Some things to make Cadwell's Silver & Gold more bearable.

MornaBaine

3. Just open up both factions at once. Scale all quests to level and be done with it.

This is actually my favorite of the ideas I presented. It might be the most difficult one for them to do but it would be absolutely awesome. Even if the zones were still leveled you should totally be able to go to any zone just as you can now in the 1-50 preogression of your own faction. For instance, my guild uses Evermore in Bangkorai for a lot of our roleplay activities because even though it is a 30s zone any level of character can come in there and not be attacked and interact with characters across the level range in roleplay. Giving us the same ability at VR would be absolutely amazing and would open up a huge amount of currently wasted potential from the RP community's standpoint. It'd be like gifting us with new content. And remember ZoS us weirdo roleplayers are the ones who keep our subscriptions and log in regularly even if we're NOT doing game content in order to keep up with our friends.

Gidorick

MornaBaine wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

No one's looking for them to be removed... we just don't want to be forced to do them.

personally, I would like them to be a more meaningful part of the story....

And they could be but this would require new quests, which they apparently weren't either willing or able to do. If you experienced the other factions via quests FOR your faction I would be so freaking jazzed to do those!

Not necessarily NEW quests just a few tweaks to some of the main quests. I need to update my Cadwells Redux concept (http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/185967/cadwell-s-redux-concept-to-fix-silver-gold-freetamriel/p1) to include the idea that while we start out in one faction, we are really a hero of Tamriel. This should enable us to help each faction and then choose our alliance (stay loyal or defect) at the end of the story.

I know it'll never happen. I'm just dreaming.

MornaBaine

Gidorick wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

No one's looking for them to be removed... we just don't want to be forced to do them.

personally, I would like them to be a more meaningful part of the story....

And they could be but this would require new quests, which they apparently weren't either willing or able to do. If you experienced the other factions via quests FOR your faction I would be so freaking jazzed to do those!

Not necessarily NEW quests just a few tweaks to some of the main quests. I need to update my Cadwells Redux concept (http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/185967/cadwell-s-redux-concept-to-fix-silver-gold-freetamriel/p1) to include the idea that while we start out in one faction, we are really a hero of Tamriel. This should enable us to help each faction and then choose our alliance (stay loyal or defect) at the end of the story.

I know it'll never happen. I'm just dreaming.

It's still an awesome dream man. Imma go ahead and dream it with you.

GreySix

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

Averya_Teira wrote: »

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

JesterH wrote: »

Silver and gold isnt so bad. I like being able to see all sides of the war

Same, I just imagine myself as a spy sent by my alliance leader to learn how the enemy operates, à la Jon Snow being sent to spy on the Wildlings.

Except you actually help the other alliances instead of undermining them from within as a spy would do ... which makes no f-ing sense.

A saboteur would specifically undermine, a spy could be there to just observe them.

... while conducting missions to further the enemy's objectives?

Not buying it. Have to make some awfully tortured cheetah-flips in logic for the spy angle.

Lord_Draevan

GreySix wrote: »

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

Averya_Teira wrote: »

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

JesterH wrote: »

Silver and gold isnt so bad. I like being able to see all sides of the war

Same, I just imagine myself as a spy sent by my alliance leader to learn how the enemy operates, à la Jon Snow being sent to spy on the Wildlings.

Except you actually help the other alliances instead of undermining them from within as a spy would do ... which makes no f-ing sense.

A saboteur would specifically undermine, a spy could be there to just observe them.

... while conducting missions to further the enemy's objectives?

Not buying it. Have to make some awfully tortured cheetah-flips in logic for the spy angle.

As long as the objectives aren't "directly undermine the faction you're actually a part of", it's not that big a stretch at all if you consider what real infiltrators have done throughout history. Even then, as long as it's not going to completely cripple your faction it might be worth it in the long run.

GreySix

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

GreySix wrote: »

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

Averya_Teira wrote: »

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

JesterH wrote: »

Silver and gold isnt so bad. I like being able to see all sides of the war

Same, I just imagine myself as a spy sent by my alliance leader to learn how the enemy operates, à la Jon Snow being sent to spy on the Wildlings.

Except you actually help the other alliances instead of undermining them from within as a spy would do ... which makes no f-ing sense.

A saboteur would specifically undermine, a spy could be there to just observe them.

... while conducting missions to further the enemy's objectives?

Not buying it. Have to make some awfully tortured cheetah-flips in logic for the spy angle.

As long as the objectives aren't "directly undermine the faction you're working for", it's not that big a stretch at all.

Well, I suppose your suspension of disbelief is greater than mine, but the nature of the work I did before retiring gets in the way a bit. But that's neither her nor there. Silver and Gold remain a lazy way out of continuing the game with new content. It's recycled content, plain and simple.

Lord_Draevan

GreySix wrote: »

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

GreySix wrote: »

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

Averya_Teira wrote: »

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

JesterH wrote: »

Silver and gold isnt so bad. I like being able to see all sides of the war

Same, I just imagine myself as a spy sent by my alliance leader to learn how the enemy operates, à la Jon Snow being sent to spy on the Wildlings.

Except you actually help the other alliances instead of undermining them from within as a spy would do ... which makes no f-ing sense.

A saboteur would specifically undermine, a spy could be there to just observe them.

... while conducting missions to further the enemy's objectives?

Not buying it. Have to make some awfully tortured cheetah-flips in logic for the spy angle.

As long as the objectives aren't "directly undermine the faction you're working for", it's not that big a stretch at all.

Well, I suppose your suspension of disbelief is greater than mine, but the nature of the work I did before retiring gets in the way a bit. But that's neither her nor there. Silver and Gold remain a lazy way out of continuing the game with new content. It's recycled content, plain and simple.

Don't get me wrong, I agree Silver and Gold is bollocks, but since it ain't going anywhere might as well try to explain it :P

MornaBaine

GreySix wrote: »

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

GreySix wrote: »

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

Averya_Teira wrote: »

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

JesterH wrote: »

Silver and gold isnt so bad. I like being able to see all sides of the war

Same, I just imagine myself as a spy sent by my alliance leader to learn how the enemy operates, à la Jon Snow being sent to spy on the Wildlings.

Except you actually help the other alliances instead of undermining them from within as a spy would do ... which makes no f-ing sense.

A saboteur would specifically undermine, a spy could be there to just observe them.

... while conducting missions to further the enemy's objectives?

Not buying it. Have to make some awfully tortured cheetah-flips in logic for the spy angle.

As long as the objectives aren't "directly undermine the faction you're working for", it's not that big a stretch at all.

Well, I suppose your suspension of disbelief is greater than mine, but the nature of the work I did before retiring gets in the way a bit. But that's neither her nor there. Silver and Gold remain a lazy way out of continuing the game with new content. It's recycled content, plain and simple.

I don't think anyone here in this thread has disputed that. LOL But since we know ZoS isn't going to be getting rid of it or replacing it with something better any time soon I thought it might be worthwhile to look at ways it might be improved and make it a little less hateful.

GreySix

Okay, I appreciate the spirit of the effort. Unfortunately, don't think it will be sufficient to bring my wife back into cooperative play with me.

It's a real shame the developers didn't use a bit more imagination.

Here is but one idea, and it would have been relatively simple to implement.

tinythinker

Not sure why some people are so bothered by the basic premise that silver/gold allows you to see things from another point of view to get beyond the divisions that threaten Tamriel. Not only would it be a huge undertaking to rewrite/record the dialogue to be a spy, it still makes no sense because in each Alliance you end up being the reason it doesn't fall apart. In each case the faction would fall without you.

So you end up saving Ayrenn, the Silvenar/Green Lady, and making sure there is a new Mane (you even see what would happen had you not been there to set things right, with the Pact and Covenant invading the Dominion). Not the best outcome if you are just a spy or saboteur for EP/DC. Same for the other two.

Hammerfell would have been out of the war after being overrun by undead, the Orcs would have betrayed Emeric and marched on Wayrest, and the rest of High Rock would have been conquered by Reachman and Imperials. But you stopped all of that, AD/EP double agent.

And of course, the DC plant managed to foil the Convenant conquest of Stonefalls, the AD sneak managed to foil the Dominion invasion of Shadowfen, and then both manage to save the life of the Skald King so that the Pact could be formally united at Skuldafn.

I am all for making gold/silver more rewarding/relevant/meaningful, but that's a dead end.

MornaBaine

GreySix wrote: »

Okay, I appreciate the spirit of the effort. Unfortunately, don't think it will be sufficient to bring my wife back into cooperative play with me.

It's a real shame the developers didn't use a bit more imagination.

Here is but one idea, and it would have been relatively simple to implement.

And there we are in complete agreement. This game desperately needed another year in development before launch. So much was unfinished and even more was just simply done badly in the name of haste and $$.

GreySix

When Silver and Gold feel too much like this ...



... it's probably time to take a break for a while. ... like playing an alt.

Gidorick

MornaBaine wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

No one's looking for them to be removed... we just don't want to be forced to do them.

personally, I would like them to be a more meaningful part of the story....

And they could be but this would require new quests, which they apparently weren't either willing or able to do. If you experienced the other factions via quests FOR your faction I would be so freaking jazzed to do those!

Not necessarily NEW quests just a few tweaks to some of the main quests. I need to update my Cadwells Redux concept (http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/185967/cadwell-s-redux-concept-to-fix-silver-gold-freetamriel/p1) to include the idea that while we start out in one faction, we are really a hero of Tamriel. This should enable us to help each faction and then choose our alliance (stay loyal or defect) at the end of the story.

I know it'll never happen. I'm just dreaming.

It's still an awesome dream man. Imma go ahead and dream it with you.

Awesome! Pass the Skooma.

MornaBaine

Gidorick wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

No one's looking for them to be removed... we just don't want to be forced to do them.

personally, I would like them to be a more meaningful part of the story....

And they could be but this would require new quests, which they apparently weren't either willing or able to do. If you experienced the other factions via quests FOR your faction I would be so freaking jazzed to do those!

Not necessarily NEW quests just a few tweaks to some of the main quests. I need to update my Cadwells Redux concept (http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/185967/cadwell-s-redux-concept-to-fix-silver-gold-freetamriel/p1) to include the idea that while we start out in one faction, we are really a hero of Tamriel. This should enable us to help each faction and then choose our alliance (stay loyal or defect) at the end of the story.

I know it'll never happen. I'm just dreaming.

It's still an awesome dream man. Imma go ahead and dream it with you.

Awesome! Pass the Skooma.

Duuuude.... /passes skooma hookah Like, can we order pizza?

Preyfar

tinythinker wrote: »

Not sure why some people are so bothered by the basic premise that silver/gold allows you to see things from another point of view...

The main reason is it kind of defeats the point of rolling a character from another faction. It's going to be the exact same three campaigns... just in a different order. It will never change no matter which faction you're in except for the other, and that makes having multi-faction characters less appealing.

WolffenBloodseeker

VilhelmValhalla4 wrote: »

Better yet, revamp the whole thing so that all provinces are open from the start (with different modes of travel to reach each one). Instead of being forced into an alliance, you'd pick your starting zone and from there the quests and enemies level with you. To take part in PvP, you'd enlist at one of the Cyrodiil war camps and be bound to that faction (you could still explore as you want). Everyone already ranked in PvP would retain their status and be bound to the faction they already fight for.

This, so much this, the game would be so much better if you started as an "adventurer" and then once at lvl 10 you could choose you faction for pvp and be bound to it (still being able to quest, explore and do dungeons in other faction zones if you want)

It would work great with the current storylines since you are not really part of a faction on the start, having just escaped coldharbour you "misteriously" appears on the shores of a faction and from there you make your way and end up involving yourself in the faction

tinythinker

Preyfar wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

Not sure why some people are so bothered by the basic premise that silver/gold allows you to see things from another point of view...

The main reason is it kind of defeats the point of rolling a character from another faction. It's going to be the exact same three campaigns... just in a different order. It will never change no matter which faction you're in except for the other, and that makes having multi-faction characters less appealing.

You misunderstand. I am talking about why people are upset about "helping the enemy" by doing silver/gold.

Preyfar

tinythinker wrote: »

You misunderstand. I am talking about why people are upset about "helping the enemy" by doing silver/gold.

Fair point. I figured Cadwell's were like a pocket-reality where you saw thing from the enemy's POV, but not actually helping them. But the campaigns themselves are just kind of painful...

tinythinker

Preyfar wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

You misunderstand. I am talking about why people are upset about "helping the enemy" by doing silver/gold.

Fair point. I figured Cadwell's were like a pocket-reality where you saw thing from the enemy's POV, but not actually helping them. But the campaigns themselves are just kind of painful...

I like them personally. Well, I like the EP and DC storylines. AD is a slog. But if they added new content for each Alliance after you beat the main story for it, and gave decent rewards for silver/gold, it would be better.

Muizer

For reasons I cannot fathom, ZoS have not built in enough xp redundancy. Meaning you pretty much need to do all the content to get near the level cap and you may still end up having to grind to the finish line. They could have left the level cap at 10 or so. Adding content at top level would just mean choice for people how to reach the cap. Sure, you lose some progression per character, but it would make playing alts a lot more appealing.

Preyfar

tinythinker wrote: »

I like them personally. Well, I like the EP and DC storylines. AD is a slog. But if they added new content for each Alliance after you beat the main story for it, and gave decent rewards for silver/gold, it would be better.

Same. They just need unique content to make them stand apart. And I love the AD storyline... but I'm not a fan of the cliffs and landscapes so much except for Reaper's March.

Morvul

Xendyn wrote: »

Divinius wrote: »

I actually love Cadwell's Silver and Gold, and would be very upset if they removed them.

However, I completely understand why some people hate feeling forced to level through through areas, and very much agree that there should be other equally viable options for progressing through the VR levels.

This^
Nothing wrong with the zones themselves, it's being forced through in a linear fashion with no other options.
We need more variety in how to get to endgame. A choice so it's not exactly the same thing every single time.

quoting for truth!

I personally loved catwell's Silver and Gold the first play through! genuinly loved the option to see the other alliances content on my main char.

What I don't like, is that Silver and Gold content is part of the "primary leveling path" - I would prefer it as optional content.
In my "ideal version of ESO" , one would level 1-50 normally - and then the whole game would open up: players could immediately partake in endgame group content without first having to somehow gain 10+ veteran levels. Or if they don't feel like doing group content, they could do cadwells as an alternative (instead of the current prerequisite).

The easiest way of archieving this situation, in my opinion, is to simply cut out veteran levels 1-10 from the game. That way after leveling 1-50 and turning vet1, players could go to lower craglorn to experience vet 1 and 2 content. vet 1 players could also imideately partake in the "old" dungeons scaled to vet2 (currently vet12). The current vet 13-14 content (upper craglor, city of ash) would be turned into vet 4 content: slightly abouve a fresh vet1 player - but not out of reach either. The planned vet16 contend would be released as vet 6 contend instead...

In paralell, Cadwells silver could be rescaled to vet1-2, and cadwells gold to 3-4. Then also please introduce Cadwells platinum (your own alliance rescaled to vet 5-6) .

Since all of that cadwell stuff is then optional content to be run paralell to endgame group content - insead of the current prerequisite content needing to be run to actually reach endgame - difficulty can also be readjusted up to the tough times it presented closer to launch. This way dedicated solo players can be kept entertained with challenging content.


TLDR: cut out 10 vet levels from the game: everything currently vet 12 turns into vet 2, everything currently vet 14 turns into vet4. Have cadwell's silver and gold as a parrallell/alternative vet 1-4 activity to vet 1-4 craglorn and dungeons.

Vizier

Totally agree.

They should let us choose which faction to do first and then implement a Level minimum to move on to the next. That way we could grind the zone how we want and move on. After one time through I'd much rather grind mobs to level than doing the stupid busy-work quests over and over.

Calandrae

I so much agree. I have finally managed to level my main to VR14 (took over a year because I got overwhelmed with endless questing at "wrong" alliances and quit the game for months). Now I have a VR1 sitting at the beginning of the same thing, and I just can't bring myself to play her. Not for the guild's sake, not for my own amusement.

I can understand that creating new content would require a lot of work (too much?!). But why on earth can't I travel to Ebonhart instead of the Dominion to start the vet leveling? I hate AD zones, they feel suffocating and neverending. When I got my main to Gold and EP, I was so burned out I just ran through quests without reading them or listening the dialogue at all. I would be so happy if I could start at EP with this alt and actually enjoy the content more.

But as for now, I'm not going to level the alt because I just can't go through the same linear Silver and Gold stuff again. I will rather just wander around with my VR14, do group stuff and craft - and abandon the alt at VR1.

Enodoc

Morvul wrote: »

quoting for truth!

I personally loved catwell's Silver and Gold the first play through! genuinly loved the option to see the other alliances content on my main char.

What I don't like, is that Silver and Gold content is part of the "primary leveling path" - I would prefer it as optional content.
In my "ideal version of ESO" , one would level 1-50 normally - and then the whole game would open up: players could immediately partake in endgame group content without first having to somehow gain 10+ veteran levels. Or if they don't feel like doing group content, they could do cadwells as an alternative (instead of the current prerequisite).

The easiest way of archieving this situation, in my opinion, is to simply cut out veteran levels 1-10 from the game. That way after leveling 1-50 and turning vet1, players could go to lower craglorn to experience vet 1 and 2 content. vet 1 players could also imideately partake in the "old" dungeons scaled to vet2 (currently vet12). The current vet 13-14 content (upper craglor, city of ash) would be turned into vet 4 content: slightly abouve a fresh vet1 player - but not out of reach either. The planned vet16 contend would be released as vet 6 contend instead...

In paralell, Cadwells silver could be rescaled to vet1-2, and cadwells gold to 3-4. Then also please introduce Cadwells platinum (your own alliance rescaled to vet 5-6) .

Since all of that cadwell stuff is then optional content to be run paralell to endgame group content - insead of the current prerequisite content needing to be run to actually reach endgame - difficulty can also be readjusted up to the tough times it presented closer to launch. This way dedicated solo players can be kept entertained with challenging content.


TLDR: cut out 10 vet levels from the game: everything currently vet 12 turns into vet 2, everything currently vet 14 turns into vet4. Have cadwell's silver and gold as a parrallell/alternative vet 1-4 activity to vet 1-4 craglorn and dungeons.

I am hoping the planned removal of Vet Ranks results in something like this.

F7sus4

MornaBaine wrote: »

Some things to make Cadwell's Silver & Gold more bearable

The actual best thing is to start with yourself.

TheShadowScout

Preyfar wrote: »

I figured Cadwell's were like a pocket-reality where you saw thing from the enemy's POV, but not actually helping them. But the campaigns themselves are just kind of painful...

^this^

The way I hear cadwell tell it, the "experience the other factions" are more "visits to an alternate reality" kind of things then something that actually happens. Almost like a dream, except that you get loot!
Though from a fluff point of view... yes, they can sometimes be painful, especially when you are someone who likes to immerse themselves in their characters... sometimes it feels more like a bad dream then... (still gonna do them, over and over again, but those are the trials of an altaholic... )

spoqster

My preferred solution would be to remove the vet ranks so that 50 is max level and all of Cadwells zones are level 50. Also silver and gold should be unlocked at the same time and silver should not be a prerequisite for gold.

That way the extra content will feel like a bonus rather than a burden and people will enjoy it more.

ADarklore

Interesting... AD being my first foray into ESO and I have to say I am absolutely LOVING IT! Being a nature lover, I love being out in the forests and I can understand the Bosmer's PACT with nature... isn't it like any other religion? Look at history, there are numerous examples of how people would remain faithful to their religion while allowing their own family or others to suffer. I also love helping Queen Ayrenn and that entire main AD questline. Why do High Elves think they are superior? Look around at the world today and ask why some in one race feel superior to others, same difference. Tamriel is very much like our own world, perhaps people don't want to see that and wish to escape to a 'fantasy realm' and not have our own reality appear- but I like how Tamriel reflects a lot of our own world and forces us to ask questions of ourselves as players and our own morals.

I also love questing and will have have no problems with running Silver and Gold in whatever order they're given. While I can see how some may not like having the option to choose which alliance they enter first via Silver, I also have to ask what 'End Game' content they are rushing to reach? Currently there is limited end game content, as others have noted, Silver and Gold were supposed to be 'end game' but aren't really... but beyond that, there really isn't a whole lot of true end game content- as far as I've heard- except PvP and many of us have no interest in PvP. This is why I plan to enjoy all the questing and storylines- without rushing- and hopefully by the time I get through both Silver and Gold and the other limited options, they may have added more 'end game' content.

WolfgangArmadeus

You beat the game, of course the only thing left to do is stuff you have already done... Buy a new game...