PvP Podcast (Episode 7 Uploaded)

Orchish

Some great solid points here. I seriously hope the devs take the time to watch this video.

Alcast

Derra wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Send that one up to the devs. AND...especially watch this part: 59:00-1:03:35

I have the biggest man sorc crush on @FENGRUSH right now.

haha xD

Soris

Master_Kas wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Send that one up to the devs. AND...especially watch this part: 59:00-1:03:35

Gina, wrobel and some other ZOS watched it. They care about us!

Gina, Wrobel and Rich. Woohoo!

Armitas

Wow, FENGRUSH is a boss in game and out of game.

frozywozy

Keep up the good work and maybe someday we will get this podcast live in Zenimax Studio live stream with Gina, Rich, Brian and Erik webcams!

FENGRUSH

Thanks for all the kind words here! Thank you again to Sypher to putting this panel together and making this a reality.

Darnathian wrote: »

Quick suggestion. Your cast was very biased though. I encourage you to have a Skilled raid leader or two as well to get a opinions from more of the community. All of you favor small scale pvp, that is obvious.

Not everyone likes that. Many would argue that is the minority. I think that is part of the problem with some of Zos's decisions. Listening to parts of the community vice all.

This has a lot of potential to fixing the game that many love and would come back to

Hey Darnathian, I dont disagree that it was biased with respect that you didnt have the other side of the equation to chat with us. Here is what I can say about this - yes there are lots of great skilled leaders, and skilled players in these large ball groups. Thats really not the issue. If you removed AOE caps, there is only 1 or 2 groups of 20+ players that would still be difficult for my group of 4 to deal with. As it stands currently, those groups cant even be contested by my group of 4, because of AOE caps.

The large majority of other groups of randoms grouping up or whatever, they are difficult to beat solely because they are reducing a majority of the damage we output on them. This is not a good thing -especially given the damage this patch. So while I wouldnt be against having a leader from one of the more skilled groups there, I dont think the opinion would be changed or argued really. AOE caps are not helping things from performance to combat on the field in large scale PvP.

To clarify, Im not against having 20 people in a group for PvP. My problem with it is the *best* way to play with 20 people in a group is to ball them up and ignore a lot of the factors such as strategy, awareness, and positioning. These things become secondary whereas they are primary in all other aspects of the game. Ball groups dumb the game down, and hurt the overall performance and appeal to the game. It literally becomes "a game of numbers". And ESO should strive to create PvP that is better than that. 20 players in a group can still happen, but they should work as a group of 20, not a ball group of <X> size.

timidobserver wrote: »

I put this in another thread with your video linked, but I figured I would put it in your official thread.

I'll offer my Templar perspective since no one on the panel mains a Templar.

Smart heals:
I do not run ball groups. Most of my groups have a max of 4-8 people in it. I think Fengrush is pretty wrong on smart healing. Basically, you guys with your stam build coordinated dps do enough single target damage that absolutely nobody is going to survive it other than maybe a full turtle DK, and you are going to just perma lock the DK and hammer them until they go down. The CP system doesn't help us out at all with your damage, like it does with magical/elemental damage, so we just have to take it to the face. How else am I supposed to keep my team alive if I can't get a heal off as soon as I see you guys spamming your wrecking blows and surprise attacks. You are going to major defile them anyway, so I'll have to try to deal with that before you kill them.

Basically, everyone on the panel is bias because you are all damage focused players, so you want people to just take your damage and die. That is the goal of every one of your builds. You have no Templar or primary support player on your panel, so they don't get their view out there.

I think youre misinterpreting my mentioning of Smart heals. Im not against them or suggesting we change them - reality is the game design has been centered around it since the entire beta; theyre not going anywhere. I was simply referencing when you have large amounts of burst (not single target, AOE) against large ball groups, and NOBODY in that group is taking full damage because of how damage is factored:

I hit 6 of 24 players for full damage, next AOE, I hit a new random 6 targets for full damage - the rest is half at best each time. What this means is while Im trying to burst something in a ball down, there is virtually nobody that will take full damage multiple times in a row. This is where smart healing was brought up. Whoever eats that highest burst, is the target of heals. ZOS mentioned in the stream that healing is capped at 6 and offense hits 60 - They were essentially INFERRING that offense was somehow benefited by being able to hit so many. But it doesnt matter when youre dealing a fraction of your damage post-mitigation. This doesnt even include barriers and purge and the inability to use debuff ults such as negate on people. I throw negate on a healer spamming BoL in a zerg and he doesnt have to move or do anything because AOE caps protected him and I silenced some stam build spinning on me. What the hell kind of design is that?

So smart healing in conjunction with how AOE caps works means that defense is the favored one on this equation. The more people you can stack on a point means the less chances you have to actually hit someone with full damage and burst them down. This gameplay is literally being encouraged and it creates an overly simplified, non-dynamic and performance crushing PVP experience.



All in all, as I said on the podcast, this game with the damage nerf this patch is probably in its safest position to remove AOE caps Ive seen yet. Its time to remove AOE caps and go from there. I want positional ults to matter - they used to. Well timed coordinated strikes on groups created some of the best PvP Ive had in any MMO in the first few months of this game. Its time to bring it back and encourage players to return. AOE Caps are the single issue that caused the most amount of players to leave this game in the shortest window. This could be a great thing on many levels!

Asmael

I don't... I...

...

I'm speechless *tears*

...

FENGRUSH FOR PRESIDENT!

Alucardo

Asmael wrote: »

FENGRUSH FOR PRESIDENT!

Hmm, maybe that's what the suit was for..

Manoekin

I'm like 99% sure there has always been AOE caps in the live game. There used to be a time where that didn't matter and you would wipe whole groups with a small group anyway regularly. The tools we had then were ground oils and uncapped ultimates. Even if ZOS is unwilling to uncap all AOE, I see no reason why we can't go back to uncapped ultimates. That would definitely be a step in the right direction and and erase your negate scenario which is really, really stupid. I also miss seeing Gravity Crushes against 20 targets. I'm in favor of just removing it completely, though.

Personally damage and healing are in good spots for me. People are doing a lot more damage than they were on the PTS which is to be expected. Smart heals still don't prioritize group members, though

I wasn't able to listen to the entire podcast, but it didn't seem to get detailed enough that bias was noticeable. Whether you play with 3 people or 24, we all pretty much have the same issues with the game I feel. You don't have to be affected by something to realize it's simply not fair nor fun.

Vehemently oppose nerfing Purge. It's an absolutely necessary skill in a game where debuffs can be spammed endlessly. Capping it is only going to backfire if AOE becomes uncapped, and I think working towards uncapped AOE is the better option. If you ask me, the better option would be to remove the Efficient Purge morph, and make it into a morph the removes 4 debuffs instead of 2(or insert your own morph here). It would have the same cost as Cleanse which is ridiculously high in that case. While I'm able to spam Cleanse for a good amount of time it is something I have to completely build for, and a lot of my stats are gimped as I go for max regen and reduction. This is why if you ever see me in Cyrodiil I'm just going to light attack you for fun or run away healing... because I can't do any damage. Nerfing builds like this only further promotes going full dps spec, imo.

Ishammael

Manoekin wrote: »

I'm like 99% sure there has always been AOE caps in the live game. There used to be a time where that didn't matter and you would wipe whole groups with a small group anyway regularly. The tools we had then were ground oils and uncapped ultimates. Even if ZOS is unwilling to uncap all AOE, I see no reason why we can't go back to uncapped ultimates. That would definitely be a step in the right direction and and erase your negate scenario which is really, really stupid. I also miss seeing Gravity Crushes against 20 targets. I'm in favor of just removing it completely, though.

Personally damage and healing are in good spots for me. People are doing a lot more damage than they were on the PTS which is to be expected. Smart heals still don't prioritize group members, though

I wasn't able to listen to the entire podcast, but it didn't seem to get detailed enough that bias was noticeable. Whether you play with 3 people or 24, we all pretty much have the same issues with the game I feel. You don't have to be affected by something to realize it's simply not fair nor fun.

Vehemently oppose nerfing Purge. It's an absolutely necessary skill in a game where debuffs can be spammed endlessly. Capping it is only going to backfire if AOE becomes uncapped, and I think working towards uncapped AOE is the better option. If you ask me, the better option would be to remove the Efficient Purge morph, and make it into a morph the removes 4 debuffs instead of 2(or insert your own morph here). It would have the same cost as Cleanse which is ridiculously high in that case. While I'm able to spam Cleanse for a good amount of time it is something I have to completely build for, and a lot of my stats are gimped as I go for max regen and reduction. This is why if you ever see me in Cyrodiil I'm just going to light attack you for fun or run away healing... because I can't do any damage. Nerfing builds like this only further promotes going full dps spec, imo.

Agree with Mano about purge. It's totally necessary given recast able debuffs.

Etaniel

Derra wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Send that one up to the devs. AND...especially watch this part: 59:00-1:03:35

I have the biggest man sorc crush on @FENGRUSH right now.

Same here so much truth going out at 59:00, I hope ZOS listens to that

Darnathian

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Thanks for all the kind words here! Thank you again to Sypher to putting this panel together and making this a reality.

Darnathian wrote: »

Quick suggestion. Your cast was very biased though. I encourage you to have a Skilled raid leader or two as well to get a opinions from more of the community. All of you favor small scale pvp, that is obvious.

Not everyone likes that. Many would argue that is the minority. I think that is part of the problem with some of Zos's decisions. Listening to parts of the community vice all.

This has a lot of potential to fixing the game that many love and would come back to

Hey Darnathian, I dont disagree that it was biased with respect that you didnt have the other side of the equation to chat with us. Here is what I can say about this - yes there are lots of great skilled leaders, and skilled players in these large ball groups. Thats really not the issue. If you removed AOE caps, there is only 1 or 2 groups of 20+ players that would still be difficult for my group of 4 to deal with. As it stands currently, those groups cant even be contested by my group of 4, because of AOE caps.

The large majority of other groups of randoms grouping up or whatever, they are difficult to beat solely because they are reducing a majority of the damage we output on them. This is not a good thing -especially given the damage this patch. So while I wouldnt be against having a leader from one of the more skilled groups there, I dont think the opinion would be changed or argued really. AOE caps are not helping things from performance to combat on the field in large scale PvP.

To clarify, Im not against having 20 people in a group for PvP. My problem with it is the *best* way to play with 20 people in a group is to ball them up and ignore a lot of the factors such as strategy, awareness, and positioning. These things become secondary whereas they are primary in all other aspects of the game. Ball groups dumb the game down, and hurt the overall performance and appeal to the game. It literally becomes "a game of numbers". And ESO should strive to create PvP that is better than that. 20 players in a group can still happen, but they should work as a group of 20, not a ball group of <X> size.

timidobserver wrote: »

I put this in another thread with your video linked, but I figured I would put it in your official thread.

I'll offer my Templar perspective since no one on the panel mains a Templar.

Smart heals:
I do not run ball groups. Most of my groups have a max of 4-8 people in it. I think Fengrush is pretty wrong on smart healing. Basically, you guys with your stam build coordinated dps do enough single target damage that absolutely nobody is going to survive it other than maybe a full turtle DK, and you are going to just perma lock the DK and hammer them until they go down. The CP system doesn't help us out at all with your damage, like it does with magical/elemental damage, so we just have to take it to the face. How else am I supposed to keep my team alive if I can't get a heal off as soon as I see you guys spamming your wrecking blows and surprise attacks. You are going to major defile them anyway, so I'll have to try to deal with that before you kill them.

Basically, everyone on the panel is bias because you are all damage focused players, so you want people to just take your damage and die. That is the goal of every one of your builds. You have no Templar or primary support player on your panel, so they don't get their view out there.

I think youre misinterpreting my mentioning of Smart heals. Im not against them or suggesting we change them - reality is the game design has been centered around it since the entire beta; theyre not going anywhere. I was simply referencing when you have large amounts of burst (not single target, AOE) against large ball groups, and NOBODY in that group is taking full damage because of how damage is factored:

I hit 6 of 24 players for full damage, next AOE, I hit a new random 6 targets for full damage - the rest is half at best each time. What this means is while Im trying to burst something in a ball down, there is virtually nobody that will take full damage multiple times in a row. This is where smart healing was brought up. Whoever eats that highest burst, is the target of heals. ZOS mentioned in the stream that healing is capped at 6 and offense hits 60 - They were essentially INFERRING that offense was somehow benefited by being able to hit so many. But it doesnt matter when youre dealing a fraction of your damage post-mitigation. This doesnt even include barriers and purge and the inability to use debuff ults such as negate on people. I throw negate on a healer spamming BoL in a zerg and he doesnt have to move or do anything because AOE caps protected him and I silenced some stam build spinning on me. What the hell kind of design is that?

So smart healing in conjunction with how AOE caps works means that defense is the favored one on this equation. The more people you can stack on a point means the less chances you have to actually hit someone with full damage and burst them down. This gameplay is literally being encouraged and it creates an overly simplified, non-dynamic and performance crushing PVP experience.



All in all, as I said on the podcast, this game with the damage nerf this patch is probably in its safest position to remove AOE caps Ive seen yet. Its time to remove AOE caps and go from there. I want positional ults to matter - they used to. Well timed coordinated strikes on groups created some of the best PvP Ive had in any MMO in the first few months of this game. Its time to bring it back and encourage players to return. AOE Caps are the single issue that caused the most amount of players to leave this game in the shortest window. This could be a great thing on many levels!

I don't disagree with you there. It would be a drastic change though. Every time Zos has done that the game has gotten worse IMO. I am skeptical at this point. In your defense your stance was well thought out.

Remove Damage AOE caps but not instill heal, purge, or barrier caps. Too man changes at once. Something game breaking would be overlooked

Derra

What i don´t like about the video is how you guys keep talking about how you established the small scale pvp playstyle in eso. This is something that has been around for quite some time and is nothing exclusive or new in eso. I´ve been playing in small grps (or limited to one grp back in the day) since about 2003 when organised 8vs8 and 8vsX became popular in daoc.

Therefor i also can´t agree that the devs could not have known about this playstyle. It´s happened in every open pvp game since the early 2000 years (that i have played). The hardcore pvp players try to best as much enemies as they possibly can at the same time while limiting themselves to the games grpsize (or less). Nobody can tell me they did not know about this.

Therefor i think the development team is deliberatly trying to cut down this style of play because they don´t deem it favorable from a monetary pov when some players who invest more time and thought are able to outplay the majority.

Quady

Do you think its able to have campaigns with different rules? For example one with aoe caps, where can zergs fight against zergs if they like caps, one without them for small scale pvp?

FENGRUSH

Manoekin wrote: »

I'm like 99% sure there has always been AOE caps in the live game. There used to be a time where that didn't matter and you would wipe whole groups with a small group anyway regularly. The tools we had then were ground oils and uncapped ultimates. Even if ZOS is unwilling to uncap all AOE, I see no reason why we can't go back to uncapped ultimates. That would definitely be a step in the right direction and and erase your negate scenario which is really, really stupid. I also miss seeing Gravity Crushes against 20 targets. I'm in favor of just removing it completely, though.

Personally damage and healing are in good spots for me. People are doing a lot more damage than they were on the PTS which is to be expected. Smart heals still don't prioritize group members, though

I wasn't able to listen to the entire podcast, but it didn't seem to get detailed enough that bias was noticeable. Whether you play with 3 people or 24, we all pretty much have the same issues with the game I feel. You don't have to be affected by something to realize it's simply not fair nor fun.

Vehemently oppose nerfing Purge. It's an absolutely necessary skill in a game where debuffs can be spammed endlessly. Capping it is only going to backfire if AOE becomes uncapped, and I think working towards uncapped AOE is the better option. If you ask me, the better option would be to remove the Efficient Purge morph, and make it into a morph the removes 4 debuffs instead of 2(or insert your own morph here). It would have the same cost as Cleanse which is ridiculously high in that case. While I'm able to spam Cleanse for a good amount of time it is something I have to completely build for, and a lot of my stats are gimped as I go for max regen and reduction. This is why if you ever see me in Cyrodiil I'm just going to light attack you for fun or run away healing... because I can't do any damage. Nerfing builds like this only further promotes going full dps spec, imo.

Ya there has been caps on various things even back when Im referencing there werent AOE caps. This is on debuffs - but not on ults or damage. There are exceptions. Not having talons hitting 20 people spammable is a good idea for example. There are some things that can retain the treatment to an extent. Ults shouldnt be capped though, damage shouldnt be cut across the board. Some things could be a lot more viable like wall of elements in tight areas if its effect carried through everyone though - its really a case by case basis and having a balance set team actively monitor and adjust things. FENGRUSH is happy to spare any time giving his opinion on these as well to devs! Theres lots of passionate players out there who could put in good input on this as well from small and large group environments. The real thing is to admit there are issues and get the ball moving though IMO.

Darnathian wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Thanks for all the kind words here! Thank you again to Sypher to putting this panel together and making this a reality.

Darnathian wrote: »

Quick suggestion. Your cast was very biased though. I encourage you to have a Skilled raid leader or two as well to get a opinions from more of the community. All of you favor small scale pvp, that is obvious.

Not everyone likes that. Many would argue that is the minority. I think that is part of the problem with some of Zos's decisions. Listening to parts of the community vice all.

This has a lot of potential to fixing the game that many love and would come back to

Hey Darnathian, I dont disagree that it was biased with respect that you didnt have the other side of the equation to chat with us. Here is what I can say about this - yes there are lots of great skilled leaders, and skilled players in these large ball groups. Thats really not the issue. If you removed AOE caps, there is only 1 or 2 groups of 20+ players that would still be difficult for my group of 4 to deal with. As it stands currently, those groups cant even be contested by my group of 4, because of AOE caps.

The large majority of other groups of randoms grouping up or whatever, they are difficult to beat solely because they are reducing a majority of the damage we output on them. This is not a good thing -especially given the damage this patch. So while I wouldnt be against having a leader from one of the more skilled groups there, I dont think the opinion would be changed or argued really. AOE caps are not helping things from performance to combat on the field in large scale PvP.

To clarify, Im not against having 20 people in a group for PvP. My problem with it is the *best* way to play with 20 people in a group is to ball them up and ignore a lot of the factors such as strategy, awareness, and positioning. These things become secondary whereas they are primary in all other aspects of the game. Ball groups dumb the game down, and hurt the overall performance and appeal to the game. It literally becomes "a game of numbers". And ESO should strive to create PvP that is better than that. 20 players in a group can still happen, but they should work as a group of 20, not a ball group of <X> size.

timidobserver wrote: »

I put this in another thread with your video linked, but I figured I would put it in your official thread.

I'll offer my Templar perspective since no one on the panel mains a Templar.

Smart heals:
I do not run ball groups. Most of my groups have a max of 4-8 people in it. I think Fengrush is pretty wrong on smart healing. Basically, you guys with your stam build coordinated dps do enough single target damage that absolutely nobody is going to survive it other than maybe a full turtle DK, and you are going to just perma lock the DK and hammer them until they go down. The CP system doesn't help us out at all with your damage, like it does with magical/elemental damage, so we just have to take it to the face. How else am I supposed to keep my team alive if I can't get a heal off as soon as I see you guys spamming your wrecking blows and surprise attacks. You are going to major defile them anyway, so I'll have to try to deal with that before you kill them.

Basically, everyone on the panel is bias because you are all damage focused players, so you want people to just take your damage and die. That is the goal of every one of your builds. You have no Templar or primary support player on your panel, so they don't get their view out there.

I think youre misinterpreting my mentioning of Smart heals. Im not against them or suggesting we change them - reality is the game design has been centered around it since the entire beta; theyre not going anywhere. I was simply referencing when you have large amounts of burst (not single target, AOE) against large ball groups, and NOBODY in that group is taking full damage because of how damage is factored:

I hit 6 of 24 players for full damage, next AOE, I hit a new random 6 targets for full damage - the rest is half at best each time. What this means is while Im trying to burst something in a ball down, there is virtually nobody that will take full damage multiple times in a row. This is where smart healing was brought up. Whoever eats that highest burst, is the target of heals. ZOS mentioned in the stream that healing is capped at 6 and offense hits 60 - They were essentially INFERRING that offense was somehow benefited by being able to hit so many. But it doesnt matter when youre dealing a fraction of your damage post-mitigation. This doesnt even include barriers and purge and the inability to use debuff ults such as negate on people. I throw negate on a healer spamming BoL in a zerg and he doesnt have to move or do anything because AOE caps protected him and I silenced some stam build spinning on me. What the hell kind of design is that?

So smart healing in conjunction with how AOE caps works means that defense is the favored one on this equation. The more people you can stack on a point means the less chances you have to actually hit someone with full damage and burst them down. This gameplay is literally being encouraged and it creates an overly simplified, non-dynamic and performance crushing PVP experience.



All in all, as I said on the podcast, this game with the damage nerf this patch is probably in its safest position to remove AOE caps Ive seen yet. Its time to remove AOE caps and go from there. I want positional ults to matter - they used to. Well timed coordinated strikes on groups created some of the best PvP Ive had in any MMO in the first few months of this game. Its time to bring it back and encourage players to return. AOE Caps are the single issue that caused the most amount of players to leave this game in the shortest window. This could be a great thing on many levels!

I don't disagree with you there. It would be a drastic change though. Every time Zos has done that the game has gotten worse IMO. I am skeptical at this point. In your defense your stance was well thought out.

Remove Damage AOE caps but not instill heal, purge, or barrier caps. Too man changes at once. Something game breaking would be overlooked

I wont disagree with that either - it would be a drastic change in the meta, but its happened before. Im not suggesting a complete radical change in all skills at once either. Making balance and meta changes is best approached by slowly implementing various changes to see their impact, not making a huge amount of radical changes where it is difficult to gauge the effect of one change in a pool of many changes.

Helba

Great stuff, looking forward to the next one. The first part of solving the ESO's issues is talking about it and bringing attention to it. Sharing with all my buds for sure.

Armitas

I was really impressed by all 4 of you and would like to see see more interaction between ZOS and yourselves as class leaders (will have to add a temp, maybe blaba?). If you get the job just keep in touch with us on the eso forums, and see where the rest of us are at, we need advocates because ZOS's secret and private science labs are not working and they don't appear to be hearing us here or on the pts.

Yeah ZOS really dropped the ball on CP. There is no excuse for the amount of negligence as they continued to watch the problem develop while they took steps to exacerbate it with crown store items. Now they are in a bind and stuck with having to upset a lot of people to keep a lot more people from becoming upset. That is the price you pay for not being diligent on things that were predictable, easily predictable, even before we gave our input on the PTS. That they are just now doing something about a problem that could not fail to present itself from the beginning defies any reasonable attempt at an explanation.

It was nice to hear other classes talk about where the DK is right now. There are a lot of fixes that need to be made for the DK but I can think of one simple fix, at least simple conceptually that they could implement without changing too much. I suggested it here, Fixing the Magicka DK in 1 move (mostly). It's basically the same concept as RS but for physical moves making us a class that relies on other classes strengths as our own strength. The other way I think would be to make it so DOTS are not so easily trivialized in PvP because our class damage isn't bad when combined with dots. But when you take the dots off the table we just have whip which has a base damage that is on par with deep slash from the tanking line which is also an AOE, a snare and a maim lol. Maybe the dots could remain useful through purge via an inevitable detonation mechanic but I don't have any thoughts yet on what should happen if they are purged. Such a thing could quickly and easily be overpowered, especially in regards to how it could interact with cloak. ...edit. Maybe they take the remainder as damage all at once but reduce that damage by a percentage so that some benefit still occurred from purge. This would discourage immediate purging, ensures that at least some of the dot will be effective and it would ensure that purge remains a total benefit.

Derra

Well now they´ve made it official. They don´t want smallscale at all.

Rezzing no longer possible while hidden or invisible on pts. Classic ZOS!

Edit: I really think you should not continue with this podcast cause the only thing they´re taking from it is what to nerf next.

blabafat

Derra wrote: »

Well now they´ve made it official. They don´t want smallscale at all.

Rezzing no longer possible while hidden or invisible on pts. Classic ZOS!

Edit: I really think you should not continue with this podcast cause the only thing they´re taking from it is what to nerf next.

Omg is that a confirmed thing??

Wollust

blabafat wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Well now they´ve made it official. They don´t want smallscale at all.

Rezzing no longer possible while hidden or invisible on pts. Classic ZOS!

Edit: I really think you should not continue with this podcast cause the only thing they´re taking from it is what to nerf next.

Omg is that a confirmed thing??

Look at the pts patch notes.

Short: it's true.

FENGRUSH

Random changes like that make no sense - who asked for it? Why? Pretty much the only way to creep around and ress in sewers when massive groups sit on bodies. Dont mind the ball groups though, they will indiscriminately ress midfight nonstop to simply maintain an overwhelming numerical advantage.

Armitas

Yeah, stealth rez has been around forever. The only thing that has changed is stealth pots got a huge nerf and the speed rez set was released. I really hope they are not nerfing this because of those two changes. That's the opposite of the way things should be changed. You should anticipate the outcome of the changes you make before you make the change. Not blindly flip the switch and see what happens so you can fix it in perfect lighting after the fact. We can't keep chasing new things with nerfs just to fit them in, they need to fit before we put them in.

Derra

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Random changes like that make no sense - who asked for it? Why? Pretty much the only way to creep around and ress in sewers when massive groups sit on bodies. Dont mind the ball groups though, they will indiscriminately ress midfight nonstop to simply maintain an overwhelming numerical advantage.

They want the zerg to win. That´s the explanation that makes sense. It´s just not one people want to hear.

Manoekin

I'm fine with it as long as they add a res timer. Just add an increasing 1minute interval res penalty for dying within a minute of ressing or so. Let it stack to 10minutes and reset upon ressing at a keep or gate.

Dreyloch

I'm catching this afterward. Wish I could've watched it live. But this gives me time to pose my question to the panel.

Do any of you think (and this is something I've posted many times on these forums) that Zenimax could or should make all skills and abilities work differently or do damage dependent on what area your in? So if your PvP'ing, you may get less shielding or damage from an ability (or more)VS. when your in a dungeon doing PvE.In order to give separation and balance to the classes.

IMO, so much of what is going on with one build or another on w/e class...is based on trying to make it fit in both styles of play. A good example of this was EQ2. They had a PvP system where once you went into that area, your skills would do more or less in order to give players the best balance they could.When you left, your skills reverted back to what they normally were.

Also what was with the shirt and tie FENGRUSH? It wasn't a job interview =P (that is unless you were coming from one hehe) Get comfy man! I wanna party/drink with Lefty. drunken PvP rocks!

edit: reading more this idea might not agree with the justice system. IDK how to make that work within that scope. My idea is based on traveling to exclusive PvP areas /shrug

aco5712

Darnathian wrote: »

Quick suggestion. Your cast was very biased though. I encourage you to have a Skilled raid leader or two as well to get a opinions from more of the community. All of you favor small scale pvp, that is obvious.

Not everyone likes that. Many would argue that is the minority. I think that is part of the problem with some of Zos's decisions. Listening to parts of the community vice all.

This has a lot of potential to fixing the game that many love and would come back to

i favour 12-16 man groups and i agree with everything that was said. Leaders of 24+ man zergs arent allowed to speak because they are the problem.

k2blader

Darnathian wrote: »

Quick suggestion. Your cast was very biased though. I encourage you to have a Skilled raid leader or two as well to get a opinions from more of the community. All of you favor small scale pvp, that is obvious.

Not everyone likes that. Many would argue that is the minority. I think that is part of the problem with some of Zos's decisions. Listening to parts of the community vice all.

This has a lot of potential to fixing the game that many love and would come back to

Agree (first time for that, maybe, lol). I'd really like to see guild mid-to-large group leaders voice their opinions.

[edit] To anyone saying large group leaders "don't count"/"are part of the problem" way to be incomprehensibly in opposition to the way Cyrodiil was designed and how most non-hardcore players play. 4 people shouldn't be able to beat 30, and 12 already can.

eliisra

aco5712 wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

Quick suggestion. Your cast was very biased though. I encourage you to have a Skilled raid leader or two as well to get a opinions from more of the community. All of you favor small scale pvp, that is obvious.

Not everyone likes that. Many would argue that is the minority. I think that is part of the problem with some of Zos's decisions. Listening to parts of the community vice all.

This has a lot of potential to fixing the game that many love and would come back to

i favour 12-16 man groups and i agree with everything that was said. Leaders of 24+ man zergs arent allowed to speak because they are the problem.

Yet you're also a zerg leader, when you run over real small scale players, with your team of 16 AoE bombers.

Zerging was never about exact amount of people in the group. It's about how many enemies you fight with those numbers. If a 20-man raid is defended the last standing keep from 80+ enemies, are they really zerging and being the problem?

Large raids are not the main issue, is the fact that it's becoming harder and harder, every single patch, for smaller groups to wipe bigger numbers.

FENGRUSH

Dreyloch wrote: »

I'm catching this afterward. Wish I could've watched it live. But this gives me time to pose my question to the panel.

Do any of you think (and this is something I've posted many times on these forums) that Zenimax could or should make all skills and abilities work differently or do damage dependent on what area your in? So if your PvP'ing, you may get less shielding or damage from an ability (or more)VS. when your in a dungeon doing PvE.In order to give separation and balance to the classes.

IMO, so much of what is going on with one build or another on w/e class...is based on trying to make it fit in both styles of play. A good example of this was EQ2. They had a PvP system where once you went into that area, your skills would do more or less in order to give players the best balance they could.When you left, your skills reverted back to what they normally were.

Also what was with the shirt and tie FENGRUSH? It wasn't a job interview =P (that is unless you were coming from one hehe) Get comfy man! I wanna party/drink with Lefty. drunken PvP rocks!

edit: reading more this idea might not agree with the justice system. IDK how to make that work within that scope. My idea is based on traveling to exclusive PvP areas /shrug

Not sure where the justice system is at either - well need more info on their final goal to give better opinions I think, we can only speak wishfully about it in some ways it seems.

As far as skills functioning differently in differing environments - Im not too sure. My main thing when proposing ideas to Zenimax is to keep it simple. Im a strong advocate of keeping it simple when proposing changes/solutions to them so Im not asking much and can argue all sides of a proposed change with a level of confidence. This is something that takes a lot more thought but its not a bad idea at all. Some of the 'meta' type changes have been argued with "well what about PVE though," so if thats what it takes then the discussion can certainly go there. The first real hope from my point of view is to open that line of communication with ZOS and try to get some feedback on thoughts and ideas proposed.

As far as the suit goes - I had just come from a wedding, I was actually late getting on the stream so I literally had no time to even change. Just got in the door and hopped on the stream.

aco5712 wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

Quick suggestion. Your cast was very biased though. I encourage you to have a Skilled raid leader or two as well to get a opinions from more of the community. All of you favor small scale pvp, that is obvious.

Not everyone likes that. Many would argue that is the minority. I think that is part of the problem with some of Zos's decisions. Listening to parts of the community vice all.

This has a lot of potential to fixing the game that many love and would come back to

i favour 12-16 man groups and i agree with everything that was said. Leaders of 24+ man zergs arent allowed to speak because they are the problem.

Agree strongly - I dont run groups of this size but I think mechanics and skills (such as new sets that buff, alliance buffs, effects etc.) should be limited up to a size of 12. I think from a 'large group' perspective, you can really focus and make strong choices at a point of 12. When you get to levels of 20+ you are simply running multiple roles of the same thing for redundancy to cover the misplays of others and to add layers of effect for a compounding effect that functions very well in the game design. Beyond that - AOE caps get stronger and stronger with numbers.

Jaronking

Hey Sypher can we get a update on when the next video will be?