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Is there a way to *NOT* accumulate Tel Var stones?
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wraith808✭✭✭✭Merlin13KAGL wrote: »Preface: I jumped in Cyrodiil early on, have no issue with skilled PvP (24 man blob spamming a button isn't "skill."), and can handle myself just fine, solo and in group.
With that out of the way, here we go:
@wraith808, took me a sec. (It's a link, for those that also initially missed it.)
Ahem.Merlin13KAGL wrote: »
Ah, the days of oblivion when you could just pull something from your inventory and drop it on the ground to despawn.Emma_Eunjung wrote: »What does collecting them matter if you don't care about using them? Just ignore them. People will kill you no matter how many TV stones you have.
0 or 1000... You're still going to die the same. If you ignore having them, there's no hassle.
I don't have a problem with getting killed, because it's just a minor inconvenience due to the proximity of respawn points. What I detest is the feeling that some ganker profited by my death and is happily counting my loot while I try to figure out what the heck just happened!
There is still plenty to do in the Imperial City that doesn't revolve around Tel Var stones. I would like a chance to enjoy that content without feeling like a chump.
I see what you're going for here, and I understand it. They should have to be looted, same as any other gear.
You'd then have the option to simply not pick them up.
There should be loss, but you should have to loot it. Whether the above method or an alternative. The gankers should have to come out of the hidey hole to collect their winnings. Drop someone in a 20-man? Count on wading in to collect your loot, killing the other 19, die trying, or forfeit your winnings.
I realize there are counters to stealth, but nothing should auto-credit anything other than AP. Come and actually get it.
@Darlgon only for the first kill, not for repeat kills within a certain timeframe. After the insta-respawn ("Release"), there are no more stones nor AP to be had from killing the same person for a period of time, per the patch notes. It's directly counter to the one doing the killing, however, as they are the only ones that stand to lose anything at that point.
Essentially, you can respawn and return to fight 100 times without real consequence after the first death, full stats, and only a little armor damage.
It's also a bad mechanic (insta rez). It gives you a chance to restore your stones (part of them, anyway) and is nothing more than a thorn in the live person's side. (We had someone come back no less than 5 times last night, insistent on something. He died no less than five times.)
@zornyan , these don't exist anymore. Read the patch notes, please find a clue.Ganking is a perfectly acceptable form of combat, honourable? Where's the honour in 40k shield stacking sorcerers that can tank forever in robes? Or someone spamming a ranged skill?The thing is, this content is specifically designed to merge PvP and PvE content, with risks and rewards for each.
@Recremen , @Rodvic Well stated, and very true.
It is a PvE/PvP hybrid zone, which means it has all the dangers of a PvP zone. If you don't want to get killed by players, don't go there.WhiskeyRiver.AZub17_ESO wrote: »Again,to someone who doesnt pay attention to the Devs,..it is NOT a PvP zone.IT IS FOR BOTH PvPers AND Pvers.OK? Can you wrap your mind around this concept?
@Dru1076 , I actually think it's one of the few things they gotten pretty darn close to right for quite some time.Why do you guys care so much if someone doesn't want in on this Game of Stones? I cant believe some of the posts in here.
In all honesty, if IC is supposed to be the place that merges PVE and PVP, it's not very well thought out at all. There is nothing that most PVE players will find attractive about becoming gank bait. The mindset of strict PVE players and PVP players is so completely different I don't know that any game will ever achieve making both camps happy. And I fear in the attempt we shall end up with a game that pleases nobody.
The part both sides are missing is that you don't want people to not go there - the idea behind it is to draw in both crowds to a little of the "other side." "Don't go there" shouldn't be the extreme option of choice.
The problem lays in those that didn't go to Cyro early and have had less than desirable experiences there, long before Tel Var was ever a "thing." (I understand the argument early that they had the option to go and learn. Doesn't matter why they did not, the point is, they did not but are doing so now.)
You want people to want the new experience. It provides a full population, it's provides a resource (people, challenge, and of course, stones.)
There needs to be a medium of some sort for those that are not as well versed in PvP. I still like the idea of buffs / limited immunity (limited is the key word here) for those of low Alliance Rank.
New PvE'ers getting their first taste of Cyrodiil via IC are probably not going to leave with a good taste in their mouth, they're just going to leave.
You want them to come back. You want them to become more proficient.
You want challenging PvP, right?
Ganking for ganking purposes has always been a thing, @Selique, is correct in this.vaagventje17eb17_ESO wrote: »Emma_Eunjung wrote: »This is pettiness in it's purest form.
"I don't care about Tel Var Stones at all and they're going to try and kill me anyway, but I'd rather they didn't gain any from my dead because screw them".
LOL, am I "petty" because I remove the faceplate to my car stereo when I park my car in a bad neighborhood? Am I a bad sport for denying the thieves their hard-earned loot?
The subtle difference being that you don't want or care about those Tel Var Stones, and therefore have no reason to not want them to have them instead.
A more adequate analogy would be you complaining that someone ate your ration of chips when you don't even like them and weren't going to eat them anyway. Hell, it's even more ridiculous, because you are willing to not gaining them at all just to deny other people the satisfaction of having them.
It's terribly horribly PETTY and I don't undestand how you can't realize it. What are you, 8 years old?
lets just pick this one out, but goes for half here, the problem is not the stones, or who actualy gets them, the problem is the behavior this ecourages, running around in a big blob with 30 people detroying everything in your patch have never been more rewarding. instead of making people split up, and have more pvp like battles, its even more trains then before. or gankers. and oke gankers 1v1 is gonna take long with this damage reduces, but if you got 30 people spamming aoe(the new insta deto x30 much fun) there is not much holding you back.
It doesn't encourage anything. Ganking happens with or without Tel var stones. As it has always been in every game with PvP ever.
People get all the satisfaction they need from the cries of those they defeat. Its plain and simple. You really want to stop this behavior? Then pull out of PvP all together. Even then the gankers will just turn on each other. So, this problem will never go away as long as there are players who enjoy that style of gameplay. Just like PvE will never go away.
You have to evolve.
It is a hybrid situation, a very cool and dangerous one, at the moment.
I'd like to see an adjustment to the mechanic where the greater the odds, the lower the number of stones you lose if you die. It would, for lack of a better pun, "Kill two birds with one stone."
There is no "skill" in zerging 20:1 - there should be less reward from it. (I realize the stones are divided 20 ways, but I'm talking in terms of the original loss, then divided 20 ways.)
There is (potentially) tremendous skill in killing when then odds are 1:20. This should reap the most benefit. 1v1, 10v10, 24v24 etc should be somewhere in between.
Consider it an "underdog" telvar gain/loss bonus.
It would give even less incentive to zerg vs smaller numbers. It would help promote effective group play and would be something in between what it is now and the opposing extreme the OP offers up.
There would be incentive to keep coming back, to get better, and to experience every aspect of the game.
Presently, PvE'ers don't want to step into the ring at all. PvP'ers look at PvE'ers and say "To get better at boxing, you just have to stand there and get punched in the face."
Split the difference and both sides win.
I'll be there.
I'd like for people like OP to want to be there too.
@Merlin13KAGL
Excellent post, and sorry for the wittiness I tried to inject. I guess that Bosmer Guard in Eldenroot was right.
To summarise... if you have to loot them, and there is no split, you can watch the zergs feed on themselves as someone took their sweetroll when it was their time to loot. And that guy had more stones than my guy! And ... all the other things that lead them get into Zergs work against them. Having to actually loot- and having it take time? That will make sure that non-disciplined groups are getting their lunch handed to them. And the ability to take your stones back?
Add to that your scaling idea of odds, and I think that the problems will resolve themselves.Quasim ibn-Muhammad - VR 12 Redguard Dragon Knight
Taladriel Vanima - VR 5 Altmer Nightblade
Ambalyo iyo Bogaadin - VR 1 Redguard Sorceror2 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WhiskeyRiver.AZub17_ESO wrote: »jnjdun_ESO wrote: »jnjdun_ESO wrote: »This thread amuses me.
I wish there was a way that players could turn off stones and that this would be information that the potential ganker could see when targeting said player.
Let the games begin. You want to ruin our fun...we will ruin yours.
You deliberately turn off TV stones, then we deliberately turn off you.
See how that wouldn’t work? It becomes no fun for anyone.
I (and many others) would make sure to gank you then, for a couple reasons.
1. It means you don't want to pvp, aren't setup for it and probably not very experienced. Meaning an easy kill.
2. It means you're inconvenienced by dying, which makes it even more fun for us.
3. You wouldn't spoil our fun, pvp is just that, we have fun by killing other players, don't like it? Don't come into cyrodlil.
I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say.
I agree with you. If a player turned off TV stones my little group of gankers would kill that person over and over again until they left.
It is a PvP update and I feel they don’t deserve to be in there PvE'ing and feeling like they have nothing to lose.
PvP is all about risk.
ah apologies, yes it's a pvp zone, next it'll be "I can't complete quests in cyrodil without getting ganked, turn of xp/ap for anyone killing pve players in a pvp zone"
Let me remind you that pve has
18?19? Zones? Hundreds upon hundreds of quests/delves/dungeons/trials.
Pvp has cyrodil, and now imperial city. That's it.
Every dlc coming out over the next year is pve based, you guys literially have 20x the content with more to come.
So please, leave imperial city alone if you don't pvp, it's a pvp area, if you don't like it just stay away, do the new dungeons, ask a pvp guildie to craft gear if you need it etc.
Ganking is a perfectly acceptable form of combat, honourable? Where's the honour in 40k shield stacking sorcerers that can tank forever in robes? Or someone spamming a ranged skill?
It's a way for us to earn tel var stones? It's a pvp zone, one of the most important ways for us to collect tel var stones is by killing the pve.players!
Again,to someone who doesnt pay attention to the Devs,..it is NOT a PvP zone.IT IS FOR BOTH PvPers AND Pvers.OK? Can you wrap your mind around this concept?
The Creative Director already said it is for the PvPers. That Orsinium would be their love letter to PvEers. Seems like it's not the other people that don't pay attention to the Devs.
The devs say one thing, but their marketing people say something else. The OFFICIAL announcement of Imperial City was full PvE references: http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2015/07/15/imperial-city-launch-details
Even the ad on the ESO homepage makes it sound like PvE story content, quests and dungeons are the focus of the IC DLC:
Of course, PvP IS a central part of the IC, but that doesn't mean that the PvE parts aren't important, too.#CAREBEARMASTERRACE1 -
Araxleon✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Eunjung wrote: »WhiskeyRiver.AZub17_ESO wrote: »jnjdun_ESO wrote: »jnjdun_ESO wrote: »This thread amuses me.
I wish there was a way that players could turn off stones and that this would be information that the potential ganker could see when targeting said player.
Let the games begin. You want to ruin our fun...we will ruin yours.
You deliberately turn off TV stones, then we deliberately turn off you.
See how that wouldn’t work? It becomes no fun for anyone.
I (and many others) would make sure to gank you then, for a couple reasons.
1. It means you don't want to pvp, aren't setup for it and probably not very experienced. Meaning an easy kill.
2. It means you're inconvenienced by dying, which makes it even more fun for us.
3. You wouldn't spoil our fun, pvp is just that, we have fun by killing other players, don't like it? Don't come into cyrodlil.
I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say.
I agree with you. If a player turned off TV stones my little group of gankers would kill that person over and over again until they left.
It is a PvP update and I feel they don’t deserve to be in there PvE'ing and feeling like they have nothing to lose.
PvP is all about risk.
ah apologies, yes it's a pvp zone, next it'll be "I can't complete quests in cyrodil without getting ganked, turn of xp/ap for anyone killing pve players in a pvp zone"
Let me remind you that pve has
18?19? Zones? Hundreds upon hundreds of quests/delves/dungeons/trials.
Pvp has cyrodil, and now imperial city. That's it.
Every dlc coming out over the next year is pve based, you guys literially have 20x the content with more to come.
So please, leave imperial city alone if you don't pvp, it's a pvp area, if you don't like it just stay away, do the new dungeons, ask a pvp guildie to craft gear if you need it etc.
Ganking is a perfectly acceptable form of combat, honourable? Where's the honour in 40k shield stacking sorcerers that can tank forever in robes? Or someone spamming a ranged skill?
It's a way for us to earn tel var stones? It's a pvp zone, one of the most important ways for us to collect tel var stones is by killing the pve.players!
Again,to someone who doesnt pay attention to the Devs,..it is NOT a PvP zone.IT IS FOR BOTH PvPers AND Pvers.OK? Can you wrap your mind around this concept?
The Creative Director already said it is for the PvPers. That Orsinium would be their love letter to PvEers. Seems like it's not the other people that don't pay attention to the Devs.
The devs say one thing, but their marketing people say something else. The OFFICIAL announcement of Imperial City was full PvE references: http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2015/07/15/imperial-city-launch-details
Even the ad on the ESO homepage makes it sound like PvE story content, quests and dungeons are the focus of the IC DLC:
Of course, PvP IS a central part of the IC, but that doesn't mean that the PvE parts aren't important, too.
Well they also said legendary armor, I dont see anything legendary about it. its all green or purple.0 -
Athas24✭✭✭✭This is pettiness in it's purest form.
"I don't care about Tel Var Stones at all and they're going to try and kill me anyway, but I'd rather they didn't gain any from my dead because screw them".
There weren't enough times allowed for me to click agree so I felt compelled to post a quote explaining that I couldn't agree more with you. So petty and foolish.
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Athas24✭✭✭✭Why do you guys care so much if someone doesn't want in on this Game of Stones? I cant believe some of the posts in here.
In all honesty, if IC is supposed to be the place that merges PVE and PVP, it's not very well thought out at all. There is nothing that most PVE players will find attractive about becoming gank bait. The mindset of strict PVE players and PVP players is so completely different I don't know that any game will ever achieve making both camps happy. And I fear in the attempt we shall end up with a game that pleases nobody.
There's TONS of players farming for stones in there. .. that's why they are upset about being murdered and their corpses looted. I like the fact that the update blurs the lines of strict pve and pvp. I've always played games that have PVP servers where nowhere is safe from pvp. It's always the most fun!
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Baiting comments]Edited by ZOS_MatM on September 3, 2015 1:39AM1 -
Callous2208✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This is pettiness in it's purest form.
"I don't care about Tel Var Stones at all and they're going to try and kill me anyway, but I'd rather they didn't gain any from my dead because screw them".
There weren't enough times allowed for me to click agree so I felt compelled to post a quote explaining that I couldn't agree more with you. So petty and foolish.
I'm piggybacking by quoting your quote because I too cannot adequately express how much I agree with this.2 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This is pettiness in it's purest form.
"I don't care about Tel Var Stones at all and they're going to try and kill me anyway, but I'd rather they didn't gain any from my dead because screw them".
There weren't enough times allowed for me to click agree so I felt compelled to post a quote explaining that I couldn't agree more with you. So petty and foolish.
I don't know who that guy is quoting, but it's not me. I never said "I don't care about Tel Var stones". I you read my comments throughout the thread, I think I've explained multiple times that I simply want the option not be forced to loot TV stones ALL THE TIME. That doesn't mean I'm not interested in acquiring TV stones at some point.
But of course logical explanations mean nothing to you, because you are only interested in defending the despicable Gank'n'Loot mechanic.
Edited by Emma_Overload on September 2, 2015 6:06PM#CAREBEARMASTERRACE2 -
Athas24✭✭✭✭Emma_Eunjung wrote: »This is pettiness in it's purest form.
"I don't care about Tel Var Stones at all and they're going to try and kill me anyway, but I'd rather they didn't gain any from my dead because screw them".
There weren't enough times allowed for me to click agree so I felt compelled to post a quote explaining that I couldn't agree more with you. So petty and foolish.
I don't know who that guy is quoting, but it's not me. I never said "I don't care about Tel Var stones". I you read my comments throughout the thread, I think I've explained multiple times that I simply want the option not be forced to loot TV stones ALL THE TIME. That doesn't mean I'm not interested in acquiring TV stones at some point.
But of course logical explanations mean nothing to you, because you are only interested in defending the despicable Gank'n'Loot mechanic.
Try to think of it more as a "hardcore pvp mechanic." I personally feel like having the option to not pick up TV stones is petty. Nothing more and poor sportsmanship. Ganking is a style of play. dueling is a style of play, organized pvp is a style, pve is a style etc etc. It's been that way for decades now in mmo's.0 -
apostate9✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Eunjung wrote: »I'd like to be able to not collect them also. Then if I am killed no one gets them so no reason to kill my character trying to PVE.
This is the ol I'm a poor sport mindset at its finest imo. Who cares. You're going to get attacked anyway. Stop trying to spoil someone else's fun while you are playing games in their back yard.
Go collect stones so someone can kill you and fuel the new economic market already. ha-ha.
**edited for color because...I like pretty colors.
Your idea of a "poor sport" is extremely warped. Tel Var stone looting is the equivalent of jumping over the net in a tennis match and hitting the other player over the head with your racquet so you can steal his wallet!
No, he's pretty much dead right. Imperial city might just not be a good fit for you?1 -
apostate9✭✭✭✭✭BrosephMcDudeBro wrote: »Man, there are some seriously affected people playing this game. Here's a tip: see a therapist if dying in a PVP zone and losing TV stones "ruins your day."
Quoted for truth, brother. I think in the South they call those people touched. I just don't... I can't even... Yeah.3 -
apostate9✭✭✭✭✭The OP's basic concern is that they don't want people to be rewarded for PvPing them.
I think that's a load of bull, because now, you want to deny a feature to players who enjoy that feature because you get bumhurt over the fact they GAIN something from killing you.
That's AS selfish as the gankers. And guess what... You'll STILL get ganked, and made fun of even if you DON'T have TV stones. Its the internet.
So it solves nothing to enable any option to not pick them up. Its a spiteful suggestion.
This.
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Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The OP's basic concern is that they don't want people to be rewarded for PvPing them.
I think that's a load of bull, because now, you want to deny a feature to players who enjoy that feature because you get bumhurt over the fact they GAIN something from killing you.
That's AS selfish as the gankers. And guess what... You'll STILL get ganked, and made fun of even if you DON'T have TV stones. Its the internet.
So it solves nothing to enable any option to not pick them up. Its a spiteful suggestion.
This.
AGAIN. People in this thread are making up *** I never said!
I NEVER said I "don't want people to be rewarded for PvPing them."
I AM SAYING, I don't want people who kill me to be rewarded with MY LOOT. See the difference?#CAREBEARMASTERRACE1 -
apostate9✭✭✭✭✭WhiskeyRiver.AZub17_ESO wrote: »jnjdun_ESO wrote: »jnjdun_ESO wrote: »This thread amuses me.
I wish there was a way that players could turn off stones and that this would be information that the potential ganker could see when targeting said player.
Let the games begin. You want to ruin our fun...we will ruin yours.
You deliberately turn off TV stones, then we deliberately turn off you.
See how that wouldn’t work? It becomes no fun for anyone.
I (and many others) would make sure to gank you then, for a couple reasons.
1. It means you don't want to pvp, aren't setup for it and probably not very experienced. Meaning an easy kill.
2. It means you're inconvenienced by dying, which makes it even more fun for us.
3. You wouldn't spoil our fun, pvp is just that, we have fun by killing other players, don't like it? Don't come into cyrodlil.
I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say.
I agree with you. If a player turned off TV stones my little group of gankers would kill that person over and over again until they left.
It is a PvP update and I feel they don’t deserve to be in there PvE'ing and feeling like they have nothing to lose.
PvP is all about risk.
ah apologies, yes it's a pvp zone, next it'll be "I can't complete quests in cyrodil without getting ganked, turn of xp/ap for anyone killing pve players in a pvp zone"
Let me remind you that pve has
18?19? Zones? Hundreds upon hundreds of quests/delves/dungeons/trials.
Pvp has cyrodil, and now imperial city. That's it.
Every dlc coming out over the next year is pve based, you guys literially have 20x the content with more to come.
So please, leave imperial city alone if you don't pvp, it's a pvp area, if you don't like it just stay away, do the new dungeons, ask a pvp guildie to craft gear if you need it etc.
Ganking is a perfectly acceptable form of combat, honourable? Where's the honour in 40k shield stacking sorcerers that can tank forever in robes? Or someone spamming a ranged skill?
It's a way for us to earn tel var stones? It's a pvp zone, one of the most important ways for us to collect tel var stones is by killing the pve.players!
Again,to someone who doesnt pay attention to the Devs,..it is NOT a PvP zone.IT IS FOR BOTH PvPers AND Pvers.OK? Can you wrap your mind around this concept?
You are 100% factually incorrect. Please go read what Brian wheeler and his team have said about the Imperial City. As one of your colleagues and I have already established in a different thread, the Imperial City is in point of fact a PvP zone. If this displeases you, you will by no means be forced to participate. If however you do participate, and you refuse to buy into the idea of PvP, those players who have not handicapped themselves in a similar fashion will drink your tears.2 -
DenMoria✭✭✭✭✭
✭Since they don't interest me anyhow, when I do collect them, I'm sure to open the package so that when I get ganked (and I always do), at least it's easy to take them.
That way, I don't have to worry about them and somebody who really wants 'em gets a two-fer. 1 -
ZOS_Alex✭✭✭Hi there, everyone.
Due to repeatedly disruptive behavior in this thread, we are going to close it. We understand that people will disagree from time to time, but we ask that trolling, insulting, and spam are not acceptable behavior on the ESOTU forums. We encourage everyone to take a few minutes and read our Code of Conduct. It outlines the guidelines and expected conduct on our forums.1
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