Something Fishy Going on with Critical Strike

Ezareth

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

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Xantaria wrote: »

And @Gilliamtherogue

Could You pick Thief instead of shadow and buff yourself up to 100% crit and see if you have noncrits there?
Unfortunately I do not have a Khajiit Nightblade to achieve that.

Then people cannot explain your results with RNG. 100% is 100%. And if it is not, then it's proven broken.

Its not that easy to test. It might be programmed that 100% is 100%, but as soon as you are below that, its wrong. But its worth testing ofcourse. I can confirm I get lower crit then normal. I have 85% crit chance and in long boss fights, only 70-75% of my attacks did a critical strike. If it worked correct, I should usually get 1 or 2 percentage more then my crit chance, since its above 50%. (sry if you dont understand why, Im to lazy to write it).

Is this both affecting both spell and weapon crit or just one?

Gilliamtherogue

Ezareth wrote: »

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OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Xantaria wrote: »

And @Gilliamtherogue

Could You pick Thief instead of shadow and buff yourself up to 100% crit and see if you have noncrits there?
Unfortunately I do not have a Khajiit Nightblade to achieve that.

Then people cannot explain your results with RNG. 100% is 100%. And if it is not, then it's proven broken.

Its not that easy to test. It might be programmed that 100% is 100%, but as soon as you are below that, its wrong. But its worth testing ofcourse. I can confirm I get lower crit then normal. I have 85% crit chance and in long boss fights, only 70-75% of my attacks did a critical strike. If it worked correct, I should usually get 1 or 2 percentage more then my crit chance, since its above 50%. (sry if you dont understand why, Im to lazy to write it).

Is this both affecting both spell and weapon crit or just one?

Just weapon crit. I have narrowed it down to Khajiit crit passives on live. Every other non Khajiit stamina build I run with tells me their crit is roughly where it should be, it is only Khajiit players I'm hearing have this problem, which is myself included. It could just be RNG for that, but the crit loss is usually 8-10% from my tooltip, which makes it a prime candidate. Swapping off precise I still saw the loss, and swapping off daggers I also saw the loss. Next time I respec I'll test without khajiit passive to see if that's it.

Gilliamtherogue

Xantaria wrote: »

And @Gilliamtherogue

Could You pick Thief instead of shadow and buff yourself up to 100% crit and see if you have noncrits there?
Unfortunately I do not have a Khajiit Nightblade to achieve that.

Then people cannot explain your results with RNG. 100% is 100%. And if it is not, then it's proven broken.

I just picked up thief as well as put on a few more crit bonuses. 103.6% crit chance and I still don't crit on my attacks. Here's some pictures.


Truly amazing, never seen such a quality bug in my life. The fact that this has been known since I submitted a ticket and opened this thread and it's still in game is just beyond me. Now pet critical is broken as well and is stuck at the 10% base, I opened a thread about that too but it has been ignored. I'd appreciate additional testing on the pet crit though as I only tested with the Morkuldin set, so head over to it and post some results and I'd be grateful.

I_killed_Vivec

Scary...

This has been acknowledged since before Orsinium.

There's a block cost bug that has now been acknowledged to have been introduced with the Orsinium battle-levelling. The response from ZoS on that bug was "best case Monday, worst case January".

I dread to think when they expect to fix this critical bug (see what I did there!!).

DanielWinterborn

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

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Xantaria wrote: »

And @Gilliamtherogue

Could You pick Thief instead of shadow and buff yourself up to 100% crit and see if you have noncrits there?
Unfortunately I do not have a Khajiit Nightblade to achieve that.

Then people cannot explain your results with RNG. 100% is 100%. And if it is not, then it's proven broken.

I just picked up thief as well as put on a few more crit bonuses. 103.6% crit chance and I still don't crit on my attacks. Here's some pictures.


Truly amazing, never seen such a quality bug in my life. The fact that this has been known since I submitted a ticket and opened this thread and it's still in game is just beyond me. Now pet critical is broken as well and is stuck at the 10% base, I opened a thread about that too but it has been ignored. I'd appreciate additional testing on the pet crit though as I only tested with the Morkuldin set, so head over to it and post some results and I'd be grateful.

Could you please share with the rest of us how you do this tests? I am interesten in that detailed window you keep sharing screenshots of, i also am a huge tester of skilsl and that thing would be VERY usefull, so please take your time to explain to us how to do what you do peace out!

DanielWinterborn

Found it! Sorry to double post! xD

Xantaria

@Gilliam

Thank for testing this with 100% Crit.

It's confirming what we already expected I guess. This problem needs attention asap.

Gilliamtherogue

DanielWinterborn wrote: »

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Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Xantaria wrote: »

And @Gilliamtherogue

Could You pick Thief instead of shadow and buff yourself up to 100% crit and see if you have noncrits there?
Unfortunately I do not have a Khajiit Nightblade to achieve that.

Then people cannot explain your results with RNG. 100% is 100%. And if it is not, then it's proven broken.

I just picked up thief as well as put on a few more crit bonuses. 103.6% crit chance and I still don't crit on my attacks. Here's some pictures.


Truly amazing, never seen such a quality bug in my life. The fact that this has been known since I submitted a ticket and opened this thread and it's still in game is just beyond me. Now pet critical is broken as well and is stuck at the 10% base, I opened a thread about that too but it has been ignored. I'd appreciate additional testing on the pet crit though as I only tested with the Morkuldin set, so head over to it and post some results and I'd be grateful.

Could you please share with the rest of us how you do this tests? I am interesten in that detailed window you keep sharing screenshots of, i also am a huge tester of skilsl and that thing would be VERY usefull, so please take your time to explain to us how to do what you do peace out!

Foundry Tactical Combat or FTC is the addon that I use to gather data in game. It takes real information that is simply hidden from our UI and makes it visible, and then FTC also records how many hits you did while in that combat situation, breaks them down into critical hits, maximum, and averages as displayed. To test all I do is take the desired variables (in this case critical strike sources) and apply them to relevant mobs (I usually use trolls in the Rift, as they have the same resistance levels of trolls in Orsinium, sometimes for larger testing sources I use undead groups if I'm not testing things like weapon damage/etc). To ensure combat doesn't end sometimes I go into FTC's options and increase the timeout threshold so it continues to record information even a few seconds after my character leaves combat. All I do then is open the pull down menu which you bind to a key in the game's key bindings options (it'll be under Keybindings > Addons) and then open my character screen to compare. I keep multiple notebooks next to me for long hand math and recording as well as a calculator to find mitigation values, as well as break downs for calculations. It's all really easy stuff, just time consuming and makes you use your noggin, but nothing too outlandish of what high school and some college algebra teaches. I stay away from plugin software or spreadsheets as it promotes laziness and I often find that they are inaccurate compared to in game mechanics, due to something my guildies and I call, "ZeniMath".

CtrlAltDlt

Didn't read the whole thread so if someone can just tell me: Is it a waste of CPs to put it on Critical Strike right now?

acw37162

milthalas wrote: »

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OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Another thing I want to add since we are on the subject of chances.
I have been playing around with legerdemain and justice achievements lately.
Last night I had 6 unsuccessful pickpockets in a row with 85% chance. I do not believe that is a coincidence. I know I should think so, but its fascinating how many unsuccessful pickpockets you get compared to successful.

Statistically speaking the probability of 6 failures in 6 attempts with an 85% chance of success is .00001139.
GG ZOS.

So your saying there's a chance.....

Xantaria

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, apologies for the delay. Been waiting for an ETA on this fix, but unfortunately don't have one at the moment. Just trying to figure out if this is something that can go into an incremental patch, or if it needs to go in the next update for whatever reason. We'll try and get something nailed down and will let you know.

Waiting.

Xantaria

Still waiting ...

Defilted

Even if they found the issue and resolved it today they would have to wait for Q/A testing before putting into the patch maint cycle. If you want this done right it is going to take a bit of time.

Gilliamtherogue

Defilted wrote: »

Even if they found the issue and resolved it today they would have to wait for Q/A testing before putting into the patch maint cycle. If you want this done right it is going to take a bit of time.

Yeah it has been a bit of time. I brought this to their attention 2 days shy of a month ago. That's plenty of time to fix a bug this big. Unfortunately since not many people in this game are big on math or min maxing it's been put on the back burner. ZoS doesn't have all the time in the world, and I totally get that, but all of their priorities are spent on nerfing and fixing bugs that hurt the game in a harmful way, such as dealing or healing too much, rather than too little, rather than any bug that hinders game play. After dealing with this game's PvP community I can't blame them, but PvE related issues have been neglected so long that a lot of us are getting tired.

Addihul

(troll) Clearly the issue here is Khajit racism. ZOS employees are dog lovers.. and the mere thought that a cat race could be on par with the rest, has led to drastic back channel decisions to silently remove their passives. Argonian NB is the new BIS. The extra racial crit is secretly applied to their swimming passive.

Xantaria

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Well tbh we were promised an update on this and we're not getting one although1 patch maintenance has passed. To me it doesn't matter how much Zenimax has to do and how much work they are having with this and that. Sticking to your word is the most important thing there is. And if you can't stick to that then just don't promise us an update.

Xantaria

Waiting ...

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO

After seeing the test results (via @Gilliamtherogue) and knowing this still has not been fixed and it has almost been a month now is unbelievable..

Nifty2g

@xantaria still waiting?

Xantaria

Nifty2g wrote: »

@xantaria still waiting?

@Nifty2g
Yes, man .... running dry on supplies. But still waiting. If anybody can send water, I'd be very happy.

Need ... to ... continue ...

the

...

wait

...

@ZOS_GinaBruno tagging her just in case she accidently clicks on her noticification hue

Jeckll

I found a workaround!

Just stacking up to 110% crit does fix the issue.

Xantaria

Jeckll wrote: »

I found a workaround!

Just stacking up to 110% crit does fix the issue.

NICE!!!

...

but how? ...

Gilliamtherogue

Xantaria wrote: »

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Jeckll wrote: »

I found a workaround!

Just stacking up to 110% crit does fix the issue.

NICE!!!

...

but how? ...

Cuz khajiit crit is what's broken, not anything else. At least, that's what all my testing has shown. I have yet to have a non khajiit post me conflicting results.

Jeckll

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Cuz khajiit crit is what's broken, not anything else. At least, that's what all my testing has shown. I have yet to have a non khajiit post me conflicting results.

That actually makes a lot of sense because I never ran into the issue you describe here. After people told me about your thread, I was rewatching all my recent DPS Screenshots of boss fights and my Crit Chance was always pretty much correct.

Gilliamtherogue

Jeckll wrote: »

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Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Cuz khajiit crit is what's broken, not anything else. At least, that's what all my testing has shown. I have yet to have a non khajiit post me conflicting results.

That actually makes a lot of sense because I never ran into the issue you describe here. After people told me about your thread, I was rewatching all my recent DPS Screenshots of boss fights and my Crit Chance was always pretty much correct.

Yeah if you can find any other evidence otherwise on a non khajiit, namely NEVER going above your listed character screen crit in high volume scenarios (~100-300 attacks) then I guess it would show that there's something else, but all of the sources I've had sent to me were all within .1% averages of their listed crit (sometimes higher sometimes lower/total) compared to me/other khajiits where its always like 6-10% lower, never higher.

Jeckll

Xantaria wrote: »

NICE!!!

but how? ...

Base: 10%
Thief with Divines: 16,7%
Medium Armor: 10,5%%
CP System: 12%
Major Savagery: 10%
Minor Savagery: 3%
Double Dagger: 10%
Precise: 7%
4x Hunding's Rage: 6,2%
4x Briarheart: 6,2%
4x Night Mother: 6,2%
6x Assassination Skills: 12%

109,8%

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Yeah if you can find any other evidence otherwise on a non khajiit, namely NEVER going above your listed character screen crit in high volume scenarios (~100-300 attacks) then I guess it would show that there's something else, but all of the sources I've had sent to me were all within .1% averages of their listed crit (sometimes higher sometimes lower/total) compared to me/other khajiits where its always like 6-10% lower, never higher.

I've autohitted 5 Mammoths to death and my crit chance was always as expected - I will make my guildmates do the same this we.

Gilliamtherogue

Yeah just for some more icing on the cake proof, here's screens of the exact same cri setup pre orsinium patch and post orsinium patch. The issue is pretty obvious;
Pre 2.2


Post 2.2


pre 2.2 i ran with a 2h on my off bar and now i run with a bow as you can see, the loss of crit between them actually has bow being higher crit than 2h, so the loss when i swap to my offbar to recast would be less punishing than it was with the 2h, AND there is a higher testing pool post 2.2 (higher volume of total hits, the higher the number, the closer to true % you will get) yet the crit disparity is even larger.

Jeckll

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

pre 2.2 i ran with a 2h on my off bar and now i run with a bow as you can see, the loss of crit between them actually has bow being higher crit than 2h, so the loss when i swap to my offbar to recast would be less punishing than it was with the 2h, AND there is a higher testing pool post 2.2 (higher volume of total hits, the higher the number, the closer to true % you will get) yet the crit disparity is even larger.

Yeah I see - the difference is quite huge. Pretty sure you had so swap to bow more frequently than to 2h because you wanted to keep Scourged Earth up but 10% difference is way too big.

Xantaria

Jeckll wrote: »

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Xantaria wrote: »

NICE!!!

but how? ...

Base: 10%
Thief with Divines: 16,7%
Medium Armor: 10,5%%
CP System: 12%
Major Savagery: 10%
Minor Savagery: 3%
Double Dagger: 10%
Precise: 7%
4x Hunding's Rage: 6,2%
4x Briarheart: 6,2%
4x Night Mother: 6,2%
6x Assassination Skills: 12%

109,8%

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Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Yeah if you can find any other evidence otherwise on a non khajiit, namely NEVER going above your listed character screen crit in high volume scenarios (~100-300 attacks) then I guess it would show that there's something else, but all of the sources I've had sent to me were all within .1% averages of their listed crit (sometimes higher sometimes lower/total) compared to me/other khajiits where its always like 6-10% lower, never higher.

I've autohitted 5 Mammoths to death and my crit chance was always as expected - I will make my guildmates do the same this we.

109,8 =/= 110

Jeckll

Xantaria wrote: »

109,8 =/= 110

Divines on SHIELD - eat that !