Playing NB against detect pots is like playing sorc without shields or templar without heals.

KenaPKK

It's a fact. There is a potion in this game that outright negates a core class mechanic, and that is just ***.

Gerardopg

There is a set that negates all the sorcerers shields too I don't see the problem there, but yeah I would prefer that they can give us a set that have the same effect of the detect potions, it would save a lot of money buying ingredients for the potions

Master_Kas

Gerardopg wrote: »

There is a set that negates all the sorcerers shields too I don't see the problem there, but yeah I would prefer that they can give us a set that have the same effect of the detect potions, it would save a lot of money buying ingredients for the potions

Yeah because a potion and a set you have to wear 5 pieces of is the same lulz.

Wish there was a "For 15 seconds you ignore damage shields" (and everyone close to you like detectpot)

The QQ would be so guuuuuuuuud

KenaPKK

Gerardopg wrote: »

There is a set that negates all the sorcerers shields too I don't see the problem there, but yeah I would prefer that they can give us a set that have the same effect of the detect potions, it would save a lot of money buying ingredients for the potions

That set does not negate shields... I'm talking about having all of your damage bypass the shield completely. That would be equivalent to what detect pots do to Nightblades.

And having a set that gives vision like detect potions would be as overpowered as detect potions are currently... Game mechanics need COUNTERPLAY. Detect potions and your set suggestion would have none.

Master_Kas wrote: »

Gerardopg wrote: »

There is a set that negates all the sorcerers shields too I don't see the problem there, but yeah I would prefer that they can give us a set that have the same effect of the detect potions, it would save a lot of money buying ingredients for the potions

Yeah because a potion and a set you have to wear 5 pieces of is the same lulz.

Wish there was a "For 15 seconds you ignore damage shields" (and everyone close to you like detectpot)

The QQ would be so guuuuuuuuud

That would be hilarious... lol... Let the other classes feel the struggle of Magicka Nightblade currently.

Mojmir

Alchemy has so much potential, explosives, corrosives. A build in and of itself

Dyride

If you think you are defenseless without Cloak then I think it is mostly a issue that could be addressed within your build. @Ezareth has a very good night blade that basically never cloaks.

I've really never thought of cloak as being an end all defense and mostly use it for repositioning for comabt advantage. Losing the advantage doesn't mean I've lost the fight either.

You can use healing ward and Shadow image if you are magicka. Stamina has other defensive options as well.

GilGalad

There is an ability I this game that makes you able to port to a chosen location which can be 36m, that's almos twice as much as the detection range with detection pots.

Additional random comments:
Healing ward
Harnes Magicka
Dodgeroll
Rally
Vigor
Fear
Double take

I forgot how long detection potions last now. 15 sec? With 45 sec cool down?

Oh and another point:
There is an ability in this game that outright negates a core game mechanic (block to prevent being hard CCd), even without having to aim and on multiple targets and that's just wonderful.

Gerardopg

Is the same shields needed a counterplay, so there is a set and cloack need a counterplay too so that's why they put detect potions, I don't see any problem with that even for me as a sorcerer was horrible to fight vs a shield stacker sorcerer, and for everyone is awful to fight vs a permacloak nightblade

Gerardopg

I think that the only fix the potion need, is that only the one who drink the potion can hit the nightblade everything else is fine

Docmandu

So.. are you now going to make 50 new threads about the exact same issue like your previous thread?!

KenaPKK

Only way to raise the odds of ZoS seeing the topic. They don't actually read anything that doesn't start with [bug], so I'm putting the argument in titles. What you guys say in here is inconsequential.

Regardless, I'm right.

Gerardopg

Yep they should take out all the counters to cloak that way is a bad nightblade can't win the fight, then he can escape and never die,

Mojmir

jnorris91ub17_ESO wrote: »

Only way to raise the odds of ZoS seeing the topic. They don't actually read anything that doesn't start with [bug], so I'm putting the argument in titles. What you guys say in here is irrelevant.

Regardless, I'm right.

You we're doing good right up until this

KenaPKK

Mojmir wrote: »

jnorris91ub17_ESO wrote: »

Only way to raise the odds of ZoS seeing the topic. They don't actually read anything that doesn't start with [bug], so I'm putting the argument in titles. What you guys say in here is irrelevant.

Regardless, I'm right.

You we're doing good right up until this

If you agree with the rest but not this, then your response is emotional and not at all tied to the logic. Your offense does not change the fact...that I'm right. lol

KenaPKK

Gerardopg wrote: »

Yep they should take out all the counters to cloak that way is a bad nightblade can't win the fight, then he can escape and never die,

There are plenty of other counters to Cloak that should stay. The difference is that those counters have counterplay, whereas the potions do not.

Most_Awesome

Currently on my AD Magica NB I play at odd times i.e 01:00- 04:00 UK time with my mate, and every campaign at that time there are still 20+ DC,EP scrapping it out so our only option is to ride North and try gank people. We manage to get a couple but then one of them pops a detect pot and Invasion whip,whip dead/Ambush, Surprise attack dead. Then its the horse ride North again which after 4/5 times gets rather boring and unfun.

Mojmir

jnorris91ub17_ESO wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

jnorris91ub17_ESO wrote: »

Only way to raise the odds of ZoS seeing the topic. They don't actually read anything that doesn't start with [bug], so I'm putting the argument in titles. What you guys say in here is irrelevant.

Regardless, I'm right.

You we're doing good right up until this

If you agree with the rest but not this, then your response is emotional and not at all tied to the logic. Your offense does not change the fact...that I'm right. lol

i didnt say i agreed lol

Forestd16b14_ESO

Uh no a smart NB was barely effected by cloak and now with the nerf to detect potions NBs are gonna be running a mock in Cyrodiil and Imperial City. Don't worry your almighty cloak is gonna be the "I win" skill soon enough........ and following soon will be the year of nerfs to NBs just like DKs.

Speely

Yeah let's see how well Magicka NBs do in the next update (they will do very well.) Not complaining, btw. I feel like they are in a good place. Let's just balance around them for all classes

More specifically, NBs have a unique class-defining mechanic that is not affected by any recent nerfs. That's pretty decent.

AhPook_Is_Here

I feel like the OP isn't getting his point across with 3 threads open by him on the same subject. Maybe try 5?

Dracane

If you rely on cloak to survive, then you're doing it a bit wrong. Cloak helps, but should not be your main survival component, ESCPECIALLY for Magicka Nightblades. Stamina Nightblades though... not sure how they'll peform now with less roll dodge. But the increased TTK should compensate for that.

I think, detection potions received a good nerf and they are no longer broken, because they were indeed pretty overpowered.
The trade off for drinking one is big enough and you only get like 16 seconds detection or so. With this increased TTK, killing a somewhat good Nightblade within 16 seconds is very hard, especially Magicka Nightblades.

Forestd16b14_ESO

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

I feel like the OP isn't getting his point across with 3 threads open by him on the same subject. Maybe try 5?

At this point he is trying to get something buffed when it doesn't need buffed and something nerfed when it already got nerfed.

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO

Dracane wrote: »

If you rely on cloak to survive, then you're doing it a bit wrong. Cloak helps, but should not be your main survival component, ESCPECIALLY for Magicka Nightblades. Stamina Nightblades though... not sure how they'll peform now with less roll dodge. But the increased TTK should compensate for that.

Umm a yeah.... now that Dodge roll's were nerfed as well, speaking as a Stamina heavy Hybrid Nightblade, oh wait.. maybe I should just Block attacks...oh wait I cannot do that either...durrrrrrrrr

Thank god for Vigor and the new TTK right, now I can just play as a NoN-Nightblade Nightblade, cannot cloak that much (stamina hvy) and if I do Cloak I get seen by a group if just one person has a detect potion running (only the person drinking the potion should see the Nightblade, it should not be shared..full stop..), cannot dodge roll alot anymore (because people couldn't learn to play "OMG I can't Catch or Damage dodge rollers..." sounds like the cry babies that cried about Bolt Escape and because of it that ability gets nerfed to the ground, and people wonder why I don't play a Sorc...), I cannot block since I use Stamina for Damage (and It doesn't regen anymore, of course ZOS can't fix it the correct way and Grey out skills while Blocking so people can't Block-Cast) so that is out the wndow...

and now because of the TTK I can't sneak attack someone and really get the upper hand like a Sneaky Assassin Nightblade should be able to do..

So basically I can heal and attack...

well I guess I should just roll a Templar then huh...

such BS..

oh and Cloak, if I have to spend soooo much Magicka on it and it has soooo many counters, then it should be extremely cheap (like it should cost 50% less for stam builds), I don't see a potion that Negates Green Dragon Blood or a Templar's heals or a Sorc's shields...

and they say that Cloak should be Nerfed even more, what a joke..

Dracane

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

If you rely on cloak to survive, then you're doing it a bit wrong. Cloak helps, but should not be your main survival component, ESCPECIALLY for Magicka Nightblades. Stamina Nightblades though... not sure how they'll peform now with less roll dodge. But the increased TTK should compensate for that.

Umm a yeah now that Dodge roll's were nerfed as well, speaking as a Stamina heavy Hybrid Nightblade, oh wait.. maybe I should just Block attacks...oh wait I cannot do that either...durrrrrrrrr

Thank god for Vigor and the new TTK right, now I can just play as a NoN-Nightblade Nightblade, cannot cloak that much (stamina hvy) and if I do Cloak I get seen by a group if just one person has a detect potion running (only the person drinking the potion should see the Nightblade, it should not be shared), cannot dodge roll alot anymore (because people couldn't learn to play "OMG I can't Catch or Damage dodge rollers..." sounds like the cry babies that cried about Bolt Escape and because of it that ability gets nerfed to the ground, and people wonder why I don't play a Sorc...), I cannot block since I use Stamina for Damage (and It doesn't regen anymore, of course ZOS can't fix it the correct way and Grey out skills while Blocking so people can't Block-Cast) so that is out the wndow...

and now because of the TTK I can't sneak attack someone and really get the upper hand like a Sneaky Assassin Nightblade should be able to do..

So basically I can heal and attack...

well I guess I should just roll a Templar then huh...

such BS..

Hm yea I see, that's what I thought.
Right now on live, Stamina Nightblades can live without cloak very good in m opinion.

I think, it's just harder with the coming update. Everyone is going to need more regen now with all the changes and nerfs. Because regen has been nerfed a lot for everyone as it seems. Basically all survival tools took a hit, but also damage is much lower.

I think there will be some kind of balance. I'm only worried about Vampires Undead passive and this one set that reduces damage taken by 35% when CCed. I think, people can be even more unkillable than on live now with the given tools. I'm worried but let's see.

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO

Dracane wrote: »

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

If you rely on cloak to survive, then you're doing it a bit wrong. Cloak helps, but should not be your main survival component, ESCPECIALLY for Magicka Nightblades. Stamina Nightblades though... not sure how they'll peform now with less roll dodge. But the increased TTK should compensate for that.

Umm a yeah now that Dodge roll's were nerfed as well, speaking as a Stamina heavy Hybrid Nightblade, oh wait.. maybe I should just Block attacks...oh wait I cannot do that either...durrrrrrrrr

Thank god for Vigor and the new TTK right, now I can just play as a NoN-Nightblade Nightblade, cannot cloak that much (stamina hvy) and if I do Cloak I get seen by a group if just one person has a detect potion running (only the person drinking the potion should see the Nightblade, it should not be shared), cannot dodge roll alot anymore (because people couldn't learn to play "OMG I can't Catch or Damage dodge rollers..." sounds like the cry babies that cried about Bolt Escape and because of it that ability gets nerfed to the ground, and people wonder why I don't play a Sorc...), I cannot block since I use Stamina for Damage (and It doesn't regen anymore, of course ZOS can't fix it the correct way and Grey out skills while Blocking so people can't Block-Cast) so that is out the wndow...

and now because of the TTK I can't sneak attack someone and really get the upper hand like a Sneaky Assassin Nightblade should be able to do..

So basically I can heal and attack...

well I guess I should just roll a Templar then huh...

such BS..

Hm yea I see, that's what I thought.
Right now on live, Stamina Nightblades can live without cloak very good in m opinion.

Sorry, you been on the Nerf Dodge roll, Nerf Cloak (it needs a bigger cost, etc...), Nerf Nightblade Crusade for sometime now... your Opinion to ME doesn't matter very much when it comes to the Nightblade class..

Lucky28

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

If you rely on cloak to survive, then you're doing it a bit wrong. Cloak helps, but should not be your main survival component, ESCPECIALLY for Magicka Nightblades. Stamina Nightblades though... not sure how they'll peform now with less roll dodge. But the increased TTK should compensate for that.

Umm a yeah now that Dodge roll's were nerfed as well, speaking as a Stamina heavy Hybrid Nightblade, oh wait.. maybe I should just Block attacks...oh wait I cannot do that either...durrrrrrrrr

Thank god for Vigor and the new TTK right, now I can just play as a NoN-Nightblade Nightblade, cannot cloak that much (stamina hvy) and if I do Cloak I get seen by a group if just one person has a detect potion running (only the person drinking the potion should see the Nightblade, it should not be shared), cannot dodge roll alot anymore (because people couldn't learn to play "OMG I can't Catch or Damage dodge rollers..." sounds like the cry babies that cried about Bolt Escape and because of it that ability gets nerfed to the ground, and people wonder why I don't play a Sorc...), I cannot block since I use Stamina for Damage (and It doesn't regen anymore, of course ZOS can't fix it the correct way and Grey out skills while Blocking so people can't Block-Cast) so that is out the wndow...

and now because of the TTK I can't sneak attack someone and really get the upper hand like a Sneaky Assassin Nightblade should be able to do..

So basically I can heal and attack...

well I guess I should just roll a Templar then huh...

such BS..

Hm yea I see, that's what I thought.
Right now on live, Stamina Nightblades can live without cloak very good in m opinion.

Sorry, you been on the Nerf Dodge roll, Nerf Cloak (it needs a bigger cost, etc...), Nerf Nightblade Crusade for sometime now... your Opinion to ME doesn't matter very much when it comes to the Nightblade class..

Only real reason people are bringing this "nerf cloak" threads up lately is because other class abilities (most used as counters to Cloak) have been nerfed. as things stand in 1.6 i don't think nightblades need a nerf, next patch is a different story. personally, i'd prefer they rolled back all the nerfs they are considering and not nerfed anything, but that's just me.

Cathexis

Lol it is in no way like playing a sorc without shields and I play one I would know.

Davkin

Doubleposting is still no form of discussion. Multiple Threads on the same Topic account for the same. Have reported you, hopefully the mods counter spam.

Also you still have no arguments so you just scream louder.

k2blader

Wait, suddenly people are expressing understanding of sorcs needing shields, albeit in a backhanded way?

Very little if any sympathy from me.


(goes to make detect pots)

Ezareth

infracanisub17_ESO wrote: »

If you think you are defenseless without Cloak then I think it is mostly a issue that could be addressed within your build. @Ezareth has a very good night blade that basically never cloaks.

I've really never thought of cloak as being an end all defense and mostly use it for repositioning for comabt advantage. Losing the advantage doesn't mean I've lost the fight either.

You can use healing ward and Shadow image if you are magicka. Stamina has other defensive options as well.

I've always felt cloak is a crutch that relies on situations you can't control which means if you rely on it to work when you need it then you'll die when it doesn't. Instead I built my nightblade to counter virtually everything I come across in the game with the resources necessary for long fights. Cloak can help you do some amazing things but I don't think it is necessary at all and if you're me you never need to worry about people using detect pots. Plus us nightblades have Mark which is far better than detect pots anyways.

I'll be releasing my first and likely only Stamina NB 1VX video sometime today. I think 2.1 has effectively killed enjoyable combat for me.

Jar_Ek

Stamina sorcerers... no shields (1.5k on pts) - so are you saying that 1/2 of possible le night blade builds should not be able to cloak?