New Classes

AfkNinja

Monk - hand to hand combat

TheShadowScout wrote: »

I'd prefer them to add "class morphs" instead of new classes, so people who already have all character slots filled can benefit from it was well... and everyone can diversify their existing characters instead of having to level a new one from scratch...

Lemme as I usually do when this or similar comes up post my idea once again, current revision:
Personally I would think the best way to add more "classes" is to give each class, say, three different "class morphs", each with its own new skill/passives line. Perhaps becoming available after completing cadwells silver/gold... to reward people who do play through that - a variation of the idea was to let them do the class morph after silver, and let them pick a cross-class skill line (basic class skills only) after gold...

Some possibilities:

Dragonknight
- Gladiator (offensive self buffs & warcries; color: red/orange)
- Pyromancer (flame resist and even more fire; color: yellow/blue - gas flame!)
- Warlord (defensive group buffs, AoE standards, color: purple/gold)

Nightblade
- Illusionist (illusion summoning, mind magic; color: red/black - NPC illusionist)
- Monk (melee support & assorted “matrial arts” magic; color: blue/purple)
- Ranger (animal summoning and nature magic; color: brown/green)

Sorceror
- Cryomancer (ice magic, color: white/clear - NPC cryomancer)
- Necromancer (death magic and undead summoning; color: cyan - NPC coldfire)
- Spellsword (melee support & buff magic; color: yellow/orange)

Templar
- Druid/Shaman (nature magic, totems, animal summons; color: green/brown)
- Crusader/Paladin (melee support and aura-style buff magic; color: white/gold)
- Witch-hunter (counterspells, spell resistance/shields, silencing; color: purple/red)

Another possible idea was to not only have an added skill line with its own flavor of visual effects, but maybe even morph the existing effects to match.
So for example if a sorceror goes necromancer, their spells might be color-shifted to necromancer “coldfire” cyan, and if they turn cryomancer, their dark magic crystals will turn ice-ish in effects, spells will get color-shifted to white-blue or white-purple, or a nightblade going ranger would have their reddish effects recolored to something nature-ish green & brown... that sort of stuff. For more visual goodieness and varietee between classes.

...of course, all those quick ideas are just very rough concepts, without much consideration but character fluff. I merely tried to give some options, and went for three instead of just two "magica-specialization / stamina specialization" - It's supposed to be more for added character diversity then anything else after all.

Thus for example with nightblades, there might be one magica-caster based with "illusionist", one stamina melee based with "monk" (Yes, a nod at the old D&D class of the name, the first “martial arts” powered class I remember in fantasy gaming) and one pet based as "ranger" since nightblades mesh very well with bow, and giving them woodland creatures for the "hunter" playstyle would seem applicable.

Similar thoughts for the sorceror - spellsword for stamina sorcerors, cryomancer since ice staves have no matching skill line yet (while fire and lightning staves sort of have), and necromancer because all too many people really, really want that...

Templar... the druid/shaman is a very natural idea, between breton wyressess, argonian treeminders and bosmer spinners, nature magic meshes very well with Templar healing and sunlight-powered spells; paladin is for stamina templars and a nod at the old D&D class of the same name (possibly subject to TES-ification change), and my "witch-hunter" idea is kinda inspired by the spanish inquisition (Yes, I know noone expected that ), its "warhammer" imperial counterpart and also "Dragon Age", I admit it... seems logical to set up the aedric-flavored templars as natural enemies of the more deadric-flavored sorcerors...

Dragonknight I had the fewest ideas, since I kinda dislike that class. More fire magic for dragonknight magica-casters with pyromancer is a natural first thought... so then I went with "leader-style group play support" and "berserker-style single combatant" flavors, though there may be better ideas then those...

In any case, since more diversity is always something I would love to see... much more fun having more choices in realizing your “perfect” character, especially since the limited number of skills one can actually use at any one time (5+U) makes people having to think and choose anyhow, so adding more active skills only increases a characters choices, not exactly their power...

And yes, spellcrafting might be able to cover some of those... but spellcrafting won't give you passives, which these skill lines should.

I like how you think. Replace Vet levels with an upgraded class.

Moonscythe

Something else not listed

A magic user I can design myself. As things stand, there is no ice mage, the fire mage is really a Templar or Dragonknight and the sorcerer is a summoner. Let me design my own spells to do magic my own way, please. For what it's worth, the whole fascination with necromancy is kind of gross and icky.

Waffennacht

Necromancer - more of an evil caster

@AfkNinja you make me sad with your awesome idea. I don't know if they could do that but I would really like sub classes (if we have to stick with classes. Skill lines can effectively do the same thing

dodgehopper_ESO

Something else not listed

TheShadowScout wrote: »

I'd prefer them to add "class morphs" instead of new classes, so people who already have all character slots filled can benefit from it was well... and everyone can diversify their existing characters instead of having to level a new one from scratch...

Lemme as I usually do when this or similar comes up post my idea once again, current revision:
Personally I would think the best way to add more "classes" is to give each class, say, three different "class morphs", each with its own new skill/passives line. Perhaps becoming available after completing cadwells silver/gold... to reward people who do play through that - a variation of the idea was to let them do the class morph after silver, and let them pick a cross-class skill line (basic class skills only) after gold...

Some possibilities:

Dragonknight
- Gladiator (offensive self buffs & warcries; color: red/orange)
- Pyromancer (flame resist and even more fire; color: yellow/blue - gas flame!)
- Warlord (defensive group buffs, AoE standards, color: purple/gold)

Nightblade
- Illusionist (illusion summoning, mind magic; color: red/black - NPC illusionist)
- Monk (melee support & assorted “matrial arts” magic; color: blue/purple)
- Ranger (animal summoning and nature magic; color: brown/green)

Sorceror
- Cryomancer (ice magic, color: white/clear - NPC cryomancer)
- Necromancer (death magic and undead summoning; color: cyan - NPC coldfire)
- Spellsword (melee support & buff magic; color: yellow/orange)

Templar
- Druid/Shaman (nature magic, totems, animal summons; color: green/brown)
- Crusader/Paladin (melee support and aura-style buff magic; color: white/gold)
- Witch-hunter (counterspells, spell resistance/shields, silencing; color: purple/red)

Another possible idea was to not only have an added skill line with its own flavor of visual effects, but maybe even morph the existing effects to match.
So for example if a sorceror goes necromancer, their spells might be color-shifted to necromancer “coldfire” cyan, and if they turn cryomancer, their dark magic crystals will turn ice-ish in effects, spells will get color-shifted to white-blue or white-purple, or a nightblade going ranger would have their reddish effects recolored to something nature-ish green & brown... that sort of stuff. For more visual goodieness and varietee between classes.

...of course, all those quick ideas are just very rough concepts, without much consideration but character fluff. I merely tried to give some options, and went for three instead of just two "magica-specialization / stamina specialization" - It's supposed to be more for added character diversity then anything else after all.

Thus for example with nightblades, there might be one magica-caster based with "illusionist", one stamina melee based with "monk" (Yes, a nod at the old D&D class of the name, the first “martial arts” powered class I remember in fantasy gaming) and one pet based as "ranger" since nightblades mesh very well with bow, and giving them woodland creatures for the "hunter" playstyle would seem applicable.

Similar thoughts for the sorceror - spellsword for stamina sorcerors, cryomancer since ice staves have no matching skill line yet (while fire and lightning staves sort of have), and necromancer because all too many people really, really want that...

Templar... the druid/shaman is a very natural idea, between breton wyressess, argonian treeminders and bosmer spinners, nature magic meshes very well with Templar healing and sunlight-powered spells; paladin is for stamina templars and a nod at the old D&D class of the same name (possibly subject to TES-ification change), and my "witch-hunter" idea is kinda inspired by the spanish inquisition (Yes, I know noone expected that ), its "warhammer" imperial counterpart and also "Dragon Age", I admit it... seems logical to set up the aedric-flavored templars as natural enemies of the more deadric-flavored sorcerors...

Dragonknight I had the fewest ideas, since I kinda dislike that class. More fire magic for dragonknight magica-casters with pyromancer is a natural first thought... so then I went with "leader-style group play support" and "berserker-style single combatant" flavors, though there may be better ideas then those...

In any case, since more diversity is always something I would love to see... much more fun having more choices in realizing your “perfect” character, especially since the limited number of skills one can actually use at any one time (5+U) makes people having to think and choose anyhow, so adding more active skills only increases a characters choices, not exactly their power...

And yes, spellcrafting might be able to cover some of those... but spellcrafting won't give you passives, which these skill lines should.

I've really liked your posts on this in the past, whether I've said so or not. I do think this would be interesting, so long as we're able to switch between the morphs. In other words, if I want to be a Witch-Hunter today, it might be nice to switch to a Crusader tomorrow. By the by, Witch-Hunter was a class in Morrowind, I'm certain of this as I played one once. Crusader was also a class in Morrowind. I really like this idea although it would be a major undertaking for the developers. I certainly feel it would be a worthwhile one, but the fact remains I wouldn't see them doing something like this for at least a year if not more.

dodgehopper_ESO

Something else not listed

Moonscythe wrote: »

A magic user I can design myself. As things stand, there is no ice mage, the fire mage is really a Templar or Dragonknight and the sorcerer is a summoner. Let me design my own spells to do magic my own way, please. For what it's worth, the whole fascination with necromancy is kind of gross and icky.

I agree actually. I never understood why people want to summon the dead. I'd much rather call a lurcher to my side or a pack of wolves... something non-icky.

Salmonleap

Something else not listed

starkerealm wrote: »

Salmonleap wrote: »

ZOS made a mistake by putting classes into ESO in the first place.

You do realize, that Skyrim and Redguard are the only Elder Scrolls titles that don't use a class system, right?

In fact, with some variation, Nightblade has been a playable class in every Elder Scrolls game except those two, and I think the Travels series.

Meh. If you really want to go there, I've been playing TES since Arena. An old idea isn't always the best idea. Character classes are a relic of P&P RPGs like D&D. What you also fail to mention is that Daggerfall, Morrowind, and Oblivion allow custom classes. Skyrim takes that one step further with its skill-based system. ESO drags us all the way back to Arena with pre-baked classes. This is not progress.

Gidorick

I WAS going to summon @TheShadowScout, but I see he's already done his thing.

capnbinky

Something else not listed

Druid, or a mage with Frost orientation like suggested above.

starkerealm

Something else not listed

Salmonleap wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Salmonleap wrote: »

ZOS made a mistake by putting classes into ESO in the first place.

You do realize, that Skyrim and Redguard are the only Elder Scrolls titles that don't use a class system, right?

In fact, with some variation, Nightblade has been a playable class in every Elder Scrolls game except those two, and I think the Travels series.

Meh. If you really want to go there, I've been playing TES since Arena. An old idea isn't always the best idea. Character classes are a relic of P&P RPGs like D&D. What you also fail to mention is that Daggerfall, Morrowind, and Oblivion allow custom classes. Skyrim takes that one step further with it's skill-based system. ESO drags us all the way back to Arena with pre-baked classes. This is not progress.

Actually, Arena's classes actually slapped some pretty serious restrictions on characters, as I recall.

The classes from Daggerfall on, were more about presenting and enforcing a role for the player to take, than strict limitations.

Here we have the MMO powerset structure... which, okay, it is an MMO. Unshackled by gear considerations. So, that actually ends up with a stupid amount of flexibility for an MMO. Usually, with an MMO, if you've picked a class, you're stuck with gear for that class, and you can't vary out of it.

ESO, you can build any class into a ranged nuking mage, a heavy armor front line fighter, or a stealthy ***. You have a lot more freedom than you'd get from most MMOs, in that respect.

So, it is a kind of weird hybrid wandering off.

You can say, "well, they shouldn't have used classes," that's fine. But, then look at how most players approach Skyrim; doing a little bit of everything, and not really focusing anywhere.

Volkodav

Berserker - think stam dk 2 hander but w/passives for offense not defense

I wish we had it like in Morrowind.You could either let the game generate you a class,or you could pick and choose the skills you wanted,and then name your own class as well.

Sav72

Something else not listed

No classes....

This is ESO

Elhanan

Something else not listed

No new classes!

New skill lines is the best way to increase diversity. Not only that, but it also minimizes the future hassle of having to balance even more classes.

phairdon

Necromancer - more of an evil caster

Necromancer for me. With skills we see Witchmen & Sharman's using. Controlling undead minions etc.

Salmonleap

Something else not listed

starkerealm wrote: »

You can say, "well, they shouldn't have used classes," that's fine. But, then look at how most players approach Skyrim; doing a little bit of everything, and not really focusing anywhere.

We'll just have to agree to disagree then as I don't have a problem with other people "not really focusing anywhere" and I fail to see why it has to be the game's job to coerce into a relatively limited number of predefined MMO-trinitarian roles. Half the time, the difference between a bag of fail and a case of win is just a respec anyway.

I don't think the should have used classes. A purely skill-based system (a la Skyrim) would have been more interesting. It's the build, not the class that should matter. When players say they want more classes, I would bet that most of them just want more skill lines to play with anyway.

Sure you can be a heavy armour wearing Sorc that tanks, or play a light armour wearing healer Dragonknight, but classes tend shunt one down into certain preconceived ideas. The fact that the Spellsword, Paladin, Priest, Ranger, and Cleric classes have been suggested here when one can build them already using existing classes, guild, weapon, and world skills just demonstrates the strength of preconceptions.

They could have used/invented various martial art schools to unlock archetypal MMO roles. Join the Protectors to unlock a tanking skill-line. Join the Sustainers to unlock a healing skill-line. Join the Gladiators to unlock melee DPS skills. Join the Rangers to unlock a tracking and range DPS skill-line. Join the School of the Whispering Fang to unlock an unarmed combat skill-line. Not to mention the possibilities with more familiar TES factions like the Knights of the Eight Divines, Blades, Thieves Guild, Dark Brotherhood, Shadowscales, Order of Virtuous Blood, the various Temple Factions and Chivalric Orders, etc. The possibilities could have been endless.

Sleep

Something else not listed

Vegan, and I want to try one

SedoUmbra

Necromancer - more of an evil caster

Salmonleap wrote: »

None of the above.

Give me Spellcrafting, Weapon Ultimates, and more weapon skill lines. With that I can make any "class".

ZOS made a mistake by putting classes into ESO in the first place.

No they didn't. Imagine if you could take the Healing from a Templar, temporary invulnerability (pretty much) of a DK, the stealth/speed of a NB and the DPS and summoning of a Sorcerer... Broken Game detected! Fan base reduced to 5 people that got the game at release and got the "ruin the game stage" before too many others!

schrodinger_the_Khajiit

Mitchblue wrote: »

I want a class that can use a chainsaw as a weapon.. Maybe a skills where you can toss a hammer from 28 meters. You can call it the Tim Taylor class..

More power...

thunderwell

I'd like to see a class that's animal oriented.
A druid class line would allow shapeshifting into one or two different kinds of animals, with passives that boost certain stats in certain animal forms.
A shaman class line that is more healer oriented, whether it be via animal spirit totem or herbs.
And a beast taming class line that allows taming or calling on an animal companion.

Edit: Actually, come to think... A "fighting style," "stance" or "aspect" instead of shapeshifting sounds more lore friendly. Make them temporary buffs, like the early dk Dragon armor defense buff.
Bear stance would give some defensive bonuses and a wolf, cat or snake stance would give offensive bonuses.

Zorrashi

Something else not listed

Less classes, more skill lines.

phairdon

Necromancer - more of an evil caster

thunderwell wrote: »

I'd like to see a class that's animal oriented.
A druid class line would allow shapeshifting into one or two different kinds of animals, with passives that boost certain stats in certain animal forms.
A shaman class line that is more healer oriented, whether it be via animal spirit totem or herbs.
And a beast taming class line that allows taming or calling on an animal companion.

Like the idea of summoning a group of annoying spriggans.

SedoUmbra

Necromancer - more of an evil caster

Zorrashi wrote: »

Less classes, more skill lines.

*fewer classes

Sorry, I'm that guy.

Salmonleap

Something else not listed

SedoUmbra wrote: »

Salmonleap wrote: »

None of the above.

Give me Spellcrafting, Weapon Ultimates, and more weapon skill lines. With that I can make any "class".

ZOS made a mistake by putting classes into ESO in the first place.

No they didn't. Imagine if you could take the Healing from a Templar, temporary invulnerability (pretty much) of a DK, the stealth/speed of a NB and the DPS and summoning of a Sorcerer... Broken Game detected! Fan base reduced to 5 people that got the game at release and got the "ruin the game stage" before too many others!

Nice strawman there. You make it yourself?

The "problem" you point out is merely a relic of ZOS's class-based mindset. We wouldn't be in this mess if ZOS hadn't tried to make ESO like every other MMO out there. If a combination of any four particular skill lines would break the game, then the game is already broken. Given that we're at the point where the bulk of the QQ is about balancing four or five sometimes grossly OP class skills against each other, it's a pretty good indicator that he game is already broken.

The problem, however, is not insoluble. We already have mutually-exclusive skill lines (Vampire and Werewolf), there is no reason we can't have more if we needed them. Ideally the individual skill lines would be good enough, but not so great "everyone must level this skill tree" so one wouldn't have to go that far. But failing that, one could make the most egregious combinations mutually exclusionary. Want to study Assasination then you have to give up Restoring Light. Want to study Daedric Summoning, then you have to give up Draconic Power. It should be unnecessary, but it's easy peasy enough that your strawman doesn't really make a convincing argument against a skill-based class-less system.

Besides, anyone can heal already and the best two utility heals are on the Staff not the Templar. The only genuine reason to prefer a Templar over any random magicka build using a healing staff is Rite of Passage and that would be a moot point if we had Ultimates on the weapon skill lines which I would view as a prerequisite.

Eriquito3

Something else not listed

They should add lightsabers and jedis

And add Jawas as a new race... ohh man that would be glorious.

starkerealm

Something else not listed

Salmonleap wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

You can say, "well, they shouldn't have used classes," that's fine. But, then look at how most players approach Skyrim; doing a little bit of everything, and not really focusing anywhere.

We'll just have to agree to disagree then as I don't have a problem with other people "not really focusing anywhere" and I fail to see why it has to be the game's job to coerce into a relatively limited number of predefined MMO-trinitarian roles. Half the time, the difference between a bag of fail and a case of win is just a respec anyway.

You're free to believe whatever you like, but if there were no classes, you would see far more people crying about how there's no build diversity, and everyone's forced into very specific cookie cutter roles.

Would it be true? Probably not. But, it would be much worse.

And you say, you don't want to enforce the trinity, that's great. The problem with that is, even if you don't, you'll eventually end up in a situation where players will do it on their own. People trying to force Healer/Tank/DPS specs into Star Trek Online and Champions Online were freakin' hilarious.

The games weren't designed around them, and yet present anything different to a player, and they'll lose their mind. Maybe the Guild Wars 2 playerbase figured it out. I don't know. But, for most MMO players? No.

Salmonleap wrote: »

I don't think the should have used classes. A purely skill-based system (a la Skyrim) would have been more interesting. It's the build, not the class that should matter. When players say they want more classes, I would bet that most of them just want more skill lines to play with anyway.

Okay, what's your highest level Skyrim character?

That's not a bragging thing, either. There's a real problem with character advancement in Skryim over, say, Morrowind or Oblivion.

To reach the original level cap in Skyrim (It's around 82, IIRC), you will ultimately need to develop skills you have no intention in using. You get to a point where, if you don't abandon your build wholesale, you stop leveling. For some characters, this can start to happen as early as their 20s. One of their main skills hits 100 and there's nothing new to be gained from it.

So, when you're looking at Skyrim builds in 60s or higher, you're basically looking at the same character. Now, for a single player game, that's fine. But for an MMO, when you're working along side other players, it's a problem.

Now, they did add the legendary system eventually, so you could keep advancing a skill beyond 100... no, wait, once it hit 100 you could respec that skill and level it up again. Right. Yeah, so, that's a problem.

In comparison, a level capped Nightblade in Morrowind will look different from a level capped Crusader, or a level capped Agent. They're not just the same character, over and over and over and over again.

And, if you're sticking players next to each other, then you're going to need to say, "well that one's different, they do a thing I can't."

With Skyrim's one stop hero shop, that eventually goes away. The Dragonborn becomes master of all.

Salmonleap wrote: »

Sure you can be a heavy armour wearing Sorc that tanks, or play a light armour wearing healer Dragonknight, but classes tend shunt one down into certain preconceived ideas. The fact that the Spellsword, Paladin, Priest, Ranger, and Cleric classes have been suggested here when one can build them already using existing classes, guild, weapon, and world skills just demonstrates the strength of preconceptions.

It tells me they don't even understand what they're doing. A paladin is a Templar. And I don't mean that in the sense of, "well, you can do the stuff you'd expect from this other class..." No. They are the same thing. The words are synonymous.

What differentiates a cleric from a priest? I mean, even the author of the original post can't tell you that. All they can do is shrug and point us to their poll.

Salmonleap wrote: »

They could have used/invented various martial art schools to unlock archetypal MMO roles. Join the Protectors to unlock a tanking skill-line. Join the Sustainers to unlock a healing skill-line. Join the Gladiators to unlock melee DPS skills. Join the Rangers to unlock a tracking and range DPS skill-line. Join the School of the Whispering Fang to unlock an unarmed combat skill-line. Not to mention the possibilities with more familiar TES factions like the Knights of the Eight Divines, Blades, Thieves Guild, Dark Brotherhood, Shadowscales, Order of Virtuous Blood, the various Temple Factions and Chivalric Orders, etc. The possibilities could have been endless.

Yeah, but they didn't do that. Instead of trying to cram everyone into tiny little pigeon holes, they gave us tools to work with, that wouldn't be overwhelming to those who think Paladins and Templars are different things. They gave us the resources to do interesting things with the game, rather than patting us on the head and condescendingly asking if we'd like a cookie before giving us a designated tanking tree.

You can't figure out how to make the character you want from the material provided? You haven't been trying.

Unless it's an ice mage, because there we're all bjorked.

Kleptobrainiac

Something else not listed

Skooma Junky

DaveMoeDee

I like the poll, but it is confusing weapon skill lines with class skill lines.

I would like to see an unarmed weapon skill line. That is separate from class. The loss of at one or two potential set pieces would need to be offset with some pretty impressive skills.

I also feel like Cleric is too well defined elsewhere. Priest makes more sense to me. If Sorcerers can summon daedra, priests could use divine related powers.

xaraan

Something else not listed

I say no to any new classes personally. Four is enough and adding new lines like a necromancy line the way they have mages guild, fighter's guild, etc. would be the way to go.

IF I had to add a class, it would probably be some sort of Ranger.

sagitter

Cleric - group support role / buffing / debuffing

more classes more classes more classes, also more alliance abilities and more general abilities for the yum

F7sus4

Something else not listed

Necromancer is similar to Magicka Nightblades already.

TheBonesXXX

Shaman, I will write up my ESO version of a shaman sometime in the next day.

Will be more oldschool shaman with a few new twists.