Buffing Dragon Blood's healing percentage to over 100% (renamed)

cazlonb16_ESO

The idea that people might stack stuff to achieve unintended results seems to go completely over ZOS' head, we've witnessed this and their ... "unique" skills at math multiple times by now. I'm not aware of any instance they declared it an exploit and actually went after the people using it though.

actosh

if u stack healin taken or dmg should make no fdifference, but ppl will complain more when ppl can heal themselfs so good.

Skiserony

I wouldn't think this is an exploit, it's perfectly fine using all the possibilities and mechanics you can from the game in that way.

I know it's strong, but only the heal is strong about this build though. Is it going to be viable as a tank? I don't know, don't see it as the best option there is. Could work though.

I'd still think a Templar build around this with BoL will still be more effective.

Wing

Skiserony wrote: »

I'd still think a Templar build around this with BoL will still be more effective.

agreed cause it effects the group, if your going to build yourself to only surviving through heals and nothing else at least spread the heals around and help someone.

Rook_Master

Does Patch 2.1.2 "fix" this?

I ran into some unkillable DKs in IC in 2.1.0, but was wondering if the additive vs multiplicative change in the calculations fixed this.

Cinbri

Wing wrote: »

Skiserony wrote: »

I'd still think a Templar build around this with BoL will still be more effective.

agreed cause it effects the group, if your going to build yourself to only surviving through heals and nothing else at least spread the heals around and help someone.

Blood giving percentage of healing, while Ceremony fixed amount. So for 1v1 Green Blood=Honor the Dead, if used for extremely low healing Blood>Rushed Ceremony. Templars running with BoL are not as efficient for 1v1 as dk with Blood.

IxSTALKERxI

It's not an exploit, all heals work like this including % based heals such as cleanse, absorb magic or in your case dragons blood. You're sacrificing a lot of stats to build your character the way you are.

Saturn

Bashev wrote: »

Can you test it in Cyrodiil with the healing debuff from battle spirit?

I did on my Argonian PTS toon, was able to achieve 57% healing (not close to keeps), when close to a keep the Alliance war passive that buffs healing taken by 20% would give me 76% healing.

Saturn

actosh wrote: »

Have u considered the leeching plate set @saturn?

In pve it is fun. Also it has 2times healin taken.

I was using it on the PTS, I kind of like it in some fights. It is certainly a better set to have for PvE as players quickly learn not to stand in the mist. For PvP I will probably still be using Eternal Yokeda or as it is known in some circles Trolololololololololo....

actosh

Saturn wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Can you test it in Cyrodiil with the healing debuff from battle spirit?

I did on my Argonian PTS toon, was able to achieve 57% healing (not close to keeps), when close to a keep the Alliance war passive that buffs healing taken by 20% would give me 76% healing.

Thx for testing ^^.

With a big stampool u can get vigor also to crazy values. Sure ppl will soon complain about dk ^^

Saturn

Jar_Ek wrote: »

Just a note from an Argonian... It's great that you can max your healing, but 9% healing passive is roughly a 3 and 4 set piece bonus. If it were magicka that would be maybe 1600 to 1800. A 10% max passive 2k from a modest 20k stat. So the Argonian passives are in no way OP despite their usefulness to niche builds :-)

Well technically the Quick to Mend passive is "OP" since the way it is calculated is all messed up. It gives you a straight +9% more healing taken, meaning that it works additively and not multiplicatively as percentages should. Let me try and explain the difference.

Here is how it is supposed to work: 40% increased by 9% = 43.6 (40 x 1.09)

Here is how it works in ESO: 40% increased by 9% = 49% (40 + 9)

In this fictional instance it gives more than double the increase than it should. Hope this helps explain why I believe it is a broken passive.

Saturn

Rook_Master wrote: »

Does Patch 2.1.2 "fix" this?

I ran into some unkillable DKs in IC in 2.1.0, but was wondering if the additive vs multiplicative change in the calculations fixed this.

It didn't fix it.

Saturn

actosh wrote: »

if u stack healin taken or dmg should make no fdifference, but ppl will complain more when ppl can heal themselfs so good.

Well if I was able to get 100% damage mitigation I think the responses from people would be different. Seriously though, I am very sure that it is now possible to achieve over 100% of missing health returned from Dragon Blood on an Argonian and near 95% on non-Argonians. I know a lot of people think it is intended, but I don't think it is, especially not with a heal like Dragon Blood which is percentage based.

Saturn

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

It's not an exploit, all heals work like this including % based heals such as cleanse, absorb magic or in your case dragons blood. You're sacrificing a lot of stats to build your character the way you are.

I know a lot of people who are saying that im sacrificing my build for this, but really I am using tanking sets and still doing a fair amount of dps for a tank, the only thing I am really sacrificing is the Elemental Expert as that damage increase would help a lot. However, in Update 7 damage will not be the main factor in fights, the burst builds are not able to oneshot you, it is way more technical. Having an instant 100% health returned button that doesn't cost more than 2.5k magicka just seems odd, lol.

cazlonb16_ESO

The advantage of Templars is that they do not have to go to such extremes to get okish results with burst healing.

Personally I don't think it's possible in a realistic build to get what basically amounts to a full heal with BoL and my preliminary tests on the pts with Argonian, the leeching set and all the Templar internal boosts pointed in the same direction. I've never played an all out healer in this game though so I might be missing a few tricks.

The more relevant differences are the more difficult resource management and the abyssmal control options of a magicka based Templar anyway.

actosh

Saturn wrote: »

Jar_Ek wrote: »

Just a note from an Argonian... It's great that you can max your healing, but 9% healing passive is roughly a 3 and 4 set piece bonus. If it were magicka that would be maybe 1600 to 1800. A 10% max passive 2k from a modest 20k stat. So the Argonian passives are in no way OP despite their usefulness to niche builds :-)

Well technically the Quick to Mend passive is "OP" since the way it is calculated is all messed up. It gives you a straight +9% more healing taken, meaning that it works additively and not multiplicatively as percentages should. Let me try and explain the difference.

Here is how it is supposed to work: 40% increased by 9% = 43.6 (40 x 1.09)

Here is how it works in ESO: 40% increased by 9% = 49% (40 + 9)

In this fictional instance it gives more than double the increase than it should. Hope this helps explain why I believe it is a broken passive.

Maybe its the way zos wants it. They never mentioned this since release. It would become totaly useless if they change it.
Other classes cab get some nice healin to if they spec for it.

Saturn

actosh wrote: »

Saturn wrote: »

Jar_Ek wrote: »

Just a note from an Argonian... It's great that you can max your healing, but 9% healing passive is roughly a 3 and 4 set piece bonus. If it were magicka that would be maybe 1600 to 1800. A 10% max passive 2k from a modest 20k stat. So the Argonian passives are in no way OP despite their usefulness to niche builds :-)

Well technically the Quick to Mend passive is "OP" since the way it is calculated is all messed up. It gives you a straight +9% more healing taken, meaning that it works additively and not multiplicatively as percentages should. Let me try and explain the difference.

Here is how it is supposed to work: 40% increased by 9% = 43.6 (40 x 1.09)

Here is how it works in ESO: 40% increased by 9% = 49% (40 + 9)

In this fictional instance it gives more than double the increase than it should. Hope this helps explain why I believe it is a broken passive.

Maybe its the way zos wants it. They never mentioned this since release. It would become totaly useless if they change it.
Other classes cab get some nice healin to if they spec for it.

Maybe, maybe not, if you look at the patch notes for v2.1.2 it states:
"Fixed an issue where Battle Spirit was applying additively rather than multiplicatively to several abilities, including:"

So they are fixing certain instances where the percentages behave in ways they are not supposed to.

Manoekin

Saturn wrote: »

actosh wrote: »

Saturn wrote: »

Jar_Ek wrote: »

Just a note from an Argonian... It's great that you can max your healing, but 9% healing passive is roughly a 3 and 4 set piece bonus. If it were magicka that would be maybe 1600 to 1800. A 10% max passive 2k from a modest 20k stat. So the Argonian passives are in no way OP despite their usefulness to niche builds :-)

Well technically the Quick to Mend passive is "OP" since the way it is calculated is all messed up. It gives you a straight +9% more healing taken, meaning that it works additively and not multiplicatively as percentages should. Let me try and explain the difference.

Here is how it is supposed to work: 40% increased by 9% = 43.6 (40 x 1.09)

Here is how it works in ESO: 40% increased by 9% = 49% (40 + 9)

In this fictional instance it gives more than double the increase than it should. Hope this helps explain why I believe it is a broken passive.

Maybe its the way zos wants it. They never mentioned this since release. It would become totaly useless if they change it.
Other classes cab get some nice healin to if they spec for it.

Maybe, maybe not, if you look at the patch notes for v2.1.2 it states:
"Fixed an issue where Battle Spirit was applying additively rather than multiplicatively to several abilities, including:"

So they are fixing certain instances where the percentages behave in ways they are not supposed to.

One of those listed is the Quick to Mend passive, so if you do your math this patch and it isn't multiplicative you should report it. Someone said it wasn't in this thread.

Personofsecrets

Saturn wrote: »

actosh wrote: »

Saturn wrote: »

Jar_Ek wrote: »

Just a note from an Argonian... It's great that you can max your healing, but 9% healing passive is roughly a 3 and 4 set piece bonus. If it were magicka that would be maybe 1600 to 1800. A 10% max passive 2k from a modest 20k stat. So the Argonian passives are in no way OP despite their usefulness to niche builds :-)

Well technically the Quick to Mend passive is "OP" since the way it is calculated is all messed up. It gives you a straight +9% more healing taken, meaning that it works additively and not multiplicatively as percentages should. Let me try and explain the difference.

Here is how it is supposed to work: 40% increased by 9% = 43.6 (40 x 1.09)

Here is how it works in ESO: 40% increased by 9% = 49% (40 + 9)

In this fictional instance it gives more than double the increase than it should. Hope this helps explain why I believe it is a broken passive.

Maybe its the way zos wants it. They never mentioned this since release. It would become totaly useless if they change it.
Other classes cab get some nice healin to if they spec for it.

Maybe, maybe not, if you look at the patch notes for v2.1.2 it states:
"Fixed an issue where Battle Spirit was applying additively rather than multiplicatively to several abilities, including:"

So they are fixing certain instances where the percentages behave in ways they are not supposed to.

You already wrote that the healing received from the bonuses you are stacked ended up being soft capped. Isn't that how the IC debuff works? It soft caps healing and damage, right? This seems to be working as intended.

ThatNeonZebraAgain

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Saturn wrote: »

actosh wrote: »

Saturn wrote: »

Jar_Ek wrote: »

Just a note from an Argonian... It's great that you can max your healing, but 9% healing passive is roughly a 3 and 4 set piece bonus. If it were magicka that would be maybe 1600 to 1800. A 10% max passive 2k from a modest 20k stat. So the Argonian passives are in no way OP despite their usefulness to niche builds :-)

Well technically the Quick to Mend passive is "OP" since the way it is calculated is all messed up. It gives you a straight +9% more healing taken, meaning that it works additively and not multiplicatively as percentages should. Let me try and explain the difference.

Here is how it is supposed to work: 40% increased by 9% = 43.6 (40 x 1.09)

Here is how it works in ESO: 40% increased by 9% = 49% (40 + 9)

In this fictional instance it gives more than double the increase than it should. Hope this helps explain why I believe it is a broken passive.

Maybe its the way zos wants it. They never mentioned this since release. It would become totaly useless if they change it.
Other classes cab get some nice healin to if they spec for it.

Maybe, maybe not, if you look at the patch notes for v2.1.2 it states:
"Fixed an issue where Battle Spirit was applying additively rather than multiplicatively to several abilities, including:"

So they are fixing certain instances where the percentages behave in ways they are not supposed to.

You already wrote that the healing received from the bonuses you are stacked ended up being soft capped. Isn't that how the IC debuff works? It soft caps healing and damage, right? This seems to be working as intended.

Silly ZOS leaving in softcaps for secondary stats like healing received, but having no checks against massive weapon/spell damage numbers.

Saturn

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Saturn wrote: »

actosh wrote: »

Saturn wrote: »

Jar_Ek wrote: »

Just a note from an Argonian... It's great that you can max your healing, but 9% healing passive is roughly a 3 and 4 set piece bonus. If it were magicka that would be maybe 1600 to 1800. A 10% max passive 2k from a modest 20k stat. So the Argonian passives are in no way OP despite their usefulness to niche builds :-)

Well technically the Quick to Mend passive is "OP" since the way it is calculated is all messed up. It gives you a straight +9% more healing taken, meaning that it works additively and not multiplicatively as percentages should. Let me try and explain the difference.

Here is how it is supposed to work: 40% increased by 9% = 43.6 (40 x 1.09)

Here is how it works in ESO: 40% increased by 9% = 49% (40 + 9)

In this fictional instance it gives more than double the increase than it should. Hope this helps explain why I believe it is a broken passive.

Maybe its the way zos wants it. They never mentioned this since release. It would become totaly useless if they change it.
Other classes cab get some nice healin to if they spec for it.

Maybe, maybe not, if you look at the patch notes for v2.1.2 it states:
"Fixed an issue where Battle Spirit was applying additively rather than multiplicatively to several abilities, including:"

So they are fixing certain instances where the percentages behave in ways they are not supposed to.

You already wrote that the healing received from the bonuses you are stacked ended up being soft capped. Isn't that how the IC debuff works? It soft caps healing and damage, right? This seems to be working as intended.

When did I ever mention anything like that? And that is not how it works, lol, it's just a straight debuff to healing and damage by 50%.

Saturn

Manoekin wrote: »

Saturn wrote: »

actosh wrote: »

Saturn wrote: »

Jar_Ek wrote: »

Just a note from an Argonian... It's great that you can max your healing, but 9% healing passive is roughly a 3 and 4 set piece bonus. If it were magicka that would be maybe 1600 to 1800. A 10% max passive 2k from a modest 20k stat. So the Argonian passives are in no way OP despite their usefulness to niche builds :-)

Well technically the Quick to Mend passive is "OP" since the way it is calculated is all messed up. It gives you a straight +9% more healing taken, meaning that it works additively and not multiplicatively as percentages should. Let me try and explain the difference.

Here is how it is supposed to work: 40% increased by 9% = 43.6 (40 x 1.09)

Here is how it works in ESO: 40% increased by 9% = 49% (40 + 9)

In this fictional instance it gives more than double the increase than it should. Hope this helps explain why I believe it is a broken passive.

Maybe its the way zos wants it. They never mentioned this since release. It would become totaly useless if they change it.
Other classes cab get some nice healin to if they spec for it.

Maybe, maybe not, if you look at the patch notes for v2.1.2 it states:
"Fixed an issue where Battle Spirit was applying additively rather than multiplicatively to several abilities, including:"

So they are fixing certain instances where the percentages behave in ways they are not supposed to.

One of those listed is the Quick to Mend passive, so if you do your math this patch and it isn't multiplicative you should report it. Someone said it wasn't in this thread.

Actually the quote is specifically about the way Battle Spirit affects things, meaning with this change it shouldn't have changed the incorrectness with Quick to Mend. I will hop on the PTS shortly and give it a test though, just to ensure I haven't been talking nonsense this whole time, heh.

Personofsecrets

Saturn wrote: »

When did I ever mention anything like that? And that is not how it works, lol, it's just a straight debuff to healing and damage by 50%.

Saturn wrote: »

Tried Healer's Habit, made my Live toon's 77% go to 81.7%, with its 8% increased healing from the 5 pieces.
Tried Unassaible, made my Live toon's 77% go to 83.9%, with its 8% increased healing taken from 3 and 4 piece effects.

Holy smokes...

Saturn

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Saturn wrote: »

When did I ever mention anything like that? And that is not how it works, lol, it's just a straight debuff to healing and damage by 50%.

Saturn wrote: »

Tried Healer's Habit, made my Live toon's 77% go to 81.7%, with its 8% increased healing from the 5 pieces.
Tried Unassaible, made my Live toon's 77% go to 83.9%, with its 8% increased healing taken from 3 and 4 piece effects.

Holy smokes...

It would obviously be half in Cyrodiil with the debuff mind, however on my Argonian PTS toon it still does like 53%.

Saturn

Manoekin wrote: »

Saturn wrote: »

actosh wrote: »

Saturn wrote: »

Jar_Ek wrote: »

Just a note from an Argonian... It's great that you can max your healing, but 9% healing passive is roughly a 3 and 4 set piece bonus. If it were magicka that would be maybe 1600 to 1800. A 10% max passive 2k from a modest 20k stat. So the Argonian passives are in no way OP despite their usefulness to niche builds :-)

Well technically the Quick to Mend passive is "OP" since the way it is calculated is all messed up. It gives you a straight +9% more healing taken, meaning that it works additively and not multiplicatively as percentages should. Let me try and explain the difference.

Here is how it is supposed to work: 40% increased by 9% = 43.6 (40 x 1.09)

Here is how it works in ESO: 40% increased by 9% = 49% (40 + 9)

In this fictional instance it gives more than double the increase than it should. Hope this helps explain why I believe it is a broken passive.

Maybe its the way zos wants it. They never mentioned this since release. It would become totaly useless if they change it.
Other classes cab get some nice healin to if they spec for it.

Maybe, maybe not, if you look at the patch notes for v2.1.2 it states:
"Fixed an issue where Battle Spirit was applying additively rather than multiplicatively to several abilities, including:"

So they are fixing certain instances where the percentages behave in ways they are not supposed to.

One of those listed is the Quick to Mend passive, so if you do your math this patch and it isn't multiplicative you should report it. Someone said it wasn't in this thread.

Alright, got my proof that this is still very much a thing:

14266 / 15053 = 94.77%

Lord_Hev

Have you tried actually dueling someone? I'd wager you would run out of magic in about 20 seconds, while applying zero pressure on your opponent because your magic management and costs would be absolutely terrible.


I get that these big numbers while doing fall damage tests is alarming I'm sure. But in actual practice, this looks like a joke to me.


Do a video of you actually PvPing with this set-up.

Saturn

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Have you tried actually dueling someone? I'd wager you would run out of magic in about 20 seconds, while applying zero pressure on your opponent because your magic management and costs would be absolutely terrible.


I get that these big numbers while doing fall damage tests is alarming I'm sure. But in actual practice, this looks like a joke to me.


Do a video of you actually PvPing with this set-up.

I have done a few actually

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2BISFXkq9I
After the 7:20 mark contains footage of me duelling people on the PTS. Keep in mind I am not an expert PvPer and most of my gametime is spent on PvE stuff, though I do still enjoy PvPing.

Something I will like to point out is the fact that I don't actually run this setup to the extreme, yes, I can push the healing of dragon blood to over 90% on my Khajiit DK on Live, but on the setup I run, which has defense and offense (in form of sets chosen), I can get about 77%. Most people assume I run the exact setup, but they forget that this is a PTS toon and I am just trying to prove a point by stacking everything to the extreme. I get that a setup like this won't be optimal for PvP until I have 600 ish CPs, but that's not the whole idea of this post.

I am merely proving something is possible, similar to if I wanted to expose an exploit I would record how it was done so it could be fixed.

gibous

I think a lot of people have already pointed out that this is a novelty build simply to demonstrate how high certain things can be stacked. To answer OP's question, no it's not exploiting because you're doing everything within the intended mechanics of the game.

Thalmor-Nordmaster

189.4 is full unlock. to get that you will need to fix the flux capacitor and find some dilithium crystals

Emma_Overload

1) Not one single thing mentioned by the OP is an "exploit". Working the math is what theory-crafting is all about.

2) There is nothing "overpowered" about healing for the entire amount of your health. There are mobs in Veteran Dungeons and even some Craglorn Delves that can hit you for 20K or MORE in one shot.