Should Alliance Rank be account wide?

eliisra

Yes, Alliance Rank should be account wide

With +5 VR characters, I obviously support this. Getting alliance skills and passives all over again, that's the hardest part of re-rolling or alt'ing.

Nothing comes close. Getting max Undaunted and other guilds, grinding VR14, leveling mount speed, farming shards and skill points, these things are super fast compared to alliance war rank 24.

The problem when something takes this long is that more casual players unhappy with their race/class dont have the patience or time to repeat a 6 months long grind, on top of everything else you need to grind on a new charterer. They tend to slowly go inactive instead, or that's from my experience in-game.

But I really doubt war ranks will ever be account based. There's practical problems connected to it, like how they award skill points not account based. Also to good to be true. To customer friendly and easy. ZoS already made it clear that re-rolling should come with dull grinding and pain. In some sense they're right. Re-rolling shouldn't be done in a few days or weeks. I suspect they start selling AP boosters instead.

Stamden

Yes, Alliance Rank should be account wide

eliisra wrote: »

I suspect they start selling AP boosters instead.

Oh god don't give them any ideas.

arena25

No, Alliance Rank should stay on each character

OP, here's my two cents:

I think it needs to stay on each character because that might give some level 1 characters an ungodly amount of skill points that they can't use.

Now, about your poll: It should say this:

Yes, it should be account wide.
Yes, but only alliance wide.
No, it should stay on each character.

Now, it also realistically is not practical because imagine the following scenario:

Pretend for a few minutes you are the principal of a elementary school. One day, you decide you want to give the opportunity to one lucky kid to be Principal for a Day. After you select the winner, you instruct the kid that (s)he is to basically run the school for a day through whatever means necessary. The next day, the kid heads to school as "Principal for a Day", while you stay at home carefree and catch up on that show you always wanted to watch but didn't have time for. The following day, you return to the school, all refreshed and ready to go, to find sitting on your desk a complaint letter written by the staff and describing a day with "no learning, the kids going crazy, etc." After talking to some of the staff, you quickly ask yourself the following question: "What in the <bleep> was I thinking?"

Yeah, schools used to do "Principal For a Day" contests. It was a way to improve the morale of the students. Why do you think they got rid of it? Because kids don't have the mindset to think like adults.

Same here. Characters with lower experience shouldn't be given the same rank as those who spent more time in Cyrodiil.

Stamden

Yes, Alliance Rank should be account wide

arena25 wrote: »

Pretend for a few minutes you are the principal of a elementary school. One day, you decide you want to give the opportunity to one lucky kid to be Principal for a Day. After you select the winner, you instruct the kid that (s)he is to basically run the school for a day through whatever means necessary. The next day, the kid heads to school as "Principal for a Day", while you stay at home carefree and catch up on that show you always wanted to watch but didn't have time for. The following day, you return to the school, all refreshed and ready to go, to find sitting on your desk a complaint letter written by the staff and describing a day with "no learning, the kids going crazy, etc." After talking to some of the staff, you quickly ask yourself the following question: "What in the <bleep> was I thinking?"

Yeah, schools used to do "Principal For a Day" contests. It was a way to improve the morale of the students. Why do you think they got rid of it? Because kids don't have the mindset to think like adults.

Same here. Characters with lower experience shouldn't be given the same rank as those who spent more time in Cyrodiil.

Why is it that so many people seem to think this way? That I want to give new players some free reign to the top? That I want to new players to skip what everyone has earned? That is not what this is about. That doesn't even make sense. Where are all you getting this from? I'm so tired of these posts.

If something is account wide, and your a new player,, your still going to have to level up and progress just as anyone else would. The only thing this would change anything for is alternate characters on your account after you already did all of it.

So if anyone else is going to make smart ass, pro-elitest comment that has nothing to do with the topic, go to a different thread.

For you specifically, arena25. The "Principal for a Day" example has nothing to do with what is being discussed. Instead, let me give you an example that would fit the discussion: Your a princpial of a school, but your tired at working at your school and want to be the principal of another one. You can't do this though, because to do that you would have to go to middle school, high school, and college and spend years re-learning everything that you know to get another teaching degree. That is the current way the system is set up in ESO.

sagitter

No, Alliance Rank should stay on each character

No! Would you like easy thing right? NO! Go play Skyrim or some others kids game like Dark souls!

Stamden

Yes, Alliance Rank should be account wide

sagitter wrote: »

No! Would you like easy thing right? NO! Go play Skyrim or some others kids game like Dark souls!

"deathpandax_ESO wrote: »

"So if anyone else is going to make smart ass, pro-elitest comment that has nothing to do with the topic, go to a different thread.

Ley

Yes, Alliance Rank should be account wide

sagitter wrote: »

No! Would you like easy thing right? NO! Go play Skyrim or some others kids game like Dark souls!

I feel like some people could be a little more open minded about this idea. I'm not expecting everyone to support this idea but it wouldn't kill people to at least discuss pros and cons, conditions in which they would be willing to accept some form of account wide alliance rank or why they wouldn't be willing to under any conditions. I don't think the general idea here to make it easier to gain alliance rank, just to be able to do so without being restricted to pvping on one character.

I mean take away the skill points and the alliance war skill tree advancement and what are you left with? A number, a rank that represents how much you've pvped (or farmed ap). I don't personally think that the skill tree or the skill points are that big of deal, so keep them or loose them, I'd be happy with just the rank/title being account wide. I'll unlock the pvp skills I want eventually and make due without them in the meantime. As for the skill points, by the time I'm into my vet ranks, I generally have all the skill points I need for whatever builds I want, a few extra from pvp won't make or break me.

newtinmpls

No, Alliance Rank should stay on each character

deathpandax_ESO wrote: »

If something is account wide, and your a new player,, your still going to have to level up and progress just as anyone else would. The only thing this would change anything for is alternate characters on your account after you already did all of it.

I think that this is the chess vs DnD problem.

In chess, you "play" 16 different "characters" and those form a collective that is "your" side.

In DnD (yes, I'm thinking old school blue box set from days long past - but that's what started this mess) you play ONE character, and that individual has skills, gains levels, gains equipment and so on.

In Chess, your whole "side" has control of the board (or doesen't) coordinates to get your pawns queened (or doesn't). Or to use the current jargon - you play the account, not the individual piece.

In an RPG, even though you have many characters - it's still based on a single-character storyline. So every single character will slowly "become" a hero. Not start out as one.

I think that the terminology of "alt" or "toon" encourages a "chess" mindset which is not what ESO/ZOS has set up this game to support.

Stamden

Yes, Alliance Rank should be account wide

newtinmpls wrote: »

deathpandax_ESO wrote: »

If something is account wide, and your a new player,, your still going to have to level up and progress just as anyone else would. The only thing this would change anything for is alternate characters on your account after you already did all of it.

I think that this is the chess vs DnD problem.

In chess, you "play" 16 different "characters" and those form a collective that is "your" side.

In DnD (yes, I'm thinking old school blue box set from days long past - but that's what started this mess) you play ONE character, and that individual has skills, gains levels, gains equipment and so on.

In Chess, your whole "side" has control of the board (or doesen't) coordinates to get your pawns queened (or doesn't). Or to use the current jargon - you play the account, not the individual piece.

In an RPG, even though you have many characters - it's still based on a single-character storyline. So every single character will slowly "become" a hero. Not start out as one.

I think that the terminology of "alt" or "toon" encourages a "chess" mindset which is not what ESO/ZOS has set up this game to support.

Yes but I think the modern MMO is leaning more toward the chess model. If youdne character, there isn't any reason to have to do the same thing again on the same character, it's just a time waster. It might make for a slightly imbalanced low level for the vet playing a new character, but who really cares about lower level balance anyway.

It seems that ZoS is also leaning toward this system too. It shows in things like Champion Points and Dyes. Hopefully the will make the right choice and do the same for Alliance War rank.

Kronosphere

Yes, Alliance Rank should be account wide

god please make it account wide for the faction your in. each faction should be seperate however

Kronosphere

Yes, Alliance Rank should be account wide

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

When I see a character of a certain alliance rank, I want to know they earned it on that character. Same goes for showing my alliance rank. I'm all for ease of access for playing different characters and classes, but let's keep this in perspective. Everything in the game shouldn't be account based. Champion points already provide enough account coverage.

Next you'll be wanting achievements account wide.

yeah i would actualy. it makes sense. look at steam, xbox, ps4 literally everything else non mmo that has acheivements its account based. its you the person acheiveing it not your character.

golfer.dub17_ESO

Yes, Alliance Rank should be account wide

Take a quick glance around and it should be obvious that a lot of people hate the process of bringing their alts up to the level of their main.

As someone else said, the mentality is that you're leveling your account and not your character.

Ignore all that for a moment though. The real issue is that Alliance Rank takes forever to level to begin with. Especially so if you're a new player that isn't even remotely competitive in PvP.

Yes but I think the modern MMO is leaning more toward the chess model.

In my opinion it's how it should be.

Making new characters and experiencing new playstyles should be fun and easy, not tedious and time consuming.

sagitter wrote: »

No! Would you like easy thing right? NO! Go play Skyrim or some others kids game like Dark souls!

Why do people constantly refer to one of the most reputably hardcore games as easy?

Do you think we find you cool for saying "oh even that isn't hardcore enough for me"? Because we don't.

newtinmpls

No, Alliance Rank should stay on each character

Warning: long rambly post!

Deathpandax said:

deathpandax_ESO wrote: »

If something is account wide, and your a new player,, your still going to have to level up and progress just as anyone else would. The only thing this would change anything for is alternate characters on your account after you already did all of it.

I replied:

newtinmpls wrote: »

I think that this is the chess vs DnD problem.

In chess, you "play" 16 different "characters" and those form a collective that is "your" side.

In DnD (yes, I'm thinking old school blue box set from days long past - but that's what started this mess) you play ONE character, and that individual has skills, gains levels, gains equipment and so on.

In Chess, your whole "side" has control of the board (or doesen't) coordinates to get your pawns queened (or doesn't). Or to use the current jargon - you play the account, not the individual piece.

In an RPG, even though you have many characters - it's still based on a single-character storyline. So every single character will slowly "become" a hero. Not start out as one.

I think that the terminology of "alt" or "toon" encourages a "chess" mindset which is not what ESO/ZOS has set up this game to support.

deathpandax_ESO wrote: »

Yes but I think the modern MMO is leaning more toward the chess model. If youdne character, there isn't any reason to have to do the same thing again on the same character, it's just a time waster. It might make for a slightly imbalanced low level for the vet playing a new character, but who really cares about lower level balance anyway.

It seems that ZoS is also leaning toward this system too. It shows in things like Champion Points and Dyes. Hopefully the will make the right choice and do the same for Alliance War rank.

I think that we can agree that "chess" and "DnD" (for lack of more creative terms) are two very different models as far as how ranks/skills and so on are treated.

I also think that it would be best (in terms of establishing a commonality of thought/ mindset within any given game) if either everything was account wide, or nothing was. That would make the style question very clear.

With respect to how ZOS is choosing to do ESO, I suspect that banking is account wide because that's what is acheivable in terms of game mechanics/development. I don't know if that's what applies to dyes and champion points, and the collections tab but I think it's a good possibility.

ESO (being an ES game) is based on a a world setting that was created as a single player "one character at a time" model, not a chess model. This model has been continued even here. In ESO though you can have up to 8 characters per account, you can only play one at a time. And though you can share (as in put it in the bank and have another character use it) most equipment and your various materials/potions, each character is individual in terms of quests, faction alliance (though there may be overlapping choices) and so on.

Questions of how long "should" it take to
1-achieve Max level
2-get a certain bit of equipment
3-be powerful enough to do X

Cannot have one answer, as this game has people who play it 20 hours a day (I'm quoting from a Deltia's Gaming video here) and people who maybe average 3-4 hours per week. The people who game more are going to progress faster, though increased XP potions, sub bonuses, gaming bonuses and ring of Mara bonuses will have effects.

In the current setting, this can cause frustration because there is an artificial division between PvE focused lower levels and PvP focused upper levels. I think that especially with respect to casual PvP players wanting to compete in Vet14 focused activities, this creates a lot of frustration.

To me it looks like two different game/styles are being mashed together. In a chess game, you already have all the "powers" that you will ever have, and you jump in and battle.

In a DnD game the slow accumulation of powers is part of the appeal. In fact there are folks who re-start lower level characters because this is where they get the most enjoyment.

I don't have an answer. I'm just trying to articulate the problem.

Maudieu

No, Alliance Rank should stay on each character

Account wide? No. Alliance wide? Yes.

Stamden

Yes, Alliance Rank should be account wide

Maudieu wrote: »

Account wide? No. Alliance wide? Yes.

Lets assume the 3 fractions still get seperate Alliance Rank, to prevent abuse of the system. ie: Your Daggerfall charactesr will have a different Alliance rank from your Ebonheart characters, but all your characters in Daggerfall will have the same rank.

theweakminded

No, Alliance Rank should stay on each character

I would however like to see universal progress towards the active skill lime, but that is all because of vigor...

TheShadowScout

No, Alliance Rank should stay on each character

seanvwolf wrote: »

Just increase AP gain and adjust the amount of AP required to gain a level. Problem solved.

Now that is something I could agree with. Especially if there were more AP gains for participating in PvP. Even and especially on the losoing side, as new characters inevitably will. I know it often vexes me how little AP I can grab before veteran PK stompss me into respawn in Cyrodil... all too often spend a hour or two in cyrodil, and then have very little to show for it since the other side just was too good. And it would be nice if characters of lower power would be able to earn their alliance ranks despite not having much success against the PvP-elite that often dominates the battlefield...

arena25

No, Alliance Rank should stay on each character

deathpandax_ESO wrote: »

arena25 wrote: »

Pretend for a few minutes you are the principal of a elementary school. One day, you decide you want to give the opportunity to one lucky kid to be Principal for a Day. After you select the winner, you instruct the kid that (s)he is to basically run the school for a day through whatever means necessary. The next day, the kid heads to school as "Principal for a Day", while you stay at home carefree and catch up on that show you always wanted to watch but didn't have time for. The following day, you return to the school, all refreshed and ready to go, to find sitting on your desk a complaint letter written by the staff and describing a day with "no learning, the kids going crazy, etc." After talking to some of the staff, you quickly ask yourself the following question: "What in the <bleep> was I thinking?"

Yeah, schools used to do "Principal For a Day" contests. It was a way to improve the morale of the students. Why do you think they got rid of it? Because kids don't have the mindset to think like adults.

Same here. Characters with lower experience shouldn't be given the same rank as those who spent more time in Cyrodiil.

Why is it that so many people seem to think this way? That I want to give new players some free reign to the top? That I want to new players to skip what everyone has earned? That is not what this is about. That doesn't even make sense. Where are all you getting this from? I'm so tired of these posts.

If something is account wide, and your a new player,, your still going to have to level up and progress just as anyone else would. The only thing this would change anything for is alternate characters on your account after you already did all of it.

So if anyone else is going to make smart ass, pro-elitest comment that has nothing to do with the topic, go to a different thread.

For you specifically, arena25. The "Principal for a Day" example has nothing to do with what is being discussed. Instead, let me give you an example that would fit the discussion: Your a princpial of a school, but your tired at working at your school and want to be the principal of another one. You can't do this though, because to do that you would have to go to middle school, high school, and college and spend years re-learning everything that you know to get another teaching degree. That is the current way the system is set up in ESO.

Deathpandex, my sincere apologies. More caffeine before posting is an important lesson to learn.

xaraan

Yes, Alliance Rank should be account wide

Yes, if we are talking just the rank portion and not the skill portion, then yes, all characters in the same faction should share the same rank. Skill lines should level separately however.

Stamden

Yes, Alliance Rank should be account wide

TheShadowScout wrote: »

seanvwolf wrote: »

Just increase AP gain and adjust the amount of AP required to gain a level. Problem solved.

Now that is something I could agree with. Especially if there were more AP gains for participating in PvP. Even and especially on the losoing side, as new characters inevitably will. I know it often vexes me how little AP I can grab before veteran PK stompss me into respawn in Cyrodil... all too often spend a hour or two in cyrodil, and then have very little to show for it since the other side just was too good. And it would be nice if characters of lower power would be able to earn their alliance ranks despite not having much success against the PvP-elite that often dominates the battlefield...

Maybe there could be a 10% AP bonus for a losing side? But honestly I don't think there needs to be a feature like this. There
is always ways to do something. I personally love when my side is losing cause D-ticks are huge.

Dennizon

No, Alliance Rank should stay on each character

As long as there are different factions I have to say no. I don't want to see people making alts and taking all their previously accumulated AP gains with them just because of the ebb and flow of the alliance war. The current system forces a bit of realm pride; something that is sorely needed in games like this.

Stamden

Yes, Alliance Rank should be account wide

Dennizon wrote: »

As long as there are different factions I have to say no. I don't want to see people making alts and taking all their previously accumulated AP gains with them just because of the ebb and flow of the alliance war. The current system forces a bit of realm pride; something that is sorely needed in games like this.

I.. I.. cant even.

Please just read main post before posting.

Dennizon

No, Alliance Rank should stay on each character

deathpandax_ESO wrote: »

Dennizon wrote: »

As long as there are different factions I have to say no. I don't want to see people making alts and taking all their previously accumulated AP gains with them just because of the ebb and flow of the alliance war. The current system forces a bit of realm pride; something that is sorely needed in games like this.

I.. I.. cant even.

Please just read main post before posting.

I am very sorry you don't like someone stating a point you feel you already addressed; the point I made is still valid to the discussion. The truth is I lost interest in your post before I reached the end and posted without seeing your comment on abusing your proposed system.

I also don't support shared AP on the same realm because it encourages the same issue I previously mentioned by facilitating players in making FotM characters when they see someone else in the field doing better than they are. The bottom line is that this is a bad idea because it will serve to dilute the diversity of classes. An example could be the Templar who has high APs and decides to continue healing the zerg even though if they could transfer their effort to a Dragonknight or Sorc they would; you just lost a dedicated healer because you made time/effort placed in a character less meaningful. I am of the opinion that time invested is a badge of honor and instant gratification erodes game longevity and community.

Stamden

Yes, Alliance Rank should be account wide

Dennizon wrote: »

deathpandax_ESO wrote: »

Dennizon wrote: »

As long as there are different factions I have to say no. I don't want to see people making alts and taking all their previously accumulated AP gains with them just because of the ebb and flow of the alliance war. The current system forces a bit of realm pride; something that is sorely needed in games like this.

I.. I.. cant even.

Please just read main post before posting.

I am very sorry you don't like someone stating a point you feel you already addressed; the point I made is still valid to the discussion. The truth is I lost interest in your post before I reached the end and posted without seeing your comment on abusing your proposed system.

I also don't support shared AP on the same realm because it encourages the same issue I previously mentioned by facilitating players in making FotM characters when they see someone else in the field doing better than they are. The bottom line is that this is a bad idea because it will serve to dilute the diversity of classes. An example could be the Templar who has high APs and decides to continue healing the zerg even though if they could transfer their effort to a Dragonknight or Sorc they would; you just lost a dedicated healer because you made time/effort placed in a character less meaningful. I am of the opinion that time invested is a badge of honor and instant gratification erodes game longevity and community.

1. People still wouldn't switch to FotM characters without going through the ridiculous process of leveling to VR14. Don't underestimate how long this takes without trying it. You'll want to kill yourself.

2. So your saying if someone would rather play a damage dealer than a healer, they should be forced to play a healer because of what class they picked when they started the game?

That is the type of situation that I know people are in and it sucks for them. They want to play a different class/playstyle but are forced to stick with what they have because restarting Alliance War would take over half a year.

Huggernaut

Yes, Alliance Rank should be account wide

Need more account wide stuff PERIOD. I'm tired of feeling like I'm being punished for wanting to roll an alt.

Like having to complete 1500 quests + hundreds of shards & books, as well having to level every weapon/skill/armor/etc line again isn't bad enough, we have to go through all this other crap on every character too?

Pointless grind that only drives players away.

Stamden

Yes, Alliance Rank should be account wide

Huggernaut wrote: »

Need more account wide stuff PERIOD. I'm tired of feeling like I'm being punished for wanting to roll an alt.

Like having to complete 1500 quests + hundreds of shards & books, as well having to level every weapon/skill/armor/etc line again isn't bad enough, we have to go through all this other crap on every character too?

Pointless grind that only drives players away.

Yeah true. It's not even the verticle progression that gets me (like leveling). It's the ridiculously tedious stuff like skyshards, public duegon group events, mages/figihters guild, AR, crafting skill lines, etc. I'm not saying it should all be account wide but I will say that all that stuff really makes the thought of making an alt disgusting.

OrphanHelgen

Yes, Alliance Rank should be account wide

Imperials and dunmer DK says no. Everyone else say yes.

Sacadon

Yes, Alliance Rank should be account wide

Samadhi wrote: »

Would be interested in seeing Alliance Rank made Alliance wide, but not account wide.
8 Characters in the same alliance? Give them the same rank.
8 Characters spread across the different alliances? Group them by rank.

I like this idea

Psychobunni

Yes, Alliance Rank should be account wide

Let me first say I don't pvp, and likely will only long enough for needed gear or whatever. That said I voted yes, simply because those ranks seem (at least to me) to have such a huge gap that unless willing to live pvp, seem rather hard to accomplish is my first reason. Secondly, what if I have been playing with xxxx toon forever and doing pvp and ZOS walks in with the nerf bat and kills any love I had for that toon. (hey my magicka based pve sorc is a mail collector now, so it could happen)....starting over from scratch if I were really high in ranks and pvp was important to me, would be very, very depressing.

I already have to have all my toons I actually want to play with people(like dungeons/dsa/trials) in one faction due to short sightedness on someones part developing this game. So....if not account wide, then at least faction wide, since my EP toons can't play with or even join same campaigns as my AD toon. My EP toons should be earning it together as a whole. imo anyways

newtinmpls

No, Alliance Rank should stay on each character

Dennizon wrote: »

I am of the opinion that time invested is a badge of honor and instant gratification erodes game longevity and community.

This is kinda what i was thinking, but you said it so much better than I could. Thanks!

It's the people that will invest in a character because of the character, or their love of the lore - or in-game interactions. These guys are really enjoyable to play with. A lot of them are probably still subbed.