AP should grant Champion Points. Hear me out.

Dru1076

Sypher wrote: »

Dru1076 wrote: »

Heard you out... But its not a good idea. Imagine someone coming to PVP for the first time and finding out everyone who's been pvping a little longer just wipes the floor with them? Its hard enough being a noob in pvp as it is. You will get your cp, guys. I don't think it should be to easy, though... And I don't think pve or pvp should give them noticeably faster.

How about this.

I leave PvP for 1 month, and go farm Mobs for CP
Come back to PvP with a few hundred extra CP
????
Profit.


It's not different at all than just gaining CP in PvP at the same pace as PvE.

As I already said, I don't think there should be a noticeable difference between pvp and pve when it cones to obtaining cp. Thing is, it is simply far easier for some people to get AP than Exp. So the idea of making AP points count toward CP would skew things a lot in favour of PVPers. There must be a better way than this to even things out.

rendolpheb16_ESO

25k-50k AP is much less then the 400k exp grind wise.

1 CP should be around 100k ++ AP

Oughash

CPs should cost 25 to 50k XP. The thought of grinding for months, be it xp or ap sounds horrible. I want to focus on fights not on maximizing my xp gain so that I can maintain my power level compared to everyone else.

Also, for the love of god add new sets which we can spend ap on.

ToRelax

I don't know how much exp you gain in PvE now and I don't know about grinding/questing either (I hope it's not any more efficient now with the champion system even if that measnt no more alts for me ).

Currently you do gain exp when you get AP they just need to increase the exp gained.

DisgracefulMind

Ishammael wrote: »

CPs should cost 25 to 50k XP. The thought of grinding for months, be it xp or ap sounds horrible. I want to focus on fights not on maximizing my xp gain so that I can maintain my power level compared to everyone else.

Also, for the love of god add new sets which we can spend ap on.

It won't be months, it'll literally be years. The Champion System basically added 1,440 Vet ranks.

Valnas

i made 2 champ points doing about 3 hours of pve. Just wandering around clobbering everything in v8 zones. my entire day of pvp did not net a point yesterday night (4 hours?).

Really need to do something or we basically have to quit pvp.

DisgracefulMind

Valnas wrote: »

i made 2 champ points doing about 3 hours of pve. Just wandering around clobbering everything in v8 zones. my entire day of pvp did not net a point yesterday night (4 hours?).

Really need to do something or we basically have to quit pvp.

Yikes and you play in a group too. I would have thought you would have made at least one CP from 4 hours of PvP. That's sad news for solo and duo players like myself and most of my friends.

Aimelin

Sypher wrote: »

After playing PvP for close to 5 hours yesterday I realized that I will have to pass my ESO account down to my grandchildren if I even hope to reach the amount of champion points needed to feel "maxed" again.

The point I'm trying to make is, the rate is way too slow in PvP. (I don't know the rate in PvE, but I'm just judging this from a pvp player's perspective.)


I would be more than happy if you could gain CP through AP as an alternative to standard experience.

Would this encourage/reward AP farmers? Yes.. but it's very possible to compete with their AP rate even in a small group or running solo and at this rate, I don't even care I just want my own progression to not feel like an eternity.

My ideal rate would be 25K-50K AP/ Champion Point. As a solo player, this would allow me to gain anywhere from 1-10 champion points a day, assuming I pvp for 2-8 hours. Which is a REASONABLE rate.


I'm just throwing numbers/ideas around. But the main point is AP should grant Champion Points one way or another to help PvP players keep up with the PvE rates and not be forced to grind mobs for CP.

Thoughts?

the lines in bold alone .... no, just no

the rate is fine, the 400k/point is fine, increasing xp in pvp abit i'll ask for / agree with, considering if you get a good amount of enlightened bonus, that would make what you're asking way too OP, few hours of questing alone today with enlightened bonus i got 4.5 CPs .... given that what, with the boost, its w/e xp you get * 4?
even from a pvp perspective you can gain a good amount of xp from a few hours of pvping, the people that no-life this game in pvp would jump ahead too far

again, the rates are fine, if people ever played DAoC that system was even worse than this one, and there were barely any quests in that game.

Sypher

Aimelin wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

After playing PvP for close to 5 hours yesterday I realized that I will have to pass my ESO account down to my grandchildren if I even hope to reach the amount of champion points needed to feel "maxed" again.

The point I'm trying to make is, the rate is way too slow in PvP. (I don't know the rate in PvE, but I'm just judging this from a pvp player's perspective.)


I would be more than happy if you could gain CP through AP as an alternative to standard experience.

Would this encourage/reward AP farmers? Yes.. but it's very possible to compete with their AP rate even in a small group or running solo and at this rate, I don't even care I just want my own progression to not feel like an eternity.

My ideal rate would be 25K-50K AP/ Champion Point. As a solo player, this would allow me to gain anywhere from 1-10 champion points a day, assuming I pvp for 2-8 hours. Which is a REASONABLE rate.


I'm just throwing numbers/ideas around. But the main point is AP should grant Champion Points one way or another to help PvP players keep up with the PvE rates and not be forced to grind mobs for CP.

Thoughts?

the lines in bold alone .... no, just no

the rate is fine, the 400k/point is fine, increasing xp in pvp abit i'll ask for / agree with, considering if you get a good amount of enlightened bonus, that would make what you're asking way too OP, few hours of questing alone today with enlightened bonus i got 4.5 CPs .... given that what, with the boost, its w/e xp you get * 4?
even from a pvp perspective you can gain a good amount of xp from a few hours of pvping, the people that no-life this game in pvp would jump ahead too far

again, the rates are fine, if people ever played DAoC that system was even worse than this one, and there were barely any quests in that game.

Me PvPing for a few hours has net me 100K XP.

You Questing for a few hours has net you 4.5 CP (1,800,00 XP)


.. I just want a rate close to PvE, whatever they have to do to get this rate, just do it. Whether it be through AP or whether they multiply the XP gains in pvp by 10. Get the rates to be close/reasonable.

Panda244

Problem with this @Sypher is everyone gains AP at a different rate, those people that farm a 100k an hour will break the system, what they need to do is put a cap on the CP rate per day, 4-6 is reasonable, and then make it so no matter what you do, grinding, PvE, PvP, you can get that in a few hours of gameplay, the CP system was supposed to be a progression system, and currently, it's a slap in the face to PvP players and a very. VERY. large grind...

Either give me 400 CP so I can have my 1.5 strength back, or make it easier to get the damn things...

timidobserver

In those 5 hours how many champion points did you gain, if any?

Sypher

timidobserver wrote: »

In those 5 hours how many champion points did you gain, if any?

I gained one fourth of a champion point.

Panda244 wrote: »

Problem with this @Sypher is everyone gains AP at a different rate, those people that farm a 100k an hour will break the system, what they need to do is put a cap on the CP rate per day, 4-6 is reasonable, and then make it so no matter what you do, grinding, PvE, PvP, you can get that in a few hours of gameplay, the CP system was supposed to be a progression system, and currently, it's a slap in the face to PvP players and a very. VERY. large grind...

Either give me 400 CP so I can have my 1.5 strength back, or make it easier to get the damn things...

The rates differ greatly.. but they still need to do something about it. Someone needs to come up with something fair and reasonable, because right now I'm being forced to PvE if I want to get CP at a steady rate.

Perichor

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Seeing as at 400k/xp per CP, to get the max total of CPs you would need 1,440,000,000 XP to achieve max CPs, which evens out to around 1,440 Vet ranks.

Correct me if I'm wrong...

But that's a f*ckton of Vet levels. :P

Something needs to be adjusted imo.

personally im a fan of long term progression it was in DAoC its going to be in Camelot some other games in the past have done this and its just great

but im not PRO PVE XP > PVP XP its just straight up not fair

i mean PVPers have got the short end of the stick since the game came out but this will force PVPers to do PVE

i mean

IM DOING PVE FOR CP
that says alot considering
i HATE PVE WITH THE PASSION
i want to play against players not crocodiles

but if playing against crocodiles will make me more competitive against players... that is just ass backwards

Soulac

5 hours of PvP for 145000/400000
I didn't made that much AP cause damn lagblade and head on key board smashing Templars, but this is still not motivating.

I could just go PvE and get a champion point every 45-60 min, soon with 30% experience buff.
If I'd farm every single day the next 4 months I'd get have like 1k points, while doing PvP I'd have like 200.. Okay.

Nijjion

Zenimax seem quite oblivious to the times it takes to get XP in PvP vs PvE... they said on ESO live on Friday they aren't looking to change it.

Though they really have to with how it is at the moment.

I like the idea with AP but they might as well just buff the xp you get rather than trying to add another way to get champ points which could just complicate things when not needed.

Someone who has XP'd for the next month and gotten 150champ points vs someone just PvP'd who has got 30 seems a bit unfair to me.

Psilent

Ezareth wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

so Princess Asagari who says he gets 30k AP per hour could grind out 3600 CP in 121 hours played. That would be at a conservative estimate of 5 hours played per day 24 days to ERMAHGAD power of every champion point in the system.

We really want people to have 3600 champion points in < 1 month?

Try to take what any NM player says he makes with a grain of Salt. Hovaling once told me his group made 850K AP a day.

I think the system should be designed so that the "Crystalized" players in the game deserve to hit max CP in about a year, with the more regularly players getting it in 3 years or so.

We definitely don't want a large group of players running around with 3600 CP in 6 months.

I can see a good group getting 850K AP in a day on Thornblade or Chillrend these days. The other day on Chillrend I was making a bit over 50k AP an hour. You won't get that on Haderus, I found farming AP on my AD characters to be a pain because no one on AD side knows how to setup a good AP farm, like they do on EP or DC.

With the enlightened buff I was able to clear a whole town in Cyrodiil of daily quests and ended up a bit over 200k exp. So clearing 2 towns everyday will get me a champion point. Don't know if I want to do that everyday, but if I do, I"ll be extremely quick in doing those quests after a few days!

However, with the buff and doing normal PvP, I wasn't getting anywhere near the exp/hr.

Aimelin

Sypher wrote: »

Aimelin wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

After playing PvP for close to 5 hours yesterday I realized that I will have to pass my ESO account down to my grandchildren if I even hope to reach the amount of champion points needed to feel "maxed" again.

The point I'm trying to make is, the rate is way too slow in PvP. (I don't know the rate in PvE, but I'm just judging this from a pvp player's perspective.)


I would be more than happy if you could gain CP through AP as an alternative to standard experience.

Would this encourage/reward AP farmers? Yes.. but it's very possible to compete with their AP rate even in a small group or running solo and at this rate, I don't even care I just want my own progression to not feel like an eternity.

My ideal rate would be 25K-50K AP/ Champion Point. As a solo player, this would allow me to gain anywhere from 1-10 champion points a day, assuming I pvp for 2-8 hours. Which is a REASONABLE rate.


I'm just throwing numbers/ideas around. But the main point is AP should grant Champion Points one way or another to help PvP players keep up with the PvE rates and not be forced to grind mobs for CP.

Thoughts?

the lines in bold alone .... no, just no

the rate is fine, the 400k/point is fine, increasing xp in pvp abit i'll ask for / agree with, considering if you get a good amount of enlightened bonus, that would make what you're asking way too OP, few hours of questing alone today with enlightened bonus i got 4.5 CPs .... given that what, with the boost, its w/e xp you get * 4?
even from a pvp perspective you can gain a good amount of xp from a few hours of pvping, the people that no-life this game in pvp would jump ahead too far

again, the rates are fine, if people ever played DAoC that system was even worse than this one, and there were barely any quests in that game.

Me PvPing for a few hours has net me 100K XP.

You Questing for a few hours has net you 4.5 CP (1,800,00 XP)


.. I just want a rate close to PvE, whatever they have to do to get this rate, just do it. Whether it be through AP or whether they multiply the XP gains in pvp by 10. Get the rates to be close/reasonable.

questing with enlightened champ xp ... there's a difference

manny254

End game pve does not give that much. Enlightenment seems to be the only way they expect you to get a decent amount of points.

stabswithjello

How about this,

scale amount of XP/AP/CP off the alliance ranks, the higher rank you are the more you get when killed,

Let the head hunting begin

Aimelin

stabswithjello wrote: »

How about this,

scale amount of XP/AP/CP off the alliance ranks, the higher rank you are the more you get when killed,

Let the head hunting begin

how about everyone stop asking to "grind / cap" this system out in 3 weeks

just play the damn game, if people are jumping too far ahead they will make adjustments, if ppl come in late, they will make adjustments, always has been with systems like these

Ezareth

Psilent wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

so Princess Asagari who says he gets 30k AP per hour could grind out 3600 CP in 121 hours played. That would be at a conservative estimate of 5 hours played per day 24 days to ERMAHGAD power of every champion point in the system.

We really want people to have 3600 champion points in < 1 month?

Try to take what any NM player says he makes with a grain of Salt. Hovaling once told me his group made 850K AP a day.

I think the system should be designed so that the "Crystalized" players in the game deserve to hit max CP in about a year, with the more regularly players getting it in 3 years or so.

We definitely don't want a large group of players running around with 3600 CP in 6 months.

I can see a good group getting 850K AP in a day on Thornblade or Chillrend these days. The other day on Chillrend I was making a bit over 50k AP an hour. You won't get that on Haderus, I found farming AP on my AD characters to be a pain because no one on AD side knows how to setup a good AP farm, like they do on EP or DC.

With the enlightened buff I was able to clear a whole town in Cyrodiil of daily quests and ended up a bit over 200k exp. So clearing 2 towns everyday will get me a champion point. Don't know if I want to do that everyday, but if I do, I"ll be extremely quick in doing those quests after a few days!

However, with the buff and doing normal PvP, I wasn't getting anywhere near the exp/hr.

This was a month or two before I quit 4 months ago. I can't speak to what the AP grinding groups are making these days but I've had a few 450K AP days by playing the entire day and wiping group after group all day long. I still would never say "I make 450K AP a day" because I've had some exceptional days every so often.

Even though there are some people who have hit 100K AP in an hour, that doesn't mean they're averaging that for 8 hours or more either. I just don't see how that is possible.

I'd be amazed if someone had *ever* hit 850K AP in a day to be honest. If people could make that in a day there would be a hell of a lot more Grand Overlords.

Jahosefat

The way it is set up definitely encourages "kill farms" because d-ticks are not where the exp is. I got close to 400k xp in about 45 mins last night from an epically drawn out nickel defense. The xp gains I got roaming around pailed in comparison to the xp that came out of that meat grinder.

Rune_Relic

TIME bases in PVP is the only way to make PVP fair.
Some people earn massive AP some earn very little.
If you make is 1 Cp per 2 hours or similar upto a max of 4...that avoids the AP differential issues and gives PVP players a reasonable increase in CP.
Far better than 0CP anyway.

TheBucket

I don't know. Maybe it's just me, but why is everyone wanting to "race" to the finish line and max out CP points or find an easier way? Just to be better than everyone else?

The CP gain is the same for everyone else. Nobody has the advantage right now. Just enjoy it. Two Months from now when the grinders are maxed out and have left the game because of boredom. It wont be an issue for anyone else.

My two cents.

Rune_Relic

TheBucket wrote: »

I don't know. Maybe it's just me, but why is everyone wanting to "race" to the finish line and max out CP points or find an easier way? Just to be better than everyone else?

The CP gain is the same for everyone else. Nobody has the advantage right now. Just enjoy it. Two Months from now when the grinders are maxed out and have left the game because of boredom. It wont be an issue for anyone else.

My two cents.

I agree if we were talking about PVE....PVP relies on AP though and its not working as effectively as the PVE system is...apparently.

r.jan_emailb16_ESO

TheBucket wrote: »

I don't know. Maybe it's just me, but why is everyone wanting to "race" to the finish line and max out CP points or find an easier way? Just to be better than everyone else?

The CP gain is the same for everyone else. Nobody has the advantage right now. Just enjoy it. Two Months from now when the grinders are maxed out and have left the game because of boredom. It wont be an issue for anyone else.

My two cents.

This is not true. I can get a CP in PvE for a bit more than one hour of grinding, and this is a huge advantage in my eyes, especially with a system that is so powerful that you basically need a certain amount of points to be competitive.

krim

I know people in pve that are doing 13 a day casually grinding with no enlightenment.

Erondil

yodased wrote: »

so Princess Asagari who says he gets 30k AP per hour could grind out 3600 CP in 121 hours played. That would be at a conservative estimate of 5 hours played per day 24 days to ERMAHGAD power of every champion point in the system.

We really want people to have 3600 champion points in < 1 month?

One of us must get trouble withs maths... because 30k/h with 1 CP=25-50k seems for me like 1CP every hours. So 3600 hoirs to max it out. (One year 10h a day). Enlightment systement gives xp bonus for 3CP it seems. So if you play 10h/day its like 2 free CP. Seems far to 120hours...

Ezareth

Jahosefat wrote: »

The way it is set up definitely encourages "kill farms" because d-ticks are not where the exp is. I got close to 400k xp in about 45 mins last night from an epically drawn out nickel defense. The xp gains I got roaming around pailed in comparison to the xp that came out of that meat grinder.

krim wrote: »

I know people in pve that are doing 13 a day casually grinding with no enlightenment.

I think we have different definitions of "casual". There is nothing casual about grinding experience for more than 5 hours a day.

marfia

This is a critical gameplay issue and I agree that AP should give better experience conversion. Like other posters, I think the ratio proposed is too high and places too much emphasis on earning AP quickly -- which, as we all know, is not strictly a function of your skill, your effort, or your contribution to your faction.

Instead, I would propose that the experience earned in Cyrodiil should be a combination of rewards for active, productive, play:

• Keep guards - Challenging and strategic mobs, like transitus mages, OP archer guards, and flag guards, should reward more experience than weaker or isolated guards, such as resource guards. Remove penalties for grouping for strategic mobs.
• Alliance points
  Kills - Increase inspiration granted for player kills and scale it similarly to present alliance point gains. Harder opponent = more xp.
  Heals - Lower contribution threshold for receiving inspiration for healing
  Keep Captures - Increase keep capture ticks (suggestion: 10k xp - compare with completing a quest). If pvdoor is a concern, scale experience based on the number of dead.
  Keep Defenses - Because you ran on your horse for too damn long.
• Alliance rank - Reward alliance ranks. Higher rank = more experience.
• PVP achievements - (e.g. kill Nord players, Cyrodiil healer achievement). I'm on the fence about these, as I am with experience for other achievements. But consider expanding these achievements and offering experience.
• Sieging - Find a way to reward siege use, especially when it results in a successful defense or capture. One should not need to sacrifice their own character advancement when choosing between sieging and killing guards and moron defenders. A thoughtful implementation of siege damage tracking could compensate correct sieging without rewarding Player vs. Door.
• Currency - Allow players to spend their alliance points currency on experience. There is already a thriving market for AP - if someone prefers to pour their AP into their character's continuing education, let them.
• New bounty quest content - Yes, we're always clamoring for new content. But don't be afraid to keep it simple. This does not need to be flashy, complicated, or elegant. My favorite quest in ESO quest of all time? "Kill Enemy Players." Expand on this. Suggestions: Kill ten enemy players from ____ Alliance. High profile targets: killing blow on player rank __ or more. Capture any keep. Defend any keep. Capture any resource. Defend any resource. Kill a player solo. Kill 666 vampires.
• Scouting missions - These are stupid as implemented. If these stayed in game, just make them reward helpful scouting by having us run a lap around a keep or check resources presently.

Regardless of the implementation, something needs to change very quickly. Forget about hardcore XP grinding. Even inefficient, nonproductive gameplay outside of Cyrodiil nets better experience than dedicated PVP. If game developers are concerned about lowbies using Cyrodiil to bypass too much other content, then give more inspiration/champion xp than you are giving traditional XP. But please do something to make character advancement remotely fair.