Fix hardened ward - if you won't address shield stacking

RinaldoGandolphi

I don't think Hardened Ward alone is the problem, its combining it with other shields is the issue. It always has been.

regardless, just nerfing Hardened Ward will solve nothing. Sorc's don't exactly have the best healing options unless they use a resto staff, so we have to see both sides of the equation here.

I think a great many things in this game need tweaked, but singling out a Sorc's shield without addressing other issues is simply unfair...Hardened Ward is the only thing that keeps Sorc's from being 1 shot from stealth by Archers and Nightblade gank attacks...take that away and Sorc's are not viable.

Emma_Overload

Baphomet wrote: »

This is ability is just too good, costs too little and lasts too long = i.e god mode.

This was one of the worste culprits to the balance in 1.6 and still is. It's embarrasing that this ability has not been properly balanced yet. It's not like we're talking bad coding, mechanical issues or anything here - just needs the numbers adjusted.

FALSE. If anything, Hardened Ward needs to be BUFFED back to 100%. 50% is NOT enough in the Imperial City when you're fighting mobs that hit for full strength.

Firerock2

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

show previous quotes

Baphomet wrote: »

This is ability is just too good, costs too little and lasts too long = i.e god mode.

This was one of the worste culprits to the balance in 1.6 and still is. It's embarrasing that this ability has not been properly balanced yet. It's not like we're talking bad coding, mechanical issues or anything here - just needs the numbers adjusted.

FALSE. If anything, Hardened Ward needs to be BUFFED back to 100%. 50% is NOT enough in the Imperial City when you're fighting mobs that hit for full strength.

You're daft, its already a better defensive skill than what either tank class has in their armory.

Bramir

Firerock2 wrote: »

show previous quotes

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Baphomet wrote: »

This is ability is just too good, costs too little and lasts too long = i.e god mode.

This was one of the worste culprits to the balance in 1.6 and still is. It's embarrasing that this ability has not been properly balanced yet. It's not like we're talking bad coding, mechanical issues or anything here - just needs the numbers adjusted.

FALSE. If anything, Hardened Ward needs to be BUFFED back to 100%. 50% is NOT enough in the Imperial City when you're fighting mobs that hit for full strength.

You're daft, its already a better defensive skill than what either tank class has in their armory.

It is also the only defensive skill of any real worth from the sorcerer class, and not all sorcerers are running around in BIS gear with hundreds of CPs. The sorcerer class is apparently balanced around those toons, and the rest of us are shite out of luck.

Diamond_10

They cut shields strength, yet sorcs can still get a 100% shield bar.
Go figure.
Needs to be addressed

Bramir

Diamond_10 wrote: »

They cut shields strength, yet sorcs can still get a 100% shield bar.
Go figure.
Needs to be addressed

Only because ZOS stealth-nerfed sorcerer health down to 5k...

In all seriousness, without being able to crit, and with the PvP reduction, how is anyone achieving numbers like 10k for hardened ward? I think people are looking at old screenshots or just plain making *** up...

Firerock2

Bramir wrote: »

show previous quotes

Firerock2 wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Baphomet wrote: »

This is ability is just too good, costs too little and lasts too long = i.e god mode.

This was one of the worste culprits to the balance in 1.6 and still is. It's embarrasing that this ability has not been properly balanced yet. It's not like we're talking bad coding, mechanical issues or anything here - just needs the numbers adjusted.

FALSE. If anything, Hardened Ward needs to be BUFFED back to 100%. 50% is NOT enough in the Imperial City when you're fighting mobs that hit for full strength.

You're daft, its already a better defensive skill than what either tank class has in their armory.

It is also the only defensive skill of any real worth from the sorcerer class, and not all sorcerers are running around in BIS gear with hundreds of CPs. The sorcerer class is apparently balanced around those toons, and the rest of us are shite out of luck.

Wrong you also have lightning form and you guys can heal off of crits. Tell me what exactly a DK or Temp has besides their heals ( which are mediocre compared to HW) and their armor buff skill? Why should the sorcs get as many defensive skills as the classes who can't run away and are forced to fight?

VoiDGhOs7

Bramir wrote: »

show previous quotes

Diamond_10 wrote: »

They cut shields strength, yet sorcs can still get a 100% shield bar.
Go figure.
Needs to be addressed

Only because ZOS stealth-nerfed sorcerer health down to 5k...

In all seriousness, without being able to crit, and with the PvP reduction, how is anyone achieving numbers like 10k for hardened ward? I think people are looking at old screenshots or just plain making *** up...

Is it still possible to achieve 10k wards but only for players with a high amount of cp or using a pet build,as for players who are whining about sorc's being OP is just a L2P issue as always.
In carebear land my ward with 42k magicka is about 23k shield so stop comparing pve shields with pvp ones.

Tankqull

Diamond_10 wrote: »

They cut shields strength, yet sorcs can still get a 100% shield bar.
Go figure.
Needs to be addressed

as every class can go figure...

eventide03b14a_ESO

Baphomet wrote: »

This is ability is just too good, costs too little and lasts too long = i.e god mode.

This was one of the worste culprits to the balance in 1.6 and still is. It's embarrasing that this ability has not been properly balanced yet. It's not like we're talking bad coding, mechanical issues or anything here - just needs the numbers adjusted.

They did fix it, we have 50% reduction to all shield and the sheild breaker set. Don't you know that's ZOS' answer all problems? They use a sledgehammer when all they need a hammer.

eventide03b14a_ESO

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

It sounds like your having trouble doing damage. You'll be pleased to hear that hardened ward now has 2 counters. One specific counter in the form of a 5 piece bonus, and a more general counter in the form of high damage attacks such as wrecking blow, surprise attack, crystal frags, teleport strike, snipe, dark flare, vampires bane, dawnbreaker and more. You can also chain a heavy attack onto any of those skills for more burst damage. Of course hardened ward can just be re-cast but so can all of those high damage counters. It's your job as the opponent to stop the sorc from casting by using cc regularly. Fossilize is good cos you have to break out of the stun and then dodge-roll out of the root if you want to be able to face your opponent to target them, thus forcing the sorc to use more stamina. Of course if you can't be bothered to try any of that you could just ask zos to nerf it, what have you got to lose right?

Damn I can't decide whether to give this an "insightful" or an "awesome".

eventide03b14a_ESO

Firerock2 wrote: »

show previous quotes

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

I'd say L2P without hardened ward to all the worriers. It is too strong, it should simply cost much more and not last as long IMO, let it stay strong numbers wise, but make it cost what it's worth. And no, not every player in the game should have to run one set to counter one skill, that means there is a problem with that skill.

Given that most average sorcs will have a hardened ward of about 9-10k at the most it would seem a bit pointless reducing it's length down from 20 seconds, or whatever it is. The chances of the ward lasting 20 seconds when you're taking damage are non-existent. And why does it matter that the ward lasts 20 seconds outside of combat?

As to it's cost; I can tell you that with 47cp in magician and no cost-reduction glyphs mine costs 2355 magicka. My regen is 1600 so if I just spam hardened ward I'm going to run out of magicka fairly quickly in combat. How much more do you think it should cost and why?

I ask why because my 9.8k hardened ward can be broken in 2 hits by many skills, with overflow damage to spare. How many hits should it be able to take, and why?

I have been trying to live without it, to counter the counter that is shieldbreaker. I wear 2 pieces of heavy armour and use boundless storm and my spell resistance is 22k, physical resistance is 18k.

I still need to use hardened ward, although less than I did in 7 light. Why do I still need to use it? Because I don't have access to a powerful heal, streak was nerfed so I can only use it 3 times without being vunerable, I can't dodge-roll more than twice or block more than twice.

How do you suggest I learn to live without it? If I had access to the 2.3k ticks from vigor then I would use vigor instead. I'm already using 2 pieces of heavy armour, if I wore any more I would lose the 5 piece light armour bonus, and as a magicka dps that would be silly.

So I'm open to suggestions, but I don't think you know the class very well so forgive me if I find it hard to take you seriously.

Base cost of hardened ward is 3112 Magicka

Base cost of Breath of Life is 4070 Magicka

Base cost of Green Dragon Blood: 3830 Magicka

Sorcs also get passives that increase their regen and reduce cost of spells.

You see, I want to believe that you have resource management problems on your sorc but I'm not a complete idiot. Sorry

You can spam your ward far longer than tanks can spam their heals. Your ward also is larger than any burst heal a DK or Temp can get.

You're right. It is hard to counter sorcs when you're a terrible player.

Bramir

Firerock2 wrote: »

show previous quotes

Bramir wrote: »

Firerock2 wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Baphomet wrote: »

This is ability is just too good, costs too little and lasts too long = i.e god mode.

This was one of the worste culprits to the balance in 1.6 and still is. It's embarrasing that this ability has not been properly balanced yet. It's not like we're talking bad coding, mechanical issues or anything here - just needs the numbers adjusted.

FALSE. If anything, Hardened Ward needs to be BUFFED back to 100%. 50% is NOT enough in the Imperial City when you're fighting mobs that hit for full strength.

You're daft, its already a better defensive skill than what either tank class has in their armory.

It is also the only defensive skill of any real worth from the sorcerer class, and not all sorcerers are running around in BIS gear with hundreds of CPs. The sorcerer class is apparently balanced around those toons, and the rest of us are shite out of luck.

Wrong you also have lightning form and you guys can heal off of crits. Tell me what exactly a DK or Temp has besides their heals ( which are mediocre compared to HW) and their armor buff skill? Why should the sorcs get as many defensive skills as the classes who can't run away and are forced to fight?

Lightning form? Seriously? Why would you use that rather than unstoppable unless you are farming mobs? Maybe if the bonuses mitigated damage to our whimpy shields...

Surge heals are far from dependable, and require a target. And even if your first hit is a crit, it takes several seconds to get to that heal. I'd take a small heal that worked every time any day...heals that can't be depended on are pointless unless you are fighting scripts and/or measuring hps over the course of minutes rather than seconds.

At any rate, the only reason we would even need a different defensive skill is because the one we had has been nerfed through the ground.

Firerock2

Derra wrote: »

show previous quotes

Firerock2 wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

I'd say L2P without hardened ward to all the worriers. It is too strong, it should simply cost much more and not last as long IMO, let it stay strong numbers wise, but make it cost what it's worth. And no, not every player in the game should have to run one set to counter one skill, that means there is a problem with that skill.

Given that most average sorcs will have a hardened ward of about 9-10k at the most it would seem a bit pointless reducing it's length down from 20 seconds, or whatever it is. The chances of the ward lasting 20 seconds when you're taking damage are non-existent. And why does it matter that the ward lasts 20 seconds outside of combat?

As to it's cost; I can tell you that with 47cp in magician and no cost-reduction glyphs mine costs 2355 magicka. My regen is 1600 so if I just spam hardened ward I'm going to run out of magicka fairly quickly in combat. How much more do you think it should cost and why?

I ask why because my 9.8k hardened ward can be broken in 2 hits by many skills, with overflow damage to spare. How many hits should it be able to take, and why?

I have been trying to live without it, to counter the counter that is shieldbreaker. I wear 2 pieces of heavy armour and use boundless storm and my spell resistance is 22k, physical resistance is 18k.

I still need to use hardened ward, although less than I did in 7 light. Why do I still need to use it? Because I don't have access to a powerful heal, streak was nerfed so I can only use it 3 times without being vunerable, I can't dodge-roll more than twice or block more than twice.

How do you suggest I learn to live without it? If I had access to the 2.3k ticks from vigor then I would use vigor instead. I'm already using 2 pieces of heavy armour, if I wore any more I would lose the 5 piece light armour bonus, and as a magicka dps that would be silly.

So I'm open to suggestions, but I don't think you know the class very well so forgive me if I find it hard to take you seriously.

Base cost of hardened ward is 3112 Magicka

Base cost of Breath of Life is 4070 Magicka

Base cost of Green Dragon Blood: 3830 Magicka

Sorcs also get passives that increase their regen and reduce cost of spells.

You see, I want to believe that you have resource management problems on your sorc but I'm not a complete idiot. Sorry

You can spam your ward far longer than tanks can spam their heals. Your ward also is larger than any burst heal a DK or Temp can get.

Templars also get a cost reduction passive. Also they have a skill buffing their magica regeneration for 480 flat.
The other morph for breath of life (honor the dead) get a magica return if cast on a target below 70% health for 8s.
Breath of life is an AOE it heals three targets. Ward is self singletarget (+ pets).

I´ve seen breath of live crits on me for 10k in pvp. Templars get 30% increased heals on self with another mandatory skill they have. A 13k bol crit is higher than any ward considering the HP you get also have dmg mitigated by armor/resist even more so.

Everyone knows that dragonblood is sh*t and should be buffed in some way.

What´s your point exactly?

Templar's get a passive that reduce spell cost by 4%. Sorcs get passives that reduce spell cost by 5% and increase regen by 10%. You get a passive that increases regen. Templar's have to lose a skill slot for better resource management when you can do it passively ( keep in mind your spells also cost less).

Yeah BoL can get above 10k but that is if they spec high into Magicka and spell damage which sorcs are also better at because Sorcs get a passive that increases spell damage. You also mentioned that BoL can reach those numbers through a crit. Spells don't always crit and if a Templar doesn't get that 30% increase to healing then BoL would be far less than 10k heals.

You think Honor the Dead is a good morph? Please roll a Templar and use HtD in PvP, then you can watch as your Magicka is consumes but you get no health because the smart healing system targeted someone else. OH WAIT I know, I could just let my health fall into execute range so I am guaranteed the heal, that's a good idea right?

I won't even get into the fact that Hardened Ward protects from crits while Health doesn't.

If we want to use anecdotal evidence, well I have seen Hardened Wards that reach 13k. Maybe you aren't doing it right?

Firerock2

Bramir wrote: »

show previous quotes

Firerock2 wrote: »

Bramir wrote: »

Firerock2 wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Baphomet wrote: »

This is ability is just too good, costs too little and lasts too long = i.e god mode.

This was one of the worste culprits to the balance in 1.6 and still is. It's embarrasing that this ability has not been properly balanced yet. It's not like we're talking bad coding, mechanical issues or anything here - just needs the numbers adjusted.

FALSE. If anything, Hardened Ward needs to be BUFFED back to 100%. 50% is NOT enough in the Imperial City when you're fighting mobs that hit for full strength.

You're daft, its already a better defensive skill than what either tank class has in their armory.

It is also the only defensive skill of any real worth from the sorcerer class, and not all sorcerers are running around in BIS gear with hundreds of CPs. The sorcerer class is apparently balanced around those toons, and the rest of us are shite out of luck.

Wrong you also have lightning form and you guys can heal off of crits. Tell me what exactly a DK or Temp has besides their heals ( which are mediocre compared to HW) and their armor buff skill? Why should the sorcs get as many defensive skills as the classes who can't run away and are forced to fight?

Lightning form? Seriously? Why would you use that rather than unstoppable unless you are farming mobs? Maybe if the bonuses mitigated damage to our whimpy shields...

Surge heals are far from dependable, and require a target. And even if your first hit is a crit, it takes several seconds to get to that heal. I'd take a small heal that worked every time any day...heals that can't be depended on are pointless unless you are fighting scripts and/or measuring hps over the course of minutes rather than seconds.

At any rate, the only reason we would even need a different defensive skill is because the one we had has been nerfed through the ground.

Your skill has been nerfed? 50% reduction in shields? Remember the 50% reduction in healing too? Your shield is still the best defensive skill in this game ATM.

Firerock2

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

show previous quotes

Firerock2 wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

I'd say L2P without hardened ward to all the worriers. It is too strong, it should simply cost much more and not last as long IMO, let it stay strong numbers wise, but make it cost what it's worth. And no, not every player in the game should have to run one set to counter one skill, that means there is a problem with that skill.

Given that most average sorcs will have a hardened ward of about 9-10k at the most it would seem a bit pointless reducing it's length down from 20 seconds, or whatever it is. The chances of the ward lasting 20 seconds when you're taking damage are non-existent. And why does it matter that the ward lasts 20 seconds outside of combat?

As to it's cost; I can tell you that with 47cp in magician and no cost-reduction glyphs mine costs 2355 magicka. My regen is 1600 so if I just spam hardened ward I'm going to run out of magicka fairly quickly in combat. How much more do you think it should cost and why?

I ask why because my 9.8k hardened ward can be broken in 2 hits by many skills, with overflow damage to spare. How many hits should it be able to take, and why?

I have been trying to live without it, to counter the counter that is shieldbreaker. I wear 2 pieces of heavy armour and use boundless storm and my spell resistance is 22k, physical resistance is 18k.

I still need to use hardened ward, although less than I did in 7 light. Why do I still need to use it? Because I don't have access to a powerful heal, streak was nerfed so I can only use it 3 times without being vunerable, I can't dodge-roll more than twice or block more than twice.

How do you suggest I learn to live without it? If I had access to the 2.3k ticks from vigor then I would use vigor instead. I'm already using 2 pieces of heavy armour, if I wore any more I would lose the 5 piece light armour bonus, and as a magicka dps that would be silly.

So I'm open to suggestions, but I don't think you know the class very well so forgive me if I find it hard to take you seriously.

Base cost of hardened ward is 3112 Magicka

Base cost of Breath of Life is 4070 Magicka

Base cost of Green Dragon Blood: 3830 Magicka

Sorcs also get passives that increase their regen and reduce cost of spells.

You see, I want to believe that you have resource management problems on your sorc but I'm not a complete idiot. Sorry

You can spam your ward far longer than tanks can spam their heals. Your ward also is larger than any burst heal a DK or Temp can get.

I would like to know the source of your figures before accepting them as fact. Certain races available to all classes get cost reduction boons.

Tanks can mitigate a lot more damage than I can for a lot less stamina, so you would hope that their healing needs would be less than a dps.

I'm fairly sure the regen stat, mine being 1600, is how much of that resource you get back every 2 seconds while in combat (source: in-game tooltip). This means that I get 1600 magicka back every 2 seconds (or 800 every second). So it's easy to see how spamming a spell costing 2533 magicka once per second isn't sustainable.

I could get my regen up over 2k or spec more into cost reduction for sure, but all classes can do this. In fact it's easier for a stamina dps build to spec into regen than it is a magicka build, just because of how much easier it is to raise weapon damage, therefore meaning food buffs are less important for max stamina and drinks can be used. As for my ward being bigger than BoL, heals can crit and BoL does crit for over 9k, although I can't prove it to you so you don't have to believe me.

My source is ESO academy and the game itself. If you don't believe those numbers then go on PTS without any passives and look at the spell costs and be ready for a surprise.

I never said you could spam your ward indefinitely if you repeatedly press the skill button. I said you could sustain spamming your shields far longer than tanks can sustain spamming their heals.

As for mitigating damage you can just streak away and stun everyone or have a ball to protect you from projectiles.

BTW shields protect you from crit attacks while Heals do not.

BoL can crit for over 9k but that is IF it crits. Meanwhile I have seen Hardened Wards reach over 10kk but that is guaranteed because its not a crit. Temps also have to build themselves similarly to Magicka dps sorcs if they want high heals, the funny thing is that sorcs will always reach a higher spell damage and have an easier time managing their magicka because of their passives.

Wollust

STOP ASKING FOR NERFS.
YOU PEOPLE ARE RUINING THIS GAME.

sigh

BrassRazoo

Must be a troll thread.
I don't even use shields on my Sorc anymore because of Shieldbreaker AND the 50% reduction.
Basically my Sorc is a defensive mass CC spamming off Healer now.

BigTone

BrassRazoo wrote: »

Must be a troll thread.
I don't even use shields on my Sorc anymore because of Shieldbreaker AND the 50% reduction.
Basically my Sorc is a defensive mass CC spamming off Healer now.

Perhaps you should read the book "How to Sorc" by BigTone

BrassRazoo

BigTone wrote: »

show previous quotes

BrassRazoo wrote: »

Must be a troll thread.
I don't even use shields on my Sorc anymore because of Shieldbreaker AND the 50% reduction.
Basically my Sorc is a defensive mass CC spamming off Healer now.

Perhaps you should read the book "How to Sorc" by BigTone

Oh yeah, read that one, same as all the others. Returned it after chapter one, boring, sorry.

k2blader

So.. with Shield Breaker and big nerfs to all shields (not just class skill ones), heals, and BE.. some baddie (and yes, I mean that and don't say it often if at all) is still crying about sorcs?

I can only hope Zeni doesn't listen any longer to the idiocy.

Also at baddie(s):

L2P

Zlater

Baphomet wrote: »

I do appreciate the sorcerer's input there. Would be nice to see if they could actually play without an I-win-button.

No is the answer, you can't play a magicka sorc in Pvp without this ability. <That's a full stop

L2P xD

Darnathian

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

I believe a 9k ward is not equal to 9k more hp, or even a 9k heal. Wards take full, unmitigated damage whereas my health pool doesn't. Heals are applied to your health pool which takes less damage than a shield. So what a templar invests into their BoL can last longer than what a sorc invests into his ward. I'm not trying to say that wards do not act as health buffers, of course they do, but you can't say a 9k ward is op cos it's bigger than most heals, you have to factor in mitigation.

The op never answered the question in my original comment; how many hits should a damage shield be able to take in your opinion? At the moment it can take less than 2 of the bigger hits. My ward barely helps me survive against the best animation cancellers as those 2 hits can be done in less than a second. This is why there was such a huge 'l2p' train at the start of this thread.

You miss the point. It's not about your hardened ward being OP in itself. It's OP towards DKs and Templars. They have. I chance. They didn't fix any problem or address all the points brought up in 1.6. It should not scale of magicka or get rid of shield stacking. One or the other.

Zlater

Darnathian wrote: »

show previous quotes

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

I believe a 9k ward is not equal to 9k more hp, or even a 9k heal. Wards take full, unmitigated damage whereas my health pool doesn't. Heals are applied to your health pool which takes less damage than a shield. So what a templar invests into their BoL can last longer than what a sorc invests into his ward. I'm not trying to say that wards do not act as health buffers, of course they do, but you can't say a 9k ward is op cos it's bigger than most heals, you have to factor in mitigation.

The op never answered the question in my original comment; how many hits should a damage shield be able to take in your opinion? At the moment it can take less than 2 of the bigger hits. My ward barely helps me survive against the best animation cancellers as those 2 hits can be done in less than a second. This is why there was such a huge 'l2p' train at the start of this thread.

You miss the point. It's not about your hardened ward being OP in itself. It's OP towards DKs and Templars. They have. I chance. They didn't fix any problem or address all the points brought up in 1.6. It should not scale of magicka or get rid of shield stacking. One or the other.

They won't remove shield stacking, if you look through every skill and champion passive you'll notice it's too deeply ingrained into the game. Unless you can think of a way your 2k shield enchant won't accidental cancel your 30% health shield.

Sorcs can get super high max magicka due to things like + 8% max magicka bound Aegis. But remember that takes a huge sacrifice of 2-3 skill slots just for that one buff and 2% mit through armor or whatever -.- let's compare it to a Nb that can get it without even needing a dedicated skill.

DK's are in a similar place to sorcs atm, so lots of love there from me.

BigTone

BrassRazoo wrote: »

show previous quotes

BigTone wrote: »

BrassRazoo wrote: »

Must be a troll thread.
I don't even use shields on my Sorc anymore because of Shieldbreaker AND the 50% reduction.
Basically my Sorc is a defensive mass CC spamming off Healer now.

Perhaps you should read the book "How to Sorc" by BigTone

Oh yeah, read that one, same as all the others. Returned it after chapter one, boring, sorry.

Chapter 1 was titled "Never qq about being a Sorc" so obviously you didn't read it

FriedEggSandwich

Darnathian wrote: »

show previous quotes

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

I believe a 9k ward is not equal to 9k more hp, or even a 9k heal. Wards take full, unmitigated damage whereas my health pool doesn't. Heals are applied to your health pool which takes less damage than a shield. So what a templar invests into their BoL can last longer than what a sorc invests into his ward. I'm not trying to say that wards do not act as health buffers, of course they do, but you can't say a 9k ward is op cos it's bigger than most heals, you have to factor in mitigation.

The op never answered the question in my original comment; how many hits should a damage shield be able to take in your opinion? At the moment it can take less than 2 of the bigger hits. My ward barely helps me survive against the best animation cancellers as those 2 hits can be done in less than a second. This is why there was such a huge 'l2p' train at the start of this thread.

You miss the point. It's not about your hardened ward being OP in itself. It's OP towards DKs and Templars. They have. I chance. They didn't fix any problem or address all the points brought up in 1.6. It should not scale of magicka or get rid of shield stacking. One or the other.

I would be fine with the removal of shield stacking but the thread title starts off "fix hardened ward", implying it's broken. I wouldn't be happy with a hardened ward nerf which is what the op is after.

Erock25

Zlater wrote: »

show previous quotes

Darnathian wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

I believe a 9k ward is not equal to 9k more hp, or even a 9k heal. Wards take full, unmitigated damage whereas my health pool doesn't. Heals are applied to your health pool which takes less damage than a shield. So what a templar invests into their BoL can last longer than what a sorc invests into his ward. I'm not trying to say that wards do not act as health buffers, of course they do, but you can't say a 9k ward is op cos it's bigger than most heals, you have to factor in mitigation.

The op never answered the question in my original comment; how many hits should a damage shield be able to take in your opinion? At the moment it can take less than 2 of the bigger hits. My ward barely helps me survive against the best animation cancellers as those 2 hits can be done in less than a second. This is why there was such a huge 'l2p' train at the start of this thread.

You miss the point. It's not about your hardened ward being OP in itself. It's OP towards DKs and Templars. They have. I chance. They didn't fix any problem or address all the points brought up in 1.6. It should not scale of magicka or get rid of shield stacking. One or the other.

They won't remove shield stacking, if you look through every skill and champion passive you'll notice it's too deeply ingrained into the game. Unless you can think of a way your 2k shield enchant won't accidental cancel your 30% health shield.

Sorcs can get super high max magicka due to things like + 8% max magicka bound Aegis. But remember that takes a huge sacrifice of 2-3 skill slots just for that one buff and 2% mit through armor or whatever -.- let's compare it to a Nb that can get it without even needing a dedicated skill.

DK's are in a similar place to sorcs atm, so lots of love there from me.

Someone else brought this up a week or two ago but the best way to fix shields and end the whining once and for all is to introduce a major and minor shield buff. Hardened Ward, Annulment, Ferocious Leap, Barrier would all be majors. Weapon enchants, Shielded Assault, Brawler, Sun Shield (and morphs), Obsidian Shield (and morphs), and Bone Shield (and morphs) would all be minors. You can only have one Major and one Minor active at any time, but the individual skills still scale as they currently do. If this happens, Healing Ward needs to be changed to a direct self heal that is worth using.

ScarecrowBoat

Stop sorc shaming

Rayste

This is sadly a L2P issue OP. I run into players that have no trouble breaking my shields. Mostly NBs (very quick combos with ani canceling) and DKs (guy hit me for 17k with a heavy attack just last night.

There is a set that was specifically designed to go through shields.

Stop whining

eliisra

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

I believe a 9k ward is not equal to 9k more hp, or even a 9k heal. Wards take full, unmitigated damage whereas my health pool doesn't. Heals are applied to your health pool which takes less damage than a shield. So what a templar invests into their BoL can last longer than what a sorc invests into his ward. I'm not trying to say that wards do not act as health buffers, of course they do, but you can't say a 9k ward is op cos it's bigger than most heals, you have to factor in mitigation.

I would argue that a 9k Ward is more powerful than a 9k heal.

Not only because the Ward gives me crit immunity, but it's also proactive with duration, which allows me to play offensively in PvP. Gives breathing space. Being aggressive is how you win, not by spamming heals, because health is bungy jumping up and down.

Heals being reactive, narrows the window for playing aggressively and pressuring back, compared to stacked shields.

But I dont think Ward OP needs nerf. Not after PvP'ing on my sorc and meeting the new fotm Shield Breaker brigade. With Hardened Ward up you explode in seconds from machine-gun type light attacks, use Healing Ward you die even faster