DODGE ROLL NEEDS NERF

Personofsecrets

@ZOS_GinaBruno ,

I am not particularly upset with dodge rolling in Cyrodiil. It isn't any more silly than infinite blazing shield, infinite hardened ward, infinite sap essence, or any of the other things that people use over and over.

One particular part of dodge rolling that should change though is that vulnerability frame that one receives while blocking and dodging.

Example: Possessed Mantikora throws a poison spear and the fastest way to get out of it is a dodge roll. The tank dodge rolls out of the spear. Because of that dodge roll the tank suffers about a second of time where they are not blocking and not able to block again. Sometimes the tank will then get hit with a lethal attack during that second. This has occurred enough to me in SO and VDSA that I will avoid roll dodging and ideally not roll dodge at all.

I think that this mechanic, of dropping block with a roll dodge, goes against the spirit of both dodge rolling and blocking. Those things are supposed to mitigate damage and not lead to an instance that an enemy can one shot someone who decides to dodge while blocking.

Dekken_Blake

I can roll dodge quite a bit, and I have pretty mediocre gear. If I try to attack and dodge a lot, its costly and takes skill to balance. However, if I stop mid fight to somersault down a hill, I'm probably the least of your worries on the battlefield. There is a point in a fight where trying to continue is too costly, You need to break away and find a better target. For those who hate chasing roll dodgers and bolt escapers, I can only offer one bit of advice.

Islyn

In before LOL button is back!

LegacyDM

Dekkameron wrote: »

joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »

L2p. If your a magicka user learn to use magicka detention and watch dodge rollers blow up. If your a stamina user, learn to use bow or 2 handed as a gap closer. Dodge rolling is fine in this game. No need to nerf. Nerfing dodge rolling would screw up all magicka (with exception of sorcs) users since they get very little dodge rolling to begin with.

Wut? Nearly everything you just said was wrong. Why would rolling screw up magicka builds? Of course it woulkd have an effect, but if it was nerfed.. it would be stam builds that felt it more. Also.. The famous Bow gap closer maneuver.... Also wut..

Um I didn't think I needed to spell it out for you but as a magicka user I can only dodge roll 2-3 times because I don't use a stamina based build. If you nerf dodge rolling what affect do you think it would have on magicka users as an escape tool? I can only dodge roll once or not at all?! Is that your solution for us? I don't buy the argument stam build would feel it more. Learn to use the range weapon and spells that you have at your disposal. I have no problem with dodge rollers when I dot them with magicka destruction and use a gap closer as a finisher.

kelly.medleyb14_ESO

Dodge roll cost needs to be GREATLY reduced when wearing 5pc leather.

cozmon3c_ESO

there are a few blue on chillrend that can roll dodge for near forever. there are 25 people of all classes trying to kill one rolly polly dk that can 2-3 shot people while hes rolling, there is a little bit of a problem. he does this for 5-10 minutes straight before he dies from the 5% damage he cannot avoid with dodge roll. im limited to 2 skills that can hit this guy outside of aoe that ill actually kinda hurt him, unti he GDB back to full life again lols. as a sorc thats curse and detonation. the fact you see these guys tanking better then tank builds should tell you something about dodge roll people. i havent seen a tank take on 25 people before for more then 20 seconds, something is a bit out of wack. im not sure what a good fix is for this because i like my 2 dodge rolls i can do now and i dont want to hinder that in the process, but dodge roll has very little counter in the game right now for single target damage. aoe's will hit them but doesnt really do enough in an even fight, 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, 25v1 (lol)

DeLindsay

rileynotzb14_ESO wrote: »

I'm so sick of chasing these little [snip] grasshoppers all over Cyrodiil. No one should be able to dodge roll infinitely. ZOS needs to increase the cost for consecutive rolls. It's meant to be a quick escape you use at the correct time to avoid a big hit, but instead its part of everyone's normal rotation. Ability, dodge roll, ability dodge roll etc. It's lame and makes the combat very frustrating, cheesy and unskillful.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

Hi bro, PvE Healer here and just wanted to let you know that you are in luck. 1.6 did in fact severely increase the cost of Dodge Roll. As a Healer I can Dodge Roll ONE TIME and have to wait several seconds before I can do so again. It's absurd that the costs are so high (to "balance" PvP) which negatively effects PvE because ZoS refuses to further separate abilities between the 2. We already know they can do it, because they did so with Shields.

Tavore1138

Dodge roll is a resource drain - very few people use it as a positive tactic in combat, it is not cheap even in a stamina build and is manly used to get out of combat you feel you can't win because after rolling a few times you aren't going to have the stamina left to do much harm.

Dodge roll doesn't have much counter because... IT IS A COUNTER!!!

I use it for one reason only - to get out of CC or area effects that would otherwise kill me. As an NB I can BE, I don't have GDB and I don't have a Jesus Beam... as a Stamina NB who doesn't crave blood I don't have the ability to pop multiple cloaks (assuming they even work) nor can I turn into mist.

I can literally roll a couple of metres a handful of times and if I am caught by a group in the open that won't keep me alive unless they are extremely poor players.

I can imagine if someone spends a lot of CP on cost mitigation and regen and focuses solely on rolling they could manage a fair number before running dry but at that point you should probably just hit them a couple of times.

I'm sympathetic to in game frustrations and don't like to see the L2P thrown around a lot... but really??

Ara_Valleria

Give me back my Dark Cloak that can break Talons CC, and I shall vow never to use dodge roll unless in red $hit or siege AoE.

#StopNerfingNBs
#NBism

WraithAzraiel

rileynotzb14_ESO wrote: »

I'm so sick of chasing these little [snip] grasshoppers all over Cyrodiil. No one should be able to dodge roll infinitely. ZOS needs to increase the cost for consecutive rolls. It's meant to be a quick escape you use at the correct time to avoid a big hit, but instead its part of everyone's normal rotation. Ability, dodge roll, ability dodge roll etc. It's lame and makes the combat very frustrating, cheesy and unskillful.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

Anyone else getting flashbacks to the cries for nerfs to Sorc Streak?

DeathDealer19

ZOS_AlanG wrote: »

Hi everyone, this discussion is rather heated and we need it to cool off and get back on track. It's fine to disagree or be critical, but please keep your posts civil and constructive.

so much time spent moderating forum posts.. wish that time went elsewhere where its needed

EinionYrth

DeathDealer19 wrote: »

ZOS_AlanG wrote: »

Hi everyone, this discussion is rather heated and we need it to cool off and get back on track. It's fine to disagree or be critical, but please keep your posts civil and constructive.

so much time spent moderating forum posts.. wish that time went elsewhere where its needed

That's his job, he's not a dev and probably couldn't code his way out of a paper bag.

Folkb

EinionYrth wrote: »

DeathDealer19 wrote: »

ZOS_AlanG wrote: »

Hi everyone, this discussion is rather heated and we need it to cool off and get back on track. It's fine to disagree or be critical, but please keep your posts civil and constructive.

so much time spent moderating forum posts.. wish that time went elsewhere where its needed

That's his job, he's not a dev and probably couldn't code his way out of a paper bag.

lol

how rude! :P

Niminion

Mumnoch wrote: »

AssaultLemming wrote: »

Sounds like dodge roll should get the bolt escape treatment and go up in cost the more you use it...

Totally this. Stamina user's are abusing this mechanic and it needs a "increasing cost to use" penalty just like Bolt Escape got when these same people abusing the dodge roll was complaining about the chain Bolt Escape.

Yes and yes!

Armitas

A Quick Note to any Developer that may be listening.

This is a complex problem that cannot be fixed by just lowering the roll cost reduction on medium armor. A lot of us are mixing medium and light armor together because of the new demand on stamina. This demand comes from the addition of unblockable CC that puts break free on a 5 second cooldown along with the changes to immovable.

The core problem here is excessive X builds made possible by a capless system. It is now possible to push down a mode ad absurdum. This is difficult to balance because a lot of people share the same road to this particular method of gameplay. You can't just nerf the whole road to reach the people at the far end of it. Those sort of changes kill diversity because they make hybridization impossible. We have already seen this happen with light armor by the addition of a second passive with a 5 piece requirement.

If you are not going to use roadblocks to prevent ad absurdum builds you will need to find a precise way to counter them without nerfing hybridization or those with moderate builds in the process.

eventide03b14a_ESO

I have an idea. Everyone in PvP now can't move more than a brisk walking pace. No more dodging, no more sprinting, and certainly no more Bolt Escape. That's obviously the only way people are going to happy.

Sphinx2318

AOE Barbecue would be totally offended if he could still post in these forums sir!

TiberiusTryton

I want my perma wings back! Meow!

Ara_Valleria

Armitas wrote: »

SHADOW2KK wrote: »

rileynotzb14_ESO wrote: »

SHADOW2KK wrote: »

rileynotzb14_ESO wrote: »

I'm so sick of chasing these little [snip] grasshoppers all over Cyrodiil. No one should be able to dodge roll infinitely. ZOS needs to increase the cost for consecutive rolls. It's meant to be a quick escape you use at the correct time to avoid a big hit, but instead its part of everyone's normal rotation. Ability, dodge roll, ability dodge roll etc. It's lame and makes the combat very frustrating, cheesy and unskillful.

Adapt, a moving target is harder to hit.

So dodge rollers like myself, should just stand still and let you kill us?, really?

And its not that difficult to kill dodge rollers, try getting some skill instead of whining about it.

Lol not that hard to kill dodge rollers? You can dodge roll INFINITELY without any time in between rolls. You clearly don't understand the concept or you would know that it is an UNSKILLFUL mechanic. It's more skillful to have to time your rolls than to just spam them.

Lol, I feel honoured that you choose to cry to me instead of everyone else who has posted to you:}.

No its not hard to kill dodge rollers, adapt, overcome, learn, how many other words do you need to get a grip?

I time my rolls, and why should I care what enemies think?, only good enemy is a dead one, and I shall use every tactic to outwit, and to kill the enemy player.

Try using talons, or the fighters guild cross bow morph, "cant remember what its called".

There is a few tactics you can use, so as I said earlier, its not that difficult to kill dodge rollers.

Its sorta similar to killing bunny hoppers in fps games, so easy its unreal, you shoot ahead to where they are gonna go, or lead your shots, boom.

And I do think I clearly understand the concept of killing dodge rollers, which I do not think you do:}, still.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

Right, adapt, overcome, learn to play... You suggested he use talons to over come roll and a two cast fighters guild skill that is damage balanced from monster proc and is also avoidable by dodge rolls. Talons does nothing to stop dodge roll. These are just glib responses to protect what you think is right. If you are right then use the truth to show that you are right.

This.

grimsfield

rileynotzb14_ESO wrote: »

I'm so sick of chasing these little [snip] grasshoppers all over Cyrodiil. No one should be able to dodge roll infinitely. ZOS needs to increase the cost for consecutive rolls. It's meant to be a quick escape you use at the correct time to avoid a big hit, but instead its part of everyone's normal rotation. Ability, dodge roll, ability dodge roll etc. It's lame and makes the combat very frustrating, cheesy and unskillful.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

learn to play and stop asking for nerfs. this change would affect pve as well, and not in a good way.

eventide03b14a_ESO

This is why they don't take us seriously. Because of all the nonsensical nerf threads. There should be ranking button at the top of these threads that we can immediately down rank them out of existence. -1 for this thread.

Obscure

Obscure Patch Note:
Cyrodiil
- Dodge roll cost now scales up to 100% more based on target's QQ
- Dodge roll will delay until after the effect being dodged goes off
- Dodge rolling now deals 100 damage to targets times to the number of "Agrees" this post receives on the forums.

Kingdinguhling

Soloeus wrote: »

Kingdinguhling wrote: »

yea this is a ridiculous request... it would absolutely break any class that is magicka based in PVP and in PVE.

And force even more people to roll stamina.

honestly I believe they need to make CC break instant and immediate. and probably reduce the cost of Bolt escape a little.

But then you wouldn't be forced to roll Stamina.

YES YOU WOULD BECAUSE MAGICKA BUILDS WOULD HAVE NO WAY TO AVOID ANYTHING EXCEPT SORC.

lolo_01b16_ESO

Before you want the costs of multiple dodge rolls increased, do vet DSA a few times in light armour and without using more than one roll in a row.

Velcon

No.
Light armor = shields
medium = dodge roll
heavy = block
If dodge roll is taking away this game will stop being flexible and alot will quit. I find it stupid to see a hit coming and not moving out the way. I only die to being CC.

Head.hunter

Doesn't require any skill? Bahahahaha. Where do I begin to deconstruct your comment?

blabafat

SHADOW2KK wrote: »

rileynotzb14_ESO wrote: »

I'm so sick of chasing these little [snip] grasshoppers all over Cyrodiil. No one should be able to dodge roll infinitely. ZOS needs to increase the cost for consecutive rolls. It's meant to be a quick escape you use at the correct time to avoid a big hit, but instead its part of everyone's normal rotation. Ability, dodge roll, ability dodge roll etc. It's lame and makes the combat very frustrating, cheesy and unskillful.

Adapt, a moving target is harder to hit.

So dodge rollers like myself, should just stand still and let you kill us?, really?

And its not that difficult to kill dodge rollers, try getting some skill instead of whining about it.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

I agree. Sure, it's frustrating when someone is dodging all of your attacks and it takes forever to kill him/her. It's frustrating when someone can put a shield up repeatedly and tank all of your damage(I shield stack as well). But really asking for nerfs? It's like saying, "stop blocking my cc's." Any sensible player will dodge roll, block, shield stack, stealth up, etc. in sticky situations to survive.

bloodenragedb14_ESO

joshisanonymous wrote: »

Magicka builds have access to tons of shields for defense, magicka sorcs seem to be able to BE 15 times in a row again like back in the day, shield users can get right back up to where it's possible to block almost constantly and can even do damage with shields again like back in the day, and stamina builds can now set themselves to up to be able to dodge quite a bit. It sounds like this is how it's supposed to work; each build style has some good defensive mechanic that it can rely on.

exactly, now stop crying, play the game, get better. because every cry for nerf is just a beacon to you own lack of skill.

Zhoyzu

LOLOLOL. NBs have nothing going for them in the "shields" dept so lets nerf the next best alternative they have to being perma rooted/stunned.


Roll dodge does need a nerf. it shouldnt cost me 1/2 my stam bar, more like 1/12 of my bar would be much better.

Zhoyzu

joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »

Dekkameron wrote: »

joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »

L2p. If your a magicka user learn to use magicka detention and watch dodge rollers blow up. If your a stamina user, learn to use bow or 2 handed as a gap closer. Dodge rolling is fine in this game. No need to nerf. Nerfing dodge rolling would screw up all magicka (with exception of sorcs) users since they get very little dodge rolling to begin with.

Wut? Nearly everything you just said was wrong. Why would rolling screw up magicka builds? Of course it woulkd have an effect, but if it was nerfed.. it would be stam builds that felt it more. Also.. The famous Bow gap closer maneuver.... Also wut..

Um I didn't think I needed to spell it out for you but as a magicka user I can only dodge roll 2-3 times because I don't use a stamina based build. If you nerf dodge rolling what affect do you think it would have on magicka users as an escape tool? I can only dodge roll once or not at all?! Is that your solution for us? I don't buy the argument stam build would feel it more. Learn to use the range weapon and spells that you have at your disposal. I have no problem with dodge rollers when I dot them with magicka destruction and use a gap closer as a finisher.

1) magicka users can stack shields and other affects to mitigate the dmg. Last i checked CC break and roll dodge cost a percentage of max stamina. meaning stam users feel it more.
Ive got some 20k stam and a cc break depletes most of it. being a stam user thats a huge disadvantage as i have less to work with in a fight as opposed to a magicka user who doenst need to give it a second thought.