The Failstrom Arena

Rayste

I feel the arena is a great addition. I understand the need to have group play in an MMO, but your friends should keep you here until that next DLC.

Cuyler

Rayste wrote: »

I feel the arena is a great addition. I understand the need to have group play in an MMO, but your friends should keep you here until that next DLC.

Yea I agree it's real good content it simply exasperates a pre exisitng problem with the game. I'll be good either way, I'm not the one with the grouping problems (ppl are assuming this). I'm just not a "wool over the eyes" kind of person and won't dismiss I see the casual players having a real tough time. I care about the longevity of the game.

Cuyler

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

Soulshine wrote: »

MikeB wrote: »

People need to realize this is an MMO not an RPG, it takes a lot more balancing, bug fixing and tweaking to get everything right for release. If something is OP or broken in a RPG no one cares (unless it prevents progress), if its in an MMO, well you read the forums. Other MMO's only release DLC once a year (or longer), while ESO is releasing DLC every quarter. Just look at it this way, instead of getting everything packed into one DLC yearly we are getting new DLC quarterly. While one DLC may focus on PvP, the second group content and trials, the third solo play and the fourth.... who knows, they are focusing on one side of the game per quarter release. While this may not be optimal for those of us waiting on "our turn" I'm sure it helps ZoS debug smaller DLC's 4x a year than one large DLC once a year. If you think the Bugs are bad now could you imaging if Craglorn, Imperial City, Orsinium and another zone was released at the same time?

Your argument has proven already to work against itself when it comes to this developer however, because the number one complaint from all segments of the player base has been lack of viable content across the spectrum. No one has asked for level cap increases three times in one year, incomplete progresson systems that have changed twice in the same amount of time, or a rash of rushed game features that are buggy and causing game imbalances, to name but a few.

There is a reason why many other MMOs release expansions on a 6 month to a year average, and it isn't because of things like lack of competency to do so quicker or limited resources to finance them. Those reasons may hold true with a small percentage of lesser known games from non AAA title developers, but not from a mammoth company on the spread sheet. It is because they have learned over the many years in this now dwindling market, that player demand for variety and choice in content is what sells the most. Offering large expansions with level cap increases and gear progression to match sustains player interest, as does giving end game players time to actually enjoy the fruits of their efforts. Even those players that burn through new content in a day or two to get to max level still have lots to do and see and work towards.

Yet here they insist on isolating content delivery based on type of playstyle, piggybacked on payment model structure. They have repeatedly ticked off huge amounts of people by doing this, let alone introduced issues to the game which would otherwise not be as pronounced had they but done things smartly instead of attempting to reinvent the wheel. As is, the wheel is pretty much in dire need of retreading and the game is less than two years live.

While taken individually, I like the concepts of Craglorn, IC especially, and Orsinium, it is quite clear to me having seen footage on it well over one year ago that they could have planned and executed their release in a very different manner but simply chose not to do so. I think the constant rifts that this creates among the players is the resulting, unintended yet often ignored venom that will eventually kill this game if they do not address it in some other way besides "wait, son. You'll get yours soon."

This isn't about wanting eveything now. It's about wanting to feel like this game is worth investing in. Some people may totally be cool with buying or subbing to a game only 25% of the year, but I highly doubt that is what will make this game or sny other the viable experience we wanted.

*insightful*

My concern is not about "the next trial" (though I assume it is probably a solution ), but about not turning away current and potential tradition mmo/group players by segregating the player base for 3 months as we're forced to the arena for solo gameplay.

Except no one is "forcing" anything. People that go there and spend all their time there do so by choice.

you're focusing on the minute details m8 look at the bigger picture.

Personofsecrets

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

@NativeJoe - you don't need a purge to complete the arena at all. The "purge level" you are referring to actually has a bug in it where you can purge instead of using the mechanic of the arena.

@Cuyler - We're working on a new trial. Let us get Orsinium released on live before we start talking future DLC in more detail.

It's too late Rich, it's too late.

Scyantific

freespirit wrote: »

What about the two new Public Dungeons that come with Orsinium, aren't they group content?

Gonna post a video of me solo-ing both dungeons once this crap hits live.

Xjcon

In march they gave us the CP system with no new content. We chewed on AA, HRC, and SO for what more then 8 months now and the gear that drops from the bosses there has been pretty much useless for 6 months.

Now all we get is a statement that we will get more group content Soon? When? A year after CP was introduced?

I will happily play Orsinium just like I happily play IC. But I've been part of the end game since December last year and since then I've seen hordes of people stop logging in due to nothing new to do since Craglorn was introduced.

It's frustrating for sure.

Rayste

Cuyler wrote: »

Rayste wrote: »

I feel the arena is a great addition. I understand the need to have group play in an MMO, but your friends should keep you here until that next DLC.

Yea I agree it's real good content it simply exasperates a pre exisitng problem with the game. I'll be good either way, I'm not the one with the grouping problems (ppl are assuming this). I'm just not a "wool over the eyes" kind of person and won't dismiss I see the casual players having a real tough time. I care about the longevity of the game.

Same.

Scyantific

Frustrating is putting it lightly.

Just imagine when the rest of the PvE casuals get to endgame and realize there's nothing to do.

timidobserver

Scyantific wrote: »

freespirit wrote: »

What about the two new Public Dungeons that come with Orsinium, aren't they group content?

Gonna post a video of me solo-ing both dungeons once this crap hits live.

Good luck with that for the first month or so. Maybe if you do it at 5 a.m.

Sausage

We need effective group-finder, players can put requests, every player online sees it on their UI, everyone jump to it as it gives awesome reward. Easy, Effective and Fast. Just like me.

Shadesofkin

Bfish22090 wrote: »

What's wrong with getting v12 gear from trials?

Actually, nothing, if when you chose to do the Trial you could select a Veteran Mode for post VR12 groups that would drop higher level gear or tokens (trophies) for getting better gear afterwards.

Vrienda

I'll just be happy to finally be able to get past vet 12, since zeni keep patching farming spots, craglorn forces you to group and I hit a road block in the imperial city questline due to forced grouping (The watcher in the walls, nobody wants to do that blood quest for some reason) I've had no way to level, I welcome an arena that I can farm the guar out of!

Scyantific

Aeula wrote: »

I'll just be happy to finally be able to get past vet 12, since zeni keep patching farming spots, craglorn forces you to group and I hit a road block in the imperial city questline due to forced grouping (The watcher in the walls, nobody wants to do that blood quest for some reason) I've had no way to level, I welcome an arena that I can farm the guar out of!

Good job you just told them exactly what spot to nerf for the day zero patch.

Vrienda

Scyantific wrote: »

Aeula wrote: »

I'll just be happy to finally be able to get past vet 12, since zeni keep patching farming spots, craglorn forces you to group and I hit a road block in the imperial city questline due to forced grouping (The watcher in the walls, nobody wants to do that blood quest for some reason) I've had no way to level, I welcome an arena that I can farm the guar out of!

Good job you just told them exactly what spot to nerf for the day zero patch.

I'm amusing they won't. Since the entire point of that Arena is to give solo players something to do for once. Damn I hope orsinium questing gives good exp.

Korah_Eaglecry

JD2013 wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Ok first of all it's only been 2 or 3 days and already someone is complaining? Well don't worry Zenimax not everyone in your playerbase is a crybaby.

Secondly people have been wanting more soloable PvE for max level or close since Craglorn and Cyrodiil don't quite foot that bill.

Thirdly Zenimax already stated that a trial is scheduled for release in a future update after Orsinium is released so chillax.

^fanboy

Or someone who is just pointing out the situation as it is.

JD2013 wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

@NativeJoe - you don't need a purge to complete the arena at all. The "purge level" you are referring to actually has a bug in it where you can purge instead of using the mechanic of the arena.

@Cuyler - We're working on a new trial. Let us get Orsinium released on live before we start talking future DLC in more detail.

But everyone around here must have everything they want now or not at all! /s

Calm down guys. New trials are coming.

Cuyler wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Ok first of all it's only been 2 or 3 days and already someone is complaining? Well don't worry Zenimax not everyone in your playerbase is a crybaby.

Secondly people have been wanting more soloable PvE for max level or close since Craglorn and Cyrodiil don't quite foot that bill.

Thirdly Zenimax already stated that a trial is scheduled for release in a future update after Orsinium is released so chillax.

^fanboy

People are allowed to like the game, you know. It's not illegal.

naw all you guys need a reality check is all see below. not like I want it now....just want it in the next year

Cuyler wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Ok first of all it's only been 2 or 3 days and already someone is complaining? Well don't worry Zenimax not everyone in your playerbase is a crybaby.

Secondly people have been wanting more soloable PvE for max level or close since Craglorn and Cyrodiil don't quite foot that bill.

Thirdly Zenimax already stated that a trial is scheduled for release in a future update after Orsinium is released so chillax.

^fanboy. So ooooo just wait for the game to get moar boring cause everyone going to be soloing.....right. Do you even realize how long we waited just for wgt and icp? at this rate we'll have seen two new group dungeons and 1 solo arena in 1.5 years ha. just keep waiting right

Then if you dislike the game so much and call anyone who likes the game a fanboy, why stay?

Pretty sure the guy attacked him first with 'crybaby'...So not sure why youre attacking this guy unless youre unable to spend the time to actually read out what was said.

Maybe pay attention alittle more?

Fetaro

Such a stupid thread title...

firstdecan

It wasn't the release of IC that killed trials or anything else, trials killed trials. It's 'elitist' content designed for the 1% of players who have nothing else to do but memorize every encounter in the trial and run them over and over again. They're boring, and now that they're not needed for end game gear very few people want to do them.

I've completed them all at least once, I do not look forward to them ever again. I do not like the OCD mentality of the people who run them, I do not like the repetitiveness of running the same encounters over and over, and I do not like the amount of time it takes to get people together to run them.

ZoS had given trials "special rewards" so people would run them (in fairness, trials are not the only aspect of the game where "special rewards" were used). Without those special rewards no one cares about them. They're simply not fun for most people. Once players got whatever gear they needed for their build, most would stop doing trials. This was simply accelerated by ZoS removing the need for any gear from trials.

stevenbennett_ESO

Cuyler wrote: »

I've read them. you're clearly missing my point. June of 2014 is when ZOS put us on ice for new content. Then they're big news was IC which has 2 vet PvE dungeons.......... it's now October 2015...... ..... ...... ...... ..... ...... .................

Really? Then I guess the new trial and Dragonstar Arena which were added with Upper Craglorn a year ago weren't "new content"?

I'm suspecting you don't count things like expanded delves, veteran City of Ash, or major new systems like the Champion System and Justice System as new content - I could potentially agree with that interpretation. I can definitely agree that the Tamriel Unlimited switchover and the Crown store don't really count as new content, either.

But honestly, you're making *WAY* too much out of Orsinium not containing new group content. All of these things (IC, Orsinium, and what comes after) were well under development before ESO development was seriously delayed by the Console and Tamriel Unlimited switchovers. Now that *that* mess is out of the way, they've been producing new content at a significantly faster pace than we could rightfully expect.

They announced *quarterly* DLCs - which I was skeptical about - that's really hard to maintain, and yet, they're managing to get Orsinium out a full month *sooner* than that quarterly rate would have predicted. But it's useless to complain about the timing -- it takes a LONG time to go from concept for this to release, especially for new content. Game rebalancing changes can happen ridiculously fast compared to new content - they only require code changes and a lot of testing. New content means writing, then design, then new artwork, then making new models and animation and sound effects and music and voice recording and coding and *then* a lot of testing. All of these stages take time and often depend on earlier stages - you simply can't say "Oh, they need X content *now*, lets move X up 6 months and shift Y back instead…"

Both IC and Craglorn were in the works well over a year ago, and were released when they were ready to be released. The new group content you want has been in the works for a long time, too. It'll come out when it comes out. They've probably mapped out and are working on content right now which won't be out for a year or more.

So… chill for a bit, and be happy that they're back to actually releasing content at all, because it means *your* content is on it's way. Just not as soon as you'd like.

Jura23

I will safe my judgment about this arena until I play it on live. If I can finish it, then great, it's very good content. If I can't, then it's terrible and needs a nerf.

vegeta0585b14_ESO

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

@NativeJoe - you don't need a purge to complete the arena at all. The "purge level" you are referring to actually has a bug in it where you can purge instead of using the mechanic of the arena.

@Cuyler - We're working on a new trial. Let us get Orsinium released on live before we start talking future DLC in more detail.

just dont let old content fall into irrelevancy. This is still an MMO not a single player game, challenging group content is what keeps a lot of people here. Not all, but a lot.

twistedmonk

I don't know...I like the idea of challenging myself in a solo arena...call me crazy.

Also I love the fact the Maelstrom arena awards individuals for their personal skill...as opposed to getting a reward for doing group content. In my wildest fantasies, I'd rather seen something like a bronze/silver/gold reward system...where most, if not all, people can complete bronze, but rewarded with a weapon that is good, but not great. silver maybe 40% can complete it but the weapon is much better, and gold reward that only maybe 5-10% can complete, but the weapon is best in slot. that would be challenging for the developers to do something like that...but that would be ideal.

also...this game is setup to be a solo experience - questing/crafting/aoe grinding. for good or bad. I've seen games where you were forced to group to be able to do anything - that is horrible and I dont think anybody wants that.

Maybe if they added more rewards for dungeons to get people to want to do them more than once for the skill point.

I guess the trials are there for organized groups for the challenge...but that's too hard for like 90% of the people to be honest. I don't want this to turn into a hardcore wow-style game with gear chasing each patch.

Cuyler

firstdecan wrote: »

I've completed them all at least once, I do not look forward to them ever again. I do not like the OCD mentality of the people who run them, I do not like the repetitiveness of running the same encounters over and over

I'm sorry you had such a negative experience. This has not been my experience however, most the people I group with are generally fun and nice save for few outliers. Question though.....if you do not like repetitive tasks what exactly do you do in this game? It's all repetitive

stevenbennett_ESO wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

I've read them. you're clearly missing my point. June of 2014 is when ZOS put us on ice for new content. Then they're big news was IC which has 2 vet PvE dungeons.......... it's now October 2015...... ..... ...... ...... ..... ...... .................

Really? Then I guess the new trial and Dragonstar Arena which were added with Upper Craglorn a year ago weren't "new content"?

I'm suspecting you don't count things like expanded delves, veteran City of Ash, or major new systems like the Champion System and Justice System as new content - I could potentially agree with that interpretation.

I apologize...I was typing in a flurry of responses at that point. Let me reiterate....Upper crag came out in 9/14 and it is now 10/15 a year and one month later. The next GROUP dlc will release probably in 2/16, a total of 1 year and 5 months later or approximately a year and a half. And no I don't count soloable delves, ui systems (CS) or the justice system (more solo content atm w/o the thieves guild or enforcers). vCOA, well yeah....so three dungeons since 9/14...point still stands.

stevenbennett_ESO wrote: »

So… chill for a bit, and be happy that they're back to actually releasing content at all, because it means *your* content is on it's way. Just not as soon as you'd like.

Like I said before, I'm not a "be happy they're doing anything and chill" kind of consumer. I'll voice my opinion and leave it there. If we all would "just be happy they're doing anything and chill a bit"....wouldn't that be such a grand, opinion less and manageable market of sheep for ZOS to cradle to sleep. But I digress..

I'd like to remind everyone the point of this thread is not "how long I have to wait" or "i want a new trial now"....the point is dedicating an entire quarter of your business year to solo content when you've built and advertised as an MMO, and grouping within that MMO being difficult as all hell is no Bueno. This arena should be piggy backed onto some new vet dungeons (more than 2)/trials/whatever you want to call it group content that gets the zones buzzing again with groups.

twistedmonk wrote: »

also...this game is setup to be a solo experience - questing/crafting/aoe grinding. for good or bad. I've seen games where you were forced to group to be able to do anything - that is horrible and I dont think anybody wants that.

Maybe if they added more rewards for dungeons to get people to want to do them more than once for the skill point.

I guess the trials are there for organized groups for the challenge...but that's too hard for like 90% of the people to be honest. I don't want this to turn into a hardcore wow-style game with gear chasing each patch.

I've said it multiple times here. I like the new Arena...it's great content! I don't want a gear grind either...

I just hope the new arena doesn't turn this game into elder scrolls 6 for 3 months.

BugCollector

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

@NativeJoe - you don't need a purge to complete the arena at all. The "purge level" you are referring to actually has a bug in it where you can purge instead of using the mechanic of the arena.

@Cuyler - We're working on a new trial. Let us get Orsinium released on live before we start talking future DLC in more detail.

Only one new trial? After a whole year of nothing?

firstdecan

Cuyler wrote: »

firstdecan wrote: »

I've completed them all at least once, I do not look forward to them ever again. I do not like the OCD mentality of the people who run them, I do not like the repetitiveness of running the same encounters over and over

I'm sorry you had such a negative experience. This has not been my experience however, most the people I group with are generally fun and nice save for few outliers. Question though.....if you do not like repetitive tasks what exactly do you do in this game? It's all repetitive

I wouldn't call it a negative experience, it's just not my cup of tea. Personally I'm glad they have content for the people that this appeals to, but it's really a minority of the player population. You couldn't take 12 casuals \ pugs, throw them into a trial and expect them to get very far. These are for the player who has multiple hour game sessions numerous days during the week. Unless you know the trial and enjoy running it over and over again, you're not going to do that. That takes a certain level of OCD (colloquially, not clinically), and the majority of players (the dirty casuals) probably don't want or have that much time to spend. I did them to see what 'end game raiding' was like. Been there, done that, it's an activity that takes too much time.

As far as what I do in the game, I mostly PvP and quest with alts. The questing is really repetitive, but it's enjoyable when I just want something mindless. The PvP is still the most fun, I'm actually enjoying it more now that many of the 'highly addicted' gamers have moved on. It's easy enough to get a group and find objectives for whatever group size you may have, and no one has to be the perfect player or build to have fun.

Cuyler

firstdecan wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

firstdecan wrote: »

I've completed them all at least once, I do not look forward to them ever again. I do not like the OCD mentality of the people who run them, I do not like the repetitiveness of running the same encounters over and over

I'm sorry you had such a negative experience. This has not been my experience however, most the people I group with are generally fun and nice save for few outliers. Question though.....if you do not like repetitive tasks what exactly do you do in this game? It's all repetitive

I wouldn't call it a negative experience, it's just not my cup of tea. Personally I'm glad they have content for the people that this appeals to, but it's really a minority of the player population. You couldn't take 12 casuals \ pugs, throw them into a trial and expect them to get very far. These are for the player who has multiple hour game sessions numerous days during the week. Unless you know the trial and enjoy running it over and over again, you're not going to do that. That takes a certain level of OCD (colloquially, not clinically), and the majority of players (the dirty casuals) probably don't want or have that much time to spend. I did them to see what 'end game raiding' was like. Been there, done that, it's an activity that takes too much time.

Fair enough. You're correct, once a consistent team gets a couple clears and knows the fights trials becomes easy and simply a score based leaderboards game. But when coming up through trials myself, as a lowly pug struggling to even get my first AA clear, it was fun and challenging. I still appreciate that one can't just throw together 12 monkeys and expect to get on the leaderboard.

The game needs end game content that can't be just strolled through. It's rated mature, so technically were mostly adults...however 90% of the game content is so easy a 7 year old could do it. That type of content doesn't engage anyone, but it is quick and easy I'll give ya that.

firstdecan wrote: »

As far as what I do in the game, I mostly PvP and quest with alts. The questing is really repetitive, but it's enjoyable when I just want something mindless. The PvP is still the most fun, I'm actually enjoying it more now that many of the 'highly addicted' gamers have moved on. It's easy enough to get a group and find objectives for whatever group size you may have, and no one has to be the perfect player or build to have fun.

Yea PvP is the only saving grace for the end game atm. It's still easy to get a raid together quickly and go take some keeps or resources. And having other players constantly changing things up keeps it interesting. good times.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

lol I love it. When craglorn came out I complained it was a pain because everything required a group and the quests were long and tedious. I was told to shut up its a MMO and deal with it. Now solo players finally get something after all this time and everyone whines about it. If grouping is so fun and rewarding why on earth is anyone worried about a solo arena?

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

BugCollector wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

@NativeJoe - you don't need a purge to complete the arena at all. The "purge level" you are referring to actually has a bug in it where you can purge instead of using the mechanic of the arena.

@Cuyler - We're working on a new trial. Let us get Orsinium released on live before we start talking future DLC in more detail.

Only one new trial? After a whole year of nothing?

A whole year of nothing? Group players have had ALL the new content since launch. Imperial City, Craglorn, VSA, trials etc. Finally after a year and a half they decide to do a solo friendly DLC and everyone throws a fit. 1 year of nothing haha. What hyperbolish nonsense.

TalonShina

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

BugCollector wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

@NativeJoe - you don't need a purge to complete the arena at all. The "purge level" you are referring to actually has a bug in it where you can purge instead of using the mechanic of the arena.

@Cuyler - We're working on a new trial. Let us get Orsinium released on live before we start talking future DLC in more detail.

Only one new trial? After a whole year of nothing?

A whole year of nothing? Group players have had ALL the new content since launch. Imperial City, Craglorn, VSA, trials etc. Finally after a year and a half they decide to do a solo friendly DLC and everyone throws a fit. 1 year of nothing haha. What hyperbolish nonsense.

Must agree with you there.

I wouldn't mind if they scaled the trials and such but my question is it seems like everyone "complaining about group content like trials" wants the carrot on the stick if it's fun and you want to feel competitive why not just do the trials as is? Now I am not saying that is wasn't a bad move to not scale them, but they were meant for the edge that competiveness not just the carrot on the stick and a lot of the complaints I have seen are about getting better rewards. Shouldn't the reward be pushing yourself to the top of the leaderboard?

Birdovic

I'm really happy for the Solo Content, always searching hours for a group is just boring. I can come home from work and immediately can try beating the solo arena if there is no group available for a vet dungeon as example.
At the same time I'd say it's best to release Orsinium + Update the trials to VR16 at once, like this people can decide which they want to do themselves without being forced into "boring solo" or "annoying grouping", and people will be satisfied/entertained until the next dlc is released which most likely will bring a new trial.

Cuyler

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

lol I love it. When craglorn came out I complained it was a pain because everything required a group and the quests were long and tedious. I was told to shut up its a MMO and deal with it. Now solo players finally get something after all this time and everyone whines about it. If grouping is so fun and rewarding why on earth is anyone worried about a solo arena?

I can reiterate it for you lol....you're playing ESO (an MMO) not Elder Scrolls 6.

The reason for concern is not because "grouping is annoying" and arena is "quick to go to". The concern is that ZOS makes new gear in the new content that is best in slot (BiS) and everyone is going to want to go there, which will turn this into a solo game for three months.

I covered this already at length...did you read the thread or just post after you read the last comment?

Actually the poster after you explains the solution perfectly:

andypappb16_ESO wrote: »

At the same time I'd say it's best to release Orsinium + Update the trials to VR16 at once, like this people can decide which they want to do themselves without being forced into "boring solo" or "annoying grouping", and people will be satisfied/entertained until the next dlc is released which most likely will bring a new trial.

The only reason we divide into these camps (solo, grouping etc.) and bicker between who gets what content and when is because ZOS's release schedule/model blews. The community would be a lot less toxic and all the better if everyone got a little taste of new stuff each quarter.