Plz remove champions points

wally2000

Molsondry , thats what im saying fix them in some way , but this is a mmo Rpg with pvp if it was just an MMO u will have al pg same class with no levels like in any FPS , there are people fishing blacksmithing clothing etc
In a RPG u need to improve to carry on ,there is no point to finish in a endless pvp with no more progression
What im saying is , u can make that more balanced like put people with similar cp in battle etc
they need fix them

Cogo

Molsondry wrote: »

[
And when you have pvp involved in a Massive multiplayer online game it need to be fair for everyone. Someone doesnt deserve to be stronger only because he has more time to invest in the game. It simply doesnt work like that in the PvP scene.

I agree with this to an extent, but life isn't always fair. Suck it up and try to beat those who are stronger. If you don't then so what. If you do...well, then you are better then them. ;-)
Winning over more stronger players then you in Cyro happens every day. Think warfare. If the best player in Cyro is running around, grab 10 people and kill him. If they are 10, grab 100. Or the school yard way.....if they pull a knife, you pull a gun.

Cyro isn't fair. It's war.

It's impossible to make everything equal. Wouldn't be much fun if it was. Wouldn't everyone being the same power just mean Warcraft/starcraft styles matches in a TESO world? No thank you....

You said it yourself what MMOs was. "MMO" have nothing to do with the game mechanics, "fair" or anything else other then being a massive multiplayer Online game. Also, ESO is a MMO Roleplaying game. In Roleplaying games you have different ways to build and improve yourself. You make choices depending on your roleplay char. RPGs don't give everyone the best power. You earn them and when you have got everything, you wun.

MMORPG are not static and those who are gets boring very fast.

Personofsecrets

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

The CP system is the replacement for the VR system. Vet ranks will be going away at some point. As far as the game not being popular thats because of a lack of content not because of CP.

cp and lack of content is certainly related. we got peddled an massive attribute system, that nobody asked for, instead of a dungeon, trial, or zone.

Personofsecrets

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

\. Meanwhile the other 99% of the players are in the game happily playing and spending money.

the other 99% of players have left. guilds are dead or dying. the weekly leader board attempts have been pathetic.

mdhammond

Go play call of duty if you want to compete with everyone on an even play field. This is an rpg and as such on going character progression should be a must. I guess WoW got it all wrong constantly raising the lvl cap? That's how they've kept all those fans and been on the throne of the market for how long now? 10+ years or some crap

how many freakin times do I have to say this before someone sees it, don't cap every freakin person so you can be equal in pvp, all you have to do is scale everyone to be equal in pvp zones, leave pve players to progress their characters for gods sake

That's extremely selfish, "every player in the game should cease to progress their character so I can feel equal in pvp". Not all of us like to create 8 Alts, some of us like to invest in and develope one character and keep developing it

Molsondry

Cogo wrote: »

Molsondry wrote: »

[
And when you have pvp involved in a Massive multiplayer online game it need to be fair for everyone. Someone doesnt deserve to be stronger only because he has more time to invest in the game. It simply doesnt work like that in the PvP scene.

I agree with this to an extent, but life isn't always fair. Suck it up and try to beat those who are stronger. If you don't then so what. If you do...well, then you are better then them. ;-)
Winning over more stronger players then you in Cyro happens every day. Think warfare. If the best player in Cyro is running around, grab 10 people and kill him. If they are 10, grab 100. Or the school yard way.....if they pull a knife, you pull a gun.

Cyro isn't fair. It's war.

It's impossible to make everything equal. Wouldn't be much fun if it was. Wouldn't everyone being the same power just mean Warcraft/starcraft styles matches in a TESO world? No thank you....

You said it yourself what MMOs was. "MMO" have nothing to do with the game mechanics, "fair" or anything else other then being a massive multiplayer Online game. Also, ESO is a MMO Roleplaying game. In Roleplaying games you have different ways to build and improve yourself. You make choices depending on your roleplay char. RPGs don't give everyone the best power. You earn them and when you have got everything, you wun.

MMORPG are not static and those who are gets boring very fast.

Dude I love eso concept Im just waiting for them to fix the pvp lag exploit etc..

But seriously look at the other "MMO" out there. The most lucrative one and the most played?. They are pvp games with everyone on the same level whenever you started.(minus little grind for LOL) (LOL, DOTA2, CSGO)

You want this game to succeed? Give it a great and fair pvp like it was advertised and it will.

Keep the CP for pve.

Cogo

BuggeX wrote: »

Cogo wrote: »

Another one of this threads? I guess some people just likes to yell about things.

Look at the big picture of Champion points. Not only what it does to you. Champion points are great. The only thing they should consider is to make them per character and not give the same ones to all chars on your account.

Also,
Champion points effects are good, but just because someone have a lot of points doesn't mean they are majorly overpowered. It still comes down to how well you play. Look at the CPs effects. They help but anyone can get much better effects from gear and global skills.

Example: Block.
10 CPs gives...5% better block? You can get 20% and more, very easy from global skills and gear set effects.

This is not the Problem, (btw i like CP and dont want them removed) but CP give you additional Stats to your Play style.

Lets take a look, i Play DK, first i was full Tank - immortal in PVP, permablocking etc, but didnt got any DMG Output.

Now, after i have more CP i redesigned my DK to pure Magica with one Slot Sword/shild. With the CP i have Close the same deff like befor (well a bit less, i miss around 4k Stamina and 5k Armor becaus i use a other set)

But my DMG Output went from 0 to OP.

If you do this without CP, yes you dmg will be the same, but you dont have the def like now without CPs

You said it better then me.

I mean that the Champion system is great. It needs to be tweaked for Cyro. Not removed.
No one is immortal in Cyro. Some can be very good 1v1, sure. But no one can win 1 vs 10 etc.

Cogo

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Dru1076 wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Dru1076 wrote: »

There are a lot of people on both sides of the fence on this. You guys shouldn't

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

As far as the game and its future CP has been in for quite some time. There are three whole threads complaining and those complaining are not new players. Read the story about chicken little.

In fact, there are several threads from new players on console asking for the non-vet campaign to be freed of champion points. I think that qualifies as new players complaining about cp's.

First off those complaints are about people coming into a brand new launched game with VR14 and bunch of champ points starting day one. That is a valid complaint. It has absolutely nothing to do with what we are talking about tho. Our game isnt brand newly launched and CP has been live on the servers since March.

Also there are not "several". There are I believe two. With good reason because the devs dont like people making 1000s of threads on the same topic. If you look at the views and response count its really a very very minor issue compared to the other issues. Once the console game has been out as long as the PC it will be a non issue.

There no point in conversing with you. You are derailing this thread and not really adding anything. You said there are NO new players in the game complaining about Cp's. Now you admit to being fully aware of them. You are not helping this debate very much.

They arent complaining about the CP system. They are complaining that with a brand new game there are already vr14s running around geared up with CP. Its not a complaint about the system itself. I know I was involved with those threads. The PC is totally different. So again you cannot find anyone actually complaining about what you say. Only they wish people with CP werent allowed in the NON VET campaigns. Only because the game is brand new and those players dont have any CP to spend. The PC game is NOT brand new.

This nails the problem. My alts should not be able to use my Champion points I earn with my Vet char. If they make CPs char specific just like all skills, that would fix this problem.

Enaijo

ESO is a MMORPG (at least on PC). It's the same in nearly every MMORPG. Players who invest more time in the character or who have played longer have an advantage over players who don't or can't or new players.

If there will be a problem with CPs in a year from now, then let ZOS solve them ... in a year from now. For example: ZOS could open up campaigns without CPs. Or if you think the problem will be others, who say you can only come with us if you have 600+ CPs, then simply play with people who are not that elitist.

I for one don't grind CPs, so I'm "behind" other players. But know what? I don't have a single problem with that. CPs are not needed for any content that's in the game, everything can be solved with something called "skill". They are just a nice mechanic for people who wanna progress even further. And again, that's the same with nearly every MMORPG. What would be next? Remove levels because one need to "grind" for them? These are progression-systems that are defining the whole genre. If you wan't progression-systems removed from the game, maybe you should look for another genre.

Oh and @Molsondry, please stop insulting every player that has a different opinion then yours.

Moonshadow66

I saw the thread title, came in here to eventually share my opinion, read the first page and... now I forgot what my opinion was. It's so stressful to read, really.

Why not just playing the game like you did before CS came out? What do I care about other players' CP or about their ranks on any leaderboards and whatnot? And if they want to run in circles 24/7 to grind another 10 millions of CP, then I say they aren't very bright, are they.. They certainly do not have fun playing the game.

But, like in every game, someone will be the first and someone else will be the last. They cannot catch up. It's like with the age - someone who's now 20 will never catch up the years of someone who's 50 since the time goes by for everyone equally. That's life.

But it's not that I don't understand the general problem. So my suggestions are:
- For PvPers we'd need additional campaigns in which CPs are disabled;
- For all players, my idea would be to increase the required amount of XP for each CP the higher it gets.
(I'm sorry if this was suggested before, I didn't read every comment.)

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Dru1076 wrote: »

I am offering solutions that don't involve removing cp's. Think about it, and one more time, I am sorta on your side so stop being so hostile.

I am not being hostile. Disagreeing with you is not attacking you. The whole point of the thread is removal of CP. You accused me of derailing it. I am saying there is no need for removal of CP. If you want to discuss something different probably should make a separate thread about it eh?

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Molsondry wrote: »

Cogo wrote: »

Another one of this threads? I guess some people just likes to yell about things.

Look at the big picture of Champion points. Not only what it does to you. Champion points are great. The only thing they should consider is to make them per character and not give the same ones to all chars on your account.

Also,
Champion points effects are good, but just because someone have a lot of points doesn't mean they are majorly overpowered. It still comes down to how well you play. Look at the CPs effects. They help but anyone can get much better effects from gear and global skills.

Example: Block.
10 CPs gives...5% better block? You can get 20% and more, very easy from global skills and gear set effects.

What is your point with that example? I really dont understand....

Anothers one of those guys who havent took time to read the whole tread and see how CP is breaking the combat mechanics and will be bad for new player income in the year to come.

How is CP breaking combat mechanics?

BuggeX

Molsondry wrote: »

Cogo wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

Of course, if it's too simple to max out, you might ask why even have a progression system after max level.
Frankly I have no idea. ESO's whole character system is borked imo. Most MMOs are fine with having a max level, at which point you can optimize your gear, etc. But gear is so abundant in ESO that you optimized it way before you hit max level. The whole system is on its head, so they try to prolong leveling first with the veteran system and now the champion system, but miss the point entirely.

That would be true for other MMOs but ESO is ESO. ESOs model is just that, you develop all the time and can choose whatever fits your game style. No one can have the best in everything. That's great! It's up to you! Why is that wrong?

ZoS explained both before the ESO launch and after that there should not be anything "the best gear". There is very good high end gear, yes. But crafted sets are still good enough even for the hardest encounters.

Info about ESO sais everywhere that you can choose your own way. Nothing is wrong or right. You decide. Update 6 and the character develop design have really done that. If someone likes it or not is a complete different thing then a broken system.

Also, ESO doesn't start at Level 50 and Vet rank 14. It starts at level 1. Most MMOs where you can copy a guide for best gear/class etc, they start on max level. The players skills in the game is far more powerful then having a well geared character. Isn't that a good thing?

Eso , is not on another world. Dont you know what MMO mean . It only means Massive Multiplayer Online. Its not a genre , its not a style its Massive multiplayer online.

And when you have pvp involved in a Massive multiplayer online game it need to be fair for everyone. Someone doesnt deserve to be stronger only because he has more time to invest in the game. It simply doesnt work like that in the PvP scene.

So you are saying some one who work longer than you, should not get more reward for?

sry this is not how our world works.

Cogo wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

Cogo wrote: »

Another one of this threads? I guess some people just likes to yell about things.

Look at the big picture of Champion points. Not only what it does to you. Champion points are great. The only thing they should consider is to make them per character and not give the same ones to all chars on your account.

Also,
Champion points effects are good, but just because someone have a lot of points doesn't mean they are majorly overpowered. It still comes down to how well you play. Look at the CPs effects. They help but anyone can get much better effects from gear and global skills.

Example: Block.
10 CPs gives...5% better block? You can get 20% and more, very easy from global skills and gear set effects.

This is not the Problem, (btw i like CP and dont want them removed) but CP give you additional Stats to your Play style.

Lets take a look, i Play DK, first i was full Tank - immortal in PVP, permablocking etc, but didnt got any DMG Output.

Now, after i have more CP i redesigned my DK to pure Magica with one Slot Sword/shild. With the CP i have Close the same deff like befor (well a bit less, i miss around 4k Stamina and 5k Armor becaus i use a other set)

But my DMG Output went from 0 to OP.

If you do this without CP, yes you dmg will be the same, but you dont have the def like now without CPs

You said it better then me.

I mean that the Champion system is great. It needs to be tweaked for Cyro. Not removed.
No one is immortal in Cyro. Some can be very good 1v1, sure. But no one can win 1 vs 10 etc.

Well, if you Play vs 10 noobs and they think they can fight a dk in the Standard of might, then yes, you can win 1v10

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Molsondry wrote: »

Cogo wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

Of course, if it's too simple to max out, you might ask why even have a progression system after max level.
Frankly I have no idea. ESO's whole character system is borked imo. Most MMOs are fine with having a max level, at which point you can optimize your gear, etc. But gear is so abundant in ESO that you optimized it way before you hit max level. The whole system is on its head, so they try to prolong leveling first with the veteran system and now the champion system, but miss the point entirely.

That would be true for other MMOs but ESO is ESO. ESOs model is just that, you develop all the time and can choose whatever fits your game style. No one can have the best in everything. That's great! It's up to you! Why is that wrong?

ZoS explained both before the ESO launch and after that there should not be anything "the best gear". There is very good high end gear, yes. But crafted sets are still good enough even for the hardest encounters.

Info about ESO sais everywhere that you can choose your own way. Nothing is wrong or right. You decide. Update 6 and the character develop design have really done that. If someone likes it or not is a complete different thing then a broken system.

Also, ESO doesn't start at Level 50 and Vet rank 14. It starts at level 1. Most MMOs where you can copy a guide for best gear/class etc, they start on max level. The players skills in the game is far more powerful then having a well geared character. Isn't that a good thing?

Eso , is not on another world. Dont you know what MMO mean . It only means Massive Multiplayer Online. Its not a genre , its not a style its Massive multiplayer online.

And when you have pvp involved in a Massive multiplayer online game it need to be fair for everyone. Someone doesnt deserve to be stronger only because he has more time to invest in the game. It simply doesnt work like that in the PvP scene.

Again this is not how MMOs work. Someone should FOR SURE have an advantage if they have time invested in their characters. You cannot expect this to be call of duty. Its not a MOBA. This is a MMO and with MMOs you spend time developing your character. You will not be able to just jump in and right off the bat compete with people who have skills, gear and more levels than you.

The game is not all about pvp and how everything affects pvp. Why not work on your character instead of wanting everything handed to you with zero effort?

themizario

Just going to leave this here: I'm not grinding and I have 260 CP

When I hit 400 I'm bringing back my magika DK, perma block and all.

Tonnopesce

Molsondry wrote: »

Cogo wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

Of course, if it's too simple to max out, you might ask why even have a progression system after max level.
Frankly I have no idea. ESO's whole character system is borked imo. Most MMOs are fine with having a max level, at which point you can optimize your gear, etc. But gear is so abundant in ESO that you optimized it way before you hit max level. The whole system is on its head, so they try to prolong leveling first with the veteran system and now the champion system, but miss the point entirely.

That would be true for other MMOs but ESO is ESO. ESOs model is just that, you develop all the time and can choose whatever fits your game style. No one can have the best in everything. That's great! It's up to you! Why is that wrong?

ZoS explained both before the ESO launch and after that there should not be anything "the best gear". There is very good high end gear, yes. But crafted sets are still good enough even for the hardest encounters.

Info about ESO sais everywhere that you can choose your own way. Nothing is wrong or right. You decide. Update 6 and the character develop design have really done that. If someone likes it or not is a complete different thing then a broken system.

Also, ESO doesn't start at Level 50 and Vet rank 14. It starts at level 1. Most MMOs where you can copy a guide for best gear/class etc, they start on max level. The players skills in the game is far more powerful then having a well geared character. Isn't that a good thing?

Eso , is not on another world. Dont you know what MMO mean . It only means Massive Multiplayer Online. Its not a genre , its not a style its Massive multiplayer online.

And when you have pvp involved in a Massive multiplayer online game it need to be fair for everyone. Someone doesnt deserve to be stronger only because he has more time to invest in the game. It simply doesnt work like that in the PvP scene.

Life is unfair...

If someone who works 2 hours a day, deserve the same pay as someone who works 8 it will be justice following your line.

Dru1076

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Dru1076 wrote: »

I am offering solutions that don't involve removing cp's. Think about it, and one more time, I am sorta on your side so stop being so hostile.

I am not being hostile. Disagreeing with you is not attacking you. The whole point of the thread is removal of CP. You accused me of derailing it. I am saying there is no need for removal of CP. If you want to discuss something different probably should make a separate thread about it eh?

*sigh*. Pointless. What part of that is relevant to the discussion? By hostile I mean arguing with me aggressively.... Despite the fact that we both want champion points to stay. I disagree with your approach to discussing the subject, because of the way you present yourself.

Instead of getting rid of them, just make it possible for players to play against other players they can test their skills against, rather than testing the time they have had to build champion points. I am not the only one who has put this forward, and I thought it was a great compromise. There are probably not enough people with high champion ranks yet for this to work yet.

Before you respond to anything in this post, @jamesharv2005ub17_ESO , I'm interested if you think tiered campaigns based on cp rank could be a long term solution to the concerns raised by the op?

Katsibrokos

Imo VR needs to be completely removed and CP give more <fluffy> afvantages than real char power. I would accept CP give boosts like lower horse training time, faster Rank gains in various NPC guilds, faster XP gains in skill lines etc.

I think CP in its current state and the increasing gap between players, will eventually cause a huge problem in every aspect of the game, either its pvp, pvp or even guilds. Pop will split in many pieces depending the CP. Guilds wont raid in PvE with ppl who have a small amount of CP (maybe they will make 2nd or 3rd raid teams for lower CP members) and new ppl wont go to a PvP place where there are ppl who have 56456446 CP more than those of their char. This will get re tarded real soon...

Personofsecrets

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

Life is unfair...

If someone who works 2 hours a day, deserve the same pay as someone who works 8 it will be justice following your line.

this is why we should have p2w

Tonnopesce

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

Life is unfair...

If someone who works 2 hours a day, deserve the same pay as someone who works 8 it will be justice following your line.

this is why we should have p2w

How about NO!

Personofsecrets

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

Life is unfair...

If someone who works 2 hours a day, deserve the same pay as someone who works 8 it will be justice following your line.

this is why we should have p2w

How about NO!

why? you said it yourself. life is unfair...

Tonnopesce

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

Life is unfair...

If someone who works 2 hours a day, deserve the same pay as someone who works 8 it will be justice following your line.

this is why we should have p2w

How about NO!

why? you said it yourself. life is unfair...

And i like it this way, if you dont work for what you want is pointless to cry just because others have it.


Back to topic
This is still a game not RL so in this New born CP mechanic Zos will add something to balance it later on, but now is not so much unbalanced and forecasting 1-2 years from now assuming that zos will do nothing is just wrong

Taking as an example WOW as the op like to do... they have added the "buy a level 90 caracter" like 2 years ago, before you had to PLAY tru all the game( 10 years + of stuff) in order to reach old players.

jircris11

Drakoleon wrote: »

Too late...the game has become already PAY to WIN (XP busters,potion and food buffers way over the crafted ones in crown store) What do you expect after that?
How could someone compete anyone with 5 times or more his CP points? Waste of time and waste of money paying for this game since release....
PVP is dead for me All this time i went through bugs,hacks, lag and now this.....I had enough of this
I ll stay playing pve till my plus is over... then...game over!

False, crafted food is always better and XP boosters can be bought off of players. you are just grumpy that you are not the "Leet" pvper you thought you where. Sure CP are a bit one sided but to be honest its the same for MOST mmos with PVP.

Leandor

Ahahahaha...

Sorry, had to get that of my chest. So, @Molsondry , you tell me that 149% of the value, meaning 1.49 times the initial value is over 9000? Please re-read you notes on math. The graph starts at 101% conforming to a 1% increase you gain by spending 1 point in the respective star. Moreover, that graph is valid for attribute gains only. The gain for each attribute is a flat number and not related to the base value available. That means that the percentage changes significantly if you factor in the respective resource gained from set bonuses and enchants. All it means is that you will get a lot more use from your "off spec" stat, but not for the main stat.

For most individual values, the bonus at 100 points invested is 25%, with some being lower than that. None is higher. That fancy curve up there does not change the fact that an equally geared and leveled player with 3600 CP is approximately 25% stronger statwise than the one without CP. The passive perks are powerful but situational and (except for the 12% crit) cannot be converted into a "percentage better" value. If you don't know how to use them, they don't help you at all.

I am about average in CP, at 200 at the moment. I play PvP almost exclusively in a small group (4 to 8 players, usually on the lower end of that range). I know some of those we go against have 100+ CP advantage over me. I still stand my ground.

There is no doubt that CP make your char stronger. There is no doubt that a significant lead in CP gives you an advantage. That selfsame advantage you have on a much more pronounced scale due to veteran rank disparity. Do you really think that if you level to vet14 in PvE and jump into PvP, you should be entitled to wreck everything? That would be the definition of a skill-less game.

Please don't exxagerate this way. There needs to be some catch-up mechanism, and they have already committed that they are hammering out the details of such a system (and their proposal is a good one - making the first 400 points cheaper gives you the most crucial passives at a much quicker rate). There are many things wrong with the game - CP is not one of these things.

Faulgor

Cogo wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

Of course, if it's too simple to max out, you might ask why even have a progression system after max level.
Frankly I have no idea. ESO's whole character system is borked imo. Most MMOs are fine with having a max level, at which point you can optimize your gear, etc. But gear is so abundant in ESO that you optimized it way before you hit max level. The whole system is on its head, so they try to prolong leveling first with the veteran system and now the champion system, but miss the point entirely.

That would be true for other MMOs but ESO is ESO. ESOs model is just that, you develop all the time and can choose whatever fits your game style. No one can have the best in everything. That's great! It's up to you! Why is that wrong?

ZoS explained both before the ESO launch and after that there should not be anything "the best gear". There is very good high end gear, yes. But crafted sets are still good enough even for the hardest encounters.

Info about ESO sais everywhere that you can choose your own way. Nothing is wrong or right. You decide. Update 6 and the character develop design have really done that. If someone likes it or not is a complete different thing then a broken system.

Also, ESO doesn't start at Level 50 and Vet rank 14. It starts at level 1. Most MMOs where you can copy a guide for best gear/class etc, they start on max level. The players skills in the game is far more powerful then having a well geared character. Isn't that a good thing?

We must play different games, because I see none of that in ESO.

Some gear is clearly better than others, or people wouldn't pay insane amounts of gold for spell damage / weapon damage gear. And, of course, there is a gradient in quality of the same gear (level and upgrade value), which I was actually referring to.

And ESO absolutely allows you to be the best in everything. You can max all skill lines and get all champion passives without, the "master of all" is very much alive in this game.

Further, there absolutely are wrong and right builds. I really can't see why you would suggest anything else.

And finally, the game gates content almost everywhere. I have no idea why you would say it starts at level 1.

Now, the problem with allowing my level 40-something character to create legendary endgame gear is that I still have to go through ~10 normal and 14 veteran levels to eventually be able to wear it. That is an insanely long and boring grind without any noticable rewards. It is really disturbing game design that I am only kept from my gear because of an arbitrary barrier and not because of actual gameplay, which would be the case the other way around: If I were max level with not-so-great gear and had to work for good one, in whichever way the game provides. Crafting, loot, group PvE rewards, PvP, all of that would be fine. But gear is so abundant and of little value you could probably buy a full VR14 set with the gold you make by level 30 or so.
That this is a problem shows everywhere in supposedly endgame content, because nobody feels compelled to do it due to the lackluster rewards.

Molsondry

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Molsondry wrote: »

Cogo wrote: »

Another one of this threads? I guess some people just likes to yell about things.

Look at the big picture of Champion points. Not only what it does to you. Champion points are great. The only thing they should consider is to make them per character and not give the same ones to all chars on your account.

Also,
Champion points effects are good, but just because someone have a lot of points doesn't mean they are majorly overpowered. It still comes down to how well you play. Look at the CPs effects. They help but anyone can get much better effects from gear and global skills.

Example: Block.
10 CPs gives...5% better block? You can get 20% and more, very easy from global skills and gear set effects.

What is your point with that example? I really dont understand....

Anothers one of those guys who havent took time to read the whole tread and see how CP is breaking the combat mechanics and will be bad for new player income in the year to come.

How is CP breaking combat mechanics?

Pretty sure the dev didnt want to allow Perma Block, perma dodge, while having inifinte magika pool and doing insane burst. Cp allows all of this.

BuggeX

Molsondry wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Molsondry wrote: »

Cogo wrote: »

Another one of this threads? I guess some people just likes to yell about things.

Look at the big picture of Champion points. Not only what it does to you. Champion points are great. The only thing they should consider is to make them per character and not give the same ones to all chars on your account.

Also,
Champion points effects are good, but just because someone have a lot of points doesn't mean they are majorly overpowered. It still comes down to how well you play. Look at the CPs effects. They help but anyone can get much better effects from gear and global skills.

Example: Block.
10 CPs gives...5% better block? You can get 20% and more, very easy from global skills and gear set effects.

What is your point with that example? I really dont understand....

Anothers one of those guys who havent took time to read the whole tread and see how CP is breaking the combat mechanics and will be bad for new player income in the year to come.

How is CP breaking combat mechanics?

Pretty sure the dev didnt want to allow Perma Block, perma dodge, while having inifinte magika pool and doing insane burst. Cp allows all of this.

And? this Person still have to face a other Player with the same CP.

Leandor

BuggeX wrote: »

Molsondry wrote: »

Pretty sure the dev didnt want to allow Perma Block, perma dodge, while having inifinte magika pool and doing insane burst. Cp allows all of this.

And? this Person still have to face a other Player with the same CP.

Don't bother arguing with him. Just by reading his last (and quoted) comment, it is quite clear that his understanding of the CP system as well as game mechanics is only rudimentary and that the above rant is more or less an "excuse".

There is no such thing as "Perma-Block" - the guy trying is not mobile and can be overcome simply by throwing caltrops at him and staying at range. This is exactly the way we deal with the tanks. That, and not going for the shield-wielding heavy armored brute in front while ignoring his healers in the background. The trick is to learn to go for the right target in the right order, not a CP advantage.

There is no such thing as "Perma-Dodge" - because it is completely useless. You need to dodge at the right moment, perma-dodging only opens you to the simple counters (timing attacks). And while it is theoretically possible to perma-dodge, you can do so only with a full stamina bar and without wasting it for other things. One fossilize, one timed crystal frag, one caltrops snare and you're a goner. I know because I tried it with a stamina reg built bosmer werewolf nightblade with 3000 stamina regen (went back to a more weapon damage focussed build with just 2000 reg now due to the above). You simply CAN'T perma-dodge in a fight if your opponents know what to do. Again, all charges go through dodge. A templar with toppling charge will completely wreck you if you try the dodge stunt. Again, the trick is knowing when to dodge and how to use dodge, not a CP advantage.

Mentioning "unlimited magicka pool" and "perma-dodge" in one sentence shows you exactly the knowledge level behind the comment.

As to the "insane burst", neither a perma-blocker (1H&S plus HA with red champion points in Block expertise) nor a perma-dodger (usually bow for the speed increase, red green CP in tumbling, full medium) can put out "insane burst" without preparing accordingly (buff stacking, stealth, surprise situation, etc.). Neither of these builds has much potential to "burst" while already engaged. The trick is to time your actions and combine counters and attacks in a way that nullifies the defense of the opponent, not a CP advantage.

Poster's problem is not CP, it is the training and abilities that the player behind the enemy toon has acquired while actually playing the game instead of complaining about mechanics. It just seems like the CP advantage is at fault, because the players having this advantage usually have put in insane amounts of game time which honed their abilities to a very high level.

And yes, mindlessly running in circles in Cyrodiil delves also contributes to it, because just doing that you ingrain certain action combinations to a point where your brain reacts instead of decides. This is and always has been the target of the warrior - hence maneuvers, or in former times the catas. Repeat actions until their order and execution is instinctive, not a conscious decision, removing thought process makes you faster than your lesser trained opponent.

That selfsame is completely valid also for computer games. Every FPS game is based on exactly this. And due to the relatively active combat system of ESO, this training comes into fruition much stronger here than in the old school MMORPGs.

Earelith

Molsondry wrote: »

What do you want, losing thousand and thousand of new player ...

Funny enough, this is exactly the argument wow players used in forums when they were asking for ultra casualization of wow and how a casual "3 hours a week" player can "catchup", and the devs bite that argument and this is when the downfall begun...empty servers, even after the merge..I don't know where they pull that number of 7 million players..maybe Brazil and asia? All I know is that 80% of EU servers are dead.

And trust me, wow did what people cried for in forums while ignored the 10 times more people that did play the game and did not bothered with the forums.

Furor

MMORPGs are the land of equal opportunity not the land of equality.
It's time people stopped confusing the two.