AP should grant Champion Points. Hear me out.

MrGhosty

I personally wish they would just cap CP to a certain amount able to be earned in a day and then adjust the rates making that feasible for players to obtain no matter the type of content they enjoy playing. Creating the cap would remove the potential problem of AP farms and allow people to get their max cap each day if they were so inclined. I would rather be encouraged to log in each day and easily reach the cap then worry about having my character do a specific action as that nets the most benefit.

That said, I'm also of the opinion that it should be just as viable to level up a character in PvP as it is in PvE. This would make creating alts far more enjoyable and would encourage healthy populations in PvP campaigns. Throw in an identical earn rate for CP with a daily cap and we might actually get to "play our own way" without feeling like we're being penalized.

Draxys

Aimelin wrote: »

stabswithjello wrote: »

How about this,

scale amount of XP/AP/CP off the alliance ranks, the higher rank you are the more you get when killed,

Let the head hunting begin

how about everyone stop asking to "grind / cap" this system out in 3 weeks

just play the damn game, if people are jumping too far ahead they will make adjustments, if ppl come in late, they will make adjustments, always has been with systems like these

no one is asking for it to be handed to us, we just want it to be fair in comparison with PvE... If that means boosting PvP xp, reducing PvE xp (I'm not a fan of that one), or capping a daily amount of points, then it should be done. Right now it is incredibly imbalanced in favor of PvE grinding.

Snit

Something has to change. I spent approximately 10 hours in Cyrodiil yesterday, reaching #33 in Thornblade (don't laugh -- that's good for me!). I did all the PvP kill dailies and a few "capture stuff" quests. I gained over half a rank of AP (from rank 13 to 14). I gained 1.5 CP's in that time. Most of that was 'Enlightened.'

I really like Cyrodiil, and I have aspirations to be above average at it someday. But I also like CP's, so I'd like to get some in Cyrodiil.

As a final note, when looking at rate of EXP/ CP/ AP etc in Cyrodiil, I hope ZOS is watching the median and not the average. There is a gigantic gap in AP gain between the small group of elite PvP'ers and AP farmers and everyone else. Most of us are never going to be them, but that gap bears watching. Looking at median gains is the best way to measure the experience of most players out there.

Snit

yodased wrote: »

so Princess Asagari who says he gets 30k AP per hour could grind out 3600 CP in 121 hours played. That would be at a conservative estimate of 5 hours played per day 24 days to ERMAHGAD power of every champion point in the system.

We really want people to have 3600 champion points in < 1 month?

I'm not worried about her. I'm worried about me. If it requires giving her access to the in-game dev commands* in order for me to feel like I can progress at a rate above glacial, then ok. Let's do that.


*but it really shouldn't

danno8

If AP in PvP is made to reward CP's at a high rate (like the 25-40k I have sen being tossed around) I can guarantee you people will exploit it either by colluding with people in other factions, or by multibox killing themselves over and over.

Currently you get ~1000 AP for 100% kill credit, it would be too easy for a few people to just kill each other over and over and farm AP.

I think they should really bump up the amount of XP from taking keeps and resources, since it is much harder to exploit because it would require near server wide collusion and there are NPC's involved which adds a level of control for ZoS.

Sypher

danno816_ESO wrote: »

If AP in PvP is made to reward CP's at a high rate (like the 25-40k I have sen being tossed around) I can guarantee you people will exploit it either by colluding with people in other factions, or by multibox killing themselves over and over.

Currently you get ~1000 AP for 100% kill credit, it would be too easy for a few people to just kill each other over and over and farm AP.

I think they should really bump up the amount of XP from taking keeps and resources, since it is much harder to exploit because it would require near server wide collusion and there are NPC's involved which adds a level of control for ZoS.

You get about ~800 AP for a 100% Kill Credit on a 100% AP capped player. The player will be worth 0 AP for a little after they spawn and will slowly climb back up to the maximum 800-1K worth.

It won't be a viable way to gain AP by killing the same players over and over.

Maybe my idea isn't the right idea, I would still like a huge buff to XP gained from keeps, player kills, and participating in Cyordiil.

Even if they gave everyone a fixed amount of CP per hour of participation (Participation can be determined on a number of things, AP gained, Kills, Defense, Offense, etc)

The point is, I don't want this to take a century and I don't want to have to farm in order to stay on track.

deleted221205-002626

You do earn decent cp in cyrodiil. I got almost 3 yesterday and 2 so far today only killing and doing the kill players quests. Dticks wont cut it tho im quite sure.

Cody

yodased wrote: »

I would suggest that you get xp for killing players equal to that of killing mobs in PvE. That way, you can grind out players instead of spellscar.

Grinders will have a way to grind that won't interfere with PvE, PvE will have the grinders out of their way, PvP will have a way to get champ points equal to PvE as well as have a lot more people to kill in PvP.

So about 200-400 XP as well as AP per player kill in PvP sounds about right to me.

Thoughts?

edit:

so thats 1,000 players killed in pvp for 1 champ point as well as the quests you get in cyrodiil

Sypher you kill 1,000 players in like an hour.

if only we were all like sypher.....

in all seriousness, that sounds like a good suggestion.

Lord_Bidr

Ghostbane wrote: »

400k AP per CP.

No way man, I average around 70k to 100k AP per day, and I can get 1 CP during this time presently. Setting it to 400k AP per CP would mean 4 days of hard playing to get 1 CP...that would be absurd. No thanks.

Teeba_Shei

michaelpatterson wrote: »

You do earn decent cp in cyrodiil. I got almost 3 yesterday and 2 so far today only killing and doing the kill players quests. Dticks wont cut it tho im quite sure.

How the hell did you get 3 in one day ? I'm getting around 20-30k exp per hour so I would have to play for 30-40 hours to get 3 points.

TheLaw

Not a bad idea! Still a little extreme, IMO.

Ghostbane

sc_prabhu1986rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Ghostbane wrote: »

400k AP per CP.

No way man, I average around 70k to 100k AP per day, and I can get 1 CP during this time presently. Setting it to 400k AP per CP would mean 4 days of hard playing to get 1 CP...that would be absurd. No thanks.

@sc_prabhu1986rwb17_ESO

I explained in other posts if you'd read them. Instead of CP via AP replacing CP via XP, have them both together. On each 400k AP gainage, this would attribute to a CP. With the current XP rate in cyro at the moment being exactly the same and working alongside this. This may bring a more stable gainage of CPs to PVP, and god forbid maybe give some sort of incentive for other people to come PVP.

Ofcourse grinding in PVE will always be faster, but this provides another option.

bsmorrowb14_ESO

I just got back in the game. Excited for 1.6 and 1.7... but being a pure pvper I'd just assumed champ points would be earned on par with pve.... now i has a sad :-(

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

Make it so I can buy and sell PVP XP boost boxes which give (cooldown on use of 20hrs kinda like a very long potion) with AP.

XP boost would grant 200x XP for PVP kills and quest hand in Only available for VR14 would last 2h

Valnas

they should up the xp on player kills = to AP. flat out. If your good game you should be worth it.

Vyle_Byte

You know, I'm not much of a PVP'er, have only tested the waters a couple times, however even as mainly a PVE'er I am kinda disgusted that the system is this jacked up between the two. You guys deserve to gain CP at the same rate PVE does. I just don't understand why something this logical didn't come across to them while they were making these changes to the game.

PVP has had 0 attention. I don't even pvp and it pisses me off. They say, play how you want. Scratch that, sorry we didn't really mean it. Then they say, we want you to be able to earn XP how you want, lots of viable options. Unless of course you PVP then you are screwed. Sorry, we don't care.

That's how it comes across to me. They just, simply don't care.

Joy_Division

ZoS:

There are already people at 78,79 Champion points by farming Skyreach. PLEASE hotfix PvP XP gain so we can compete against them!

PvP XP was already relatively low before you removed FCs when there was lots of action and thus opportunities to gain XP. PLEASE let us compete against grinders.

MissBizz

yodased wrote: »

I would suggest that you get xp for killing players equal to that of killing mobs in PvE. That way, you can grind out players instead of spellscar.

Grinders will have a way to grind that won't interfere with PvE, PvE will have the grinders out of their way, PvP will have a way to get champ points equal to PvE as well as have a lot more people to kill in PvP.

So about 200-400 XP as well as AP per player kill in PvP sounds about right to me.

Thoughts?

edit:

so thats 1,000 players killed in pvp for 1 champ point as well as the quests you get in cyrodiil

Sypher you kill 1,000 players in like an hour.

I actually really like this idea. Coming from a complete PvE player, yes, grinders get in our way. Well, they don't get in our way, but they do take away from our experience. You head to a "scary, violent" quest area.. and everything is dead. As well, I'm sure if grinders moved on the PvP, maybe this would help fill up more campaigns for you guys, so you're not all waiting for Thornblade? I really think this idea would make most people happy (no idea ever makes EVERYONE happy).

Although, I believe I've heard this a few times from ZOS "we don't want players trading kills", or something like that. I can understand. But really, grinders currently just kill the same mob over and over, why not kill the same player over and over? Even with that, I don't think would happen as wide spread as they think... at some point the guy being killed is going to want to be the one who's killing.

Everyone here who plays PvP should be able to earn CP at the same rate as me. (bad example, I'm slow... same rate as a medium paced grinder maybe).

Chrlynsch

Set on a day reset timer: start lower on the xp/VP scale then double for each skill point earned that day. first CP should take 30 min of play unenlightened. Second 1 hour. Third 2 hours. Fourth 4 hours. Fifth 8 hours. Hard core players can gain multiple per day, but casual won't have to grind their butts off to try and keep up.

Bipolo

Im having a hard time logging in right now.

Reason? I dont play ESO for PvE, i forced myself to do Undaunted Pledges for passives and the hopes of getting Blood Spawn (which i never got, until i opened Gold Chest logging in after 1.6, #BloodSpawnConspiracy)

Now i've lost my Nord mojo by imagining the time it will take to get any meaningful amount of CP in Cyro...

This grind looks endless from a PvP perspective and no one can convince me that CP points and passives are meaningless in PvP.

/QQoff

Chesimac

Joy_Division wrote: »

ZoS:

There are already people at 78,79 Champion points by farming Skyreach. PLEASE hotfix PvP XP gain so we can compete against them!

PvP XP was already relatively low before you removed FCs when there was lots of action and thus opportunities to gain XP. PLEASE let us compete against grinders.

holy ****, 70 cp at this point... damn

k2blader

Agree with the title. I think for time-dedicated (hardcore) play, 2 points for a full day (12+ hours?) would be reasonable.

Note: this wouldn't benefit me at all.

MissBizz

Chesimac wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

ZoS:

There are already people at 78,79 Champion points by farming Skyreach. PLEASE hotfix PvP XP gain so we can compete against them!

PvP XP was already relatively low before you removed FCs when there was lots of action and thus opportunities to gain XP. PLEASE let us compete against grinders.

holy ****, 70 cp at this point... damn

If that's how many people have in total... that's not ridiculous. You have to remember some people were given 70CP as soon as they logged in for past experience. If they have GAINED 70CP since 1.6.. THAT is ridiculous.

Chesimac

oh yeah I read that wrong lol

JaJaLuka

Sypher wrote: »

After playing PvP for close to 5 hours yesterday I realized that I will have to pass my ESO account down to my grandchildren if I even hope to reach the amount of champion points needed to feel "maxed" again.

The point I'm trying to make is, the rate is way too slow in PvP. (I don't know the rate in PvE, but I'm just judging this from a pvp player's perspective.)


I would be more than happy if you could gain CP through AP as an alternative to standard experience.

Would this encourage/reward AP farmers? Yes.. but it's very possible to compete with their AP rate even in a small group or running solo and at this rate, I don't even care I just want my own progression to not feel like an eternity.

My ideal rate would be 25K-50K AP/ Champion Point. As a solo player, this would allow me to gain anywhere from 1-10 champion points a day, assuming I pvp for 2-8 hours. Which is a REASONABLE rate.


I'm just throwing numbers/ideas around. But the main point is AP should grant Champion Points one way or another to help PvP players keep up with the PvE rates and not be forced to grind mobs for CP.

Thoughts?

I agree that the rate of CP progression in Cyrodiil is crazy bad, however I think they should just radically improve the CP exp in cyrodiil instead of AP converting into CP.

On a side note until this is sorted, when you get enlightenment you can go to Chorrol (just one place for quests, there are heaps more around) in Cyrodiil do the 3-4 quests there which in entirety takes about 15mins and walk away with a huge chunk out of a CP. They are super short quests which give about 20K CP per completion. All the quests come from the same npc behind the tavern, usually just a "run and fetch" quest.

I hate having to resort to PvE in Cyrodiil to progress (even though it's a waste of time for me because of bugs) but that's what it's taking apparently.

tinythinker

Sallington wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

The reason the XP needed for CPs is so absurdly high is so you will buy enlightenment pots in the cash store.

This is one of the things that just comes with a F2P/B2P game, and a BIG reason why a lot of us were so against the conversion.

Agreed completely. I suppose I will be contributing to the damn crown store for these because I'm not going to be happy enough PvPing until I get quite a bit of CPs ):

That's where I just quit. Once its either spend money or be behind, I'm out.

Except that something close to this already planned, announced, and partially implemented...

If you buy the Imperial edition and play with your "spouse", you get an XP boost.

If you sub after Tamriel Unlimited launches, you get an XP boost.

If you buy "enlightenment" potions or whatever they choose to name them in the Crown Shop after Tamriel Unlimited launches (these have already announced/confirmed), you get an XP boost.

And all of those bonuses stack.

So *if* these work when you are trying to advance in the Championship System it will be either pay extra cash and get championship points MUCH faster or don't and get them a lot slower. Some asked if the Rings of Mara work after you hit veteran ranks (which are due to be phased out anyway) and players seemed to mostly claim they did.

Unless these boosts are created/changed to not be applicable after you reach level of progression you need to be at, whether now or in the future (vet ranks or level 50), to earn CS points it is at least a partially buy to win system.

Asgari

I know a few who are passed 100 cp total already myself pushing into the 80s. Its so easy to get them in PvE land. Dont even consider earning them in PvP if you want to stay competitive.

wraith808

tinythinker wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

The reason the XP needed for CPs is so absurdly high is so you will buy enlightenment pots in the cash store.

This is one of the things that just comes with a F2P/B2P game, and a BIG reason why a lot of us were so against the conversion.

Agreed completely. I suppose I will be contributing to the damn crown store for these because I'm not going to be happy enough PvPing until I get quite a bit of CPs ):

That's where I just quit. Once its either spend money or be behind, I'm out.

Except that something close to this already planned, announced, and partially implemented...

If you buy the Imperial edition and play with your "spouse", you get an XP boost.

If you sub after Tamriel Unlimited launches, you get an XP boost.

If you buy "enlightenment" potions or whatever they choose to name them in the Crown Shop after Tamriel Unlimited launches (these have already announced/confirmed), you get an XP boost.

And all of those bonuses stack.

So *if* these work when you are trying to advance in the Championship System it will be either pay extra cash and get championship points MUCH faster or don't and get them a lot slower. Some asked if the Rings of Mara work after you hit veteran ranks (which are due to be phased out anyway) and players seemed to mostly claim they did.

Unless these boosts are created/changed to not be applicable after you reach level of progression you need to be at, whether now or in the future (vet ranks or level 50), to earn CS points it is at least a partially buy to win system.

That *still* doesn't help the underlying problem. With all of these boosts, PvE will still be a more viable form of advancement than PvP. And that's what this thread is about addressing.

Suru

Sypher wrote: »

Aimelin wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

After playing PvP for close to 5 hours yesterday I realized that I will have to pass my ESO account down to my grandchildren if I even hope to reach the amount of champion points needed to feel "maxed" again.

The point I'm trying to make is, the rate is way too slow in PvP. (I don't know the rate in PvE, but I'm just judging this from a pvp player's perspective.)


I would be more than happy if you could gain CP through AP as an alternative to standard experience.

Would this encourage/reward AP farmers? Yes.. but it's very possible to compete with their AP rate even in a small group or running solo and at this rate, I don't even care I just want my own progression to not feel like an eternity.

My ideal rate would be 25K-50K AP/ Champion Point. As a solo player, this would allow me to gain anywhere from 1-10 champion points a day, assuming I pvp for 2-8 hours. Which is a REASONABLE rate.


I'm just throwing numbers/ideas around. But the main point is AP should grant Champion Points one way or another to help PvP players keep up with the PvE rates and not be forced to grind mobs for CP.

Thoughts?

the lines in bold alone .... no, just no

the rate is fine, the 400k/point is fine, increasing xp in pvp abit i'll ask for / agree with, considering if you get a good amount of enlightened bonus, that would make what you're asking way too OP, few hours of questing alone today with enlightened bonus i got 4.5 CPs .... given that what, with the boost, its w/e xp you get * 4?
even from a pvp perspective you can gain a good amount of xp from a few hours of pvping, the people that no-life this game in pvp would jump ahead too far

again, the rates are fine, if people ever played DAoC that system was even worse than this one, and there were barely any quests in that game.

Me PvPing for a few hours has net me 100K XP.

You Questing for a few hours has net you 4.5 CP (1,800,00 XP)


.. I just want a rate close to PvE, whatever they have to do to get this rate, just do it. Whether it be through AP or whether they multiply the XP gains in pvp by 10. Get the rates to be close/reasonable.

Dont BS sypher, questing wont do that. Grinding does. Be real. Im at that rate soley due to grinding Not questing. When or if its fixed is up to ZoS. Exp in PvP needs a raise, not the cost per CP reduced so theres still work involved. In the end true skill > over perpercentiles at the end of the day.

tinythinker

Maybe this isn't the best option, but ZOS clearly has put in limits to how fast people can gain CS points such as limiting Enlightenment. I doubt most PvE grinders get much more than 5-6 points per day on average over the course of a week, so if they capped it at 6 or 7 per CS points per day for any source of gain you could make whatever option for PvP that seemed fair to mid- and lower-level players in terms of AP accumulation and the hardcore AP grinders wouldn't gain any unfair advantage over them. Both hardcore PvP and PvE players would be even.