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NB Summon Shade any good?

Morguloth
Morguloth
Newbie here, leveling my Nightblade, 37 atm and although my Shade summoning is only level 2 it just feels pretty useless in my rotation. Does Shade get good enough to be worth a slot on your ability bar, or is it a bunk pet? The dmg is pitiful for %15 less enemy dmg is meh. I know you can morph it up to 2 Shades, but is the dmg any good with 2 of them? Looks cool but feels like a useless ability, any thoughts?
  • lolzbuckets
    lolzbuckets
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    The Shadow Image morph is very useful in PvP. It creates a stationary shadow with a bow, and activating the ability a second time while the shadow is still up teleports you next to it. So...that's pretty strong. Well worth getting it up high enough to morph.

    But for PvE, it's pretty worthless. The damage is too low to matter, and that Maim isn't a strong enough debuff to justify it. It's pretty much just a utility spell.
  • Morguloth
    Morguloth
    The Shadow Image morph is very useful in PvP. It creates a stationary shadow with a bow, and activating the ability a second time while the shadow is still up teleports you next to it. So...that's pretty strong. Well worth getting it up high enough to morph.

    But for PvE, it's pretty worthless. The damage is too low to matter, and that Maim isn't a strong enough debuff to justify it. It's pretty much just a utility spell.

    Hmmm, good ideas, I'm probably going to PvP with him anyway so I might go with the Shadow Image. Plus I'd imagine a ranged Shade is more likely to actually hit something, my unmorphed melee Shade spends half his short life running around after his targets.

    I took Mass Hyteria already which gives a -15% to dmg from foes so I'm hoping that will stack with the -15% from the Shade to -30% total which against players in PvP or bosses would be pretty nice.

  • lolzbuckets
    lolzbuckets
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    I think they both apply the same debuff (maim), and therefore won't stack. Don't quote me on that, though.
  • chevalierknight
    chevalierknight
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    Im a magic nightblade and i have the one that summons two up 100% as it drain blockers and with all the magic resist i have mages cant burst me down


    And the guy saying its bad in pve does not pve or is bad at it 15% less damage on a boss is 15% less work for your healer and tank 15% of 10k is 1500 that that over a boss fight adds up
    Edited by chevalierknight on July 31, 2015 4:21PM
  • chevalierknight
    chevalierknight
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    Morguloth wrote: »
    The Shadow Image morph is very useful in PvP. It creates a stationary shadow with a bow, and activating the ability a second time while the shadow is still up teleports you next to it. So...that's pretty strong. Well worth getting it up high enough to morph.

    But for PvE, it's pretty worthless. The damage is too low to matter, and that Maim isn't a strong enough debuff to justify it. It's pretty much just a utility spell.

    Hmmm, good ideas, I'm probably going to PvP with him anyway so I might go with the Shadow Image. Plus I'd imagine a ranged Shade is more likely to actually hit something, my unmorphed melee Shade spends half his short life running around after his targets.

    I took Mass Hyteria already which gives a -15% to dmg from foes so I'm hoping that will stack with the -15% from the Shade to -30% total which against players in PvP or bosses would be pretty nice.

    No they dont stack allso fear is useless in pve dundage because all bosses and most mobs are amune to fear
  • lolzbuckets
    lolzbuckets
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    Um. No, I pve plenty. I say it's bad for pve because nightblades have better abilities that apply Maim and don't tickle while also taking up a slot on their skill bar. Also, as the OP pointed out, the melee variant has to chase after enemies, wasting precious dps. Each melee shadow only deals 4% of your max magics per hit. The ranged variant deals 6% per hit. Both morphs apply one stack of Maim.

    As OP pointed out, he already has hard CC that applies the same debuff. Why waste a second slot for a tiny bit of damage and a redundant debuff?
  • lolzbuckets
    lolzbuckets
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    Anyway, it isn't the DPS''s job to debuff the boss. The tank should be applying Maim.
  • lolzbuckets
    lolzbuckets
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    Also, since it deals more damage, the ranged morph will drain blockers better, and isn't mitigated by backing away...
  • lolzbuckets
    lolzbuckets
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    But you're clearly right: I must be bad at this theory crafting stuff. Also math. And PvE. You know, while we're making baseless accusations, I probably suck at reading, sex, and sandwich making as well.
  • chevalierknight
    chevalierknight
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    Anyway, it isn't the DPS''s job to debuff the boss. The tank should be applying Maim.

    Its the job of everybody to debuff the boss every build pvp or pve should have buffs and debuffs in less you like being a weak link in a dundgen good luck making guild mates thinking like that for saying that i think to little of your player skill to care

    And fear dosnt work vs elites and bosses and like i said melee shadows drop perma blockers stam


    And in pvp the fear debuff lasts 4 seconds the you cant reaplie for 6 seconds shadow lasts for 16+ and 4 seconds after
    Edited by chevalierknight on July 31, 2015 4:40PM
  • lolzbuckets
    lolzbuckets
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    I don't know who you do dungeons with, but redundant non-stacking debuffs are what we like to call "wasteful." If only one instance of a debuff can apply, and it's already part of someone's rotation, why would someone else also put it on their skill bar? Especially INSTEAD of a skill that does its job better, AND alongside another skill that does the same thing?

    You seem to be confused here. I did not say that debuffs were bad. I said that that skill is one of the worst possible ways to apply that particular one, and I listed my reasons. Further, that skill already has both of its functions being fulfilled by other skills this person is using. Explain to me why you think it's still deserves a place on his skill bar in light of that.
  • Kronosphere
    Kronosphere
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    Morguloth wrote: »
    Newbie here, leveling my Nightblade, 37 atm and although my Shade summoning is only level 2 it just feels pretty useless in my rotation. Does Shade get good enough to be worth a slot on your ability bar, or is it a bunk pet? The dmg is pitiful for %15 less enemy dmg is meh. I know you can morph it up to 2 Shades, but is the dmg any good with 2 of them? Looks cool but feels like a useless ability, any thoughts?

    i disagree a bit with the 2nd post. for pve you need 1 single target spell maybe an execute and 1 aoe. you wont get more damage by have 2 damage things(you cant use 2 dps abilities at the same time). since shades are a press and forget they add additional damage semi passively which is good and the 15% less damage is pretty good really.

    but it is true they are better for pvp.
    the ranged morph: really nice for a bow character. doesnt do great damage but its a nice damage debuff and free damage. good to teleport back to (cast, walk away, recast to port back to it leaving enemy behind) and use for bow kiting. and since it has good range its kinda like a mini turret sitting there helping you shoot things.

    twin shadow morph: this one summons 2 shades. they attack rather often and for me i combine this with rapid strikes from dual wield line which also strikes... rapidly to decimate the stamina of people who spam block. 2 shades attacking + 5 strikes per second from rapid strikes + light attack weaves all individually take a bit of stam to block. making blocking this extremely costly, before they know it they are dry and open to cc and high damage nb burst.
    ~House Indoril~
    Submit to the three, the spirits and thy lords.

  • chevalierknight
    chevalierknight
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    I don't know who you do dungeons with, but redundant non-stacking debuffs are what we like to call "wasteful." If only one instance of a debuff can apply, and it's already part of someone's rotation, why would someone else also put it on their skill bar? Especially INSTEAD of a skill that does its job better, AND alongside another skill that does the same thing?

    You seem to be confused here. I did not say that debuffs were bad. I said that that skill is one of the worst possible ways to apply that particular one, and I listed my reasons. Further, that skill already has both of its functions being fulfilled by other skills this person is using. Explain to me why you think it's still deserves a place on his skill bar in light of that.

    What part of fear does not work vs elites and bosses i see you only just started playing
    Edited by chevalierknight on July 31, 2015 4:42PM
  • lolzbuckets
    lolzbuckets
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    I never said a word about fear. I don't know why you think I'm confused about that.

    You seem to be operating under the assumption that "pretty useless" means "never worth using." No, you know what, I'm not going to bother explaining. I'm going to stand by what I said the first time: go with the ranged morph; it's handy sometimes, and then you will have it.

    I don't have to explain every word choice to every random person who calls me a noob because he doesn't understand words.
    Edited by lolzbuckets on July 31, 2015 4:49PM
  • lolzbuckets
    lolzbuckets
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    Kronosphere: that's fair. I might actually consider the ranged one useful for a melee build too, though, since in addition to a bit of dps and a debuff application, it lets you teleport out of combat for a bit of a head start to run away, or an extra second or two to heal or re-up buffs before Teleport Striking back into combat.
  • chevalierknight
    chevalierknight
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    I never said a word about fear. I don't know why you think I'm confused about that.

    You seem to be operating under the assumption that "pretty useless" means "never worth using." No, you know what, I'm not going to bother explaining. I'm going to stand by what I said the first time: go with the ranged morph; it's handy sometimes, and then you will have it.

    I don't have to explain every word choice to every random person who calls me a noob because he doesn't understand words.
    Lol quiter weak people i guess

    Also, since it deals more damage, the ranged morph will drain blockers better, and isn't mitigated by backing away...
    Lol no try doing some math two melee shades hitting faster drops stam faster then one hitting slow pure logic fail
    Um. No, I pve plenty. I say it's bad for pve because nightblades have better abilities that apply Maim and don't tickle while also taking up a slot on their skill bar. Also, as the OP pointed out, the melee variant has to chase after enemies, wasting precious dps. Each melee shadow only deals 4% of your max magics per hit. The ranged variant deals 6% per hit. Both morphs apply one stack of Maim.

    As OP pointed out, he already has hard CC that applies the same debuff. Why waste a second slot for a tiny bit of damage and a redundant debuff?
    Nightblades only have two abiltys that have maim so if you not talking about fear then what
    So you keep saying why would he use shade for the debuff when he has fear. Fear does NOT work in pve and in pvp you can only use it every 6 seconds shades 100% up time YOU SIR dont know what you're talking about
    Edited by chevalierknight on July 31, 2015 5:03PM
  • Resipsa131
    Resipsa131
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    I like it, I run a Magicka NB and the dual shades are decent for distracting enemies. It really depends on what else you have on your bar though.
  • Morguloth
    Morguloth
    Morguloth wrote: »
    The Shadow Image morph is very useful in PvP. It creates a stationary shadow with a bow, and activating the ability a second time while the shadow is still up teleports you next to it. So...that's pretty strong. Well worth getting it up high enough to morph.

    But for PvE, it's pretty worthless. The damage is too low to matter, and that Maim isn't a strong enough debuff to justify it. It's pretty much just a utility spell.

    Hmmm, good ideas, I'm probably going to PvP with him anyway so I might go with the Shadow Image. Plus I'd imagine a ranged Shade is more likely to actually hit something, my unmorphed melee Shade spends half his short life running around after his targets.

    I took Mass Hyteria already which gives a -15% to dmg from foes so I'm hoping that will stack with the -15% from the Shade to -30% total which against players in PvP or bosses would be pretty nice.

    No they dont stack allso fear is useless in pve dundage because all bosses and most mobs are amune to fear

    Bummer, so the -15% from Mass Hysteria (fear) and your Shade(s) don't stack? Seems weird they'd put 2 -15% dmg debuffs in one skill tree if they don't stack.
  • Morguloth
    Morguloth
    OK, a friend laid it out for me, tell me if this is wrong - Dark Shades (2 melee shades) blows chunks if you have a moving target, Shade Image (ranged shade) is great against moving targets but he says has a small range (less than 28m).

    So the 2 melee have *** AI and have a hard time hitting moving targets, but the ranged one is great against moving targets IF they are close to him since he's rooted lol. Both have *** dmg he says maxed out point wise.

    He said basically they are completely designed for NB tanks and nothing else. That makes sense to me (again, newbie so bear with me) since they offer -15% debuff to dmg and one has a teleport (boss is about to kill me get out of jail free card).

    Was kinda hoping to create a caster NB (kinda between a Warlock and a Shadowpriest) and since ESO has zero options for Necromancy I figured having a pair of shades would be the next best thing, oh well.
  • Kronosphere
    Kronosphere
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    Morguloth wrote: »
    OK, a friend laid it out for me, tell me if this is wrong - Dark Shades (2 melee shades) blows chunks if you have a moving target, Shade Image (ranged shade) is great against moving targets but he says has a small range (less than 28m).

    So the 2 melee have *** AI and have a hard time hitting moving targets, but the ranged one is great against moving targets IF they are close to him since he's rooted lol. Both have *** dmg he says maxed out point wise.

    He said basically they are completely designed for NB tanks and nothing else. That makes sense to me (again, newbie so bear with me) since they offer -15% debuff to dmg and one has a teleport (boss is about to kill me get out of jail free card).

    Was kinda hoping to create a caster NB (kinda between a Warlock and a Shadowpriest) and since ESO has zero options for Necromancy I figured having a pair of shades would be the next best thing, oh well.

    literally no identical buffs stack thats the whole point about this new buff system (major and minor)
    ~House Indoril~
    Submit to the three, the spirits and thy lords.

  • DeanTheCat
    DeanTheCat
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    The real benefit of Summon Shade has never been the damage or the damage debuff. Instead, the real benefit of the skill comes in draining stamina (Twin Shades) or the teleport (Shadow Image).

    Twin Shades is better in PvE and vs Blocking targets, because mobs don't exactly run around much, and as a fixed amount of stamina is consumed per hit, the extra attacks from the shades help in breaking down a permablock.

    Shadow Image however offers more utility, allowing you to play with whole groups of enemies like a cat with a mouse. A good example would be placing your shade on a keep wall, then jumping down and killing one of their number before teleporting back up onto the wall with the shade. Or you could drop your shade, then get a large number of enemies to chase you before teleporting back to your shade, essentially leading them on a wild goose chase.
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