Numbers Win

IxSTALKERxI

Whoever has the most players wins. No need for skill or strategy, just add more people to your group and win.

Teargrants

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

Whoever has the most players wins. No need for skill or strategy, just add more people to your group and win.

I called this one back on PTS too.

IxSTALKERxI

Teargrants wrote: »

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

Whoever has the most players wins. No need for skill or strategy, just add more people to your group and win.

I called this one back on PTS too.

Yeah same.

Shunravi

well, yea.... they have consistently and heavily nerfed everything that allowed smaller groups to stand against larger ones.

TheBull

you might be able to do a 2 v 3, but 2v4 is very rough right now. It doesn't matter the skill level of the 4 they can just last forever.

IxSTALKERxI

Same applies on a large scale. Run 24 or go home. Much harder for 12 man groups to be effective against 20+.

tplink3r1

Nothing new here, we know zos has been trying to turn this into a zerg fest since launch.
.

Publius_Scipio

TheBull wrote: »

you might be able to do a 2 v 3, but 2v4 is very rough right now. It doesn't matter the skill level of the 4 they can just last forever.

That might not be all that bad. I don't think ESO or any online PvP should facilitate a single player crushing stacked odds without second guessing anything. 1v2 ok, maybe even 1v3 for the top of the top players. But 1v3+ that 1 should perish against mid-level competition and higher (or properly retreat). The very top ranked should be escaping stacked odds by the skin of their teeth.

That in my opinion is real PvP. Good PvP.

ToRelax

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

you might be able to do a 2 v 3, but 2v4 is very rough right now. It doesn't matter the skill level of the 4 they can just last forever.

That might not be all that bad. I don't think ESO or any online PvP should facilitate a single player crushing stacked odds without second guessing anything. 1v2 ok, maybe even 1v3 for the top of the top players. But 1v3+ that 1 should perish against mid-level competition and higher (or properly retreat). The very top ranked should be escaping stacked odds by the skin of their teeth.

That in my opinion is real PvP. Good PvP.

That may be okay for instanced small scale fights with equal numbers. Not for unpredictable open world PvP. It means that most fights are already decided before they even started, how is that fun.

Publius_Scipio

ToRelax wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

you might be able to do a 2 v 3, but 2v4 is very rough right now. It doesn't matter the skill level of the 4 they can just last forever.

That might not be all that bad. I don't think ESO or any online PvP should facilitate a single player crushing stacked odds without second guessing anything. 1v2 ok, maybe even 1v3 for the top of the top players. But 1v3+ that 1 should perish against mid-level competition and higher (or properly retreat). The very top ranked should be escaping stacked odds by the skin of their teeth.

That in my opinion is real PvP. Good PvP.

That may be okay for instanced small scale fights with equal numbers. Not for unpredictable open world PvP. It means that most fights are already decided before they even started, how is that fun.

So just make a game where players can achieve demigod status?

In a fight when the odds are stacked against you, you're getting your *ss kicked or getting through it by the skin of your teeth. When an outnumbered army goes against one of superior numbers, 8 out of 10 times that smaller army is toast. when those remaining 2 out of 10 times occur it became a heroic feat.

Why doesn't that apply to online PvP?

The argument here isn't the zerg itself, it's the fear of lag coming into play.

Septimus_Magna

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

you might be able to do a 2 v 3, but 2v4 is very rough right now. It doesn't matter the skill level of the 4 they can just last forever.

That might not be all that bad. I don't think ESO or any online PvP should facilitate a single player crushing stacked odds without second guessing anything. 1v2 ok, maybe even 1v3 for the top of the top players. But 1v3+ that 1 should perish against mid-level competition and higher (or properly retreat). The very top ranked should be escaping stacked odds by the skin of their teeth.

That in my opinion is real PvP. Good PvP.

Its only harder for outnumbered people because bad players can mess up and still survive, mistakes arent instant death like they used to be. This will force many players into high burst/gank builds or tanky builds to survive them. An average build with decent regen, damage and resource pool can be considered a noodle thrower because the damage will be terrible.

Its all or nothing, play as you want..

RedTalon

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

Whoever has the most players wins. No need for skill or strategy, just add more people to your group and win.

Has been true since beta

bowmanz607

i soloed most of the night and did just fine. I played some small group and did just fine.

Rylana

Found the same thing out today. We were running two 10 man or so groups on Thorn in different spots.

It was very very tough, once we combined groups and were matching enemy numbers it was better, but the numbers game is becoming arbitrary at best.

IxSTALKERxI

RedTalon wrote: »

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

Whoever has the most players wins. No need for skill or strategy, just add more people to your group and win.

Has been true since beta

Not at all. Wiping two - three times greater numbers has been a thing since beta.

Domander

The IC is a lot of fun, many fun boss mechanics with crazy pvp mixed in.

Pretty sure your equation only works when no skill is involved.

Draxys

RedTalon wrote: »

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

Whoever has the most players wins. No need for skill or strategy, just add more people to your group and win.

Has been true since beta

lol

Ezareth

Won a few 3 v 6/7s tonight but it was far more difficult than it should have been considering the members of my group.

Lord_Hev

RedTalon wrote: »

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

Whoever has the most players wins. No need for skill or strategy, just add more people to your group and win.

Has been true since beta

No it hasn't. 1.5 and prior, it was very possible for 24 man groups to be out-played and killed by 8 - 12 man groups.

Taonnor

Remove AoE-Cap!

Ghostbane

You all understand ZoS despises 1vX videos? They have been slowly working to the point of were they will no longer be possible from a PVP vantage point. This pleases their gods.

Alcast

Well, I am sure 2(with 1kCP) vs 4(with 200CP) will still work
I really hope they will adjust the damage mitigation a bit...otherwise I dont see a futur for the pewpew

Master_Kas

Alcast wrote: »

Well, I am sure 2(with 1kCP) vs 4(with 200CP) will still work
I really hope they will adjust the damage mitigation a bit...otherwise I dont see a futur for the pewpew

Time to hit CWC to grind moaarr advantage over new players!

Maulkin

Teargrants wrote: »

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

Whoever has the most players wins. No need for skill or strategy, just add more people to your group and win.

I called this one back on PTS too.

<Brag>

Yeah, yeah... I called this one after the changes were announced on ESO Live 3 weeks before we even got PTS.



</Brag>

But no, serisouly, anyone could see what this update would do to the game. But clearly its something the devs want, so whatcha gonna do?

bowmanz607

Again. I don't see what the problem is. See a zerg then go to a different district. I have been so long and doing small group since it dropped. I was doing a 24 man raid for awhile, but it was boring and getting stones was impossible having to split amount that many. In telling you, give it a little time and people won't run in zergs as much in IC. The stones you get are too few. Also, it is no fun unless there is another zerg to play in that district. Having to run around from district to district with a zerg is annoying cause of all the load screens. Unless a zerg has another zerg to fight it sux. So either a zerg from each side will stay in one or 2 districts to fight. Without a zerg having a zerg to fight they are running around just trampling everything which is not fun for anyone. Especially cause the stone return 8s so low furthering making people not to run in zergs. I think IC is inherently a zerg buster. But it will take about 2 weeks for ppl to start figuring this out.

Winnamine

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Again. I don't see what the problem is. See a zerg then go to a different district. I have been so long and doing small group since it dropped. I was doing a 24 man raid for awhile, but it was boring and getting stones was impossible having to split amount that many. In telling you, give it a little time and people won't run in zergs as much in IC. The stones you get are too few. Also, it is no fun unless there is another zerg to play in that district. Having to run around from district to district with a zerg is annoying cause of all the load screens. Unless a zerg has another zerg to fight it sux. So either a zerg from each side will stay in one or 2 districts to fight. Without a zerg having a zerg to fight they are running around just trampling everything which is not fun for anyone. Especially cause the stone return 8s so low furthering making people not to run in zergs. I think IC is inherently a zerg buster. But it will take about 2 weeks for ppl to start figuring this out.

I have to disagree with you there. Stones function in much the same way as AP, the major difference being that you can lose them all if another player kills you. The facts that AP returns are lower in larger groups has never stopped people from playing in large groups before, I mean, IR routinely ran full groups, and their GM was the first to get the top pvp rank. If you know what you're doing, you can certainly farm stones/AP in large groups, and the large group size significantly diminishes your chances of getting killed by another player/group and losing all your stones.

bowmanz607

Winnamine wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Again. I don't see what the problem is. See a zerg then go to a different district. I have been so long and doing small group since it dropped. I was doing a 24 man raid for awhile, but it was boring and getting stones was impossible having to split amount that many. In telling you, give it a little time and people won't run in zergs as much in IC. The stones you get are too few. Also, it is no fun unless there is another zerg to play in that district. Having to run around from district to district with a zerg is annoying cause of all the load screens. Unless a zerg has another zerg to fight it sux. So either a zerg from each side will stay in one or 2 districts to fight. Without a zerg having a zerg to fight they are running around just trampling everything which is not fun for anyone. Especially cause the stone return 8s so low furthering making people not to run in zergs. I think IC is inherently a zerg buster. But it will take about 2 weeks for ppl to start figuring this out.

I have to disagree with you there. Stones function in much the same way as AP, the major difference being that you can lose them all if another player kills you. The facts that AP returns are lower in larger groups has never stopped people from playing in large groups before, I mean, IR routinely ran full groups, and their GM was the first to get the top pvp rank. If you know what you're doing, you can certainly farm stones/AP in large groups, and the large group size significantly diminishes your chances of getting killed by another player/group and losing all your stones.

The stone return is much lower than the ap return. It was also easier getting ap in a small group, but small groups had trouble taking keeps and what not so you had to get into a larger group to do so. Now taking keeps are not the objective. Nor scrolls etc when in ic. It is about the TV stones. The most efficient way is to run in a small group. Not to mention, when it 8s zerg v. Zerg they just keep respawning and dieing without getting more atones. The majority of stones you will get from players will be players running in small groups or solo who avoid the zergs. A group of players who know what they are doing can get around a zerg. So the only way to get these players to confront you is to have another small group and fight it out.

So thunk a out it. The people a zerg kills generally won't have many stones. The amount of stones you get from mobs split between a zerg is very little or possibly even none cause there was not enough stones to split between the group. Or let's take a boss that gives you 400 stones. Split between 24 is only 16 each. Also, only one person can get a cheat. So in a small group you can alternate the chests, but it is first come in a zerg.

The main difference between ap and stones is that you are guaranteed ap from kills but not stones. And stones are the way tk go right now.

Publius_Scipio

Hello! Hellooooo! Earth to ESO gamers! The game was designed, built, and marketed as a massive three faction alliance war! That's the whole idea! Lag is the only real wrench thrown in the spokes of the wheel!

No one was supposed to become ridiculously powerful and take on 5+ enemies at once and dispatch them without breaking a sweat. When you are outnumbered you get your *ss kicked. You're going around defining "fun" as pressing three keys in sequence and wiping out an entire group because you moved your pinky finger....

The alliance war is exactly that. You want a PvP arena for 1v1 or XvX? Keep lobbying for that.

manny254

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Winnamine wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Again. I don't see what the problem is. See a zerg then go to a different district. I have been so long and doing small group since it dropped. I was doing a 24 man raid for awhile, but it was boring and getting stones was impossible having to split amount that many. In telling you, give it a little time and people won't run in zergs as much in IC. The stones you get are too few. Also, it is no fun unless there is another zerg to play in that district. Having to run around from district to district with a zerg is annoying cause of all the load screens. Unless a zerg has another zerg to fight it sux. So either a zerg from each side will stay in one or 2 districts to fight. Without a zerg having a zerg to fight they are running around just trampling everything which is not fun for anyone. Especially cause the stone return 8s so low furthering making people not to run in zergs. I think IC is inherently a zerg buster. But it will take about 2 weeks for ppl to start figuring this out.

I have to disagree with you there. Stones function in much the same way as AP, the major difference being that you can lose them all if another player kills you. The facts that AP returns are lower in larger groups has never stopped people from playing in large groups before, I mean, IR routinely ran full groups, and their GM was the first to get the top pvp rank. If you know what you're doing, you can certainly farm stones/AP in large groups, and the large group size significantly diminishes your chances of getting killed by another player/group and losing all your stones.

The stone return is much lower than the ap return. It was also easier getting ap in a small group, but small groups had trouble taking keeps and what not so you had to get into a larger group to do so. Now taking keeps are not the objective. Nor scrolls etc when in ic. It is about the TV stones. The most efficient way is to run in a small group. Not to mention, when it 8s zerg v. Zerg they just keep respawning and dieing without getting more atones. The majority of stones you will get from players will be players running in small groups or solo who avoid the zergs. A group of players who know what they are doing can get around a zerg. So the only way to get these players to confront you is to have another small group and fight it out.

So thunk a out it. The people a zerg kills generally won't have many stones. The amount of stones you get from mobs split between a zerg is very little or possibly even none cause there was not enough stones to split between the group. Or let's take a boss that gives you 400 stones. Split between 24 is only 16 each. Also, only one person can get a cheat. So in a small group you can alternate the chests, but it is first come in a zerg.

The main difference between ap and stones is that you are guaranteed ap from kills but not stones. And stones are the way tk go right now.

I would disagree. Stones are not the end all be all. The loot is huge part of it. You get trophies for the vault, and items to deconstruct to make crafted items. In a big group loot will flow much faster, but in a smaller group you can get more stones.

Xsorus

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Hello! Hellooooo! Earth to ESO gamers! The game was designed, built, and marketed as a massive three faction alliance war! That's the whole idea! Lag is the only real wrench thrown in the spokes of the wheel!

No one was supposed to become ridiculously powerful and take on 5+ enemies at once and dispatch them without breaking a sweat. When you are outnumbered you get your *ss kicked. You're going around defining "fun" as pressing three keys in sequence and wiping out an entire group because you moved your pinky finger....

The alliance war is exactly that. You want a PvP arena for 1v1 or XvX? Keep lobbying for that.

Only that's not true, it was marketed as an Ava game similar to daoc, which had some of the best 1v1 and small scale pvp ever released in a game.

Publius_Scipio

Xsorus wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Hello! Hellooooo! Earth to ESO gamers! The game was designed, built, and marketed as a massive three faction alliance war! That's the whole idea! Lag is the only real wrench thrown in the spokes of the wheel!

No one was supposed to become ridiculously powerful and take on 5+ enemies at once and dispatch them without breaking a sweat. When you are outnumbered you get your *ss kicked. You're going around defining "fun" as pressing three keys in sequence and wiping out an entire group because you moved your pinky finger....

The alliance war is exactly that. You want a PvP arena for 1v1 or XvX? Keep lobbying for that.

Only that's not true, it was marketed as an Ava game similar to daoc, which had some of the best 1v1 and small scale pvp ever released in a game.

I don't know anything about daoc. I might be wrong but I don't remember anything about 1v1 and small scale PvP talk for eso. Only speak of massive keep sieges and stuff.