AP should grant Champion Points. Hear me out.

Sypher

After playing PvP for close to 5 hours yesterday I realized that I will have to pass my ESO account down to my grandchildren if I even hope to reach the amount of champion points needed to feel "maxed" again.

The point I'm trying to make is, the rate is way too slow in PvP. (I don't know the rate in PvE, but I'm just judging this from a pvp player's perspective.)


I would be more than happy if you could gain CP through AP as an alternative to standard experience.

Would this encourage/reward AP farmers? Yes.. but it's very possible to compete with their AP rate even in a small group or running solo and at this rate, I don't even care I just want my own progression to not feel like an eternity.

My ideal rate would be 25K-50K AP/ Champion Point. As a solo player, this would allow me to gain anywhere from 1-10 champion points a day, assuming I pvp for 2-8 hours. Which is a REASONABLE rate.


I'm just throwing numbers/ideas around. But the main point is AP should grant Champion Points one way or another to help PvP players keep up with the PvE rates and not be forced to grind mobs for CP.

Thoughts?

Ezareth

1-10 Champion points a day would be absurd for a full day of playing I think. I doubt people in PvE are getting close to that.

I think for a full day of PvP getting 2-3 champion points is pretty reasonable.

I'd be happy to see an AP/CP conversion though.

Oughash

That CPs cost 400k XP per is absurd. Agreed completely that the rate of advancement is way too slow. Also agree that I have zero interest in grinding mobs.

If you are able to earn 2 CPs per day of playing, and you play every day of the year, it will take years to "max out" the Champion System. If you target 360 CPs as a reasonable CP break over point (to achieve 120 point passives), then you're looking at 145 days playing.

But here's the rub: at current XP rates while doing PvP, it will take many days to earn one CP. Even if CPs were awarded on a 1:1 basis for AP, you're looking at an enormous grind.

Sypher

Ezareth wrote: »

1-10 Champion points a day would be absurd for a full day of playing I think. I doubt people in PvE are getting close to that.

I think for a full day of PvP getting 2-3 champion points is pretty reasonable.

I'd be happy to see an AP/CP conversion though.

Well I don't PvE so I don't know their rates, but whatever rate that makes us equal to them will be satisfying for me. 2-3 a day sounds a whole lot better than 1 every few days I'll be averaging with the current rate.

10 does sound too much. 2-3 is probably way more reasonable.

yodased

I would suggest that you get xp for killing players equal to that of killing mobs in PvE. That way, you can grind out players instead of spellscar.

Grinders will have a way to grind that won't interfere with PvE, PvE will have the grinders out of their way, PvP will have a way to get champ points equal to PvE as well as have a lot more people to kill in PvP.

So about 200-400 XP as well as AP per player kill in PvP sounds about right to me.

Thoughts?

edit:

so thats 1,000 players killed in pvp for 1 champ point as well as the quests you get in cyrodiil

Sypher you kill 1,000 players in like an hour.

Darklord_Tiberius

Man, this is a really great idea. They need to do something cause those of us that really only play this game for PvP will be left in the dust compared to those doing PvE content. When it comes to Champion Point gains.

Perichor

yea the relationship between cyrodiil and CP needs some TLC quick

before PVE players can actually defend their buff campaigns with all the CP they have lol

Sypher

yodased wrote: »

so thats 1,000 players killed in pvp for 1 champ point as well as the quests you get in cyrodiil

Sypher you kill 1,000 players in like an hour.

I don't even get close to that man. It shouldn't be based off kills, because that would bypass diminishing returns on players who just spawned and died over and over.

It should be a set amount of AP/champion point. 50K AP seems reasonable to me.

yodased

so Princess Asagari who says he gets 30k AP per hour could grind out 3600 CP in 121 hours played. That would be at a conservative estimate of 5 hours played per day 24 days to ERMAHGAD power of every champion point in the system.

We really want people to have 3600 champion points in < 1 month?

Ghostbane

400k AP per CP.

DisgracefulMind

I completely agree with this!

I did the math and it comes down to a collective of something like 3.6 years to gain all the champion points of collective gametime...I just..can't even.

yodased

@400k AP per that would be a conservative estimate of 14 hours of playtime for the top dogs. That seems to be a bit much, I don't think it will take 14 hours to get to that level. edit [in pve]

I would say go about 250k AP per and that will bring it down to the Earthly level of only 8.3 hours of PVP @ 30k per hour.

Cause you know, according to those guys anyone can get 30k ap. per hour.

wraith808

Sypher wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

so thats 1,000 players killed in pvp for 1 champ point as well as the quests you get in cyrodiil

Sypher you kill 1,000 players in like an hour.

I don't even get close to that man. It shouldn't be based off kills, because that would bypass diminishing returns on players who just spawned and died over and over.

It should be a set amount of AP/champion point. 50K AP seems reasonable to me.

Well, in PvE content, we have a set rate. And we know what their expectations are for gaining that rate of XP. So it seems like it would be an easy conversion to get a similar rate in PvP.

With those limitations in mind, I endorse this idea.

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

I completely agree with this!

I did the math and it comes down to a collective of something like 3.6 years to gain all the champion points of collective gametime...I just..can't even.

They've already said the goal isn't to max out the tree, any more than it is in any other game that implements a sort of alternate experience. Just because there's a possible max doesn't mean that it should be attainable...

Ghostbane

yodased wrote: »

@400k AP per that would be a conservative estimate of 14 hours of playtime for the top dogs. That seems to be a bit much, I don't think it will take 14 hours to get to that level. edit [in pve]

I would say go about 250k AP per and that will bring it down to the Earthly level of only 8.3 hours of PVP @ 30k per hour.

Cause you know, according to those guys anyone can get 30k ap. per hour.

You have valid points.

The 400 figure is based against the XP equivalent, and makes 'conservative' sense against the 'top dogs' who could make 250k a day. The last campaign, the lead was near 10m. At the rate of 400k, that is 25 champion points per 30 day campaign. Although it would take 12 years to get maxed out purely on AP alone.

The reason for the high number is a guard, because with this AP proposal, we'd still be attributing to CP gainage via XP.

Whilst not everyone gets near 10m AP per 30 day campaign, it would be better to go for an average ( 250/300 ). But as it is an 'aside' gainage, I'd thought 400 would have been more suited.

Sallington

The reason the XP needed for CPs is so absurdly high is so you will buy enlightenment pots in the cash store.

This is one of the things that just comes with a F2P/B2P game, and a BIG reason why a lot of us were so against the conversion.

DisgracefulMind

Sallington wrote: »

The reason the XP needed for CPs is so absurdly high is so you will buy enlightenment pots in the cash store.

This is one of the things that just comes with a F2P/B2P game, and a BIG reason why a lot of us were so against the conversion.

Agreed completely. I suppose I will be contributing to the damn crown store for these because I'm not going to be happy enough PvPing until I get quite a bit of CPs ):

ShadoPanauin

Don't worry, you'll be able to buy champion points from the crowns store! Low low price of $1000 per champion point!

Sallington

ShadoPanauin wrote: »

Don't worry, you'll be able to buy champion points from the crowns store! Low low price of $1000 per champion point!

I am extremely confident they will be selling Champion Point bundles on the cash store within 6months of console launch.

100 champ points for $5
250 champ points for $10

I can almost guarantee it.

Sallington

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

The reason the XP needed for CPs is so absurdly high is so you will buy enlightenment pots in the cash store.

This is one of the things that just comes with a F2P/B2P game, and a BIG reason why a lot of us were so against the conversion.

Agreed completely. I suppose I will be contributing to the damn crown store for these because I'm not going to be happy enough PvPing until I get quite a bit of CPs ):

That's where I just quit. Once its either spend money or be behind, I'm out.

DisgracefulMind

Sallington wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

The reason the XP needed for CPs is so absurdly high is so you will buy enlightenment pots in the cash store.

This is one of the things that just comes with a F2P/B2P game, and a BIG reason why a lot of us were so against the conversion.

Agreed completely. I suppose I will be contributing to the damn crown store for these because I'm not going to be happy enough PvPing until I get quite a bit of CPs ):

That's where I just quit. Once its either spend money or be behind, I'm out.

Well..I'm going to be keeping my sub, so I guess I'll just use those crowns that I get from that. Can't really afford anymore than that. I'm just...disappointed that we're being bullied into this. ):

Huntler

You're barking up the wrong tree, I already suggested this in our ZOS meetings. They like it, just can't do it at this time.

DisgracefulMind

Huntler wrote: »

You're barking up the wrong tree, I already suggested this in our ZOS meetings. They like it, just can't do it at this time.

Of course they "can't do it."

Soulac

Ghostbane wrote: »

400k AP per CP.

Wow, so you won't even get 200 points from Alliance rank 1 to 50, seems fair.

Actually you can get a champion point per hour while grinding, why not the same in PvP?
I grind enemys, I should be rewarded the same.

Ezareth

yodased wrote: »

so Princess Asagari who says he gets 30k AP per hour could grind out 3600 CP in 121 hours played. That would be at a conservative estimate of 5 hours played per day 24 days to ERMAHGAD power of every champion point in the system.

We really want people to have 3600 champion points in < 1 month?

Try to take what any NM player says he makes with a grain of Salt. Hovaling once told me his group made 850K AP a day.

I think the system should be designed so that the "Crystalized" players in the game deserve to hit max CP in about a year, with the more regularly players getting it in 3 years or so.

We definitely don't want a large group of players running around with 3600 CP in 6 months.

DisgracefulMind

Seeing as at 400k/xp per CP, to get the max total of CPs you would need 1,440,000,000 XP to achieve max CPs, which evens out to around 1,440 Vet ranks.

Correct me if I'm wrong...

But that's a f*ckton of Vet levels. :P

Something needs to be adjusted imo.

Huntler

Ezareth wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

so Princess Asagari who says he gets 30k AP per hour could grind out 3600 CP in 121 hours played. That would be at a conservative estimate of 5 hours played per day 24 days to ERMAHGAD power of every champion point in the system.

We really want people to have 3600 champion points in < 1 month?

We definitely don't want a large group of players running around with 3600 CP in 6 months.

Challenge accepted!

gibous

It's a no-brainer that something has to be done here. I got way more xp from a skillpoint expedition than I did pvp'ing all night. I was mindlessly just killing mobs in the way of the skyshards, that's it, and that was more xp than playing against human beings.

Obviously there's always going to be the gear-chasers and grinders who derive much their entertainment just from those endeavors - but I'd hate to see lower-skilled and less-experienced players with tons of CP basically becoming NPC guards in terms of survivability, power, and lack of dynamic play.

I think some of the game's attempts to bring pvp'ers into pve, and vice versa, are OK. Such as pve'ers wanting the alliance skills, and pvp'ers wanting the undaunted sets. But reasonable CP gain shouldn't be silo'ed in pve.

Ghostbane

Soulac wrote: »

Ghostbane wrote: »

400k AP per CP.

Wow, so you won't even get 200 points from Alliance rank 1 to 50, seems fair.

Actually you can get a champion point per hour while grinding, why not the same in PvP?
I grind enemys, I should be rewarded the same.

The proposal is getting that *on-top* of XP/CP gainage in PVP.

Dru1076

Heard you out... But its not a good idea. Imagine someone coming to PVP for the first time and finding out everyone who's been pvping a little longer just wipes the floor with them? Its hard enough being a noob in pvp as it is. You will get your cp, guys. I don't think it should be to easy, though... And I don't think pve or pvp should give them noticeably faster.

Sypher

Dru1076 wrote: »

Heard you out... But its not a good idea. Imagine someone coming to PVP for the first time and finding out everyone who's been pvping a little longer just wipes the floor with them? Its hard enough being a noob in pvp as it is. You will get your cp, guys. I don't think it should be to easy, though... And I don't think pve or pvp should give them noticeably faster.

How about this.

I leave PvP for 1 month, and go farm Mobs for CP
Come back to PvP with a few hundred extra CP
????
Profit.


It's not different at all than just gaining CP in PvP at the same pace as PvE.

Ezareth

Huntler wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

so Princess Asagari who says he gets 30k AP per hour could grind out 3600 CP in 121 hours played. That would be at a conservative estimate of 5 hours played per day 24 days to ERMAHGAD power of every champion point in the system.

We really want people to have 3600 champion points in < 1 month?

We definitely don't want a large group of players running around with 3600 CP in 6 months.

Challenge accepted!

That is 11,111 Exp a minute, 12 hours a day....8 Million Exp a day for 6 months.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQYI7npxfQc