BEST IDEA FOR CS GAP PROBLEM (THX to Rune_Relic)

washlov

Sithisvoid wrote: »

Here's a best idea for ya:

There is no CS gap problem.

Need more CP? GRIND IT OUT like everyone else!

CP will slowly kill the game
chinafarmers will dominate the game
yea thats elder scrolls

Emma_Overload

rdbrown1987 wrote: »

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Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Here's a best idea for ya:

There is no CS gap problem.

Need more CP? GRIND IT OUT like everyone else!

This is just a silly answer makes me think that you're either a single/unemployed or a child,

1, not everyone has no life and can sit playing the game 24/7 like some people so with no restrictions people are going to fall behind.

2, me personally I don't want to log into the game grind the same npcs over and over again to be classed as viable to do what I want within the game.

3, grinding is the only way to gain cp atm(subject to changes in the future patches).

4, new players to the game come in will soon have to get to vr16 plus catch the no lifers up with cp at this current rate it's just impossible so they'll just get fed up and leave.

5, If you've got nothing productive to add to a thread then please don't comment as you just make yourself look silly as this a thread about how we as a community can think of good ideas to improve the game.

have a nice day and ttfn

Wow, so you think you're adding a lot to this discussion by calling people "silly" and "no-lifers"?

The simple fact is this: You can't win the game unless you're willing to PLAY the game. All your arguments are just a bunch of lame excuses for why you think lazy, uncommitted players should enjoy the same character progression as players who work hard and pay their dues.

Rhakon

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

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rdbrown1987 wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Here's a best idea for ya:

There is no CS gap problem.

Need more CP? GRIND IT OUT like everyone else!

This is just a silly answer makes me think that you're either a single/unemployed or a child,

1, not everyone has no life and can sit playing the game 24/7 like some people so with no restrictions people are going to fall behind.

2, me personally I don't want to log into the game grind the same npcs over and over again to be classed as viable to do what I want within the game.

3, grinding is the only way to gain cp atm(subject to changes in the future patches).

4, new players to the game come in will soon have to get to vr16 plus catch the no lifers up with cp at this current rate it's just impossible so they'll just get fed up and leave.

5, If you've got nothing productive to add to a thread then please don't comment as you just make yourself look silly as this a thread about how we as a community can think of good ideas to improve the game.

have a nice day and ttfn

Wow, so you think you're adding a lot to this discussion by calling people "silly" and "no-lifers"?

The simple fact is this: You can't win the game unless you're willing to PLAY the game. All your arguments are just a bunch of lame excuses for why you think lazy, uncommitted players should enjoy the same character progression as players who work hard and pay their dues.

Thats what we talk about... we want to PLAY the game!
Some of us have limited time to spend ingame, and want not to farm/work this precious free time.
Because farming is what brakes and to keep away from PLAYING in this wonderful game.
The gap is growing and growing.
This destroys every competition.
Competition is one big deciding reason to play a game, if this does not exist a big part of the playerbase
is excluded, because in games players want to have a showdown with fair circumstances.

Nebthet78

Frankly, I think the easiest and quickest thing ZOS should do about the CP "problem" is remove the effects of CP system from Cyrodiil and any future PVP areas. This way, everyone is pretty much on an equal playing field and only their playstyle, type of armor and skills will have any effect on the battlefield.

However, you can still gain CP from the XP you earn there, and you can spend those points in the system to be used in Trials, and Vet Dungeons and the PVE zones as the number of CP a player has really only effects that player and not any one else.

Acrolas

Don't worry, ZeniMax is coming out with a CP Machine that lets you gain CP without even breaking a sweat.
Dang, look at all that CP she's gaining. No need to put any actual effort into it.

Nebthet78

Acrolas wrote: »

I was going to respond to the image you posted. But it would have been very naughty and I would have been given a time out.

Rune_Relic

Play longer = stronger ? lmfao.
Play longer = more experienced. So you should be better anyway.
If you need a crutch to help you win (more stamina, magicka, health and all the passive bnouses on top) too then its a L2P issue.
All you are doing is convincing everyone you wouldn't stand a chance on a level playing field.

The difference with my suggestion is I still give some benefit to grinders and unlimited progression.
The bonus you get is more passives to choose from.
This doesn't make you more POWERFUL it makes you more VERSATILE.

That's is the difference between a Vertical and a Horizontal progression system
Both give you endless progressions...only one gives you an I win button.

How many people on here are whining.... more vet levels....all my gold mats are wasted..my gear is useless now.
Just another example of a problem that can be removed with horizontal progression.
Its the difference between lots of new armour sets...or V14 vs V16 armour sets.
The armour sets let you find the perfect gear for your playstyle....the V16 to V14 grind is just an I win button that everyone MUST do or be uncompetitive in PVP or Tials.

Elloa

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

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rdbrown1987 wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Here's a best idea for ya:

There is no CS gap problem.

Need more CP? GRIND IT OUT like everyone else!

This is just a silly answer makes me think that you're either a single/unemployed or a child,

1, not everyone has no life and can sit playing the game 24/7 like some people so with no restrictions people are going to fall behind.

2, me personally I don't want to log into the game grind the same npcs over and over again to be classed as viable to do what I want within the game.

3, grinding is the only way to gain cp atm(subject to changes in the future patches).

4, new players to the game come in will soon have to get to vr16 plus catch the no lifers up with cp at this current rate it's just impossible so they'll just get fed up and leave.

5, If you've got nothing productive to add to a thread then please don't comment as you just make yourself look silly as this a thread about how we as a community can think of good ideas to improve the game.

have a nice day and ttfn

Wow, so you think you're adding a lot to this discussion by calling people "silly" and "no-lifers"?

The simple fact is this: You can't win the game unless you're willing to PLAY the game. All your arguments are just a bunch of lame excuses for why you think lazy, uncommitted players should enjoy the same character progression as players who work hard and pay their dues.

I'm very happy to see more skilled players enjoying more challenging content and being able to show off their skill an dthe mastery of their character.
Farming Champion point is not showing off skills and mastery of the game.

The problem with Champion point is that it give a never ending progression creating a huge gap between players. if they weren't leaderboard and PVP, we could not care about it. But MMORPG is also a lot about competition between players, and a healthy competition need to be based on fairness, and allow anyone to have a chance.
With grinding mechanics, you remove that chance to the majority of players and give an icomensurable advantage to players that are very fast and have lot of time.

Tankqull

Nebthet78 wrote: »

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Acrolas wrote: »

I was going to respond to the image you posted. But it would have been very naughty and I would have been given a time out.

well pictures can tell more than words ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9C88Ydagh0Q

andsnake125

How about CP are just disabled in any new small scale upcoming pvp content? Most of Cyrodiil battles are massive anyway and it is designed that way. Running around in small group is just the only way to have some small scale pvp because we dont have another option, and i believe thats the main reason we can spot the huge difference in CP. If they disable the CP system when you are playing in a new small scale pvp content then everything should be just fine.

Faulgor

I wish we could get a /lurk in here from @ZOS_RichLambert ...

phairdon

Take CP out of pvp altogether as I'm assuming this is where the problem lies.

F7sus4

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

There is no CS gap problem.

Exactly. There only lazy butts that want to have everything for free.

Also, once again - this (link).

azoriangaming

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

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rdbrown1987 wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Here's a best idea for ya:

There is no CS gap problem.

Need more CP? GRIND IT OUT like everyone else!

This is just a silly answer makes me think that you're either a single/unemployed or a child,

1, not everyone has no life and can sit playing the game 24/7 like some people so with no restrictions people are going to fall behind.

2, me personally I don't want to log into the game grind the same npcs over and over again to be classed as viable to do what I want within the game.

3, grinding is the only way to gain cp atm(subject to changes in the future patches).

4, new players to the game come in will soon have to get to vr16 plus catch the no lifers up with cp at this current rate it's just impossible so they'll just get fed up and leave.

5, If you've got nothing productive to add to a thread then please don't comment as you just make yourself look silly as this a thread about how we as a community can think of good ideas to improve the game.

have a nice day and ttfn

Wow, so you think you're adding a lot to this discussion by calling people "silly" and "no-lifers"?

The simple fact is this: You can't win the game unless you're willing to PLAY the game. All your arguments are just a bunch of lame excuses for why you think lazy, uncommitted players should enjoy the same character progression as players who work hard and pay their dues.

lol my play time is a massive I just refuse to grind zombies which requires no skill whatsoever but obviously i've not put enough time and effort into the with game over 13800 achievement points on my main over 100 days played time and that's just on my main I've got several toons.

I'm looking at this from a logical point of view for the community and the games longevity and clearly your looking at it from a selfish point of view so our conversation is over as you just simply can't input into this thread.

azoriangaming

Elloa wrote: »

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Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

rdbrown1987 wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Here's a best idea for ya:

There is no CS gap problem.

Need more CP? GRIND IT OUT like everyone else!

This is just a silly answer makes me think that you're either a single/unemployed or a child,

1, not everyone has no life and can sit playing the game 24/7 like some people so with no restrictions people are going to fall behind.

2, me personally I don't want to log into the game grind the same npcs over and over again to be classed as viable to do what I want within the game.

3, grinding is the only way to gain cp atm(subject to changes in the future patches).

4, new players to the game come in will soon have to get to vr16 plus catch the no lifers up with cp at this current rate it's just impossible so they'll just get fed up and leave.

5, If you've got nothing productive to add to a thread then please don't comment as you just make yourself look silly as this a thread about how we as a community can think of good ideas to improve the game.

have a nice day and ttfn

Wow, so you think you're adding a lot to this discussion by calling people "silly" and "no-lifers"?

The simple fact is this: You can't win the game unless you're willing to PLAY the game. All your arguments are just a bunch of lame excuses for why you think lazy, uncommitted players should enjoy the same character progression as players who work hard and pay their dues.

I'm very happy to see more skilled players enjoying more challenging content and being able to show off their skill an dthe mastery of their character.
Farming Champion point is not showing off skills and mastery of the game.

The problem with Champion point is that it give a never ending progression creating a huge gap between players. if they weren't leaderboard and PVP, we could not care about it. But MMORPG is also a lot about competition between players, and a healthy competition need to be based on fairness, and allow anyone to have a chance.
With grinding mechanics, you remove that chance to the majority of players and give an icomensurable advantage to players that are very fast and have lot of time.

Agrees with this 100%

spoqster

Brilliant idea! That would turn the vertical Champion System into a horizontal progression system - as it should be. I like it!

spoqster

MaximusDargus wrote: »

There is no "CS gap problem".

There is "players want to have everything the moment they start game" problem. Its COMMON SENSE and OBVIOUS thing that if someone spends MORE time in eso he will be STRONGER throught any means game provides.

If you complain that someone is stronger just because he plays longer, and you want be as good as him without even putting any work into game... its at least silly

What you are describing is bad game design. Very, very bad game design. Spending more time in the game should make YOU, the player, better, not your character.

Just imagine a game like basketball, only that the more you play it, the hoop gets bigger, the three pointer line gets smaller and your boots grow springs that allow you to jump higher. You would be able to play better without actually playing better, without actually improving your skill.

danno8

CP system should:

-have a strong increasing xp requirement per level, starting at 100k and increasing by 2k every level. So at lvl 100 you would need 300k, 200 you need 500k, 300 you need 700k. This effectively puts 3600 way out of reach for anyone (at lvl 1000 you would need 2.1 million per level, 4.1 million per level at 2000), which is what we want. An even stronger diminishing return could be 2k per level + 100 (2000, 2100, 2200, 2300 etc.)

-bonuses need to provide flat bonuses, not % bonuses. % bonuses have a tendency to get out of control. So for instance Mighty gives 0-200 weapon damage, not 0-25% physical damage.

-passive bonuses need to be looked at, some are way too strong.

The point is to provide tiny bonuses that when added up make a difference but by themselves are nearly imperceptible, while at the same time making it so new players are not in a position that they can never hope to be caught up, or at least in the same league.

Domander

I do not like this idea, one of the reasons for the champion system is to further customize your character, you can't do that with one of each. It also doesn't let someone put 50 in one and 50 in another etc.

It's really fine as it is I think

LadyDestiny

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Here's a best idea for ya:

There is no CS gap problem.

Need more CP? GRIND IT OUT like everyone else!

Yeah I can't understand what all these new players think they need and should catch up? Catch up to what? Someone thats been playing for over a year? Makes no sense because if they finish leveling from vr 1 to vr14, they will have obtained the same amount of champion points that I had when I hit vr14. There is no catching up to do, they just need to grind out their character just like any other vet has. This makes me laugh everytime I see a thread about this. If they go to any other mmo like WoW, SWToR, Lotro etc., and try to tell that to some vet players who put years into their game, they would be a laughing stock. We live in the "I wants it nowz" generation

Robotmafia

Rhakon wrote: »

This Idea deserves an extra post!

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Rune_Relic wrote: »

They don't need to remove it and replace it with something else with 6 months of work.
All they need to do is add a CHAMPION BAR with 3 slots.
1 Warrior passive can be loaded.
1 Thief passive can be loaded.
1 Mage passive can be loaded.

Now it doesn't matter how many CP you have as you can only use 3 passive out of the 36.

People can grind away to their hearts content.
Someone with 300 CP will be just as powerful as anyone with 3600 CP..except they wont have 36 passive skills to choose from.

The stam/mag/health from each CP has to be nerfed though.

No power creep.
No power gap.
No gated content.
Endless progression
No gated endgame
Forced Build diversity.

from Washlov thx too!

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washlov wrote: »

sample

Warrior/The Lord/Heavy Armor Focus: Increases your Armor by 13% while wearing 5 or more pieces of heavy armor.

Thief/The Lover/Mooncalf: Increases your Stamina Recovery by 25%.

Mage/The Ritual/Piercing: Increases the amount of Armor your physical attacks ignore by 25%.


sample 2

Warrior/The Steed/Medium Armor Focus: Increases your Armor by 13% when a Medium Armor set of 5 or more pieces is equipped.

Thief/The Tower/Warlord: Reduces the Stamina cost of spells and abilities by 15.8%.

Mage/The Ritual/Precise Strikes: Increases the critical damage of your physical attacks by 25%.


these are two stamina builds but completely different
it would make the CS experimental and make the chars different
it would make the boring linear system where everybody get the same passives interesting and would make it meaningful

well its a nice idea but not developed... so I have to grind 3600 cp to get all passives but can only use 3? that would make most of the CP useless... I mean a big motivation behind the CP system is a gradual development of your char... with playing he almost endlessly becomes a little stronger...

I understand the gap issue and that it will create problems but personally I love the fact that no matter what I do in game, its gradually making me stronger...

im sure eventually they will just close the gap by giving CPs away or what ever... but limiting it this much kinda sucks imo

danno8

Domander wrote: »

I do not like this idea, one of the reasons for the champion system is to further customize your character, you can't do that with one of each. It also doesn't let someone put 50 in one and 50 in another etc.

It's really fine as it is I think

As time goes on it will be less and less "customized" and more and more "just have all the passives maxed out". His suggestion makes it so that it forces choices, which usually leads to more customization (although admittedly it sometimes leads to sameness if certain builds are flat out stronger compared to others).

I personally still think strong diminishing returns is the simplest way to fix the power creep, and force people to think about where they are putting those precious points when they start getting really hard to get.

LadyDestiny

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

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Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Here's a best idea for ya:

There is no CS gap problem.

Need more CP? GRIND IT OUT like everyone else!

A position as short-sighted as ZOS. You should work for them.

What about new players coming on board 1 year after the CP system went live. They should have to wait for a year or more to enjoy competitive PVP for the crime of being new?

Typical selfish thinking. It doesn't immediately affect me personally therefor, there is no problem.

Save your "insights" I've heard it all before. Nobody running the OCD grind treadmill will admit there is a problem.

It defeats their whole "grind out an unfair advantage over noobs" ego trip.

This is hardly selfish thinking. It's the way mmo's have always worked, unless you want to buy that instant level 100 token like ftp's do. What IS selfish? A new player thinking they only need to grind for a week and yet be on par with a VR14 and not have to work for it.

Robotmafia

LadyDestiny wrote: »

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AlienDiplomat wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Here's a best idea for ya:

There is no CS gap problem.

Need more CP? GRIND IT OUT like everyone else!

A position as short-sighted as ZOS. You should work for them.

What about new players coming on board 1 year after the CP system went live. They should have to wait for a year or more to enjoy competitive PVP for the crime of being new?

Typical selfish thinking. It doesn't immediately affect me personally therefor, there is no problem.

Save your "insights" I've heard it all before. Nobody running the OCD grind treadmill will admit there is a problem.

It defeats their whole "grind out an unfair advantage over noobs" ego trip.

This is hardly selfish thinking. It's the way mmo's have always worked, unless you want to buy that instant level 100 token like ftp's do. What IS selfish? A new player thinking they only need to grind for a week and yet be on par with a VR14 and not have to work for it.

agreed... play ftp games and buy ur instant maxed out char if you don't like it

JD2013

Solution for CP gap?

Work as hard at it as those who have been in the game longer. Simple.

Now, I am no fan of CP's, however I do not have loads of time to grind those points out, and so I am never going to be as powerful as those who do.

Does it both me? Not in the slightest. Why does it bother people so much? If you enter an MMO one year later you can't expect to be on the same tier as those who have been playing a long time. That is simply not how life works.

danno8

LadyDestiny wrote: »

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Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Here's a best idea for ya:

There is no CS gap problem.

Need more CP? GRIND IT OUT like everyone else!

Yeah I can't understand what all these new players think they need and should catch up? Catch up to what? Someone thats been playing for over a year? Makes no sense because if they finish leveling from vr 1 to vr14, they will have obtained the same amount of champion points that I had when I hit vr14. There is no catching up to do, they just need to grind out their character just like any other vet has. This makes me laugh everytime I see a thread about this. If they go to any other mmo like WoW, SWToR, Lotro etc., and try to tell that to some vet players who put years into their game, they would be a laughing stock. We live in the "I wants it nowz" generation

I have never played WoW, but are you telling me it will take 10 years of grinding to be at the same level as players who have been there since the beginning? Or 3 years for SWTOR, or 8 years for LotRO? It doesn't, and no one would ever start playing those games if that was the requirement.

But that is exactly how ESO will be. Want to be viable in end-game content balanced for 1000 CP? See you in 2 years. Want to not get insta-killed in PvP since everyone else has 25% more damage and take 25% less damage than you (not to mention a whole boatload of strong passives)? See you in 2 years.

Only thing is, in 2 years you will be at 1000 CP, and all the old-timers will be at 2000 CP . So you will never ever catch up. Fun.

Cherryblossom

I think the issue is the ability to catch up, new players theoretically have to grind as long as Grinder have until now to catch them up to this point, but in the same breath the Grinders have now also been grinding so are still the same distance ahead.

My thoughts on the matter are a simplified catchup system.

Base it on the first 3 months since CS launch Max 100 CP, next 3 months Max 100 CP (so after 6 month max is 200 CP (for those bad at maths)) and carry this on. But when we reach the second 3 months, those that have not yet got 100 CP they now gain 2 CP instead of 1 until they reach 100 then they just get enlightenment.
If you are a new player joining after 9 months of CS and the new limit is 300 CP, for the first 100 point you gain at the rate of 3CP then at up to 200 you gain at 2 CP.

danno8

JD2013 wrote: »

Solution for CP gap?

Work as hard at it as those who have been in the game longer. Simple.

Now, I am no fan of CP's, however I do not have loads of time to grind those points out, and so I am never going to be as powerful as those who do.

Does it both me? Not in the slightest. Why does it bother people so much? If you enter an MMO one year later you can't expect to be on the same tier as those who have been playing a long time. That is simply not how life works.

This is not life though, it is a game. And if you want people to play you need to maintain a level playing field that prioritizes skill and experience, not "I've been here longer therefore I win all the games by default even if you outplay me."

In real life, you will catch up to older people, since they get old and die, not to mention you have to play the game of life, it's kinda non-negotiable. ESO is optional, and who wants to play a game when the rules are perma stacked against you?

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JD2013

danno8 wrote: »

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JD2013 wrote: »

Solution for CP gap?

Work as hard at it as those who have been in the game longer. Simple.

Now, I am no fan of CP's, however I do not have loads of time to grind those points out, and so I am never going to be as powerful as those who do.

Does it both me? Not in the slightest. Why does it bother people so much? If you enter an MMO one year later you can't expect to be on the same tier as those who have been playing a long time. That is simply not how life works.

This is not life though, it is a game. And if you want people to play you need to maintain a level playing field that prioritizes skill and experience, not "I've been here longer therefore I win all the games by default even if you outplay me."

In real life, you will catch up to older people, since they get old and die, not to mention you have to play the game of life, it's kinda non-negotiable. ESO is optional, and who wants to play a game when the rules are perma stacked against you?

Let me use an example here. Say you take up a karate class. There's guys who have been there two years or more. Do you expect to be as strong and as good at it as them after your first week?