what if damage shields didnt allow you to regen magicka while active

Joy_Division

SkylarkAU wrote: »

You guys kinda forget that the classic perma block classes (DK, Temp) both have excellent heal/sustain abilities even without block. Sorcs (the classic shield class) don't..

It's funny how qq and logic don't usually mix.

And sorcs kinda forget that they still slot a better heal than tempars and DKs get

Lucky28

Joy_Division wrote: »

SkylarkAU wrote: »

You guys kinda forget that the classic perma block classes (DK, Temp) both have excellent heal/sustain abilities even without block. Sorcs (the classic shield class) don't..

It's funny how qq and logic don't usually mix.

And sorcs kinda forget that they still slot a better heal than tempars and DKs get

Which is not class specific so yeah, no.

and at any rate. just yesterday i was in a bind and needed a heal bad so i used healing ward, and it popped on someone else.... guess who died, i did.

you would be right if it where a directed heal, but it's not.

Garion

As a sorc, I just want to say that this nerf (as well as the roll dodge nerf) is bad for us also. It arguably impacts us more, because our stsmina resource pool and regeneration is considerably smaller than that of your traditional stamina / tank build. Any good sorc (or mana user, but I say sorcs because this thread is most relevant to that class...) will be against this change as much as you are - so looking to punish us because of ZOS' heavy handed nerf is not exactly fair. We should be looking at ways we can improve game balance without the ridiculous nerfs to defence. Further nerfs to defensive abilities is a terrible idea.

Dracane

Joy_Division wrote: »

SkylarkAU wrote: »

You guys kinda forget that the classic perma block classes (DK, Temp) both have excellent heal/sustain abilities even without block. Sorcs (the classic shield class) don't..

It's funny how qq and logic don't usually mix.

And sorcs kinda forget that they still slot a better heal than tempars and DKs get

If it's a better heal, then get it. Everyone has access to it.
And btw, what's better: An instant heal that gets your health back to full when it crits, or a heal that takes 6 seconds to occure and can get destroyed by an enemy ? Don't want to protect healing ward, this ability is op.

But your argument is wrong. Templars have the best heal in the game by far.

Wing

well this discussion is going well ^_^

Draehl

The core issue is that regen is too high in PvP. Period. Not while shields/heals are being spammed. Not NBs spamming shadow cloak. Not while tanks are blocking. OP CC skills being used constantly. Medium builds dodging, etc. All these high cost skills/effects are still easily spammable with little regard given to efficiency or intelligent use. The actual strength of these effects are not the problem, their sustainability is.

Battle Spirit needs to be reduce all in-combat regen AND resource return (potion, power attacks, siphoning attacks, etc) by 30-50%

Dracane

Draehl wrote: »

The core issue is that regen is too high in PvP. Period. Not while shields/heals are being spammed. Not NBs spamming shadow cloak. Not while tanks are blocking. OP CC skills being used constantly. Medium builds dodging, etc. All these high cost skills/effects are still easily spammable with little regard given to efficiency or intelligent use. The actual strength of these effects are not the problem, their sustainability is.

Battle Spirit needs to be reduce all in-combat regen AND resource return (potion, power attacks, siphoning attacks, etc) by 30-50%

This would execute all players who don't build for regen. They barely have any regen now and would be dead if they did what you suggested. Reducing the strenght of regen drinks and certain... passives could help.

Vatter

i think thats not a bad idea. if they made it so there was 0 magicka regen while a bubble was up would that be the end of all these no stamina regen crying threads?

I'm all for trying it out.

Draehl

Dracane wrote: »

Draehl wrote: »

The core issue is that regen is too high in PvP. Period. Not while shields/heals are being spammed. Not NBs spamming shadow cloak. Not while tanks are blocking. OP CC skills being used constantly. Medium builds dodging, etc. All these high cost skills/effects are still easily spammable with little regard given to efficiency or intelligent use. The actual strength of these effects are not the problem, their sustainability is.

Battle Spirit needs to be reduce all in-combat regen AND resource return (potion, power attacks, siphoning attacks, etc) by 30-50%

This would execute all players who don't build for regen. They barely have any regen now and would be dead if they did what you suggested. Reducing the strenght of regen drinks and certain... passives could help.

TBH glass cannon (or dagger, as it were) builds I feel have more regen than they probably should. Sorcs & NBs are probably the worst offenders here, but stacking spell/weapon damage at the expense of everything else they still have much more longevity than such a focused character should. That's why the damage penalty with 2.1 had to be increased.

It would be far more appropriate to roll back many of the 2.1 changes (dodge, block, ball lightning, battle spirit affecting shields, etc.) and instead hit the core issue of regen- making players actually think not just about whether a skill might benefit them at a given moment, but rather if it benefits them enough to warrant the resource cost... It's not such a pill to swallow that burst builds can kill people so quickly at least with the knowledge that they're playing a one trick pony of a build that is OOM/OOS and can't carry on at full strength with the fight that follows. There would be a legit tradeoff for playing a one-dimensional burst build- sacrificing regen/cost reduction enchants, efficient skills, etc.

olsborg

The resource game should make a comeback, like it was in 1.2 etc. If you managed your resources best, you won.

Draehl

olsborg wrote: »

The resource game should make a comeback, like it was in 1.2 etc. If you managed your resources best, you won.

It shouldn't swing too far in either direction. Just that different playstyles have legit strengths and weaknesses. Currently having low resource regen isn't a true weakness for anyone. Dedicated burst builds should be strong, but with the caveat that if you fail to blow up your target you should be at a distinct disadvantage for the fight that follows. Likewise, slotting efficienct skills or building for sustain should also be viable in that you may continue on much longer than the burst build, but still not indefinitely.

Ryuho

Vatter wrote: »

i think thats not a bad idea. if they made it so there was 0 magicka regen while a bubble was up would that be the end of all these no stamina regen crying threads?

I'm all for trying it out.

Its good idea. But only for healing ward, u have 0 magicka regen for 6s, fair enough, healing ward may stay like it is, but make it more situational.. But 0 regen for all shields, its just sutpid imo.. As i wrote many times, problem with shieldstacking mechanism is healing ward..

Dracane

Draehl wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

The resource game should make a comeback, like it was in 1.2 etc. If you managed your resources best, you won.

It shouldn't swing too far in either direction. Just that difference playstyles have legit strengths and weaknesses. Currently having low resource regen isn't a legit weakness for anyone.

It is a weakness. I'm running a low regen build (not on purpose, it's just a result) and I run out of ressources very fast and I'm not wasting my Magicka, it still happens because recasting shields eats up my Magicka.

It's not that I'm unexperienced, I can manage it quite well most of the time. But in a real scenario, a sustained build will always outsustain me. Regen Builds win in the end if played right, I've seen it often when I was in a 1v1 guild. What do you have to fear, if you never run out of ressources ? Nothing, only mistakes will kill you and we all know, that with the recent update, mistakes won't kill you anymore thanks to the damage reduction.

Regen builds rule

Forestd16b14_ESO

Well I just wanna say some thing does have to be done about sheild stacking reguardless it be sorc DK or templars doing it when any player can stack like 5 or 6 and get 15K+ shields and tank 7 different players.\ something has to be done.

Draehl

Dracane wrote: »

Draehl wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

The resource game should make a comeback, like it was in 1.2 etc. If you managed your resources best, you won.

It shouldn't swing too far in either direction. Just that difference playstyles have legit strengths and weaknesses. Currently having low resource regen isn't a legit weakness for anyone.

What do you have to fear, if you never run out of ressources ? Nothing, only mistakes will kill you and we all know, that with the recent update, mistakes won't kill you anymore thanks to the damage reduction.

Right, and what I'm saying is let the burst builds continue like they are on live, but with everyone having lower regen bursty builds would ideally run out very quickly, with regen builds still eventually running out. I realize that is much easier said than done, but it's what is making heals/shields still so much stronger on PTS- that "mistake" factor you mention is no longer there, and it should be to make the game exciting.

It's really a tricky proposition to get burst damage, sustained damage, healers, hybrids, and tanks all in a good spot at the same time. I don't blame ZOS for not getting it right- I only blame them for not turning more "knobs" (they already have access to but are not utilizing) in order to properly tune their game. For the record I believe all serious MMOs needs an economist in charge of big picture balance philosophies such as the current topic- most devs are former programmers/artists that while fine in most cases probably aren't best suited to this particular portion of game balance.

Darnathian

Dracane wrote: »

Ludof wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

No, it's not fair. Block is supposed to totally mitigate 1 hit and prevent you from being CCed. Permablock is something for heavy armor tanks. Even if they don't block for a moment, they will not die
Damage shields neither negate nor protect you from CC. Light armor mage is insta dead without a damage shield, you can't just not use them.

Totally agree, no point to nerf the only defence sorcs have against anything.
It would be better if they increase the cost for the shield if recasted before it expires (applying the same nerf they did with dodge roll or Streak); hopefully this should stop Healing Ward spammers.

Healing ward is the issue.

Not only for Sorcerers, Magicka Nightblades as well and basically any Magicka build.

But healing ward is too much, I have insight why people complain about damage shields. Because healing ward is too strong.
Hardened Ward alone does nothing, it's quite laughable compared to what healing ward does.

Come on dracane. I have seen it as high as 18k. It does way more than nothing. There are sorcs from launch that refuse to play right now because how easy it is. Healing ward is a problem too but everyone has access to it and a lot use it. The sorc problem is hardened ward. Plain and simple

To all the others that keep defending zero stamina while blocking shame. There is no argument right now that sorcs rule. They are nerfing your escape a little. That's it. Nothing else is changing. Sorcs still rule. Anyone who denies that doesn't play PTS or does and wants to remain a god

And in most cases it is not because of skill. It's the Copied build. Congrats

Darnathian

Dracane wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Well would stop infi shield spammers who don't die even if attacked by 7 different players at once but maybe that be little to much...... maybe 30% less magicka regen.

Try doing this without healing ward. The first CC will kill you.
Permablockers don't die instantly when cced

And they don't kill either c who cares if they don't die?

Darnathian

danno8 wrote: »

Blazing Shield used to be that way. 0 magicka regeneration while the shield was active. Nobody used it because it was such a harsh penalty. I

Some will claim that it could be used as a counter to an incoming burst, but the fact is it was simply better to just block that one big hit and continue on your way.

I would support shields becoming far more expensive, so stacking them would be an expensive endeavor, but 0 magicka regeneration will just make them useless, and essentially a death sentence upon cast.

Welcome to being a tank. Everyone is all on board with the blocking nerf to harmless sponges but God forbid someone do pretty much the same to DPS builds.

The hypocrosy is astounding

Darnathian

Garion wrote: »

As a sorc, I just want to say that this nerf (as well as the roll dodge nerf) is bad for us also. It arguably impacts us more, because our stsmina resource pool and regeneration is considerably smaller than that of your traditional stamina / tank build. Any good sorc (or mana user, but I say sorcs because this thread is most relevant to that class...) will be against this change as much as you are - so looking to punish us because of ZOS' heavy handed nerf is not exactly fair. We should be looking at ways we can improve game balance without the ridiculous nerfs to defence. Further nerfs to defensive abilities is a terrible idea.

Sure now that this one goes through that widens the gap between DPS and tanks. Lock it in. No more attempts at balancing. Lol. You sorcs are amazing

Kupoking

used to be the case with blazing shield. ppl were still using it.

Wing

I would say as a light taste of what blocking has been dealt the following.

when you activate any damage shield your magicka tick is reset to 2 seconds.

Halfwitte

I for one think this is a fantastic idea and I believe this would make the game more fun and enjoyable. This change would be very near and dear to my heart, I don't exactly know why it would, but it would be so very close. Don't forget to nix magicka regen while healing as this too would greatly improve the quality of fun and quite possibly improve lag in Cyrodiil with less graphical effects of healing and shields firing off. Anything remotely close to the Gospel of Eric Wrobel's philosophy of fun has my vote!

#EricWrobel4President
"Bringing Fun back to America, one inexplicable nerf at a time!"

danno8

Personofsecrets wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

Blazing Shield used to be that way. 0 magicka regeneration while the shield was active. Nobody used it because it was such a harsh penalty. I

Some will claim that it could be used as a counter to an incoming burst, but the fact is it was simply better to just block that one big hit and continue on your way.

I would support shields becoming far more expensive, so stacking them would be an expensive endeavor, but 0 magicka regeneration will just make them useless, and essentially a death sentence upon cast.

This change is good for the long term health of the game. People will just have to change their ways of thinking about their play style.

Or just play a game with CD's instead of one with weird side-rules and conditions that are unintuitive and convoluted.

I think ZoS has done a terrible job of balancing magicka/stamina costs in relation to the strength of a skill. They may want to visit that area first before throwing in more cockeyed rule sets.

danno8

Darnathian wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

Blazing Shield used to be that way. 0 magicka regeneration while the shield was active. Nobody used it because it was such a harsh penalty. I

Some will claim that it could be used as a counter to an incoming burst, but the fact is it was simply better to just block that one big hit and continue on your way.

I would support shields becoming far more expensive, so stacking them would be an expensive endeavor, but 0 magicka regeneration will just make them useless, and essentially a death sentence upon cast.

Welcome to being a tank. Everyone is all on board with the blocking nerf to harmless sponges but God forbid someone do pretty much the same to DPS builds.

The hypocrosy is astounding

Who said I was on-board with the blocking nerf? I am currently rethinking my magicka healing tank Templar because the blocking nerf is going to kill that build very effectively.

danno8

houimetub17_ESO wrote: »

used to be the case with blazing shield. ppl were still using it.

You and I remember differently.

I am sure there were some people still using it. But most did not. And the consensus was that the lack of regen while it was up made it extremely cumbersome to use.

nordsavage

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/201148/an-idea-on-blocking-for-staff-wielders#latest Here is a solution that would give staff users a taste of what stamina builds face.

WolffenBloodseeker

nordsavage wrote: »

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/201148/an-idea-on-blocking-for-staff-wielders#latest Here is a solution that would give staff users a taste of what stamina builds face.

Actually this is very interesting..

Darlon

Darnathian wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Ludof wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

No, it's not fair. Block is supposed to totally mitigate 1 hit and prevent you from being CCed. Permablock is something for heavy armor tanks. Even if they don't block for a moment, they will not die
Damage shields neither negate nor protect you from CC. Light armor mage is insta dead without a damage shield, you can't just not use them.

Totally agree, no point to nerf the only defence sorcs have against anything.
It would be better if they increase the cost for the shield if recasted before it expires (applying the same nerf they did with dodge roll or Streak); hopefully this should stop Healing Ward spammers.

Healing ward is the issue.

Not only for Sorcerers, Magicka Nightblades as well and basically any Magicka build.

But healing ward is too much, I have insight why people complain about damage shields. Because healing ward is too strong.
Hardened Ward alone does nothing, it's quite laughable compared to what healing ward does.

Come on dracane. I have seen it as high as 18k.

Not in a pvp zone on the pts anymore... and that's what matters in the discussion here, so please stay to that...