Buffing Dragon Blood's healing percentage to over 100% (renamed)

Personofsecrets

Saturn wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Where is the problem?

Lol, if you don't see it I won't even bother explaining it

Please explain if you are able to.

s7732425ub17_ESO

OP stacks healing effectiveness to the max; calls it an exploit.

*facepalm*

Saturn

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

OP stacks healing effectiveness to the max; call it an exploit.

*facepalm*

It is a potential exploit because it is a heal that works in percentages. 95% is basically all my missing health. Having a heal that is guaranteed to return all your health when only used once is probably not intended, perhaps exploit is the wrong word to use, but it is in the greyzone for sure.

Saturn

Aunatar wrote: »

1) you can't kill anyone with your dragon blood
2) all your build is centered about maximing 1 skill, you won't deal any effective dmg; i could stand in front of your flame lash spamming vigor at 100% HP
3) a dps templar could do the same using only 2 skills, purifying ritual and then breath of life, any magicka class can use a class shield+healing ward (apart from NB's who can directly go invisible right after)
I am saying it not because I think DK's are "too OP", DK is in fact dead in PTS; if you don't believe me, just download it and play it, you'll see only sorcs and NB's, plus some brave templars who figured out their class isn't that bad now (finally!), but no DK's.
I'm saying it because it's SO dangerous to give any other argumentation (valid or not) to the "nerf any class which isn't NB" army.
Yes, I have a sorc and a NB which I will use in 2.1, and a DK which will be forced to be PvE stuff only.

Dismissing Dragonknights is silly, I know a lot of Dragonknight players who will continue to play that class because contrary to popular belief it is actually a good class for PvP. Even when you can't permablock.

Domander

Yeah, seems fine imo, you put everything you have into more healing. This will make you weaker in other areas. (but really really good at self heals)

Domander

Saturn wrote: »

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

OP stacks healing effectiveness to the max; call it an exploit.

*facepalm*

It is a potential exploit because it is a heal that works in percentages. 95% is basically all my missing health. Having a heal that is guaranteed to return all your health when only used once is probably not intended, perhaps exploit is the wrong word to use, but it is in the greyzone for sure.

If you were a templar and set up something similar, you would probably heal more than your max health.

Personofsecrets

Saturn wrote: »

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

OP stacks healing effectiveness to the max; call it an exploit.

*facepalm*

It is a potential exploit because it is a heal that works in percentages. 95% is basically all my missing health. Having a heal that is guaranteed to return all your health when only used once is probably not intended, perhaps exploit is the wrong word to use, but it is in the greyzone for sure.

>It seems extreme to me even though I tried my absolute hardest to get this huge healing effect.
>Is able to stack healing effects that high to begin with
>Exploit
>Hand waving and spooky ghost noises

Akavir_Sentinel

I'm glad to see that someone other than me uses this method of extreme heals in regular gameplay. I use almost the exact same setup as you and I can heal myself from death's door to 100% in certain circumstances. Using a certain build and skills, I can heal myself for ~45k.

Saturn

Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »

I'm glad to see that someone other than me uses this method of extreme heals in regular gameplay. I use almost the exact same setup as you and I can heal myself from death's door to 100% in certain circumstances. Using a certain build and skills, I can heal myself for ~45k.

Well yeah and this is only with regards to Dragon Blood, my PTS Argonian DK is near unkillable because of all the heals, burning embers, ultimate heal, flame lash, structured entropy, potions, etc. on the PTS with the 50% healing nerf I usually always have 2-3k healing per second. I am going to be trying out Healer's Habit and Unassailable on the Live and see where that gets me.

DovresMalven

This is exactly the kind of thing that really worries a lot of us about the balance and future health of this game...

Personofsecrets

DovresMalven wrote: »

This is exactly the kind of thing that really worries a lot of us about the balance and future health of this game...

Don't worry, the meta will shift again with the next sweeping nerf.

Personofsecrets

Saturn wrote: »

Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »

I'm glad to see that someone other than me uses this method of extreme heals in regular gameplay. I use almost the exact same setup as you and I can heal myself from death's door to 100% in certain circumstances. Using a certain build and skills, I can heal myself for ~45k.

Well yeah and this is only with regards to Dragon Blood, my PTS Argonian DK is near unkillable because of all the heals, burning embers, ultimate heal, flame lash, structured entropy, potions, etc. on the PTS with the 50% healing nerf I usually always have 2-3k healing per second. I am going to be trying out Healer's Habit and Unassailable on the Live and see where that gets me.

Unassailable is beast mode

Saturn

Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »

I'm glad to see that someone other than me uses this method of extreme heals in regular gameplay. I use almost the exact same setup as you and I can heal myself from death's door to 100% in certain circumstances. Using a certain build and skills, I can heal myself for ~45k.

Bit of an update.

Tried Healer's Habit, made my Live toon's 77% go to 81.7%, with its 8% increased healing from the 5 pieces.
Tried Unassaible, made my Live toon's 77% go to 83.9%, with its 8% increased healing taken from 3 and 4 piece effects.

Same percentage, different kinds of buffs, further indicating that x% increased healing taken is more effective than healing increased.

Further Update:

I'm now wearing 5p Twilight's Embrace, 2p yokeda, 4p unassailable on my Live toon and my heal went from 77% to 87%. I took Ritual Mundus on top of that, made it 90%. On a freaking Khajiit, LOL, and this is before the Ritual Mundus buff. Jesus me, imagine if I was an argonian, hahaha.

Personofsecrets

Saturn wrote: »

Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »

I'm glad to see that someone other than me uses this method of extreme heals in regular gameplay. I use almost the exact same setup as you and I can heal myself from death's door to 100% in certain circumstances. Using a certain build and skills, I can heal myself for ~45k.

Bit of an update.

Tried Healer's Habit, made my Live toon's 77% go to 81.7%, with its 8% increased healing from the 5 pieces.
Tried Unassaible, made my Live toon's 77% go to 83.9%, with its 8% increased healing taken from 3 and 4 piece effects.

Same percentage, different kinds of buffs, further indicating that x% increased healing taken is more effective than healing increased.

Further Update:

I'm now wearing 5p Twilight's Embrace, 2p yokeda, 4p unassailable on my Live toon and my heal went from 77% to 87%. I took Ritual Mundus on top of that, made it 90%. On a freaking Khajiit, LOL, and this is before the Ritual Mundus buff. Jesus me, imagine if I was an argonian, hahaha.

Thank you for testing. It's good to know that soft caps are still alive and well.

Saturn

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Saturn wrote: »

Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »

I'm glad to see that someone other than me uses this method of extreme heals in regular gameplay. I use almost the exact same setup as you and I can heal myself from death's door to 100% in certain circumstances. Using a certain build and skills, I can heal myself for ~45k.

Bit of an update.

Tried Healer's Habit, made my Live toon's 77% go to 81.7%, with its 8% increased healing from the 5 pieces.
Tried Unassaible, made my Live toon's 77% go to 83.9%, with its 8% increased healing taken from 3 and 4 piece effects.

Same percentage, different kinds of buffs, further indicating that x% increased healing taken is more effective than healing increased.

Further Update:

I'm now wearing 5p Twilight's Embrace, 2p yokeda, 4p unassailable on my Live toon and my heal went from 77% to 87%. I took Ritual Mundus on top of that, made it 90%. On a freaking Khajiit, LOL, and this is before the Ritual Mundus buff. Jesus me, imagine if I was an argonian, hahaha.

Thank you for testing. It's good to know that soft caps are still alive and well.

Haha. I upgraded my 4 divines pieces of gear to purple, which increased the 5% from ritual to 6.3%, which in turn increased the selfheal to 91% and this is before Update 7, which will buff the Ritual Mundus stone. I'll be able to get 95% on my Khajiit DK imagine if it was an Argonian.

Saturn

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Saturn wrote: »

Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »

I'm glad to see that someone other than me uses this method of extreme heals in regular gameplay. I use almost the exact same setup as you and I can heal myself from death's door to 100% in certain circumstances. Using a certain build and skills, I can heal myself for ~45k.

Bit of an update.

Tried Healer's Habit, made my Live toon's 77% go to 81.7%, with its 8% increased healing from the 5 pieces.
Tried Unassaible, made my Live toon's 77% go to 83.9%, with its 8% increased healing taken from 3 and 4 piece effects.

Same percentage, different kinds of buffs, further indicating that x% increased healing taken is more effective than healing increased.

Further Update:

I'm now wearing 5p Twilight's Embrace, 2p yokeda, 4p unassailable on my Live toon and my heal went from 77% to 87%. I took Ritual Mundus on top of that, made it 90%. On a freaking Khajiit, LOL, and this is before the Ritual Mundus buff. Jesus me, imagine if I was an argonian, hahaha.

Thank you for testing. It's good to know that soft caps are still alive and well.

I also recorded my proof:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2S3xYaqB38&feature=youtu.be

Domander

Saturn wrote: »

Well yeah and this is only with regards to Dragon Blood, my PTS Argonian DK is near unkillable because of all the heals, burning embers, ultimate heal, flame lash, structured entropy, potions, etc. on the PTS with the 50% healing nerf I usually always have 2-3k healing per second. I am going to be trying out Healer's Habit and Unassailable on the Live and see where that gets me.

ok, but can you kill anything? If you're using heavy armor and healing bonuses instead of damage....

Saturn

Domander wrote: »

Saturn wrote: »

Well yeah and this is only with regards to Dragon Blood, my PTS Argonian DK is near unkillable because of all the heals, burning embers, ultimate heal, flame lash, structured entropy, potions, etc. on the PTS with the 50% healing nerf I usually always have 2-3k healing per second. I am going to be trying out Healer's Habit and Unassailable on the Live and see where that gets me.

ok, but can you kill anything? If you're using heavy armor and healing bonuses instead of damage....

Yes, in fights of attrition I do really well, plus I have my gear set up in a way that I can still deal out damage. Plus my build is killer for taking on bosses. I soloed one of the Horrors earlier today, granted it was only the Frost Atronach one, which is kind of easy relatively speaking.

Wing

im glad that setup seems kinda viable, I would put it in the same boat as stacking health regen. that is: fun to do but kind of sub par. there are just better things to build for

though I bet healers love you ^_^

actually this makes the leeching and tormentor sets actually somewhat decent in a niche now.

Saturn

Wing wrote: »

im glad that setup seems kinda viable, I would put it in the same boat as stacking health regen. that is: fun to do but kind of sub par. there are just better things to build for

though I bet healers love you ^_^

actually this makes the leeching and tormentor sets actually somewhat decent in a niche now.

That's what I'm using on the PTS, though I'd probably still revert back to Eternal Yokeda once Update 7 goes live, since that set is pure gold in small fights. The setup is viable in PvE soloing (tested many many times in the Sewers, grinding for Tel Var stones) and in PvP, as long as I'm not getting zergballed it does as well as most other tank builds I see around. The increased healing from Dragon Blood means I use less magicka on healing myself, which means more magicka to kill people, which I also do. It would surprise you how many of the burst builds lose fights after 40s since they tend to exhaust their resources.

Domander

Something else to put this into perspective, healing ward can heal more than that without putting everything into healing. Breath of life with all those bonuses? one heal to full.

Saturn

Domander wrote: »

Something else to put this into perspective, healing ward can heal more than that without putting everything into healing. Breath of life with all those bonuses? one heal to full.

The ward sucks on the PTS, most people who use it never get the heal or much of it anyway as the ward is quite easily destroyed. Sure Breath of Life is good too if you stack all the same stuff, but the essential thing here, is that this heal is Percentage based, meaning IT WILL ALWAYS heal that amount. That is why I consider it possible greyzone, sure it's not full on exploiting, but it is setting up my build in a way that I am achieving untentionally high heals for this one skill that has no delay on cast, can be spammed and costs about 2.5k when stacking cost reduction. I just used it on the PTS no more than 10 minutes ago for about an hour-long session, safe to say my kill / death ratio was a lot higher than my templar healer companion, plus I can go full out stacking these buffs and still be able to take people out.

If you have seen people like Kodí, Vortexman or Fíre on Live, then you'd know they don't exactly hit like trucks, but they are very very difficult to kill and win most fights because of the skills they use (well-timed stuns, knockbacks, etc.) and attrition. It is the same principle that goes into this setup, but it removes the need to block as much.

Personofsecrets

Saturn wrote: »

If you have seen people like Kodí, Vortexman or Fíre on Live, then you'd know they don't exactly hit like trucks, but they are very very difficult to kill and win most fights because of the skills they use (well-timed stuns, knockbacks, etc.) and attrition. It is the same principle that goes into this setup, but it removes the need to block as much.

It sounds like skillful play and a consequence of the stam regen nerf should more people go this route.

Domander

Saturn wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

Something else to put this into perspective, healing ward can heal more than that without putting everything into healing. Breath of life with all those bonuses? one heal to full.

The ward sucks on the PTS, most people who use it never get the heal or much of it anyway as the ward is quite easily destroyed. Sure Breath of Life is good too if you stack all the same stuff, but the essential thing here, is that this heal is Percentage based, meaning IT WILL ALWAYS heal that amount. That is why I consider it possible greyzone, sure it's not full on exploiting, but it is setting up my build in a way that I am achieving untentionally high heals for this one skill that has no delay on cast, can be spammed and costs about 2.5k when stacking cost reduction. I just used it on the PTS no more than 10 minutes ago for about an hour-long session, safe to say my kill / death ratio was a lot higher than my templar healer companion, plus I can go full out stacking these buffs and still be able to take people out.

If you have seen people like Kodí, Vortexman or Fíre on Live, then you'd know they don't exactly hit like trucks, but they are very very difficult to kill and win most fights because of the skills they use (well-timed stuns, knockbacks, etc.) and attrition. It is the same principle that goes into this setup, but it removes the need to block as much.

If you're talking about pvp, healing ward is cut in half, outside pvp? 24k critting for over 36k I also doubt you're getting such good healing from dragon blood in pvp. Breath of life will ALWAYS heal it's set amount, and it can crit.

SturgeHammer

I think most of the concern about over effective healing only pertains to the interaction between bonus healing/shields and the battle spirit healing debuff while in Cyrodiil. OP's numbers are most likely intended if the testing was done outside of Cyrodiil.

r.jan_emailb16_ESO

Why would anyone consider this an exploit?

actosh

r.jan_emailb16_ESO wrote: »

Why would anyone consider this an exploit?

cause dps´ers cant kill him ^^.

Bashev

Can you test it in Cyrodiil with the healing debuff from battle spirit?

actosh

Have u considered the leeching plate set @saturn?

In pve it is fun. Also it has 2times healin taken.

Jar_Ek

Just a note from an Argonian... It's great that you can max your healing, but 9% healing passive is roughly a 3 and 4 set piece bonus. If it were magicka that would be maybe 1600 to 1800. A 10% max passive 2k from a modest 20k stat. So the Argonian passives are in no way OP despite their usefulness to niche builds :-)