The need for functional torches

Wyietsayon

Cool idea, but like some others, I'm not sure how it'd work with combat. What if your a bow or staff user? What happens if your sneaking? As for it replacing the shield, players would be upset that for those dark dungeons, they'd have to sacrifice their set bonuses and enchantment bonus, just to use a torch.

Instead, maybe it could be something like a trophy item, where if you use it, you can walk around with the torch. However, upon entering combat, the torch disappears and you return to your normal animations. Similarly, drawing your weapon would force the torch away. This wouldn't be effective for a dark dungeon design, but you could at least walk around with a torch.

I could see them implement a dark dungeon though, but instead of a torch, it's magic or fireflies floating around you. In fact, didn't they already do this in one of the coldharbour dungeons? Could have sworn one of them was super dark and difficult to navigate.

Gidorick

Wyietsayon wrote: »

Cool idea, but like some others, I'm not sure how it'd work with combat. What if your a bow or staff user? What happens if your sneaking? As for it replacing the shield, players would be upset that for those dark dungeons, they'd have to sacrifice their set bonuses and enchantment bonus, just to use a torch.

Instead, maybe it could be something like a trophy item, where if you use it, you can walk around with the torch. However, upon entering combat, the torch disappears and you return to your normal animations. Similarly, drawing your weapon would force the torch away. This wouldn't be effective for a dark dungeon design, but you could at least walk around with a torch.

I could see them implement a dark dungeon though, but instead of a torch, it's magic or fireflies floating around you. In fact, didn't they already do this in one of the coldharbour dungeons? Could have sworn one of them was super dark and difficult to navigate.

Most of your concerns are addressed with weapon swap.

The coldharbour dungeon is how I got that last screen shot and the reason I resurrected this thread.

Back in October I suggested an alternate item slot that could be used for carried items while a player has their weapons sheathed.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/134177/alternate-items-carried-while-weapon-is-sheathed

No one ever commented on the thread. Heheh.

lecarcajou_ESO

Not sure how pitch-black nights would work in PVP situations, but at least for delves, I think this is a splendid idea.

ZOS_AlanG

We certainly appreciate the detailed and constructive feedback in threads like this. We want players to be able to hold torches, too, and we're looking into ways we could accomplish that.

c.p.garrett1993_ESO

"Torches should be able to be equipped as a one-handed weapon. This way, a player could wield a sword and torch, a torch and shield, or just a torch by itself."

Not satisfied until I can dual wield torches and light people on fire.

nastuug

Gidorick wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

Wouldn't they have to readjust the lighting -- pretty much a complete overhaul -- if these were added with purpose? I mean, we don't even need them right now.

Yes and no. If you look at my screen shots you'll see that my settings keep eso pretty dark. Those aren't re-touched Screen shots. Many players would use them because we want to.... upping the gamma would alleviate the darkness too. In my Environment & Weather Systems Overhaul Concept thread I suggest contextually darker nights to support the addition of torches.

Gidorick wrote: »

Night Enhancements
To be honest, I had planned to have a section for Day Enhancements but I truly feel the day environments are just about perfect in Tamriel. The appearance of the sun, the movement of the shadows, and the skybox are all wonderfully designed and constructed. There is nothing I could imagine that would make the days of Tamriel better than they are. Well, except for fog removal, as mentioned above.

Opposed to day, night in Tamriel actually leaves quite a bit to be desired. There are a few enhancements that should be made to make the night play significantly different than the day in Tamriel.

• Darker nights: First and foremost, Tamriel needs darker nights, depending on the cloud cover.
  • The current night brightness should be the setting for bright nights with clear sparkling skies.
  • The darkest the night should be a stormy night with completely covered skies.
  • Darkness should vary naturally from the brightness night to the darkest night, dependent on cloud cover.
  
  
  While it would make sense for the brightness of the night to be effected by the phases of Masser and Secunda, I think it would be too much to ask to have both weather and moon-phase to impact the brightness of the night.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/157644/environment-weather-systems-overhaul-concept

ZOS would likely want to relight some dungeons to 'encourage' torch use of they were ever added.

As experienced as you seem, keep in mind this is a MMORPG, not Skyrim. You turn the lights off in this game and you may find a group of people (possibly majority) with some heavy complaints that they will be reliant on holding a silly torch just to simply get from Point A to Point B.

Considering the above information, it sounds as if ZOS will be implementing torches for the sake of holding torches rather than to provide a real purpose. Perhaps @ZOS_AlanG can clarify?

This entire conversation reminds me of the request for a difficulty slider... in a MMORPG... lol

Attorneyatlawl

I'd have fun with torches for lighting at night in Cyrodiil . Dark Age of Camelot had them, as a simple hotkey you could turn it on or off with, not equipment. Fun to use, let you see more easily but also made you more visible as you lit up too. Of course, you could use that to your advantage as a trap.... , nice little extra dynamic for enjoyment, and I'd imagine Roleplayers would like it for their activities too .

Iselin

Gidorick wrote: »

... darker nights and darker delves would be a good idea.

Specially delves...

I recently changed video cards and haven't bothered yet with color and brightness recalibration... everything is a bit darker than the way I had it previously...

So... I was zooming along @ VR12 doing a delve in my last Caldwell Gold zone. It was a Dwemer ruin and I was going down a corridor wondering what was ahead in the next room... when a Centurion that was standing on the side of the corridor behind some vertical pipes jumped me.

I literally had a fight or flight reaction: my heart started beating faster, I felt that familiar adrenaline rush tingle and the hairs on my arms stood at attention... it was a priceless "scare the crap out of me" moment before I proceeded to destroy it while laughing at myself.

That doesn't happen often enough in gaming and it was definitely the darkness that made it happen. So yeah.. darker delves and torches, I'm all for it. Meanwhile, turn down your gamma if you enjoy surprises

Gandrhulf_Harbard

Torch in off-hand would give Staff users something to do.

Why oh why is Staff listed as a 2-H weapon and ONLY used one handed, except when blocking?

All The Best

Drazhar14

ZOS_AlanG wrote: »

We certainly appreciate the detailed and constructive feedback in threads like this. We want players to be able to hold torches, too, and we're looking into ways we could accomplish that.

If you do so, please add actual dark environments that require them! That'd be so awesome.

Jaxsun

ZOS_AlanG wrote: »

We certainly appreciate the detailed and constructive feedback in threads like this. We want players to be able to hold torches, too, and we're looking into ways we could accomplish that.

Just check outside the ZOS office, probably plenty of torch wielders upset you still haven't fixed the lag in Cyrodiil...

bertenburnyb16_ESO

ZOS_AlanG wrote: »

We certainly appreciate the detailed and constructive feedback in threads like this. We want players to be able to hold torches, too, and we're looking into ways we could accomplish that.

Instead of torches it could also be a lantern hanging from the players belt, this way they would still have their hands free for weapon use, quality of lantern and/or fuel could cause different lichting, also, eso should be by default alot darker at night
A game that did this very welk was dragons dogma

Gidorick

Not everything about an mmo need to provide tactical advantage @nastuug... but multiple options are a must. Torches, Magelights, potions of night eye, and Khajiit's ability to see in the darkshould all be options for players.

bloodenragedb14_ESO

Gidorick wrote: »

Not everything about an mmo need to provide tactical advantage @nastuug... but multiple options are a must. Torches, Magelights, potions of night eye, and Khajiit's ability to see in the darkshould all be options for players.

dont forget a vampire's night eye, it should come with detect life as well

nastuug

Gidorick wrote: »

Not everything about an mmo need to provide tactical advantage @nastuug... but multiple options are a must. Torches, Magelights, potions of night eye, and Khajiit's ability to see in the darkshould all be options for players.

It's not so much that it would provide a tactical advantage. I'm meaning simply to move in PVE in the type of environment you've shown in your screenshots would require the use of a torch. Thus, the entire functionality of the game would change from its current state unless you allow players to opt out of this extremely low light.

traigusb14_ESO2

While I like the general idea and agree that torches and mage light should give off enough light to see, I don't want to use a up a weapon slot or a spell slot just to be able to see.

Magic weapons could glow. (higher quality = more light)

Burn a Soul Shard for 30 mins of light +/- level of shard (based on your body location)

KerinKor

Gidorick wrote: »

Thoughts?

No thanks, torches and dark places are a PITA that I can live without.

And please, don't plead realism, there are a million 'real' things missing in games that aren't and the games are far better without them.

Gidorick

nastuug wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Not everything about an mmo need to provide tactical advantage @nastuug... but multiple options are a must. Torches, Magelights, potions of night eye, and Khajiit's ability to see in the darkshould all be options for players.

It's not so much that it would provide a tactical advantage. I'm meaning simply to move in PVE in the type of environment you've shown in your screenshots would require the use of a torch. Thus, the entire functionality of the game would change from its current state unless you allow players to opt out of this extremely low light.

I think the idea of allowing players to opt out of environmental effects is strange. That would be like opting out of rain or night.

I would personally be fine with them adding torches and not changing darkness levels at all. Let those of us who want to use them, use them.

Gidorick

KerinKor wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Thoughts?

No thanks, torches and dark places are a PITA that I can live without.

And please, don't plead realism, there are a million 'real' things missing in games that aren't and the games are far better without them.

My plea is more "elder-scrollism" than it is realism.

nastuug

Gidorick wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Not everything about an mmo need to provide tactical advantage @nastuug... but multiple options are a must. Torches, Magelights, potions of night eye, and Khajiit's ability to see in the darkshould all be options for players.

It's not so much that it would provide a tactical advantage. I'm meaning simply to move in PVE in the type of environment you've shown in your screenshots would require the use of a torch. Thus, the entire functionality of the game would change from its current state unless you allow players to opt out of this extremely low light.

I think the idea of allowing players to opt out of environmental effects is strange. That would be like opting out of rain or night.

I would personally be fine with them adding torches and not changing darkness levels at all. Let those of us who want to use them, use them.

And that would be fine to add functional torches right now, but keep the lighting the way it is. Although, it begs the question: Why does one even need a torch then?

Gidorick

nastuug wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Not everything about an mmo need to provide tactical advantage @nastuug... but multiple options are a must. Torches, Magelights, potions of night eye, and Khajiit's ability to see in the darkshould all be options for players.

It's not so much that it would provide a tactical advantage. I'm meaning simply to move in PVE in the type of environment you've shown in your screenshots would require the use of a torch. Thus, the entire functionality of the game would change from its current state unless you allow players to opt out of this extremely low light.

I think the idea of allowing players to opt out of environmental effects is strange. That would be like opting out of rain or night.

I would personally be fine with them adding torches and not changing darkness levels at all. Let those of us who want to use them, use them.

And that would be fine to add functional torches right now, but keep the lighting the way it is. Although, it begs the question: Why does one even need a torch then?

To see better. Why does one need a horse if they can just run everywhere?

wilsonirayb16_ESO

I'm all for the functional torch, but all our dreams of deep dungeon spelunking gets ruined... by other people.

Open dungeons/caves have all their immersing qualities stripped, by that horde of naked players running by and roll/jump spamming along the way, rushing to get to the end because they care nothing about the exploration.

This is a fundamental flaw of the game since it's conception, and nothing will make adventuring worth while until they address this.

Make all instances flaggable for solo/private(invite only)/ public. Let us decide how we want to play.

We may not have gotten Skyrim online like we all wanted, but this way at least we can scour dungeons/caves with our friends at the pace we want, without silly interruptions.

Gidorick

wilsonirayb16_ESO wrote: »

I'm all for the functional torch, but all our dreams of deep dungeon spelunking gets ruined... by other people.

Open dungeons/caves have all their immersing qualities stripped, by that horde of naked players running by and roll/jump spamming along the way, rushing to get to the end because they care nothing about the exploration.

This is a fundamental flaw of the game since it's conception, and nothing will make adventuring worth while until they address this.

Make all instances flaggable for solo/private(invite only)/ public. Let us decide how we want to play.

My hope is for future instanced delves and dungeons to cater to the explorers amoung us.

nastuug

Gidorick wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Not everything about an mmo need to provide tactical advantage @nastuug... but multiple options are a must. Torches, Magelights, potions of night eye, and Khajiit's ability to see in the darkshould all be options for players.

It's not so much that it would provide a tactical advantage. I'm meaning simply to move in PVE in the type of environment you've shown in your screenshots would require the use of a torch. Thus, the entire functionality of the game would change from its current state unless you allow players to opt out of this extremely low light.

I think the idea of allowing players to opt out of environmental effects is strange. That would be like opting out of rain or night.

I would personally be fine with them adding torches and not changing darkness levels at all. Let those of us who want to use them, use them.

And that would be fine to add functional torches right now, but keep the lighting the way it is. Although, it begs the question: Why does one even need a torch then?

To see better. Why does one need a horse if they can just run everywhere?

That's not a proper comparison.

If the current system has no need for a functional torch, then why would you ask for one outside of the immersion request? A mount is an essential part of the modern-day MMORPG. One would typically expect a mount to exist, but not an unnecessary torch feature.

Gidorick

nastuug wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Not everything about an mmo need to provide tactical advantage @nastuug... but multiple options are a must. Torches, Magelights, potions of night eye, and Khajiit's ability to see in the darkshould all be options for players.

It's not so much that it would provide a tactical advantage. I'm meaning simply to move in PVE in the type of environment you've shown in your screenshots would require the use of a torch. Thus, the entire functionality of the game would change from its current state unless you allow players to opt out of this extremely low light.

I think the idea of allowing players to opt out of environmental effects is strange. That would be like opting out of rain or night.

I would personally be fine with them adding torches and not changing darkness levels at all. Let those of us who want to use them, use them.

And that would be fine to add functional torches right now, but keep the lighting the way it is. Although, it begs the question: Why does one even need a torch then?

To see better. Why does one need a horse if they can just run everywhere?

That's not a proper comparison.

If the current system has no need for a functional torch, then why would you ask for one outside of the immersion request? A mount is an essential part of the modern-day MMORPG. One would typically expect a mount to exist, but not an unnecessary torch feature.

and I am looking at the modern day Elder Scrolls game and expecting torches to exist.

Natjur

If only my flaming sword was also a torch...

nastuug

Gidorick wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Not everything about an mmo need to provide tactical advantage @nastuug... but multiple options are a must. Torches, Magelights, potions of night eye, and Khajiit's ability to see in the darkshould all be options for players.

It's not so much that it would provide a tactical advantage. I'm meaning simply to move in PVE in the type of environment you've shown in your screenshots would require the use of a torch. Thus, the entire functionality of the game would change from its current state unless you allow players to opt out of this extremely low light.

I think the idea of allowing players to opt out of environmental effects is strange. That would be like opting out of rain or night.

I would personally be fine with them adding torches and not changing darkness levels at all. Let those of us who want to use them, use them.

And that would be fine to add functional torches right now, but keep the lighting the way it is. Although, it begs the question: Why does one even need a torch then?

To see better. Why does one need a horse if they can just run everywhere?

That's not a proper comparison.

If the current system has no need for a functional torch, then why would you ask for one outside of the immersion request? A mount is an essential part of the modern-day MMORPG. One would typically expect a mount to exist, but not an unnecessary torch feature.

and I am looking at the modern day Elder Scrolls game and expecting torches to exist.

Yet most who look at this "just another MMORPG" couldn't care less. They want player housing, more playable classes, more content to explore and conquer, and especially the Auction Horse.

Victus

Only if they also add Grue to the game

Gidorick

nastuug wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Not everything about an mmo need to provide tactical advantage @nastuug... but multiple options are a must. Torches, Magelights, potions of night eye, and Khajiit's ability to see in the darkshould all be options for players.

It's not so much that it would provide a tactical advantage. I'm meaning simply to move in PVE in the type of environment you've shown in your screenshots would require the use of a torch. Thus, the entire functionality of the game would change from its current state unless you allow players to opt out of this extremely low light.

I think the idea of allowing players to opt out of environmental effects is strange. That would be like opting out of rain or night.

I would personally be fine with them adding torches and not changing darkness levels at all. Let those of us who want to use them, use them.

And that would be fine to add functional torches right now, but keep the lighting the way it is. Although, it begs the question: Why does one even need a torch then?

To see better. Why does one need a horse if they can just run everywhere?

That's not a proper comparison.

If the current system has no need for a functional torch, then why would you ask for one outside of the immersion request? A mount is an essential part of the modern-day MMORPG. One would typically expect a mount to exist, but not an unnecessary torch feature.

and I am looking at the modern day Elder Scrolls game and expecting torches to exist.

Yet most who look at this "just another MMORPG" couldn't care less. They want player housing, more playable classes, more content to explore and conquer, and especially the Auction Horse.

I have lofty dreams. I know.

And we NEED that horse.

nastuug

Gidorick wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Not everything about an mmo need to provide tactical advantage @nastuug... but multiple options are a must. Torches, Magelights, potions of night eye, and Khajiit's ability to see in the darkshould all be options for players.

It's not so much that it would provide a tactical advantage. I'm meaning simply to move in PVE in the type of environment you've shown in your screenshots would require the use of a torch. Thus, the entire functionality of the game would change from its current state unless you allow players to opt out of this extremely low light.

I think the idea of allowing players to opt out of environmental effects is strange. That would be like opting out of rain or night.

I would personally be fine with them adding torches and not changing darkness levels at all. Let those of us who want to use them, use them.

And that would be fine to add functional torches right now, but keep the lighting the way it is. Although, it begs the question: Why does one even need a torch then?

To see better. Why does one need a horse if they can just run everywhere?

That's not a proper comparison.

If the current system has no need for a functional torch, then why would you ask for one outside of the immersion request? A mount is an essential part of the modern-day MMORPG. One would typically expect a mount to exist, but not an unnecessary torch feature.

and I am looking at the modern day Elder Scrolls game and expecting torches to exist.

Yet most who look at this "just another MMORPG" couldn't care less. They want player housing, more playable classes, more content to explore and conquer, and especially the Auction Horse.

I have lofty dreams. I know.

And we NEED that horse.

Was hoping you'd catch that.