Are people starting to give up on ZOS?

DaveTheMinion

GreySix wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

And yet another negativity filled post. Love this community so hard.

Also, I definitely would not buy Fallout IV upon release. Bethesda's games are always super glitchy upon release. I am waiting at least 6 months to get it.

Tried to get the PipBoy Edition, but those things sold out almost instantly, likely to goons who bought dozens of them on different accounts, so they could scalp folks on eBay.

I managed to get one, tried to get one for my son a few days later, Not going to happen any time soon, so looks like I am going to have to give my edition to him...... Like (naughty word) he earns more than me so this is compensation for that fact

NewBlacksmurf

Gidorick wrote: »

I honestly don't think the removal of the sub had ANYTHING to do with how many subs they had... I believe it was more about making the game accessible on the Xbox One.

But, as much as I lament the loss of what ESO was, there's no sense in focusing on that... We must move on.

Here's the thing tho....that may explain why there was reason to remove the sub in Xbox one but doesn't explain why the sub had to be removed on PC and PS4.

And I know ppl will comment saying that would be confusing but it wouldn't. Everything is seperate already so the logical move was to make a lesser cost to the sub on Xbox due to Xbox live and move forward.
This is a ZOS issue and as I've commented before, not a misstep but seemingly intentional because they knew the sub wasn't going to fly as it was on Xbox way prior to PC launch so that's no excuse or reason to blame any console

JD2013

I rather think that all of these armchair developers are killing the community. And also, those who hang around the forums who don't play anymore ... It's kind of like hanging around an ex gf's facebook page and commenting every once in a while.

Don't like the game? Move on. Like the game? Stay and play. It really is that simple. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, yes. Does not mean that everyone should say their opinions. Especially when they add nothing.

Mojmir

JD2013 wrote: »

I rather think that all of these armchair developers are killing the community. And also, those who hang around the forums who don't play anymore ... It's kind of like hanging around an ex gf's facebook page and commenting every once in a while.

Don't like the game? Move on. Like the game? Stay and play. It really is that simple. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, yes. Does not mean that everyone should say their opinions. Especially when they add nothing.

love the game, hate the...well I think weve established that

FuzzyDuck79

Change is progress, and if people don't discuss the negative points as well as the good, then progress is halved. I think ZOS should hire some of these people for their ideas.

Nergie4242

Thing is tend to view ZOS design decisions in a way which is kind of like if you had a friend who all of a sudden decided to strip naked in the street and start pooping. Horrified amazement.

You take a step back and look what theyve done:

(talking console here)

Allowing pc players to port onto console thus destroying economy and due to CP and semblance of fairness in pvp.
No chat box and the shameful lack of response on this issue which has been number one console concern since launch.
No damage numbers. See that big long list of bugs. Console players could not contribute to that. How do I know if something crits or not.
Scream immersion at every turn then have everyone running with their psn tags above their head. nothing says immersion like playing with noobkiller3759
Broken groupfinder.
Bugs and the slow fix times.
Announce we're getting rid of VR!!! Then add 2 more...
IC implementation.
Whoever thought having a character stand outside an instance with a little bubble over your head saying "play with me" (or something) and yet not being able to include information like lvl xx looking for group.
A live show that goes out of its way to ignore the questions asked in its own ask us questions thread.
Devs who ignore their own forums.
More bugs.

There is probably more that I cant think of off the top of my head.

So yes I've given up on ZOS they almost make EA look like caring philanthropists. I'll continue to watch on the off chance a miracle happens and they change their entire approach and also because there is a certain macabre fascination watching this car crash roll on.

Gidorick

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

I honestly don't think the removal of the sub had ANYTHING to do with how many subs they had... I believe it was more about making the game accessible on the Xbox One.

But, as much as I lament the loss of what ESO was, there's no sense in focusing on that... We must move on.

Here's the thing tho....that may explain why there was reason to remove the sub in Xbox one but doesn't explain why the sub had to be removed on PC and PS4.

And I know ppl will comment saying that would be confusing but it wouldn't. Everything is seperate already so the logical move was to make a lesser cost to the sub on Xbox due to Xbox live and move forward.
This is a ZOS issue and as I've commented before, not a misstep but seemingly intentional because they knew the sub wasn't going to fly as it was on Xbox way prior to PC launch so that's no excuse or reason to blame any console

Developing one game with two entirely different revenue models would be tedious, to say the least. I could also imagine the outcry from PC who would be required to pay a subscription and the outcry from consoles who were being subjected a cash shop. ESPECIALLY if the PS4 and the Xbox One had different revenue models. Grass greener and all that. It really would have been a nightmare for ZOS both in customer complaints and customer service.

As for ZOS making the xbox sub less due to the Live requirement... you do realize that ZOS doesn't get any of the money from the Live subscriptions, right? So you are saying ZOS should have just made less money because Xbox flat out refused to drop the Live sub? That's just silly.

Sony was willing to drop the PS+ requirement, MS wasn't willing to drop the Live requirement:
http://www.engadget.com/2014/01/28/the-elder-scrolls-online-wont-require-ps-plus-will-require-xbo/

MS is also notorious for not supporting cross-platform play, specifically with Playstation Consoles:
FFXIV: http://kotaku.com/final-fantasy-xiv-isnt-coming-to-xbox-because-of-a-sil-723669207
War Thunder: http://www.gamespot.com/articles/microsoft-won-t-allow-xbox-one-pc-cross-platform-play-says-war-thunder-dev/1100-6418587/

The two ways in which Microsoft has shaped ESO:

1. Refusal to drop Live subscription
   • lead to subscription being dropped
   • lead to cash shop being implemented
2. Refusal to allow cross platform play
   • lead to separate servers, and separate experiences, for all platforms

These are just my tin-foil hat musings and I know it's more complicated than this but this is pretty much how I see it.

FireCowCommando

JD2013 wrote: »

I rather think that all of these armchair developers are killing the community. And also, those who hang around the forums who don't play anymore ... It's kind of like hanging around an ex gf's facebook page and commenting every once in a while.

Don't like the game? Move on. Like the game? Stay and play. It really is that simple. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, yes. Does not mean that everyone should say their opinions. Especially when they add nothing.

The players who post in the forum long after they quit have often logged well over 2000 hours in the game, and have a good understanding of the game they are commenting on do not detract from the community.

I want you to imagine a professional boxer well past his prime, still involved in teaching new people, and discussing the state of the sport. Is this person adding also adding nothing?

I think we both know the answer to that one.

anitajoneb17_ESO

FireCowCommando wrote: »

I want you to imagine a professional boxer well past his prime, still involved in teaching new people, and discussing the state of the sport. Is this person adding also adding nothing?

Depends.
If that boxer comes to training fields to teach youngsters, that's fine. If they discuss rules and regulations and stuff with the federation, that's fine too. But if he comes to shout how he knows that the sport is hopelessly doomed, that the management sucks, that people are fools for practicing it and that the youngsters should better forget it altogether and find another sport, then they'd better leave.
And truth is, most former ESO players who join these forums seem to do it for the pure pleasure of bashing.

DovresMalven

JD2013 wrote: »

I rather think that all of these armchair developers are killing the community. And also, those who hang around the forums who don't play anymore ... It's kind of like hanging around an ex gf's facebook page and commenting every once in a while.

Don't like the game? Move on. Like the game? Stay and play. It really is that simple. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, yes. Does not mean that everyone should say their opinions. Especially when they add nothing.

If you love the game so much why aren't you playing it, instead of being bothered by the discontentment of others?

JD2013

DovresMalven wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

I rather think that all of these armchair developers are killing the community. And also, those who hang around the forums who don't play anymore ... It's kind of like hanging around an ex gf's facebook page and commenting every once in a while.

Don't like the game? Move on. Like the game? Stay and play. It really is that simple. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, yes. Does not mean that everyone should say their opinions. Especially when they add nothing.

If you love the game so much why aren't you playing it, instead of being bothered by the discontentment of others?

I play it every day.

I come here whilst I do work, because the forums and community used to be very helpful and fun to chat with.

Used to be.

firstdecan

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

josh5813 wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

josh5813 wrote: »

I'm just hoping ZOS will add a non-PvP map of the Imperial City someday so the players that don't like or just hate PvP can enjoy the new PvE content of the Imperial City without having to worry about getting killed by another player or group of players from a different alliance.

I know "Just team up with a large group of players that are doing runs and you'll be alright". Here's the thing and I'm speaking for myself, I want to explore the Imperial City, do the new missions, not do runs on one set course and having to always worry about other players killing me.

Also I enjoy teaming up with other players but when it's basically a requirement like how it feels in the Imperial City, to me, that's not fun.

If they do this, they better reduce the tel var multiplier to permanent 1x. I am sick of PvE'ers asking for all the rewards with no risk. If they die, they whine to ZOS and ZOS makes the content easier.

No Conflict. No Risk. No Skill. PvE.

I never said they should make it easier and I was actually going to say if they make a non_PvP map for the Imperial City makes the drops like for the stones less and make it where players on the PvP map get better rewards since there is more risks.

Wow I just had an amazing idea. Make one campaign with PvE only imperial city. But make that campaign gated access. MUAHAHAHAH Embrace the chaos. That would be the most fought over map of all time.

Gated access basically makes IC a PvE zone. In the current gated campaign (which no one is playing), it is possible, but very difficult, for all alliances to have access at the same time. It is more probable that no alliances have access at all. It's usually just the alliance dominating the map that has access.

I've spent some time in the gated campaign to check it out, it's completely dead. We were taking keeps with teams of 5 players. No one is interested in gated access accept for a handful of players who used to play DAOC. (I never did). We have the gated access, it's there, and the campaign is dead.

SC0TY999

To the OP, I think so especially when PvP is all about numbers win and with no dynamic campaign population caps in place is just dumb as ***.

PvP in this game is being destroyed by the poor decisions being made.

Small groups of well organised, highly skilled players are unable to stand against the zergs.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_RichLambert

I beg you, remove the AOE caps, buff Proxy Det do something!

Give the small groups a chance at killing these no brain steel tornado spamming zergs!

PvP is no fun anymore!

Siege weapon damage is once again a joke!

Even with the healing reduction in Cyro, I don't think you've applied this to Templars because they can heal through anything.

The zergs are running nothing but Steel Tornado spammers and Templars!

Eventually you will seal your own fate when the most populated faction EP has no one to fight in Cyrodiil anymore because no one will be there apart from EP.

This is what ESO PvP has become: this was only half the zerg the other half was on the other flag!




Which leads to this!




Give us some way to tackle these unskilled players, making there incorrect decisions in battle be there downfall!

firstdecan

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

FireCowCommando wrote: »

I want you to imagine a professional boxer well past his prime, still involved in teaching new people, and discussing the state of the sport. Is this person adding also adding nothing?

Depends.
If that boxer comes to training fields to teach youngsters, that's fine. If they discuss rules and regulations and stuff with the federation, that's fine too. But if he comes to shout how he knows that the sport is hopelessly doomed, that the management sucks, that people are fools for practicing it and that the youngsters should better forget it altogether and find another sport, then they'd better leave.
And truth is, most former ESO players who join these forums seem to do it for the pure pleasure of bashing.

If that boxer is of the opinion that boxing is a one way ticket to concussions and permanent brain damage, he would have a legitimate point. If the rules of engagement in that sport had taken a turn to the point where the boxers' safety was in greater danger (like saying gloves are optional), he would have a point.

The people complaining on these forums have a right to complain. It would be *nice* if the feedback was more constructive, and that's on the players. It would also be nice if the feedback was more structured and measurable, and that part is on ZoS. During beta weekends, ZoS would send out surveys to get a pulse on player feedback, and allowed that feedback to influence development. I haven't seen a survey since beta. That is ONE indicator that ZoS is not interested in "the community's" opinion, they don't bother asking for it anymore.

It would be easy enough to make a quick poll available in the character select screen, something players could ignore if they wanted or fill out of they chose. It would be a measurable feedback mechanism on hot button topics and design decisions they are facing. Instead, they've basically given up on the community (or at least appear to have done so).

Bringing this back around to the OP, I think many people have given up on ZoS. I have. It appears the feeling is mutual. I treat this game like I treated most of my ex-GFs: I'm not serious about it long term, but it's good enough for now. I'm just waiting for that better experience to come along.

RDMyers65b14_ESO

I didn't watch ESO Live at that time because I had work that I had to finish and thus, I was not at home. I did watch the show via YouTube yesterday morning.

anitajoneb17_ESO

firstdecan wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

FireCowCommando wrote: »

I want you to imagine a professional boxer well past his prime, still involved in teaching new people, and discussing the state of the sport. Is this person adding also adding nothing?

Depends.
If that boxer comes to training fields to teach youngsters, that's fine. If they discuss rules and regulations and stuff with the federation, that's fine too. But if he comes to shout how he knows that the sport is hopelessly doomed, that the management sucks, that people are fools for practicing it and that the youngsters should better forget it altogether and find another sport, then they'd better leave.
And truth is, most former ESO players who join these forums seem to do it for the pure pleasure of bashing.

If that boxer is of the opinion that boxing is a one way ticket to concussions and permanent brain damage, he would have a legitimate point. If the rules of engagement in that sport had taken a turn to the point where the boxers' safety was in greater danger (like saying gloves are optional), he would have a point.

The people complaining on these forums have a right to complain. It would be *nice* if the feedback was more constructive, and that's on the players. It would also be nice if the feedback was more structured and measurable, and that part is on ZoS. During beta weekends, ZoS would send out surveys to get a pulse on player feedback, and allowed that feedback to influence development. I haven't seen a survey since beta. That is ONE indicator that ZoS is not interested in "the community's" opinion, they don't bother asking for it anymore.

It would be easy enough to make a quick poll available in the character select screen, something players could ignore if they wanted or fill out of they chose. It would be a measurable feedback mechanism on hot button topics and design decisions they are facing. Instead, they've basically given up on the community (or at least appear to have done so).

Bringing this back around to the OP, I think many people have given up on ZoS. I have. It appears the feeling is mutual. I treat this game like I treated most of my ex-GFs: I'm not serious about it long term, but it's good enough for now. I'm just waiting for that better experience to come along.

I agree with most of your points, actually, and yes, whether a criticism is constructive or not doesn't depend on the status of the poster, if he still plays or not. However I'm still surprised by the hostility of (some) former players and why they bother posting here.
To carry on with the analogy with "girlfriends", I don't think you post negative comments on your ex's FB wall, you don't criticize her months later for NOT having been your dream girl, and, unless she's a criminal, you don't try to convince her current boyfriend to leave her. That's how many posts here from former players come across.

Casdha

Itoq wrote: »

Darlgon wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

People aren't giving up on ZOS, ZOS is giving up on this game.

What is missing from that list is creating a fun, re-playable experience people want to return to. Instead, "endgame" content is going to be stripmined, abandoned, then new DLC will replace it with a new grind. ZOS won't bother updating all of the old "endgame" content because they need people to pay for the new stuff. We can already see this happening with DSA and trials.

While it may seem unbelievable.. THIS I have to disagree with. i am currently playing EP starter area up to Davons Watch for the third time. Davons sometime since January, received a total revamp of the main story. It flows smoother, you actually dont have to constantly run back and forth and was actually fun.

Frankly, the Vet DSA and trials are PVE combat. IC was the PVP combat teams. So, any updates to them would come with Orcsinium.

The quests you speak of were new stuff - for consoles.

And there is no pvp combat team.

The early quests were redone several months before console, I tried to point them out several times. The flow was changed as well as some of the objective destinations and even additional steps to some of the side quests to make them more interesting. It has been long enough that folks that started playing this year may not know the difference.

Soulshine

Regarding the former player posting thing, nobody but ZoS can know who is and who isn't in that category. Players posting here can say anything about if they do or don't play anymore, even if it isn't true, so no one has any way of knowing except ZoS.

This same issue was brought up umpteen times on the LoTRO forums back when Sapience was wreaking havoc on every single poster he could find that he did not like. The level of hostility of the forum community at that time was so bad that it was like walking through a mine field and the only people during Sap's tenure who managed to survive unscathed either kept their mouths shut or simply didn't posts critiques at all. The place was a rabid fanboi mess of "everything is perfect" and no dissension was tolerated. Eventually, the rule was actually passed that if you were not the owner of "an active account" you could not post on the forums, and if fact you still cannot post today there unless you have I forget how many weeks of registered account on the forums in the first place.

I would not want things to get like that here. As others have said, former players are an important asset to this community and should not just be told to GTHO because we don't like what/how/why they say anything. Intelligent people should have the ability to read something an understand what is rubbish and angry bluster vs sound advice based in common experience of many other players.

@OP it seems pretty clear to me that since the ESO live show was a different one given Gina's absence and the lack of more meaty info, people chose not to watch. It has never had a big crowd anyway. And I would say given the release of IC that there are people simply busy playing rather than waiting about for info we have already been told we may not even get/see until December, if even then. All MMOs have ebb and flow of players so in the end this is just one more game experiencing that. That said, having been here since beta, definitely with @firstdecan 's view that communication with ZoS during betas was much better.

Poxheart

b92303008rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Complaints and rants are dying down compared to one or two weeks ago. And less than 800 people watched ESO Live yesterday while the number were easily over 1000 in the past few months. Is ESO way past the turning point that it can never recover again?

Starting to? I think most people already have. I did over a year ago.

Blackmoon777

Answering your question.
Yes, i give up.
This game had potential till they changed buisnes plan and introdused cash shop, and abandon 4-6 weeks free updates.
Also Kong and others are gone...and i liked him and his passion for ESO
yes i still care about ESO becouse it is Elder Scrolls game, but i am not playing anymore

now i am w8ing for fallout 4

Casdha

Do you think anyone at ZOS has given up?

These could be interpreted as either good signs or bad omens

ZOS Job Listings

Edit: on the same note, Shouldn't complaints dying down be considered a good thing, fewer things wrong with the game, everything is running smoother?

Krayor

It's times like these I wish they'd bring the "LOL button back.

Rikal

It's been a few pages, but earlier in this thread people were talking about Orsinium (the next DLC) and whether people will buy it. I think so. Orsinium has a different target audience. Assuming ZOS delivers what they said they would. As others have pointed out, features like inventory management, barbershop and housing will please a chunk of customers too.

So it's a matter of perspective. If PvP is your big (or only) thing, it could look pretty bleak right now. For people who cared little (or nothing) about IC to begin with, they will still buy Orsinium.

b92303008rwb17_ESO

Just saw the announcement that no pc maintenance next week. This is exactly why people are starting to give up on them. Each one more day this kind of game breaking bug stays, the game keeps bleeding. Personally I think they should be working 24/7 until it's completely fixed or they may have to worry about their jobs soon.

Darlgon

b92303008rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Just saw the announcement that no pc maintenance next week. This is exactly why people are starting to give up on them. Each one more day this kind of game breaking bug stays, the game keeps bleeding. Personally I think they should be working 24/7 until it's completely fixed or they may have to worry about their jobs soon.

At least its better than just restarting the servers and telling us they did "behind the scenes" maintenance.

Prof_Bawbag

I'll drop it once the first TW3 expansion hits and will get Forza 6 afterwards. Then there's FO4. Partly the reason I let my ESO+ lapse this month too. Whilst i have enjoyed the game, the lack of other games during the summer is probably the main reason I'm still playing it.

Prof_Bawbag

Gidorick wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

I honestly don't think the removal of the sub had ANYTHING to do with how many subs they had... I believe it was more about making the game accessible on the Xbox One.

But, as much as I lament the loss of what ESO was, there's no sense in focusing on that... We must move on.

Here's the thing tho....that may explain why there was reason to remove the sub in Xbox one but doesn't explain why the sub had to be removed on PC and PS4.

And I know ppl will comment saying that would be confusing but it wouldn't. Everything is seperate already so the logical move was to make a lesser cost to the sub on Xbox due to Xbox live and move forward.
This is a ZOS issue and as I've commented before, not a misstep but seemingly intentional because they knew the sub wasn't going to fly as it was on Xbox way prior to PC launch so that's no excuse or reason to blame any console

Developing one game with two entirely different revenue models would be tedious, to say the least. I could also imagine the outcry from PC who would be required to pay a subscription and the outcry from consoles who were being subjected a cash shop. ESPECIALLY if the PS4 and the Xbox One had different revenue models. Grass greener and all that. It really would have been a nightmare for ZOS both in customer complaints and customer service.

As for ZOS making the xbox sub less due to the Live requirement... you do realize that ZOS doesn't get any of the money from the Live subscriptions, right? So you are saying ZOS should have just made less money because Xbox flat out refused to drop the Live sub? That's just silly.

Sony was willing to drop the PS+ requirement, MS wasn't willing to drop the Live requirement:
http://www.engadget.com/2014/01/28/the-elder-scrolls-online-wont-require-ps-plus-will-require-xbo/

MS is also notorious for not supporting cross-platform play, specifically with Playstation Consoles:
FFXIV: http://kotaku.com/final-fantasy-xiv-isnt-coming-to-xbox-because-of-a-sil-723669207
War Thunder: http://www.gamespot.com/articles/microsoft-won-t-allow-xbox-one-pc-cross-platform-play-says-war-thunder-dev/1100-6418587/

The two ways in which Microsoft has shaped ESO:

1. Refusal to drop Live subscription
   • lead to subscription being dropped
   • lead to cash shop being implemented
2. Refusal to allow cross platform play
   • lead to separate servers, and separate experiences, for all platforms

These are just my tin-foil hat musings and I know it's more complicated than this but this is pretty much how I see it.

ZoS always had the option to just ignore the X1 (like we get told whenever we complain about crown store prices) if it forced their hand, which I don't think it did. The sub is also cheaper on the PC than it is on LIVE, so that kinda also makes that point redundant. Also, how ZoS deal with Sony is completely independent from their dealings with MS. If Sony really did want to drop the PSN paywall, they would have done so (no idea if they did, just your use of the word "was" means I'm not sure if they did or not in the end). Hiding behind MS reluctance to not allow it for LIVE doesn't change that fact.

Morimizo

With this update, yes, very concerned with the direction the game is going. Many seem to like the IC-type path, but this is not the droids. er. changes/additions to the game I was looking for.

Before the update and with Orsinium on the horizon, liked the state of the game. I wish there was a clear way to balance the PVE/PVP character skills separately. Would avoid a lot of consternation.

Kuroinu

Morimizo wrote: »

With this update, yes, very concerned with the direction the game is going. Many seem to like the IC-type path, but this is not the droids. er. changes/additions to the game I was looking for.

Before the update and with Orsinium on the horizon, liked the state of the game. I wish there was a clear way to balance the PVE/PVP character skills separately. Would avoid a lot of consternation.

Absolutely, I've seen many suggestions by players in the past and from myself on what we feel would be best for balancing the game. CP bonuses differing in strength depending on if the player was attacking a mob or another player and PvP/PvE having separate values on skills depending on what zone these skills are used in are just a couple of suggestions that we'd prefer over nerfs and caps across the board.

Like you already said. If they truly want to balance this game and please almost everyone, they should implement a system that detects whether a mob or a player is being targeted and adjust the values of skills and damage/mitigation bonuses depending on target.

As an example, the Sorcerers "Suppression Field" Ultimate explains that enemy players will be silenced rather than stunned when in the fields area of effect. This here is an example of how they should tweak and adjust all skills and bonuses depending on if the enemy target is a player or a mob. It's already a part of the game, they just need to expand on it.

tordr86b16_ESO