Let's Make the Maelstrom Sword and Shield Cool!

paulsimonps

reclaimervii.sierra117ub17_ESO wrote: »

TL;DR

yea.... cause that's helpful feedback....

AhPook_Is_Here

I don't think it is really designed to be a tanking weapon. Most of this stuff is just going to be hold-overs till whatever next trial they introduce. If I'd use it for anything it would likely be in a PVP magicka build.

No tank uses low slash as a mandatory part of any rotation, and they would have to design a fight around it to make any tank interested; a boss that drops agro but can be snared, or a boss that every X seconds creates a large damage burst that you would need magma shell up to survive requiring the ult generation from heroic. If you are going to use a s/b set-up in MA as say a magicka NB might, I can see it, but honestly as a tanking weapon you are prob still better off with a vr14 master sword with a good trait.

paulsimonps

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

I don't think it is really designed to be a tanking weapon. Most of this stuff is just going to be hold-overs till whatever next trial they introduce. If I'd use it for anything it would likely be in a PVP magicka build.

No tank uses low slash as a mandatory part of any rotation, and they would have to design a fight around it to make any tank interested; a boss that drops agro but can be snared, or a boss that every X seconds creates a large damage burst that you would need magma shell up to survive requiring the ult generation from heroic. If you are going to use a s/b set-up in MA as say a magicka NB might, I can see it, but honestly as a tanking weapon you are prob still better off with a vr14 master sword with a good trait.

Um I have used Deep slash as a part of my rotation since day one, its not the snare that is the big thing its the minor maim, reducing enemies outgoing damage by 15%. It works on bosses and is great for debuffing them and other high hitting enemies. I'm surprised you don't use it, its super effective against bosses that does a lot of AoE dmg since it lower the dmg taken for the entire group. And a boss that required the use of magma shell would be unfair for tanks that are not DK's.

Personofsecrets

Yea, I've used Low Slash in every tanking build, with the exception of VDSA, leading up to 1.7. I still enjoy using it for trials and probably should be using it in vICP/vWGT.

hrothbern

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AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

I don't think it is really designed to be a tanking weapon. Most of this stuff is just going to be hold-overs till whatever next trial they introduce. If I'd use it for anything it would likely be in a PVP magicka build.

No tank uses low slash as a mandatory part of any rotation, and they would have to design a fight around it to make any tank interested; a boss that drops agro but can be snared, or a boss that every X seconds creates a large damage burst that you would need magma shell up to survive requiring the ult generation from heroic. If you are going to use a s/b set-up in MA as say a magicka NB might, I can see it, but honestly as a tanking weapon you are prob still better off with a vr14 master sword with a good trait.

fully agree

So... why not give "low slash" also the tanking feature "taunt" if a 2nd tier master weapon is equiped?
Does save a precious slot for a tank

As a NB Siphoning tank, I have no slot free to use low slash, hardly the Stamina available, unless it replaces one of the puncture morphs.

And this is "free" to add for ZOS. It is only relevant for PVE Vet Dungeons. No OP risk at all for PVP.

Whereby noted, that in PVP taunt abilities are hardly needed. Fighting behind a shield is an adequate taunt as it is for most adds

BuggeX

I am planing to reroll my Dk on Stamina, with Briaheart and both m weapons.
Deapslsash will be on my s/b bar, on Stamina with high weapon dmg it will crit with 4-5k with additional 800 from the passive.
If the additional 800 are also able to crit it would make ~ 6-7k dps in PVP.

That is a nice amount as a blocking fortress.

Stalwart385

I was surprised when my enchant over-wrote the original tri glyph enchant on the shield. What is the point in the shield? You can craft the same thing but with set bonuses.

If you could enchant the shield on top of the original bonus I would be fine with the shield. The sword needs a rework.

hrothbern

Stalwart385 wrote: »

I was surprised when my enchant over-wrote the original tri glyph enchant on the shield. What is the point in the shield? You can craft the same thing but with set bonuses.

If you could enchant the shield on top of the original bonus I would be fine with the shield. The sword needs a rework.

incredible....

either totally lame
because it adds nothing but takes away a slot for an armor set bonus.

or hopefully just a bug

@ZOS_GinaBruno ?

hrothbern

Stalwart385 wrote: »

I was surprised when my enchant over-wrote the original tri glyph enchant on the shield. What is the point in the shield? You can craft the same thing but with set bonuses.

If you could enchant the shield on top of the original bonus I would be fine with the shield. The sword needs a rework.

on second thoughts

In the tooltip the stats are overwritten by your new enchant.
ok... but are the increased stats also disappeared from your stats overview?

I know that there were (are?) some non-armor set jewelry at lower levels, with fancy names, where the original enchant is still working if you re-enchant them: giving you the benefit of two enchants.

Anyway
It has to be fixed !

jakeedmundson

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

I don't think it is really designed to be a tanking weapon. Most of this stuff is just going to be hold-overs till whatever next trial they introduce. If I'd use it for anything it would likely be in a PVP magicka build.

No tank uses low slash as a mandatory part of any rotation, and they would have to design a fight around it to make any tank interested; a boss that drops agro but can be snared, or a boss that every X seconds creates a large damage burst that you would need magma shell up to survive requiring the ult generation from heroic. If you are going to use a s/b set-up in MA as say a magicka NB might, I can see it, but honestly as a tanking weapon you are prob still better off with a vr14 master sword with a good trait.

I always use low slash in my rotation for the ultimate regen... i pair it on the same bar with dragon leap (the shield morph one) .... the more i can cast leap.. . the more damage i can mitigate to a shield (i think its 102% of my max health - so 28kish)

Stalwart385

hrothbern wrote: »

Stalwart385 wrote: »

I was surprised when my enchant over-wrote the original tri glyph enchant on the shield. What is the point in the shield? You can craft the same thing but with set bonuses.

If you could enchant the shield on top of the original bonus I would be fine with the shield. The sword needs a rework.

on second thoughts

In the tooltip the stats are overwritten by your new enchant.
ok... but are the increased stats also disappeared from your stats overview?

I know that there were (are?) some non-armor set jewelry at lower levels, with fancy names, where the original enchant is still working if you re-enchant them: giving you the benefit of two enchants.

Anyway
It has to be fixed !

It is affecting the character sheet values also.

Zlater

This is a really great thread.

I think it would be cool if the shield could have an enchant that turns it into a projectile like captain america xD

Jokes aside, everything the OP pointed out would waste hours of my time choosing what sets I want to use for tanking. That's so cool!

paulsimonps

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[

Itemization

• Fixed an issue where the visual effects on Maelstrom Destruction staves were not properly aligned with the weapon when casting Wall of Elements.
• Increased the chance to obtain a Maelstrom Weapon in the Maelstrom Arena.
• Adjusted the values on the Maelstrom weapons as follows:
  • One Handed Weapon: Increased the bonus damage and the Stamina restored by 50%.
  • Dual Wield Weapons: Increased the bonus Weapon Damage and Spell Damage by 100%.
  • Destruction Staff: Increased the bonus damage granted by 30%.
  • Bow: Increased the base value of the bonus damage by 280%. The amount gained per tick will remain the same. The tooltip has also been updated to reflect this change.
  • Shield: This item can now drop as part of either the Permafrost or Glorious Defender item sets.

What do you guys think of the changes? The Sword was an Improvement but still not that good, the shield is still useless in my eyes but that is because those sets are useless in my eyes.

Personofsecrets

The weapon still doesn't really do anything.

The change to the shield is fine. It opens up the door to using 5-4-2-1 rather than 5-5-2 because I believe that the Permafrost and Glorious set will have jewelry. There will be a use for the shield, but @ZOS_RichLambert , it would be way more exciting if it was just a real Maelstrom item that altered an abilities effect.

Please, please, make the weapon cool... please.

Personofsecrets

Why in the heck is Glorious Defender designed the way it is? I really hope that it wasn't meant for tanks.

hrothbern

paulsimonps wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[
Shield: This item can now drop as part of either the Permafrost or Glorious Defender item sets.

What do you guys think of the changes? .... the shield is still useless in my eyes but that is because those sets are useless in my eyes.

very much agree !

What a lazy escape.....

Come on ZOS.... we are talking Master Weapons ! Some creativity please that has real synergy for a tank role . Please, please, please

Leifnier

As someone who isn't a tank, this sounds cool enough to make me want to tank. But let's face it, zos isn't going to look at your suggestion and actually implement it. That would hurt some *** developer's pride too much.

Birdovic

My Main is not a tank and I see no real reason to make them as they are - simply useless

hrothbern

still pondering about a logic to have a Maelstrom Shield that would fit to the S&B skill line.

With the Maelstrom Sword related to the second active ability of the S&B skill line

Why not take the second passive of the S&B line to build upon?

something like 50% more of the Constitution Passive.

Jar_Ek

Nice ideas. I think the sword ideas are good (though miss chance is unlikely to come back so minor evasion for the duration of low slash buff). Not so convinced by the shield ideas - my preference would be for the shield to have a dual part buff, plus the enchant, in the same way as any other maelstrom weapon. My vote would be for a minor (or major with a CD) protection buff that lasts Xs when you block a taunted foe... which might mean we do not need to block permanently - which is the @zos game plan. If that is too powerful then link it to also having a major resolve buff running to gain the effect.

This would work in pve (taunted foe/boss) and require a 2 part activation (taunt+block), and could be used strategically after the initial taunt to get aggro (ie. refresh taunt for the buff before a big incomming hit).
In PvP it would provide a reason to use a taunt and help PvP tanks to release their shields.

If this were a major buff, then the protection buff would only be active if block was not (so maybe you get a minor if you are blocking and major if not). The max up time of this should be about 30%.

Personofsecrets

hrothbern wrote: »

still pondering about a logic to have a Maelstrom Shield that would fit to the S&B skill line.

With the Maelstrom Sword related to the second active ability of the S&B skill line

Why not take the second passive of the S&B line to build upon?

something like 50% more of the Constitution Passive.

That would be cool. There may be a need to rework some of those passives though. Battlefield mobility for example is totally horrendous. I see no place in the game for there to be such a severe penalty to mobility while blocking that battlefield mobility is needed in the first place.

Personofsecrets

Jar_Ek wrote: »

Nice ideas. I think the sword ideas are good (though miss chance is unlikely to come back so minor evasion for the duration of low slash buff). Not so convinced by the shield ideas - my preference would be for the shield to have a dual part buff, plus the enchant, in the same way as any other maelstrom weapon. My vote would be for a minor (or major with a CD) protection buff that lasts Xs when you block a taunted foe... which might mean we do not need to block permanently - which is the @zos game plan. If that is too powerful then link it to also having a major resolve buff.

This would work in pve (taunted foe/boss) and require a 2 part activation (taunt+block)(taunt+block), and could be used strategically after the initial taunt to get aggro (ie. refresh taunt for the buff before a big incomming hit).
In PvP it would provide a reason to use a taunt and help PvP tanks to release their shields.

If this were a major buff, then the protection buff would only be active if block was not (so maybe you get a minor if you are blocking and major if not). The max up time of this should be about 30%.

I like the idea that shield should have to do with blocking. Overall I think the sword should have some kind of group benefit (even if it is not miss chance) and the shield should compliment the sword in some way (if they aren't to be identical).

@ZOS_RichLambert , since it seems that a redesign of the Maelstrom tanking items aren't in our future, just make the sword drop as a permafrost item like was done with the shield. I don't think that set is super, but it is okay and would make the sword better than it's current version.

ThatNeonZebraAgain

Personofsecrets wrote: »

hrothbern wrote: »

still pondering about a logic to have a Maelstrom Shield that would fit to the S&B skill line.

With the Maelstrom Sword related to the second active ability of the S&B skill line

Why not take the second passive of the S&B line to build upon?

something like 50% more of the Constitution Passive.

That would be coo. There may be a need to rework some of those passives though. Battlefield mobility for example is totally horrendous. I see no place in the game for there to be such a severe penalty to mobility while blocking that battlefield mobility is needed in the first place.

See, I actually think battlefield mobility is cool because it allows those who specialize in 1h/shield or tanking to be able to do more mobile blocking than those who don't, and, logically, if you're bracing for a bit hit you'll want to have your feet more planted or be more sure of your steps. What might be interesting though, was if there wasn't a movement penalty for blocking, but you received less mitigation while moving while blocking. Spring+blocking would give the smallest amount of mitigation, walking+blocking would give a bit more, then standing still+blocking would offer current full mitigation. Of course, many mechanics aren't designed with this in mind, so it couldn't just be plopped into the game, but an interesting idea (to me at least) nonetheless. In PvP though, I'm sure someone would figure out a sprinting blockcasting build that was ridiculously OP tho haha.

Personofsecrets

Well currently there are some pretty big costs to moving while a tank. Sprinting get's me killed from time to time because doing so force drops block, walking irritates the DPS, and standing still seems to satisfy them and let me focus on a tanking rotation even though it makes some effects tough to avoid.

If everyone were to have the same movement speed while blocking, then I would hold no ire against anyone. It may make sense to have such a penalty, but it consumes an important passive slot to.

I also don't understand the idea behind the increase in weapon damage in one of the skill line passives. Even if I grant that damage should be a part of the skill line, there should at least be an increase in spell damage as well as I don't see why the sword and board tree needs to be shoehorned into revolving around stamina only.

hrothbern

Personofsecrets wrote: »

I also don't understand the idea behind the increase in weapon damage in one of the skill line passives. Even if I grant that damage should be a part of the skill line, there should at least be an increase in spell damage as well as I don't see why the sword and board tree needs to be shoehorned into revolving around stamina only.

true !

no need for increases in Damage for tanks.

But the recent IC "Black Rose set"" got increased Spell & Weapon Damage.
If I understand that it has the intention to be beneficial for Utilities (especially Spell) and Damage.

Then it would only be consistent that the S&B passive "Sword and Board" should be actualised to increase Spell Power as well.

slumber_sandb16_ESO

Don't mind that improvement in damage and stamina recovery even though the stamina part still isnt really enough. Definitely going to get it anyway though, will have master's 1h on main bar for pure sustain and maelstrom on secondary bar for more offense while not sacrificing too much defense.

Personofsecrets

When the Maelstrom tanking items come dead on arrival tomorrow, then we will get to have further discussion of how tanking is unconsidered patch after patch.

KenaPKK

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

This type of thing is how you make compelling reasons for people to buy DLCs, not by undermining what each DLC or base game offers each time a new one comes out (see not scaling Trials/DSA to V16, lowering TV stone costs of IC gear, etc etc; of course, this approach can be a slippery slope into all but requiring people to have all DLCs, but the general idea to use new content as a way to reinvigorate old content seems lacking in ZOS's designs).

This.

Stalwart385

The shield is still pointless. If I found a set piece shield I throw a tri-glyph on it and viola I have a master shield (actually probably something better). There is nothing unique about it. The enchant should not be overwritten if its just the same enchant I can already get.

I'm not happy about the sword either. I think it's poorly designed for a tank or dps, but at least it's unique.

Zlater

Crap I just realised that the shield is actually... Alright.
It's makes it like the footmans set was from Dsa.

However if I get this lol I will probably just re-enchant it for magicka. A great item, but not comparable to a master weapon.