536 wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

JMadFour wrote: »

So basically you don't want to actually play the game, you just want to log in and have millions of gold and all the top level gear, fully enchanted, just magically appear in your inventory. so that you can just look at it.

because...pretty much just playing the game as normal is all you REALLY need to do here. It's not a job, and it doesn't feel like a job.

there has not been a single solitary moment in playing this game that I felt like I was doing any kind of work.

people who think that running a dungeon more than once is "hard work" need some perspective. and to get an actual job.

nothing about playing this video game nor any other video game is "hard work."

There isn't much in the way of reading comprehension in this thread, is there?

Let's lay it out:

A quester wanders the wilderness, doing quests, and harvesting mats, flowers, etc. along the way. They sell those flowers and make thousands. "Gold is easy to make!" Wait, where does that gold come from? It comes from other players who aren't out there picking flowers. Those players are out doing other stuff. For example, running vDSA and picking up Healer and Footman gear, which they, in turn, sell and make thousands.

So there are people out there harvesting mats, selling to the people who aren't doing that, and those people, in turn, are collecting other goods that are sold to others (often people in that first group). And there you have it: a functioning economy. People doing what they want, and trading/selling/buying.

The problem stems from the gear in all the new content being bind-on-pickup. Imagine you're that person out there farming flowers and mats. Now imagine all that stuff being bound. You can't sell it or trade it. You can either use it or destroy it. Well, that's what's happening to the other group right now. So people out there farming mats, farming IC, etc., they don't see the problem. They think, "Hey, my source of income is still there; what are these people crying about? Get off your lazy asses and get an in-game job!" You wouldn't be saying that if the stuff that you sell and trade suddenly became untradeable. You wouldn't be saying that if your in-game job suddenly resorted to paying you with a "good job" pat-on-the-back and nothing more.

So before people get haughty and proclaim that they can make 2.5M in IC, maybe they should take a moment to consider if they could've made that gold if IC trophies and vault rewards were all account-bound. Oh, and that Columbine that people sell for lots of gold? Do you think it'd still sell for that much if their customers run out of gold to buy that Columbine with because bind-on-pickup destroyed their source of income? Trade is a 2-way street. It's not healthy for anyone when there's a roadblock erected in one of the directions.

It sounds like people who are running content in which they only get BOP gear are making bad choices. The facts is, trophies and mats aren't bound and everyone has to make a choice of if they are going to be earning gold or spending gold.

So much for "play how you want", huh?

Good point. I guess that went right out the window with IC and vMA.

This is what happens when a community gets divided by being forced to do things that they don't want to do. One side always has no issue and the other side is pitted against them.

The biggest thing we can have together, I mean the biggest, is for us to all speak as one. There needs to be overwhelming disagreeableness with the silly choices that are made for this game. Nobody can be standing up for the things that draw other players ire. In my opinion the developers get halted to a stand still when part of the community wants something, but the other part wants something else. There needs to be more compromise and less of telling the side that wants change to "get good."

I'll help you all fight for getting BOP removed and making gold easier to earn (even if I think earning gold is a learning issue), but I better not get sassed when I say that some part of the game is unfair for tanks because otherwise I just will not feel like helping out those who don't want to help out me and my friends.

ADarklore

code65536 wrote: »

So much for "play how you want", huh?

You can play how you want, but that doesn't mean that all options are equal, nor should they be. Players have to make CHOICES, and not all choices are the best for how you want to play.

humpalicous

MrBeatDown wrote: »

Its real folks, ESO is in a full scale Economic depression and commerce with guild stores are suffering from the economic downfall because of BOP and BOE. Everything you do in ESO has a gold cost associated with it. They have successfully bleed the gold out of everyone that was already dependent on sales of items to continue to progress their characters. There is way to many gold sinks in this game. We need more gold to play the game. When i spend real money to purchase the game/DLC , i expect to be able to play it with my gear/skills points/etc. Currently I cannot play the PVE V M A because i cannot afford to pay the repair cost associated with it, im also unable to afford to pay the gold fees associated with changing skills, CP's, Crafting mats, ETC, to optimize my character in order to play the content that i payed my Real Money for. Im also unable to play the Daily's because i cannot afford to pay the repair cost associated with those. Im also unable to sell mats, since everyone else is flat broke and cannot afford to pay for them. It is also too expensive to just craft new gear instead of repairing the old gear to get around the gold fees.

I guess my character needs to get on ESO welfare gold payouts daily, because i cannot afford to play the content that i payed real money to play. It is also against the rules to take out my credit card and buy gold from a chinese gold selling store and i risk loosing my account over this.

Something needs to change, and it needs to change quickly.

I agreed with you, but only because of the idiotic BOP system. Other than that, I still have a total of 700k gold on all of my 3 vet characters, and that's after spending hundreds of thousands on expensive gear. But yes, ZOS should definitely change the new BOP equipment, worthless and stupid idea.

code65536

ADarklore wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

So much for "play how you want", huh?

You can play how you want, but that doesn't mean that all options are equal, nor should they be. Players have to make CHOICES, and not all choices are the best for how you want to play.

There are clearly bad choices, certainly. But we're talking about a fundamental change in the game here. Unless you want to make the argument that running the latest exciting content is a "bad choice".

It used to be that you can be rewarded for a wide variety of activities, whether it be farming, crafting, or running end-game content.

A casual player who spends time farming and crafting who isn't able to run vDSA multiple times to farm it could buy the Footman gear to make him a better tank, and someone who enjoys running vDSA could run vDSA without worrying about farming because he could trade that vDSA Footman gear for the stuff that he'd otherwise have to farm for.

This made for a healthy economy. It meant people could do what they like doing and be rewarded for it. And bind-on-pickup destroys all this. Look in the trade guilds--the only things that are selling these days are mats; the days when gear made up half of a guild's sales are long gone.

If you want to couch this discussion in the language of "choice", then the problem isn't people making bad choices: it's ZOS stripping meaningful choices from players. And maybe it might be a good idea to stand up and say "no" before the next time ZOS takes something away, it's something that you hold dear.