PTS Feedback - Combat has become uninteresting and far less enjoyable

Ezareth

kaorunandrak wrote: »

@Ezareth I agree with what you saying and I have been saying this since actually being able to test the patch, not 5 minutes and done, but actually spending a majority of my play time in PTS running builds and theory crafting while testing the tried and true setups. Stamina PVE DPS was already stagnate and boring if you were running the "META" because it had you exploiting known to be bugged but not fixed til this patch abilities and mashing one friggen button all day(30k stamplars looking at you).

Now with the fixes to those abilities, while needed and supported by myself, you factor in the defensive reactionary abilities getting nerfed? Guess what now your gonna have the same problem because why would you block if it kills your stamina sustain? Why bash when it will kills you stamina sustain (unless you macro it)?

However I meant to type your not going to get any traction with the Devs or the community here, there are plenty of us that side with you but there are far too many who want to see dumb down game-play, refuse to look at the big picture, instead they just go pigeon holing and driving the same singular point across while refusing to acknowledge that the change doesn't stop it from happening for magicka users (perma block casting). And you also have way to few players who have actually dedicated any real time to testing these changes in all aspects and in as many scenarios as possible they rather be sheep and go with the popular opinion or that of their favorite "twitcher". I wish you luck man but I think your wasting your time posting, all hail the mmo community to quote Obi wan "you will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy"

Yeah I've spent a few hours of each patch iteration testing as well. I'm not dedicating too much time to it because for one) I find it boring and after a couple hours I'm dying to go back to live and two) It sets be further behind on the CP curve (another story altogether)

I'll give this next round another go I'm sure and try a couple other options to at least solidify what my 2.1 builds will be but when I said I don't see myself playing this long as it is I meant it. There is no point in playing a game you no longer enjoy, I played WoW Arena for about 3 months before deciding the same thing. Utterly boring combat with very routine unchanging encounters.

cschwingeb14_ESO

If an attacker cannot pressure the defensive resources of the opponent, then what is the point?

But the opposite does not need to be true. A defender does not need to exhaust the offensive resources of the attacker, he just needs to stay alive until he can switch to offense/disengage/get help

I think that you are right, and people will decide to decide to take more damage and heal up in 1v1. Causing a greater shift in meta to heal debuff... Causing a shift to purge... Etc

The obvious answer to why would you block is that you now block when you have to, ie, not when just 1 person is attacking you. The regen penalty doesn't go up with each attacker. It may be that they need to reduce the cost of blocking each individual attack now (possibly with increasing the heavy armor block cost reduction)

I'm sure I won't like the way you are penalized for quick-blocking too, and wish that the loss of stam regen while blocking was handled more like stealth. But the east access to long term blocking/dodge rolling was also really bad

xylena

1.5 = light armor 1h/s permablock or gtfo

1.6 = cc/burst instakill or gtfo

1.7 = spam your one max dps move or gtfo

i don't think it's getting worse, just running in circles... they need to do what FF14 did and bring in leadership that understands how people actually interact with the game, filter out gamer idiocy and relate the important underlying stuff to the devs

Teargrants

WTB devs that play their own game competently.

Rune_Relic

xylena wrote: »

1.5 = light armor 1h/s permablock or gtfo

1.6 = cc/burst instakill or gtfo

1.7 = spam your one max dps move or gtfo

i don't think it's getting worse, just running in circles... they need to do what FF14 did and bring in leadership that understands how people actually interact with the game, filter out gamer idiocy and relate the important underlying stuff to the devs

This is why I asked them to empoy and MIT maths guru to design an automated self balancing system
One that lets you build anyway you want but automatically counters areas you buff with nerfs elsewhere to compensate.
A self tuning system.

This way, the only thing separating players is skill.
There is no room for devs to mess up the balance.
We don't get endless manual balancing attempts that all fail ..or create new balance problems.
All of which occupies dev time fixing balance instead of creating content.

You cant have a DPS biased meta and expect balance not to fail miserably.
You introduce Bias....you cant have Balance

Lord_Hev

WTS my soul for 1.5 again.

Draxys

Lord_Hev wrote: »

WTS my soul for 1.5 again.

^

willing to throw in my hot sweaty dunmer body

Yolokin_Swagonborn

ZOS has never understood the "Counters not nerfs" philosophy.

I never had an issue with perma dodge rollers because I used Detonation and curse.
Perma blocker? Use a skill that goes through block.

I am lucky that I have a class that has one of each of these but there should be more classless skill lines with these types of counters.

What we need is a wealth of new skills, fixes for old skills, and more counters and counter counters than you can count.

That is what makes fighting more interesting. Not cooldowns. NO MORE BLOODY COOLDOWNS!!!!


Imagine waking up and reading this in the patch notes:

YOLO's DREAM PATCH NOTES:

1. Roots now actually work and hold people in place. Bolt escape, teleport, charge, etc dont work until a dodge roll is performed, or the root is purged or expires. The latest nerfs to bolt escape are reverted.
2. Added 2 new abilities to the game that can be used by any class that apply roots including one that is single target and long range.
3. Added 2 new abilities to the game that go through dodge roll. Dodge roll penalty reverted.
4. Snares now reduce the movement speed of blocking opponents by an increased amount and reduce the distance traveled when dodge rolling. Snares are now useful. Reverted the no stam regen while blocking change.
5. Added 2 new abilities that CC or damage through block each with stamina morphs. One of these abilities makes you do greater damage to blocking opponents while slotted.
6. Added a new spell that is an OFFENSIVE PURGE that removes enemy buffs, shields, active effects.

BAM. Counters. You won't be able to slot all of these on your bar but that is the point. This will let you build for what you hate the most and want to counter. These won't be perfect but they can be tweaked. Better to provide a counter to something then to just nerf it to the ground.

BuggeX

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

ZOS has never understood the "Counters not nerfs" philosophy.

I never had an issue with perma dodge rollers because I used Detonation and curse.
Perma blocker? Use a skill that goes through block.

I am lucky that I have a class that has one of each of these but there should be more classless skill lines with these types of counters.

What we need is a wealth of new skills, fixes for old skills, and more counters and counter counters than you can count.

That is what makes fighting more interesting. Not cooldowns. NO MORE BLOODY COOLDOWNS!!!!


Imagine waking up and reading this in the patch notes:

YOLO's DREAM PATCH NOTES:

1. Roots now actually work and hold people in place. Bolt escape, teleport, charge, etc dont work until a dodge roll is performed, or the root is purged or expires. All nerfs to bolt escape are reverted.
2. Added 2 new abilities to the game that can be used by any class that apply roots including one that is single target and long range.
3. Added 2 new abilities to the game that go through dodge roll. Dodge roll penalty reverted.
4. Snares now reduce the movement speed of blocking opponents by an increased amount and reduce the distance traveled when dodge rolling. Snares are now useful. Reverted the no stam regen while blocking change.
5. Added 2 new abilities that CC or damage through block each with stamina morphs. One of these abilities makes you do greater damage to blocking opponents while slotted.
6. Added a new spell that is an OFFENSIVE PURGE that removes enemy buffs, shields, active effects.

BAM. Counters. You won't be able to slot all of these on your bar but that is the point. This will let you build for what you hate the most and want to counter. These won't be perfect but they can be tweaked. Better to provide a counter to something then to just nerf it to the ground.

Added a Spell to pull back Boltescapers - Range 50m
Added a Spell to pull back Cloaker - Range 50m

now we have balance

Yolokin_Swagonborn

BuggeX wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

ZOS has never understood the "Counters not nerfs" philosophy.

I never had an issue with perma dodge rollers because I used Detonation and curse.
Perma blocker? Use a skill that goes through block.

I am lucky that I have a class that has one of each of these but there should be more classless skill lines with these types of counters.

What we need is a wealth of new skills, fixes for old skills, and more counters and counter counters than you can count.

That is what makes fighting more interesting. Not cooldowns. NO MORE BLOODY COOLDOWNS!!!!


Imagine waking up and reading this in the patch notes:

YOLO's DREAM PATCH NOTES:

1. Roots now actually work and hold people in place. Bolt escape, teleport, charge, etc dont work until a dodge roll is performed, or the root is purged or expires. All nerfs to bolt escape are reverted.
2. Added 2 new abilities to the game that can be used by any class that apply roots including one that is single target and long range.
3. Added 2 new abilities to the game that go through dodge roll. Dodge roll penalty reverted.
4. Snares now reduce the movement speed of blocking opponents by an increased amount and reduce the distance traveled when dodge rolling. Snares are now useful. Reverted the no stam regen while blocking change.
5. Added 2 new abilities that CC or damage through block each with stamina morphs. One of these abilities makes you do greater damage to blocking opponents while slotted.
6. Added a new spell that is an OFFENSIVE PURGE that removes enemy buffs, shields, active effects.

BAM. Counters. You won't be able to slot all of these on your bar but that is the point. This will let you build for what you hate the most and want to counter. These won't be perfect but they can be tweaked. Better to provide a counter to something then to just nerf it to the ground.

Added a Spell to pull back Boltescapers - Range 50m
Added a Spell to pull back Cloaker - Range 50m

now we have balance

1. Revert the change to stampede and make it apply a root like it used to back when it was actually worth slotting.
2. Make revealing flare instant with no projectile time.
3. Apply all of YOLO's fixes above.
4. Hold training classes to teach people how to actually catch sorcerers with a gap closer
5. Hold training classes on how to use revealing flare to catch Nightblades
6. Explain that you can't counter everything with one build that has only 12 abilities.

Done!!

Thecapeo

Sooooo my stam, med armor DK build is basically going to be crushed by this patch then? I'm on console and just hit 14 and was about to start investing in making my new gear legendary. Guess I should just wait to see how this shakes out or just go Magicka instead.

BuggeX

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

ZOS has never understood the "Counters not nerfs" philosophy.

I never had an issue with perma dodge rollers because I used Detonation and curse.
Perma blocker? Use a skill that goes through block.

I am lucky that I have a class that has one of each of these but there should be more classless skill lines with these types of counters.

What we need is a wealth of new skills, fixes for old skills, and more counters and counter counters than you can count.

That is what makes fighting more interesting. Not cooldowns. NO MORE BLOODY COOLDOWNS!!!!


Imagine waking up and reading this in the patch notes:

YOLO's DREAM PATCH NOTES:

1. Roots now actually work and hold people in place. Bolt escape, teleport, charge, etc dont work until a dodge roll is performed, or the root is purged or expires. All nerfs to bolt escape are reverted.
2. Added 2 new abilities to the game that can be used by any class that apply roots including one that is single target and long range.
3. Added 2 new abilities to the game that go through dodge roll. Dodge roll penalty reverted.
4. Snares now reduce the movement speed of blocking opponents by an increased amount and reduce the distance traveled when dodge rolling. Snares are now useful. Reverted the no stam regen while blocking change.
5. Added 2 new abilities that CC or damage through block each with stamina morphs. One of these abilities makes you do greater damage to blocking opponents while slotted.
6. Added a new spell that is an OFFENSIVE PURGE that removes enemy buffs, shields, active effects.

BAM. Counters. You won't be able to slot all of these on your bar but that is the point. This will let you build for what you hate the most and want to counter. These won't be perfect but they can be tweaked. Better to provide a counter to something then to just nerf it to the ground.

Added a Spell to pull back Boltescapers - Range 50m
Added a Spell to pull back Cloaker - Range 50m

now we have balance

1. Revert the change to stampede and make it apply a root like it used to back when it was actually worth slotting.
2. Make revealing flare instant with no projectile time.
3. Apply all of YOLO's fixes above.
4. Hold training classes to teach people how to actually catch sorcerers with a gap closer
5. Hold training classes on how to use revealing flare to catch Nightblades
6. Explain that you can't counter everything with one build that has only 12 abilities.

Done!!

Added a Magicka Gapcloser for DKs to Catch Boltescapers

ScruffyWhiskers

BuggeX wrote: »

Added a Spell to pull back Boltescapers - Range 50m
Added a Spell to pull back Cloaker - Range 50m

now we have balance

Added a spell that target boltescaper or cloaker can use to stun and damage a player who is pulling back target cloaker or boltescaper

Now we have ECCM balance. This would be fun.

aco5712

BuggeX wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

ZOS has never understood the "Counters not nerfs" philosophy.

I never had an issue with perma dodge rollers because I used Detonation and curse.
Perma blocker? Use a skill that goes through block.

I am lucky that I have a class that has one of each of these but there should be more classless skill lines with these types of counters.

What we need is a wealth of new skills, fixes for old skills, and more counters and counter counters than you can count.

That is what makes fighting more interesting. Not cooldowns. NO MORE BLOODY COOLDOWNS!!!!


Imagine waking up and reading this in the patch notes:

YOLO's DREAM PATCH NOTES:

1. Roots now actually work and hold people in place. Bolt escape, teleport, charge, etc dont work until a dodge roll is performed, or the root is purged or expires. All nerfs to bolt escape are reverted.
2. Added 2 new abilities to the game that can be used by any class that apply roots including one that is single target and long range.
3. Added 2 new abilities to the game that go through dodge roll. Dodge roll penalty reverted.
4. Snares now reduce the movement speed of blocking opponents by an increased amount and reduce the distance traveled when dodge rolling. Snares are now useful. Reverted the no stam regen while blocking change.
5. Added 2 new abilities that CC or damage through block each with stamina morphs. One of these abilities makes you do greater damage to blocking opponents while slotted.
6. Added a new spell that is an OFFENSIVE PURGE that removes enemy buffs, shields, active effects.

BAM. Counters. You won't be able to slot all of these on your bar but that is the point. This will let you build for what you hate the most and want to counter. These won't be perfect but they can be tweaked. Better to provide a counter to something then to just nerf it to the ground.

Added a Spell to pull back Boltescapers - Range 50m
Added a Spell to pull back Cloaker - Range 50m

now we have balance

1. Revert the change to stampede and make it apply a root like it used to back when it was actually worth slotting.
2. Make revealing flare instant with no projectile time.
3. Apply all of YOLO's fixes above.
4. Hold training classes to teach people how to actually catch sorcerers with a gap closer
5. Hold training classes on how to use revealing flare to catch Nightblades
6. Explain that you can't counter everything with one build that has only 12 abilities.

Done!!

Added a Magicka Gapcloser for DKs to Catch Boltescapers

no no dont you see. We already have a excellent magicka gap closer in chains. Lets pull them in, give them a 5 second immunity in which time they can bolt away again. Your just using it wrong obviously.....

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Blocking was ok after the changes in 1.6. No more light armor face tanks. Everyone was happy. Same thing with the increased cost of dodge roll.

But then people started grinding champion points. stacking regen. Now ZOS has to nerf everything.

This game will eventually have cooldowns on everything (just like every other MMO) because ZOS insists on increasing vet levels and adding meaningless vertical progression systems into the game like the Crapion system.

So much for a unique game with no cooldowns. I guess giving people something to grind to distract them from the lack of content is more important than great gameplay.

Joy_Division

Rune_Relic wrote: »

xylena wrote: »

1.5 = light armor 1h/s permablock or gtfo

1.6 = cc/burst instakill or gtfo

1.7 = spam your one max dps move or gtfo

i don't think it's getting worse, just running in circles... they need to do what FF14 did and bring in leadership that understands how people actually interact with the game, filter out gamer idiocy and relate the important underlying stuff to the devs

This is why I asked them to empoy and MIT maths guru to design an automated self balancing system
One that lets you build anyway you want but automatically counters areas you buff with nerfs elsewhere to compensate.
A self tuning system.

You don't need an MIT math guru. Someone who scored a 650 on their math SATs can see the imbalances.

Ezareth

Joy_Division wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

xylena wrote: »

1.5 = light armor 1h/s permablock or gtfo

1.6 = cc/burst instakill or gtfo

1.7 = spam your one max dps move or gtfo

i don't think it's getting worse, just running in circles... they need to do what FF14 did and bring in leadership that understands how people actually interact with the game, filter out gamer idiocy and relate the important underlying stuff to the devs

This is why I asked them to empoy and MIT maths guru to design an automated self balancing system
One that lets you build anyway you want but automatically counters areas you buff with nerfs elsewhere to compensate.
A self tuning system.

You don't need an MIT math guru. Someone who scored a 650 on their math SATs can see the imbalances.

Well you'd need the full Google Engineer team coupled with Albert Einstein to create the algorithms necessary to design a "Self balancing" system, and the hamster that powers the server farm would croak trying to crunch the first computations.

Even then, I don't think we can find 10 people who all agree on what they consider "balanced" even means to them which is always the problem with balancing games in general. The fact that the game engine appears to be extremely unwieldy and difficult to change doesn't exactly lend itself to easy balance tweaks.

I'm far happier trying to aim for a state of "relative balance" where there are some inequalities but nothing that can't be overcome or compensated for. Something that preferably leaves the game and combat fun to play.

Joy_Division

Ezareth wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

xylena wrote: »

1.5 = light armor 1h/s permablock or gtfo

1.6 = cc/burst instakill or gtfo

1.7 = spam your one max dps move or gtfo

i don't think it's getting worse, just running in circles... they need to do what FF14 did and bring in leadership that understands how people actually interact with the game, filter out gamer idiocy and relate the important underlying stuff to the devs

This is why I asked them to empoy and MIT maths guru to design an automated self balancing system
One that lets you build anyway you want but automatically counters areas you buff with nerfs elsewhere to compensate.
A self tuning system.

You don't need an MIT math guru. Someone who scored a 650 on their math SATs can see the imbalances.

Well you'd need the full Google Engineer team coupled with Albert Einstein to create the algorithms necessary to design a "Self balancing" system, and the hamster that powers the server farm would croak trying to crunch the first computations.

Even then, I don't think we can find 10 people who all agree on what they consider "balanced" even means to them which is always the problem with balancing games in general. The fact that the game engine appears to be extremely unwieldy and difficult to change doesn't exactly lend itself to easy balance tweaks.

I'm far happier trying to aim for a state of "relative balance" where there are some inequalities but nothing that can't be overcome or compensated for. Something that preferably leaves the game and combat fun to play.

True 'dat.

kaorunandrak

I think the only way they could go for true balance is to drop classes and open the skills up for everyone, but even then you would have people choosing the 5-10 most Op skills from each of the class skill lines for their chosen role and slotting only those.

caperon

Ezareth wrote: »

The fact that the game engine appears to be extremely unwieldy and difficult to change doesn't exactly lend itself to easy balance tweaks.

Are you saying that Zenimax is unable to mantain or modify their own code?

capnbinky

I am totally dreading the combat changes, tbh. I am looking forward to IC, but if I could give it up to avoid the horrible nerf bat to my game (which somehow magickally hits all of my character builds, missing none), I would.

The worst ones are the blocking and dodge-rolling nerfs, though my lowbie sorc just got much less fun too.

Ezareth

caperon wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

The fact that the game engine appears to be extremely unwieldy and difficult to change doesn't exactly lend itself to easy balance tweaks.

Are you saying that Zenimax is unable to mantain or modify their own code?

I said unwieldy and difficult not impossible.

If I had to guess I'd say the issue lies more with their use of the Havok engine than anything else but I'd be guessing at that point. Either way, judging from comments that the devs have mentioned over the past two years it is evident that many changes that should be quite easy (like Nirnhoned/Sharpened Bug etc) are pretty difficult to fix. I know as game designer and programmer myself that what the typical users think are "easy" changes are rarely ever that. However, some things that were easy to reproduce and often just database value changes in this game have just had me boggled at the time required by ZoS to fix in the past.

Ezareth

capnbinky wrote: »

I am totally dreading the combat changes, tbh. I am looking forward to IC, but if I could give it up to avoid the horrible nerf bat to my game (which somehow magickally hits all of my character builds, missing none), I would.

The worst ones are the blocking and dodge-rolling nerfs, though my lowbie sorc just got much less fun too.

Yup.

My Sorc in PvE content used to bolt escape everywhere instead of mounting like everyone else. I used to love farming nodes on my sorc by bolting over terrain and rocks and such, all that is gone. I ride my horse so much in Cyrodiil....the last thing I want to do is ride it in PvE as well.

My NB however still double-take > Sprints instead of using a mount as that is the exact same speed as a max speed horse and I can maintain that indefinitely.

I also love using block on my sorc which Im going to have to retrain myself to *never* do on my sorc now.

I'm looking forward to the content and progression of IC along with all the new things to do and especially the exploit fixes but the combat changes put the whole patch into the negative for me.

capnbinky

Thecapeo wrote: »

Sooooo my stam, med armor DK build is basically going to be crushed by this patch then? I'm on console and just hit 14 and was about to start investing in making my new gear legendary. Guess I should just wait to see how this shakes out or just go Magicka instead.

Yeah, it's going to hit Magicka hard too. I kite and rely on dodge-roll to avoid dying in all light in an up-close fight. Block/casting? Getting out of cc? Basically all of my survivability options are severely curtailed until I have as many Champion points as someone who has been in the game a year longer than I have.

This is the worst for people (like me) who are new to the game but have been here just long enough to barely feel competent. Now we get to relearn everything and probably spend our minor amounts of gold to try to find another way to survive.

Why can't they just apply nerfs to Cyrodiil if they must, when it's PVP that's the issue? (Note: I love PVP. But I see no reason to nerf PVE.)

capnbinky

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

ZOS has never understood the "Counters not nerfs" philosophy.

I never had an issue with perma dodge rollers because I used Detonation and curse.
Perma blocker? Use a skill that goes through block.

I am lucky that I have a class that has one of each of these but there should be more classless skill lines with these types of counters.

What we need is a wealth of new skills, fixes for old skills, and more counters and counter counters than you can count.

That is what makes fighting more interesting. Not cooldowns. NO MORE BLOODY COOLDOWNS!!!!


Imagine waking up and reading this in the patch notes:

YOLO's DREAM PATCH NOTES:

1. Roots now actually work and hold people in place. Bolt escape, teleport, charge, etc dont work until a dodge roll is performed, or the root is purged or expires. The latest nerfs to bolt escape are reverted.
2. Added 2 new abilities to the game that can be used by any class that apply roots including one that is single target and long range.
3. Added 2 new abilities to the game that go through dodge roll. Dodge roll penalty reverted.
4. Snares now reduce the movement speed of blocking opponents by an increased amount and reduce the distance traveled when dodge rolling. Snares are now useful. Reverted the no stam regen while blocking change.
5. Added 2 new abilities that CC or damage through block each with stamina morphs. One of these abilities makes you do greater damage to blocking opponents while slotted.
6. Added a new spell that is an OFFENSIVE PURGE that removes enemy buffs, shields, active effects.

BAM. Counters. You won't be able to slot all of these on your bar but that is the point. This will let you build for what you hate the most and want to counter. These won't be perfect but they can be tweaked. Better to provide a counter to something then to just nerf it to the ground.

THIS. More options, more strategy, more fun. YES PLEASE.

I enjoy hard combat, just want my shiny options for strategy.

Tors

Why are you hamstringing yourself in this way?

90 points into a champion line is a total waste of time.


90 Points in mooncalf gives you 23.4% stam regen bonus

50 Points gives you 15.6%
60 Points gives you 17.7%
70 Points gives you 19.7%
80 Points gives you 21.6%

Look at the returns on the graph below.

Xsorus

Again all they needed was to add soft caps back, instead they use a sledge hammer instead of a chisel and cause more issues

TBois

Xsorus wrote: »

Again all they needed was to add soft caps back, instead they use a sledge hammer instead of a chisel and cause more issues

Don't you know maces are OP?

Ezareth

Tors wrote: »

Why are you hamstringing yourself in this way?

90 points into a champion line is a total waste of time.


90 Points in mooncalf gives you 23.4% stam regen bonus

50 Points gives you 15.6%
60 Points gives you 17.7%
70 Points gives you 19.7%
80 Points gives you 21.6%

Look at the returns on the graph below.

I'm aware of the diminishing returns on passives.

I'm maxing it because it is multiplicative with all other sources of regen and I'm a Bosmer Nightblade.

This includes
Refreshing Shadows (NB Passive 30% on live 15% on PTS
Bosmer Racial
Medium Armor
Drink (Currently Bugged)
Major and Minor Endurance (Tri-pots and Relentless Focus)
Battle Rush(kill someone with 2 hander)
Continuous Attack
Serpent (in 2.1)
Jewelry Enchants (actually BiS on PTS)
All regen set bonuses

All of these bonuses which I have the majority of make even the 90th point into Mooncalf greater than the 11th point in Warlord or Tumbling.

hrothbern

Ezareth wrote: »

caperon wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

The fact that the game engine appears to be extremely unwieldy and difficult to change doesn't exactly lend itself to easy balance tweaks.

Are you saying that Zenimax is unable to mantain or modify their own code?

I said unwieldy and difficult not impossible.

If I had to guess I'd say the issue lies more with their use of the Havok engine than anything else but I'd be guessing at that point. Either way, judging from comments that the devs have mentioned over the past two years it is evident that many changes that should be quite easy (like Nirnhoned/Sharpened Bug etc) are pretty difficult to fix. I know as game designer and programmer myself that what the typical users think are "easy" changes are rarely ever that. However, some things that were easy to reproduce and often just database value changes in this game have just had me boggled at the time required by ZoS to fix in the past.

However, some things that were easy to reproduce and often just database value changes in this game have just had me boggled at the time required by ZoS to fix in the past.

Very much agree with you !!!
Kind of the same background as you, both coding and later on managing.. I am 60 now and my first game was Star Trek on a Unix system at the university, playing during the nights, because the professors had prime time

Seems that the devs have also not really a "God-mode", where they can play around with changes and from there have internal meetrings to converge to a somewhat crude mature product, that can be thrown in external testing with customers.

I really do not understand what is the root cause at Zenimax....

But, regardless all this ***...

THIS IS A GREAT GAME WITH A BIG POTENTIAL FOR MANY HOURS OF FUN