IC & Tel´Var Explained

Hiero_Glyph

Farorin wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

A ganker(s) is player or group of players that preys on "easy" targets, most of the time the ganker(s) are of a higher level or having superior gear and numbers available to him/her.

Its one thing to assign your own definition to something. Its another to expect others to know what your definition is or to behave as if your personal definition is somehow universally acceptable. The universal definition of ganker is not 'someone that targets one person over and over again'. Its someone that attacks easy targets. PvEers who have no experience in PvP would fall within the definition as "easy" targets.

Lucky for them, a ganker has no way to tell a seasoned PVPer from a PVEer. So even then, I doubt they will be singled out as much as they beleive they will.

There will be people fighting everywhere, including your own allies defending you.

Skill rotations are quite telling actually. While a DPS build may be similar, how the skills are rotated and cancelled tells you a lot about who to avoid.

PBpsy

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Thunder wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

As you can see, at no point you MUST do pvp.

PVE player headed home with his bounty of stones get's jumped by 6 pale skinned basement dwellers decked out in the best gear the game has to offer and sporting several thousand champion points...

"I choose not to PVP!"

Poof! Dead & looted.

But... but... but Audigy said at no point you MUST do pvp... kinda felt like I didn't have much choice in the matter.

The only people having several thousand Champion Points are PvE players. PvP has an abysmal CP gain rate.

Actually the people that have the most CP are PVP oriented players. Most PVE oriented players hardly need to bother after 200 something.

ItsRejectz wrote: »

This is all good, but what are the stones for lol

Knowing ZOS this whole thing may be about well fitted gear sets with crappy procs on full heavy attacks that nobody is going to give a crap after one weak.

Audigy

ItsRejectz wrote: »

This is all good, but what are the stones for lol

You can buy crafting materials, and teleport stones with them. Anything from Runes to Ingots, Solvent ...

Syntse

Farorin wrote: »

Lucky for them, a ganker has no way to tell a seasoned PVPer from a PVEer. So even then, I doubt they will be singled out as much as they beleive they will.

Hopefully the new sets will have appeal to pvp players as well. Otherwise it is not hard to tell who is PvE and who is PvP player in IC. If player kills mobs he is most likely PvE player. IC will consist of PvE players trying to get stones for gear and PvP players seeking easy kills from PvE players. Or was there some real benefit for alliance war for having access and being in IC? What is the motivation for PvP player to go there other than stated above, except if some of the sets are really appealing for PvP player.

GaldorP

MaximusDargus wrote: »

I sincerely wish all those people who try to advocate STEALING and LEECHING on others work by promoting TV stones looting system to one day, after spending TIME at work EARNING money, step out of building and get smashed in head and robbed.

You wish people to be injured and robbed in real life because they say they like a PvP system in a video game? I hope you didn't mean that O_o

I've played the original Lineage II MMOG at launch and I know what it feels like to drop a piece of armor that took me 10 hours or more to earn when I died after being PKed by another player (and in L2 you could be killed by anyone anywhere outside of towns if they wanted to kill you). I was pretty much a carebear player in L2 and avoided PvP whenever I could, yet I still enjoyed the open PvP system and the excitement that came with it.

So I'm looking forward to testing the IC on the PTS. I think how bad the ganking will be depends a lot on the map design and how many escape routes to the safe spots there are.

According to this post by German Community Manager Kai Schober, each district has a small safe spot for your alliance from which you can directly get to your alliance's main base in the sewers. And if you let a monster kill you, you loose 10% of your stones from the death, but you can respawn in the safe spot of the district (or in the main base if you die to a monster in the sewers).

krees28b14_ESO

I like how everyone says "At no point do I have to PvP". Tell that to the three guys who are going to do nothing but destroy the pve players and take everything they worked for. Sorry, if the possibility of being killed by another player is present at anytime I consider that PvP not PvE. Once again, the best gear will come out of PvP and there is nothing Pve players can do about it other than get destroyed by the gank squad or the zerg everyone complains about. So save up a ton of gold to buy everything as it will only take one zerg ball to take everything you tried to farm from you and you give up and not go back.

God-eater

The most abundant source of TV stones will be us, the players. That's what will get farmed. Try to avoid it wll you want, but we are the target of choice in IC and everything will lean towards that.

Lava_Croft

PBpsy wrote: »

Actually the people that have the most CP are PVP oriented players. Most PVE oriented players hardly need to bother after 200 something.

You missed the point. PvE players tend to have more Champion Points because they gain them much faster in PvE, wether they need them or not.

Lava_Croft

Syntse wrote: »

Farorin wrote: »

Lucky for them, a ganker has no way to tell a seasoned PVPer from a PVEer. So even then, I doubt they will be singled out as much as they beleive they will.

Hopefully the new sets will have appeal to pvp players as well. Otherwise it is not hard to tell who is PvE and who is PvP player in IC. If player kills mobs he is most likely PvE player. IC will consist of PvE players trying to get stones for gear and PvP players seeking easy kills from PvE players. Or was there some real benefit for alliance war for having access and being in IC? What is the motivation for PvP player to go there other than stated above, except if some of the sets are really appealing for PvP player.

The reason people (PvP players) might want to go to the Imperial City instead of Cyrodiil's countryside is because it's a huge change of scenery and play style, apart from all the new stuff.

PBpsy

Lava_Croft wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

Actually the people that have the most CP are PVP oriented players. Most PVE oriented players hardly need to bother after 200 something.

You missed the point. PvE players tend to have more Champion Points because they gain them much faster in PvE, wether they need them or not.

You missed the point. PvP inclined players actually have a reason to continuously grind them. You think those guys in the various Cyro caves grind CP to do PVE faster? Maybe some do it for PVE however the heavy grinders do it to kick *** in PVP.

Lava_Croft

PBpsy wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

Actually the people that have the most CP are PVP oriented players. Most PVE oriented players hardly need to bother after 200 something.

You missed the point. PvE players tend to have more Champion Points because they gain them much faster in PvE, wether they need them or not.

You missed the point. PvP inclined players actually have a reason to continuously grind them. You think those guys in the various Cyro caves grind CP to do PVE faster? Maybe some do it for PVE however the heavy grinders do it to kick *** in PVP.

People grinding in CWC are not PvP players.

Rinmaethodain

Lava_Croft wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

Actually the people that have the most CP are PVP oriented players. Most PVE oriented players hardly need to bother after 200 something.

You missed the point. PvE players tend to have more Champion Points because they gain them much faster in PvE, wether they need them or not.

You missed the point. PvP inclined players actually have a reason to continuously grind them. You think those guys in the various Cyro caves grind CP to do PVE faster? Maybe some do it for PVE however the heavy grinders do it to kick *** in PVP.

People grinding in CWC are not PvP players.

Lol and you are so sure because?

PBpsy

Lava_Croft wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

Actually the people that have the most CP are PVP oriented players. Most PVE oriented players hardly need to bother after 200 something.

You missed the point. PvE players tend to have more Champion Points because they gain them much faster in PvE, wether they need them or not.

You missed the point. PvP inclined players actually have a reason to continuously grind them. You think those guys in the various Cyro caves grind CP to do PVE faster? Maybe some do it for PVE however the heavy grinders do it to kick *** in PVP.

People grinding in CWC are not PvP players.

Ha. You can continue to believe that. They are surely preparing themselves for the insurmountable PVE challenge.

ZOS_GinaBruno

ItsRejectz wrote: »

This is all good, but what are the stones for lol

We haven't gotten into the full details yet, but you turn in Tel Var Stones to get high-level items. Eric Wrobel will be discussing this a lot more this Friday at our QuakeCon panel for Imperial City (4:30pm CDT livestreamed on Twitch).

Lava_Croft

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

Actually the people that have the most CP are PVP oriented players. Most PVE oriented players hardly need to bother after 200 something.

You missed the point. PvE players tend to have more Champion Points because they gain them much faster in PvE, wether they need them or not.

You missed the point. PvP inclined players actually have a reason to continuously grind them. You think those guys in the various Cyro caves grind CP to do PVE faster? Maybe some do it for PVE however the heavy grinders do it to kick *** in PVP.

People grinding in CWC are not PvP players.

Lol and you are so sure because?

Because if you are a PvP player, you play PvP, you don't grind Goblins in a cave. The people spending their days grinding in a cave think they are PvP players, but actually they are just PvE scrubs.

PBpsy

Lava_Croft wrote: »

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

Actually the people that have the most CP are PVP oriented players. Most PVE oriented players hardly need to bother after 200 something.

You missed the point. PvE players tend to have more Champion Points because they gain them much faster in PvE, wether they need them or not.

You missed the point. PvP inclined players actually have a reason to continuously grind them. You think those guys in the various Cyro caves grind CP to do PVE faster? Maybe some do it for PVE however the heavy grinders do it to kick *** in PVP.

People grinding in CWC are not PvP players.

Lol and you are so sure because?

Because if you are a PvP player, you play PvP, you don't grind Goblins in a cave. The people spending their days grinding in a cave think they are PvP players, but actually they are just PvE scrubs.

Really? You are going to use the "No true PVPer" line?

As you said normal end game PVE gives a fair amount of EXP and CP gain is reasonably good and better that normal PVP CP gain. There is hardly any reason for a PVE oriented player to do CWC.Doing something like DSA,trials and dungeons is more than enough. So no, those guys are not true PVE players they are true PVP scrubs that need a CP advantage to "compete".

Xendyn

Ok serious question.
Has anyone picked up on how a healer is going to be able to get TV stones? If we have to depend on killing blows, that could be a problem. Otherwise seems like we'll be depending on the dribs and dabs we get from a group.
I'm talking about out in the city, not the boxes from dailies and such.

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Syntse wrote: »

Farorin wrote: »

Lucky for them, a ganker has no way to tell a seasoned PVPer from a PVEer. So even then, I doubt they will be singled out as much as they beleive they will.

Hopefully the new sets will have appeal to pvp players as well. Otherwise it is not hard to tell who is PvE and who is PvP player in IC. If player kills mobs he is most likely PvE player. IC will consist of PvE players trying to get stones for gear and PvP players seeking easy kills from PvE players. Or was there some real benefit for alliance war for having access and being in IC? What is the motivation for PvP player to go there other than stated above, except if some of the sets are really appealing for PvP player.

The reason people (PvP players) might want to go to the Imperial City instead of Cyrodiil's countryside is because it's a huge change of scenery and play style, apart from all the new stuff.

Why is why the entire loot system is unnecessary. True pvp'ers don't need loot to enjoy fighting enemy players, it is the fight itself that is the fun. The only type of player that benefit from this system is the griefer who's main enjoyment is not the fight but the knowledge that he ruined anothers enjoyment.

Darkness fall didn't have this stupid system and it was a magnet for pve/pvp cooperation and good fights for years and years in daoc. With a loot system the entire social bonus IC could have given the community is lost.

Audigy

Xendyn wrote: »

Ok serious question.
Has anyone picked up on how a healer is going to be able to get TV stones? If we have to depend on killing blows, that could be a problem. Otherwise seems like we'll be depending on the dribs and dabs we get from a group.
I'm talking about out in the city, not the boxes from dailies and such.

Hi,

Kai said something about this in the German Forum.

ZOS_KaiSchober wrote: »

Gruppenlose Heiler müssen - wie im "normalen" PvE auch - ihren Beitrag zum Kampf leisten, egal ob mit Heilung oder Schaden. Mal eben pusten oder das Monster böse anschauen, wird nicht reichen.

If you dont have a Group as a healer, then PVE will work just like it always did, you Need to contribute to the fight. Either by healing or damage, to just look at the monster or push it gently, wont work

The PVP situation might still change, as based on Eric it requires the "final blow". This however, is sure something that the PTS will solve.

Xendyn

Audigy wrote: »

Xendyn wrote: »

Ok serious question.
Has anyone picked up on how a healer is going to be able to get TV stones? If we have to depend on killing blows, that could be a problem. Otherwise seems like we'll be depending on the dribs and dabs we get from a group.
I'm talking about out in the city, not the boxes from dailies and such.

Hi,

Kai said something about this in the German Forum.

ZOS_KaiSchober wrote: »

Gruppenlose Heiler müssen - wie im "normalen" PvE auch - ihren Beitrag zum Kampf leisten, egal ob mit Heilung oder Schaden. Mal eben pusten oder das Monster böse anschauen, wird nicht reichen.

If you dont have a Group as a healer, then PVE will work just like it always did, you Need to contribute to the fight. Either by healing or damage, to just look at the monster or push it gently, wont work

The PVP situation might still change, as based on Eric it requires the "final blow". This however, is sure something that the PTS will solve.

ok Thx. Have to add that to the testing list.

TequilaFire

Thunder wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

As you can see, at no point you MUST do pvp.

PVE player headed home with his bounty of stones get's jumped by 6 pale skinned basement dwellers decked out in the best gear the game has to offer and sporting several thousand champion points...

"I choose not to PVP!"

Poof! Dead & looted.

But... but... but Audigy said at no point you MUST do pvp... kinda felt like I didn't have much choice in the matter.

Actually wouldn't a PvE player tend to be more "pale skinned"?
After all they spend more time in dungeons.

Contraptions

I don't like what I see so far, but I'll reserve final judgment when I get more details.

I also have a question about the "multiplier" part of this system. Does it only apply to PVE kills? Or both PVP and PVE kills? So if A has 100 stones and B has 100 stones, and A kills B, does A get 100 X2= 200 stones for a total of 300? Or is it just a simple transfer without any modifiers whatsoever?

WhiteCoatSyndrome

Audigy wrote: »

The only concern that I have is the current setup of how someone can get credit for a (pvp) kill. As stated, someone must perform the killing blow, this however - can be a big nuisance and should be reconsidered. A healer, doesn't do killing blows and it could annoy a group a lot, if a single person comes along and just waits for the last second to deliver said blow / same of course works the other way around.

^This. I'm a casual PvPer, as such I do nothing BUT heal. So from my standpoint, I'm either grouped and never going to get a chance at stones, or I solo and get ganked instantly by more hardcore players. I don't mind sticking to support but I don't care for being punished for it.

Edgemoor

Audigy wrote: »

As you can see, at no point you MUST do pvp. You can just keep on killing monsters and do your quests without any demand to compete in pvp. Be aware however, other players will be around and so you might need to adjust your "hunting" philosophy to not charge into a group of NPC´s while a group of enemy players is just around the corner.

This paragraph contradicts itself almost entirely. If you want/need TV stones you must go into a PvP zone, and it's not realistic to go into a PvP zone and expect not to PvP, which by definition is competitive and has all the activities associated with it (ganking, zergs etc).

If you are a PvE player and don't want to PvP then the only question that needs asking is can you live without the majority of IC?

Part of that question will be answered this Friday when what the stones will be good to buy is discussed. But anything good is likely to be sold at premium prices, and given the guild trader system in place is likely to be problematic. A huge grind of existing content is likely to get gold to buy.

If you are unsure about IC then the best way to figure it out is to participate in testing on the PTS when it becomes available. But the PTS environment can be very different to live depending on the players there, and is also subject to change by ZOS.

However, this is almost exclusively a PvP content update, and PvE players need to decide if they can work with that. There seems to be no realistic alternatives to progression given by ZOS; it's IC or nothing.

I am a PvE player I am more disappointed that ZOS has made IC the only means of progression, with no viable alternatives available. Whether IC is implement as is or watered down won't make any difference; IC still won't appeal to me as it is fundamentally and primarily PvP.

Averya_Teira

Farorin wrote: »

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

...and cause a severe drop in the number of people who will participate in pvp at all.

Why would someone who likes to PvP but does not like IC stop PvP-ing outside of IC?

Those who will leave is the casual pvp'ers. The guys that go to Cyrodiil, join a pug and have some random fun for a few hours. Many of them will feel left out and behind by the IC and overall just go find another game.

The Stone system will also make sure that PvE'ers will never go to IC thus reducing the overall pvp population.

The only type of player that will increase is the griefers, which are not real pvp'ers (I can explain the difference if you want). And they always destroy the community they infest.

My wife is a casual PVP player, I doubt she will leave just because she lost a few times and lost a few stones. Quit because you lose rather than try get better for next time?That just seems like being a bad loser to me.

Probably won't say that when it's her fifth time loosing 12 000 stones though.

Audigy

Edgemoor wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

As you can see, at no point you MUST do pvp. You can just keep on killing monsters and do your quests without any demand to compete in pvp. Be aware however, other players will be around and so you might need to adjust your "hunting" philosophy to not charge into a group of NPC´s while a group of enemy players is just around the corner.

This paragraph contradicts itself almost entirely. If you want/need TV stones you must go into a PvP zone, and it's not realistic to go into a PvP zone and expect not to PvP, which by definition is competitive and has all the activities associated with it (ganking, zergs etc).

If you are a PvE player and don't want to PvP then the only question that needs asking is can you live without the majority of IC?

Part of that question will be answered this Friday when what the stones will be good to buy is discussed. But anything good is likely to be sold at premium prices, and given the guild trader system in place is likely to be problematic. A huge grind of existing content is likely to get gold to buy.

If you are unsure about IC then the best way to figure it out is to participate in testing on the PTS when it becomes available. But the PTS environment can be very different to live depending on the players there, and is also subject to change by ZOS.

However, this is almost exclusively a PvP content update, and PvE players need to decide if they can work with that. There seems to be no realistic alternatives to progression given by ZOS; it's IC or nothing.

I am a PvE player I am more disappointed that ZOS has made IC the only means of progression, with no viable alternatives available. Whether IC is implement as is or watered down won't make any difference; IC still won't appeal to me as it is fundamentally and primarily PvP.

I did play on a pvp server at WOW for three years. Never did I have to compete in pvp if I didn't want to. You should be able to quest, kill mobs or attack other players as you prefer.
Being on a pvp server or in a pvp zone does not mean you must pvp, its your choice if you do.

This whole thing is especially interesting for stealth characters. Its a lot of fun to sneak through the enemy lines

Besides that, every content patch so far was about PVE, mostly dungeons and raids. I believe its about time that those who want to pvp get something as well.

Arato

Farorin wrote: »

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

...and cause a severe drop in the number of people who will participate in pvp at all.

Why would someone who likes to PvP but does not like IC stop PvP-ing outside of IC?

Those who will leave is the casual pvp'ers. The guys that go to Cyrodiil, join a pug and have some random fun for a few hours. Many of them will feel left out and behind by the IC and overall just go find another game.

The Stone system will also make sure that PvE'ers will never go to IC thus reducing the overall pvp population.

The only type of player that will increase is the griefers, which are not real pvp'ers (I can explain the difference if you want). And they always destroy the community they infest.

My wife is a casual PVP player, I doubt she will leave just because she lost a few times and lost a few stones. Quit because you lose rather than try get better for next time?That just seems like being a bad loser to me.

Depends on how much you lose. Because the system encourages saving up stones for a long time to get the multipliers, you could be grinding for hours to get a few thousand stones, and then lose them all in under 10s being ganked by some macro spammer. Why would you want to continue playing after that?

Arato

Audigy wrote: »

Edgemoor wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

As you can see, at no point you MUST do pvp. You can just keep on killing monsters and do your quests without any demand to compete in pvp. Be aware however, other players will be around and so you might need to adjust your "hunting" philosophy to not charge into a group of NPC´s while a group of enemy players is just around the corner.

This paragraph contradicts itself almost entirely. If you want/need TV stones you must go into a PvP zone, and it's not realistic to go into a PvP zone and expect not to PvP, which by definition is competitive and has all the activities associated with it (ganking, zergs etc).

If you are a PvE player and don't want to PvP then the only question that needs asking is can you live without the majority of IC?

Part of that question will be answered this Friday when what the stones will be good to buy is discussed. But anything good is likely to be sold at premium prices, and given the guild trader system in place is likely to be problematic. A huge grind of existing content is likely to get gold to buy.

If you are unsure about IC then the best way to figure it out is to participate in testing on the PTS when it becomes available. But the PTS environment can be very different to live depending on the players there, and is also subject to change by ZOS.

However, this is almost exclusively a PvP content update, and PvE players need to decide if they can work with that. There seems to be no realistic alternatives to progression given by ZOS; it's IC or nothing.

I am a PvE player I am more disappointed that ZOS has made IC the only means of progression, with no viable alternatives available. Whether IC is implement as is or watered down won't make any difference; IC still won't appeal to me as it is fundamentally and primarily PvP.

I did play on a pvp server at WOW for three years. Never did I have to compete in pvp if I didn't want to. You should be able to quest, kill mobs or attack other players as you prefer.
Being on a pvp server or in a pvp zone does not mean you must pvp, its your choice if you do.

This whole thing is especially interesting for stealth characters. Its a lot of fun to sneak through the enemy lines

Besides that, every content patch so far was about PVE, mostly dungeons and raids. I believe its about time that those who want to pvp get something as well.

It's god awful if you play a PVE tank though. No groups want to take under leveled tanks, so you have to get VR16 and you have to get VR16 gear, which means you have to do PVP in order to get your gear at least, if not to get your VR's,, which is HORRIBLE on a tank, because you do almost no damage. It may take a PVP'er longer to kill you but when they do, they'll be at almost full health, every time. There's really no place for tanks in PVP.

Rinmaethodain

Arato wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

Edgemoor wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

As you can see, at no point you MUST do pvp. You can just keep on killing monsters and do your quests without any demand to compete in pvp. Be aware however, other players will be around and so you might need to adjust your "hunting" philosophy to not charge into a group of NPC´s while a group of enemy players is just around the corner.

This paragraph contradicts itself almost entirely. If you want/need TV stones you must go into a PvP zone, and it's not realistic to go into a PvP zone and expect not to PvP, which by definition is competitive and has all the activities associated with it (ganking, zergs etc).

If you are a PvE player and don't want to PvP then the only question that needs asking is can you live without the majority of IC?

Part of that question will be answered this Friday when what the stones will be good to buy is discussed. But anything good is likely to be sold at premium prices, and given the guild trader system in place is likely to be problematic. A huge grind of existing content is likely to get gold to buy.

If you are unsure about IC then the best way to figure it out is to participate in testing on the PTS when it becomes available. But the PTS environment can be very different to live depending on the players there, and is also subject to change by ZOS.

However, this is almost exclusively a PvP content update, and PvE players need to decide if they can work with that. There seems to be no realistic alternatives to progression given by ZOS; it's IC or nothing.

I am a PvE player I am more disappointed that ZOS has made IC the only means of progression, with no viable alternatives available. Whether IC is implement as is or watered down won't make any difference; IC still won't appeal to me as it is fundamentally and primarily PvP.

I did play on a pvp server at WOW for three years. Never did I have to compete in pvp if I didn't want to. You should be able to quest, kill mobs or attack other players as you prefer.
Being on a pvp server or in a pvp zone does not mean you must pvp, its your choice if you do.

This whole thing is especially interesting for stealth characters. Its a lot of fun to sneak through the enemy lines

Besides that, every content patch so far was about PVE, mostly dungeons and raids. I believe its about time that those who want to pvp get something as well.

It's god awful if you play a PVE tank though. No groups want to take under leveled tanks, so you have to get VR16 and you have to get VR16 gear, which means you have to do PVP in order to get your gear at least, if not to get your VR's,, which is HORRIBLE on a tank, because you do almost no damage. It may take a PVP'er longer to kill you but when they do, they'll be at almost full health, every time. There's really no place for tanks in PVP.

LOL, and yet ZOS wants to nerf every tank in game by the mean of "0 stamina regen while blocking" because of fake cries and whines of PVPers claiming that tanks are being OP in pvp and not being able to distinguish real tank from "dps with taunt" or "dps with a sword and board"

KanedaSyndrome

Newer generations of gamers can't handle actual risk in games. It's a pity, they don't know what they're missing.