nightblade cloak is absolutely ridiculous

Alucardo

starkerealm wrote: »

Can we start by making the DK hallucinate every time they use Inhale?

I would be upset if this did not happen

Alucardo

Jar_Ek wrote: »

And also I have played in BWB as a night blade and can perma-stealth thanks to the battle spirit even when specced as a stamina build.. maybe the battle spirit should be less of a one size fits all ?

I have a stam build nb in BWB, and please tell me your secret. After a few consecutive cloaks I am out of magicka - I really have to use them strategically. And after a few cloaks, I'm screwed for magicka when it comes to a fight and need double take or fear. He just doesn't have the regen that requires infinite cloaking, like my magicka nb.

R0M2K

Silly is:

- Shields inmune to crits
- Shields inmune to dots
- Shield stacking



Hand

Master_Kas

bubbajones wrote: »

my self, being lvl VR15 and another higher lvl vet were attacking a lvl 17 nightblade and the fight just wouldn't end with no one killing anyone. the nightblade would just keep cloaking and remove all damage and it was just well....stupid.

bolt escape has been nerfed to all oblivion but the nightblade has an even better escape method and I think by all rights the cloak ability should scale up in mag usage with each cast otherwise the playfield is just not even

Cloak doesn't teleport you forward stunning nearby enemies.

Cloak got counters. Any aoe skill breaks it, radiant magelight (magelight morph) makes it useless. Detectionpots make it useless. If you have a nightblade friend / ally with you he can use piercing mark.

We got no class damage shield nor any class burst heal. Please learn to use one of the many counters you have at your disposal before screaming OP/nerf.

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO

R0M2K wrote: »

Silly is:

- Shields inmune to crits
- Shields inmune to dots
- Shield stacking



Hand

Shield never were imune to dots and now they aren't immune to crits either.

Actually right now low power shields can be a liability since overflow damage when a shield breaks is not mitigated by armor or spell resist.

Master_Kas

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

R0M2K wrote: »

Silly is:

- Shields inmune to crits
- Shields inmune to dots
- Shield stacking



Hand

Shield never were imune to dots and now they aren't immune to crits either.

Actually right now low power shields can be a liability since overflow damage when a shield breaks is not mitigated by armor or spell resist.

Shields are immune to critical hits. Get your facts straight. ZOS never went through with it.

Poison injection dot for example doesn't affect shields, just the initial damage (and probably other dot's who doesn't work)

The overflow damage was here in 1.6, and then it was way more risky thanks to the fast TTK. Right now with the slow TTK it's not that big of an issue as it was in 1.6.

#Rekt

Sharee

Jar_Ek wrote: »

TBH the OP part of cloak is not in PvP, it's in the ability to traverse ICs tight packed mob-full streets and sewers without having to ever engage. Which means that when a fight in the pve side of ic goes wrong, a nb can simply cloak up and stay cloaked until all aggro is dropped.

Cloaking does not drop aggro.

willymchilybily

@bubbajones
The skill doesn't last long, and does no damage. I don't see how it can be OP. Maybe try a NB out probably take less than a day to get one up to Level 17. And then you can give your opinion from an informed perspective, and realise you were just out classed/skilled

Ch4mpTW

willymchilybily wrote: »

@bubbajones
The skill doesn't last long, and does no damage. I don't see how it can be OP. Maybe try a NB out probably take less than a day to get one up to Level 17. And then you can give your opinion from an informed perspective, and realise you were just out classed/skilled

It's ironic that you say this, as I made a Nightblade for this reason. I got tired of feeling as though Nightblades were overpowered, and seeing how overpowered a few of my acquaintances were whilst using Nightblades. Someone on the forums suggested that I make a stamina-based Nightblade, and see for myself just how they are. And I can honestly say that Nightblades are by far the most versatile, and overall superior class in the game for PVE and PVP. Keep in mind, I also have a VR14 Sorcerer (my primary), and a Level 30 Dragonknight. And again, I can say from having the point-of-view/perspective of 2 other classes that the Nightblade outshines them both. In terms of both the Imperial City update patch(s), and non-IC (console). So no, my statement does not come from bias. But from actual experiences.

On a side note, I really think people on this forum have a thing for not exactly telling things how it is, just to in a sense avoid certain classes and skills from being readjusted or reworked. So they'll claim and try to say something isn't as strong as it is, or tell others to "L2P" when in fact some things do in fact need to be glanced it.

I've always said it, and I'll continue to say, "What happens to your skills with a class, when certain things which were once overpowered get taken from you? How good are you then?" For me? I'm fine. Even after the Sorcerer's nerfs, and the Shield Breaker set (which I personally believe to be for once overpowered). I can still play around it, and get more than enough kills with my Sorcerer. BUT! I definitely feel it (the Shield Breaker set) needs to be looked at again by ZOS, and adjusted.

ObsidianMichi

I wish people would spend less time complaining about Nightblades and spend more time putting together builds to counter them. As many people have said, there actually are counters to this ability. A lot of them. If you're choosing not to run those abilities for whatever reason, then it's hardly their fault or the ability's fault.

Also battle leveling can make lowbies dangerous, especially if they know how to play their class.

The best advice is always going to be: make a nightblade, spend time with the abilities, learn what they do, learn to play the class, then use that knowledge to develop counters or strategies for dealing with them in the PvP build for another class or your preferred class. If you know their limitations and capitalize on those, then they'll be easier to defeat.

Ch4mpTW

ObsidianMichi wrote: »

I wish people would spend less time complaining about Nightblades and spend more time putting together builds to counter them. As many people have said, there actually are counters to this ability. A lot of them. If you're choosing not to run those abilities for whatever reason, then it's hardly their fault or the ability's fault.

Also battle leveling can make lowbies dangerous, especially if they know how to play their class.

The best advice is always going to be: make a nightblade, spend time with the abilities, learn what they do, learn to play the class, then use that knowledge to develop counters or strategies for dealing with them in the PvP build for another class or your preferred class. If you know their limitations and capitalize on those, then they'll be easier to defeat.

Lol, you're a Nightblade. Aren't you? And I'm going to go on ahead and assume that you're a Nightblade who not only PVP's, but is either your primary or secondary character. Am I right, or am I wrong? And I'm ALSO going to assume you use Cloak. And don't want Cloak adjusted, and or reevaluated. Am I right, or am I wrong? Please be honest.

leepalmer95

I love the way everyone defence for nb's on this forum is 'shield stacking sorc' , not the fact that sorc only have 1 physical shield xD

Forumer-in-Prison

Only Terribads die from cloaked attacks.

There I said it.

bubbajones wrote: »

my self, being lvl VR15 and another higher lvl vet were attacking a lvl 17 nightblade and the fight just wouldn't end with no one killing anyone. the nightblade would just keep cloaking and remove all damage and it was just well....stupid.

bolt escape has been nerfed to all oblivion but the nightblade has an even better escape method and I think by all rights the cloak ability should scale up in mag usage with each cast otherwise the playfield is just not even

No Detect pot?

No AOE Skill on any bar?

No Caltrops, Shards, or any ground target attack?

No Damage shield?

No Self Heal?

You don't know how to CC break when hit from stealth?


...



Yup, it's the NB Cloak's fault

Nightenhowl

Just play as a NB learn its weaknesses and strengths, enough with the nerf cries.

willymchilybily

leepalmer95 wrote: »

I love the way everyone defence for nb's on this forum is 'shield stacking sorc' , not the fact that sorc only have 1 physical shield xD

i didnt know it needed defending? it is a 2.5 second skill that removes 2 dots. (no more than this) and doesn't directly put you in stealth you have to crouch and between invisibility ending and stealth engaging there is a window where you are not stealthed. and it has specific counters, not many other class abilities have been given specific counters available on all other classes..

and when invisibile or stealthed you move slowly unless vamp or using night silence, so to use the class skill effectively you have to gimp your self in other ways, or use double take wasting more magicka. And most people complain about stamina NB that i see. Probably because cloaking before surprise attack is powerful synergy. but that is an effect of the surprise attack not the cloak. You cant spam fear/cloak/double take as a stamina user.

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

willymchilybily wrote: »

@bubbajones
The skill doesn't last long, and does no damage. I don't see how it can be OP. Maybe try a NB out probably take less than a day to get one up to Level 17. And then you can give your opinion from an informed perspective, and realise you were just out classed/skilled

It's ironic that you say this, as I made a Nightblade for this reason. I got tired of feeling as though Nightblades were overpowered, and seeing how overpowered a few of my acquaintances were whilst using Nightblades. Someone on the forums suggested that I make a stamina-based Nightblade, and see for myself just how they are. And I can honestly say that Nightblades are by far the most versatile, and overall superior class in the game for PVE and PVP.

Keep in mind, I also have a VR14 Sorcerer (my primary), and a Level 30 Dragonknight. And again, I can say from having the point-of-view/perspective of 2 other classes that the Nightblade outshines them both. In terms of both the Imperial City update patch(s), and non-IC (console). So no, my statement does not come from bias. But from actual experiences.

On a side note, I really think people on this forum have a thing for not exactly telling things how it is, just to in a sense avoid certain classes and skills from being readjusted or reworked. So they'll claim and try to say something isn't as strong as it is, or tell others to "L2P" when in fact some things do in fact need to be glanced it.

I've always said it, and I'll continue to say, "What happens to your skills with a class, when certain things which were once overpowered get taken from you? How good are you then?" For me? I'm fine. Even after the Sorcerer's nerfs, and the Shield Breaker set (which I personally believe to be for once overpowered). I can still play around it, and get more than enough kills with my Sorcerer. BUT! I definitely feel it (the Shield Breaker set) needs to be looked at again by ZOS, and adjusted

.

@Ch4mpTW you raise no points referring to the topic, how is cloak OP? and if a target is CC immune some world boss for example the NB finds it more difficult than any class I've played. it relies on cc and positioning especially stamina NB with no heals till vigor, the 20% dodge isnt enough and it has no other defences except dodge roll which is Nerfed. People state detect pots and so on but you can really cause 90% of nightblades trouble with just caltrops and immovable. if you are CC immune for 8 seconds the NB really is not very scary at all. cloak or no cloak.


TL;DR Cloak is the only escape that needs other abilities to back it up and can be countered. And offensively it is not all that like people think imo

ObsidianMichi

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Lol, you're a Nightblade. Aren't you? And I'm going to go on ahead and assume that you're a Nightblade who not only PVP's, but is either your primary or secondary character. Am I right, or am I wrong? And I'm ALSO going to assume you use Cloak. And don't want Cloak adjusted, and or reevaluated. Am I right, or am I wrong? Please be honest.

You're actually wrong. I have a real preference for doing things I shouldn't. My PvP main is a split build heavy armor Sorc that I'm still working out the kinks on. Even then, I take wierder and lesser seen abilities like Encase and Clanfear into PvP. Clanfear can sometimes sniff out the NBs if they're cloaked and chases them (but not if they're stealthed). It might be a bug. It'll also find the BE Sorcs if they didn't get far enough away and forgot to stealth. Besides, it's hilarious if the first damage burst doesn't work. Some NBs/PvPers just stand there for a second, slightly confused.

My second character that has seen some PvP action is a split build NB tank that doesn't use Cloak except when I'm trying to run the PvE content or get Skyshards (so genuinely trying to avoid other players) and they primarily run a Siphon build. (Cripple, Sap Essence, etc.) And they're primarily spec'd for PvE tanking, with the exception of right now because I'm trying to raise medium armor so I can make the most of my extras when I go back to heavy. The character I want to PvP with for my main is a LA DK or a Stamina Templar, but I'm still learning the ins and outs of both classes. I enjoy the NB for what it does, but stealthing and sneaking is not my preferred way to play nor am I very good at it. I lack patience and I have a terrible habit of not retreating when I should, which results in some unfortunate deaths. Plus, for all it's chances of landing me somewhere unpleasant, I actually prefer Magnum Shot for a close quarters escape rather than Cloak. I mean, why bother to go invisible when I can escape and a snare to my enemy instead? Besides, there are other bow abilities that can be used to greater effect once I'm out of range. (This is also why I like the Templar + Bow, so much wonderful range. It's much more fun to play.) Cripple is also fun for the psychological effects, the super slow BE is funny. My personal NB preferences trend toward the mesmer abilities, stun locks, and battlefield control rather than outright damage. Also Hidden Blade/Flying Blade might take the place of Surprise Attack for the Major Brutality + 40% Movement Speed debuff.

If I use Cloak in PvP it's usually because I'm trying to avoid people on Thornblade. It's never worked for me as a flee skill though because it doesn't last long enough. NBs are squishy and Cloak costs a fair amount if you're running a stamina build, especially if you want to use other powers that are just as useful like Fear, Mark Target, Cripple, and Sap Essence that also don't scale off of stamina. I have to make choices. Besides, I'm not stacking Concealed Weapon with Night's Silence or Night Stalkers Footsteps to make a hasty exit more accessible. (They nerfed that again, anyway.) My build doesn't get that much from Cloak and my outgoing damage is very low tier for a burst DPS NB anyway. I don't kill people quickly, I live through their bursts long enough to grind them down and stab them in the face.

I have, however, spent a lot of time learning about NBs and playing them. I enjoy tanking with them. The high risk/high rewards of facetaking two mobs is really fun, plus dodge tanking. Dodge tanks. I soloed the first half of Malabal Tor's dungeon trying to figure out that build. It was super frustrating, but also a good time. Just like I enjoy tanking on a Sorc without primarily using pets (Clanfear is a nice heal if you have high health though). It's not optimal, but it's the way I play. Then again, I put my builds together mostly by trial and error. And I have made several NBs of varying builds for theory crafting and experimentation. I have characters across the board that have made use of all the classes for this reason and I trend toward using the abilities higher up the skill trees.

I have the most trouble finding an enjoyable playstyle with a DK which is primarily why I want to find a good PvP rhythm for them. Besides, I really enjoy theory crafting without the number crunching to see what feels interesting/is enjoyable for me to play.

So... no. I do smell the judgement though. More personal knowledge born from testing the game mechanics is not a bad thing, you know. Looking at the powers is actually helpful for developing counters to them. PvP has a dynamic of rock, paper, scissors. People have already stated the multitude of ways for dealing with NBs. AOE. Roots. Snares. Mage Light. Dect pots. Forcing them to CC break. Trap them. Bring a gap closer. Waste their resources. Also, get behind them. They take more damage that way. Besides, fair's fair, it's what they're trying to do to you.

The more you know.

Mashille

AOE ?

Detect Potions ?

Magelight ?

These threads just won't stop coming...

Jar_Ek

@Alucardo I use drinks to up my regeneration and because I am talking pve, cloak is only needed once per 4secs.

@Sharee Correct cloak on its own doesn't drop aggro... distance does though and perma-cloaking past other mobs to get to a safe distance is entirely possible. Hell I have traversed the entire sewer network without ever dropping out of stealth when I was exploring... seems a little too good for that purpose... And really that's the issue in ic. Small spaces, lots of mobs and lots of hidey holes - which means lots of ways for cloaked nbs to escape. Cloak in and of itself is not really the issue.

Sharee

Jar_Ek wrote: »

@Alucardo I use drinks to up my regeneration and because I am talking pve, cloak is only needed once per 4secs.

@Sharee Correct cloak on its own doesn't drop aggro... distance does though and perma-cloaking past other mobs to get to a safe distance is entirely possible. Hell I have traversed the entire sewer network without ever dropping out of stealth when I was exploring... seems a little too good for that purpose... And really that's the issue in ic. Small spaces, lots of mobs and lots of hidey holes - which means lots of ways for cloaked nbs to escape. Cloak in and of itself is not really the issue.

I can traverse the whole network without ever dropping out of stealth on a dragonknight as well. It just takes a bit of timing to get past tight spots. But that would mean i am leaving lots of telvar stones uncollected. That's not an advantage, that's a waste.

As for dropping aggro through distance - you can just run through other mob packs without any cloaking. They take a second or two to aggro, and by the time they do, you are already out of range. They just trail after you harmlessly for a while before being tethered back to their room.

starkerealm

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

ObsidianMichi wrote: »

I wish people would spend less time complaining about Nightblades and spend more time putting together builds to counter them. As many people have said, there actually are counters to this ability. A lot of them. If you're choosing not to run those abilities for whatever reason, then it's hardly their fault or the ability's fault.

Also battle leveling can make lowbies dangerous, especially if they know how to play their class.

The best advice is always going to be: make a nightblade, spend time with the abilities, learn what they do, learn to play the class, then use that knowledge to develop counters or strategies for dealing with them in the PvP build for another class or your preferred class. If you know their limitations and capitalize on those, then they'll be easier to defeat.

Lol, you're a Nightblade. Aren't you? And I'm going to go on ahead and assume that you're a Nightblade who not only PVP's, but is either your primary or secondary character. Am I right, or am I wrong? And I'm ALSO going to assume you use Cloak. And don't want Cloak adjusted, and or reevaluated. Am I right, or am I wrong? Please be honest.

You're actually wrong on both counts. I've seen their main, it's a heavy armor sorc build that uses a heavy stormcalling loadout.

But, hey, I'm a Nightblade. I go into PvP with two of them, have four total. And, here's the thing I can tell you, "I know far more about how to deal with enemy nightblades than you do." You know why? Because I've played the class to vet twice, used nearly every power (including morphs) on it's skill lines, and I know how they do, and do not work.

When someone tells you, "hey, play the class, then maybe you'll learn how it works," that's not because they want you to go away, it's because you honestly need to learn how to play. Sitting there and saying, "Nightblades are unbeatable" only tells me you don't understand the class at all or how to kill one.

Cloak is not an instant I win button. If you want to make it work you need to commit a fair amount of bar space and a large chunk of your build into turning it into something useful. Which, you'd know if you'd ever played a Nightblade. But, you haven't, so you don't, so I'm telling you, you need more than cloak to do anything useful with that power beyond purging DoTs.

You want to kill someone who's cloaked? Use Acid Spray. Which, again, you'd probably know if you'd played the class, even just in PvE, and learned the limitations of Cloak.

niccolo91

I rarely have a problem bursting down a nightblade. Sorcerers with shield? Not happening and watch out for the overload light attack that hit for 6k lol Stamblades are pretty watered down as it is, the only class that has no sustain and excels with burst damage just had an update which made fights last longer and overall damage lowered how much more can they screw a NB. Maybe we all should run sorcs.

Tldr: L2P

starkerealm

niccolo91 wrote: »

Tldr: L2P

On one hand, it was one paragraph! On the other hand, I've got to consider the person you were talking to. Well played, sir.

starkerealm

Alucardo wrote: »

Let's just keep nerfing every classes primary ability until there is nothing left, shall we?

Activating any power in the Aedric Skill line now requires the Templar's player to belt out, "hail sweet baby RNGesus!" Failing to do so into the microphone at full volume causes the ability to cancel.

BuggeX

The only thing i dont like about cloak, its reset the aggro from adds in IC.

You fight vs a NB, it doesnt og well for the NB, pull some Adds or even the horrors, cloak and you die cause of adds...

Jahosefat

lol I love how all the NB say "No more nerfs, we need to start buffing things!" as soon as almost every other mitigation tool in the game was nerfed hard (block, roll dodge, streak, shields, healing...). Almost everything except cloak, which is now the strongest get-away skill in the game.

Enjoy it while it lasts NB Your turn next.

Gilvoth

Malpherian wrote: »

As a nightblade, I can say that the cloak is actually under powered. You simply aren't useing the 50 million skills in the game to counter it.

IE - Equip magelight - Problem solved.
-Stun / CC night blade
- Kill nightblade.

Nightblade is one of the weakest classes in the game, yea we have good burst DPS and escape skills, because were so squishy and easy to kill it's pathetic.

If 2 of you were not able to kill a night-blade of close to the same level and gear, it's not the night blade, it's you, your gear, and your skills.

perfectly said, all truth.

killingspreeb16_ESO

Jahosefat wrote: »

lol I love how all the NB say "No more nerfs, we need to start buffing things!" as soon as almost every other mitigation tool in the game was nerfed hard (block, roll dodge, streak, shields, healing...). Almost everything except cloak, which is now the strongest get-away skill in the game.

Enjoy it while it lasts NB Your turn next.

because NB don't rely on roll dodge/block right?as stamina NB i can cloak not more than 2-3 time in a row at full magika,and if you read the topic intead of complaining "LOL NB BEST CLASS NERF PLEASE!1!11" you can learn how to counter it...

the only thing they can do is buff a bit flare/magelight but im sure you will complaining anyways since you don't want to use those counter because random reason.

im sure youre a sorc so pointing NB since 1.6 is the 1 rule of the Sorc forum.

starkerealm

Jahosefat wrote: »

lol I love how all the NB say "No more nerfs, we need to start buffing things!" as soon as almost every other mitigation tool in the game was nerfed hard (block, roll dodge, streak, shields, healing...). Almost everything except cloak, which is now the strongest get-away skill in the game.

Enjoy it while it lasts NB Your turn next.

Yeah... so, about that... cloak isn't mitigation. No, it's not. It doesn't reduce incoming damage. It doesn't avoid incoming damage. It does confuse players who don't understand how to play the game. But, that's not really mitigation, more culling.

CP5

starkerealm wrote: »

Jahosefat wrote: »

lol I love how all the NB say "No more nerfs, we need to start buffing things!" as soon as almost every other mitigation tool in the game was nerfed hard (block, roll dodge, streak, shields, healing...). Almost everything except cloak, which is now the strongest get-away skill in the game.

Enjoy it while it lasts NB Your turn next.

Yeah... so, about that... cloak isn't mitigation. No, it's not. It doesn't reduce incoming damage. It doesn't avoid incoming damage. It does confuse players who don't understand how to play the game. But, that's not really mitigation, more culling.

Forcing up to 4 incoming projectiles miss, plus being immune to single target skills unless the invisibility is broken, plus the passive when you use any shadow magic skill you get the armor buff.

Lava_Croft

People like OP are the reason why the game's combat is so ridiculously boring right now.